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Tamron Hall & Lish Steiling · Dishing with Stephanie's Dish

• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: Hi,
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Stephanie Hanson,
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_02: and you're listening to Dishing with Stephanie's Dish,
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_02: the podcast where we talk to cookbook authors and people that are obsessed with food.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: And today we have Lish Styling.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_02: Did I say that right, Lish?
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: Nailed it.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_02: And Tamron Hall.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_02: You said it wrong.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's Tamron Hall.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'm kidding.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's Tamron Hall.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I was like, shoot.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_02: I thought for sure I had that one right.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: Okay,
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_02: Lish Styling and Tamron Hall,
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_02: and they are the authors of Confident to Cook,
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: Recipes for a No-Pressure and Joyous Kitchen.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_02: You may have heard of Tamron Hall before.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: She is a talk show host.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: She is also a big foodie who has done a lot of work with the Food Network and judged some shows.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_02: And Lish, I'm really profoundly impressed by.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_02: She is with the Today Show.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: She's done segments.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: She is also,
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_02: you're a foodie in your own right,
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: Lish,
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: and I have followed some of your other projects that you've worked on.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: And when I was looking at the book, I was like, okay, she's got Suzanne Goyne.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: She's got Gail.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: She's got Carla.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: She's got Kristen Kish.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_02: She's got Chiata.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: You have like all the heavy hitters in my world of people in the cookbook scene
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: that commented on your book.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: So that's pretty cool.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: Between Tamara and I, we've got some folks.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: Now, how did you guys meet?
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: Tamara?
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we actually met at the Today Show.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Lish is no longer with the Today Show.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: She launched her own company,
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: which has been phenomenal in merging the world of food and fashion with her wife.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: But long before she launched her company and long before I've been fortunate enough
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: to win two Emmys for my daytime talk show,
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: We met at the Today Show.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: I was the host of the third hour and my office was next door to,
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: lucky enough,
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: the kitchen at the Today Show.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: And at the time I was single.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: I really didn't cook a lot, but I've always, as you pointed out, Stephanie loved food.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: I guess they call the foodies these days.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: And or those days.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I would go to the kitchen and grab whatever was left over from our very elaborate cooking segments.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: People often ask what happens to that food.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, the anchors of the show eat the food or the crew.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: I had first dibs because I was next door.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I went over to Lish and we just struck up a conversation.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I noticed that she had two tattoos on her inner forearm.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: And one was a radish, which I've never seen a radish in person until I met Lish.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: But I was like, OK, I recognize that from the salad bar.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's a radish.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then there was a carrot.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: And she also had a few bruises.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, wow, cooking is really hard because she's all bruised up.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: I said, what's up with the bruises?
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: And she said, you know, I'm in a boot camp, me and my wife, and we take this boot camp on Saturdays.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, hmm, okay, I'll join you at this boot camp if you help me learn to cook.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: And for background, Stephanie, my grandfather was a pit master in Luling, Texas.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: I read that.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: rich history of cooks.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: My father had cooked all of his life since age 14.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: He was in the military and he passed away in 2008.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I was looking for a way into cooking and I didn't have him anymore.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: This, this great cook was no longer in our lives.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: So we started laughing.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: Ha ha.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: Liz said, okay, game on.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: I went to the bootcamp and here we are 15 years later, a cookbook from that day.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: And are you still in the bootcamp?
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: No, we're not.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm a great cook because I learned from a great chef.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: And the funny thing is, no, I am not in that boot camp.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: Neither of us are, I should say.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: But Lish is still in great shape.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: I've been in morning TV prior to the Today Show for 30 years.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: And to your point, between the two of us, Lish has worked with some of the best chefs in the business.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I've had every chef that you can name on TV.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: the shows that I've done, but I was deeply inspired by Lisha's authenticity.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's one thing to do a cooking segment for two minutes, three minutes on a show.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's another for someone to say, okay, you know what?
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: Let me let you into this world, right?
