Latest / Adult Child of Dysfunction / E 367: Inner Child Healing with Megan DeMatteo

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E 367: Inner Child Healing with Megan DeMatteo · Adult Child of Dysfunction

• 0:07
  hello, everybody.
• 0:07
  Welcome back to another episode of Adult Child of Dysfunction.
• 0:10
  Today, we have with us a very special friend, Megan Dimattio.
• 0:14
  She's a professional service journalist, a Yahoo Travel creator, and an editor whose work has appeared in major outlets and international publications.
• 0:23
  She holds a master's degree in creative writing from Lenoir-Rhyne Lenoir-Rhyne University- Yep as well as a graduate arts certificate in narrative healthcare.
• 0:31
  Her creative writing journey began with the personal diaries and mindfulness practices that helped her confront emotional truths she had long denied about how her identity as an adult child of an alcoholic shaped her life and behaviors.
• 0:45
  Through writing, she learned to gather, reassemble, and finally love the fractured pieces of her story, insight that now helps her understand the emotional and psychological challenges faced by people with similar backgrounds.
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  She makes her home in the Mid-Atlantic between Baltimore and New York City.
• 1:02
  Welcome, Megan.
• 1:04
  Thank you so much for having me, Tammy.
• 1:05
  It's really wonderful to be here.
• 1:08
  And it's so great to hear you to Lenore Rines' w- Narrative Healthcare program, or at, when I was taking the program, it was called Narrative Medicine, because you just had somebody on here actually talking about, their narrative approach
• 1:21
  to therapy for adult children and just anybody.
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  It works for anybody.
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  But, they were talking the power of writing and the power of narrative when it comes to ex- healing, and that was very much my story.
• 1:33
  I'm a writer first.
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  I identify as a writer first, and as you call them, an experienced thriver, somebody who has come to this work not from a clinical perspective, but as somebody who learned the power telling my story and using writing as
• 1:47
  a way to even understand that I was hiding my story to begin with.
• 1:54
  and great to be here and to get into all of that with you today.
• 1:57
  Perfect.
• 1:58
  I those episodes we have with people that use any kind of creative expression, whether it's writing, dancing, singing, whatever it is, because people do not understand, and it goes back to a lot of what my work is, and
• 2:10
  we were talking about that earlier, is the need for a physical release from stored trauma.
• 2:16
  Yes.
• 2:16
  Yes.
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  They just, the...
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  they think, "Oh, if I just forget about "If I move out of the house, everything's better."
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  So far from the truth.
• 2:26
  Yes.
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  S- so talk about, because I know one of the first questions you pinged on with me was you grew up with an alcoholic parent.
• 2:34
  Yes.
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  Was it your mom or dad?
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  is that okay to share, or?
• 2:37
  Yeah, it was my dad, and in my book I call him my alcoholic, because I like to distinguish from the fact that, he's on his recovery journey too, and I've learned 12 step programs and from a- ACA, which
• 2:49
  is for adult children of alcoholics, specifically the 12 step program for us, control what he does, and I've spent so much of my life trying change control his behaviors.
• 3:00
  and so to delineate that and also- describe, the of him that lives in my head and like the boogeyman version from all of my memories.
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  I call that person the alcoholic, my alcoholic, because his presence shaped my life defined my life strongly.
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  It's different than the, individual lives and exists in his community and is on his own recovery journey today.
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  But yes, he is my alcoholic and it was my dad.
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  Okay.
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  Yeah, I was fortunate enough, if I say fortunate enough, but I had both of mine.
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  Oh, wow.
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  So my mom, my dad was an alcoholic.
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  My mother was a alcoholic/drug addict/very, very mentally ill human being.
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  Bless her heart.
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  now- Yeah I can say that.
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  Back then I didn't say that.
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  Back then there was- Yeah anger and just, ugh- Yeah so much anger.
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  But I mean- Yeah and you said, like you said, y- you talked about your dad being on his recovery journey, and it's this version of him that lives in your head.
