Latest / Project Emerald Collective / Have You Outgrown Who You’re Supposed to Be? | Dr Rebecca Chabot

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Have You Outgrown Who You’re Supposed to Be? | Dr Rebecca Chabot · Project Emerald Collective

• rebecca: happiness is a choice and it's very much a practice. It's Eve: Mm-hmm. rebecca: and converse is also true. So when we practice negativity, when we practice complaining or moaning and groaning or getting together with the girls and everybody, bitching about their husbands or whatever, that becomes the norm, Eve: Welcome to the Project Emerald Collective. I'm your host, Eve McIntyre. Every week I sit down with women who have chosen to live differently. Designers, founders, creatives, psychologists, adventurers and change makers. People asking bigger questions about how we live, work, create and connect. These conversations aren't really about fashion. They're about living with intention. finding the courage to be yourself and discovering what becomes possible when you stop living by expectation and start living by choice. If that's the kind of life you're creating too, you're in the right place. Now let's go. Welcome to the Project Emerald Collective podcast. Today I'm joined by Dr. Rebecca Chabot, the founder of Pure Wellness Tasmania and the creator of the science of adapting. Rebecca's also a PhD ecologist who translates neuroscience into practical tools for leaders, their teams, and people navigating change. Across more than twenty-seven years she's taught mindfulness, breath work, and adaptive thinking in Australia and around the world. Most recently she took to the TEDx Hobart stage with her talk Strong Identity Loosely Held. Rebecca, welcome. rebecca: Thanks Eve. It's such a pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me. Eve: Let's dive in. I do need to disclose you're also my yoga teacher. and I love coming along to your classes. in class today, actually, you spoke about letting go of the masks that we wear and coming back to our true selves. So that to me felt very timely and like the perfect place to begin this conversation because so much of your work explores identity. adaptability and our capacity to change. rebecca: Well, it's a great place to start. And, I think that it's important to dive into the words because I think the words we use are important. And in a yoga class when I talk about shedding the masks that we wear and your true self. when I'm with clients they will ask me what does true self mean? Like what does that even mean anyway? And and I think that's a really relevant question because sometimes when we get stuck on what is true or not true we it actually creates more tension and stress. And Eve: Mm. rebecca: I want to start by just qualifying that what's true for me right now is just what's true for me right now and it doesn't necessarily have to be what was true before or what will be in the future because we're always changing and and so therein lies the kind of fundamental concept of the science of adapting which is that Life is always changing and we Eve: Mm. rebecca: are always changing. And so the issue with identity, while identity is incredibly important for us to understand ourselves, for us to recognize our our feelings, our stories, our beliefs, what we love, what we don't love. identity is incredibly important, but I think the danger is that we become too rigid in our identity. And when we do, when we kind of fixate on one identity, then we no longer acknowledge the the fact that life is changing and I'm changing. And so if I Eve: Mm-hmm. rebecca: attach to an identity and become very rigid within that then life is changing and I'm maintaining this form that maybe no longer applies. so when in a yoga class I talk about shedding the masks, in a corporate setting I talk about the same sort of thing, but I might use slightly different terminology. and like you said recently I did a TED talk and the theme was identity and the analogy that I used was that of a crab. so the crab grows in a really interesting way. It it's has this external skeleton that it forms around its soft tissues and that's called a carapace. And the carapace is hard and it provides structure for the crab and protection. and then the crab's soft tissue grows into that external sh shell, the carapace. until it can't grow anymore, until it's limiting it. And then it sheds it. It just gets rid of the whole thing, drops it, and becomes momentarily vulnerable. It hides under a rock. while it builds the next too big shell and then it grows into that one and then it sh drops it and then it grows another one and grows into that one. So again and again and again the crab is constantly shedding this shell as soon as it becomes limiting to its growth. And in my TED talk I used that analogy as our shell, our identity is our shell. So your identity Eve: Hm. rebecca: is strong and it protects you until you've reached the limit of it at which point it it needs to go so that you can continue to grow so that you can grow the next identity that you can grow into and and I think that's really relevant when we're talking about our truth when we're talking about shedding masks or being authentic because recognizing that it's a a moving target is is really important you know it make it it makes it more Eve: Yeah. Absolutely. rebecca: challenging as well but it's also Eve: Mm-hmm. rebecca: liberating in knowing that who I used to be isn't necessarily who I am now and who I am now is not necessarily who I'm going to be in the future. So I think that's a lot of the foundation of the science of adapting is that recognition that that we're constantly changing. Life around us is changing. one of Eve: Mm. rebecca: the examples that I use is I have three teenagers and I'm facing the the day when these guys are gonna leave home. actually one has now left and I still have two, but you know, what what's gonna happen on the day when they And and I've seen this with with friends and clients who, just end up in shambles when their kids leave because who am I now? I've always been Eve: Mm. Yeah. rebecca: the mom. Who am I now? And so that understanding that that that's going to happen in so many ways throughout our lives. So Eve: Mm-hmm. rebecca: if we