Latest / iwon™ podcast with Michael J Thomas / This Blind Spot Ruins Product-Market Fit & Growth | Scott Byrne-Fraser | iwon podcast

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This Blind Spot Ruins Product-Market Fit & Growth | Scott Byrne-Fraser | iwon podcast · iwon™ podcast with Michael J Thomas

• 0:00
  Welcome
• 0:00
  to
• 0:00
  the
• 0:01
  podcast.
• 0:02
  If
• 0:02
  you're
• 0:03
  new
• 0:03
  here,
• 0:03
  I
• 0:04
  am
• 0:04
  Michael
• 0:04
  J.
• 0:05
  Thomas
• 0:05
  and
• 0:05
  I
• 0:05
  created
• 0:06
  this
• 0:06
  for
• 0:06
  you.
• 0:07
  For
• 0:07
  ambitious
• 0:08
  founders,
• 0:09
  innovators,
• 0:10
  anybody
• 0:10
  who
• 0:11
  wants
• 0:11
  to
• 0:12
  be
• 0:12
  a
• 0:12
  part
• 0:13
  of
• 0:13
  something
• 0:13
  worth
• 0:13
  listening
• 0:14
  to.
• 0:14
  As
• 0:15
  an
• 0:15
  innovator,
• 0:16
  you
• 0:16
  want
• 0:16
  to
• 0:16
  do
• 0:16
  something
• 0:17
  great.
• 0:18
  There
• 0:18
  are
• 0:18
  so
• 0:18
  many,
• 0:19
  many,
• 0:19
  many
• 0:20
  people
• 0:20
  that
• 0:20
  make
• 0:20
  a
• 0:20
  product
• 0:21
  great.
• 0:21
  These
• 0:21
  people
• 0:22
  have
• 0:22
  so
• 0:22
  much
• 0:23
  talent,
• 0:23
  experience
• 0:24
  and
• 0:24
  knowledge
• 0:24
  to
• 0:25
  share
• 0:25
  that
• 0:26
  I
• 0:26
  know
• 0:26
  will
• 0:26
  benefit
• 0:26
  you,
• 0:27
  which
• 0:27
  is
• 0:27
  why
• 0:27
  I'm
• 0:27
  doing
• 0:28
  this.
• 0:28
  One
• 0:29
  of
• 0:29
  those
• 0:29
  people
• 0:29
  I'm
• 0:30
  really
• 0:30
  excited
• 0:31
  to
• 0:31
  have
• 0:31
  with
• 0:31
  me
• 0:31
  today.
• 0:32
  You're
• 0:32
  going
• 0:32
  to
• 0:32
  find
• 0:32
  this
• 0:33
  conversation
• 0:33
  really
• 0:34
  useful
• 0:36
  today.
• 0:37
  The
• 0:37
  guest
• 0:37
  is
• 0:38
  Scott
• 0:39
  Burn
• 0:39
  Fraser.
• 0:40
  He's
• 0:40
  a
• 0:41
  product
• 0:42
  experience
• 0:43
  expert,
• 0:43
  UX
• 0:44
  design,
• 0:44
  digital
• 0:45
  transformation,
• 0:46
  all
• 0:46
  that
• 0:46
  stuff.
• 0:46
  Hopefully
• 0:47
  I've
• 0:47
  got
• 0:47
  the
• 0:47
  jargon
• 0:48
  correct.
• 0:48
  I'll
• 0:48
  share
• 0:49
  his
• 0:49
  details
• 0:49
  at
• 0:49
  the
• 0:50
  end
• 0:50
  and
• 0:50
  in
• 0:50
  the
• 0:50
  show
• 0:50
  notes
• 0:51
  so
• 0:51
  you
• 0:51
  can
• 0:51
  get
• 0:51
  in
• 0:52
  touch
• 0:52
  with
• 0:52
  him
• 0:52
  if
• 0:52
  you
• 0:52
  want
• 0:53
  to.
• 0:53
  Anyway,
• 0:53
  he's
• 0:54
  got
• 0:54
  experience
• 0:54
  with
• 0:54
  companies
• 0:55
  like
• 0:55
  Amazon,
• 0:56
  BBC,
• 0:56
  Dazn.
• 0:58
  Are
• 0:58
  you
• 0:59
  ready
• 0:59
  to
• 0:59
  hear
• 1:00
  what
• 1:00
  he
• 1:00
  can
• 1:01
  tell
• 1:01
  you
• 1:01
  to
• 1:01
  make
• 1:01
  your
• 1:01
  product
• 1:02
  better?
• 1:03
  Let's
• 1:03
  go.
• 1:04
  So,
• 1:05
  Scott,
• 1:05
  our
• 1:06
  two
• 1:07
  worlds,
• 1:07
  product
• 1:08
  clarity
• 1:08
  and
• 1:08
  message
• 1:09
  clarity,
• 1:10
  are
• 1:10
  two
• 1:10
  of
• 1:11
  the
• 1:11
  reasons
• 1:11
  why
• 1:13
  a
• 1:13
  lot
• 1:13
  of
• 1:13
  SaaS
• 1:14
  companies
• 1:14
  succeed.
• 1:15
  Yet
• 1:16
  so
• 1:16
  many
• 1:17
  struggle
• 1:18
  with
• 1:18
  these
• 1:19
  two
• 1:19
  things.
• 1:19
  Getting
• 1:20
  the
• 1:20
  product
• 1:20
  right,
• 1:20
  getting
• 1:20
  the
• 1:21
  message
• 1:21
  right,
• 1:21
  getting
• 1:21
  the
• 1:22
  audience
• 1:22
  right,
• 1:22
  et
• 1:22
  cetera,
• 1:23
  et
• 1:23
  cetera.
• 1:24
  I
• 1:24
  call
• 1:24
  it
• 1:25
  the
• 1:25
  pressure
• 1:25
  stage.
• 1:26
  Often
• 1:26
  where
• 1:26
  that
• 1:27
  technical
• 1:27
  brilliance,
• 1:28
  that
• 1:28
  great
• 1:28
  idea,
• 1:28
  has
• 1:29
  got
• 1:29
  some
• 1:29
  product
• 1:29
  market
• 1:30
  fit,
• 1:30
  got
• 1:31
  some
• 1:31
  traction,
• 1:32
  but
• 1:33
  now
• 1:33
  they
• 1:33
  really
• 1:34
  need
• 1:34
  to
• 1:34
  make
• 1:34
  that,
• 1:35
  that
• 1:35
  sort
• 1:35
  of
• 1:35
  leap
• 1:36
  and
• 1:37
  grow.
• 1:38
  You,
• 1:39
  when
• 1:39
  we
• 1:40
  spoke,
• 1:40
  referred
• 1:41
  to
• 1:41
  a
• 1:42
  concept
• 1:42
  you
• 1:43
  called
• 1:43
  the
• 1:43
  founders
• 1:43
  blind
• 1:44
  spot.
• 1:45
  Could
• 1:46
  you
• 1:46
  tell
• 1:46
  me
• 1:46
  a
• 1:46
  bit
• 1:47
  more
• 1:47
  and
• 1:47
  everybody
• 1:48
  listening
• 1:48
  about
• 1:49
  this?
• 1:50
  Absolutely.
• 1:50
  And
• 1:50
  first
• 1:51
  off,
• 1:51
  thank
• 1:51
  you
• 1:51
  very
• 1:51
  much
• 1:51
  for
• 1:52
  having
• 1:52
  me
• 1:52
  on
• 1:52
  the
• 1:52
  podcast
• 1:53
  and
• 1:53
  for
• 1:53
  the
• 1:53
  fantastic
• 1:54
  introduction.
• 1:55
  I
• 1:55
  hope
• 1:55
  I
• 1:55
  can
• 1:55
  live
• 1:55
  up
• 1:56
  to
• 1:56
  the
• 1:56
  great
• 1:56
  words
• 1:57
  that
• 1:57
  you
• 1:57
  just
• 1:57
  said.
• 1:58
  I
• 1:58
  tried
• 1:58
  my
• 1:59
  best.
• 1:59
  Thank
• 1:59
  you.
• 2:00
  Thank
• 2:00
  you.
• 2:00
  Yeah,
• 2:01
  very
• 2:01
  much.
• 2:01
  The
• 2:02
  founders
• 2:02
  blind
• 2:02
  spot
• 2:03
  is
• 2:04
  a
• 2:04
  kind
• 2:04
  of
• 2:04
  a
• 2:04
  term
• 2:05
  I've
• 2:05
  used
• 2:05
  to
• 2:05
  cover
• 2:06
  lots
• 2:06
  of
• 2:06
  different
• 2:06
  areas
• 2:07
  that
• 2:07
  I've
• 2:07
  seen
• 2:08
  when
• 2:08
  working
• 2:08
  across
• 2:08
  lots
• 2:09
  of
• 2:09
  different
• 2:09
  organizations
• 2:10
  with
• 2:10
  lots
• 2:10
  of
• 2:10
  different
• 2:11
  founders
• 2:11
  and
• 2:11
  of
• 2:12
  all
• 2:12
  different
• 2:12
  sizes.
• 2:14
  Being
• 2:15
  a
• 2:15
  founder
• 2:15
  is
• 2:15
  incredibly
• 2:16
  difficult.
• 2:17
  There's
• 2:17
  a
• 2:17
  lot
• 2:17
  of
• 2:17
  different
• 2:17
  things
• 2:18
  you've
• 2:18
  got
• 2:18
  to
• 2:18
  take
• 2:18
  into
• 2:19
  consideration.
• 2:20
  You're
• 2:20
  launching
• 2:21
  a
• 2:21
  new
• 2:21
  product,
• 2:21
  you're
• 2:22
  taking
• 2:22
  new
• 2:22
  investment
• 2:23
  on,
• 2:23
  you're
• 2:24
  trying
• 2:24
  to
• 2:24
  understand
• 2:24
  a
• 2:25
  new
• 2:25
  space.
• 2:25
  There's,
• 2:25
  there's
• 2:26
  a
• 2:26
  lot
• 2:26
  going
• 2:26
  on
• 2:27
  and
• 2:27
  I
• 2:27
  think
• 2:28
  that
• 2:28
  can
• 2:28
  lead
• 2:28
  to
• 2:29
  very
• 2:29
  natural
• 2:30
  blind
• 2:30
  spots
• 2:31
  in
• 2:31
  what
• 2:31
  you're
• 2:31
  doing.
• 2:32
  There's
• 2:32
  a
• 2:33
  fantastic
• 2:34
  quote.
• 2:34
  Well,
• 2:35
  there's
• 2:35
  a
• 2:35
  couple
• 2:35
  of
• 2:35
  fantastic
• 2:36
  quotes
• 2:36
  actually,
• 2:36
  that
• 2:36
  kind
• 2:36
  of,
• 2:37
  that
• 2:37
  kind
• 2:37
  of
• 2:37
  dovetail
• 2:38
  onto
• 2:38
  this.
• 2:39
  Elon
• 2:40
  Musk,
• 2:40
  love
• 2:40
  him
• 2:40
  or
• 2:41
  hate
• 2:41
  him,
• 2:41
  said,
• 2:42
  you
• 2:43
  know,
• 2:43
  great
• 2:43
  Engineers
• 2:44
  can,
• 2:44
  great
• 2:45
  engineers
• 2:45
  can
• 2:45
  focus
• 2:46
  on
• 2:46
  the
• 2:47
  wrong
• 2:47
  problem
• 2:47
  and
• 2:47
  spend
• 2:48
  a
• 2:48
  great
• 2:48
  deal
• 2:48
  of
• 2:48
  time
• 2:49
  solving
• 2:49
  the
• 2:49
  wrong
• 2:49
  challenges.
• 2:51
  And
• 2:51
  on
• 2:51
  the
• 2:51
  flip
• 2:52
  side,
• 2:52
  Steve
• 2:52
  Jobs,
• 2:53
  I
• 2:53
  remember
• 2:53
  once
• 2:53
  saying,
• 2:54
  when
• 2:54
  challenges,
• 2:54
  an
• 2:55
  audience
• 2:55
  wants
• 2:57
  everything
• 2:57
  works
• 2:57
  back
• 2:57
  from
• 2:58
  customer
• 2:58
  experience
• 2:58
  and
• 2:59
  you've
• 2:59
  got
• 2:59
  to
• 2:59
  come
• 2:59
  up
• 2:59
  with
• 2:59
  the
• 3:00
  right
• 3:00
  technical
• 3:00
  solutions
• 3:01
  to
• 3:01
  solve
• 3:01
  the
• 3:02
  right
• 3:02
  customer
• 3:02
  experience
• 3:03
  challenges
• 3:03
  and
• 3:04
  those
• 3:04
  two
• 3:04
  things
• 3:04
  come
• 3:04
  in
• 3:05
  quite
• 3:05
  well
• 3:05
  together.
• 3:05
  And
• 3:06
  I
• 3:06
  think
• 3:06
  that
• 3:06
  that
• 3:07
  kind
• 3:07
  of
• 3:07
  summarizes
• 3:08
  where
• 3:08
  some
• 3:08
  of
• 3:08
  the
• 3:09
  founders
• 3:10
  blind
• 3:10
  spot
• 3:10
  can
• 3:11
  occur,
• 3:11
  which
• 3:11
  is
• 3:11
  when
• 3:12
  you
• 3:12
  start
• 3:12
  focusing
• 3:13
  on
• 3:13
  one
• 3:13
  of
• 3:13
  these
• 3:13
  two,
• 3:14
  you
• 3:14
  can
• 3:15
  be
• 3:15
  spending
• 3:15
  a
• 3:15
  lot
• 3:15
  of
• 3:15
  time
• 3:16
  and
• 3:16
  effort
• 3:16
  focusing
• 3:17
  on
• 3:17
  solving
• 3:17
  the
• 3:18
  wrong
• 3:18
  thing.
• 3:19
  There's
• 3:20
  a
• 3:20
  challenge
• 3:20
  that
• 3:20
  you
• 3:21
  see.
• 3:21
  You're
• 3:21
  putting
• 3:21
  your
• 3:22
  engineering
• 3:22
  team
• 3:22
  onto
• 3:23
  it,
• 3:23
  you're
• 3:23
  putting
• 3:23
  budget
• 3:23
  onto
• 3:24
  it.
• 3:24
  You've
• 3:24
  been
• 3:24
  blinded
• 3:25
  by
• 3:25
  the
• 3:25
  shiny
• 3:25
  lights
• 3:26
  of
• 3:26
  solving
• 3:26
  that
• 3:26
  thing
• 3:27
  and
• 3:27
  you've
• 3:27
  lost
• 3:28
  track
• 3:28
  of
• 3:28
  what
• 3:28
  your
• 3:28
  real
• 3:29
  customers
• 3:29
  are
• 3:29
  actually
• 3:29
  trying
• 3:30
  to
• 3:30
  do
• 3:30
  in
• 3:30
  the
• 3:30
  real
• 3:31
  world
• 3:31
  or
• 3:31
  whether
• 3:31
  it
• 3:31
  is
• 3:32
  actually
• 3:32
  solving
• 3:32
  a
• 3:32
  problem
• 3:33
  they
• 3:33
  will
• 3:33
  actually
• 3:34
  have.
• 3:35
  So
• 3:35
  quite
• 3:35
  often
• 3:35
  when
• 3:36
  I
• 3:36
  work
• 3:36
  with
• 3:36
  founders,
• 3:37
  some
• 3:37
  of
• 3:37
  the
• 3:37
  first
• 3:37
  questions
• 3:38
  I
• 3:38
  ask
• 3:38
  is,
• 3:39
  do
• 3:39
  you
• 3:39
  actually
• 3:39
  know
• 3:40
  the
• 3:40
  problem
• 3:40
  that
• 3:40
  you're
• 3:41
  trying
• 3:41
  to
• 3:41
  solve?
• 3:42
  Do
• 3:42
  you
• 3:42
  know
• 3:42
  who
• 3:42
  you're
• 3:43
  actually
• 3:43
  solving
• 3:43
  that
• 3:44
  for?
• 3:45
  Is
• 3:46
  what
• 3:46
  you're
• 3:46
  building
• 3:46
  actually
• 3:47
  going
• 3:47
  to
• 3:48
  solve
• 3:48
  that
• 3:48
  problem?
• 3:49
  And
• 3:50
  that
• 3:50
  often
• 3:50
  catches
• 3:50
  people
• 3:51
  off
• 3:51
  guard
• 3:51
  because
• 3:51
  they
• 3:51
  say,
• 3:51
  well,
• 3:51
  of
• 3:52
  course
• 3:52
  it
• 3:52
  is.
• 3:52
  And
• 3:52
  I
• 3:52
  say,
• 3:52
  well,
• 3:53
  do
• 3:53
  you
• 3:53
  believe
• 3:53
  it's
• 3:53
  going
• 3:54
  to
• 3:54
  solve
• 3:54
  that
• 3:54
  problem
• 3:55
  or
• 3:55
  do
• 3:55
  you
• 3:55
  know
• 3:56
  it's
• 3:56
  going
• 3:57
  to
• 3:57
  solve
• 3:57
  that
• 3:57
  problem?
• 3:57
  Because
• 3:57
  they're
• 3:58
  very
• 3:58
  different
• 3:58
  things.
• 3:59
  Do
• 3:59
  you
• 3:59
  have
• 3:59
  data
• 3:59
  that
• 4:00
  shows
• 4:00
  you
• 4:00
  that
• 4:00
  you're
• 4:01
  actually
• 4:01
  solving
• 4:01
  a
• 4:02
  problem
• 4:02
  for
• 4:02
  them?
• 4:03
  And
• 4:03
  then
• 4:04
  next
• 4:04
  is,
• 4:04
  do
• 4:05
  you
• 4:05
  believe
• 4:05
  they
• 4:05
  will
• 4:05
  actually
• 4:06
  pay
• 4:06
  to
• 4:06
  solve
• 4:06
  that
• 4:06
  problem?
• 4:07
  And
• 4:08
  many
• 4:08
  founders
• 4:09
  just
• 4:09
  haven't
• 4:09
  asked
• 4:10
  themselves
• 4:10
  those
• 4:10
  questions.
• 4:12
  They've
• 4:12
  been
• 4:12
  driving
• 4:13
  towards
• 4:14
  delivering
• 4:14
  something,
• 4:15
  but
• 4:15
  they've
• 4:15
  never
• 4:15
  asked
• 4:15
  those
• 4:16
  questions.
• 4:17
  And
• 4:17
  it
• 4:17
  becomes
• 4:18
  even
• 4:18
  more
• 4:18
  apparent
• 4:18
  when
• 4:19
  they
• 4:19
  start
• 4:19
  taking
• 4:19
  on
• 4:19
  board
• 4:20
  investment,
• 4:21
  when
• 4:21
  they
• 4:21
  start
• 4:21
  speaking
• 4:22
  to
• 4:22
  a
• 4:22
  wider
• 4:22
  group
• 4:22
  of
• 4:23
  shareholders.
• 4:23
  Pressure
• 4:24
  starts
• 4:24
  coming
• 4:24
  from
• 4:24
  elsewhere
• 4:25
  and
• 4:25
  it
• 4:25
  can
• 4:26
  really
• 4:26
  amplify
• 4:26
  this
• 4:27
  blind
• 4:27
  spot
• 4:27
  of
• 4:28
  their
• 4:28
  soul.
• 4:28
  Bought
• 4:29
  into
• 4:29
  their
• 4:29
  own
• 4:29
  vision,
• 4:30
  they
• 4:30
  forget
• 4:31
  to
• 4:31
  ask
• 4:31
  the
• 4:31
  questions
• 4:32
  that
• 4:32
  they
• 4:32
  started
• 4:33
  with.
• 4:34
  Do
• 4:34
  you
• 4:34
  think
• 4:34
  part
• 4:35
  of
• 4:35
  that's
• 4:35
  to
• 4:35
  do
• 4:35
  with
• 4:36
  like
• 4:36
  fear
• 4:37
  of
• 4:38
  hearing
• 4:38
  the
• 4:38
  inevitable
• 4:39
  that
• 4:40
  they
• 4:40
  are
• 4:41
  solving
• 4:41
  the
• 4:41
  wrong
• 4:42
  problem?
• 4:42
  Or
• 4:43
  is
• 4:44
  it
• 4:44
  often
• 4:44
  something
• 4:44
  else
• 4:45
  that
• 4:45
  kind
• 4:45
  of
• 4:46
  hinders
• 4:46
  them
• 4:46
  from
• 4:47
  doing
• 4:47
  that?
• 4:47
  Because
• 4:47
  that's
• 4:48
  the
• 4:48
  great
• 4:48
  part
• 4:48
  of
• 4:48
  MVP
• 4:49
  building
• 4:49
  and
• 4:50
  getting
• 4:51
  things
• 4:51
  out
• 4:51
  there,
• 4:51
  isn't
• 4:52
  it?
• 4:52
  I
• 4:53
  think
• 4:53
  it
• 4:53
  can
• 4:53
  be.
• 4:53
  I
• 4:53
  think
• 4:54
  it
• 4:54
  can
• 4:54
  very
• 4:54
  much
• 4:55
  be
• 4:55
  either
• 4:56
  fear
• 4:56
  that
• 4:57
  the
• 4:57
  feedback
• 4:57
  is
• 4:58
  you're
• 4:58
  solving
• 4:58
  the
• 4:58
  wrong
• 4:59
  problem.
• 4:59
  Some
• 4:59
  founders
• 4:59
  are
• 5:00
  very
• 5:00
  open
• 5:00
  to
• 5:00
  it.
• 5:00
  They're
• 5:00
  like,
• 5:01
  you're
• 5:01
  actually
• 5:01
  proved
• 5:01
  me
• 5:01
  wrong.
• 5:02
  Know,
• 5:02
  give
• 5:02
  me
• 5:02
  the,
• 5:03
  give
• 5:03
  me
• 5:03
  the
• 5:03
  data
• 5:03
  that
• 5:04
  tells
• 5:04
  me
• 5:04
  otherwise.
• 5:05
  I
• 5:05
  think
• 5:05
  it
• 5:06
  becomes
• 5:06
  more
• 5:06
  challenging
• 5:07
  when
• 5:08
  they've
• 5:08
  taken
• 5:08
  on
• 5:08
  investment.
• 5:09
  So
• 5:09
  I
• 5:09
  know
• 5:09
  we
• 5:10
  both
• 5:10
  work
• 5:10
  in
• 5:10
  a
• 5:10
  space
• 5:10
  where
• 5:11
  we
• 5:11
  quite
• 5:11
  often
• 5:11
  work
• 5:11
  with
• 5:12
  organizations
• 5:12
  where
• 5:13
  they've
• 5:13
  taken
• 5:14
  on
• 5:14
  some
• 5:14
  initial
• 5:14
  seed
• 5:14
  investment.
• 5:15
  Maybe
• 5:15
  they're
• 5:15
  working
• 5:16
  towards
• 5:16
  a
• 5:16
  Series
• 5:16
  A,
• 5:17
  they've
• 5:17
  sold
• 5:17
  one
• 5:18
  dream
• 5:18
  and
• 5:18
  now
• 5:19
  they're
• 5:19
  trying
• 5:19
  to
• 5:19
  drive
• 5:19
  towards
• 5:20
  that
• 5:20
  dream.
• 5:20
  And
• 5:21
  it's
• 5:21
  one
• 5:21
  thing
• 5:21
  to
• 5:21
  admit
• 5:22
  to
• 5:22
  themselves
• 5:23
  that
• 5:23
  they
• 5:23
  were
• 5:23
  wrong,
• 5:24
  but
• 5:24
  it's
• 5:24
  a
• 5:24
  different
• 5:24
  thing
• 5:25
  to
• 5:25
  then
• 5:25
  have
• 5:25
  to
• 5:25
  put
• 5:25
  that
• 5:25
  into
• 5:26
  an
• 5:26
  email
• 5:26
  and
• 5:26
  do
• 5:26
  a
• 5:26
  shareholder
• 5:27
  update
• 5:27
  to
• 5:27
  tell
• 5:27
  you
• 5:28
  that
• 5:28
  you
• 5:28
  were
• 5:28
  wrong
• 5:28
  and
• 5:28
  you're
• 5:29
  having
• 5:29
  to
• 5:29
  change
• 5:29
  direction.
• 5:30
  So
• 5:30
  I
• 5:31
  think
• 5:31
  there's.
• 5:31
  This
• 5:31
  part
• 5:31
  of
• 5:31
  it
• 5:32
  is
• 5:32
  just
• 5:34
  fear
• 5:34
  that
• 5:34
  they
• 5:34
  will
• 5:35
  be
• 5:35
  told
• 5:35
  that
• 5:35
  they're
• 5:35
  wrong
• 5:35
  or
• 5:35
  they're
• 5:36
  going
• 5:36
  to
• 5:36
  have
• 5:36
  to
• 5:36
  put
• 5:36
  more
• 5:36
  effort
• 5:36
  into
• 5:37
  resolving
• 5:37
  the
• 5:37
  problem
• 5:39
  and
• 5:39
  fear
• 5:39
  of
• 5:39
  just
• 5:40
  slowing
• 5:40
  down
• 5:40
  delivery.
• 5:41
  You
• 5:41
  know,
• 5:41
  we
• 5:41
  were,
• 5:42
  we
• 5:42
  were
• 5:42
  trying
• 5:42
  to,
• 5:42
  we
• 5:43
  were
• 5:43
  trying
• 5:43
  to
• 5:43
  fix
• 5:43
  this
• 5:44
  one
• 5:44
  thing
• 5:44
  and
• 5:44
  build
• 5:44
  this
• 5:45
  one
• 5:45
  thing.
• 5:45
  Now
• 5:45
  we're
• 5:46
  going
• 5:46
  to
• 5:46
  have
• 5:46
  to
• 5:46
  slow
• 5:46
  down
• 5:47
  and
• 5:47
  do
• 5:47
  something
• 5:47
  slightly
• 5:48
  different.
• 5:49
  There
• 5:49
  is
• 5:49
  a,
• 5:50
  there
• 5:50
  is
• 5:50
  a
• 5:50
  nervousness
• 5:51
  around
• 5:51
  that.
• 5:51
  So
• 5:52
  you
• 5:52
  touched
• 5:52
  on
• 5:52
  this
• 5:53
  idea
• 5:53
  that
• 5:54
  the
• 5:54
  founder,
• 5:55
  you
• 5:55
  know,
• 5:55
  we,
• 5:56
  as
• 5:56
  you
• 5:56
  said,
• 5:57
  we
• 5:57
  deal
• 5:57
  with
• 5:57
  very
• 5:58
  similar
• 5:58
  people.
• 5:59
  So
• 5:59
  those
• 5:59
  listening
• 6:00
  or
• 6:00
  watching,
• 6:01
  if
• 6:01
  you're
• 6:02
  a
• 6:02
  founder
• 6:02
  and
• 6:02
  you're
• 6:03
  kind
• 6:03
  of
• 6:03
  in
• 6:03
  that
• 6:04
  stage
• 6:04
  where
• 6:05
  you've
• 6:05
  had
• 6:05
  a
• 6:05
  great
• 6:05
  idea,
• 6:06
  you've
• 6:06
  got
• 6:06
  a
• 6:07
  lot
• 6:07
  of
• 6:07
  buzz,
• 6:07
  you've
• 6:07
  got
• 6:08
  some
• 6:08
  investment
• 6:08
  now,
• 6:09
  and
• 6:10
  that
• 6:10
  pressure
• 6:11
  kicks
• 6:11
  in,
• 6:12
  could
• 6:12
  you
• 6:12
  illustrate
• 6:13
  perhaps
• 6:15
  a
• 6:15
  way
• 6:15
  that
• 6:16
  a
• 6:16
  founder
• 6:16
  could.
• 6:18
  Because
• 6:18
  I
• 6:18
  come
• 6:18
  across
• 6:19
  it
• 6:19
  quite
• 6:19
  often
• 6:19
  where,
• 6:21
  for
• 6:21
  example,
• 6:22
  a
• 6:22
  team
• 6:22
  is
• 6:23
  really
• 6:23
  excited
• 6:23
  about
• 6:24
  building
• 6:24
  a
• 6:25
  thing.
• 6:25
  Right.
• 6:26
  We
• 6:26
  all
• 6:26
  get
• 6:26
  excited
• 6:26
  about
• 6:27
  building
• 6:27
  a
• 6:27
  thing.
• 6:28
  It's
• 6:29
  great
• 6:29
  fun
• 6:29
  building
• 6:29
  a
• 6:29
  thing.
• 6:30
  Building
• 6:30
  a
• 6:30
  thing
• 6:31
  is
• 6:31
  fun.
• 6:31
  It
• 6:31
  starts
• 6:32
  with
• 6:32
  Legos
• 6:32
  and
• 6:32
  Scaletric,
• 6:33
  but
• 6:34
  inevitably
• 6:36
  you
• 6:36
  get
• 6:36
  to
• 6:37
  a
• 6:37
  point
• 6:37
  where
• 6:38
  I
• 6:38
  guess
• 6:38
  the
• 6:38
  team
• 6:40
  is
• 6:41
  definitely
• 6:43
  not
• 6:44
  aligned
• 6:44
  with
• 6:45
  where
• 6:46
  the
• 6:46
  marketer
• 6:46
  is
• 6:47
  at
• 6:47
  or
• 6:47
  perhaps
• 6:48
  where
• 6:48
  the
• 6:48
  user
• 6:49
  is
• 6:49
  at.
• 6:50
  If
• 6:50
  you
• 6:50
  were
• 6:50
  thrown
• 6:51
  into
• 6:51
  that
• 6:51
  situation
• 6:52
  with
• 6:52
  the
• 6:52
  founder.