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I was lucky enough,
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: even on a segment on today's show,
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mentioned that I wanted to learn to cook and I was inspired by my dad and the
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: great Barefoot Contessa Ina Gardner invited me to her place in the Hamptons.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you're so lucky.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: But even in that experience, I was so focused on her, I couldn't focus on, how do I learn to cook?
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I wanted to nestle between she and Jeffrey, but I needed to learn to cook.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I had my ace in a hole, you know, my goat, Lish, as my dear friend, who then said, let's get to it.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: But there was one complicated factor.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: We lived on other ends of Manhattan.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: And even though it's an 11 mile island, it will take you 45 minutes to get to where she was.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: And she started coaching me like all the great coaches through words,
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: through encouragement and text message.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_02: I'm impressed because I thought you were going to say Zoom just because.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: No, this was pre-Zoom.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: The only Zoom was that old cartoon, Zoom, Zoom, Zoom in the room.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: There was no Zoom.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: This was all pre-pandemic and Lish started out and she still has, I believe, our first text message.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: I know I do.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like, what do you want to cook?
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I had a grocery store near me.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: Fairway at the time was open near me.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I saw this, you know, bronzino filet.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: I knew I wanted to make a fish.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know much.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: So she said, grab a shallot, grab some thyme, grab a lemon.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: And that was all through text.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: And then we just we were off to the races, Lish.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's pretty cool.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: Lish,
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: I think I feel like I already know you just because you've got a radish on your arm
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_02: and B,
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_02: you're from the Midwest that,
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: people talk about the authenticity.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: We just have it.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know why we do, but a lot of Midwest people just do.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: When she asked you how to cook, I mean, why did you do it?
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like my friends asked me how to cook and I'm like, yeah, sure.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: Let me just get right on that.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: No, I fully love, first of all, I love teaching.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: I taught ballet when I was younger,
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: back in Milwaukee and just love like opening people's minds to different things and
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: also empowering people.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: You can make people feel so good by just empowering them how to do something.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: And like, yeah,
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: it's something that I've always had a passion for.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: So when she was actually open to just having a conversation and asking the questions,
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: she was just as committed as I was to,
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: she wanted to learn.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so we could just have honest conversation about how to do things.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: I could use the words that I use,
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: to describe things instead of,
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: having to be very proper about it.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: And it just kind of grew from there.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I've always been...
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: I like to support people and encourage them to do the things that they want to do as much as I can.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: Well, teaching is a really unique skill and it seems like that kind of turned you on and you had it.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_02: How did that like translate into a book?
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_02: Because I've written a book,
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: writing a book right now,
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_02: and I rue the day I said I would do number two because it's just it's like in your
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: brain and it's just all consuming and it takes like a year.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's true.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean,
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: even from the text messages,
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: we always joked saying we would do a cookbook called Cooking by Text because it was
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: the conversations that we had,
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: the honest conversations.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that we kind of had it in our back pocket a little bit for a couple of years.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: First, I don't know anything that's easy in life.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what we have in common in this cookbook is that we take you through it.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: But also, by the way, that's my bird.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm in my actual home,
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: in my actual kitchen,
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: where the cover of our phenomenal book and a lot of speaking of the authenticity,
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: we wanted these things to really reflect our true lives.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: So we didn't have a stage kitchen.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: This is my actual grill.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's my actual kitchen, Lisha's actual hands, my actual hands, no stand-ins.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, Halle Berry and I don't know, Jessica Chastain were not available to be our stand-ins.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: So this is all us authentically doing this, including the bird who participates in the cooking segments.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: As long as we're not doing chicken, she avoids all that, you know, her friends.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, the reality is,
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: to your point about that,
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: that Midwest sensibility and that authenticity,
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: I lived in Chicago for five or 10 years.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a Texan.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: We think we rival anyone in authenticity, but we're both very grateful.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: And to have the opportunity in life to be a published cookbook author and author of any kind, right?