can stay flexible and not attach too rigidly, doesn't mean I won't still be a mom, but but you know, obviously the situation's gonna change and if I can stay flexible, then I protect my nervous system from kind of collapse, so to speak, you know, or Eve: Mm-hmm. rebecca: or from that inability to to grow. or or overwhelm. Eve: it happens in nature, all the time the seasons change and there's no resistance. whereas we as humans attach our own meaning and, put up barriers t and hold on and fixate on protecting our identity and who we are to a point that it's detrimental. have you had a time like that that you can talk to us about and how you've moved through it? rebecca: Yes. Yes, well so when I was on my honeymoon, so I had just gotten married before I had kids, and there there was a a moment when my now ex-husband was angry with me. we were on the honeymoon, we had been out dancing and and he was angry and jealous and he looked at me and said, You're one of those half beautiful women who think she's beautiful. And if That moment I was just completely crushed, as anyone would be. but but what the problem was was that I then held on to that, those words as part of my identity for quite a long time, for years actually. I just became this half beautiful woman. I I shrank, I I I became more quiet, way less outspoken. and and so I think that one way that identities can Be shaped is through difficult experiences, maybe a trauma, capital T or lowercase T, you know, experiences, words that are harmful, that hurt, that kind of etch a memory into our our brains, and and then we we struggle to let it go. And I think that there's a reason for all of this, you know, and and we're all gonna. struggles and challenges and we can't really avoid that in life but Eve: Mm. rebecca: but at some stage we can become aware of how it's affecting us and and then make that conscious choice to move on to to shed the Eve: Yeah. rebecca: shell and that is what I eventually did, eventually I realized that that I I was kind of molding into this form that had been given to me, and that that wasn't really mine, it was actually just someone else's words and and so I shed that and and became really more who I am today. this isn't a poor me story. It's really just that we we probably all have those scenarios in our lives that we kind of carry around like baggage, that shape how we respond to the world, how we think, how we act. and and I think that one of the concepts that I illustrate in my course about the science of adapting I call adaptive self-awareness and that's the ability to recognize when change is needed and then Eve: Mm. rebecca: the courage to act on that recognition before you're forced to, you know, because Eve: Yeah. rebecca: because change is gonna happen whether we choose it or whether it chooses us, you know, whether I Eve: Mm-hmm. rebecca: mean and some some change is out of our control. but if we are self aware enough, then we're able to okay, I see that this thing is holding me back. I see that I've held on to this these words that someone have has defined me that's no longer fitting and then the courage to kind of let that go and move into your next version of yourself. So adaptive Eve: Mm. rebecca: self-awareness is that and I think we can we can use that in lots of aspects of our lives to start to fine tune how we live, both in terms of that kind of internal narrative, our our thoughts and our beliefs, but also in terms of our habits and the way that we care for ourselves and and show up in in the world. So adapt to self Eve: Yeah. rebecca: awareness is a really important little key that can give us the the agency to not only know that we need a change but then actually take action. Yeah. Eve: how do you get to that point where you become aware that, a thought or a belief is holding you back? rebecca: It's you know, I think so. First of all, I think it starts by just listening. I don't know about you, but the number of people that I talk to when you ask, How are you? They say, I'm so busy, you know. I mean, pe people are so busy that we we are in our society, that kind of glorified busyness. And and when we are that busy, there's so much external noise that it is hard to see what's really going on for yourself. Eve: Mm-hmm. Yeah. rebecca: so I think the first step of how to is to get still enough to listen and whether that is through yoga, like like you were saying you love to practice and so do I, through yoga or through practices that are contemplative, it could be for some people it might be going for a run or for others it might be sitting in a meditation or in prayer, so some form of of introspection so that you can start to recognize, first of all, where there's discord, so what's feeling just kind of not right, misaligned? What is that in me? And, where is it in my life? Maybe it's in a relationship or maybe it's in my work or maybe it's I'm just tired all the time or maybe I'm highly stressed. You know, so where where is the friction? Eve: Mm. rebecca: I think in order to to see it, to dive deeply enough to understand it, we first have to see it. And then and then we can start to delve in. Eve: I love that you touched on the busyness side of things because I feel like that's just become a default response. to some of us even I'm guilty, I was wearing that as a badge, like for so many years, like I'm so busy. And then I realized what I was saying and like what am I busy with? so it was a process of getting quiet with myself and really doing that introspective work. how does society condition us to be busy all the time? rebecca: I I think it's getting harder and harder to be honest. I feel like our society is kind of speeding up with all the devices that we have and are on all the time and everything's all about efficiency. how can I do more work in less time? normally, when someone does more work in less time, they don't then take the remaining time and go sit at the beach. They just do more in that remaining Eve: Yeah. rebecca: time. so we're becoming more efficient maybe perhaps with the use of AI or other sorts of tools like that. but then we just continue to fill the time and and I think we're losing the the ability or maybe we're engineering it out, the ability to just be bored, the ability