• 6:53
  So,
• 6:53
  founder,
• 6:53
  if
• 6:53
  you're
• 6:53
  listening,
• 6:55
  how
• 6:55
  would
• 6:55
  you
• 6:57
  help
• 6:58
  them
• 6:58
  pivot
• 6:59
  from
• 6:59
  kind
• 6:59
  of
• 7:00
  like
• 7:00
  feature
• 7:00
  building
• 7:01
  to
• 7:02
  focusing
• 7:03
  on
• 7:04
  the
• 7:04
  user
• 7:05
  better?
• 7:05
  Yeah,
• 7:06
  the
• 7:06
  first
• 7:06
  thing
• 7:06
  you
• 7:07
  always
• 7:07
  do
• 7:07
  is
• 7:08
  one,
• 7:08
  find
• 7:09
  out
• 7:09
  how
• 7:10
  mature
• 7:10
  the
• 7:10
  founder
• 7:11
  is
• 7:11
  in
• 7:11
  terms
• 7:11
  of
• 7:11
  thinking
• 7:12
  about
• 7:12
  outcome
• 7:13
  delivery.
• 7:14
  And
• 7:14
  when
• 7:14
  I
• 7:14
  say
• 7:15
  outcomes,
• 7:15
  I
• 7:15
  don't
• 7:15
  mean
• 7:16
  they
• 7:16
  built
• 7:17
  the
• 7:17
  thing.
• 7:17
  I
• 7:18
  mean
• 7:18
  they're
• 7:19
  looking
• 7:19
  towards
• 7:20
  changing
• 7:20
  behavior,
• 7:21
  you
• 7:21
  know,
• 7:21
  so
• 7:22
  they're
• 7:22
  looking
• 7:22
  towards
• 7:23
  delivering
• 7:23
  a
• 7:24
  solution
• 7:24
  that
• 7:25
  changes
• 7:25
  the
• 7:25
  behavior
• 7:26
  in
• 7:26
  the
• 7:26
  user
• 7:26
  or
• 7:27
  the
• 7:27
  end
• 7:27
  customer
• 7:28
  and
• 7:28
  how,
• 7:29
  how
• 7:29
  mature
• 7:30
  they
• 7:30
  are
• 7:30
  in
• 7:30
  terms
• 7:30
  of
• 7:31
  measuring
• 7:31
  that
• 7:32
  and
• 7:32
  working
• 7:32
  backwards
• 7:33
  from
• 7:33
  that.
• 7:33
  So
• 7:33
  to
• 7:34
  go
• 7:34
  back
• 7:34
  to
• 7:34
  Steve
• 7:34
  Jobs,
• 7:35
  quote,
• 7:36
  he's
• 7:36
  looking
• 7:36
  at
• 7:36
  how
• 7:37
  to
• 7:37
  create
• 7:37
  the
• 7:37
  best
• 7:37
  customer
• 7:38
  experience
• 7:40
  the
• 7:40
  focus
• 7:41
  on
• 7:41
  that.
• 7:41
  And
• 7:41
  in
• 7:42
  order
• 7:42
  to
• 7:42
  do
• 7:42
  that,
• 7:42
  you
• 7:42
  have
• 7:42
  to
• 7:43
  understand
• 7:44
  what
• 7:44
  behavior
• 7:45
  you're
• 7:45
  trying
• 7:45
  to
• 7:46
  shift
• 7:46
  in
• 7:46
  that
• 7:47
  end
• 7:47
  customer.
• 7:47
  So
• 7:48
  do
• 7:48
  they
• 7:48
  even
• 7:48
  understand
• 7:48
  what
• 7:49
  that
• 7:49
  is
• 7:49
  and,
• 7:49
  or
• 7:50
  are
• 7:50
  they
• 7:50
  just
• 7:50
  actually
• 7:50
  chasing
• 7:51
  to
• 7:51
  deliver
• 7:51
  the
• 7:51
  thing?
• 7:53
  Once
• 7:53
  you
• 7:53
  understand
• 7:54
  that,
• 7:54
  you
• 7:54
  can
• 7:54
  start
• 7:55
  asking
• 7:55
  the
• 7:55
  right
• 7:55
  types
• 7:55
  of
• 7:56
  questions.
• 7:57
  So
• 7:57
  if
• 7:57
  you
• 7:57
  understand
• 7:58
  the
• 7:58
  outcome
• 7:58
  that
• 7:59
  you're
• 7:59
  trying
• 7:59
  to
• 7:59
  drive,
• 8:00
  and
• 8:00
  that
• 8:00
  outcome
• 8:01
  could
• 8:01
  be
• 8:01
  that
• 8:01
  you're
• 8:01
  trying
• 8:02
  to
• 8:02
  get
• 8:02
  people
• 8:02
  to
• 8:02
  watch
• 8:03
  a
• 8:03
  piece
• 8:03
  of
• 8:03
  video
• 8:03
  twice
• 8:04
  a
• 8:04
  week,
• 8:04
  or
• 8:04
  it
• 8:04
  could
• 8:04
  be,
• 8:04
  you
• 8:04
  know,
• 8:05
  let's
• 8:05
  pick
• 8:05
  something
• 8:05
  quite
• 8:06
  simple
• 8:06
  like
• 8:06
  that.
• 8:08
  What
• 8:08
  type
• 8:08
  of
• 8:09
  experience
• 8:09
  are
• 8:09
  they
• 8:10
  focusing
• 8:10
  on
• 8:10
  there?
• 8:11
  Then
• 8:11
  what,
• 8:12
  what
• 8:12
  within
• 8:13
  their
• 8:13
  roadmap
• 8:13
  is
• 8:14
  working
• 8:14
  towards
• 8:15
  that
• 8:15
  particular,
• 8:15
  particular
• 8:15
  outcome
• 8:16
  and
• 8:16
  we
• 8:16
  can
• 8:16
  start
• 8:17
  to
• 8:17
  have
• 8:17
  honest
• 8:17
  conversations
• 8:18
  about
• 8:18
  where
• 8:18
  they're
• 8:19
  actually
• 8:19
  devoting
• 8:20
  their
• 8:20
  efforts
• 8:20
  on
• 8:21
  that
• 8:21
  type
• 8:21
  of
• 8:21
  work.
• 8:22
  And
• 8:22
  that
• 8:22
  starts
• 8:22
  materializing
• 8:23
  as,
• 8:23
  you
• 8:24
  know,
• 8:24
  very
• 8:24
  simple
• 8:25
  full
• 8:26
  life
• 8:26
  understandings
• 8:27
  of
• 8:27
  the
• 8:27
  full
• 8:27
  life
• 8:27
  cycle.
• 8:28
  As
• 8:28
  a
• 8:28
  customer,
• 8:28
  you
• 8:29
  can
• 8:29
  start
• 8:29
  creating
• 8:30
  diagrams
• 8:30
  that
• 8:31
  explains
• 8:31
  where
• 8:31
  a
• 8:31
  customer
• 8:32
  will
• 8:32
  be
• 8:32
  in
• 8:32
  any,
• 8:33
  any
• 8:33
  given
• 8:33
  point
• 8:34
  in
• 8:34
  their
• 8:34
  journey.
• 8:34
  4
• 8:35
  User
• 8:35
  Journey
• 8:35
  Maps
• 8:36
  to
• 8:36
  understand,
• 8:37
  you
• 8:37
  know,
• 8:37
  where
• 8:37
  a
• 8:37
  customer
• 8:38
  would
• 8:38
  be,
• 8:39
  what
• 8:40
  stage
• 8:40
  of
• 8:41
  the
• 8:41
  product,
• 8:41
  ownership
• 8:42
  of
• 8:42
  the
• 8:42
  product,
• 8:43
  usage
• 8:43
  they're
• 8:43
  actually
• 8:44
  at,
• 8:44
  and
• 8:44
  then
• 8:44
  work
• 8:45
  backwards.
• 8:46
  So
• 8:46
  from
• 8:46
  understanding
• 8:47
  that,
• 8:47
  you
• 8:47
  can
• 8:47
  start
• 8:47
  to
• 8:47
  guide
• 8:47
  them
• 8:48
  and
• 8:48
  say,
• 8:48
  well,
• 8:48
  this
• 8:48
  is
• 8:48
  what
• 8:48
  you're
• 8:48
  currently
• 8:49
  building,
• 8:51
  this
• 8:51
  is
• 8:51
  the
• 8:51
  outcome
• 8:52
  you're
• 8:52
  trying
• 8:52
  to
• 8:52
  drive
• 8:53
  towards.
• 8:53
  Do
• 8:54
  these
• 8:54
  two
• 8:54
  things
• 8:54
  connect
• 8:55
  or
• 8:55
  is
• 8:55
  it
• 8:55
  just
• 8:55
  an
• 8:56
  assumption?
• 8:57
  Are
• 8:57
  we
• 8:57
  measuring
• 8:58
  that
• 8:58
  outcome
• 8:58
  currently
• 8:59
  and
• 8:59
  do
• 8:59
  we
• 8:59
  have
• 9:00
  a
• 9:00
  good
• 9:00
  understanding
• 9:01
  of
• 9:03
  where
• 9:03
  our
• 9:03
  customers
• 9:04
  currently
• 9:04
  are?
• 9:04
  Now,
• 9:04
  if
• 9:05
  you've
• 9:05
  not
• 9:05
  launched
• 9:05
  your
• 9:05
  product
• 9:05
  yet,
• 9:06
  there's
• 9:06
  a
• 9:06
  degree
• 9:06
  of
• 9:06
  assumptions
• 9:07
  there.
• 9:07
  If
• 9:07
  you
• 9:08
  have,
• 9:08
  are
• 9:09
  you
• 9:09
  measuring
• 9:09
  it?
• 9:09
  So
• 9:10
  to
• 9:10
  use
• 9:10
  the
• 9:10
  example
• 9:11
  of
• 9:11
  a
• 9:11
  customer's
• 9:12
  watching
• 9:12
  a
• 9:12
  piece
• 9:12
  of
• 9:12
  content
• 9:13
  a
• 9:13
  couple
• 9:13
  of
• 9:13
  times
• 9:13
  a
• 9:13
  week,
• 9:14
  do
• 9:14
  you
• 9:15
  know
• 9:15
  what
• 9:15
  content
• 9:15
  they're
• 9:15
  watching?
• 9:16
  Do
• 9:16
  you
• 9:16
  know
• 9:16
  how
• 9:16
  often
• 9:17
  they're
• 9:17
  watching
• 9:17
  it?
• 9:17
  Do
• 9:17
  you
• 9:18
  know
• 9:18
  what
• 9:18
  the
• 9:18
  likelihood
• 9:19
  is
• 9:19
  that
• 9:19
  they're
• 9:19
  going
• 9:19
  to
• 9:19
  watch
• 9:20
  a
• 9:20
  piece
• 9:20
  of
• 9:20
  content
• 9:20
  like
• 9:21
  that
• 9:21
  again
• 9:21
  the
• 9:21
  following
• 9:21
  week?
• 9:22
  Can
• 9:22
  you
• 9:23
  predict
• 9:23
  if
• 9:23
  they're
• 9:24
  going
• 9:24
  to
• 9:24
  stop
• 9:25
  using
• 9:25
  your
• 9:25
  product
• 9:26
  the
• 9:26
  following
• 9:26
  week?
• 9:27
  Because
• 9:27
  you
• 9:27
  need
• 9:27
  quite
• 9:27
  a
• 9:27
  bit
• 9:28
  of
• 9:28
  data
• 9:28
  to
• 9:28
  do
• 9:28
  that.
• 9:29
  When
• 9:30
  you
• 9:30
  start
• 9:30
  to
• 9:30
  have
• 9:30
  that
• 9:30
  understanding,
• 9:31
  when
• 9:31
  you
• 9:32
  start
• 9:32
  to
• 9:32
  have
• 9:32
  agreed
• 9:32
  on
• 9:33
  those
• 9:33
  outcomes
• 9:33
  and
• 9:33
  the
• 9:34
  measures
• 9:34
  for
• 9:34
  those
• 9:34
  outcomes,
• 9:35
  it
• 9:35
  starts
• 9:36
  to
• 9:36
  become
• 9:36
  really
• 9:36
  clear
• 9:36
  whether
• 9:37
  what
• 9:37
  you're
• 9:37
  building
• 9:37
  is
• 9:38
  driving
• 9:38
  people
• 9:38
  in
• 9:38
  the
• 9:38
  right
• 9:39
  direction.
• 9:39
  I
• 9:40
  quite
• 9:40
  often
• 9:40
  see
• 9:40
  this
• 9:40
  aha
• 9:41
  moment
• 9:41
  where
• 9:41
  you
• 9:42
  get
• 9:42
  a
• 9:42
  team
• 9:42
  together
• 9:42
  and
• 9:43
  you've
• 9:43
  agreed
• 9:43
  on
• 9:44
  the
• 9:44
  outcome.
• 9:44
  You
• 9:44
  know,
• 9:44
  this
• 9:45
  is
• 9:45
  what
• 9:45
  we
• 9:45
  want
• 9:45
  people
• 9:45
  to
• 9:46
  do,
• 9:46
  is
• 9:46
  like,
• 9:46
  do
• 9:47
  we
• 9:47
  all
• 9:47
  agree
• 9:47
  this
• 9:47
  is
• 9:47
  what
• 9:48
  we
• 9:48
  want
• 9:48
  people
• 9:48
  to
• 9:48
  do?
• 9:49
  Fantastic.
• 9:49
  Does
• 9:50
  everybody
• 9:50
  agree
• 9:50
  to
• 9:50
  that?
• 9:51
  Yes.
• 9:51
  Why
• 9:52
  are
• 9:52
  we
• 9:52
  building
• 9:52
  that
• 9:52
  then?
• 9:53
  And
• 9:53
  you'll
• 9:53
  see
• 9:54
  people,
• 9:54
  literally
• 9:54
  this
• 9:55
  penny
• 9:55
  drop
• 9:55
  moment,
• 9:55
  people
• 9:56
  go,
• 9:56
  we
• 9:56
  don't
• 9:57
  know
• 9:58
  because
• 9:58
  it
• 9:58
  felt
• 9:59
  like
• 9:59
  the
• 9:59
  right
• 9:59
  thing
• 9:59
  to
• 9:59
  build,
• 10:00
  or
• 10:00
  we
• 10:01
  were
• 10:01
  putting
• 10:01
  this
• 10:01
  process
• 10:02
  in
• 10:02
  place
• 10:02
  because
• 10:03
  it
• 10:03
  felt
• 10:03
  like
• 10:03
  the
• 10:03
  right
• 10:04
  process
• 10:04
  to
• 10:04
  put
• 10:04
  in
• 10:04
  place.
• 10:05
  But
• 10:05
  once
• 10:05
  you've
• 10:06
  agreed
• 10:06
  that
• 10:06
  there's
• 10:06
  a,
• 10:07
  an
• 10:07
  outcome
• 10:08
  you're
• 10:08
  driving
• 10:08
  towards,
• 10:09
  that
• 10:10
  can
• 10:10
  often
• 10:10
  just
• 10:10
  fall
• 10:11
  to
• 10:11
  pieces.
• 10:11
  And
• 10:12
  it
• 10:12
  does
• 10:12
  create
• 10:12
  that
• 10:13
  kind
• 10:13
  of
• 10:13
  aha
• 10:13
  moment
• 10:14
  for
• 10:14
  a
• 10:14
  lot
• 10:14
  of
• 10:14
  people,.
• 10:14
  For
• 10:15
  that
• 10:15
  founder
• 10:16
  who
• 10:17
  perhaps
• 10:17
  has
• 10:17
  got
• 10:18
  that
• 10:18
  bit
• 10:18
  of
• 10:18
  traction,
• 10:18
  got
• 10:19
  that
• 10:19
  funding,
• 10:20
  got
• 10:20
  going.
• 10:21
  Just
• 10:21
  to
• 10:22
  summarize
• 10:22
  what
• 10:22
  you
• 10:22
  said,
• 10:23
  and
• 10:23
  I
• 10:24
  think
• 10:24
  I
• 10:24
  understand
• 10:25
  it,
• 10:25
  correct
• 10:25
  me
• 10:25
  if
• 10:25
  I'm
• 10:26
  wrong,
• 10:26
  the
• 10:27
  idea
• 10:27
  is
• 10:27
  kind
• 10:28
  of
• 10:28
  in
• 10:28
  my
• 10:29
  brain.
• 10:29
  I
• 10:29
  thought,
• 10:30
  well,
• 10:30
  past,
• 10:30
  present,
• 10:31
  future,
• 10:31
  right?
• 10:32
  So
• 10:32
  past.
• 10:33
  What
• 10:33
  have
• 10:33
  they
• 10:34
  done
• 10:34
  that
• 10:35
  demonstrates
• 10:36
  is
• 10:36
  in
• 10:36
  the
• 10:36
  user,
• 10:37
  what
• 10:37
  have
• 10:37
  they
• 10:37
  done
• 10:38
  that
• 10:38
  demonstrates
• 10:39
  that
• 10:39
  we
• 10:40
  are
• 10:41
  achieving
• 10:41
  that
• 10:41
  outcome
• 10:42
  in
• 10:43
  the
• 10:43
  present?
• 10:43
  What
• 10:44
  are
• 10:44
  we
• 10:44
  doing
• 10:44
  now?
• 10:45
  And
• 10:45
  obviously
• 10:46
  into
• 10:46
  the
• 10:46
  future.
• 10:46
  You
• 10:47
  talked
• 10:47
  about
• 10:47
  in
• 10:48
  that
• 10:49
  example
• 10:49
  of
• 10:49
  watching
• 10:50
  video,
• 10:50
  thinking
• 10:51
  about
• 10:51
  how
• 10:52
  they're
• 10:52
  going
• 10:52
  to
• 10:52
  use
• 10:52
  it
• 10:52
  in
• 10:52
  the
• 10:53
  future,
• 10:53
  you
• 10:53
  know,
• 10:53
  are
• 10:53
  they
• 10:53
  going
• 10:54
  to
• 10:54
  watch
• 10:54
  it
• 10:54
  in
• 10:54
  the
• 10:54
  next
• 10:54
  two
• 10:55
  weeks?
• 10:55
  Or
• 10:56
  how
• 10:56
  do
• 10:56
  we
• 10:56
  drive
• 10:57
  that
• 10:57
  behavior?
• 10:59
  Is
• 10:59
  that
• 10:59
  effectively
• 11:00
  what
• 11:00
  you're
• 11:00
  saying?
• 11:00
  If
• 11:00
  there's
• 11:01
  a
• 11:01
  simple.
• 11:02
  Maybe
• 11:02
  I've
• 11:03
  oversimplified
• 11:04
  it
• 11:04
  a
• 11:04
  little,
• 11:04
  but
• 11:05
  the
• 11:05
  way
• 11:05
  you
• 11:05
  articulated
• 11:06
  that
• 11:06
  was
• 11:06
  really,
• 11:07
  really
• 11:07
  simple.
• 11:08
  And
• 11:08
  I
• 11:08
  think
• 11:08
  that's
• 11:09
  the
• 11:09
  thing.
• 11:09
  I
• 11:09
  think
• 11:10
  it
• 11:10
  is
• 11:10
  quite
• 11:10
  simple.
• 11:11
  And
• 11:11
  I
• 11:11
  think
• 11:12
  this
• 11:12
  is
• 11:12
  a
• 11:12
  surprise.
• 11:13
  A
• 11:13
  lot
• 11:13
  of
• 11:13
  founders,
• 11:14
  a
• 11:14
  lot
• 11:14
  of
• 11:14
  the
• 11:14
  teams
• 11:14
  that
• 11:14
  I
• 11:15
  work
• 11:15
  with
• 11:15
  are
• 11:15
  normally
• 11:15
  quite
• 11:16
  surprised
• 11:16
  that
• 11:16
  some
• 11:16
  of
• 11:16
  it
• 11:17
  feels
• 11:17
  quite
• 11:18
  obvious
• 11:18
  when
• 11:18
  you
• 11:18
  actually
• 11:19
  sit
• 11:19
  down
• 11:19
  and
• 11:19
  do
• 11:19
  it.
• 11:21
  So
• 11:21
  when
• 11:21
  you
• 11:21
  actually
• 11:21
  sit
• 11:21
  down
• 11:22
  and
• 11:22
  say,
• 11:23
  what
• 11:23
  behavior
• 11:23
  do
• 11:24
  we
• 11:24
  want
• 11:24
  to
• 11:24
  see
• 11:25
  shift
• 11:25
  in
• 11:26
  our
• 11:26
  users?
• 11:28
  And
• 11:28
  let's
• 11:28
  use
• 11:28
  the
• 11:28
  video
• 11:29
  example
• 11:29
  again,
• 11:29
  let's
• 11:29
  say,
• 11:30
  well,
• 11:30
  actually,
• 11:30
  typically
• 11:31
  we're
• 11:31
  seeing
• 11:31
  users
• 11:31
  watching
• 11:32
  one
• 11:32
  piece
• 11:32
  of
• 11:32
  content.
• 11:33
  We
• 11:33
  want
• 11:33
  them
• 11:33
  to
• 11:33
  watch
• 11:33
  two
• 11:34
  pieces
• 11:34
  of
• 11:34
  content.
• 11:34
  Well,
• 11:35
  do
• 11:35
  we
• 11:35
  understand
• 11:35
  the
• 11:36
  motivations
• 11:36
  for
• 11:36
  them
• 11:36
  to
• 11:37
  watch
• 11:37
  a
• 11:37
  piece
• 11:37
  of
• 11:37
  content?
• 11:37
  Well,
• 11:38
  yes,
• 11:38
  it
• 11:38
  has
• 11:38
  to
• 11:38
  be
• 11:38
  something
• 11:39
  they're
• 11:39
  interested
• 11:39
  in.
• 11:40
  You
• 11:40
  start
• 11:40
  unpicking
• 11:40
  it,
• 11:41
  it's
• 11:41
  all
• 11:41
  obvious
• 11:41
  stuff.
• 11:42
  And
• 11:42
  everyone
• 11:42
  in
• 11:42
  the
• 11:42
  room
• 11:42
  goes,
• 11:43
  this
• 11:43
  is
• 11:43
  obvious
• 11:43
  stuff.
• 11:44
  And
• 11:44
  then
• 11:44
  you
• 11:44
  say,
• 11:45
  well,
• 11:46
  the
• 11:46
  features
• 11:46
  on
• 11:46
  the
• 11:47
  roadmap
• 11:47
  that
• 11:47
  we're
• 11:47
  working
• 11:48
  towards,
• 11:48
  are
• 11:48
  they
• 11:48
  working
• 11:49
  towards
• 11:49
  that?
• 11:49
  The
• 11:50
  marketing
• 11:50
  we're
• 11:50
  doing,
• 11:51
  is
• 11:51
  it
• 11:51
  giving
• 11:51
  the
• 11:51
  right
• 11:52
  communications,
• 11:52
  working
• 11:53
  towards
• 11:53
  that
• 11:53
  piece?
• 11:54
  None
• 11:54
  of
• 11:55
  it
• 11:55
  feels
• 11:55
  complicated
• 11:56
  when
• 11:56
  you
• 11:56
  have
• 11:56
  that
• 11:56
  conversation.
• 11:58
  I
• 11:58
  think
• 11:58
  the
• 11:58
  surprising
• 11:59
  thing
• 11:59
  is
• 11:59
  often
• 12:00
  people
• 12:00
  just
• 12:00
  haven't
• 12:01
  had
• 12:01
  that
• 12:01
  conversation
• 12:02
  in
• 12:02
  that
• 12:02
  right
• 12:02
  frame.
• 12:03
  They've
• 12:04
  been
• 12:04
  looking
• 12:04
  at
• 12:04
  the
• 12:04
  delivery
• 12:05
  of
• 12:05
  the
• 12:05
  thing,
• 12:06
  of
• 12:06
  the
• 12:06
  shiny
• 12:06
  thing,
• 12:07
  the
• 12:07
  communication
• 12:08
  of
• 12:08
  the
• 12:08
  thing,
• 12:08
  or
• 12:08
  the
• 12:09
  putting
• 12:09
  together
• 12:09
  of
• 12:10
  the
• 12:10
  process.
• 12:11
  I've
• 12:11
  very
• 12:11
  rarely
• 12:12
  sat
• 12:12
  down
• 12:12
  and
• 12:12
  said,
• 12:13
  well,
• 12:13
  Actually,
• 12:13
  the
• 12:13
  behavior
• 12:14
  we
• 12:14
  want
• 12:14
  to
• 12:14
  shift
• 12:15
  is
• 12:15
  xyz.
• 12:16
  Do
• 12:17
  we
• 12:17
  agree
• 12:17
  on
• 12:17
  that?
• 12:17
  Yes.
• 12:19
  Why
• 12:19
  are
• 12:19
  we
• 12:19
  doing
• 12:19
  all
• 12:20
  this
• 12:20
  then?
• 12:20
  It's
• 12:20
  a
• 12:21
  brutal
• 12:23
  but
• 12:23
  important
• 12:24
  part
• 12:24
  of
• 12:24
  the
• 12:24
  process,
• 12:25
  I.
• 12:25
  E.
• 12:26
  I'm
• 12:26
  sure
• 12:27
  you
• 12:27
  found
• 12:28
  some
• 12:28
  examples
• 12:29
  along
• 12:29
  the
• 12:29
  way
• 12:30
  where
• 12:30
  people
• 12:31
  have
• 12:32
  perhaps
• 12:33
  charted
• 12:33
  the
• 12:33
  wrong
• 12:34
  path,
• 12:34
  got
• 12:34
  very
• 12:34
  excited
• 12:35
  about
• 12:35
  working
• 12:35
  on
• 12:35
  a
• 12:36
  particular
• 12:36
  feature.
• 12:36
  You
• 12:37
  know,
• 12:37
  technical
• 12:37
  founders
• 12:38
  especially.
• 12:38
  Of
• 12:38
  course,
• 12:39
  it's
• 12:39
  super
• 12:39
  exciting
• 12:40
  building
• 12:40
  that
• 12:40
  Letro,
• 12:41
  that,
• 12:41
  that
• 12:42
  Lego,
• 12:43
  I
• 12:43
  combine
• 12:43
  them.
• 12:44
  The
• 12:44
  new
• 12:44
  product
• 12:45
  is
• 12:45
  called
• 12:45
  Letro,
• 12:47
  Lego
• 12:47
  Scaletric.
• 12:48
  The
• 12:48
  interesting
• 12:49
  point,
• 12:49
  I
• 12:50
  guess
• 12:50
  is,
• 12:51
  you
• 12:51
  know,
• 12:51
  touching
• 12:52
  on
• 12:53
  one
• 12:53
  of
• 12:53
  the
• 12:53
  points
• 12:53
  you
• 12:54
  made
• 12:54
  earlier,
• 12:54
  which
• 12:54
  is
• 12:55
  kind
• 12:55
  of
• 12:55
  stuck
• 12:55
  in
• 12:56
  my
• 12:56
  head
• 12:56
  a
• 12:56
  little
• 12:56
  bit,
• 12:57
  is
• 12:58
  I
• 12:58
  believe
• 12:58
  that
• 12:58
  Steve
• 12:59
  Jobs
• 12:59
  quote
• 13:00
  where
• 13:01
  he
• 13:01
  was
• 13:01
  on
• 13:02
  stage
• 13:02
  at
• 13:02
  a
• 13:02
  keynote
• 13:04
  and
• 13:04
  I
• 13:05
  believe
• 13:05
  there
• 13:05
  was
• 13:06
  a
• 13:06
  chap
• 13:06
  who
• 13:06
  raised
• 13:07
  his
• 13:07
  hand
• 13:07
  and
• 13:07
  said,
• 13:08
  lotus
• 13:08
  Notes
• 13:09
  has
• 13:09
  this
• 13:09
  feature.
• 13:10
  Why
• 13:10
  aren't
• 13:10
  we
• 13:11
  incorporating
• 13:11
  that
• 13:12
  specific,
• 13:13
  very
• 13:14
  specific
• 13:14
  use
• 13:14
  case
• 13:15
  feature
• 13:15
  into
• 13:16
  something?
• 13:16
  Yeah,
• 13:17
  it
• 13:17
  was
• 13:17
  something
• 13:18
  very
• 13:18
  specific
• 13:18
  on
• 13:18
  that.
• 13:18
  I
• 13:19
  think
• 13:19
  it
• 13:20
  was
• 13:20
  something
• 13:20
  to
• 13:20
  do
• 13:20
  with
• 13:21
  the
• 13:21
  Java
• 13:21
  language
• 13:21
  that
• 13:21
  we
• 13:22
  use
• 13:22
  or
• 13:22
  the
• 13:22
  Java
• 13:22
  library
• 13:23
  that
• 13:23
  we're
• 13:23
  using,
• 13:23
  specific
• 13:24
  features
• 13:24
  that,
• 13:25
  that
• 13:25
  that
• 13:25
  particular
• 13:26
  app
• 13:26
  had
• 13:27
  that
• 13:28
  Apple
• 13:28
  at
• 13:28
  the
• 13:29
  time
• 13:29
  were
• 13:29
  not
• 13:29
  particularly
• 13:30
  focusing
• 13:30
  on.
• 13:31
  And
• 13:31
  Steve
• 13:32
  Jobs's
• 13:32
  answer
• 13:33
  was
• 13:33
  effectively
• 13:34
  to
• 13:34
  say,
• 13:36
  we're
• 13:36
  not
• 13:36
  doing
• 13:37
  that
• 13:37
  because
• 13:37
  it's
• 13:38
  not
• 13:38
  going
• 13:38
  to
• 13:38
  improve
• 13:38
  the
• 13:39
  customer
• 13:39
  experience.