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  You said the boogeyman version, and I love that you used that because- Yeah it is that version.
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  It's that version where they have no...
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  It's almost like the Dr.
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  Jekyll and Mr.
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  Hyde.
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  these two people.
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  Yeah.
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  And now there's this kind, loving, gentle probably father, I don't know.
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  But there's a father that- has feelings Yes back then, wasn't the father you saw.
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  You probably saw the angry, disgruntled, whatever.
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  I don't know what your situation was, but- Yeah it is interesting that you segregate those two, and you're like, "I have my alcoholic, and I have my dad."
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  Yes.
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  Yes.
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  And, and you nailed it.
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  that Dr.
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  Jekyll and Mr.
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  Hyde thing, that used to be phrase in our household.
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  My mom's a nurse.
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  She, which I think is very common, in a lot of dysfunctional homes.
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  There's a and then the caretakee.
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  I've learned in recovery we're all a key ingredient.
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  even as children, we participants in this kind of dysfunctional choreography, learn to play that learn to dance whatever dance we need to dance in order to get through and so yeah.
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  I forget where I was going with that other than the fact that, my alcoholic is that person, the person who me and turned me into that adaptive- role that was a participant in that circus.
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  And then as an adult, I've learned how to distinguish who that person is, the one that's participating in this chaos, compared to the person I actually am.
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  I'm 36, so it's been an 18-year journey since I've been out of the home, of that person is and then learning how to take care of that person, the way that I ought to have been taken care of.
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  and I wish, and yearned for a long time that I always was able to be taken care of, And that goes back to, and we're gonna jump right in, and talk a little bit about inner child work.
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  hear it and they go, "Inner child work?
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  I don't have an inner child."
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  Yes I say it to people at work who I been through those traumatic backgrounds, and they'll say something to me, and they'll snap at me, and I'll...
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  They'll be like- Yeah "I'm so sorry, that wasn't me."
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  And I just think to myself, and sometimes I say it out loud, I'm like, "No, that was, that was the seven-year-old you."
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  Yeah.
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  "That was the you that didn't like being told no, or had their hand slapped when they went to grab."
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  It's like you can see it.
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  And of course, I'm in this world and people with this, so I see it quicker than everybody else.
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  But inner child work is so transformational.
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  And I say even if you don't have the means ability to get to a psychologist or a psychiatrist or even a coach or anybody, if you don't have the means to get to some formal kind "Help me, I
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  don't know where I am," or, "I'm stuck," inner child work to me is the simplest.
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  You can educate yourself on how to get touch with that inner child.
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  Yeah.
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  And it's so valuable.
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  Yeah.
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  So talk a little bit about your experience when you started inner child work.
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  Yeah.
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  I love what you said of, whenever you have to take responsibility for her sometimes.
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  sorry, that was the five-year-old version of me that was mad about getting her hand slapped or whatever.
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  Because, I think the...
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  To summarize, I think if you had to summarize who these inner children are, I have at least four.
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  they're reactors, They're the reactors that were upset by situations that were rightfully upsetting.
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  and the problem is that- In a dysfunctional home, we 90 to 90% of our- 99% of our time reacting to the chaos all around us that over time, it's like these personalities get calcified.
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  we keep reacting, and then suddenly we start to identify with that reactive version.
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  We think that that's who we are because, if that's how If that's our behavior 90% of the time and that's the way people see us and that's the way the world sees us, and then we get labeled as
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  being emotional or mean or, judgy or, sarcastic or whatever.
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  I had a lot of negative, negative labels.
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  a know-it-all, lecturer.
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  I have all of these little inner children, all of these little anal- inner parts, that were just trying to, create sense- make sense and create, and create kind a sense of control in a, in situations that felt uncontrollable.
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  And but they were all just reactions.
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  were just adaptations that I picked up and slowly started to identify with To the my real personality became invisibilized and hidden underneath all of that reaction.
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  so yeah, I have about four, I think, inner children.