Eve: Yeah. rebecca: to to actually just not have stuff to do. And and there's actually research on the importance of boredom and Eve: Mm. rebecca: and how it actually affects our ability to be self re referential. boredom gives your brain this it switches into this mode. That helps you kind of not only daydream but also be like refer back to the way that you behaved or the things Eve: Yeah. rebecca: that you thought and and and then improve on those things, and then make adjustments. And if you don't allow yourself any time to just daydream, mind wander, be bored, which is essentially what we're doing, you know, people on these devices, like. you're waiting for the boss and you're doing this, or you're at the supermarket standing in line and you're doing this. You know, I mean, it it seems like these days, I mean, this is and this is outside of work, much less in a in a work day from nine to five. No one's taking breaks or walking around or, talking with each other, or I mean, not no one, but it's becoming less common to do so. So I think the importance there is the recognition that our brain is not meant to be always on. It's just not. Eve: Mm. rebecca: And and so the repercussions of that is, ill health, mental and physical health. when the brain is is always on, then we don't sleep as well at night. We become overly hypervigilant and stressed. that kind of leads to chronic stress and chronic stress is that round the clock stress that never really subsides. That I have clients that, have been in this kind of state of chronic stress for over a year, meaning they even sleep in that state of stress, a lot of people can relate to this 'cause it's actually really incredibly common. Eve: Yeah. Mm-hmm. rebecca: when you are in that state Of chronic stress, your brain is significantly impaired. And Eve: Yeah. rebecca: and not just in terms of your cognition, but certainly in terms of your cognition. So your ability to think clearly, to problem solve, to make decisions under pressure, to remember things, then also Eve: Mm-hmm. rebecca: your emotional regulation. So So when you are under chronic stress, just day after day around the clock, you aren't able to regulate. So then you find that you're more reactive, you you have little bursts of anger or overwhelm or anxiety or you know sadness. And and so again, I'm not saying that any of these emotions is not okay. Of course, they're all okay, but it's just the inability to regulate when the brain is. Impacted, it's like under this, you're in a pressure cooker, what we need to do, and what the brain needs is recovery. So stress is Eve: Mm-hmm. rebecca: okay. There's nothing wrong with stress, stress is part of the natural world, even when you're looking in ecosystems, that aren't when we're not even talking about. Human systems, when we're talking about other systems, stress is is very much a part of of the natural world. But what has to happen in order for systems to survive and be able to adapt and persist is there has to be a recovery phase. and I think that's what we in our society are kind of missing at the moment is that Eve: Yeah. rebecca: that kind of ability to recover. we think that when we finished dinner and we sit and play on our phone or look at Netflix that we're recovering. But We're still stimulating the brain. So we're not giving Eve: Yeah. rebecca: it that chance to kind of come back down. so it's something to think about for all of us like how what what can we do to build in recovery? And in organizations that I work with, we call it recovery culture. So starting to build recovery culture into your organization so that your people function better so that your your outcomes improve and your people are healthier and happier. I mean that's that's a win for for everyone. So Yeah. Eve: Yeah, absolutely. I've heard one of your talks as well on the importance of brain health, which was fascinating. you mentioned that it's important to have, no devices at night. can you talk to us more about that? rebecca: Yes. along the lines of this idea of the need for recovery. I'm not a sleep expert, but there's so much incredible information on sleep, current information on sleep and what our brains need to kind of have that deep restorative sleep so that when we wake in the morning we have recovered. there are two parts to sleep. One is the quantity, that's one that we can all pretty easily assess for ourselves how many hours are you getting on average a night human adults need seven to eight so if you're getting six hours a night you're not getting enough and Eve: Yeah. rebecca: and there's absolutely so much science to to back that claim we need seven to eight hours so Quantity and then quality. So needing quality sleep means that we actually get all of the different phases of sleep. So we've Eve: Mm-hmm. rebecca: all heard of REM and so we need the quality sleep, and in order to get quality sleep, our brains need to come back down to a more restful state before we go to sleep. And what a lot of people are doing is taking their phones to bed and then Scrolling while they're lying in bed until they get sleepy and then putting the phone down and going to sleep. there's new research that's showing that this actually impacts your quality of sleep. So even if you get the seven or eight hours, it's not as good of a quality as you could get if you didn't do that. So most sleep experts recommend at least 30 minutes to an hour between Eve: Mm. rebecca: the last moment that you looked at your phone and when your head hits the pillow. So that's a good rule of thumb I'm writing a book and one of the parenting best bits of parenting advice that I got a long time ago from my sister who has kids older than mine. She said, Before your kids get phones, establish Eve: Mm-hmm. rebecca: the house rule that there are no phones in bedrooms, and that that was just like a little nugget of gold because once once they've got the phone and they now go to bed with it, it's hard to like extract it, But if you Eve: Yeah. rebecca: before they even get the phone, and so for anyone listening out there, if you have young kids who haven't yet gotten a phone, this is like really such important advice, before they Even get the phone, You start the habit of putting your phone in the