• 13:40
  You
• 13:40
  know,
• 13:40
  to
• 13:40
  paraphrase
• 13:41
  what
• 13:41
  he
• 13:41
  said,
• 13:41
  he
• 13:41
  said,
• 13:41
  we're
• 13:42
  looking
• 13:42
  at
• 13:42
  the
• 13:42
  end
• 13:43
  customer
• 13:43
  experience.
• 13:44
  We're
• 13:44
  looking
• 13:44
  at
• 13:44
  what,
• 13:45
  again,
• 13:45
  this
• 13:45
  goes
• 13:46
  back
• 13:46
  to
• 13:46
  the
• 13:46
  behavior.
• 13:46
  We're
• 13:46
  looking
• 13:47
  at
• 13:47
  the
• 13:47
  behavior
• 13:48
  that
• 13:48
  we
• 13:48
  want
• 13:49
  to
• 13:49
  shift
• 13:49
  in
• 13:49
  our
• 13:49
  customer.
• 13:50
  We
• 13:50
  want
• 13:50
  them
• 13:50
  to
• 13:51
  say
• 13:51
  wow.
• 13:51
  I
• 13:51
  think
• 13:51
  even
• 13:51
  said
• 13:52
  the
• 13:52
  word
• 13:52
  wow
• 13:52
  in
• 13:53
  it.
• 13:53
  You
• 13:53
  know,
• 13:53
  we
• 13:54
  want
• 13:54
  them
• 13:54
  to
• 13:54
  say
• 13:54
  wow
• 13:54
  when
• 13:55
  they
• 13:55
  see
• 13:55
  it.
• 13:55
  We
• 13:56
  then
• 13:56
  work
• 13:56
  back
• 13:56
  to
• 13:56
  the
• 13:57
  technology.
• 13:57
  And
• 13:58
  while
• 13:58
  the
• 13:58
  thing
• 13:58
  that
• 13:58
  you've
• 13:59
  just
• 13:59
  described
• 14:00
  is
• 14:00
  a
• 14:00
  very
• 14:01
  cool
• 14:01
  feature
• 14:02
  and
• 14:02
  we
• 14:02
  can
• 14:03
  understand
• 14:03
  why
• 14:03
  it's
• 14:03
  a
• 14:03
  nice,
• 14:04
  meaty
• 14:04
  technical
• 14:04
  challenge
• 14:05
  to
• 14:05
  have
• 14:05
  that
• 14:05
  feature,
• 14:06
  it
• 14:06
  isn't
• 14:07
  going
• 14:07
  to
• 14:07
  help
• 14:07
  our
• 14:07
  end
• 14:07
  customer
• 14:08
  experience.
• 14:08
  And
• 14:09
  when
• 14:09
  we're
• 14:09
  looking
• 14:09
  at
• 14:10
  that
• 14:10
  bigger
• 14:10
  vision.
• 14:11
  So
• 14:11
  right
• 14:11
  now
• 14:11
  it
• 14:12
  isn't
• 14:12
  the
• 14:12
  right
• 14:12
  thing
• 14:12
  to
• 14:13
  do.
• 14:14
  And
• 14:14
  I
• 14:14
  know
• 14:15
  that,
• 14:15
  you
• 14:15
  know,
• 14:15
  as
• 14:15
  a
• 14:15
  technical,
• 14:16
  and
• 14:16
  I
• 14:16
  fall
• 14:16
  into
• 14:16
  this
• 14:16
  bucket
• 14:17
  as
• 14:17
  well.
• 14:17
  You
• 14:17
  know,
• 14:17
  when
• 14:17
  working
• 14:18
  with
• 14:18
  technical
• 14:18
  founders,
• 14:20
  there
• 14:20
  is
• 14:20
  a
• 14:21
  temptation
• 14:22
  to
• 14:23
  jump
• 14:23
  into
• 14:23
  those
• 14:23
  really
• 14:24
  exciting,
• 14:24
  cool
• 14:25
  stuff.
• 14:25
  Because
• 14:26
  it
• 14:26
  is
• 14:26
  cool.
• 14:26
  It
• 14:27
  is
• 14:27
  very
• 14:27
  cool.
• 14:27
  It
• 14:28
  is
• 14:28
  very
• 14:28
  cool.
• 14:28
  A
• 14:29
  few
• 14:29
  years
• 14:29
  ago,
• 14:29
  I
• 14:29
  did
• 14:29
  a
• 14:30
  lot
• 14:30
  of
• 14:30
  work
• 14:30
  with
• 14:30
  various
• 14:31
  different
• 14:31
  people
• 14:31
  that
• 14:31
  were
• 14:32
  working
• 14:32
  in
• 14:32
  what
• 14:32
  was
• 14:32
  called
• 14:33
  the
• 14:33
  Web3
• 14:33
  area.
• 14:34
  It
• 14:34
  was
• 14:34
  looking
• 14:34
  at
• 14:35
  the
• 14:35
  Metaverse,
• 14:36
  it
• 14:36
  was
• 14:36
  looking
• 14:36
  at
• 14:37
  Blockchain,
• 14:37
  it
• 14:37
  was
• 14:37
  looking
• 14:37
  at
• 14:38
  all
• 14:38
  these
• 14:38
  exciting
• 14:38
  things.
• 14:40
  I
• 14:40
  was
• 14:40
  working
• 14:41
  with
• 14:41
  a
• 14:41
  company
• 14:42
  called
• 14:42
  Hundo
• 14:42
  and
• 14:42
  we
• 14:42
  were
• 14:43
  building
• 14:43
  an
• 14:43
  education
• 14:44
  platform
• 14:45
  and
• 14:46
  Very
• 14:46
  early
• 14:46
  on
• 14:47
  we've
• 14:47
  been
• 14:47
  looking
• 14:47
  at
• 14:47
  how
• 14:48
  we
• 14:48
  could
• 14:48
  look
• 14:48
  at
• 14:48
  like
• 14:49
  incentivizing
• 14:50
  and
• 14:50
  distributing
• 14:50
  like
• 14:51
  the
• 14:51
  funds
• 14:51
  that
• 14:51
  come
• 14:52
  into
• 14:52
  the
• 14:52
  platform
• 14:52
  to
• 14:52
  incentivize
• 14:53
  users
• 14:54
  to
• 14:54
  use
• 14:54
  the
• 14:54
  platform
• 14:54
  more
• 14:55
  through
• 14:55
  giving
• 14:55
  them
• 14:55
  this
• 14:56
  kind
• 14:56
  of
• 14:56
  reward
• 14:56
  mechanic.
• 14:57
  And
• 14:58
  we
• 14:58
  got
• 14:58
  quite,
• 14:58
  and
• 14:59
  I'll
• 14:59
  be
• 14:59
  honest,
• 15:00
  we
• 15:00
  got
• 15:00
  quite
• 15:00
  excited
• 15:01
  about
• 15:01
  the
• 15:01
  technology
• 15:02
  that
• 15:02
  was
• 15:02
  driving
• 15:03
  it
• 15:03
  and
• 15:03
  the
• 15:04
  flows
• 15:04
  that
• 15:04
  would
• 15:05
  drive
• 15:05
  this
• 15:05
  kind
• 15:05
  of
• 15:06
  process.
• 15:07
  And
• 15:07
  we
• 15:07
  put
• 15:07
  together
• 15:07
  some
• 15:08
  early
• 15:08
  stage
• 15:08
  prototypes
• 15:09
  just
• 15:09
  to
• 15:09
  test
• 15:09
  out
• 15:09
  how
• 15:10
  it
• 15:10
  would
• 15:10
  work.
• 15:10
  We
• 15:10
  tested
• 15:11
  it
• 15:11
  all
• 15:11
  out
• 15:12
  and
• 15:12
  what
• 15:12
  we
• 15:12
  learned
• 15:13
  incredibly
• 15:13
  quickly
• 15:14
  was
• 15:14
  that
• 15:15
  nobody
• 15:16
  really
• 15:16
  cared
• 15:16
  about
• 15:17
  that
• 15:17
  aspect
• 15:17
  of
• 15:17
  it.
• 15:18
  You
• 15:18
  know,
• 15:18
  it
• 15:18
  was,
• 15:18
  it
• 15:19
  was
• 15:19
  like
• 15:19
  when
• 15:19
  you
• 15:20
  told
• 15:20
  them
• 15:20
  about
• 15:20
  it,
• 15:20
  they
• 15:20
  would
• 15:21
  say,
• 15:21
  oh,
• 15:21
  that
• 15:21
  sounds
• 15:21
  really
• 15:21
  interesting.
• 15:22
  Yeah,
• 15:22
  I'm
• 15:22
  very
• 15:23
  much
• 15:23
  interested
• 15:23
  in
• 15:23
  getting,
• 15:24
  you
• 15:24
  know,
• 15:24
  the
• 15:24
  rewards
• 15:24
  for
• 15:25
  doing
• 15:25
  the
• 15:25
  learning.
• 15:26
  When
• 15:26
  we
• 15:26
  actually
• 15:26
  tested
• 15:27
  the
• 15:27
  platform,
• 15:27
  they
• 15:28
  liked
• 15:28
  the
• 15:28
  learning
• 15:28
  content,
• 15:29
  they
• 15:29
  wanted
• 15:29
  to
• 15:29
  do
• 15:30
  the
• 15:30
  learning.
• 15:30
  The
• 15:30
  rewards
• 15:31
  were
• 15:31
  kind
• 15:31
  of
• 15:31
  nice.
• 15:32
  It
• 15:32
  was
• 15:32
  nice
• 15:33
  to
• 15:33
  have.
• 15:33
  Would
• 15:34
  it
• 15:34
  incentivize
• 15:34
  them
• 15:35
  to
• 15:35
  use
• 15:35
  that
• 15:35
  over
• 15:35
  a
• 15:36
  different
• 15:36
  platform?
• 15:36
  No,
• 15:37
  not
• 15:37
  really.
• 15:38
  And
• 15:38
  so
• 15:38
  we
• 15:39
  pivoted
• 15:39
  quite
• 15:39
  early
• 15:40
  on
• 15:40
  because
• 15:40
  we
• 15:40
  realized
• 15:41
  that
• 15:41
  the
• 15:41
  effort
• 15:42
  we
• 15:42
  were
• 15:42
  putting
• 15:42
  into
• 15:43
  that
• 15:43
  was
• 15:43
  not
• 15:43
  going
• 15:43
  to
• 15:44
  generate
• 15:44
  that
• 15:44
  end
• 15:44
  customer
• 15:45
  experience.
• 15:45
  If
• 15:45
  anything,
• 15:46
  it
• 15:46
  was
• 15:46
  getting
• 15:46
  in
• 15:46
  the
• 15:46
  way
• 15:47
  of
• 15:47
  it.
• 15:47
  So
• 15:48
  it
• 15:48
  was
• 15:48
  just
• 15:48
  asking
• 15:48
  those
• 15:48
  right
• 15:49
  questions
• 15:49
  quite
• 15:49
  early
• 15:50
  on.
• 15:50
  We
• 15:50
  tested
• 15:51
  that
• 15:51
  early.
• 15:51
  We
• 15:51
  put
• 15:51
  together
• 15:51
  a
• 15:52
  prototype
• 15:52
  quite
• 15:52
  quickly.
• 15:53
  We
• 15:53
  tested
• 15:53
  it
• 15:53
  with
• 15:54
  people,
• 15:54
  we
• 15:54
  got
• 15:55
  some
• 15:55
  of
• 15:55
  their
• 15:55
  feedback,
• 15:55
  we
• 15:55
  watched
• 15:56
  what
• 15:56
  they
• 15:56
  did.
• 15:57
  When
• 15:57
  we
• 15:57
  told
• 15:57
  them
• 15:57
  about
• 15:58
  it,
• 15:58
  they
• 15:58
  said
• 15:58
  it
• 15:58
  was
• 15:58
  really
• 15:59
  interesting
• 15:59
  and
• 15:59
  cool.
• 16:00
  When
• 16:00
  they
• 16:00
  actually
• 16:00
  used
• 16:01
  it,
• 16:01
  they
• 16:01
  didn't
• 16:02
  care.
• 16:02
  And
• 16:02
  it
• 16:02
  was
• 16:03
  like,
• 16:03
  okay,
• 16:03
  great,
• 16:04
  we
• 16:04
  need
• 16:04
  to
• 16:04
  park
• 16:04
  that.
• 16:05
  You
• 16:05
  know,
• 16:05
  put
• 16:05
  ego
• 16:06
  aside.
• 16:06
  Let's
• 16:06
  park
• 16:06
  that.
• 16:07
  Never
• 16:07
  mind
• 16:07
  how
• 16:07
  cool
• 16:07
  the
• 16:07
  technology
• 16:08
  is.
• 16:08
  Actually,
• 16:09
  you
• 16:09
  just
• 16:10
  made
• 16:10
  me
• 16:10
  randomly
• 16:11
  think
• 16:11
  of
• 16:12
  years
• 16:12
  ago
• 16:13
  there
• 16:14
  was
• 16:14
  a,
• 16:15
  and
• 16:15
  there
• 16:15
  may
• 16:16
  actually
• 16:16
  be
• 16:16
  one
• 16:16
  now,
• 16:17
  a
• 16:17
  browser
• 16:18
  that
• 16:18
  the,
• 16:18
  the
• 16:19
  aim
• 16:19
  was
• 16:19
  to
• 16:19
  reward
• 16:20
  users
• 16:21
  as
• 16:21
  they
• 16:21
  used
• 16:21
  it.
• 16:22
  Yeah.
• 16:23
  With
• 16:23
  some
• 16:23
  sort
• 16:23
  of
• 16:24
  currency
• 16:25
  that
• 16:25
  could
• 16:25
  then
• 16:25
  be
• 16:26
  converted
• 16:26
  into
• 16:26
  cash.
• 16:27
  Is
• 16:27
  it?
• 16:27
  It's
• 16:28
  not,
• 16:28
  no.
• 16:28
  Duckduck
• 16:29
  goes
• 16:29
  fully
• 16:29
  private,
• 16:30
  but
• 16:30
  there's,
• 16:30
  there's
• 16:31
  another
• 16:31
  one.
• 16:32
  Does
• 16:32
  Brave
• 16:33
  reward
• 16:33
  you?
• 16:34
  It
• 16:34
  did.
• 16:34
  I
• 16:35
  don't
• 16:35
  know
• 16:35
  if
• 16:35
  it
• 16:35
  still
• 16:35
  does,
• 16:35
  but
• 16:36
  it
• 16:36
  did.
• 16:36
  Yeah.
• 16:36
  So
• 16:37
  it's
• 16:37
  again,
• 16:37
  I
• 16:38
  find
• 16:39
  with
• 16:39
  a
• 16:39
  lot
• 16:39
  of
• 16:39
  those
• 16:40
  things
• 16:40
  and
• 16:41
  you
• 16:41
  know,
• 16:42
  my
• 16:42
  assumption
• 16:43
  is
• 16:43
  that
• 16:44
  probably
• 16:44
  people
• 16:44
  didn't
• 16:45
  really
• 16:45
  understand
• 16:46
  how
• 16:46
  A
• 16:46
  turned
• 16:47
  into
• 16:47
  B.
• 16:48
  A
• 16:48
  bit
• 16:48
  like
• 16:49
  people
• 16:49
  are
• 16:49
  still
• 16:49
  confused
• 16:50
  by
• 16:50
  cashback
• 16:51
  cards,
• 16:51
  avias
• 16:52
  cards
• 16:52
  for
• 16:53
  credit
• 16:53
  cards
• 16:53
  and
• 16:53
  whatever.
• 16:54
  There's,
• 16:54
  you
• 16:54
  know,
• 16:54
  there's
• 16:55
  kind
• 16:55
  of
• 16:55
  a
• 16:55
  confusing
• 16:56
  mechanic
• 16:57
  there
• 16:57
  that
• 16:58
  might
• 16:59
  hinder
• 16:59
  things.
• 17:00
  And
• 17:00
  whilst
• 17:00
  a
• 17:01
  great
• 17:01
  idea
• 17:02
  might
• 17:03
  seem
• 17:04
  like
• 17:04
  a
• 17:04
  great
• 17:04
  idea,
• 17:05
  you
• 17:06
  probably
• 17:06
  saved
• 17:06
  yourselves
• 17:07
  years
• 17:08
  of
• 17:08
  time
• 17:10
  obsessing
• 17:11
  about
• 17:11
  this
• 17:11
  idea.
• 17:12
  By
• 17:12
  just,
• 17:12
  you
• 17:13
  know,
• 17:13
  sitting
• 17:13
  down
• 17:13
  and
• 17:14
  getting
• 17:14
  real
• 17:14
  feedback.
• 17:16
  It's
• 17:16
  very.
• 17:16
  Exactly.
• 17:17
  Sorry.
• 17:18
  It
• 17:18
  was
• 17:19
  very
• 17:19
  interesting
• 17:20
  how
• 17:20
  you
• 17:21
  said
• 17:21
  that.
• 17:21
  Often
• 17:22
  people
• 17:22
  will
• 17:22
  say,
• 17:22
  yeah,
• 17:23
  yeah,
• 17:23
  yeah,
• 17:23
  yeah,
• 17:23
  love
• 17:23
  that
• 17:24
  idea.
• 17:25
  And
• 17:25
  then
• 17:25
  you're
• 17:25
  like,
• 17:26
  amazing.
• 17:27
  Who
• 17:27
  wouldn't
• 17:27
  think
• 17:28
  that?
• 17:28
  Right?
• 17:28
  Like,
• 17:29
  okay,
• 17:30
  great.
• 17:30
  And
• 17:31
  then
• 17:31
  you
• 17:31
  see
• 17:32
  it
• 17:32
  in.
• 17:32
  In.
• 17:33
  In
• 17:33
  the
• 17:33
  wild,
• 17:34
  if
• 17:34
  you
• 17:34
  want
• 17:34
  to
• 17:34
  call
• 17:34
  it
• 17:35
  that,
• 17:36
  and
• 17:37
  actually
• 17:38
  realize
• 17:38
  that
• 17:39
  people
• 17:39
  aren't
• 17:39
  as
• 17:40
  enthusiastic
• 17:41
  about
• 17:41
  it.
• 17:41
  Yeah.
• 17:42
  And
• 17:42
  I
• 17:42
  think
• 17:42
  it's
• 17:43
  going
• 17:43
  back
• 17:43
  to
• 17:43
  understanding
• 17:44
  the
• 17:45
  full
• 17:45
  customer
• 17:45
  life
• 17:45
  cycle,
• 17:46
  the
• 17:46
  full
• 17:46
  customer
• 17:46
  journey.
• 17:47
  It's
• 17:47
  understanding
• 17:48
  that
• 17:48
  those
• 17:48
  kind
• 17:49
  of
• 17:49
  things
• 17:49
  are
• 17:49
  beneficial.
• 17:50
  But
• 17:50
  at
• 17:50
  the
• 17:51
  right
• 17:51
  point
• 17:51
  of
• 17:51
  a
• 17:51
  journey
• 17:52
  and
• 17:52
  at
• 17:52
  the
• 17:52
  right
• 17:53
  point
• 17:53
  of
• 17:53
  a
• 17:53
  customer's
• 17:54
  experience,
• 17:54
  your
• 17:54
  products,
• 17:55
  you
• 17:55
  know,
• 17:55
  you
• 17:55
  know,
• 17:55
  not
• 17:55
  to
• 17:56
  go
• 17:56
  too
• 17:56
  deep
• 17:56
  into
• 17:56
  this
• 17:57
  subject,
• 17:57
  but
• 17:57
  things
• 17:57
  like
• 17:58
  points
• 17:58
  mechanics
• 17:59
  and
• 17:59
  things
• 17:59
  like
• 17:59
  reward
• 17:59
  mechanics
• 18:00
  do
• 18:01
  work
• 18:01
  when
• 18:01
  you
• 18:01
  have
• 18:02
  a
• 18:02
  customer
• 18:03
  base
• 18:03
  that
• 18:03
  is
• 18:04
  quite
• 18:04
  mature
• 18:05
  and
• 18:05
  has
• 18:05
  been
• 18:05
  using
• 18:06
  your
• 18:06
  platform
• 18:06
  for
• 18:06
  a
• 18:06
  while.
• 18:07
  And
• 18:08
  it's
• 18:08
  a
• 18:08
  way
• 18:08
  of
• 18:08
  maintaining
• 18:09
  that.
• 18:09
  It's
• 18:10
  a
• 18:10
  way
• 18:10
  of
• 18:10
  retaining
• 18:11
  that
• 18:11
  customer
• 18:12
  when
• 18:12
  there's
• 18:12
  potential
• 18:12
  competition
• 18:13
  coming,
• 18:14
  you
• 18:15
  know,
• 18:15
  so
• 18:15
  using
• 18:15
  the
• 18:15
  example
• 18:16
  of,
• 18:16
  you
• 18:17
  know,
• 18:17
  in
• 18:17
  the
• 18:17
  uk,
• 18:17
  you
• 18:17
  have
• 18:17
  like
• 18:18
  Tesco's
• 18:18
  Club
• 18:18
  car
• 18:18
  points,
• 18:19
  or
• 18:19
  every
• 18:19
  supermarket
• 18:20
  has
• 18:20
  club
• 18:20
  car
• 18:20
  points.
• 18:21
  The
• 18:21
  reason
• 18:21
  why
• 18:22
  they
• 18:22
  have
• 18:22
  those
• 18:22
  is
• 18:23
  because
• 18:23
  it
• 18:23
  might
• 18:23
  tempt
• 18:23
  you
• 18:24
  to
• 18:24
  shop
• 18:24
  slightly
• 18:24
  more
• 18:25
  at
• 18:25
  their
• 18:25
  store
• 18:25
  than
• 18:25
  it
• 18:25
  does
• 18:26
  at
• 18:26
  other
• 18:26
  stores
• 18:27
  when
• 18:27
  you're
• 18:27
  already
• 18:27
  shopping
• 18:28
  there.
• 18:28
  But
• 18:28
  it's
• 18:28
  not
• 18:29
  to
• 18:29
  get
• 18:29
  you
• 18:29
  through
• 18:29
  the
• 18:29
  door
• 18:29
  in
• 18:30
  the
• 18:30
  first
• 18:30
  place.
• 18:31
  Nobody
• 18:31
  goes
• 18:31
  to
• 18:31
  Tesco's,
• 18:32
  or
• 18:32
  at
• 18:32
  least
• 18:32
  I
• 18:32
  assume
• 18:33
  they
• 18:33
  don't,
• 18:33
  to
• 18:34
  sign
• 18:34
  up
• 18:34
  for
• 18:34
  a
• 18:34
  club
• 18:35
  card
• 18:35
  solely
• 18:35
  so
• 18:35
  they
• 18:35
  can
• 18:36
  get
• 18:36
  club
• 18:36
  card
• 18:36
  points.
• 18:36
  They
• 18:37
  go
• 18:37
  to
• 18:37
  Tesco's
• 18:37
  anyway,
• 18:38
  and
• 18:38
  that.
• 18:38
  That
• 18:38
  helps
• 18:39
  maintain
• 18:39
  their
• 18:39
  loyalty.
• 18:40
  So
• 18:40
  they're
• 18:40
  good
• 18:40
  from
• 18:40
  a
• 18:40
  loyalty
• 18:41
  mechanic,
• 18:42
  but
• 18:42
  they're
• 18:42
  not
• 18:43
  good
• 18:43
  for
• 18:43
  getting
• 18:43
  you
• 18:43
  through
• 18:43
  the
• 18:43
  door.
• 18:44
  So
• 18:44
  again,
• 18:44
  that
• 18:44
  comes
• 18:45
  back
• 18:45
  to
• 18:45
  understanding
• 18:46
  the
• 18:46
  full
• 18:46
  customer
• 18:47
  life
• 18:47
  cycle.
• 18:47
  You
• 18:48
  know,
• 18:48
  why
• 18:48
  do
• 18:48
  people
• 18:48
  start
• 18:49
  using
• 18:49
  your
• 18:49
  product
• 18:50
  in
• 18:50
  the
• 18:50
  first
• 18:50
  place?
• 18:50
  Why
• 18:51
  do
• 18:51
  they
• 18:51
  continue
• 18:52
  to
• 18:52
  use
• 18:52
  it?
• 18:52
  And
• 18:53
  then
• 18:53
  why
• 18:53
  are
• 18:53
  they
• 18:53
  leaving?
• 18:54
  And
• 18:54
  what.
• 18:54
  What
• 18:54
  mechanics
• 18:55
  can
• 18:55
  you
• 18:55
  put
• 18:55
  in
• 18:55
  place
• 18:56
  at
• 18:56
  different
• 18:56
  parts
• 18:56
  of
• 18:56
  that
• 18:57
  journey
• 18:57
  to
• 18:57
  ensure
• 18:57
  they're
• 18:57
  having
• 18:58
  a
• 18:58
  great
• 18:58
  experience,
• 18:59
  regardless
• 19:00
  of
• 19:00
  where
• 19:00
  they
• 19:00
  are
• 19:00
  in
• 19:00
  that
• 19:01
  cycle?
• 19:02
  And
• 19:02
  on
• 19:02
  that
• 19:02
  particular
• 19:02
  example,
• 19:03
  we
• 19:03
  were
• 19:03
  focusing
• 19:04
  too
• 19:04
  much
• 19:04
  on
• 19:04
  the
• 19:04
  reward
• 19:05
  mechanic.
• 19:05
  With
• 19:05
  Hundo
• 19:06
  at
• 19:06
  the
• 19:06
  beginning
• 19:06
  of
• 19:07
  the
• 19:07
  journey,
• 19:08
  that
• 19:08
  wasn't
• 19:08
  why
• 19:08
  people
• 19:08
  were
• 19:09
  joined.
• 19:09
  Because
• 19:09
  it's
• 19:09
  technically
• 19:10
  cool,
• 19:10
  right?
• 19:11
  Because
• 19:11
  it's
• 19:11
  technically
• 19:11
  cool.
• 19:12
  Yeah,
• 19:12
  it's
• 19:13
  technically
• 19:13
  cool
• 19:13
  and
• 19:14
  it
• 19:14
  sounds
• 19:14
  really
• 19:14
  good.
• 19:15
  And
• 19:15
  why
• 19:15
  wouldn't
• 19:15
  you
• 19:16
  be
• 19:16
  interested
• 19:16
  in
• 19:16
  that?
• 19:17
  And
• 19:17
  the
• 19:17
  answer
• 19:17
  is,
• 19:17
  well,
• 19:18
  once
• 19:18
  people
• 19:18
  are
• 19:18
  on
• 19:19
  it
• 19:19
  and
• 19:19
  they
• 19:19
  were
• 19:19
  using
• 19:19
  the
• 19:20
  platform
• 19:20
  as
• 19:21
  a
• 19:21
  way
• 19:21
  of
• 19:21
  maintaining
• 19:22
  their
• 19:22
  use
• 19:22
  in
• 19:23
  the
• 19:23
  future,
• 19:23
  it
• 19:24
  can
• 19:24
  be
• 19:24
  valuable
• 19:24
  but
• 19:25
  it's
• 19:25
  not
• 19:25
  the
• 19:25
  reason
• 19:25
  for
• 19:25
  them
• 19:26
  joining
• 19:26
  in
• 19:26
  the
• 19:26
  first
• 19:26
  place.
• 19:27
  And
• 19:27
  it's
• 19:27
  about,
• 19:27
  yeah,
• 19:28
  it's
• 19:28
  about
• 19:28
  understanding
• 19:29
  that
• 19:29
  tension
• 19:29
  between
• 19:30
  something
• 19:31
  being
• 19:31
  a
• 19:31
  cool
• 19:31
  idea
• 19:32
  and
• 19:32
  even
• 19:32
  something
• 19:33
  being
• 19:33
  a
• 19:33
  cool
• 19:33
  idea
• 19:33
  and
• 19:34
  working
• 19:34
  elsewhere.
• 19:35
  But
• 19:35
  it
• 19:35
  working
• 19:36
  in
• 19:36
  the
• 19:36
  context
• 19:36
  of
• 19:37
  the
• 19:37
  customers
• 19:37
  that
• 19:38
  you're
• 19:38
  currently
• 19:38
  targeting.
• 19:39
  That's
• 19:39
  always
• 19:39
  really
• 19:40
  important.
• 19:40
  And
• 19:40
  I
• 19:41
  suppose
• 19:41
  just
• 19:41
  touching
• 19:42
  on
• 19:42
  what
• 19:42
  you
• 19:42
  said
• 19:43
  relevant
• 19:44
  to
• 19:44
  the
• 19:44
  stage
• 19:44
  of
• 19:44
  the
• 19:44
  journey,
• 19:45
  you
• 19:45
  know,
• 19:46
  if
• 19:46
  you,
• 19:47
  if
• 19:47
  you
• 19:47
  think
• 19:47
  about
• 19:47
  it
• 19:47
  like
• 19:47
  a
• 19:48
  leaky
• 19:48
  bucket,
• 19:49
  where,
• 19:50
  where
• 19:50
  is
• 19:50
  the
• 19:50
  leak
• 19:51
  coming
• 19:51
  from?
• 19:51
  Is
• 19:52
  it,
• 19:52
  is
• 19:52
  it.
• 19:53
  Are
• 19:53
  we
• 19:53
  suffering
• 19:53
  from
• 19:54
  high
• 19:54
  churn?
• 19:55
  Are
• 19:55
  we
• 19:57
  suffering
• 19:57
  from
• 19:58
  even
• 19:58
  getting
• 19:58
  to
• 19:58
  the
• 19:58
  point
• 19:59
  where
• 19:59
  people
• 19:59
  are
• 19:59
  onboarded
• 20:00
  and
• 20:01
  regular
• 20:01
  usage?
• 20:02
  It's
• 20:03
  assumptions
• 20:04
  are
• 20:04
  kind
• 20:04
  of
• 20:05
  a
• 20:05
  killer.