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: These publishers, you don't go in and say tonight, even though I'm a,
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: on a talk show even though she's won a James Beard award and is is lauded by her
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: her peers the reality is they're not giving out cookbooks that you earn this and so
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: we had we feel uh Stephanie a very unique story in that the two of us met in this
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: this serendipitous way but how many times to your point if friends come to you and
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: said I want to learn to cook with millions of cookbooks out there
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: The confidence level is still so low.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: So Lish and I thought about it.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, how do you build someone up, right, in confidence?
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: You build them from the ground up.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: Well, how do you do that?
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: Give them the tools.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: So our book starts with what tools do you really need in the drawer that's right behind me?
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: do you really need in your pantry?
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: Now, you can have the things that you want.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: Some people have cultural things that they want in their kitchen.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: There's a big viral thing happening right now on social media.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: Name something that your grandma taught you in the kitchen.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of these things aren't in your everyday grocery store.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: They've been passed down.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: So you have those things that are cultural to you and how you were raised.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: But there are just certain stock things, right?
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: So we started from the bottom.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: What should you put in your pantry?
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: What do you really need in your kitchen drawers?
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then...
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: Technique.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: So Lish starts the book with technique.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: Something as simple as how to do an egg.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: How many times I was embarrassed to say to someone, I don't actually fry.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: I don't scramble good eggs.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: My husband thinks he does.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: He's wrong.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: He's not in the room, so I won't tell him.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: He's terrible at it.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: He thinks every Mother's Day I want these eggs that he makes and I pretend.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: But these simple things in life, I was able to ask Lish without embarrassment.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: So when you say salt to,
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: salt your water,
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: I used to do a pinch thinking that's salt in the water.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: Lish said, no, no, no.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: You've got to taste that water.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's got to feel and taste salty.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and so salt.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like a seed, you know, searing a steak.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: People think I put the steak on my pan.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: I got a great pan.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: I went out, bought it at some Spanish fancy store and I'm going to put my steak on.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: Then I'm going to turn the heat up.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's not.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: And Lish said, wait, wait, wait.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: You need hot pan, hot pan fat.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's the technique.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's the science behind it.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I was able to be your embarrassing cousin and ask all of the questions you want
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: to ask,
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: but you're afraid to.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_02: So when you break that down, let's just ask you both separately.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: What is in the kitchen drawer that thing that you feel like you always need and you
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: only get to answer one?
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, chef's knife.
• 11:20
  5,000%.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: A sharp chef's knife.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: I have a brand that I like.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: It feels good in my hand.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's easy to maintain the edge.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like that is 100%.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: Tamron, how about you?
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: Mine is a fish spatula.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'd never heard or seen a fish spatula.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: And my list sometimes keeps me from saying it.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: But going back,
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: Stephanie,
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: to what we were saying when I was setting out on this journey right after my dad
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: passed away.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: Some friends gave me a cooking class at a store and it was a visual like you're on
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: the one side of the cabinet and you're watching them do everything.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the chefs saw that I was really just emotional and just getting like, I got to learn.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: I was scared to run out of time to quote Hamilton, the musical.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: And because I set myself a one year deadline to cook a holiday meal for my family.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I went in to this store.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: Williams-Sonoma,
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: which I adore and I love,
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: but I left with like every employee following me like pretty woman with bags and
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: bags and bags and bags and bags of things.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: Some of the things I still have.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: Other things I realized weren't so practical for my lifestyle.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: But Lish came over like a week or two later and she said,
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: wait a minute,
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: we're going to the Restaurant Depot in like lower east side New York.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: We go in the restaurant Depot and she's like, we got to get you a fish spatula.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, oh, it's a spatula shaped like a fish.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's a fish.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: And it is my go-to tool.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's a gift that I give to people like who are starting to cook.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's like my,
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: when you,
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: when they would set sail a new boat and then the queen would like hit it with the champagne.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: I, I christen your kitchen with a fish spatula.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's thin, it's flexible, it's light.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you can flip things, fish and other things, obviously, with a lot more ease.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that helps build your confidence,
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: because how many times is someone you go to flip it and then that it sticks or it
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: doesn't and you get all trapped in your head that,
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: gosh,
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: I've messed up.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes the tools can help that.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: And depending on what the tools are.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: So when we, who do you think is the ideal like person that's going to buy this book?