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  one that I got to know, I call her Grace.
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  and my, my par- I used to have a partner who was also a writer, and I was- I s- I met Grace when I was working on a novel, and she became such a presence in my that he
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  and I...
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  when you're a writer, working on characters.
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  You really get to know your characters.
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  So he and I had, this shorthand where I would send him pictures and be like, "I think Grace would love this.
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  I think Grace would love this."
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  and so she c- became in my life.
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  and I thought I was writing a character based on myself, but it was really based on like this teenage version of me that had a chip on her shoulder.
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  very relatable story for us.
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  who just wanted away and ride off into the sunset and go on this adventure.
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  So Grace goes big road trip and has misadventures and meets all these, all these characters in life.
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  but she's and she's wounded, and she's, taken on this kind of rebel persona in order to mask and feel courageous, because, in her core she's deeply hurt.
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  so that's Grace, and we love her.
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  sassy.
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  She knows a lot.
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  She, she is a know-it-all.
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  And, and I love her, But, but as I was writing the character, I started to feel really uncomfortable because I the more that I wrote her, the more I started becoming the person who was writing and that meant
• 9:56
  that I to self-reflect.
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  I had to think about her motivations.
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  I had to think about, "Well, why would she do that?"
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  Why would she just get in the car and drive without thinking about how much gas was in the tank?
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  Or, without thinking about how she was gonna pay for stuff.
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  And, why would she be mean to this person?
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  And why would she drink too much?
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  And why would she smoke cigarettes?
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  when I started asking all those questions and considering her motivations, slowly became the more mature, self-reflective, thoughtful, long-term thinking person, m- that- am.
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  Like, I became more of an adult reflecting on behaviors.
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  So that process was really instrumental in helping me meet my inner cast of characters, my inner family.
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  And then I went to therapy and I started doing all the work with the versions of myself that kind of Grace in order to protect, And that's where the real wounds existed.
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  Yeah.
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  Grace is really good at covering up her wounds.
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  And a of those, for the people out there listening too, you you could probably put yourself in Megan's shoes right now and picture and picture that little wound.
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  Because that's what it means.
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  It's going It's going all the way and that little...
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  It is.
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  It's just giving that wounded inner child what they didn't get or what they didn't need.
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  And none of it, like you, you know now but you didn't know then, that the reason they adapted and became sassy and smart was all be- for protection.
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  Yeah.
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  It was either for protection or it was for getting what they needed.
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  So it was not any fault of little Gra- little Yeah that you adapted this way.
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  That's how life wor- that's how literally survival of the spittest, or survival of the species, that's how it works.
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  You adapt stay safe.
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  Yes.
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  And unfortunately, that stuff gets so buried.
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  Yes.
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  Yeah.
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  So buried.
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  I started working with the therapist you 'cause I th- I think I really struggled actually when I started going to therapy because I'm good, Grace is so good at appearing competent and appearing like, just a duck letting the
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  water just roll off of my feathers.
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  nothing bothers me.
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  So I would, go to therapists and I would end up therapizing them or, coaching them and trying to motivate them.
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  Grace is so strong in that way.
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  and those adaptions that I took on are so strong that way.
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  so when I finally met some therapists and worked with them who I trusted, it really came down to, can I trust this person?
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  Do I feel like this person's gonna be able to all parts of my story without getting freaked out or blaming me or, judging my behaviors or whatever?
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  Can they...
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  or yeah, just getting freaked out.
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  I didn't wanna freak anyone out.
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  Once I realized, that I was in a place where I could go there, then I started meeting, the wounded parts that Grace developed to protect.
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  And those parts are much younger.
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  I call my youngest inner child that I know of so far, her name is Dorothy, and that's because when I was a little kid I used to get lost in imagination used to imagine that I was Dorothy from
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  The Wizard of Oz, which if you think about that story, it's a girl wanting to run away from and go on an adventure.
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  And it was harder.
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  a lot of times the younger versions of ourselves are pre-verbal or they don't ha- they're not quite as articulate.