kitchen or on in the living area to go to bed, and then you go to bed without it. So your kids see Eve: Mm-hmm. rebecca: you modeling that behavior, and then the day comes, here's their new phone. it's fine, it's part of the world we live in now. but when they go to bed, you do the same thing that mom and dad do. You put it on the charge, and then you off you go to your bedroom. and and that is such a valuable piece of advice because. I think for people who are used to going to bed with their phone I I've done workshops where I'll have between 50 and 100 people in the room Eve: Yeah. rebecca: and I'll ask who sleeps with their phone and pretty much every hand goes up and people really struggle to break that habit. Now of course we can it's just a matter of the will to do so but but if you can avoid the habit in the first place then that's great. so putting your phone to bed in another room before you go to bed is a great way to to build that space, that gap, the stimulation can start to ease before you actually fall into your sleep and then you have a better chance of of a good sleep. The the other bonus of that is that when you wake up, you don't have your phone right there. So it's also not the first thing that you look at, which is also really good for the brain. because Eve: Mm. rebecca: sleep is very much dictated by our circadian rhythm. and your circadian rhythm is that daily cycle. So from the minute you wake up, you are preparing yourself to be in a good place to go to bed that night. what you do throughout the day is actually actually relevant to the sleep that you get at night. that's just Eve: Yeah. rebecca: really fascinating and important for all of us to take on. so phone habits are important for sleep and then the other aspect is our nutrition. So what we eat, what Eve: Mm-hmm. rebecca: we drink, during the day and then in the lead up to bed. I found for me personally that alcohol significantly impacts my quality of sleep. I might still get Eve: Mm-hmm. rebecca: the the quantity. I might still, you know, if I've had a glass of wine or two, I I might still get eight hours of sleep, but the quality is significantly reduced. there's a lot of research that that that confirms that alcohol impacts your sleep. not to say don't ever have alcohol, but Just know the impact on your brain, that it is a very Eve: Mm-hmm. rebecca: real impact. And if you have an important meeting the next day, then make your decision wisely, So, you Eve: Yeah. rebecca: I think that's the that's the whole idea of adapting is the recognition that, I'm fluid, I'm changing. I look at my my week ahead and I know when I've got really, huge deadline or really important meeting, or I'm gonna be on a podcast talking. in front of listeners and I want to be on my game. then you start to think about the habits leading into that important moment so that you are your best self. So your brain is operating at its peak in those in those instances. And then, give yourself time to relax and just let off steam as well. So, there's always that as well. But it's just being aware so that you can adjust and change according to what you need on that day. Eve: Yeah, absolutely. It's so true. you feel better as well. Like you feel rebecca: Yeah. Eve: a hundred times better when you've had a great sleep. rebecca: Sleep is just incredibly important for the functioning of the brain, the following day. And Eve: Yeah. rebecca: it is one that I think it's almost the simplest thing that everyone like starting today can target, it's like something we all have in common. We're as It's free. You don't need to go buy any, you know, packages or you don't need a degree. you can target it right here, right now, tonight. You can make sure that you get some practice some good sleep hygiene, so to speak, so that you get Eve: Yeah. rebecca: the best night's sleep possible. but yeah, I do work with a lot of people who struggle to sleep and if that's any of your listeners, I'm happy to to take questions or, help. Eve: Yeah, amazing. I certainly went through many years where that was an issue. but I became rebecca: Yeah. Eve: aware of it and it's improved a lot for me and it's made a massive difference in my life. I just feel like a different person. So rebecca: Yeah, yeah. So true. And actually can I just say one more thing about that? Eve: Yeah. rebecca: because of the age that I am now Here, I'm talking with a lot of women about menopause, perimenopause, and sleep comes into that conversation as well. often my my advice is that okay, so while hormone like changes in hormones can affect your sleep, there are still things that we can do to, so there's some stuff that's out of our control. Perhaps your hormonal fluctuations are out of your control, but there are things that You can control, so I guess my point is don't just throw your hands up and go, I just can't sleep, there's nothing I can do about it. Because as we've just discussed for the last 10 minutes, there are things that you can control. So that's not to say that you'll always sleep really well throughout your life. There might be stages where we don't Eve: Mm. rebecca: sleep as well because of what's going on in our lives. Another time is when you've got babies, I didn't sleep very well for a few years there. when I had my babies and that that's okay. So the the point is that there are things that we can control to maximize the sleep that we do get to Eve: Yeah. rebecca: improve that quality, just know that life's changing and we're gonna keep changing with it. So we adapt. Eve: Yeah, that's right, you've described happiness as a practice rather than a mood, which I love. can you really choose happiness? rebecca: Yes. I love this. I love this conversation around happiness because I do have to give the disclaimer that when I talk about happiness it's not a a toxic positivity type of thing. I'm not saying just be happy, just ignore all the bad stuff going on and put on a happy face. in trying to avoid toxic positivity, we've actually culturally swung the other way, in a way. so when I approach the topic of happiness, often people cringe, they they go, Well, what we're gonna talk about happiness Eve: Yeah. rebecca: and fighting against that because we need to be talking about happiness