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: Is it literally someone who doesn't know how to cook?
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: Is it someone that loves cooking, but wants to improve their skills or is it based on...
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's a solid and great question,
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: because I think,
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: and I'll let Lish also,
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: tell her view.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: But from my perspective,
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: it really is for people who are just starting out all the way to people who
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: consider themselves great chefs in the kitchen.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: Because what we have are also 73 plus phenomenal recipes,
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: some from her background in Wisconsin,
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: some from my roots in Texas.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: We have a short rib that is phenomenal that I'm making in a couple of days.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: And it's 90 degrees.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: And someone said, can you make short rib in 90 degrees?
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, can you eat in 90 degrees?
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and we have, you know, a chicken salad.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: We have the burger, which we both love.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: We have drinks.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: We have snacks.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: But it really is for someone who wants to jump in,
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: at the beginning of this race or someone who is,
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know,
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: the Usain Bolt.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: You are out.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: You are across the finish line.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: but you're looking for new and inventive recipes, which Lish masterfully created for this book.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_02: Lish, what is some of your favorite recipes in the book?
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: We just got a few.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, that slow cooked short rib.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like what you think of as short ribs.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like they're not cut in little squares.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: They're full slabs of short ribs that you slow roast, you know, low and slow.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: You rub it all down with stuff the night before.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: So all the flavor gets in there.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: Those are sexy as all get up.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: But the spatchcock chicken is amazing with pink peppercorns.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: I love there's an egg dish in there that's with creamed spinach and feta and mint.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's really sexy.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's hard to pick just one, right?
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: The tahini malt.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: Tahini malt is delicious.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that sounds delicious.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: An excellent chocolate chip cookie, triple chocolate chip.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: Even our snacks.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we have these phenomenal, you know, you get your basic kettle chip.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: We made these on my show yesterday.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: And you season them.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: We have a mimosa bar where,
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: we agreed to be the testers,
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: if you will,
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: for the mimosa bar where we pair this delicious cherry with the Prosecco with a
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: little salt brings out the flavor.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: So it really is for and I know people like to say,
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: let me tell you,
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: the only thing it is not,
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: it is not a vegan cookbook.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: And God bless those who are.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: But we wanted to be authentic to who we are.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: And we have.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: We are Texas and Wisconsin.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: You wouldn't have beef in this country without the states we were born in.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: But we also love hearty vegetables.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: So Lish has this, you know, bowl salad.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like, really, it's almost everything you can imagine in a salad.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: And as she describes it, it's all the good stuff that's at the bottom of the salad.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: And you're done and you're like, wait a minute, that's all the good stuff.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because we were also mindful,
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: Stephanie,
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: that we have a chapter on lunch because to your point,
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: asking that we do this over Zoom,
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: as we were creating this book together and telling our story,
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: Zoom really did become a thing.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: And now, for example, on my staff,
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: somewhere around 60% to 75 don't have never come into the studio regularly or don't come into regularly.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: And there's no reason to feel that I have to skip lunch or I have to grab some
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: tasteless bar or that I have to run up a delivery tab that's way more than I can
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: probably afford.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: So we have these lovely low key lunches in there that you can prepare for yourself
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: and no longer feel that,
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: okay,
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not in the office.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: I can't pop down and get a grab and go.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: You can equip those things in your own home.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_02: Love that.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: Lish, have you ever made Suzanne Goyne's Sunday Supper at Luke her short rib?