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  they're less emotionally developed and so the...
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  I- it's it's more, for me it was more of, a feeling.
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  can I just get into that feeling?
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  And I did this all kind of through journaling.
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  I would ask, what they were sad about, what they were mad about.
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  And I think that adaptation of being highly imaginative and wanting to call myself Dorothy and wanting live in fantasy and wanting to live in escapism is like a five-year-old's version of, like- dissociation, right?
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  Getting away- Yeah from environment that feels scary.
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  and that, when I think I was alone a lot.
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  I had a brother in my house who was older than me.
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  He was often out playing with the big kids, and I was younger, before school started, before I had peers, and witnessing things in my household that were confusing, right?
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  seeing my, my, my alcoholic coming home and one day and being very happy and being cheerful, and then on the next day being very, stormy and moody and, depressed and having depressive episodes and not being as cuddly and
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  welcoming sleeping a lot.
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  And, not understanding this, not having anyone to talk to about it, it's like little version of me just went away into imagination.
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  and so getting into those feelings again was kinda hard because I found that I had all of these defense mechanisms that were very fun and very colorful and very- flowery, but they were all defense mechanisms.
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  they developed to prevent me from feeling those feelings that at one point in my life much too overwhelming, to process.
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  Do you remember the first time that you actually, someone said to you, "How does that make you feel?"
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  Or, like, when you were just trying to be Meagan- Oh and how does Meagan feel?
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  Do you remember that?
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  I always my reaction was like, "I'm fine."
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  What do you mean?
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  I remember mine.
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  I was like, "Feel?"
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  Because something happened pretty bad, and I remember I went to therapy and she said, "Tammy, you're not angry?"
• 15:21
  no."
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  "You're not mad?
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  you're not pissed?"
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  "No."
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  "You're not sad?"
• 15:27
  "No."
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  I had not an emotion in the world.
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  Yeah.
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  And I, and I still to this day, I'm 58 years old, I am a big dissociator.
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  I would rather step out and watch something happen outside.
• 15:39
  Yes.
• 15:40
  That's just, it my defense mechanism, and I've dealt with all of that younger part of it, but still to this day, like, when my got hurt, I would stand back and I would watch it happen.
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  was literally...
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  And it was, when I my stroke, I stood outside and watched myself have a stroke.
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  And people were like, "That's kinda creepy."
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  And I'm like, "But that's what my mind Yes.
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  It just boop- we're gonna, we're gonna deal, we're gonna, we're gonna watch objectively from this spot where there is no pain and there scared and there is...
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  And we're gonna, like you said, you look very hi- very together and everything else, and we're gonna just take care of business.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  It's remarkable, isn't it?
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  It is.
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  our brain's ability to compartmentalize so much.
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  We have all these protective mechanisms that make sure that we don't feel things until it's safe to feel them.
• 16:31
  And so I think a lot of the work of recovery was just reminding myself that it is safe to feel.
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  Because on one hand, when you protect so much that it a habit, that it's hard to recognize when your life is calm enough and the conditions are safe enough for you to go back and feel.
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  Because at that point you're just still in the habit of not feeling.
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  So you have to...
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  I had to consciously remind myself and tell myself, "I can feel this now.
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  It's over.
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  The bad thing is over.
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  I've survived it."
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  and one of the gifts of a dysfunctional home is that I have an enormous and disproportionate confidence in my ability to...
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  that I could probably survive anything, or at least a lot.
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  Oh, absolutely.
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  100% agree.
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  And- That's good.
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  That's a good- peeling it back and being like, yeah, it's a good thing.
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  But I'm like, but can I enjoy?
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  Can I thrive?
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  Can I feel the full capacities of being human as a, as a...
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  and by that I mean not just like adrenaline and, vigor that comes when you're in those life or death moments, but can I feel softness?
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  Can I feel play?
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  Can I feel pleasure?
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  Can I feel, inspiration?
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  Can I feel joy?