• 20:05
  I
• 20:05
  mean,
• 20:07
  you
• 20:07
  know
• 20:07
  the
• 20:08
  feeling
• 20:09
  when
• 20:09
  you
• 20:10
  talk
• 20:10
  to
• 20:10
  a
• 20:10
  founder
• 20:11
  where
• 20:13
  there's
• 20:13
  a
• 20:13
  feeling
• 20:13
  that
• 20:14
  they've
• 20:14
  made
• 20:14
  assumptions
• 20:16
  and
• 20:16
  this
• 20:17
  could
• 20:17
  be
• 20:17
  essentially
• 20:20
  traction
• 20:22
  mixed
• 20:23
  with
• 20:23
  a
• 20:23
  confusion
• 20:24
  over
• 20:24
  like
• 20:24
  value.
• 20:25
  To
• 20:25
  that
• 20:25
  point
• 20:26
  you
• 20:27
  and
• 20:27
  I
• 20:27
  had
• 20:27
  a.
• 20:28
  Sorry
• 20:28
  to
• 20:28
  use
• 20:28
  an
• 20:29
  American
• 20:29
  phrase,
• 20:30
  whenever
• 20:30
  I
• 20:30
  speak
• 20:31
  to
• 20:31
  my
• 20:31
  American
• 20:31
  clients
• 20:32
  I
• 20:32
  get
• 20:32
  a
• 20:33
  point
• 20:33
  for
• 20:33
  saying
• 20:34
  to
• 20:34
  your
• 20:34
  point,
• 20:34
  you
• 20:35
  have
• 20:35
  a
• 20:35
  brilliant
• 20:35
  story
• 20:36
  about
• 20:37
  this
• 20:37
  from
• 20:38
  launching
• 20:38
  Dizone
• 20:39
  in
• 20:40
  Japan
• 20:41
  versus
• 20:41
  Germany
• 20:43
  and
• 20:44
  how
• 20:44
  a
• 20:44
  unexpected
• 20:45
  outcome,
• 20:46
  although
• 20:46
  a
• 20:46
  little
• 20:47
  humorous,
• 20:48
  is
• 20:48
  a
• 20:48
  great
• 20:48
  tale.
• 20:50
  Do
• 20:51
  you
• 20:51
  mind
• 20:51
  sharing?
• 20:51
  Yeah,
• 20:52
  absolutely,
• 20:53
  absolutely.
• 20:53
  I
• 20:53
  think
• 20:53
  it's
• 20:54
  a
• 20:54
  great
• 20:54
  story.
• 20:54
  So
• 20:55
  for
• 20:55
  those
• 20:55
  that
• 20:55
  are
• 20:55
  listening,
• 20:56
  Dazn
• 20:56
  is
• 20:57
  a,
• 20:57
  is
• 20:57
  a
• 20:57
  streaming
• 20:58
  service.
• 20:58
  It's
• 20:59
  a
• 20:59
  sports
• 20:59
  streaming
• 21:00
  service.
• 21:00
  So
• 21:00
  it
• 21:00
  shows
• 21:01
  sports
• 21:01
  content
• 21:02
  and
• 21:02
  certainly
• 21:03
  within
• 21:03
  the
• 21:03
  uk
• 21:04
  when
• 21:04
  we
• 21:04
  first
• 21:05
  built
• 21:05
  it,
• 21:05
  it
• 21:05
  was
• 21:05
  one
• 21:05
  of
• 21:06
  the
• 21:06
  first
• 21:07
  Netflix
• 21:07
  like
• 21:07
  sports
• 21:08
  streaming
• 21:08
  services
• 21:08
  out
• 21:09
  there
• 21:09
  that
• 21:09
  was
• 21:10
  predominantly
• 21:10
  for
• 21:10
  that.
• 21:11
  We,
• 21:12
  it's
• 21:12
  an
• 21:12
  English
• 21:12
  company
• 21:13
  but
• 21:13
  we
• 21:13
  launched
• 21:13
  in
• 21:14
  Germany
• 21:15
  and
• 21:15
  Japan
• 21:15
  first,
• 21:16
  two
• 21:16
  very,
• 21:16
  very
• 21:17
  different
• 21:17
  markets,
• 21:17
  you
• 21:18
  know,
• 21:18
  so
• 21:18
  we're
• 21:18
  an
• 21:18
  English
• 21:19
  company
• 21:20
  building
• 21:20
  in
• 21:20
  England
• 21:21
  for
• 21:23
  Japanese
• 21:23
  and
• 21:24
  for
• 21:24
  a
• 21:24
  German
• 21:24
  market.
• 21:26
  We
• 21:27
  had
• 21:27
  a
• 21:27
  lot
• 21:27
  of
• 21:27
  assumptions
• 21:28
  going
• 21:28
  in
• 21:29
  around
• 21:29
  how
• 21:29
  people
• 21:30
  would
• 21:30
  use
• 21:30
  the
• 21:30
  products,
• 21:31
  around
• 21:31
  how
• 21:31
  the
• 21:31
  messaging
• 21:32
  would
• 21:32
  work,
• 21:32
  what
• 21:33
  would
• 21:33
  resonate
• 21:35
  and
• 21:35
  for
• 21:35
  pure
• 21:35
  logistical
• 21:36
  reasons
• 21:36
  we'd
• 21:37
  done
• 21:37
  a
• 21:37
  lot
• 21:37
  of
• 21:37
  our
• 21:37
  testing,
• 21:38
  early
• 21:38
  testing
• 21:38
  in
• 21:38
  the
• 21:39
  UK
• 21:39
  and
• 21:39
  in
• 21:39
  Germany
• 21:40
  because
• 21:40
  they
• 21:40
  are
• 21:40
  significantly
• 21:41
  closer.
• 21:42
  And
• 21:42
  we
• 21:43
  built
• 21:43
  a
• 21:43
  UI
• 21:43
  and
• 21:44
  it
• 21:44
  was
• 21:44
  super
• 21:44
  slick
• 21:45
  and
• 21:46
  it
• 21:46
  was
• 21:47
  testing
• 21:47
  really
• 21:47
  well.
• 21:47
  In
• 21:48
  the
• 21:48
  UK
• 21:49
  we
• 21:50
  had
• 21:50
  this
• 21:50
  metric
• 21:50
  that
• 21:51
  we
• 21:51
  used
• 21:51
  to
• 21:51
  track
• 21:51
  when
• 21:51
  we
• 21:52
  were
• 21:52
  testing,
• 21:52
  which
• 21:52
  was
• 21:53
  the
• 21:53
  speed
• 21:53
  to
• 21:53
  wow,
• 21:54
  which
• 21:54
  was
• 21:54
  how
• 21:54
  quickly
• 21:54
  we
• 21:55
  could
• 21:55
  get
• 21:55
  a
• 21:55
  user
• 21:55
  testing
• 21:56
  participant
• 21:56
  to
• 21:56
  say
• 21:56
  wow
• 21:57
  when
• 21:57
  they
• 21:57
  started
• 21:57
  using
• 21:58
  the
• 21:58
  products
• 21:58
  and
• 21:58
  it
• 21:59
  was
• 21:59
  super
• 21:59
  quick.
• 21:59
  People
• 22:00
  start
• 22:00
  using
• 22:00
  it,
• 22:00
  just
• 22:00
  lean
• 22:01
  forward
• 22:01
  and
• 22:01
  say
• 22:01
  oh
• 22:01
  wow,
• 22:01
  this,
• 22:02
  this
• 22:02
  is
• 22:02
  super
• 22:02
  cool.
• 22:03
  You
• 22:03
  know,
• 22:03
  where
• 22:03
  do
• 22:03
  I
• 22:03
  sign
• 22:04
  up?
• 22:04
  And
• 22:04
  that
• 22:04
  was,
• 22:05
  that
• 22:05
  was
• 22:05
  a
• 22:05
  sign
• 22:05
  to
• 22:05
  us
• 22:06
  that
• 22:06
  this
• 22:06
  was
• 22:06
  going
• 22:06
  to
• 22:06
  do
• 22:06
  quite
• 22:07
  well.
• 22:07
  We
• 22:07
  were
• 22:07
  testing
• 22:08
  in
• 22:08
  Germany,
• 22:08
  we
• 22:08
  were
• 22:08
  getting
• 22:08
  similar
• 22:09
  types
• 22:09
  of
• 22:09
  results.
• 22:10
  We
• 22:11
  Took
• 22:11
  it
• 22:11
  over
• 22:11
  to
• 22:11
  Germany.
• 22:12
  Sorry,
• 22:13
  we
• 22:13
  took
• 22:13
  it
• 22:13
  over
• 22:13
  to
• 22:13
  Japan
• 22:15
  and
• 22:15
  the
• 22:15
  Japanese
• 22:16
  market.
• 22:16
  There's
• 22:16
  obviously,
• 22:17
  we
• 22:17
  had
• 22:17
  a
• 22:17
  marketing
• 22:17
  term
• 22:18
  out
• 22:18
  there
• 22:18
  that
• 22:18
  had
• 22:18
  been
• 22:18
  doing,
• 22:19
  you
• 22:19
  know,
• 22:19
  market
• 22:19
  research.
• 22:20
  We
• 22:20
  had
• 22:20
  some
• 22:20
  good
• 22:20
  partnerships
• 22:21
  that
• 22:21
  were
• 22:21
  in
• 22:21
  place.
• 22:23
  In
• 22:23
  fact,
• 22:23
  DAZ
• 22:24
  launched
• 22:24
  with
• 22:24
  a
• 22:24
  partnership
• 22:25
  with
• 22:25
  docomo,
• 22:25
  which
• 22:25
  is
• 22:25
  one
• 22:26
  of
• 22:26
  the
• 22:26
  biggest
• 22:26
  telcos
• 22:26
  over
• 22:27
  there.
• 22:27
  So
• 22:27
  we,
• 22:27
  we
• 22:27
  knew
• 22:28
  it
• 22:28
  was
• 22:28
  a
• 22:28
  solid
• 22:28
  market
• 22:28
  and
• 22:29
  we
• 22:29
  tested
• 22:29
  the
• 22:29
  UI
• 22:30
  for
• 22:30
  the
• 22:30
  very
• 22:30
  first
• 22:30
  time
• 22:31
  and
• 22:31
  we
• 22:31
  went
• 22:31
  in
• 22:31
  with
• 22:32
  this
• 22:32
  assumption
• 22:32
  and
• 22:32
  expectation
• 22:33
  that
• 22:33
  we
• 22:34
  get
• 22:34
  the
• 22:34
  same
• 22:34
  reaction
• 22:34
  as
• 22:35
  we
• 22:35
  did
• 22:35
  in
• 22:35
  England
• 22:35
  and
• 22:36
  Germany,
• 22:36
  that
• 22:36
  everyone
• 22:37
  would
• 22:37
  love
• 22:37
  it.
• 22:38
  And
• 22:38
  what
• 22:39
  we
• 22:39
  got
• 22:39
  was
• 22:39
  lots
• 22:39
  of
• 22:39
  quizzical
• 22:40
  faces
• 22:41
  and
• 22:41
  people
• 22:42
  looking
• 22:42
  slightly
• 22:42
  skeptical
• 22:43
  about
• 22:43
  it.
• 22:44
  And
• 22:44
  we
• 22:45
  were
• 22:45
  really
• 22:45
  concerned.
• 22:46
  We
• 22:46
  were
• 22:46
  like.
• 22:46
  And
• 22:46
  a
• 22:47
  few.
• 22:47
  And
• 22:47
  I
• 22:47
  don't
• 22:47
  know
• 22:47
  if,
• 22:47
  if
• 22:48
  you've
• 22:48
  ever,
• 22:48
  if
• 22:48
  anyone's
• 22:49
  ever
• 22:49
  spent
• 22:49
  any
• 22:49
  time
• 22:49
  in
• 22:49
  Japan
• 22:50
  as
• 22:50
  well.
• 22:50
  There
• 22:50
  is,
• 22:51
  there's,
• 22:52
  it's
• 22:52
  not
• 22:52
  necessarily
• 22:52
  with
• 22:53
  younger
• 22:53
  people,
• 22:53
  it's
• 22:53
  not
• 22:53
  necessarily
• 22:54
  like
• 22:54
  this,
• 22:54
  but
• 22:54
  certainly
• 22:55
  within
• 22:55
  the
• 22:55
  older
• 22:55
  generation,
• 22:56
  you
• 22:56
  know,
• 22:56
  middle
• 22:56
  aged,
• 22:57
  older,
• 22:57
  there
• 22:57
  is
• 22:58
  a
• 22:58
  hesitance
• 22:59
  to
• 22:59
  give
• 22:59
  negative
• 22:59
  feedback
• 23:00
  as
• 23:00
  particularly
• 23:00
  if
• 23:00
  someone,
• 23:01
  someone
• 23:01
  using
• 23:02
  an
• 23:02
  authority,
• 23:03
  an
• 23:03
  authority
• 23:03
  position,
• 23:03
  which
• 23:04
  when
• 23:04
  you're
• 23:04
  doing
• 23:04
  user
• 23:05
  testing,
• 23:05
  you're
• 23:05
  asking
• 23:05
  questions,
• 23:06
  there's
• 23:06
  this
• 23:06
  reluctance
• 23:07
  to
• 23:07
  give
• 23:07
  feedback.
• 23:08
  And
• 23:08
  so
• 23:09
  initially
• 23:09
  we
• 23:09
  didn't
• 23:10
  get
• 23:10
  a
• 23:10
  lot
• 23:10
  of
• 23:10
  feedback
• 23:11
  as
• 23:11
  to
• 23:11
  why
• 23:11
  we
• 23:11
  were
• 23:12
  getting
• 23:12
  this
• 23:12
  kind
• 23:12
  of
• 23:13
  not
• 23:13
  negative
• 23:13
  reaction,
• 23:14
  but
• 23:14
  hesitance
• 23:15
  about
• 23:15
  using
• 23:15
  the
• 23:15
  platform.
• 23:16
  And
• 23:16
  then
• 23:16
  one
• 23:17
  of
• 23:17
  the
• 23:17
  younger
• 23:17
  participants
• 23:18
  turned
• 23:18
  around
• 23:18
  and
• 23:18
  said,
• 23:19
  well,
• 23:19
  it's
• 23:19
  because
• 23:19
  you've
• 23:19
  got
• 23:19
  a
• 23:19
  black
• 23:20
  UI.
• 23:20
  The
• 23:20
  only
• 23:21
  other
• 23:21
  companies
• 23:21
  that
• 23:21
  use
• 23:21
  black
• 23:22
  UIs
• 23:22
  are
• 23:22
  adult
• 23:23
  sites.
• 23:24
  And
• 23:24
  we
• 23:24
  were
• 23:24
  like,
• 23:24
  oh.
• 23:25
  So
• 23:26
  everybody
• 23:26
  was
• 23:26
  coming
• 23:26
  to
• 23:27
  the
• 23:27
  platform
• 23:27
  and
• 23:28
  their
• 23:28
  initial,
• 23:29
  initial
• 23:29
  thought
• 23:30
  of
• 23:30
  it
• 23:30
  was
• 23:30
  that
• 23:30
  we
• 23:31
  were
• 23:31
  basically
• 23:32
  an
• 23:32
  adult.
• 23:32
  Entertainment
• 23:33
  website
• 23:34
  simply
• 23:34
  by
• 23:35
  using
• 23:35
  a
• 23:35
  color.
• 23:36
  Simply
• 23:37
  by
• 23:37
  using
• 23:37
  a
• 23:37
  color.
• 23:38
  And
• 23:39
  somebody
• 23:39
  else
• 23:39
  had
• 23:39
  actually
• 23:40
  darker
• 23:40
  color
• 23:40
  schemes
• 23:41
  as
• 23:41
  well,
• 23:41
  are
• 23:41
  seen
• 23:41
  as
• 23:41
  a
• 23:41
  negative
• 23:42
  because
• 23:42
  it's
• 23:42
  seen
• 23:42
  as
• 23:43
  like
• 23:43
  death.
• 23:43
  But
• 23:43
  they're
• 23:43
  like,
• 23:44
  predominantly,
• 23:44
  it's
• 23:44
  like
• 23:45
  this
• 23:45
  is
• 23:45
  either
• 23:46
  an
• 23:46
  adult
• 23:47
  entertainment
• 23:47
  site
• 23:48
  or
• 23:48
  it's
• 23:48
  some
• 23:49
  sort
• 23:49
  of
• 23:49
  illegal
• 23:49
  streaming
• 23:50
  site.
• 23:52
  So
• 23:52
  our
• 23:52
  initial
• 23:53
  thoughts
• 23:53
  were
• 23:53
  as
• 23:54
  in
• 23:54
  like
• 23:54
  the
• 23:54
  user
• 23:54
  was.
• 23:54
  Their
• 23:55
  initial
• 23:55
  thoughts
• 23:55
  were,
• 23:55
  oh,
• 23:56
  we're
• 23:56
  hesitant
• 23:56
  to
• 23:56
  use
• 23:57
  this
• 23:57
  because
• 23:57
  we
• 23:58
  assume
• 23:58
  it's
• 23:58
  not
• 23:58
  legit.
• 24:00
  And
• 24:00
  that
• 24:01
  really
• 24:01
  surprised.
• 24:01
  It
• 24:02
  was
• 24:02
  a
• 24:02
  really
• 24:02
  simple
• 24:02
  thing,
• 24:03
  but
• 24:03
  it
• 24:03
  was
• 24:03
  how
• 24:03
  you
• 24:03
  can
• 24:04
  take
• 24:04
  an
• 24:04
  assumption
• 24:05
  and
• 24:05
  even
• 24:06
  test
• 24:06
  that
• 24:06
  assumption
• 24:07
  in
• 24:08
  one
• 24:08
  place
• 24:08
  and
• 24:08
  it
• 24:09
  be
• 24:09
  proven
• 24:09
  right,
• 24:10
  but
• 24:10
  then
• 24:10
  take
• 24:10
  it
• 24:10
  somewhere
• 24:11
  else
• 24:11
  that
• 24:12
  our
• 24:12
  assumption
• 24:13
  being
• 24:13
  we've
• 24:13
  got
• 24:13
  slick
• 24:13
  ui.
• 24:14
  Everybody
• 24:15
  will
• 24:15
  find
• 24:15
  the
• 24:15
  messaging
• 24:15
  really
• 24:16
  clear.
• 24:16
  Everybody
• 24:17
  will
• 24:17
  then
• 24:18
  be
• 24:18
  drawn
• 24:19
  to.
• 24:19
  The
• 24:19
  product
• 24:20
  was
• 24:20
  flipped
• 24:20
  on
• 24:21
  its
• 24:21
  head
• 24:21
  straight
• 24:21
  away
• 24:21
  when
• 24:21
  we
• 24:22
  learned
• 24:22
  that
• 24:22
  actually
• 24:22
  the
• 24:23
  way
• 24:23
  that
• 24:23
  we
• 24:23
  were
• 24:23
  using
• 24:23
  the
• 24:24
  fonts,
• 24:24
  the
• 24:25
  way
• 24:25
  that
• 24:25
  we
• 24:25
  were
• 24:25
  using
• 24:25
  the
• 24:25
  core
• 24:26
  scheme,
• 24:26
  some
• 24:26
  very
• 24:26
  basic
• 24:26
  stuff
• 24:27
  was
• 24:27
  actually
• 24:27
  putting
• 24:28
  people
• 24:28
  off,
• 24:28
  clicking
• 24:28
  through
• 24:29
  because
• 24:29
  they
• 24:29
  assumed
• 24:29
  they
• 24:29
  would
• 24:30
  get
• 24:30
  something
• 24:30
  dodgy.
• 24:32
  And
• 24:32
  so
• 24:33
  we
• 24:33
  then
• 24:33
  had
• 24:33
  to
• 24:34
  pivot
• 24:34
  our
• 24:34
  approach
• 24:35
  to
• 24:35
  how
• 24:35
  we
• 24:35
  were
• 24:35
  marketing
• 24:36
  the
• 24:36
  landing
• 24:37
  page.
• 24:37
  We
• 24:37
  had
• 24:37
  a
• 24:37
  white
• 24:37
  version,
• 24:38
  for
• 24:38
  instance,
• 24:38
  which
• 24:38
  was
• 24:38
  on
• 24:39
  a
• 24:39
  lighter
• 24:39
  background.
• 24:39
  We
• 24:39
  changed
• 24:40
  the
• 24:40
  messaging.
• 24:41
  We
• 24:41
  started
• 24:41
  putting
• 24:42
  a
• 24:42
  lot
• 24:42
  more
• 24:42
  of
• 24:42
  our
• 24:43
  partnership
• 24:44
  brands
• 24:44
  on
• 24:44
  there
• 24:44
  because
• 24:45
  it
• 24:45
  gave
• 24:45
  it
• 24:46
  some
• 24:46
  credibility.
• 24:46
  There's
• 24:47
  a
• 24:47
  number
• 24:47
  of
• 24:47
  different
• 24:47
  things
• 24:48
  that
• 24:48
  we
• 24:48
  did
• 24:48
  in
• 24:48
  order
• 24:49
  to
• 24:49
  build
• 24:49
  that
• 24:49
  credibility
• 24:49
  up,
• 24:51
  but
• 24:51
  we
• 24:51
  had
• 24:51
  to
• 24:51
  try
• 24:51
  all
• 24:52
  these
• 24:52
  different
• 24:52
  things
• 24:53
  that
• 24:53
  we
• 24:53
  didn't
• 24:53
  have
• 24:53
  to
• 24:53
  do
• 24:54
  in
• 24:54
  Germany
• 24:54
  or
• 24:55
  many
• 24:55
  of
• 24:55
  the
• 24:55
  other
• 24:55
  European
• 24:56
  countries
• 24:56
  when
• 24:56
  we
• 24:56
  launched
• 24:56
  in
• 24:56
  those,
• 24:57
  because
• 24:57
  we
• 24:57
  just
• 24:57
  didn't
• 24:58
  need
• 24:58
  to.
• 24:58
  But
• 24:58
  in
• 24:58
  that
• 24:59
  particular
• 24:59
  market
• 25:00
  for
• 25:00
  an
• 25:00
  unknown
• 25:00
  brand,
• 25:01
  particularly
• 25:01
  a
• 25:01
  Western
• 25:02
  unknown
• 25:02
  brand
• 25:03
  in
• 25:03
  Japan,
• 25:04
  we
• 25:04
  needed
• 25:04
  to
• 25:04
  do
• 25:04
  that
• 25:05
  reinforcement
• 25:05
  because
• 25:07
  the
• 25:07
  perceived
• 25:08
  expectation
• 25:09
  of
• 25:09
  the
• 25:09
  user
• 25:09
  base
• 25:10
  was
• 25:10
  that's
• 25:10
  on
• 25:10
  a
• 25:10
  dark
• 25:11
  background,
• 25:11
  so
• 25:11
  it
• 25:11
  must
• 25:11
  be
• 25:11
  dodgy.
• 25:12
  It's
• 25:12
  interesting
• 25:13
  because
• 25:13
  there's
• 25:14
  an
• 25:14
  old
• 25:14
  saying
• 25:14
  about
• 25:16
  software
• 25:16
  that
• 25:17
  you
• 25:17
  probably
• 25:17
  hear,
• 25:19
  probably
• 25:19
  have
• 25:19
  heard
• 25:19
  a
• 25:19
  version
• 25:20
  of,
• 25:21
  I
• 25:21
  don't
• 25:21
  know
• 25:22
  the
• 25:22
  exact
• 25:22
  clone,
• 25:23
  but
• 25:23
  there
• 25:23
  are
• 25:23
  various
• 25:23
  versions
• 25:24
  of
• 25:24
  this
• 25:24
  that
• 25:24
  I
• 25:24
  hear
• 25:25
  right,
• 25:25
  is
• 25:26
  if
• 25:26
  it
• 25:27
  works
• 25:27
  for
• 25:28
  this
• 25:28
  type
• 25:28
  of
• 25:28
  user
• 25:29
  in
• 25:29
  this
• 25:29
  country,
• 25:31
  especially
• 25:31
  something
• 25:32
  simple
• 25:32
  like
• 25:33
  a
• 25:34
  streaming
• 25:34
  site.
• 25:35
  And
• 25:35
  by,
• 25:35
  by
• 25:36
  simple
• 25:36
  I
• 25:36
  mean,
• 25:36
  you
• 25:37
  know,
• 25:37
  you
• 25:37
  go
• 25:37
  on,
• 25:37
  there's
• 25:38
  a
• 25:38
  catalog
• 25:38
  of
• 25:38
  things.
• 25:39
  You
• 25:39
  watch
• 25:40
  the
• 25:40
  simple
• 25:41
  concept.
• 25:41
  Yeah,
• 25:42
  yeah.
• 25:43
  And,
• 25:43
  and
• 25:43
  actually
• 25:44
  what
• 25:44
  you're
• 25:44
  really
• 25:45
  saying
• 25:45
  is
• 25:45
  obviously
• 25:46
  cultural
• 25:47
  differences
• 25:48
  are
• 25:48
  very
• 25:49
  subtle.
• 25:49
  I
• 25:49
  mean,
• 25:49
  even
• 25:50
  Japanese
• 25:51
  being
• 25:51
  so
• 25:51
  polite
• 25:52
  as
• 25:52
  to
• 25:52
  not
• 25:52
  say
• 25:53
  anything
• 25:54
  could
• 25:54
  have,
• 25:55
  if
• 25:56
  that
• 25:56
  person
• 25:56
  hadn't
• 25:57
  been
• 25:57
  there,
• 25:58
  could
• 25:58
  have
• 25:59
  stifled
• 25:59
  the
• 25:59
  whole
• 25:59
  thing
• 26:00
  because
• 26:00
  he
• 26:00
  wouldn't
• 26:00
  have
• 26:00
  even
• 26:01
  known
• 26:01
  that
• 26:02
  this
• 26:02
  was
• 26:02
  a
• 26:02
  issue.
• 26:03
  Exactly.
• 26:03
  And
• 26:04
  as,
• 26:04
  yeah,
• 26:05
  for
• 26:05
  us
• 26:05
  and
• 26:05
  our
• 26:06
  team
• 26:06
  certainly
• 26:06
  all
• 26:06
  the.
• 26:07
  Because
• 26:07
  I
• 26:07
  was
• 26:07
  leading
• 26:07
  the
• 26:08
  UX
• 26:08
  design
• 26:09
  team
• 26:09
  at
• 26:09
  that
• 26:09
  time,
• 26:09
  so
• 26:10
  I
• 26:10
  was
• 26:10
  looking
• 26:10
  after
• 26:10
  the
• 26:11
  UX
• 26:11
  design
• 26:11
  team.
• 26:12
  And
• 26:12
  so
• 26:12
  I
• 26:12
  was
• 26:12
  taking
• 26:13
  these
• 26:13
  inputs
• 26:13
  from
• 26:13
  everywhere
• 26:14
  and
• 26:14
  kind
• 26:14
  of
• 26:14
  helping
• 26:14
  shape
• 26:15
  the
• 26:15
  sort
• 26:15
  of
• 26:16
  UX
• 26:16
  strategy
• 26:16
  for
• 26:17
  product
• 26:17
  at
• 26:17
  that
• 26:17
  point.
• 26:18
  And
• 26:18
  it
• 26:19
  made,
• 26:19
  it
• 26:19
  was
• 26:19
  a
• 26:19
  great
• 26:20
  learning
• 26:20
  opportunity
• 26:20
  because
• 26:21
  it
• 26:21
  taught
• 26:21
  me
• 26:21
  that
• 26:22
  one,
• 26:22
  I
• 26:23
  can't
• 26:23
  assume
• 26:23
  anything.
• 26:23
  I
• 26:24
  can't
• 26:24
  assume
• 26:24
  that
• 26:24
  what
• 26:25
  I
• 26:25
  believed
• 26:25
  in
• 26:25
  the
• 26:25
  past
• 26:25
  is
• 26:26
  still
• 26:26
  true,
• 26:26
  you
• 26:26
  know,
• 26:27
  so
• 26:27
  if
• 26:27
  I'm
• 26:27
  going
• 26:27
  to
• 26:27
  a
• 26:27
  new
• 26:28
  market,
• 26:28
  I
• 26:28
  can't
• 26:28
  assume
• 26:29
  that
• 26:29
  the
• 26:29
  Japanese
• 26:29
  market
• 26:30
  is
• 26:30
  the
• 26:30
  same
• 26:30
  as
• 26:30
  the
• 26:30
  UK
• 26:30
  market.
• 26:31
  And
• 26:32
  again,
• 26:32
  that
• 26:32
  sounds
• 26:32
  obvious,
• 26:32
  but
• 26:33
  you
• 26:33
  do
• 26:33
  go
• 26:33
  in
• 26:34
  with
• 26:34
  certain
• 26:34
  assumptions
• 26:35
  and
• 26:36
  you
• 26:36
  can
• 26:36
  extend
• 26:37
  that
• 26:37
  to
• 26:37
  say,
• 26:37
  well,
• 26:38
  just
• 26:38
  because
• 26:38
  you've
• 26:38
  sold
• 26:39
  one
• 26:39
  product
• 26:39
  to
• 26:39
  one
• 26:39
  type
• 26:40
  of
• 26:40
  customers
• 26:40
  doesn't
• 26:41
  mean
• 26:41
  that
• 26:41
  another
• 26:41
  type
• 26:41
  of
• 26:41
  customers,
• 26:42
  customers
• 26:42
  are
• 26:42
  going
• 26:42
  to
• 26:42
  be
• 26:42
  the
• 26:42
  same.