because yes, it's absolutely a choice, regardless of what's going on in my life at any given time. there are things that I can do that will boost my levels of happiness biologically and therefore emotionally. so happiness is a choice and it's very much a practice. It's something Eve: Mm-hmm. rebecca: that we can become conscious of and practice it because whatever we practice becomes a habit, right? and Eve: Yeah. rebecca: converse is also true. So when we practice negativity, when we practice complaining or moaning and groaning or getting together with the girls and everybody, bitching about their husbands or whatever, when when we practice that, Eve: Hmm, yes. rebecca: that becomes the norm, and so I think that we we have that choice of what we're going to think on a given Eve: Mm-hmm. rebecca: day, of what we're going to believe, of what we're gonna talk about, of how we're gonna behave. And and so I have kind of a little list of of happiness practices that when that I teach and that I encourage people to to work on one of them is gratitude gratitude is an incredible practice of happiness that is is so powerful and there's a lot of science very specific neuroscience Around the linkages between gratitude practice and happiness. And again, gratitude practices that kind of every day coming up with something that you're grateful for. It's not just a general feeling of being grateful because that's wonderful, Eve: Mm. rebecca: but that's not really the practice. challenge yourself to come up with something daily that you're grateful for. And when we do that, we start to kind of form new. connections in the brain that are then looking for things to be grateful for. And so we start to see stuff that was always there but we weren't seeing it before you start to notice things that you wouldn't have noticed otherwise. But then remembering it as well, which is you know that part of the brain that is there to kind of recall. So when you're practicing gratitude regularly, and I do recommend daily, Eve: Mm-hmm. rebecca: when you're practicing daily, then in the day that you're practicing, you notice several things, and you think, when I do my gratitude later, I'll remember that because that was really nice, and then you file it away Eve: Right. rebecca: in your brain. And then later you're like, what was that thing? yeah. And you remember it, you know. And so it's as simple as that. The Eve: Mm-hmm. rebecca: brain starting to kind of restructure and reshape. And and our brains are doing this all the time regardless. but if we can direct it to to remember and shape around the things that we want it to see and remember, then we're kind of driving our own. Results, right? So Eve: Yeah. rebecca: so gratitude is just one way of doing that, and there's research that shows that people who practice regular gratitude are significantly happier than people who don't. so Eve: Yeah. rebecca: it's not a fake it till you make it type of thing, it's actually reforming parts of the brain to to see the good stuff that's happening. Doesn't mean we don't see the bad stuff, we still see that too, but you know, but Eve: Yes. rebecca: to see and remember and focus on. of the good stuff is really a a really positive practice. Eve: I guess it's just bringing that awareness to again touching on the power of your thoughts and your words. So bringing that awareness to what you're choosing your thoughts to be, and what you're choosing to speak. And that plays out in your life. So if you're bringing awareness to what things are happening around you that you're grateful for, that's naturally going to increase. the occurrences of those things, but also many others that you then become aware of being grateful for. So it actually feeds itself is what I've experienced. rebecca: Yes. Yes. Have you practiced gratitude practices in the past or What what's your kind of form? I mean, 'cause there's lots of ways to do it, you know. Eve: Yeah, well I love talking about it with our kids actually. So, we'll talk about it at the dinner table, what was the best part of your day? what are you grateful for today? it's part of our normal conversations at dinner time. or on the way to school as well. I find that's you know a good moment to use that time together. rebecca: Yes. That's Eve: So I love that, but I rebecca: right. Eve: also do journal every night really before bed. So I'm always trying to be conscious rebecca: Brilliant. Yeah. Eve: then about the good bits of the day. rebecca: Yeah, yeah, that's so good. That's so good. Journaling is a really great, powerful way to do it. And another one that I have had experience in the past that was so good. I'm not doing it currently, but I my mom lives in America and you know it's it's a long way away and our lives in some ways are so separate. But and because of the time difference it can be Eve: Yeah. rebecca: hard to talk on the phone. so for about a year we did a gratitude practice together where we each thought of three things that we were grateful for every day and we texted it to each other. so doing that with someone, I mean they don't ha have to be on the other side of the world, it could be your partner or your kids or like you're doing. but it just is that accountability, because sometimes she would remember and I would forget and sometimes I would remember and she'd forget and you know and and then you're also connecting with that person Eve: Mm-hmm. rebecca: and would get a little insight into what her day was like, what she did that day and you know If she was grateful for tennis, I knew she played tennis that day, it's just a lovely way to connect and also to boost those those happiness levels. a second important factor for happiness is social connection. and Eve: Mm-hmm. rebecca: I think probably all of your listeners have heard this before, but social connection has been quantified and as the number one predictor of longevity in humans Eve: Mm-hmm. rebecca: is the strength of your social connections and one of the greatest predictors of happiness. So we need other humans in in our lives, and that kind of feeling of isolation is is really not very good for our mental health. And social connectivity whether it's with your mom or your kids or your partner or whether it's just with an