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I haven't made that specific recipe,
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: but I will say Sunday Suppers at Luke's was one of the first cookbooks that like I
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: would go to constantly.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: It was so inspiring to me.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: I loved and still do love her style of food.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: The first time that I got to meet her,
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: I was working with Jada De Laurentiis and we were doing a woman's dinner for Alex's
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: Lemonade Stand.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: And it was Suzanne Gowen, Nancy Oaks, Nancy Silverton, April Bloomfield, Jada, and Sherry Yard.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I literally texted my old chef saying, oh my God, this is like...
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: I can't make this up.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: it was like a dream come true that to just to be in a kitchen with all of these
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: outstanding female chefs,
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: which we shouldn't even have to say female chefs.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: They're just outstanding chefs, you know, like, so that book is very near and dear to my heart.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, mine too.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_02: Cause I,
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_02: I think I made,
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: her short rib takes like a day and a half to make as you do the marinating and
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: I just remember making that for my husband and feeling like I'd arrived, like that I could do that.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that that was a sort of sophisticated cookbook.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I always saw myself as just a home cook.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_02: And when I finished that dish, I really felt like, wow, I think I got this.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: And that confidence that you get from trying unique recipes and also trusting the
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: people that wrote the book that you're cooking from.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: Because let's be honest,
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_02: and no offense to Martha Stewart,
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: because I love her as a person,
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: but some of the books,
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: the recipes were like...
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: maybe 60 to 70% solid versus like an Ina Garten where every recipe works all the time.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_02: A hundred percent, you know, she tested that thing 30 times.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that Lish has that same,
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: Stephanie,
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'll jump in and tell you because,
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: listen,
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: she created these recipes.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: We talked it through.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: And for example,
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: our first family vacation together,
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: we all went to Antigua and my nephew who's here visiting now from Buffalo and
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: And we went out on this great adventure.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: And when we came back, I said, when we do our cookbook, we have to have a whole fish.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: Because to your point, it's a sense of accomplishment.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: So these recipes, Liz toiled over and created, and really not just for a book.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: This is a story of her building these recipes over time.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: And my assignment was to take the recipes and then...
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: cook them in this kitchen.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so again,
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: we kept that student teacher relationship because to your point,
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: Stephanie,
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't want people to go and my name on this book,
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: her name's on this book and then cook the recipe and say,
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: wait a minute,
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: I thought Tamron Hall really liked food.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: This is terrible.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I needed to, for my credibility and peace of mind to go in and make all of these.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: And there is in the book,
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: you see after most of the recipes,
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: there's a Q and A because I would call her and say,
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: For example, I couldn't find pink peppercorn when we are we have any low taste style corn.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I was out in the Hamptons and Sag Harbor.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know if they just had a run on pink peppercorn.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure what happened, but I went to like five different stores.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I can't find pink peppercorn.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, OK, make this adjustment.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: You can still do this.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: You can still do that.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so we ask or I ask for substitutes.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: We also have a little disclaimer when something requires a night prep.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: before.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: Because I've had that.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: I've got the chicken.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: I saw this recipe to your point and someone's cookbook or on someone's app.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's in fine print marinade or brine.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: Gosh, darn it.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: I've got this chicken and now I'm mad.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: So, and you don't have dinner.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have dinner and now I'm going to order takeout because I'm mad.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm now mad at the person who wrote the book.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: So I want it to really give that authentic voice of what it feels like to be that
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: person in your kitchen with a chicken and realizing in the fine print,
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: it said marinate overnight.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like as a cookbook author, it's,
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's so it's like it's a fine line to walk.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: Because you really want to empower people like you want to make them feel good.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: And we can look at a recipe and go, oh, that's not going to work and change it.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: But the home cook can't.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: Most home cooks can't.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so when they fail at a recipe, they feel like it's their fault.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: And that's like anti what we want to do.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's like you want to lift them up.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: They can't look at that and say, oh, that was just a poorly written recipe.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, I must have done something wrong.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's what we want to avoid.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's what we want to avoid with a confident cook is really boosting the
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: confidence and supporting them along the journey and giving them recipes that do
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: work and are executable at the same time that they're not so above and beyond that
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: you feel intimidated by them.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: But you are, they are, they are, we have some, you know, big accomplishment moments.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, a spatchcock chicken, you can go your whole life and never spot spatchcock anything.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: I had, you know, I was, I was 50 years old before I spatchcock a chicken.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, but, but we wanted you to build that confidence, right?