• 26:43
  And
• 26:44
  even
• 26:44
  within
• 26:44
  the
• 26:44
  same
• 26:45
  group
• 26:45
  of
• 26:45
  customers,
• 26:45
  you
• 26:45
  can't
• 26:46
  always
• 26:46
  Assume
• 26:46
  they're
• 26:47
  going
• 26:47
  to
• 26:47
  have
• 26:47
  the
• 26:47
  same
• 26:47
  behavior,
• 26:48
  you
• 26:48
  know,
• 26:48
  so
• 26:49
  I've
• 26:49
  seen
• 26:49
  examples
• 26:49
  of
• 26:50
  that.
• 26:50
  Since
• 26:51
  working
• 26:51
  at
• 26:51
  dzn,
• 26:51
  I've
• 26:51
  worked
• 26:52
  with
• 26:52
  a
• 26:52
  fair
• 26:52
  few
• 26:53
  sort
• 26:53
  of
• 26:54
  sporting
• 26:54
  and
• 26:54
  fitness
• 26:55
  brands.
• 26:55
  So
• 26:55
  I
• 26:55
  worked
• 26:56
  with
• 26:56
  one,
• 26:56
  a
• 26:56
  fitness
• 26:57
  mirror
• 26:57
  called
• 26:57
  VAR
• 26:59
  and
• 26:59
  a
• 26:59
  few
• 26:59
  other
• 26:59
  sort
• 27:00
  of
• 27:00
  similar
• 27:00
  types
• 27:01
  of
• 27:01
  services.
• 27:02
  And
• 27:02
  they're
• 27:02
  typically
• 27:02
  founded
• 27:03
  by
• 27:03
  people
• 27:03
  that
• 27:03
  come
• 27:04
  from
• 27:04
  like
• 27:04
  gym
• 27:04
  and
• 27:05
  sports
• 27:06
  coach
• 27:06
  backgrounds.
• 27:08
  And
• 27:08
  there
• 27:08
  you
• 27:08
  learn
• 27:09
  that
• 27:09
  sort
• 27:09
  of
• 27:09
  similar
• 27:09
  kind
• 27:09
  of
• 27:09
  thing
• 27:10
  applies
• 27:10
  where
• 27:11
  somebody
• 27:11
  joining
• 27:12
  a
• 27:12
  gym
• 27:12
  or
• 27:12
  someone
• 27:13
  starting
• 27:13
  to
• 27:14
  use
• 27:14
  a
• 27:14
  fitness
• 27:14
  product,
• 27:15
  whatever
• 27:15
  that
• 27:16
  might
• 27:16
  be,
• 27:16
  might
• 27:16
  be
• 27:17
  joining
• 27:17
  for
• 27:17
  different
• 27:17
  reasons.
• 27:18
  And
• 27:18
  you
• 27:19
  can't
• 27:19
  assume
• 27:19
  that
• 27:20
  somebody
• 27:20
  that's
• 27:20
  joining
• 27:21
  because
• 27:21
  they,
• 27:21
  they
• 27:22
  want
• 27:22
  to
• 27:22
  feel
• 27:22
  a
• 27:22
  bit
• 27:23
  fitter,
• 27:23
  lose
• 27:23
  a
• 27:23
  bit
• 27:24
  of
• 27:24
  weight
• 27:24
  and
• 27:24
  maybe
• 27:24
  look
• 27:24
  a
• 27:25
  bit
• 27:25
  more
• 27:25
  attractive
• 27:25
  is
• 27:26
  joining
• 27:26
  with
• 27:26
  the
• 27:26
  same
• 27:26
  motivations
• 27:27
  and
• 27:27
  has
• 27:27
  the
• 27:28
  same
• 27:28
  perception
• 27:28
  as
• 27:29
  somebody
• 27:29
  who's
• 27:29
  joining
• 27:30
  because
• 27:30
  they're
• 27:30
  already
• 27:30
  experienced
• 27:31
  at
• 27:31
  using
• 27:31
  a
• 27:31
  gym
• 27:32
  and
• 27:32
  just
• 27:32
  want
• 27:32
  the
• 27:32
  social
• 27:32
  elements
• 27:33
  of
• 27:33
  it.
• 27:33
  And
• 27:34
  actually
• 27:36
  the
• 27:36
  way
• 27:36
  they
• 27:36
  see
• 27:37
  the
• 27:37
  product
• 27:37
  is
• 27:37
  different.
• 27:38
  Now
• 27:38
  granted,
• 27:38
  maybe
• 27:39
  not
• 27:39
  as
• 27:39
  different
• 27:39
  as
• 27:39
  somebody
• 27:39
  from
• 27:40
  England
• 27:40
  versus
• 27:40
  Japan,
• 27:41
  but
• 27:42
  it's
• 27:42
  still
• 27:42
  different.
• 27:43
  And
• 27:43
  you
• 27:43
  still
• 27:43
  have
• 27:43
  to
• 27:43
  take
• 27:44
  that
• 27:44
  into
• 27:44
  consideration
• 27:45
  when
• 27:46
  you're
• 27:46
  looking
• 27:46
  at
• 27:46
  the
• 27:47
  data.
• 27:47
  So
• 27:48
  I
• 27:48
  see
• 27:48
  so
• 27:48
  many
• 27:48
  founders
• 27:49
  look
• 27:49
  at
• 27:49
  the
• 27:49
  number
• 27:50
  of
• 27:50
  people
• 27:50
  coming
• 27:50
  through
• 27:50
  the
• 27:51
  door.
• 27:51
  Great,
• 27:51
  we're
• 27:51
  getting
• 27:51
  X
• 27:52
  number
• 27:52
  of
• 27:52
  signups,
• 27:52
  we're
• 27:53
  getting
• 27:53
  X
• 27:53
  number
• 27:53
  of
• 27:53
  people
• 27:53
  using
• 27:53
  the
• 27:54
  product,
• 27:54
  but
• 27:54
  then
• 27:55
  we're
• 27:55
  starting
• 27:55
  to
• 27:55
  see
• 27:55
  drop
• 27:56
  offs.
• 27:56
  And
• 27:56
  I
• 27:56
  say,
• 27:56
  well,
• 27:56
  okay
• 27:57
  then,
• 27:57
  well
• 27:57
  who
• 27:57
  is
• 27:57
  it
• 27:57
  that's
• 27:58
  dropping
• 27:58
  off?
• 27:59
  And
• 27:59
  they
• 27:59
  say,
• 27:59
  well,
• 27:59
  we
• 27:59
  don't
• 27:59
  really
• 28:00
  know.
• 28:00
  Okay
• 28:00
  then,
• 28:01
  well
• 28:01
  do
• 28:01
  we,
• 28:01
  do
• 28:01
  we
• 28:01
  understand?
• 28:01
  Well,
• 28:02
  we
• 28:02
  understand
• 28:02
  what
• 28:02
  they
• 28:02
  were
• 28:02
  doing,
• 28:03
  but
• 28:03
  who
• 28:03
  were
• 28:03
  they
• 28:04
  when
• 28:04
  they
• 28:04
  came
• 28:04
  through
• 28:04
  the
• 28:05
  door?
• 28:05
  Why
• 28:05
  did
• 28:06
  they
• 28:06
  join
• 28:06
  in
• 28:06
  the
• 28:06
  first
• 28:07
  place?
• 28:07
  Do
• 28:08
  you
• 28:08
  know
• 28:08
  that?
• 28:09
  And
• 28:09
  the
• 28:09
  answer
• 28:09
  is
• 28:09
  often,
• 28:10
  well,
• 28:10
  no,
• 28:10
  it
• 28:10
  was
• 28:11
  just
• 28:11
  a
• 28:11
  new
• 28:11
  user
• 28:11
  joined
• 28:12
  the
• 28:12
  platform,
• 28:12
  they
• 28:12
  started
• 28:13
  using
• 28:13
  it.
• 28:13
  Well,
• 28:14
  you
• 28:14
  have
• 28:14
  to
• 28:14
  understand
• 28:15
  that
• 28:15
  context.
• 28:15
  One
• 28:16
  is
• 28:16
  to
• 28:16
  test
• 28:16
  your
• 28:17
  assumptions
• 28:18
  with
• 28:18
  them.
• 28:18
  But
• 28:19
  true,
• 28:19
  if
• 28:19
  you
• 28:19
  don't
• 28:19
  understand
• 28:20
  that,
• 28:20
  then
• 28:21
  you
• 28:21
  can't
• 28:21
  bucket
• 28:22
  them
• 28:22
  later
• 28:22
  on
• 28:22
  to
• 28:23
  understand
• 28:23
  why
• 28:23
  they
• 28:23
  may
• 28:24
  potentially
• 28:24
  leave
• 28:24
  further
• 28:25
  down
• 28:25
  the
• 28:25
  line
• 28:25
  or
• 28:26
  what
• 28:26
  it
• 28:26
  is
• 28:26
  about
• 28:26
  your
• 28:27
  product
• 28:27
  that
• 28:27
  they
• 28:27
  enjoy
• 28:28
  using
• 28:28
  versus
• 28:28
  what
• 28:29
  other
• 28:29
  people
• 28:29
  are
• 28:29
  using.
• 28:30
  And
• 28:30
  because
• 28:30
  by
• 28:30
  understanding
• 28:31
  that,
• 28:31
  you
• 28:31
  can
• 28:32
  either
• 28:32
  change
• 28:32
  your
• 28:32
  product
• 28:33
  strategy
• 28:33
  to
• 28:33
  focus
• 28:34
  on
• 28:34
  different
• 28:34
  needs,
• 28:34
  or
• 28:35
  maybe
• 28:35
  change
• 28:35
  your
• 28:35
  marketing
• 28:36
  strategy
• 28:36
  to
• 28:36
  focus
• 28:36
  on
• 28:37
  the
• 28:37
  people
• 28:37
  you're
• 28:37
  trying
• 28:37
  to
• 28:37
  get
• 28:37
  through
• 28:38
  the
• 28:38
  door.
• 28:38
  Or
• 28:38
  maybe
• 28:39
  you
• 28:39
  focus
• 28:39
  on
• 28:39
  your
• 28:39
  customer
• 28:40
  service
• 28:40
  strategy
• 28:41
  to
• 28:41
  over
• 28:42
  support
• 28:42
  different
• 28:42
  groups
• 28:43
  versus
• 28:43
  other
• 28:44
  groups.
• 28:44
  So
• 28:44
  you
• 28:44
  change
• 28:45
  your
• 28:45
  entire
• 28:45
  way
• 28:45
  of
• 28:46
  thinking
• 28:46
  based
• 28:46
  on
• 28:47
  just
• 28:47
  understanding
• 28:48
  that
• 28:48
  context
• 28:48
  coming
• 28:49
  in.
• 28:49
  And
• 28:50
  design
• 28:50
  was
• 28:50
  really
• 28:51
  good
• 28:51
  way
• 28:51
  of
• 28:51
  teaching
• 28:52
  us
• 28:52
  that
• 28:52
  because
• 28:52
  the
• 28:52
  way
• 28:52
  that
• 28:53
  we
• 28:53
  treated
• 28:53
  the
• 28:53
  customer
• 28:54
  lifecycle
• 28:54
  in
• 28:54
  Japan
• 28:55
  was
• 28:55
  Very
• 28:55
  different
• 28:56
  to
• 28:56
  Germany
• 28:57
  just
• 28:57
  because
• 28:57
  it
• 28:58
  was
• 28:58
  a
• 28:58
  very
• 28:58
  different
• 28:58
  audience.
• 28:59
  You
• 28:59
  touched
• 28:59
  on
• 29:00
  a
• 29:00
  couple
• 29:00
  of
• 29:00
  things
• 29:00
  that
• 29:00
  I
• 29:00
  think
• 29:01
  are
• 29:01
  really
• 29:01
  interesting.
• 29:01
  Obviously
• 29:02
  from
• 29:02
  a
• 29:03
  marketing
• 29:03
  point
• 29:03
  of
• 29:03
  view.
• 29:04
  I
• 29:04
  agree.
• 29:04
  It's
• 29:05
  fundamentally
• 29:06
  about
• 29:06
  the
• 29:06
  concept
• 29:07
  of
• 29:07
  really,
• 29:07
  really,
• 29:07
  really
• 29:08
  knowing
• 29:08
  your
• 29:08
  customer.
• 29:09
  And
• 29:09
  obviously
• 29:09
  at
• 29:09
  the
• 29:09
  beginning,
• 29:10
  when
• 29:11
  people
• 29:11
  sign
• 29:11
  up
• 29:12
  users,
• 29:12
  they
• 29:13
  want
• 29:13
  to
• 29:13
  make
• 29:13
  the
• 29:14
  journey
• 29:14
  from
• 29:15
  free
• 29:16
  trial
• 29:16
  or,
• 29:17
  you
• 29:18
  know,
• 29:18
  the,
• 29:18
  the
• 29:19
  stripe
• 29:19
  link
• 29:19
  or
• 29:20
  whatever
• 29:20
  to
• 29:20
  kick
• 29:20
  things
• 29:21
  off
• 29:21
  all
• 29:22
  the
• 29:22
  way
• 29:22
  to
• 29:22
  getting
• 29:22
  their
• 29:23
  first.
• 29:23
  Wow.
• 29:24
  Using
• 29:24
  your
• 29:24
  analogy
• 29:25
  from
• 29:25
  Dazn
• 29:27
  is
• 29:27
  as
• 29:27
  frictionless
• 29:28
  as
• 29:28
  possible.
• 29:29
  So
• 29:29
  often
• 29:29
  people
• 29:30
  don't
• 29:30
  get
• 29:30
  this
• 29:30
  information
• 29:31
  up
• 29:31
  front.
• 29:31
  Like
• 29:32
  you
• 29:32
  say,
• 29:33
  the
• 29:34
  interesting
• 29:35
  thing
• 29:35
  that
• 29:36
  I
• 29:36
  kind
• 29:36
  of
• 29:36
  wanted
• 29:37
  to
• 29:37
  ask
• 29:37
  you
• 29:38
  was
• 29:39
  you
• 29:39
  were
• 29:39
  talking
• 29:39
  about
• 29:41
  the
• 29:41
  assumption
• 29:42
  problem.
• 29:42
  Right.
• 29:43
  And
• 29:44
  how
• 29:44
  we
• 29:45
  can
• 29:45
  go
• 29:45
  in
• 29:45
  believing
• 29:46
  that,
• 29:46
  you
• 29:46
  know,
• 29:47
  everybody
• 29:47
  loves
• 29:47
  this
• 29:48
  thing.
• 29:48
  But
• 29:48
  then
• 29:49
  of
• 29:49
  course,
• 29:49
  using
• 29:49
  the
• 29:50
  fitness
• 29:50
  example,
• 29:51
  you
• 29:51
  could
• 29:51
  have
• 29:51
  somebody
• 29:52
  who
• 29:52
  maybe
• 29:53
  wants
• 29:53
  to
• 29:54
  get
• 29:55
  fit
• 29:55
  for
• 29:55
  summer
• 29:56
  or
• 29:56
  somebody
• 29:57
  who
• 29:57
  wants
• 29:58
  to
• 29:58
  go
• 29:58
  into
• 29:59
  a
• 29:59
  gym
• 29:59
  for
• 29:59
  the
• 29:59
  very
• 30:00
  first
• 30:00
  time
• 30:00
  to
• 30:00
  build
• 30:00
  their
• 30:01
  confidence.
• 30:01
  Like
• 30:01
  there's
• 30:02
  so
• 30:02
  many
• 30:03
  factors
• 30:04
  in
• 30:04
  that.
• 30:05
  How
• 30:05
  do
• 30:05
  you
• 30:05
  strike
• 30:05
  a
• 30:06
  balance
• 30:06
  from
• 30:06
  a
• 30:07
  product
• 30:07
  point
• 30:07
  of
• 30:07
  view
• 30:08
  between
• 30:08
  trying
• 30:09
  to
• 30:09
  create
• 30:09
  something
• 30:10
  that
• 30:10
  appeals
• 30:10
  to
• 30:11
  a
• 30:11
  majority
• 30:11
  of
• 30:12
  people?
• 30:13
  In
• 30:13
  the
• 30:13
  case
• 30:14
  of,
• 30:14
  you
• 30:14
  know,
• 30:15
  launching
• 30:15
  Dazn,
• 30:16
  which
• 30:16
  effectively,
• 30:17
  if
• 30:17
  you're
• 30:18
  either
• 30:18
  into
• 30:19
  sport
• 30:19
  A,
• 30:20
  B
• 30:20
  and
• 30:20
  C
• 30:20
  or
• 30:20
  not,
• 30:21
  and
• 30:21
  that's
• 30:21
  kind
• 30:21
  of
• 30:22
  a
• 30:22
  relevant
• 30:23
  starting
• 30:23
  point
• 30:24
  versus,
• 30:26
  I
• 30:26
  suppose,
• 30:26
  thinking
• 30:27
  about
• 30:27
  health
• 30:28
  and
• 30:28
  fitness,
• 30:28
  you
• 30:29
  could
• 30:29
  have
• 30:29
  your
• 30:29
  beginner,
• 30:30
  your
• 30:30
  intermediate,
• 30:30
  your
• 30:31
  advanced.
• 30:31
  The
• 30:31
  advanced
• 30:32
  person
• 30:32
  never
• 30:32
  wants
• 30:33
  to
• 30:33
  be
• 30:33
  shown
• 30:33
  around
• 30:33
  the
• 30:34
  gym.
• 30:34
  They
• 30:34
  know
• 30:34
  all
• 30:34
  the
• 30:35
  equipment.
• 30:35
  It
• 30:36
  seems
• 30:36
  obvious.
• 30:37
  Yeah,
• 30:37
  the
• 30:38
  beginner
• 30:38
  person
• 30:38
  may
• 30:39
  not.
• 30:39
  So
• 30:39
  how
• 30:39
  do
• 30:39
  you
• 30:40
  strike
• 30:40
  a
• 30:40
  balance
• 30:40
  with
• 30:41
  something
• 30:42
  like
• 30:42
  that
• 30:43
  between
• 30:44
  a
• 30:44
  sort
• 30:44
  of
• 30:44
  majority
• 30:45
  and
• 30:46
  a
• 30:46
  very
• 30:47
  tailored
• 30:48
  sort
• 30:48
  of
• 30:48
  niche
• 30:48
  focused
• 30:49
  approach?
• 30:50
  If
• 30:51
  you're
• 30:51
  a
• 30:51
  founder.
• 30:52
  Yeah,
• 30:52
  I
• 30:52
  think
• 30:52
  if
• 30:52
  you're
• 30:52
  a
• 30:52
  founder,
• 30:53
  I
• 30:53
  think
• 30:53
  it's
• 30:53
  a
• 30:53
  really
• 30:53
  good
• 30:54
  question
• 30:55
  because
• 30:55
  another
• 30:55
  challenge
• 30:56
  I've
• 30:56
  seen
• 30:56
  with
• 30:56
  founders
• 30:57
  is
• 30:57
  they
• 30:57
  try
• 30:57
  and
• 30:58
  cater
• 30:58
  to
• 30:58
  all
• 30:59
  their
• 30:59
  different
• 30:59
  customers
• 31:00
  and
• 31:00
  all
• 31:00
  their
• 31:00
  stakeholders
• 31:01
  from
• 31:02
  day
• 31:02
  one.
• 31:03
  So
• 31:03
  they
• 31:03
  will
• 31:03
  have.
• 31:04
  And
• 31:05
  maybe
• 31:05
  they've
• 31:06
  appreciated
• 31:06
  that
• 31:06
  they've
• 31:07
  got
• 31:07
  three
• 31:07
  or
• 31:07
  four
• 31:07
  different
• 31:07
  types
• 31:08
  of
• 31:08
  customers
• 31:08
  coming
• 31:09
  through
• 31:09
  the
• 31:09
  door.
• 31:10
  Maybe
• 31:10
  by
• 31:10
  the
• 31:10
  very
• 31:10
  nature
• 31:11
  of
• 31:11
  what
• 31:11
  they
• 31:11
  do,
• 31:11
  they
• 31:12
  have
• 31:12
  several
• 31:12
  customers.
• 31:13
  You
• 31:13
  know,
• 31:13
  I
• 31:13
  mentioned
• 31:14
  Hundo
• 31:15
  before.
• 31:15
  Well,
• 31:15
  the
• 31:15
  end
• 31:15
  product
• 31:16
  for
• 31:16
  Hundo
• 31:16
  had
• 31:17
  end
• 31:17
  users
• 31:17
  that
• 31:18
  were
• 31:18
  students.
• 31:18
  It
• 31:18
  worked
• 31:19
  with
• 31:19
  colleges,
• 31:19
  it
• 31:20
  worked
• 31:20
  with
• 31:20
  education
• 31:21
  boards
• 31:21
  and
• 31:21
  it
• 31:21
  worked
• 31:21
  with
• 31:22
  businesses.
• 31:22
  They
• 31:23
  were
• 31:23
  all
• 31:23
  very
• 31:23
  different
• 31:24
  types
• 31:24
  of
• 31:24
  customer
• 31:25
  that
• 31:26
  we
• 31:26
  were,
• 31:26
  that
• 31:26
  we
• 31:26
  were
• 31:26
  catering
• 31:27
  for.
• 31:28
  The
• 31:28
  way
• 31:29
  that
• 31:29
  you
• 31:29
  have
• 31:29
  to
• 31:29
  then
• 31:30
  prioritize,
• 31:30
  that
• 31:31
  is
• 31:31
  to
• 31:31
  focus,
• 31:32
  certainly
• 31:32
  as
• 31:32
  a
• 31:32
  founder,
• 31:33
  is
• 31:33
  to
• 31:33
  focus
• 31:33
  on
• 31:34
  the
• 31:34
  one
• 31:34
  or
• 31:34
  two
• 31:35
  that
• 31:35
  are
• 31:36
  going
• 31:36
  to
• 31:36
  allow
• 31:36
  you
• 31:36
  to
• 31:36
  build
• 31:36
  an
• 31:37
  MVP
• 31:37
  and
• 31:37
  prove
• 31:38
  out
• 31:38
  that
• 31:38
  you've
• 31:38
  got
• 31:38
  a
• 31:38
  business
• 31:39
  that
• 31:39
  you
• 31:39
  can
• 31:39
  actually
• 31:39
  scale.
• 31:41
  And
• 31:41
  again,
• 31:42
  something
• 31:42
  to
• 31:42
  do
• 31:42
  as
• 31:42
  a
• 31:43
  founder
• 31:43
  is
• 31:43
  not
• 31:43
  always
• 31:43
  the
• 31:44
  easy
• 31:44
  one
• 31:44
  to
• 31:44
  target.
• 31:45
  So,
• 31:45
  you
• 31:45
  know,
• 31:45
  getting
• 31:46
  people
• 31:46
  through
• 31:46
  the
• 31:47
  door,
• 31:47
  for
• 31:47
  instance,
• 31:47
  might
• 31:47
  be
• 31:47
  the
• 31:48
  easy
• 31:48
  one.
• 31:48
  If
• 31:48
  you're
• 31:48
  building
• 31:48
  an
• 31:48
  education
• 31:49
  platform
• 31:49
  or
• 31:50
  a
• 31:50
  fitness
• 31:50
  platform
• 31:51
  gym,
• 31:51
  getting
• 31:52
  people
• 31:52
  through
• 31:52
  the
• 31:52
  door
• 31:53
  feels
• 31:53
  like
• 31:53
  the
• 31:53
  obvious
• 31:54
  thing
• 31:54
  to
• 31:54
  do.
• 31:54
  But
• 31:55
  if
• 31:55
  they're
• 31:55
  not
• 31:55
  ultimately
• 31:56
  the
• 31:56
  people
• 31:56
  giving
• 31:56
  you
• 31:56
  the
• 31:57
  most
• 31:57
  money
• 31:57
  that
• 31:57
  creates
• 31:57
  you
• 31:58
  a
• 31:58
  sustainable
• 31:58
  business,
• 31:58
  they
• 31:59
  might
• 31:59
  not
• 31:59
  be
• 31:59
  the
• 31:59
  right
• 32:00
  focus.
• 32:00
  So
• 32:00
  you've
• 32:00
  got
• 32:01
  to
• 32:01
  always
• 32:02
  understand
• 32:03
  all
• 32:04
  the
• 32:04
  different,
• 32:04
  who
• 32:04
  all
• 32:05
  the
• 32:05
  different
• 32:05
  customers
• 32:05
  are,
• 32:06
  but
• 32:06
  then
• 32:06
  also
• 32:06
  understand
• 32:07
  how
• 32:07
  much
• 32:08
  value
• 32:08
  are
• 32:08
  you
• 32:08
  generating
• 32:09
  from
• 32:09
  each
• 32:09
  one
• 32:10
  to
• 32:10
  prove
• 32:10
  that
• 32:11
  you've
• 32:11
  got
• 32:11
  a
• 32:11
  scalable
• 32:12
  business,
• 32:12
  because
• 32:12
  you're
• 32:12
  still
• 32:12
  trying
• 32:13
  to
• 32:13
  build
• 32:13
  a
• 32:13
  business.
• 32:15
  So
• 32:15
  there
• 32:15
  isn't
• 32:15
  exactly
• 32:16
  a
• 32:16
  one
• 32:16
  size
• 32:17
  fits
• 32:17
  all
• 32:17
  answer
• 32:17
  to
• 32:18
  this.
• 32:18
  But
• 32:18
  the
• 32:19
  clear
• 32:19
  thing
• 32:19
  is
• 32:19
  you
• 32:19
  can't
• 32:20
  do
• 32:20
  it
• 32:20
  for
• 32:20
  all,
• 32:21
  you
• 32:22
  can't
• 32:22
  try
• 32:22
  and
• 32:22
  cater
• 32:22
  for
• 32:23
  all
• 32:23
  of
• 32:23
  them
• 32:23
  at
• 32:23
  once
• 32:24
  because
• 32:24
  you're
• 32:24
  going
• 32:24
  to
• 32:24
  get
• 32:25
  yourself
• 32:25
  stretched
• 32:26
  too
• 32:26
  far,
• 32:26
  too
• 32:26
  fast.
• 32:28
  You've
• 32:28
  got
• 32:28
  to
• 32:28
  focus
• 32:28
  on
• 32:28
  the
• 32:29
  one
• 32:29
  or
• 32:29
  two
• 32:30
  that
• 32:30
  you
• 32:30
  have
• 32:31
  enough
• 32:31
  evidence
• 32:31
  to
• 32:32
  prove
• 32:32
  that
• 32:32
  you
• 32:33
  can
• 32:33
  create
• 32:33
  a
• 32:34
  scalable
• 32:34
  business
• 32:35
  from,
• 32:35
  or
• 32:35
  at
• 32:36
  least
• 32:36
  a
• 32:36
  sustainable
• 32:36
  business
• 32:37
  from
• 32:37
  that
• 32:37
  niche
• 32:38
  and
• 32:38
  then
• 32:38
  start
• 32:38
  layering
• 32:39
  in.
• 32:40
  So
• 32:40
  to,
• 32:40
  you
• 32:40
  know,
• 32:41
  to
• 32:41
  stretch
• 32:41
  the
• 32:41
  gym
• 32:41
  analogy
• 32:42
  a
• 32:42
  bit
• 32:42
  further,
• 32:43
  it
• 32:43
  could
• 32:43
  be
• 32:43
  that
• 32:44
  people
• 32:44
  that
• 32:45
  have
• 32:45
  previously
• 32:45
  been
• 32:46
  to
• 32:46
  a
• 32:46
  gym
• 32:47
  are
• 32:48
  a
• 32:48
  low
• 32:49
  hanging
• 32:49
  fruit,
• 32:49
  they're
• 32:49
  easy
• 32:50
  to
• 32:50
  get
• 32:50
  through
• 32:50
  the
• 32:50
  door,
• 32:50
  but
• 32:51
  they're
• 32:51
  also,
• 32:51
  maybe
• 32:51
  they
• 32:52
  could
• 32:52
  bounce
• 32:52
  really
• 32:52
  easily
• 32:53
  as
• 32:53
  well
• 32:53
  because
• 32:53
  they'll
• 32:53
  come,
• 32:54
  they've
• 32:54
  got
• 32:54
  a
• 32:54
  particular
• 32:54
  goal
• 32:55
  in
• 32:55
  mind,
• 32:55
  they
• 32:55
  don't
• 32:55
  need
• 32:55
  much
• 32:56
  support,
• 32:56
  they
• 32:56
  go
• 32:56
  again
• 32:57
  as
• 32:57
  is.
• 32:57
  If
• 32:57
  you
• 32:57
  can
• 32:58
  bring
• 32:58
  those
• 32:58
  newcomers
• 32:58
  on
• 32:59
  board,
• 32:59
  you
• 32:59
  can
• 33:00
  work
• 33:00
  with
• 33:00
  them
• 33:01
  in
• 33:01
  the
• 33:01
  right
• 33:01
  type
• 33:01
  of
• 33:01
  way.
• 33:01
  You
• 33:02
  can
• 33:02
  build
• 33:02
  up
• 33:02
  some
• 33:02
  brand
• 33:03
  loyalty
• 33:03
  with
• 33:03
  them,
• 33:04
  maybe
• 33:04
  then
• 33:04
  they
• 33:05
  stay
• 33:05
  with
• 33:05
  you.
• 33:06
  That's
• 33:06
  just
• 33:06
  an
• 33:06
  example.
• 33:06
  That
• 33:07
  also
• 33:07
  may
• 33:07
  not
• 33:07
  be
• 33:07
  true,
• 33:07
  but
• 33:08
  it's
• 33:08
  like
• 33:08
  understanding
• 33:09
  what
• 33:09
  that
• 33:10
  line
• 33:10
  is
• 33:10
  and
• 33:10
  go,
• 33:10
  these
• 33:11
  are
• 33:11
  the
• 33:11
  ones
• 33:11
  we're
• 33:11
  targeting.