absolute stranger walking down the street, you know, that pass by, is really good for us in terms of our mental health and our feelings of happiness. So I just love that. I it's so basic, but this is something that we can practice. if I'm having a hard day and I'm really just annoying With the world and and I go for a walk and I walk past someone, I have the choice. I can either ignore them Eve: Mm. rebecca: and just be on my headphones and look at my phone and not pay attention, or I can say, you know, good afternoon, how are you today? And you know, just have like a quick little and there's lots of research that shows that when we make that that connection, even brief, with another human, we feel better and they feel better. we've got that choice. and I'm not gonna make that choice every single time 'cause sometimes I am in my own little little world. little bubble but Eve: Let's see. rebecca: but it's just another thing to know that if we practice those social connections, if we really lean into them, then we can help ourselves feel better and and happier in that moment. So yeah, I think that's another good one to remember. Eve: Yeah, absolutely. how important is feeling good? Like allowing ourselves to feel good? rebecca: yeah. Well look, a lot of my passion is around feeling good is around Eve: Mm. rebecca: practicing happiness, taking care of my body, my sleep so that I feel good and sharp and clear. but when you first asked the question I kind of thought that's interesting because feeling bad is also necessary, we have to have both and while Feeling good is something that I'm interested in cultivating, positivity and happiness and joy and clarity and peak performance and great outcomes. I also recognize that there is that that balance and I think if we don't allow ourselves to feel bad. Then that can become a problem too. to me it's it's it's about the awareness of all the the feelings. And because I've practiced in the form of yoga and meditation mindfulness for so many years, 30 or more years now. I've been saying 30 years for kind of a long time now, so I guess it's probably Eve: Yeah. rebecca: more. I've been practicing these things for so long that and these are these kind of contemplative practices that Help us become aware of what we're feeling at any given moment. I'm quite aware when I feel grief, for example, or when I feel sadness or anxiety or fear. I'm quite aware and I still have work to do. I'm not saying my work's done, but but because I'm aware of it, I think that gives me the the space to really let it be there. Eve: Mm-hmm. rebecca: but then I'm also aware. Of letting it move on, So I think the the way that we humans get stuck in that feeling is, and I might be wrong, but I I think that the way we get stuck in that feeling is when we don't allow it to move on because we're not aware. it's like the crab in the shell, the crab Eve: Mm. rebecca: has now gotten to the end limit of the shell. It needs to grow more, but if it held on to its shell and didn't shed it, then it would. would just die inside a shell that it had outgrown. Eve: Mm. rebecca: And similarly, if we didn't shed those shells, those if we didn't allow the emotions to pass on through, then we can't grow and and we get stuck and and that that stuck feeling is not healthy for us. It's not good for us. Eve: No. rebecca: And so there are lots of ways that we can release the stuckness and yoga is a good one. Yoga's one way, that somatic practice of of body movement that can help Eve: Mm-hmm. rebecca: Us to get rid of some of the the stuck emotions. But there are lots of other ways too, so yeah. Eve: Yeah, what are the some of the other ways? Dance. rebecca: Yeah, I think there so in terms of body there's lots of physical ways that's that somatic practice. So, massage is another very physical way. anything like any kind of physical exercise, swinning swimming, running, sports, dance, can help us process emotion. and then, you know, arts like so not so physical but more kind of creative practices can help. help us process things. So people who are creative in whatever form, musicians or or music, even just listening to music can help us process. being in nature, going out and being out in the the natural world can give us those the chance to start to process difficult emotions. And then there's meditation and meditation is probably my number one tool that helps me process things and I think even perhaps as powerful if not more powerful than yoga for me because it is that stillness. It's actually for me meditation is sitting in stillness with eyes closed. And I often then will have someone say, but isn't there walking meditation? technically there are now walking meditations, but for me meditation is sitting in stillness because it's such a contrast to Eve: Yeah. rebecca: what we do in our everyday lives, the stillness is actually so critical and powerful when we allow ourselves to sit in stillness without going to sleep obviously so so that kind of practice of actually addressing like looking at your emotions looking at your thoughts looking at what's triggering you what's challenging you and processing it in a systematic way I think is really powerful so but you Eve: Yeah. rebecca: know it and I think everybody can meditate but not everybody does, there's lots of different ways to get to to that processing, Eve: it takes courage though to be able to process, to give yourself the time to be still and then to actually make the change that you then recognize. So do you work rebecca: Yeah, yeah, it sure does. Eve: with clients to move on that courage piece as well? rebecca: the fear is the opposite of courage, isn't it? The fear of of being vulnerable, the fear of of of a change that's the unknown. and that that feeling of fear is where we're lacking the courage and and when I work with clients the the place where I start to overcome the fear and to build the courage is through regulation of the nervous system. So as we have spoken already about that kind of overload of stimulus, the the overwhelm that we feel, the the chronic stress. And when we can regulate the nervous system through recovery, like conscious systematic recovery practices, then we are we we might still feel the fear, but it's no longer kind of