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: So you'll find recipes and you instantly feel like, oh, pshh.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: I got that.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: We have this baked French toast that, you know, it's delicious.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's cardamom.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's overnight.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: So it's, you know, following the recipe, putting it in.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's a different experience,
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think,
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: for a novice cook,
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: because a lot of times people think overnight,
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: that's going to be hard.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: It actually eases your stress the next day.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it's one of the group recipes that I cook.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, boy.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: I probably do that French toast every time someone visits my home.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: And my godson, his mother doesn't cook.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, she does now because she's my best friend and she's got the pre-copy of this book.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: But
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: He came over and he goes, Ma, this is the best.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: I can eat this every day.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: He's like a nine-year-old.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, this is heaven.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: But I prepared and put it in the refrigerator, let it soak overnight.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: And bring it out.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a crowd pleaser,
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: but we wanted people to have those moments of accomplishment on a small scale,
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: but also a grand scale.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: It took me two solid tries to spatchcock a chicken.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: The first time I called Lish and I was like, I can throw this chicken.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: It can go back to Kentucky.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: I was done, you know, but.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: I was determined to learn.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then once you read what she says, follow it through, it just clicks.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a bicycle.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: At some point, it just clicks.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: And this book is about letting it click for those who are starting out,
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: but also making it interesting and challenging and delicious and sexy and savory
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: enough for those who feel that they've cooked everything,
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: but you've not cooked these things.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: I do love people can preorder the book.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_02: It comes out on September 3rd.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: You guys have both used the word sexy to describe food.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: You're the first people I've ever interviewed about a cookbook that have used that word.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: Really?
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: And it's really intriguing to me.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_02: A, it's very like titillating, right?
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: Because you're like, oh, the recipes are sexy.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_02: But it's also what does like a sexy recipe or sexy presentation mean to you?
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: Stephanie, I'll do one thing.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: Do this for me.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: Go.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: Sexy.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: See, that's it.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: When you, when you take that bite, you know, everyone's into the audio.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: What is it?
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: AMSR.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's the whole, it's sensation.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: How many times have you taken a bite of something,
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: this tahini malt,
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: and you're going to say,
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: that's like a,
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: that's like your honeymoon right there.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: You're welcome.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I like it.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_02: I like the idea of a tahini malt too.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_02: So that's great.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: So good.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: So good.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my God.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_02: Well, how fun to talk to you guys.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for spending time with us today.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_02: Do you want people to pre-order at Amazon or independent bookstores?
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_02: What's your preference?
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we love supporting independent bookstores.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: You can go to aconfidentcook.com and we have a link there to pre-order and a number
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: of different options for people to make it easy.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: Okay,
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: you can get it wherever your books are sold,
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: whether it's a local bookstore,
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: which we love to support,
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: or any place,
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: because one of the things that we recognize,
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: even with the books,
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: Stephanie,
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: we are kids from small towns and things aren't always as accessible in a small
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: little town as they are in the big old cities that we live in.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: So wherever you get your books,
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: Please check it out and enjoy and make sure you end every single one with a mmm.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_02: I'm always going to think about that now too.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_02: When someone does that, I'm going to think about you guys and laugh.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_02: Well, if you want to revisit, I'll go ahead and I'll get this podcast posted so people can pre-order.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_02: But if around the holidays,
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_02: when you're ready for another boost and want to talk about it again,
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: just give us a jingle.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: We'll have you back because it was real fun.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: What an honor.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Stephanie.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for being our guest.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: I appreciate you.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_02: A pleasure.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: Take care.