• 33:12
  We've
• 33:12
  got
• 33:12
  data
• 33:13
  to
• 33:13
  prove
• 33:13
  that
• 33:13
  these
• 33:14
  ones
• 33:14
  are
• 33:14
  going
• 33:14
  to
• 33:14
  be
• 33:14
  the
• 33:14
  ones
• 33:15
  that
• 33:15
  generate
• 33:15
  the
• 33:16
  most
• 33:16
  lifetime
• 33:16
  value
• 33:17
  for
• 33:17
  us.
• 33:18
  Hard
• 33:18
  to
• 33:18
  predict
• 33:18
  when
• 33:18
  you're
• 33:19
  a
• 33:19
  founder,
• 33:19
  but
• 33:19
  you've
• 33:19
  got
• 33:19
  the
• 33:19
  assumption
• 33:20
  that
• 33:20
  they
• 33:20
  are.
• 33:21
  And
• 33:21
  then
• 33:21
  you've
• 33:21
  got
• 33:21
  the
• 33:22
  right
• 33:22
  mechanisms
• 33:23
  in
• 33:23
  place
• 33:23
  to
• 33:23
  assess
• 33:24
  whether
• 33:24
  that
• 33:24
  is
• 33:24
  true
• 33:25
  as
• 33:25
  you
• 33:25
  launch
• 33:26
  the
• 33:26
  business.
• 33:27
  And
• 33:27
  then
• 33:28
  so
• 33:28
  final
• 33:29
  point
• 33:29
  is
• 33:30
  try
• 33:31
  not
• 33:31
  to
• 33:31
  get
• 33:31
  distracted
• 33:32
  by
• 33:32
  the
• 33:33
  other
• 33:33
  users
• 33:33
  as
• 33:34
  you
• 33:34
  go
• 33:34
  along.
• 33:34
  And
• 33:34
  this
• 33:34
  is
• 33:34
  a
• 33:35
  really
• 33:35
  hard
• 33:35
  point
• 33:35
  if
• 33:36
  you're
• 33:36
  catering
• 33:36
  to
• 33:37
  one
• 33:37
  or
• 33:37
  two
• 33:37
  types
• 33:37
  of
• 33:37
  customers
• 33:38
  and
• 33:38
  you
• 33:38
  have
• 33:38
  three
• 33:39
  or
• 33:39
  four,
• 33:39
  those
• 33:40
  three
• 33:40
  or
• 33:40
  four
• 33:41
  aren't,
• 33:41
  you're
• 33:42
  not
• 33:42
  meeting
• 33:42
  all
• 33:42
  their
• 33:42
  needs.
• 33:43
  You've
• 33:44
  got
• 33:44
  to
• 33:44
  find
• 33:44
  the
• 33:44
  right
• 33:44
  moment
• 33:45
  to
• 33:45
  meet
• 33:45
  their
• 33:45
  needs.
• 33:45
  Otherwise
• 33:46
  you
• 33:46
  again,
• 33:46
  you
• 33:46
  could
• 33:47
  stretch
• 33:47
  yourself
• 33:47
  too
• 33:47
  thin
• 33:48
  too
• 33:48
  soon
• 33:49
  and
• 33:49
  that
• 33:49
  leads
• 33:49
  to
• 33:49
  all
• 33:50
  sorts
• 33:50
  of
• 33:50
  trouble.
• 33:50
  The
• 33:50
  bit
• 33:51
  I
• 33:51
  was
• 33:51
  about
• 33:51
  to
• 33:51
  jump
• 33:52
  in
• 33:52
  on
• 33:52
  and
• 33:52
  ask
• 33:52
  you
• 33:53
  for
• 33:53
  those
• 33:53
  not
• 33:54
  watching,
• 33:55
  I
• 33:55
  think
• 33:55
  Scott
• 33:56
  could
• 33:56
  see
• 33:56
  that
• 33:56
  I
• 33:56
  was
• 33:57
  quite
• 33:57
  excited
• 33:57
  and
• 33:57
  wanted
• 33:58
  to
• 33:58
  ask
• 33:58
  a
• 33:58
  question.
• 33:59
  Which
• 33:59
  is
• 33:59
  why
• 33:59
  you
• 33:59
  apologize.
• 34:00
  You
• 34:00
  talked
• 34:01
  about
• 34:01
  this
• 34:01
  concept
• 34:01
  of
• 34:02
  stakeholders,
• 34:02
  right?
• 34:02
  I've
• 34:03
  seen
• 34:03
  this
• 34:03
  personally
• 34:05
  within
• 34:06
  my
• 34:06
  own
• 34:06
  marketing
• 34:07
  business
• 34:07
  where
• 34:08
  keep
• 34:08
  or
• 34:09
  infusionsoft
• 34:11
  lost
• 34:11
  touch
• 34:12
  with
• 34:12
  their
• 34:12
  partners.
• 34:13
  The
• 34:13
  partner
• 34:13
  network
• 34:14
  was
• 34:14
  kind
• 34:14
  of
• 34:15
  the
• 34:15
  marketing
• 34:16
  agency.
• 34:16
  Partners
• 34:17
  sat
• 34:17
  under
• 34:17
  keep.
• 34:18
  They
• 34:18
  were
• 34:18
  kind
• 34:19
  of
• 34:19
  the
• 34:19
  frontline
• 34:19
  people
• 34:20
  dealing
• 34:21
  with
• 34:21
  customers
• 34:21
  on
• 34:22
  a
• 34:22
  much
• 34:22
  more
• 34:23
  one
• 34:24
  to
• 34:24
  one
• 34:24
  level
• 34:24
  than
• 34:25
  they
• 34:25
  ever
• 34:25
  could
• 34:25
  at
• 34:26
  scale.
• 34:26
  A
• 34:26
  bit
• 34:26
  like
• 34:26
  how
• 34:27
  agencies
• 34:27
  work
• 34:28
  with
• 34:28
  Google
• 34:29
  because
• 34:30
  they
• 34:30
  can
• 34:30
  build
• 34:30
  those
• 34:30
  relationships
• 34:31
  and
• 34:31
  really
• 34:31
  understand
• 34:32
  the
• 34:32
  customer.
• 34:33
  Inevitably,
• 34:35
  as
• 34:35
  a
• 34:35
  company
• 34:36
  scales,
• 34:37
  it's
• 34:37
  so
• 34:37
  much
• 34:38
  harder
• 34:38
  so
• 34:38
  the
• 34:38
  founder
• 34:39
  could
• 34:39
  sit
• 34:40
  down
• 34:40
  with
• 34:41
  their
• 34:41
  best
• 34:41
  customers,
• 34:42
  right.
• 34:42
  And
• 34:43
  really
• 34:43
  listen
• 34:43
  to
• 34:43
  the
• 34:43
  feedback.
• 34:44
  But
• 34:44
  inevitably
• 34:45
  as
• 34:45
  a
• 34:45
  company
• 34:45
  scales,
• 34:46
  you
• 34:46
  know
• 34:46
  where
• 34:46
  I'm
• 34:46
  going
• 34:47
  with
• 34:47
  this?
• 34:48
  A
• 34:48
  product
• 34:49
  roadmap
• 34:49
  gets
• 34:49
  bigger.
• 34:50
  Things
• 34:50
  are
• 34:50
  constantly
• 34:51
  changing
• 34:51
  and
• 34:51
  maybe
• 34:52
  there's
• 34:52
  even
• 34:52
  investor
• 34:53
  pressure
• 34:54
  where
• 34:54
  they
• 34:54
  demand
• 34:54
  speed.
• 34:56
  In
• 34:57
  your
• 34:57
  mind,
• 34:58
  from
• 34:58
  a
• 34:58
  product
• 34:59
  point
• 34:59
  of
• 34:59
  view,
• 35:00
  how
• 35:00
  does
• 35:00
  a
• 35:01
  founder
• 35:01
  balance
• 35:02
  the
• 35:02
  need
• 35:02
  for
• 35:04
  fast
• 35:04
  execution
• 35:05
  against
• 35:06
  patience
• 35:07
  of
• 35:07
  a
• 35:08
  bigger
• 35:08
  vision
• 35:10
  when
• 35:11
  they've
• 35:12
  obviously
• 35:12
  got
• 35:12
  to
• 35:12
  balance
• 35:13
  that
• 35:13
  idea
• 35:13
  of
• 35:14
  long
• 35:15
  term
• 35:15
  value
• 35:15
  churn
• 35:17
  lifetime
• 35:17
  customer
• 35:18
  value.
• 35:18
  They've
• 35:18
  got
• 35:18
  all
• 35:19
  of
• 35:19
  these
• 35:19
  things
• 35:19
  going
• 35:20
  on.
• 35:21
  How
• 35:21
  do
• 35:22
  they
• 35:22
  stay
• 35:22
  connected
• 35:24
  from
• 35:24
  a
• 35:24
  product
• 35:25
  perspective
• 35:25
  when
• 35:26
  as
• 35:26
  you
• 35:27
  scale,
• 35:27
  you
• 35:27
  get
• 35:27
  more
• 35:28
  distant
• 35:28
  inevitably?
• 35:29
  I
• 35:30
  think
• 35:30
  that
• 35:30
  is
• 35:30
  a
• 35:30
  really
• 35:30
  good
• 35:31
  question
• 35:31
  and
• 35:31
  I
• 35:31
  think
• 35:31
  that
• 35:32
  impacts
• 35:32
  to
• 35:32
  any
• 35:33
  founders
• 35:33
  out
• 35:33
  there.
• 35:34
  Every
• 35:34
  single
• 35:35
  founder
• 35:35
  I've
• 35:35
  known
• 35:36
  who's
• 35:36
  been
• 35:36
  through
• 35:36
  that
• 35:36
  growth
• 35:37
  journey,
• 35:37
  who
• 35:38
  scaled
• 35:38
  their
• 35:39
  business
• 35:39
  has
• 35:39
  had
• 35:40
  this
• 35:40
  conversation
• 35:41
  at
• 35:41
  some
• 35:41
  point
• 35:42
  during
• 35:42
  that
• 35:42
  journey.
• 35:43
  Either
• 35:43
  when
• 35:43
  they
• 35:43
  brought
• 35:43
  someone
• 35:44
  like
• 35:44
  ourselves
• 35:44
  in
• 35:44
  to
• 35:45
  support
• 35:45
  or
• 35:46
  in
• 35:46
  internally,
• 35:47
  there
• 35:47
  becomes
• 35:47
  this
• 35:48
  point
• 35:48
  when
• 35:49
  the
• 35:49
  founder
• 35:50
  or
• 35:50
  the
• 35:50
  founders
• 35:51
  or
• 35:52
  the
• 35:52
  leadership
• 35:52
  team,
• 35:53
  their
• 35:53
  attention
• 35:54
  gets
• 35:54
  stretched
• 35:55
  and
• 35:55
  where
• 35:56
  they're
• 35:56
  focusing,
• 35:56
  their
• 35:57
  attention
• 35:58
  gets
• 35:58
  stretched
• 35:58
  to
• 35:59
  the
• 35:59
  point
• 35:59
  where
• 35:59
  they
• 35:59
  can
• 35:59
  no
• 35:59
  longer
• 36:00
  know
• 36:00
  the
• 36:00
  detail
• 36:00
  anymore.
• 36:01
  And
• 36:01
  they
• 36:01
  get,
• 36:02
  they
• 36:02
  get
• 36:02
  pulled
• 36:02
  away
• 36:03
  from
• 36:03
  some
• 36:03
  of
• 36:03
  this.
• 36:04
  What
• 36:05
  was
• 36:05
  core
• 36:05
  information,
• 36:06
  which
• 36:07
  can
• 36:07
  lead
• 36:07
  to
• 36:07
  some
• 36:07
  of
• 36:07
  those
• 36:07
  blind
• 36:08
  spots
• 36:08
  we
• 36:08
  talked
• 36:08
  about
• 36:08
  before
• 36:09
  where
• 36:09
  they're
• 36:09
  relying
• 36:10
  on
• 36:10
  assumption
• 36:11
  because
• 36:11
  it's
• 36:11
  all
• 36:11
  they
• 36:11
  actually
• 36:12
  know
• 36:12
  is
• 36:12
  assumption.
• 36:13
  I
• 36:14
  think
• 36:15
  some
• 36:15
  of
• 36:15
  the
• 36:15
  ways
• 36:16
  that
• 36:16
  you
• 36:16
  can
• 36:16
  tackle
• 36:16
  that,
• 36:17
  certainly
• 36:17
  as
• 36:18
  you're
• 36:18
  growing,
• 36:18
  your
• 36:18
  business
• 36:19
  is
• 36:20
  going
• 36:20
  back
• 36:20
  to
• 36:21
  what
• 36:21
  we
• 36:21
  talked
• 36:21
  about
• 36:21
  before
• 36:22
  with
• 36:23
  focusing
• 36:24
  on
• 36:24
  outcomes.
• 36:25
  So
• 36:25
  outcomes
• 36:26
  are
• 36:26
  unlikely
• 36:27
  to
• 36:27
  change,
• 36:28
  or
• 36:28
  at
• 36:28
  least
• 36:28
  they
• 36:29
  will
• 36:29
  change
• 36:29
  when
• 36:29
  you
• 36:29
  get
• 36:29
  more
• 36:29
  information.
• 36:30
  But
• 36:30
  if
• 36:30
  you
• 36:31
  know
• 36:31
  there's
• 36:31
  a
• 36:31
  certain
• 36:32
  type
• 36:32
  of
• 36:32
  behavior
• 36:32
  you're
• 36:33
  trying
• 36:33
  to
• 36:33
  drive,
• 36:34
  you
• 36:34
  know,
• 36:35
  we
• 36:35
  want
• 36:35
  to
• 36:35
  get
• 36:35
  people
• 36:35
  through
• 36:36
  the
• 36:36
  door
• 36:36
  to
• 36:36
  exercise
• 36:37
  three
• 36:37
  Times
• 36:37
  a
• 36:37
  week.
• 36:38
  We
• 36:38
  want
• 36:38
  them
• 36:38
  to
• 36:38
  watch
• 36:38
  two
• 36:39
  shows
• 36:39
  on
• 36:39
  our
• 36:39
  streaming
• 36:40
  service
• 36:41
  each
• 36:41
  week.
• 36:42
  We
• 36:43
  want
• 36:43
  them
• 36:43
  to,
• 36:44
  you
• 36:44
  know,
• 36:44
  we've
• 36:45
  got
• 36:45
  a
• 36:45
  project
• 36:45
  management
• 36:45
  system
• 36:46
  and
• 36:46
  we
• 36:46
  want
• 36:46
  them
• 36:46
  to
• 36:47
  add
• 36:47
  three
• 36:48
  tickets
• 36:48
  a
• 36:48
  month,
• 36:48
  whatever
• 36:48
  it
• 36:49
  might
• 36:49
  be.
• 36:49
  You
• 36:49
  know,
• 36:49
  we've
• 36:50
  got
• 36:50
  a
• 36:50
  behavior
• 36:50
  that
• 36:51
  we're
• 36:51
  trying
• 36:51
  to
• 36:51
  drive
• 36:52
  and
• 36:52
  we've
• 36:52
  got
• 36:52
  a
• 36:52
  way
• 36:52
  of
• 36:52
  measuring
• 36:53
  that
• 36:53
  behavior
• 36:53
  that
• 36:54
  we're
• 36:54
  trying
• 36:54
  to
• 36:54
  drive.
• 36:55
  Use
• 36:55
  that
• 36:56
  to
• 36:56
  align
• 36:56
  all
• 36:57
  the
• 36:57
  different
• 36:57
  functional
• 36:58
  of
• 36:58
  your
• 36:58
  business.
• 36:59
  So
• 36:59
  customer
• 37:00
  service,
• 37:01
  operations,
• 37:02
  finance,
• 37:03
  product
• 37:04
  tech,
• 37:04
  ux,
• 37:05
  people
• 37:05
  on
• 37:06
  the
• 37:06
  shop
• 37:06
  floor,
• 37:07
  whoever
• 37:07
  it
• 37:08
  might
• 37:08
  be,
• 37:08
  are
• 37:08
  all
• 37:09
  aligned
• 37:09
  around
• 37:09
  the
• 37:10
  outcome
• 37:10
  and
• 37:11
  then
• 37:11
  measure
• 37:11
  those
• 37:11
  outcomes
• 37:12
  and
• 37:12
  ensure
• 37:12
  that
• 37:12
  there's
• 37:13
  super
• 37:13
  amounts
• 37:13
  of
• 37:13
  transparency
• 37:14
  with
• 37:14
  those
• 37:15
  measures
• 37:16
  so
• 37:16
  that
• 37:16
  you
• 37:17
  as
• 37:17
  a
• 37:17
  leader
• 37:17
  can
• 37:18
  see
• 37:18
  those.
• 37:18
  You
• 37:19
  might
• 37:19
  not
• 37:19
  necessarily
• 37:19
  know
• 37:20
  what's
• 37:20
  underneath
• 37:21
  it,
• 37:21
  but
• 37:21
  you
• 37:21
  can
• 37:21
  see
• 37:22
  what's
• 37:22
  impacting
• 37:22
  it.
• 37:22
  So
• 37:23
  you
• 37:23
  can
• 37:23
  see
• 37:24
  the
• 37:24
  different
• 37:24
  behaviors,
• 37:25
  the
• 37:25
  measures
• 37:25
  that
• 37:25
  sit
• 37:26
  under
• 37:26
  that
• 37:26
  behaviors
• 37:27
  and
• 37:27
  then
• 37:27
  have
• 37:27
  an
• 37:27
  easy
• 37:28
  mechanism
• 37:28
  to
• 37:28
  be
• 37:28
  able
• 37:29
  to
• 37:29
  find
• 37:29
  out
• 37:29
  and
• 37:29
  dig
• 37:29
  into
• 37:30
  what's
• 37:30
  actually
• 37:30
  driving
• 37:31
  it
• 37:31
  a
• 37:31
  bit
• 37:31
  more.
• 37:33
  And
• 37:33
  the
• 37:33
  reason
• 37:33
  why
• 37:33
  I
• 37:34
  think
• 37:34
  that's
• 37:34
  incredibly
• 37:34
  important
• 37:35
  is
• 37:35
  it
• 37:36
  keeps.
• 37:37
  It
• 37:37
  means
• 37:37
  you
• 37:37
  don't
• 37:37
  have
• 37:38
  to
• 37:38
  know
• 37:38
  the
• 37:38
  detail
• 37:38
  of
• 37:39
  what
• 37:39
  a
• 37:39
  product
• 37:39
  team
• 37:39
  is
• 37:40
  necessarily
• 37:40
  doing
• 37:41
  because
• 37:41
  you
• 37:41
  can
• 37:41
  see
• 37:42
  the
• 37:42
  impacts
• 37:42
  of
• 37:42
  what
• 37:43
  the
• 37:43
  collective
• 37:43
  business
• 37:44
  is
• 37:44
  doing
• 37:45
  and
• 37:45
  everybody
• 37:46
  should
• 37:46
  be
• 37:46
  aligned.
• 37:47
  When
• 37:47
  you
• 37:47
  need
• 37:48
  to,
• 37:48
  you
• 37:48
  can
• 37:48
  then
• 37:48
  dig
• 37:48
  into
• 37:49
  the
• 37:49
  detail.
• 37:49
  But
• 37:50
  it
• 37:50
  gives
• 37:50
  you
• 37:50
  that
• 37:51
  high
• 37:51
  level
• 37:51
  view
• 37:52
  and
• 37:52
  it's
• 37:53
  more
• 37:53
  useful
• 37:53
  than
• 37:54
  just
• 37:54
  seeing
• 37:54
  a
• 37:54
  KPI
• 37:55
  of
• 37:55
  retention
• 37:56
  or
• 37:56
  of
• 37:57
  numbers
• 37:57
  of
• 37:57
  people
• 37:58
  through
• 37:58
  the
• 37:58
  door.
• 37:58
  So
• 37:59
  if
• 37:59
  I
• 37:59
  see
• 37:59
  retention
• 37:59
  figures
• 38:00
  from
• 38:00
  a
• 38:00
  business
• 38:01
  perspective,
• 38:02
  if
• 38:02
  I
• 38:02
  know
• 38:03
  that
• 38:03
  I've
• 38:03
  got
• 38:03
  churn
• 38:04
  and
• 38:04
  12%
• 38:05
  of
• 38:05
  my
• 38:05
  customers
• 38:05
  are
• 38:06
  churning
• 38:06
  each
• 38:06
  month,
• 38:07
  big
• 38:07
  red
• 38:07
  flag
• 38:07
  going,
• 38:08
  12%
• 38:08
  of
• 38:08
  my
• 38:08
  customers,
• 38:09
  why
• 38:09
  are
• 38:09
  they
• 38:09
  leaving?
• 38:10
  Was
• 38:10
  it
• 38:10
  a
• 38:10
  customer
• 38:11
  service
• 38:11
  problem?
• 38:11
  Is
• 38:12
  it
• 38:12
  a
• 38:12
  product
• 38:12
  problem?
• 38:13
  Is
• 38:13
  it
• 38:13
  as
• 38:14
  a
• 38:14
  new
• 38:14
  product
• 38:14
  on
• 38:14
  the
• 38:14
  market,
• 38:15
  Is
• 38:16
  it
• 38:16
  summer?
• 38:16
  And
• 38:16
  nobody
• 38:16
  actually
• 38:17
  uses
• 38:17
  our
• 38:17
  approach
• 38:17
  in
• 38:17
  the
• 38:17
  summer
• 38:18
  because
• 38:18
  we're
• 38:18
  all
• 38:18
  going
• 38:18
  out
• 38:18
  for
• 38:18
  a
• 38:19
  run.
• 38:19
  I
• 38:19
  don't
• 38:20
  know.
• 38:20
  As
• 38:20
  if
• 38:21
  you
• 38:21
  know
• 38:21
  there's
• 38:22
  a
• 38:22
  team
• 38:22
  of
• 38:22
  people
• 38:22
  who
• 38:23
  are
• 38:23
  solely
• 38:23
  responsible
• 38:24
  for
• 38:24
  driving
• 38:24
  behaviors
• 38:25
  in
• 38:25
  that
• 38:25
  particular
• 38:26
  space
• 38:26
  that
• 38:26
  is
• 38:26
  connected
• 38:27
  to
• 38:27
  that,
• 38:28
  then
• 38:28
  you
• 38:28
  can
• 38:28
  have
• 38:28
  a
• 38:28
  conversation
• 38:29
  with
• 38:29
  that
• 38:29
  team
• 38:29
  is
• 38:29
  across
• 38:30
  all
• 38:30
  those
• 38:30
  different
• 38:30
  areas.
• 38:31
  And
• 38:31
  I
• 38:31
  think
• 38:31
  that's
• 38:32
  really
• 38:32
  important
• 38:33
  is
• 38:33
  to
• 38:33
  always
• 38:34
  focus
• 38:34
  on
• 38:34
  the
• 38:34
  outcomes
• 38:35
  because
• 38:35
  that
• 38:35
  scales
• 38:36
  better
• 38:37
  than
• 38:38
  focusing
• 38:38
  on
• 38:38
  what's
• 38:38
  on
• 38:39
  the
• 38:39
  roadmap,
• 38:39
  focusing
• 38:40
  on
• 38:40
  delivery,
• 38:41
  focusing
• 38:41
  on
• 38:42
  the
• 38:42
  things
• 38:42
  underneath
• 38:42
  it.
• 38:43
  It's
• 38:43
  not
• 38:43
  that
• 38:43
  they're
• 38:43
  not
• 38:43
  important,
• 38:44
  it's
• 38:45
  just
• 38:45
  that
• 38:45
  as
• 38:45
  a
• 38:45
  leader
• 38:46
  you
• 38:46
  should
• 38:47
  be
• 38:47
  concerned
• 38:48
  about
• 38:48
  the
• 38:48
  outcomes
• 38:49
  that
• 38:49
  your
• 38:49
  organization
• 38:50
  is
• 38:50
  driving.
• 38:51
  Not
• 38:52
  sure
• 38:52
  if
• 38:52
  that
• 38:52
  answers
• 38:52
  the
• 38:52
  question.
• 38:53
  Yeah,
• 38:54
  it
• 38:55
  does.
• 38:55
  I
• 38:55
  just
• 38:56
  thought
• 38:56
  I'd
• 38:57
  make
• 38:57
  sure
• 38:57
  that
• 38:58
  I
• 38:58
  Fully
• 38:58
  understood
• 38:59
  it.
• 38:59
  And
• 38:59
  for
• 38:59
  you,
• 39:00
  listening,
• 39:01
  for
• 39:01
  me,
• 39:01
  what
• 39:01
  I
• 39:02
  took
• 39:02
  from
• 39:02
  what
• 39:02
  you
• 39:03
  said
• 39:03
  is,
• 39:04
  look,
• 39:04
  inevitably
• 39:05
  as
• 39:05
  we
• 39:06
  scale,
• 39:06
  as
• 39:06
  we
• 39:06
  grow,
• 39:08
  I'm
• 39:08
  a
• 39:08
  founder,
• 39:09
  I'm
• 39:09
  going
• 39:09
  to
• 39:09
  get
• 39:09
  pulled
• 39:10
  in
• 39:10
  50
• 39:10
  different
• 39:10
  directions
• 39:11
  instead
• 39:11
  of
• 39:11
  two
• 39:12
  or
• 39:12
  10
• 39:12
  or
• 39:13
  whatever.
• 39:13
  Right.
• 39:14
  And
• 39:15
  what
• 39:15
  you're
• 39:15
  talking
• 39:16
  about
• 39:16
  is
• 39:16
  the
• 39:16
  idea
• 39:17
  of
• 39:18
  almost
• 39:18
  having
• 39:19
  a
• 39:20
  dashboard,
• 39:21
  whether
• 39:21
  in
• 39:21
  real
• 39:21
  life
• 39:22
  or
• 39:22
  not,
• 39:23
  some
• 39:23
  sort
• 39:23
  of
• 39:23
  way
• 39:23
  of
• 39:24
  looking
• 39:24
  at
• 39:25
  what
• 39:25
  is
• 39:25
  the
• 39:25
  outcome
• 39:26
  and
• 39:27
  what
• 39:28
  is
• 39:28
  the
• 39:28
  impact.
• 39:30
  And
• 39:30
  impact
• 39:31
  meaning
• 39:32
  being
• 39:33
  close
• 39:33
  to
• 39:33
  the,
• 39:34
  close
• 39:34
  to
• 39:34
  the
• 39:35
  customer.
• 39:35
  So
• 39:35
  when
• 39:35
  you
• 39:35
  talked
• 39:36
  about
• 39:36
  the
• 39:36
  shop
• 39:36
  for.
• 39:36
  It's
• 39:37
  a
• 39:37
  great
• 39:37
  mental
• 39:38
  way
• 39:38
  of
• 39:38
  thinking
• 39:38
  about
• 39:39
  this.
• 39:39
  It's
• 39:39
  different
• 39:39
  obviously
• 39:40
  in
• 39:40
  software
• 39:41
  for
• 39:41
  the
• 39:41
  most
• 39:42
  part,
• 39:42
  but
• 39:43
  the
• 39:43
  idea,
• 39:43
  who's
• 39:44
  closest
• 39:44
  to
• 39:44
  the
• 39:44
  customer
• 39:45
  and,
• 39:46
  you
• 39:46
  know,
• 39:46
  how
• 39:46
  are
• 39:47
  we
• 39:47
  measuring
• 39:47
  impact
• 39:48
  and,
• 39:49
  you
• 39:49
  know,
• 39:50
  keeping
• 39:50
  true
• 39:51
  to
• 39:51
  that
• 39:51
  sort
• 39:51
  of
• 39:51
  outcome,
• 39:52
  we're
• 39:52
  trying
• 39:52
  to
• 39:53
  drive.
• 39:53
  Yeah.
• 39:53
  And
• 39:54
  I
• 39:54
  think
• 39:54
  you've
• 39:54
  articulated
• 39:55
  that
• 39:55
  really
• 39:55
  well
• 39:55
  because
• 39:56
  that
• 39:56
  notion
• 39:57
  of
• 39:57
  distance,
• 39:57
  you
• 39:58
  taught
• 39:58
  me
• 39:58
  well.
• 40:01
  Thank
• 40:01
  you.
• 40:01
  Yeah.
• 40:02
  That
• 40:02
  notion
• 40:02
  of
• 40:02
  like
• 40:03
  distance
• 40:03
  from
• 40:03
  customer,
• 40:04
  it
• 40:04
  comes
• 40:05
  up
• 40:05
  time
• 40:05
  and
• 40:05
  time
• 40:05
  again.
• 40:06
  If
• 40:06
  you're
• 40:07
  measuring
• 40:07
  outcomes,
• 40:07
  then
• 40:08
  you're
• 40:08
  measuring
• 40:08
  an
• 40:09
  action
• 40:09
  that
• 40:09
  a
• 40:10
  customer's
• 40:10
  taking.
• 40:11
  Um,
• 40:11
  so
• 40:11
  even
• 40:11
  if
• 40:12
  you
• 40:12
  are
• 40:12
  several
• 40:12
  steps
• 40:13
  away
• 40:13
  from
• 40:13
  people
• 40:14
  on
• 40:14
  the
• 40:14
  shop
• 40:14
  floor
• 40:14
  is,
• 40:15
  it
• 40:15
  is
• 40:15
  a,
• 40:15
  it's
• 40:16
  a
• 40:16
  very
• 40:16
  tangible
• 40:16
  example.