driving the outcomes or running the show. So Eve: Mm. rebecca: we can feel the fear and then we see it, we acknowledge it, but we pick the courage, Eve: Yeah. rebecca: it doesn't mean we like eradicate fear, of course not, but but we can see it for what it is as and then and become aware of it and then lean into the courage and choose it. it's a lot more challenging to do that when we're up here in terms of our nervous system. So which again Eve: Mm-hmm. rebecca: is where many of my clients are, they tend to be in a place of kind of overwhelm, high anxiety, high stress, Eve: Mm-hmm. rebecca: on the road to burnout type of thing. So when we are in that place, then it does feel like that courage to make a change feels like a long way off because your brain is in survival mode. So like Eve: Yeah. rebecca: if if you're in survival mode and someone says, No just have some courage and you're like, What? it's actually really hard to go there. It's just not, it's not practical biologically. And I think that's important for us to recognize that we are animals and we have these a a nervous system that behaves in a very explainable systematic way. Eve: Yeah. rebecca: And and if we can understand a little bit about our biology, and I think this is where the science of adapting really comes to its strength, is if we can understand about our own biology as humans, then we can kind of come in through the back door, So for example, say you're dysregulated, your nervous system is, you know, really heightened and you're about to go into a board meeting, high stakes, you know, lots of conversations. Conflict, there's lots on the table, and you're about to be under this under pressure, what can you do? Well, one tool that I use and I teach clients is the breath. And again, sounds so simple, but it is a direct link to your nervous system. if you can learn techniques that you can use in the moment, right then and there before you walk into that boardroom to help calm and settle your nervous system, then when you're in the meeting and someone argues with you or Eve: Mm-hmm. rebecca: whatever may happen, you don't explode. you're still able to remain calm and clear and move forward in a in a way that is that is ideal and more productive and more efficient and gets better outcomes. And that's really what we all want in in our working life and also in our home lives that we want to perform at our best at our peak, but Eve: Yeah. rebecca: we want to be able to do it in a sustainable way. And for Eve: Mm-hmm. rebecca: that kind of performance, that high level of performance to be sustainable, we have to have a regulated nervous system. So so tools and practices that we can use that help us to consistently become more regulated are the types of things that I do when I work with with corporate clients, whether it's as an organization team or as an executive individual. So yeah. Eve: Yeah, fascinating. So I'd love to know where did you grow up and how did you get to Tasmania? rebecca: I'm from Mississippi originally and I grew up there till I was eighteen and then I moved to I moved around a lot to different degrees. So I went and did a a degree in biochemistry in Memphis, Tennessee at Rhodes College and then I moved across the country to Seattle, Washington. I l I lived there for several years and worked in a hospital. from that time I started a a masters program that then took me kind of around the world but eventually landed in California where I completed my masters at a university there with an incredible coral coral reef ecologist and biologist. then from there I was deciding where where I was going to do a PhD. I knew I wanted to continue studying because I'm a professional student really. I think I always will be. But and and decided at that time to apply to the University of Tasmania to follow a an a a professor that was that is here in Tasmania who is really well known globally. And for listeners who don't know in science that's often how it works is that that when you are when you're following when you're choosing a to do a graduate degree in science usually you follow the professor rather than Eve: Okay. rebecca: choose the university. That's usually the way it goes. So the research that you're interested in and then you just see where the professor is that you wanna work with. And you know, Eve: Mm-hmm. rebecca: it might be in Michigan or it might be in London or it might be in Tasmania, you know, so it's you just kind Eve: Yeah, okay. rebecca: of go wherever is at least that's the way the the way that it was when I was in back then and so I came to Tasmania to do research with this amazing professor here very kind of big picture thinking it was in ecology and and also I had a a supervisor that was in mathematics as well so I did a lot of kind of Quantitative ecology and mathematical modeling. and that was in 2001. So I've been here since then. I've been in Tasmania for 25 years this year, which is just hard to believe, but but Eve: Wow. rebecca: it's a great place to be based. I still go back to America every year. my family is all still over there, with the exception of my kids. But I love America. I still have a lot of connection over there and and the you know privilege of being able to go back and forth each year. So yeah, I feel very lucky. Eve: Yeah, absolutely. It's always fascinating to hear about, the moments that have shaped your shaped each woman that woman that I interview and how they've rebecca: Yeah. Eve: come to where they are today. rebecca: Yes, absolutely. Eve: I think that's really inspiring rebecca: Yeah. Eve: for people to understand. So have you had to unlearn anything to become the woman that you are now? rebecca: to unlearn. Yes and no. In in some ways I'm constantly unlearning, I'm learning and relearning and unlearning. I think the the words that I mentioned earlier that, you know, kind of I allowed to define me for some time, that experience of shrinking and trying to fit in someone else's box that they created for Eve: Hmm. rebecca: me or that they put around me, I think that experience really taught me a lot. about who I am and who I want to be. I think, I've dabbled in a lot of different arenas. I've been in academia. I spent a lot of years in high pressure, high level academia, in