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  Can I feel curiosity?
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  Can I feel all these kind of like softer things, that don't require like urgency and, and and survival instincts.
• 17:58
  And so many of the times that, that is the hardest thing.
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  I was just, just putting together this package and I was trying to find like the five most relevant quotes for all adult children of alcoholics.
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  let's just say, or dysfunctional families or whatever it is.
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  But one of them was uneasiness, or stillness and quiet- feels so uncomfortable.
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  Oof.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  And I, you re- remember?..
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  I remember for years I would...
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  things would get good.
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  I'd meet a good guy.
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  I'd meet a nice guy, and then all of a sudden I'd be like, "Okay, what's gonna happen?
• 18:31
  What's going wrong?"
• 18:31
  And I was constantly moving.
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  I remember so many people have just said to me, "Tammy, can you just stop and sit down and relax?"
• 18:39
  Yeah.
• 18:39
  No.
• 18:41
  I can now, obviously, but it was very uncomfortable.
• 18:45
  And I tell people that- are happy that they have this, "I'm gonna shut the world out and I'm gonna be able to shut off."
• 18:54
  But they forget, like you said, that when you shut off the pain and the anger and the scared and the hypervigilance, and you shut all that off, you also shut off the joy and the love and the...
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  You shut everything when you shut down.
• 19:07
  Yes.
• 19:08
  Yes.
• 19:09
  Yeah.
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  And it's worth it.
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  worth feeling, It really is.
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  'cause feelings don't hurt you, No.
• 19:17
  It's the situation that- Triggered the feeling that could've been potentially harmful and, and often continues to be potentially harmful if somebody's still in those situations.
• 19:28
  but the feelings themselves are just the loyal messengers, Here to alert us.
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  Yeah.
• 19:34
  And so I- that's something I tell myself all the time.
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  I'm like, "I can't die from a feeling," I just can't.
• 19:40
  Nope.
• 19:40
  Nope.
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  I can't die from having an emotion, so safe to feel the emotion.
• 19:44
  And so my, working with my inner children has allowed me to, to become the person that's able to hold their emotions.
• 19:51
  I have this practice called family meeting where I get out a journal and I have, a different colored pen for each of my inner children that I've identified so And like I said, there's, I think there's four.
• 20:02
  is the oldest one, then there's Dorothy, and then I have like my...
• 20:05
  Angie's my 10-year-old.
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  and I say Angie because my middle name's Angeline, and when I was 10 I really wanted to change my name to Angie, and I became a tomboy.
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  And which, again- tough, right?
• 20:17
  I'm tough.
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  which I'm not.
• 20:20
  I'm not a tomboy.
• 20:21
  Anybody who knows me is I'm a I love pink sparkles, and I, I love musicals.
• 20:28
  that's Dorothy, right?
• 20:29
  Dorothy was, like, the one that was getting lost in imagination, but then that was, it was unsafe to be that person, so I had to learn how to be tough.
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  So then Angie comes on board, and Angie's also, a compartmentalizer.
• 20:41
  one of my kind of adaptations was when things feel uncontrollable, I make a lot of lists, I color code I get really fixated on my calendar.
• 20:52
  Control and when I was about...
• 20:54
  Yes.
• 20:55
  Control.
• 20:56
  Exactly.
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  just make the perfect color-coded system, even behind me you'll see, there's lists behind me.
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  if I can make a system, then I can, and I follow the system, then I'll be safe.
• 21:07
  I'll tell you, I make a lot of systems, and I don't always follow them, but just that initial act of making them, w- it does something to soothe my inner children, so I allow it.
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  But, it's funny 'cause when I was, 10, I had this one teacher who always had us do logic and I don't know if anybody remembers these from the '90s, but they were, like, paragraphs that had questions in them,
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  like very, if this was to happen and if this person comes, let's say you're in a scenario and there's all these, like- Variables and things that can be and things that can't be, then what's the final solution to
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  the scenario?