• 40:17
  But,
• 40:17
  you
• 40:18
  know,
• 40:18
  even
• 40:18
  if
• 40:18
  it's
• 40:18
  somebody
• 40:19
  sat
• 40:19
  behind
• 40:19
  your
• 40:19
  mobile
• 40:19
  app
• 40:20
  or
• 40:20
  it's
• 40:20
  somebody
• 40:21
  sat
• 40:21
  behind
• 40:21
  a
• 40:21
  website,
• 40:22
  if
• 40:22
  you're
• 40:23
  looking
• 40:23
  at
• 40:23
  the
• 40:23
  outcomes
• 40:24
  that
• 40:24
  you're
• 40:24
  trying
• 40:24
  to
• 40:24
  drive
• 40:25
  from
• 40:25
  a
• 40:25
  leadership
• 40:25
  perspective,
• 40:26
  then
• 40:26
  you're,
• 40:27
  you,
• 40:27
  you're
• 40:27
  getting
• 40:28
  in
• 40:28
  theory,
• 40:28
  the
• 40:29
  same
• 40:29
  information
• 40:30
  as
• 40:30
  the
• 40:30
  people
• 40:31
  that
• 40:31
  are
• 40:31
  having
• 40:31
  the
• 40:31
  conversations
• 40:32
  with
• 40:32
  your
• 40:32
  customers
• 40:33
  are.
• 40:33
  You
• 40:33
  know,
• 40:33
  you
• 40:33
  should
• 40:34
  make
• 40:34
  sure
• 40:34
  that
• 40:34
  your,
• 40:34
  the
• 40:35
  data
• 40:35
  collection
• 40:35
  and
• 40:35
  the
• 40:36
  way
• 40:36
  that's
• 40:36
  being
• 40:36
  pulled
• 40:36
  in
• 40:37
  is
• 40:37
  allowing
• 40:37
  you
• 40:37
  to
• 40:37
  have,
• 40:37
  have
• 40:38
  that
• 40:38
  same
• 40:38
  information
• 40:38
  as
• 40:39
  they're
• 40:39
  having,
• 40:39
  so
• 40:40
  you're
• 40:40
  not
• 40:40
  one
• 40:40
  step
• 40:41
  away.
• 40:41
  Again,
• 40:42
  that's
• 40:42
  why
• 40:44
  metrics
• 40:44
  such
• 40:45
  as
• 40:45
  conversions,
• 40:46
  such
• 40:46
  as
• 40:46
  retention
• 40:47
  rates,
• 40:47
  such
• 40:48
  as
• 40:48
  daily
• 40:48
  active
• 40:48
  users,
• 40:49
  they're
• 40:49
  all
• 40:49
  important,
• 40:50
  but
• 40:51
  they
• 40:51
  don't
• 40:51
  tell
• 40:51
  you
• 40:51
  the
• 40:52
  story.
• 40:53
  Outcome
• 40:53
  should
• 40:54
  help
• 40:54
  tell
• 40:54
  you
• 40:54
  the
• 40:54
  story.
• 40:55
  Because
• 40:55
  if
• 40:56
  you're
• 40:56
  looking
• 40:56
  at
• 40:56
  whether
• 40:57
  somebody's,
• 40:58
  whether
• 40:58
  people
• 40:59
  are
• 40:59
  actually
• 40:59
  behaving
• 40:59
  as
• 41:00
  you
• 41:00
  expected,
• 41:00
  these
• 41:01
  are
• 41:01
  or
• 41:01
  they
• 41:01
  aren't.
• 41:02
  And
• 41:02
  you
• 41:02
  can
• 41:02
  measure
• 41:02
  whether
• 41:03
  they
• 41:03
  are
• 41:03
  or
• 41:03
  aren't
• 41:03
  want.
• 41:04
  And
• 41:05
  then
• 41:05
  that
• 41:05
  allows
• 41:05
  you
• 41:05
  to
• 41:06
  then
• 41:06
  do
• 41:06
  something
• 41:06
  about
• 41:07
  that
• 41:07
  as
• 41:07
  opposed
• 41:08
  to
• 41:08
  seeing
• 41:08
  your
• 41:08
  churn
• 41:09
  level
• 41:09
  go
• 41:09
  up
• 41:09
  and
• 41:09
  having
• 41:10
  no
• 41:10
  idea.
• 41:10
  And
• 41:11
  the
• 41:11
  reason
• 41:11
  why
• 41:11
  your
• 41:11
  churn
• 41:11
  level
• 41:11
  is
• 41:12
  a
• 41:12
  great
• 41:12
  example.
• 41:12
  We
• 41:13
  used,
• 41:13
  we
• 41:13
  came
• 41:14
  to
• 41:14
  this
• 41:14
  kind
• 41:14
  of
• 41:14
  same
• 41:14
  theory
• 41:15
  in
• 41:15
  Dazn
• 41:16
  because
• 41:16
  we
• 41:16
  look
• 41:16
  at
• 41:17
  churn
• 41:17
  levels
• 41:17
  and
• 41:17
  then
• 41:18
  I
• 41:18
  remember
• 41:18
  as
• 41:18
  I
• 41:18
  sitting
• 41:19
  there
• 41:19
  in
• 41:19
  one
• 41:19
  meeting,
• 41:19
  we
• 41:19
  used
• 41:19
  to
• 41:20
  have
• 41:20
  regular
• 41:20
  product
• 41:20
  meetings.
• 41:21
  We
• 41:21
  Sit
• 41:21
  there,
• 41:21
  we're
• 41:21
  looking
• 41:21
  at
• 41:22
  churn
• 41:22
  levels.
• 41:22
  It's
• 41:22
  like,
• 41:22
  well,
• 41:23
  we
• 41:23
  can
• 41:23
  see
• 41:23
  there's
• 41:24
  been
• 41:24
  a
• 41:24
  blip
• 41:24
  in
• 41:24
  churn
• 41:25
  levels.
• 41:25
  But
• 41:26
  we
• 41:26
  asked
• 41:26
  the
• 41:26
  question,
• 41:27
  we
• 41:27
  didn't
• 41:27
  actually
• 41:27
  know
• 41:27
  why
• 41:28
  and
• 41:28
  that's
• 41:28
  why
• 41:28
  we
• 41:29
  went
• 41:29
  down
• 41:29
  this
• 41:29
  approach
• 41:29
  of,
• 41:30
  well,
• 41:30
  what
• 41:30
  are
• 41:30
  the
• 41:30
  outcomes?
• 41:31
  What
• 41:31
  we
• 41:31
  try
• 41:31
  and
• 41:31
  drive.
• 41:32
  We
• 41:32
  should
• 41:32
  be
• 41:32
  able
• 41:32
  to
• 41:32
  predict
• 41:33
  when
• 41:33
  there's
• 41:33
  going
• 41:33
  to
• 41:33
  be
• 41:34
  a
• 41:34
  blip
• 41:34
  in
• 41:34
  churn
• 41:35
  because
• 41:36
  we
• 41:36
  should
• 41:36
  have
• 41:36
  that
• 41:36
  holistic
• 41:37
  view.
• 41:37
  And
• 41:38
  that
• 41:38
  was
• 41:38
  one
• 41:38
  of
• 41:38
  the
• 41:38
  things
• 41:38
  that
• 41:39
  led
• 41:39
  to
• 41:39
  kind
• 41:39
  of
• 41:39
  this
• 41:39
  more
• 41:40
  outcome
• 41:40
  based
• 41:40
  approach
• 41:41
  where
• 41:41
  we
• 41:41
  could
• 41:41
  say,
• 41:41
  well,
• 41:41
  if
• 41:41
  we're
• 41:42
  focusing
• 41:42
  on
• 41:42
  the
• 41:42
  outcomes,
• 41:42
  then
• 41:43
  in
• 41:43
  some
• 41:43
  respects
• 41:44
  we
• 41:44
  can
• 41:44
  start
• 41:44
  to
• 41:44
  predict
• 41:45
  when
• 41:45
  we're
• 41:45
  going
• 41:45
  to
• 41:45
  have
• 41:45
  a
• 41:46
  blip
• 41:46
  in
• 41:46
  churn
• 41:46
  because
• 41:47
  we
• 41:47
  can
• 41:47
  see
• 41:47
  the
• 41:47
  outcomes
• 41:48
  are
• 41:48
  starting
• 41:48
  to
• 41:48
  shift
• 41:49
  before
• 41:49
  that.
• 41:50
  And
• 41:51
  it
• 41:51
  just
• 41:51
  changes
• 41:52
  your
• 41:52
  focus
• 41:52
  and
• 41:52
  brings
• 41:53
  you
• 41:53
  that
• 41:53
  one
• 41:53
  step
• 41:53
  closer
• 41:54
  to
• 41:54
  the
• 41:54
  customer
• 41:54
  and
• 41:55
  in
• 41:55
  theory
• 41:55
  brings
• 41:55
  everybody
• 41:56
  one
• 41:56
  step
• 41:56
  closer
• 41:57
  to.
• 41:57
  To
• 41:57
  the
• 41:57
  customer.
• 41:57
  Because
• 41:58
  the
• 41:58
  numbers
• 41:58
  you're
• 41:58
  looking
• 41:58
  at
• 41:59
  or
• 41:59
  the
• 41:59
  measures
• 41:59
  you're
• 41:59
  looking
• 41:59
  at
• 42:00
  are
• 42:00
  directly
• 42:01
  related
• 42:01
  to
• 42:01
  what
• 42:01
  they're
• 42:02
  doing.
• 42:02
  Not
• 42:02
  to
• 42:03
  call
• 42:03
  anyone
• 42:03
  out
• 42:03
  here,
• 42:04
  but
• 42:04
  I
• 42:04
  do
• 42:04
  think
• 42:04
  there's
• 42:05
  a
• 42:05
  great
• 42:05
  example
• 42:05
  in
• 42:05
  real
• 42:06
  life
• 42:06
  in
• 42:06
  my
• 42:06
  own
• 42:06
  experience
• 42:07
  of
• 42:07
  this
• 42:07
  exact
• 42:08
  problem.
• 42:08
  Right.
• 42:08
  So,
• 42:09
  HelloFresh,
• 42:10
  if
• 42:10
  you've
• 42:10
  ever
• 42:10
  used
• 42:10
  HelloFresh,
• 42:12
  do
• 42:12
  you
• 42:12
  still
• 42:12
  use
• 42:12
  it?
• 42:13
  No.
• 42:14
  There
• 42:14
  you
• 42:15
  go.
• 42:17
  I
• 42:17
  did
• 42:17
  not,
• 42:17
  I
• 42:18
  did
• 42:18
  not
• 42:19
  tell
• 42:19
  him
• 42:20
  to
• 42:20
  say
• 42:20
  that
• 42:20
  before
• 42:20
  this.
• 42:21
  The,
• 42:23
  the
• 42:23
  way
• 42:23
  that
• 42:23
  I
• 42:23
  read
• 42:24
  it,
• 42:24
  again,
• 42:24
  I
• 42:25
  kind
• 42:25
  of
• 42:25
  approach
• 42:25
  it
• 42:26
  from
• 42:26
  the
• 42:26
  marketing
• 42:26
  brain
• 42:27
  side
• 42:27
  of
• 42:27
  things,
• 42:27
  but
• 42:28
  I
• 42:29
  will
• 42:29
  get
• 42:29
  out.
• 42:29
  And
• 42:29
  I
• 42:29
  go,
• 42:30
  well,
• 42:30
  it
• 42:30
  sounds
• 42:31
  fabulous.
• 42:31
  It
• 42:32
  actually
• 42:32
  is
• 42:32
  really
• 42:32
  good.
• 42:33
  But
• 42:34
  the
• 42:35
  problem
• 42:35
  is
• 42:36
  the
• 42:36
  actual.
• 42:37
  For
• 42:37
  me,
• 42:38
  I
• 42:38
  don't
• 42:38
  know
• 42:38
  about
• 42:39
  your
• 42:39
  reasons.
• 42:40
  If
• 42:40
  you
• 42:40
  were
• 42:40
  to
• 42:41
  evaluate
• 42:41
  it
• 42:41
  now.
• 42:42
  I've
• 42:42
  always
• 42:42
  been
• 42:43
  intrigued
• 42:43
  and
• 42:43
  I
• 42:44
  don't
• 42:44
  know
• 42:44
  whether
• 42:44
  HelloFresh
• 42:45
  know
• 42:45
  the
• 42:45
  answer
• 42:45
  to
• 42:45
  this,
• 42:46
  by
• 42:46
  the
• 42:46
  way.
• 42:47
  And
• 42:47
  I
• 42:47
  don't
• 42:47
  know
• 42:48
  that
• 42:48
  I
• 42:48
  necessarily
• 42:49
  do
• 42:50
  as
• 42:50
  a
• 42:51
  customer
• 42:51
  because
• 42:52
  actually
• 42:53
  the
• 42:53
  experience
• 42:53
  on
• 42:54
  the
• 42:54
  app
• 42:54
  is
• 42:54
  pretty
• 42:55
  simple.
• 42:55
  Once
• 42:55
  you
• 42:56
  get
• 42:56
  used
• 42:56
  to
• 42:56
  it,
• 42:58
  your
• 42:58
  delivery
• 42:58
  is
• 42:59
  locked
• 42:59
  in,
• 42:59
  which
• 42:59
  I
• 43:00
  kind
• 43:00
  of
• 43:00
  find
• 43:00
  annoying.
• 43:01
  The
• 43:01
  delivery
• 43:01
  is
• 43:02
  delivered
• 43:02
  by
• 43:02
  every.
• 43:02
  Sorry
• 43:03
  to
• 43:03
  call
• 43:03
  another
• 43:03
  company
• 43:04
  out.
• 43:04
  There
• 43:05
  is
• 43:05
  a
• 43:05
  reason
• 43:05
  you
• 43:05
  had
• 43:06
  to
• 43:06
  change
• 43:06
  your
• 43:06
  name.
• 43:07
  It's
• 43:07
  never
• 43:08
  on
• 43:08
  time.
• 43:09
  And
• 43:09
  inevitably
• 43:11
  that
• 43:11
  sort
• 43:11
  of
• 43:11
  whole
• 43:12
  experience
• 43:12
  I
• 43:13
  find
• 43:13
  quite
• 43:13
  jarring.
• 43:15
  I
• 43:15
  didn't
• 43:16
  find
• 43:16
  it
• 43:16
  as
• 43:16
  seamless
• 43:17
  as
• 43:17
  I
• 43:17
  felt
• 43:17
  it
• 43:18
  was
• 43:18
  gonna
• 43:18
  be.
• 43:18
  I
• 43:18
  think
• 43:19
  my
• 43:19
  feelings
• 43:19
  about
• 43:19
  it
• 43:20
  initially
• 43:20
  were
• 43:20
  good.
• 43:21
  And
• 43:21
  obviously
• 43:22
  you
• 43:22
  could
• 43:22
  get
• 43:22
  a
• 43:22
  bit
• 43:22
  tired
• 43:23
  with
• 43:23
  the
• 43:23
  recipes
• 43:24
  over
• 43:24
  time
• 43:24
  and
• 43:25
  learn
• 43:25
  how
• 43:26
  to
• 43:26
  do
• 43:26
  it
• 43:26
  yourself.
• 43:26
  But
• 43:27
  why
• 43:27
  did
• 43:27
  you
• 43:28
  give
• 43:28
  give
• 43:28
  up
• 43:29
  on
• 43:29
  HelloFresh?
• 43:30
  Also,
• 43:30
  this
• 43:30
  is.
• 43:31
  I'm
• 43:31
  glad
• 43:32
  you've
• 43:32
  asked
• 43:32
  this
• 43:32
  question
• 43:32
  and
• 43:33
  we
• 43:33
  didn't
• 43:33
  prep
• 43:33
  this
• 43:33
  beforehand
• 43:34
  by
• 43:34
  the.
• 43:34
  Way,
• 43:34
  we
• 43:34
  didn't,
• 43:34
  we
• 43:34
  didn't.
• 43:35
  Honestly,
• 43:35
  we
• 43:36
  didn't
• 43:36
  in
• 43:36
  any
• 43:36
  way,
• 43:36
  shape
• 43:36
  or
• 43:36
  form,
• 43:37
  no.
• 43:37
  So
• 43:37
  the
• 43:37
  reason
• 43:37
  why
• 43:37
  I've
• 43:38
  actually
• 43:38
  tried
• 43:38
  hello
• 43:39
  Fresh
• 43:39
  a
• 43:39
  few
• 43:39
  times.
• 43:40
  I
• 43:40
  remember
• 43:40
  once
• 43:40
  trying
• 43:40
  it
• 43:41
  because
• 43:41
  they
• 43:41
  gave
• 43:41
  me
• 43:41
  a
• 43:41
  dish
• 43:42
  discount
• 43:42
  the
• 43:42
  first
• 43:42
  a
• 43:43
  few
• 43:43
  times.
• 43:43
  Me
• 43:43
  too.
• 43:44
  Yeah.
• 43:44
  And
• 43:44
  so
• 43:44
  I
• 43:45
  tried
• 43:45
  it
• 43:45
  for
• 43:45
  the
• 43:45
  discount,
• 43:45
  then
• 43:46
  canceled
• 43:46
  it.
• 43:46
  But
• 43:46
  I
• 43:46
  think
• 43:46
  I
• 43:46
  always
• 43:47
  intended
• 43:47
  to
• 43:47
  cancel
• 43:47
  it.
• 43:48
  I
• 43:48
  just
• 43:48
  wanted
• 43:48
  to
• 43:48
  try
• 43:49
  it.
• 43:50
  The
• 43:50
  last
• 43:50
  time
• 43:51
  I
• 43:51
  canceled
• 43:51
  it
• 43:51
  it
• 43:51
  was
• 43:51
  because
• 43:52
  I
• 43:52
  think
• 43:52
  it
• 43:52
  was
• 43:52
  two
• 43:53
  or
• 43:53
  three
• 43:53
  times
• 43:53
  in
• 43:54
  a
• 43:54
  row.
• 43:54
  The
• 43:54
  delivery
• 43:55
  happened
• 43:56
  really
• 43:56
  late
• 43:56
  at
• 43:56
  night.
• 43:56
  Like
• 43:57
  there
• 43:57
  was
• 43:57
  one
• 43:57
  day
• 43:58
  when,
• 43:58
  and
• 43:58
  I
• 43:58
  was
• 43:58
  living
• 43:58
  in
• 43:59
  West
• 43:59
  London
• 43:59
  at
• 43:59
  the
• 43:59
  time,
• 44:00
  so
• 44:00
  it's
• 44:00
  not
• 44:00
  like
• 44:00
  I
• 44:00
  was
• 44:01
  out
• 44:01
  in
• 44:01
  the
• 44:01
  middle
• 44:01
  of
• 44:01
  the
• 44:01
  sticks
• 44:02
  and
• 44:02
  there
• 44:02
  was
• 44:02
  like
• 44:02
  a
• 44:02
  Delivery
• 44:03
  at
• 44:03
  like
• 44:03
  11
• 44:03
  o'
• 44:04
  clock
• 44:04
  at
• 44:04
  night
• 44:04
  or
• 44:04
  something.
• 44:05
  I
• 44:05
  was
• 44:05
  like,
• 44:06
  why
• 44:06
  is
• 44:06
  this
• 44:06
  come
• 44:07
  at
• 44:07
  11
• 44:07
  o'
• 44:07
  clock
• 44:07
  at
• 44:07
  night?
• 44:07
  Night.
• 44:08
  You
• 44:08
  know,
• 44:08
  I'm,
• 44:08
  I'm
• 44:09
  in
• 44:09
  bed
• 44:09
  and
• 44:09
  I
• 44:09
  remember
• 44:10
  actually
• 44:10
  hearing
• 44:10
  it
• 44:10
  coming
• 44:11
  at
• 44:11
  night
• 44:11
  and
• 44:12
  having
• 44:12
  to
• 44:12
  get
• 44:12
  out
• 44:12
  of
• 44:12
  bed
• 44:12
  and
• 44:13
  go
• 44:13
  down
• 44:13
  and
• 44:13
  get
• 44:13
  it.
• 44:14
  And
• 44:14
  that
• 44:14
  happened
• 44:15
  like
• 44:15
  a
• 44:15
  couple
• 44:15
  of
• 44:15
  times
• 44:16
  where
• 44:16
  it
• 44:16
  was
• 44:16
  just
• 44:17
  inconvenient.
• 44:18
  And
• 44:18
  it
• 44:18
  wasn't
• 44:18
  a
• 44:18
  big
• 44:19
  problem.
• 44:19
  It
• 44:19
  was
• 44:19
  inconvenient,
• 44:20
  but
• 44:20
  it
• 44:20
  also
• 44:20
  meant
• 44:20
  we
• 44:20
  couldn't
• 44:21
  cook
• 44:21
  anything
• 44:21
  that
• 44:22
  night.
• 44:22
  So,
• 44:22
  you
• 44:23
  know,
• 44:23
  we,
• 44:23
  we,
• 44:24
  you
• 44:24
  know,
• 44:24
  we,
• 44:24
  we
• 44:24
  knew
• 44:25
  there
• 44:25
  was
• 44:25
  a
• 44:25
  hello
• 44:25
  Fresh
• 44:25
  coming.
• 44:26
  It
• 44:26
  was
• 44:26
  meant
• 44:26
  to
• 44:26
  come
• 44:26
  during
• 44:27
  the
• 44:27
  afternoon,
• 44:27
  it
• 44:27
  came
• 44:27
  at
• 44:28
  night.
• 44:28
  It
• 44:28
  meant
• 44:29
  that
• 44:29
  we
• 44:29
  had
• 44:29
  to
• 44:29
  cook
• 44:29
  something
• 44:30
  else.
• 44:31
  Again,
• 44:31
  none
• 44:31
  of
• 44:32
  these
• 44:32
  things
• 44:32
  are
• 44:32
  particularly
• 44:33
  massively
• 44:33
  inconvenient.
• 44:34
  It's
• 44:35
  just
• 44:35
  annoying.
• 44:37
  But
• 44:37
  then
• 44:37
  for
• 44:37
  the
• 44:37
  price
• 44:37
  point,
• 44:38
  I'm
• 44:38
  like,
• 44:38
  well,
• 44:38
  I
• 44:38
  can
• 44:39
  just
• 44:39
  go
• 44:39
  to
• 44:39
  my
• 44:39
  local
• 44:39
  shop,
• 44:40
  buy
• 44:40
  something.
• 44:40
  I
• 44:40
  can
• 44:41
  totally
• 44:41
  control
• 44:41
  that
• 44:42
  I
• 44:42
  can
• 44:42
  come
• 44:42
  back
• 44:42
  again.
• 44:42
  And
• 44:43
  it
• 44:43
  just,
• 44:43
  it
• 44:43
  just
• 44:43
  wasn't
• 44:44
  convenient.
• 44:45
  And
• 44:45
  I
• 44:45
  think
• 44:45
  that
• 44:45
  the
• 44:45
  process
• 44:46
  of
• 44:46
  getting
• 44:46
  a,
• 44:47
  like
• 44:47
  the
• 44:47
  refund
• 44:48
  on
• 44:48
  things
• 44:48
  was
• 44:49
  okay,
• 44:49
  but
• 44:50
  a
• 44:50
  bit
• 44:50
  faffy.
• 44:52
  And
• 44:52
  I
• 44:52
  think
• 44:53
  it's
• 44:53
  a
• 44:54
  really
• 44:54
  good
• 44:54
  example
• 44:55
  of
• 44:55
  where
• 44:55
  that
• 44:56
  cost.
• 44:56
  It's
• 44:56
  not
• 44:57
  necessarily
• 44:57
  their
• 44:57
  fault,
• 44:58
  is
• 44:58
  it?
• 44:58
  It's
• 44:58
  the
• 44:58
  delivery
• 44:59
  thing.
• 44:59
  Again,
• 44:59
  it's
• 45:00
  not,
• 45:00
  it's
• 45:00
  not
• 45:00
  their
• 45:00
  fault,
• 45:01
  but
• 45:01
  it's
• 45:01
  just,
• 45:02
  it
• 45:03
  is
• 45:03
  part
• 45:03
  of
• 45:03
  the
• 45:03
  experience.
• 45:04
  And
• 45:04
  I
• 45:04
  think
• 45:04
  going
• 45:04
  back
• 45:05
  to
• 45:05
  understanding
• 45:05
  full
• 45:06
  customer
• 45:06
  life
• 45:06
  cycle,
• 45:07
  full
• 45:07
  customer
• 45:07
  experience,
• 45:08
  the
• 45:09
  way
• 45:09
  that
• 45:09
  something
• 45:09
  gets
• 45:10
  delivered
• 45:10
  to
• 45:10
  you
• 45:11
  is
• 45:11
  really
• 45:11
  important
• 45:12
  for
• 45:12
  a
• 45:12
  delivery
• 45:12
  service.
• 45:13
  In
• 45:13
  fact,
• 45:14
  it's
• 45:14
  critical
• 45:14
  for
• 45:14
  a
• 45:14
  delivery
• 45:15
  service
• 45:15
  like
• 45:15
  them.
• 45:18
  Thinking
• 45:18
  back
• 45:18
  to
• 45:18
  Amazon,
• 45:19
  you
• 45:19
  know,
• 45:19
  Amazon
• 45:20
  saw
• 45:20
  that
• 45:21
  as
• 45:21
  a
• 45:21
  challenge
• 45:21
  years
• 45:22
  ago.
• 45:22
  Delivery
• 45:23
  challenge.
• 45:23
  That's
• 45:23
  why
• 45:23
  you
• 45:23
  see
• 45:24
  so
• 45:24
  many
• 45:24
  trucks
• 45:24
  that
• 45:24
  Amazon
• 45:25
  branded
• 45:25
  now
• 45:25
  because
• 45:26
  they
• 45:26
  realize
• 45:26
  that
• 45:26
  in
• 45:27
  order
• 45:27
  to
• 45:27
  create
• 45:27
  the
• 45:27
  experience
• 45:28
  that
• 45:28
  they
• 45:28
  wanted,
• 45:28
  which,
• 45:29
  you
• 45:29
  know,
• 45:29
  next
• 45:29
  day
• 45:29
  delivery,
• 45:31
  super
• 45:31
  fast
• 45:31
  delivery
• 45:32
  problem,
• 45:32
  free
• 45:33
  delivery,
• 45:33
  they
• 45:33
  had
• 45:33
  to
• 45:34
  control
• 45:35
  the
• 45:35
  means
• 45:35
  of
• 45:35
  distribution
• 45:37
  because
• 45:37
  it
• 45:37
  had
• 45:37
  to
• 45:37
  be
• 45:38
  in
• 45:38
  their
• 45:38
  wheelhouse
• 45:38
  to
• 45:38
  control
• 45:39
  that
• 45:39
  last
• 45:39
  mile.
• 45:41
  And
• 45:41
  that
• 45:41
  was
• 45:41
  something
• 45:42
  that
• 45:42
  Amazon
• 45:42
  really
• 45:42
  focused
• 45:43
  on.
• 45:44
  And
• 45:44
  I
• 45:44
  think
• 45:45
  for
• 45:45
  HelloFresh,
• 45:46
  it's
• 45:46
  similar.
• 45:46
  You
• 45:46
  know,
• 45:47
  that's
• 45:47
  an
• 45:47
  area
• 45:48
  where
• 45:48
  the
• 45:48
  experience
• 45:49
  of
• 45:49
  the
• 45:49
  app
• 45:49
  can
• 45:49
  be
• 45:50
  great,
• 45:50
  the
• 45:50
  recipes
• 45:50
  can
• 45:51
  be
• 45:51
  pretty
• 45:51
  good.
• 45:51
  The
• 45:52
  price
• 45:52
  point,
• 45:52
  granted,
• 45:53
  was
• 45:53
  a
• 45:53
  bit.
• 45:53
  It
• 45:53
  was
• 45:53
  higher
• 45:54
  than
• 45:54
  going
• 45:54
  to
• 45:54
  the
• 45:54
  shops,
• 45:54
  but
• 45:55
  there's
• 45:55
  a
• 45:55
  convenience
• 45:55
  thing.
• 45:57
  But
• 45:57
  ultimately
• 45:58
  it
• 45:59
  wasn't
• 45:59
  better
• 45:59
  than
• 46:00
  going
• 46:00
  to
• 46:00
  the
• 46:00
  shops
• 46:00
  because
• 46:01
  it
• 46:01
  was
• 46:01
  arriving
• 46:01
  late
• 46:02
  and
• 46:02
  it
• 46:02
  wasn't
• 46:02
  just
• 46:02
  arriving
• 46:02
  at
• 46:03
  my
• 46:03
  door
• 46:03
  when
• 46:03
  I
• 46:03
  wanted
• 46:04
  it
• 46:04
  to.
• 46:05
  And
• 46:06
  because
• 46:06
  of
• 46:06
  that
• 46:07
  piece,
• 46:08
  they
• 46:08
  lost
• 46:08
  me
• 46:09
  as
• 46:09
  a
• 46:09
  customer.
• 46:09
  And
• 46:09
  it
• 46:09
  sounds
• 46:10
  similar
• 46:10
  to
• 46:10
  you,
• 46:10
  they
• 46:10
  lost
• 46:11
  you
• 46:11
  as
• 46:11
  a
• 46:11
  customer.
• 46:11
  Now,
• 46:12
  they
• 46:12
  may
• 46:12
  know
• 46:12
  that.
• 46:12
  They
• 46:13
  may
• 46:13
  know
• 46:13
  that's
• 46:13
  a
• 46:13
  challenge
• 46:14
  and
• 46:14
  it's
• 46:14
  not
• 46:14
  like
• 46:14
  it's
• 46:14
  easy.
• 46:15
  And
• 46:15
  that's
• 46:15
  why
• 46:15
  I
• 46:15
  got
• 46:16
  a
• 46:16
  discount
• 46:16
  code
• 46:16
  three
• 46:17
  weeks
• 46:17
  later.