science as a scientist. all of that I feel has kind of built the the woman that I am now. So Eve: Yeah. rebecca: so in some ways I don't even feel like I've unlearned it. I feel like I've just assimilated it and it has all led me to this moment right now and And I had a conversation with my son not that long ago and he said, What's your biggest regret, Mom? He's 17, so cute. And he said, What's your biggest regret? And I said, I don't have any regrets. And he said, What? You don't have any you don't regret anything. And I said, No, I really don't. And he said, So you've done everything perfectly. And I said, No, that's not what I'm saying. You know, I just don't have any regrets. So I mean, I've made, you know, colossal mistakes. I've I've made plenty of mistakes. I've I've had plenty of failures. and lots of hard times, but I don't regret any of them. And I think that's the clarification, is that Eve: Mm. rebecca: I believe that from all of those challenges I have grown. Is for me that is adapting. That is the science of adapting. And the only time that we're not adapting from our mistakes is when we don't address them, look at them, and then process them. You know, if we just hold on to it but never really process it, then we Eve: Yeah. rebecca: aren't able to adapt. But if we if we process it, then it becomes part of the the foundation that we are built on, you know, it becomes a launch pad. to to the next great thing. I think I'm just constantly learning. I'll always be learning and and that's Eve: Mm. rebecca: really the joy for me of life. Sounds kinda cheesy, but Eve: Yeah, I love that. and what happens to our brains when we repeatedly tell ourselves, this is just who I am? rebecca: yes, well that Eve: Like to go the opposite way. rebecca: yeah, well that is the stagnation, isn't it? You know, and that I I think we been able to touch on mindset yet in this podcast, but your mindset is basically what your set of beliefs that the the thoughts that you believe to be true. And and our mindsets can limit us or help us enable us to grow. And often I hear people say, well I am who I am or it is what it is and and that really is just exactly that. It is a fixed mindset where your your you you're not acknowledging the fact that change and growth can happen. You you believe that you are limited or fixed in time and it's the same thing as having a rigid identity. It's you you feel held or stifled by your own limitations, by your own beliefs. growth mindset on the other hand is where we believe that we can continue to grow and change and learn and and that's definitely where we want to be living because that's the the people who have a growth mindset in the different aspects of life are the ones that are happy and thriving. So Eve: Yeah. So in closing today, Rebecca, if someone is listening and re and she realizes that she spent years performing a version of herself, meeting expectations, wearing masks, and living according to identities that she may have outgrown, how does she begin coming back to herself? Is it through breath and mindfulness? Is that where you'd recommend that you start? rebecca: Yeah. even even simpler than that is that adaptive self-awareness. It's just that it starts with the awareness and how do we how do we get there? I think it's just to get still and listen. And so that can be through specific practices of mindfulness but it can also just be through just physically getting still and letting go of the busy for just a moment and checking in with yourself and it's amazing what happens to us in those moments of r of self-reflection. we can just gain so much clarity. Eve: Absolutely. And one question that I just ask all of our guests is what does taking your power back mean to you? rebecca: Taking your power back I guess means being as clear as you can be about what is important to you right now. And and I I say it like that because I think that again it's so important to recognize that we are constantly changing. So that me i if I recognize that I'm constantly changing, then I need to be checking in regularly to update the system so to speak so that I am so that it's relevant and true. currently. And Eve: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. rebecca: and to me that is where the real power, I guess, power, lies in each of us as individuals. So yeah. Eve: Yeah, I love that. And giving yourself the grace and the space to shed that shell. grow with a rebecca: Yeah. Eve: new shell. rebecca: Yeah. Yeah. Eve: if you could leave women with one question to help them recognize where they might be wearing a mask or holding on to an identity a bit too tightly, what would you ask them? rebecca: I would ask, where in your life do you feel that discord? Where do you feel misaligned or stuck? I think that at any given time we will all have somewhere that we just notice there's there's something that's not quite sitting right if we get still long enough to listen and and and so where in your life are you feeling that discord? And and then once you recognize that it's there. What are some some little steps that you can start to take to to shift around that, to make small changes in your everyday, in your habits that might shift that place of feeling stuck? I think that's the that really is the the ultimate to to take take that on, to listen to yourself and to try and make small shifts and then get help when you need help. Eve: Mm-hmm. rebecca: be willing to ask for help. Eve: Mm, absolutely. I've loved our conversation today. Thank you so much. rebecca: Me too. It's been great, Eve. Thank you. Thanks for what you're doing. So so empowering. Eve: Before we finish I'd love to leave you with one question. When did you last feel like most like yourself? Not the version shaped by expectations, deadlines, or everyone else's opinions, but the real you. Maybe that's something worth sitting with this week. If today's conversation has resonated with you, please consider subscribing, leaving a review, or sharing the episode with someone who may need to hear it. Every share helps us reach more people and grow a community that's choosing to live with greater intention. Until next time, remember, take your power back, one conscious choice at a time. I'll see you in the next episode.