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  So to solve them, you make a grid, and then you, X off the things that can't happen, but then put check marks on the things that do happen.
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  this might ring a bell to some people.
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  It's not super important other than the fact that when I was about 10, I learned this way of, making very logical grids with Xs and marks, and I think something about the structure of that, and school was happy
• 22:06
  place because school was predictable and orderly, and I, I felt I was self-esteemed in school 'cause I had teachers who saw my worth and made me feel good about myself.
• 22:16
  And so my little inner 10-year-old, like when I feel myself compulsively wanting to make lists and make those grids and make those puzzles, I have to now become adult that's able to see that's happening, then give my little
• 22:32
  inner 10-year-old a hug, A, a figurative and metaphorical hug.
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  And I'll journal with her and I'll say, I'm noticing you're making lots of lists.
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  can you tell me the feeling behind these lists?"
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  And fear, It's fear.
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  I'm afraid.
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  what if?
• 22:46
  what if?
• 22:47
  What if?
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  if you think about it developmentally, a 10-year-old is, old enough to start to see what's going on around them.
• 22:55
  They're aware of their surroundings, and especially if you are, as I was, like a kind of bright, a lot of people would use the word precocious, which is a use- a word we use to describe little girls a
• 23:08
  lot, and I it's kind of a problematic word.
• 23:09
  But, that was, like, the kind of personality that I had, and so when I But you're also 10.
• 23:16
  You don't really have any real power and you don't h- you don't, still don't have the brain of an adult, even if you can- Even if you can identify and articulate things that sound like you know what's going
• 23:26
  on, you still don't really know what's going on.
• 23:28
  And so- and if you grew up the way many people did, you also didn't have a really good role mil- model to tell you that what you were thinking was valid.
• 23:37
  So- Yeah so even if you were like, "Oh, wow, I see that and I see that," nobody was going, "Oh, you're right.
• 23:43
  You're right, Tammy.
• 23:44
  That's exactly what's going on."
• 23:45
  You didn't have that a lot of times.
• 23:48
  Yeah.- And honestly, I had two alcoholic parents, so nobody ever backed me up.
• 23:51
  But you literally you start to question yourself, and you start to not trust your own instinct and your own judgment.
• 23:57
  Yeah.
• 23:58
  And that happens a lot, too.
• 24:00
  Yes.
• 24:01
  And then hence, so that's why Angie goes into overdrive because she's making all these observations that are valid, and then not having them be validated, you feel...
• 24:12
  I felt like she felt just need more evidence.
• 24:15
  I need to get more evidence.
• 24:16
  I need to get more evidence.
• 24:17
  Let me make more lists.
• 24:18
  Let me document more.
• 24:19
  Let me point things out."
• 24:21
  And I think for a lot of people, this might be the instinct that drove them to read that first self-help book, or take that yoga class, or that first therapy session or whatever.
• 24:32
  Because I don't know about everybody, but I felt like there was something wrong w- eventually I started to feel like there was something wrong with me, the rest of the world is crazy.
• 24:41
  Nobody is validating that it's crazy, so I must be the crazy one.
• 24:45
  I'm gonna figure out what the problem is with me and I'm gonna fix it, unfortunately thinking in the subconscious mind that you started at probably three, two, before you could verbalize.
• 24:57
  But like you were talking about before- Yeah before you could verbalize, before you could say these things, before you were, your brain was intelligent enough of, to, really process what was going on, all of that internalization of, "It's
• 25:09
  me," is stored, is now stored.
• 25:12
  And that's the inner child work so good to start bringing that out.
• 25:15
  And like you said, journaling with it, writing with it, everything else.
• 25:18
  Yeah.
• 25:18
  Incredible.
• 25:19
  Incredible.
• 25:20
  So I don't wanna cut you off, but I know we have to be respectful of people's time here.
• 25:23
  But, Yeah tell us about your book Thank you.
• 25:27
  My book is from the perspective of an experienced thriver.
• 25:31
  It's not a clinical book.
• 25:34
  it d- it pulls from psychological studies and things like that.
• 25:38
  There you'll find some references work and work of experts who've gone before me in there.
• 25:43
  But it's half memoir, half personal development book.
• 25:46
  So there's, I talk about my, my family meeting method, so if you wanna learn how to do it yourself, you can.
• 25:54
  you'll find, I think I do mention my fourth inner child, so you'll meet her and learn about her.
• 25:59
  and then it invites you to practice the s- the writing exercises yourself.
• 26:03
  There's lots of journal questions and journal prompts in there, as well as kind of my framework on how I learned to go from surviving to thriving, Like I said, earlier, I came to this realization in my life.
• 26:17
  I was living in New York City, and I was living my dream, because I thought, Grace thought, my adoptive teenager thought that if I was just successful enough and if I worked hard enough and then I got to
• 26:28
  a certain point, then my life would be, my life would be set.
• 26:32
  and then my, ACA bottom, one of many, and- but the one that really killed me.
• 26:39
  I was in New York during the pandemic, and I had gotten broken up with and dumped.
• 26:43
  And on paper I looked like I knew what I was talking about because I was a, a reporter for CNBC, and I was a m- I Somebody on LinkedIn called me a money expert, and I was like, "Oh,
• 26:55
  wow, I've convinced the whole world that I'm thriving," but I wasn't internally thriving, I didn't know how to have relationships.
• 27:04
  I didn't know how to feel con- truly confident in myself of- You know, having those con- my confidence validated by achievements.
• 27:13
  and I didn't know how to be relational.
• 27:15
  All I knew was how to prop up these adaptations and say, "Look at me.
• 27:20
  I know what I'm doing.
• 27:21
  I'm fine, I'm fine, So the book goes into kind of my process, of moving from that state of looking like I'm thriving but really surviving into how to actually have the capacity to, be with all of the parts
• 27:35
  of myself, learn how to become the person that I actually am.
• 27:39
  What does that even mean?
• 27:40
  we hear this idea of true self.
• 27:43
  To me, that was so vague and frustrating and confusing because I was like, I was trying so hard.
• 27:51
  and I was like, "What do you mean I have to try harder?"
• 27:52
  And it's like, no, you don't have to try harder.
• 27:54
  You have to learn how to be with yourself more.
• 27:56
  So that's what my book goes And, and it gives lots of journal prompts for people who want to do the writing and, and journaling to do the same process themselves.
• 28:05
  I love that.
• 28:06
  Like I said, that's the one kind of book where you can literally grab it and know nothing.
• 28:10
  And between that and, and Google and just th- you can learn to really start to connect with yourself.
• 28:16
  I remember the first time asked, someone asked me, who is Tammy?
• 28:19
  Who is she?"
• 28:21
  I was wrapped up around everybody else's identity, and I had no freaking idea.
• 28:26
  No freaking idea.
• 28:27
  Yes.
• 28:28
  And we could do a whole nother podcast episode, which I think I'm gonna invite you back if you are open to coming back.
• 28:33
  Oh, yeah.
• 28:33
  Of course.
• 28:33
  Because we're...
• 28:33
  I don't wanna cut, I don't wanna cut this short.
• 28:36
  But, yeah, I...
• 28:38
  We could talk a whole, a episode on just that.
• 28:41
  Identity and losing that identity, and how you can start to get it back.
• 28:45
  But journaling is such a powerful tool, and I encourage anybody, anybody, if you haven't tried it, to try it.
• 28:52
  I could talk a whole episode on just journaling.
• 28:55
  Yeah.
• 28:56
  And doing, the, your non-dominant hand and what that does, and your ego, and, there is so much could talk about.
• 29:02
  It's unbelievable.
• 29:03
  But we're gonna...
• 29:05
  I'm actually gonna just invite you That's probably easier.
• 29:07
  I would love that.
• 29:08
  Yeah.
• 29:09
  if people wanna work with you and reach out to you, where do they reach you, Megan?
• 29:14
  Yes.
• 29:15
  I'm a writer, so they can follow me, over on Substack.
• 29:20
  I might be moving it to Beehiiv soon, but if you subscribe to my Substack, then you'll s- you'll be in my world, and I'll be writing on this topic.
• 29:27
  I'm also a travel writer, so I also write about, like, where I go and the cool stuff that I do.
• 29:31
  So you can follow me there.
• 29:33
  And then, I also have a free chapter, first chapter of the book.
• 29:38
  A free first chapter of the book available on my website, megandimatteo.com.
• 29:42
  And that's, Megan, no H, M-E-G-A-N, D as in David, E, M as in Matthew, A-T-T-E-O.com.
• 29:50
  you can also pre-order the book or buy the book now directly from Broadleaf Books website.
• 29:54
  So just go to broadleafbooks.com.
• 29:56
  the book is called Emotionally Sober Unimaginably Good, and it comes out on August 18.
• 30:03
  And- Perfect I would love, for people to read it.
• 30:06
  Okay, perfect.
• 30:06
  And we will put all that in the show notes.
• 30:08
  I actually...
• 30:09
  wanted to get into the concept of emotionally sober, and I wanted to talk about the ACA, and I wanted to talk about all of that with you.
• 30:15
  So we are definitely gonna do a follow-up for sure.
• 30:19
  I would love that.
• 30:20
  Yes, absolutely.
• 30:21
  Before you go, though...
• 30:22
  First of all, thank you so much for coming on.
• 30:25
  And- Thank you for having me.
• 30:26
  You're very welcome.
• 30:26
  Before you go, if you could give the listeners one piece of advice, words of wisdom, or something positive to take with them today, what would it be?
• 30:34
  Oh, Okay, the one that comes to my mind immediately right now is for any kind of survivors of, of dysfunction kind, anyone who's ever felt like they needed to be, a warrior, be strong, and have, have the capacity
• 30:50
  to grin and bear it, something that's always interesting for me to th- to think about is, I have s- this capacity to be strong.
• 30:58
  What if I have the same capacity to enjoy, To enjoy life.
• 31:03
  And, and you do.
• 31:05
  We do.
• 31:06
  Human beings have range.
• 31:08
  and so if you're someone who identifies as being, a survivor, a hard worker, just know that you have the same ability to identify as somebody who has an easy, enjoyable, pleasurable life, and what would that be like?
• 31:27
  It is an identity shift, but it's possible, everything that you want is on the other side of this, identity of being, a tough person.
• 31:39
  and I'm- I think there's a lot of people in your life that would wanna meet whoever that person is, and it starts with you meeting them.
• 31:47
  Absolutely.
• 31:48
  And everybody can do it.
• 31:49
  I so love that.
• 31:50
  And for everybody else out there listening, you, you heard it.
• 31:54
  There is joy, there is love, there is all those other things there.
• 31:58
  You just have to, first of all, you have to believe that you are worthy, and I'm here to tell you, and if I have to scream it from the top of the mountains, I will do it every single
• 32:06
  day, you are so worthy.
• 32:07
  You are so enough, and you're...
• 32:10
  think I, in my podcast, on my outro it says, "And you are way more than enough," because we are.
• 32:15
  And somewhere along the li- somewhere along the way, life lifed on us, and we believed the lies that we're not, and we're not stepping out in the as our true, authentic, joyous, divine, amazing creatures that we were born.
• 32:29
  But we can do it.
• 32:29
  Every single one of us can.
• 32:31
  Yep.
• 32:32
  So thank you again, Megan.
• 32:34
  If you're here.
• 32:35
  If you're here, that's your birthright, Amen.
• 32:37
  You got that right.
• 32:39
  So for everybody else, you have a blessed day, have a blessed week.
• 32:41
  We will see you back, and check back tomorrow for another episode of Tammy Takes.
• 32:45
  Bye-bye.
• 32:45
  Thank, thank you, Tammy.
• 32:47
  You're welcome.