• 46:18
  That's
• 46:18
  why
• 46:18
  you
• 46:18
  got
• 46:18
  a
• 46:18
  discount.
• 46:19
  Well,
• 46:19
  that's
• 46:19
  another
• 46:19
  good.
• 46:19
  Yeah,
• 46:20
  Another
• 46:20
  good
• 46:20
  reason
• 46:20
  as
• 46:21
  to
• 46:21
  why
• 46:21
  these
• 46:21
  things
• 46:21
  are
• 46:22
  really
• 46:22
  important
• 46:23
  is
• 46:23
  that
• 46:24
  getting
• 46:25
  new
• 46:25
  customers
• 46:25
  is
• 46:25
  really
• 46:26
  expensive.
• 46:26
  Keeping
• 46:27
  existing
• 46:28
  customers
• 46:28
  is
• 46:28
  hard,
• 46:28
  but
• 46:29
  it's
• 46:29
  cheaper
• 46:30
  to
• 46:30
  get
• 46:30
  an
• 46:30
  existing
• 46:31
  customer
• 46:31
  back
• 46:32
  again.
• 46:33
  In
• 46:33
  order
• 46:33
  to
• 46:33
  get
• 46:33
  you
• 46:33
  to
• 46:34
  come
• 46:34
  back
• 46:34
  again,
• 46:34
  they've
• 46:34
  had
• 46:34
  to
• 46:34
  give
• 46:35
  you
• 46:35
  50%
• 46:35
  off
• 46:35
  or
• 46:36
  whatever
• 46:36
  it
• 46:36
  is.
• 46:36
  So,
• 46:36
  you
• 46:36
  know,
• 46:37
  it's
• 46:37
  already
• 46:37
  cost
• 46:37
  them
• 46:37
  50%
• 46:38
  of
• 46:38
  a
• 46:38
  sale
• 46:38
  to
• 46:39
  get
• 46:39
  you
• 46:39
  back
• 46:39
  again,
• 46:40
  assuming
• 46:40
  you
• 46:40
  come
• 46:41
  back
• 46:41
  again.
• 46:42
  And
• 46:42
  then,
• 46:42
  like,
• 46:43
  for
• 46:43
  me,
• 46:43
  I
• 46:43
  will
• 46:43
  probably
• 46:44
  never
• 46:44
  bother
• 46:44
  trying
• 46:45
  them
• 46:45
  again
• 46:45
  unless
• 46:46
  it's
• 46:46
  been
• 46:46
  a
• 46:46
  few
• 46:46
  years,
• 46:47
  you
• 46:47
  know,
• 46:47
  unless
• 46:47
  it's
• 46:47
  a
• 46:47
  really
• 46:48
  good
• 46:48
  discount.
• 46:49
  I'm
• 46:49
  in
• 46:49
  a
• 46:49
  different
• 46:49
  house
• 46:50
  now.
• 46:50
  Maybe
• 46:50
  delivery
• 46:51
  is
• 46:51
  better,
• 46:52
  but
• 46:52
  because
• 46:53
  of
• 46:53
  that
• 46:53
  bad
• 46:53
  experience,
• 46:53
  I
• 46:54
  probably
• 46:54
  won't
• 46:54
  bother.
• 46:55
  And
• 46:56
  it
• 46:56
  could
• 46:56
  be
• 46:56
  fantastic
• 46:57
  now,
• 46:57
  but
• 46:57
  I
• 46:57
  will
• 46:57
  never
• 46:58
  know
• 46:58
  because
• 46:58
  I've
• 46:59
  had
• 46:59
  that
• 46:59
  bad
• 46:59
  experience.
• 47:00
  And
• 47:00
  that
• 47:01
  is
• 47:01
  so
• 47:02
  important
• 47:02
  to
• 47:02
  understand
• 47:03
  that.
• 47:03
  And,
• 47:04
  you
• 47:04
  know,
• 47:04
  and
• 47:04
  if
• 47:04
  you
• 47:04
  are
• 47:04
  in
• 47:05
  the
• 47:05
  product
• 47:05
  team
• 47:05
  of
• 47:06
  HelloFresh,
• 47:06
  or
• 47:07
  you
• 47:07
  are
• 47:07
  in,
• 47:07
  you
• 47:08
  know,
• 47:08
  the
• 47:08
  team,
• 47:08
  they
• 47:08
  should
• 47:08
  be
• 47:09
  looking
• 47:09
  at
• 47:09
  an
• 47:09
  outcome
• 47:10
  which
• 47:10
  is
• 47:10
  something
• 47:11
  along
• 47:11
  the
• 47:11
  lines
• 47:12
  of
• 47:12
  all
• 47:13
  our
• 47:13
  customers
• 47:14
  are
• 47:14
  fully
• 47:14
  aware
• 47:15
  of
• 47:15
  when
• 47:15
  their
• 47:15
  delivery
• 47:15
  will
• 47:16
  happen
• 47:16
  and
• 47:16
  it
• 47:16
  always
• 47:16
  happens
• 47:16
  happens
• 47:17
  within
• 47:17
  X
• 47:17
  amount
• 47:17
  of
• 47:18
  time
• 47:18
  of
• 47:18
  that,
• 47:18
  of
• 47:18
  that.
• 47:19
  You
• 47:19
  know,
• 47:19
  if
• 47:19
  we
• 47:19
  say
• 47:19
  it's
• 47:19
  going
• 47:19
  to
• 47:19
  happen
• 47:20
  at
• 47:20
  10am,
• 47:21
  it
• 47:21
  doesn't
• 47:21
  it
• 47:22
  10,
• 47:22
  10
• 47:22
  past
• 47:23
  10
• 47:23
  is
• 47:23
  the
• 47:23
  latest
• 47:23
  it's
• 47:23
  going
• 47:24
  to
• 47:24
  be,
• 47:24
  you
• 47:24
  know,
• 47:24
  so
• 47:24
  you
• 47:24
  want
• 47:24
  an
• 47:25
  outcome
• 47:25
  which
• 47:25
  is
• 47:25
  focused
• 47:26
  on
• 47:26
  the
• 47:26
  behavior
• 47:26
  of
• 47:26
  delivery,
• 47:27
  you
• 47:27
  know,
• 47:28
  so
• 47:28
  that
• 47:28
  you
• 47:28
  can
• 47:28
  look
• 47:29
  at
• 47:29
  that
• 47:29
  and
• 47:29
  go,
• 47:29
  where
• 47:30
  is
• 47:30
  the
• 47:30
  challenges
• 47:31
  around
• 47:31
  that?
• 47:32
  And
• 47:33
  again,
• 47:33
  to
• 47:34
  the
• 47:34
  point,
• 47:34
  I,
• 47:34
  you
• 47:34
  know,
• 47:34
  the
• 47:35
  example
• 47:35
  I
• 47:35
  gave
• 47:35
  delivery
• 47:36
  was
• 47:36
  meant
• 47:36
  to
• 47:36
  be
• 47:36
  in
• 47:36
  the
• 47:37
  afternoon,
• 47:37
  it
• 47:37
  came
• 47:37
  in
• 47:37
  the
• 47:37
  evening.
• 47:38
  This
• 47:39
  is
• 47:39
  where
• 47:39
  it
• 47:39
  hits.
• 47:39
  It
• 47:39
  hits
• 47:40
  distribution,
• 47:40
  it's
• 47:41
  product.
• 47:41
  They've
• 47:42
  got
• 47:42
  an
• 47:42
  app.
• 47:42
  If
• 47:42
  they
• 47:43
  sent
• 47:43
  me
• 47:43
  an
• 47:43
  alert
• 47:43
  to
• 47:44
  tell
• 47:44
  me
• 47:44
  my
• 47:44
  delivery
• 47:44
  was
• 47:44
  going
• 47:45
  to
• 47:45
  be
• 47:45
  late,
• 47:46
  I
• 47:46
  would
• 47:46
  have
• 47:46
  been
• 47:46
  annoyed.
• 47:47
  But
• 47:47
  not
• 47:47
  as
• 47:48
  annoyed.
• 47:49
  Little
• 47:49
  things
• 47:50
  like
• 47:50
  that
• 47:50
  that,
• 47:51
  you
• 47:51
  know,
• 47:51
  they're
• 47:51
  relying
• 47:51
  on
• 47:52
  the
• 47:52
  delivery
• 47:53
  service.
• 47:53
  Can't
• 47:53
  remember
• 47:54
  who
• 47:54
  it
• 47:54
  was,
• 47:55
  to
• 47:55
  be
• 47:55
  honest.
• 47:55
  They're
• 47:55
  all
• 47:55
  terrible.
• 47:56
  Probably
• 47:56
  every.
• 47:57
  Yeah,
• 47:57
  yeah,
• 47:57
  it
• 47:57
  could
• 47:58
  have
• 47:58
  been.
• 47:58
  Yeah,
• 47:58
  it
• 47:58
  could
• 47:58
  have
• 47:58
  been
• 47:58
  relying
• 47:59
  on
• 47:59
  one
• 47:59
  of
• 47:59
  those
• 48:00
  that
• 48:00
  were,
• 48:00
  you
• 48:00
  know,
• 48:00
  and
• 48:01
  it's
• 48:01
  gone
• 48:01
  wrong
• 48:01
  and
• 48:01
  they've
• 48:02
  not
• 48:02
  managed
• 48:02
  to
• 48:02
  communicate.
• 48:05
  Just
• 48:05
  to
• 48:05
  give
• 48:06
  an
• 48:06
  extra
• 48:06
  story
• 48:06
  from
• 48:07
  like
• 48:07
  a
• 48:07
  business
• 48:08
  I've
• 48:08
  worked
• 48:08
  with,
• 48:08
  I
• 48:08
  worked
• 48:09
  with
• 48:09
  a
• 48:09
  company
• 48:09
  called,
• 48:09
  I
• 48:09
  think
• 48:10
  I
• 48:10
  mentioned
• 48:10
  Varja.
• 48:11
  They
• 48:11
  were
• 48:11
  a
• 48:12
  fitness
• 48:12
  mirror.
• 48:12
  Really
• 48:13
  interesting
• 48:13
  product
• 48:13
  actually.
• 48:14
  It
• 48:14
  was
• 48:14
  effectively
• 48:15
  a
• 48:15
  fitness
• 48:15
  coach
• 48:16
  on
• 48:16
  a
• 48:16
  mirror.
• 48:16
  So
• 48:16
  you
• 48:16
  would
• 48:16
  stand
• 48:17
  there
• 48:17
  in
• 48:17
  front
• 48:17
  of
• 48:17
  the
• 48:17
  mirror
• 48:17
  and
• 48:18
  it
• 48:18
  would
• 48:18
  bring
• 48:18
  up
• 48:19
  a
• 48:19
  fitness
• 48:19
  coach
• 48:19
  on
• 48:19
  the
• 48:20
  mirror
• 48:20
  next
• 48:20
  to
• 48:20
  you
• 48:20
  kind
• 48:21
  of.
• 48:21
  So
• 48:21
  it
• 48:21
  kind
• 48:21
  of
• 48:21
  looked
• 48:21
  like
• 48:22
  they
• 48:22
  were
• 48:22
  in
• 48:22
  the
• 48:22
  room
• 48:22
  next
• 48:22
  to
• 48:23
  you
• 48:23
  and
• 48:23
  they
• 48:23
  would
• 48:23
  do
• 48:23
  the
• 48:23
  exercises
• 48:24
  and
• 48:24
  you
• 48:24
  would
• 48:24
  follow.
• 48:25
  It
• 48:25
  had
• 48:25
  an
• 48:25
  AI
• 48:26
  component
• 48:26
  which
• 48:26
  could
• 48:27
  give
• 48:27
  you
• 48:27
  some
• 48:27
  feedback
• 48:27
  on
• 48:28
  what
• 48:28
  you
• 48:28
  were
• 48:28
  doing.
• 48:28
  So
• 48:28
  it
• 48:29
  was
• 48:29
  kind
• 48:29
  of
• 48:29
  interesting
• 48:29
  now.
• 48:30
  Sounds
• 48:30
  kind
• 48:30
  of
• 48:30
  cool.
• 48:31
  It
• 48:31
  was
• 48:31
  kind
• 48:31
  of
• 48:32
  cool,
• 48:32
  yeah.
• 48:32
  So
• 48:32
  again,
• 48:32
  going
• 48:33
  into
• 48:33
  the
• 48:33
  tech,
• 48:33
  really
• 48:34
  cool
• 48:34
  tech.
• 48:35
  And
• 48:35
  as
• 48:36
  a
• 48:36
  business
• 48:36
  they
• 48:36
  really
• 48:36
  cared
• 48:37
  about
• 48:38
  end
• 48:38
  to
• 48:39
  end
• 48:39
  customer
• 48:39
  experience
• 48:39
  and
• 48:40
  understanding
• 48:40
  what
• 48:40
  that
• 48:41
  customer
• 48:41
  experience
• 48:41
  cycle
• 48:42
  looks
• 48:42
  like.
• 48:44
  And
• 48:44
  in
• 48:44
  the
• 48:44
  time
• 48:44
  I
• 48:45
  was
• 48:45
  there,
• 48:45
  a
• 48:45
  lot
• 48:45
  of
• 48:45
  the
• 48:45
  time
• 48:46
  was
• 48:46
  helping
• 48:46
  map
• 48:46
  out
• 48:47
  the
• 48:48
  total
• 48:48
  journey
• 48:49
  of
• 48:49
  that
• 48:49
  cycle
• 48:49
  from
• 48:49
  somebody
• 48:50
  first
• 48:50
  in
• 48:50
  an
• 48:50
  ad
• 48:51
  through
• 48:51
  to
• 48:51
  somebody
• 48:51
  leaving
• 48:52
  and
• 48:52
  understanding
• 48:52
  every
• 48:53
  step
• 48:53
  of
• 48:53
  the
• 48:53
  way
• 48:53
  and
• 48:53
  the
• 48:54
  reasons
• 48:54
  why
• 48:54
  they
• 48:54
  might
• 48:54
  leave.
• 48:56
  And
• 48:56
  one
• 48:56
  of
• 48:56
  the
• 48:56
  areas
• 48:56
  we
• 48:57
  put
• 48:57
  a
• 48:57
  lot
• 48:57
  of
• 48:57
  focus
• 48:57
  into
• 48:58
  was
• 48:58
  that
• 48:58
  delivery
• 48:59
  experience.
• 49:00
  That
• 49:01
  because
• 49:01
  it
• 49:01
  was
• 49:01
  quite
• 49:01
  a
• 49:01
  big
• 49:02
  piece
• 49:02
  of
• 49:02
  kit
• 49:03
  and
• 49:03
  it
• 49:03
  was
• 49:03
  quite
• 49:04
  an
• 49:04
  expensive
• 49:04
  piece
• 49:04
  of
• 49:04
  kit,
• 49:06
  the
• 49:06
  delivery
• 49:07
  experience
• 49:07
  had
• 49:07
  to
• 49:07
  be
• 49:08
  really
• 49:08
  good.
• 49:08
  And
• 49:08
  similar
• 49:09
  to
• 49:09
  HelloFresh.
• 49:10
  There
• 49:10
  was
• 49:10
  a
• 49:10
  lot
• 49:10
  of
• 49:10
  challenges
• 49:11
  around
• 49:11
  delivery
• 49:11
  times
• 49:13
  about
• 49:13
  the
• 49:14
  experience,
• 49:14
  the
• 49:14
  people
• 49:15
  actually
• 49:15
  doing
• 49:15
  the
• 49:15
  delivery.
• 49:16
  You
• 49:16
  know
• 49:17
  what
• 49:17
  the
• 49:17
  two
• 49:17
  guys
• 49:18
  that
• 49:18
  lug
• 49:18
  it
• 49:18
  into
• 49:18
  your
• 49:18
  living
• 49:19
  room,
• 49:19
  are
• 49:19
  they
• 49:20
  nice
• 49:20
  to
• 49:20
  you?
• 49:21
  Do
• 49:21
  they
• 49:21
  unpack
• 49:21
  it
• 49:21
  for
• 49:21
  you?
• 49:22
  Do
• 49:22
  they
• 49:22
  put
• 49:22
  it
• 49:22
  in
• 49:22
  the
• 49:22
  right
• 49:23
  place?
• 49:24
  All
• 49:24
  these
• 49:24
  things
• 49:25
  that
• 49:25
  made
• 49:26
  a
• 49:26
  massive
• 49:26
  impact
• 49:27
  on
• 49:28
  people's
• 49:29
  experience
• 49:29
  of
• 49:30
  the
• 49:30
  product.
• 49:31
  Even
• 49:31
  though
• 49:31
  the
• 49:31
  product
• 49:31
  was
• 49:32
  great,
• 49:32
  it
• 49:32
  was
• 49:32
  super
• 49:32
  shiny,
• 49:32
  looked
• 49:33
  really
• 49:33
  good,
• 49:33
  the
• 49:33
  app
• 49:34
  was
• 49:34
  pretty
• 49:34
  good.
• 49:35
  The
• 49:35
  sales
• 49:35
  funnel
• 49:36
  before
• 49:36
  it
• 49:36
  was
• 49:36
  pretty
• 49:37
  good.
• 49:37
  We
• 49:37
  saw
• 49:38
  a
• 49:38
  direct
• 49:38
  connection
• 49:39
  between
• 49:39
  people
• 49:39
  having
• 49:40
  a
• 49:40
  bad
• 49:40
  experience
• 49:41
  of
• 49:41
  it
• 49:41
  being
• 49:41
  delivered
• 49:42
  and
• 49:42
  their
• 49:42
  immediate
• 49:43
  usage.
• 49:44
  That
• 49:44
  is,
• 49:45
  if
• 49:45
  it
• 49:45
  wasn't
• 49:45
  set
• 49:45
  up
• 49:46
  properly
• 49:46
  when
• 49:46
  it
• 49:46
  was
• 49:46
  delivered,
• 49:47
  if
• 49:47
  the
• 49:47
  delivery
• 49:48
  guy
• 49:48
  was
• 49:48
  a
• 49:48
  bit
• 49:48
  rude
• 49:49
  to
• 49:49
  them,
• 49:49
  whatever
• 49:49
  it
• 49:50
  was,
• 49:51
  their
• 49:51
  initial
• 49:52
  experience
• 49:52
  wasn't
• 49:52
  as
• 49:52
  good
• 49:53
  and
• 49:53
  that
• 49:54
  mattered
• 49:54
  a
• 49:54
  lot
• 49:54
  and
• 49:54
  that
• 49:55
  you
• 49:55
  could
• 49:55
  then
• 49:55
  track
• 49:55
  a
• 49:56
  direct
• 49:56
  connection
• 49:56
  between
• 49:57
  that
• 49:57
  and
• 49:58
  their
• 49:58
  usage
• 49:58
  in
• 49:58
  the
• 49:58
  first
• 49:59
  couple
• 49:59
  of
• 49:59
  weeks,
• 49:59
  which
• 50:00
  obviously
• 50:00
  impacted
• 50:00
  churn
• 50:01
  rates
• 50:01
  and
• 50:01
  things
• 50:01
  like
• 50:01
  that.
• 50:02
  It's
• 50:02
  interesting,
• 50:02
  isn't
• 50:03
  it,
• 50:03
  how
• 50:03
  something
• 50:04
  out
• 50:04
  of
• 50:04
  your
• 50:04
  control,
• 50:05
  to
• 50:05
  be
• 50:05
  brutally
• 50:05
  honest,
• 50:06
  in
• 50:06
  both
• 50:06
  cases,
• 50:07
  because
• 50:07
  it's
• 50:08
  a
• 50:08
  part
• 50:08
  of
• 50:08
  the
• 50:09
  journey
• 50:10
  and
• 50:10
  I
• 50:10
  think
• 50:11
  we
• 50:11
  should
• 50:11
  do
• 50:11
  another
• 50:11
  episode
• 50:12
  at
• 50:12
  some
• 50:12
  point
• 50:12
  in
• 50:12
  the
• 50:12
  future.
• 50:13
  Only
• 50:14
  if
• 50:14
  Scott
• 50:14
  agrees
• 50:14
  to
• 50:15
  this.
• 50:15
  Do
• 50:15
  comment
• 50:15
  down
• 50:15
  below
• 50:16
  if
• 50:16
  you
• 50:16
  think
• 50:16
  we
• 50:16
  should
• 50:17
  do
• 50:17
  something
• 50:17
  about
• 50:18
  talking
• 50:18
  about
• 50:19
  retention
• 50:19
  and
• 50:19
  the
• 50:19
  customer
• 50:20
  lifecycle
• 50:20
  and
• 50:20
  stuff.
• 50:21
  Because
• 50:21
  we
• 50:22
  could
• 50:22
  both
• 50:23
  come
• 50:23
  at
• 50:23
  it
• 50:23
  from
• 50:23
  loads
• 50:24
  of
• 50:24
  different
• 50:24
  perspectives
• 50:25
  with
• 50:25
  real
• 50:25
  world
• 50:26
  examples
• 50:26
  where
• 50:27
  we
• 50:27
  could
• 50:27
  talk
• 50:27
  about
• 50:27
  it
• 50:28
  so
• 50:28
  that
• 50:28
  you
• 50:29
  listening
• 50:29
  as
• 50:30
  a
• 50:30
  founder,
• 50:31
  can
• 50:31
  maybe
• 50:31
  pick
• 50:31
  up
• 50:32
  one
• 50:32
  or
• 50:32
  two
• 50:32
  things
• 50:32
  that
• 50:32
  you
• 50:33
  might
• 50:33
  be
• 50:33
  able
• 50:33
  to
• 50:34
  do
• 50:34
  to
• 50:35
  kind
• 50:35
  of
• 50:36
  A,
• 50:37
  get
• 50:37
  a
• 50:37
  grip
• 50:38
  on
• 50:38
  it
• 50:39
  and
• 50:39
  B,
• 50:40
  figure
• 50:40
  out
• 50:40
  where
• 50:42
  you
• 50:42
  can
• 50:42
  make
• 50:42
  the
• 50:43
  greatest
• 50:43
  impact,
• 50:44
  which
• 50:45
  as
• 50:46
  Scott
• 50:46
  touched
• 50:47
  on,
• 50:47
  and
• 50:47
  I
• 50:47
  hammer
• 50:48
  all
• 50:48
  the
• 50:48
  time,
• 50:49
  retention
• 50:49
  is
• 50:50
  the
• 50:50
  key
• 50:51
  because
• 50:51
  retention
• 50:52
  is
• 50:53
  not
• 50:53
  only
• 50:54
  cheap,
• 50:54
  these
• 50:54
  are
• 50:54
  the
• 50:55
  people
• 50:55
  who
• 50:55
  are
• 50:55
  going
• 50:55
  to
• 50:55
  be
• 50:55
  your
• 50:56
  best
• 50:56
  advocates.
• 50:57
  So
• 50:57
  focus
• 50:58
  on
• 50:58
  retention,
• 50:58
  folks,
• 50:59
  but
• 50:59
  do
• 50:59
  comment
• 50:59
  below
• 51:00
  if
• 51:00
  you
• 51:00
  want
• 51:00
  us
• 51:00
  to
• 51:00
  do
• 51:00
  it
• 51:00
  and
• 51:01
  if
• 51:01
  Scott
• 51:01
  says
• 51:01
  yes,
• 51:02
  obviously
• 51:02
  put
• 51:03
  them
• 51:03
  on
• 51:03
  the
• 51:03
  spot
• 51:03
  again.
• 51:05
  Yeah,
• 51:05
  I'd
• 51:05
  love
• 51:05
  to.
• 51:05
  That
• 51:06
  sounds
• 51:06
  really
• 51:06
  good.
• 51:07
  Absolutely.
• 51:07
  Focus
• 51:07
  on
• 51:08
  retention.
• 51:08
  They
• 51:08
  say
• 51:08
  once
• 51:08
  people
• 51:09
  are
• 51:09
  through
• 51:09
  the
• 51:09
  door,
• 51:09
  focus
• 51:09
  on
• 51:10
  retention.
• 51:10
  There
• 51:11
  are
• 51:11
  so
• 51:11
  many
• 51:11
  companies
• 51:12
  I've
• 51:12
  worked
• 51:12
  with
• 51:12
  who
• 51:13
  once
• 51:13
  people
• 51:13
  are
• 51:13
  through
• 51:13
  the
• 51:14
  door
• 51:14
  and
• 51:14
  using
• 51:14
  the
• 51:14
  product,
• 51:15
  providing
• 51:16
  it
• 51:16
  looks
• 51:16
  like
• 51:16
  they're
• 51:17
  using
• 51:17
  it,
• 51:17
  that's
• 51:17
  it,
• 51:18
  that's
• 51:18
  their
• 51:18
  knowledge
• 51:19
  of
• 51:19
  that
• 51:19
  user
• 51:20
  and
• 51:20
  then
• 51:20
  they
• 51:21
  don't
• 51:21
  really
• 51:21
  know
• 51:21
  why
• 51:22
  they
• 51:22
  stopped
• 51:22
  using
• 51:23
  it.
• 51:23
  And
• 51:24
  I
• 51:24
  often
• 51:24
  ask
• 51:24
  you,
• 51:25
  I
• 51:25
  often
• 51:25
  ask
• 51:25
  founders,
• 51:26
  can
• 51:26
  you
• 51:27
  predict
• 51:27
  when
• 51:27
  a
• 51:27
  customer
• 51:28
  is
• 51:28
  going
• 51:28
  to
• 51:28
  leave
• 51:28
  your
• 51:28
  platform?
• 51:29
  Because
• 51:30
  to
• 51:30
  do
• 51:30
  that
• 51:30
  you
• 51:30
  have
• 51:30
  to
• 51:30
  have
• 51:31
  data
• 51:31
  about
• 51:31
  what
• 51:31
  they're
• 51:31
  doing.
• 51:32
  You
• 51:32
  have
• 51:32
  to
• 51:32
  understand
• 51:32
  their
• 51:32
  motivations,
• 51:33
  you
• 51:33
  have
• 51:33
  to
• 51:33
  understand
• 51:34
  your
• 51:34
  experience.
• 51:34
  If
• 51:35
  the
• 51:35
  answer
• 51:35
  is
• 51:35
  no,
• 51:35
  we
• 51:36
  can't
• 51:36
  predict.
• 51:36
  It's
• 51:37
  like
• 51:37
  work
• 51:37
  out
• 51:37
  how
• 51:37
  to
• 51:38
  work
• 51:38
  out
• 51:39
  how
• 51:39
  to
• 51:39
  predict
• 51:39
  because
• 51:40
  that
• 51:40
  will,
• 51:40
  to
• 51:40
  your
• 51:41
  point,
• 51:41
  if
• 51:41
  you
• 51:41
  can
• 51:41
  keep
• 51:42
  those
• 51:42
  customers
• 51:42
  on
• 51:42
  board,
• 51:43
  that
• 51:43
  means
• 51:43
  that
• 51:44
  you're
• 51:44
  making
• 51:44
  them
• 51:44
  happy
• 51:45
  while
• 51:45
  they're
• 51:45
  using
• 51:45
  the
• 51:45
  product.
• 51:46
  And
• 51:46
  that
• 51:46
  doesn't
• 51:47
  mean
• 51:47
  that
• 51:47
  when
• 51:47
  they
• 51:47
  phone
• 51:48
  up
• 51:48
  to
• 51:48
  cancel,
• 51:48
  you
• 51:48
  give
• 51:49
  them
• 51:49
  an
• 51:49
  offer.
• 51:49
  That's
• 51:49
  not
• 51:50
  treating
• 51:50
  them
• 51:50
  nice,
• 51:50
  that's
• 51:51
  not
• 51:51
  understanding
• 51:51
  why
• 51:51
  they're
• 51:52
  leaving.
• 51:52
  They've
• 51:52
  already
• 51:53
  made
• 51:53
  the
• 51:53
  decision
• 51:53
  to
• 51:53
  pick
• 51:54
  up
• 51:54
  the
• 51:54
  phone
• 51:54
  and
• 51:55
  send
• 51:55
  an
• 51:55
  email
• 51:55
  to
• 51:55
  Council.
• 51:56
  It's
• 51:56
  understanding
• 51:57
  before
• 51:57
  then
• 51:58
  what
• 51:58
  the
• 51:58
  indicators
• 51:58
  are.
• 51:59
  Interject
• 52:00
  them,
• 52:01
  because
• 52:01
  then
• 52:01
  you
• 52:02
  can
• 52:02
  have
• 52:02
  a
• 52:02
  really
• 52:02
  big
• 52:02
  impact
• 52:03
  and
• 52:03
  help
• 52:04
  keep
• 52:04
  them
• 52:04
  on
• 52:04
  board.
• 52:05
  It's
• 52:05
  like
• 52:06
  my
• 52:06
  father,
• 52:07
  dad,
• 52:07
  I'm
• 52:07
  sure
• 52:07
  you'll
• 52:08
  watch
• 52:08
  my
• 52:09
  Podcast
• 52:09
  because
• 52:10
  that's
• 52:10
  what
• 52:10
  parents
• 52:11
  do.
• 52:11
  My
• 52:11
  father
• 52:13
  was
• 52:13
  a
• 52:13
  dean
• 52:14
  in
• 52:14
  universities
• 52:15
  and
• 52:15
  business
• 52:15
  schools
• 52:15
  and
• 52:16
  he
• 52:16
  used
• 52:16
  to
• 52:16
  talk
• 52:17
  about
• 52:17
  this
• 52:17
  idea
• 52:18
  about
• 52:18
  solving
• 52:19
  the
• 52:19
  right
• 52:19
  problem.
• 52:20
  And
• 52:21
  because
• 52:21
  he's
• 52:21
  statistics
• 52:22
  background
• 52:22
  and
• 52:23
  stuff,
• 52:23
  he
• 52:24
  always
• 52:24
  talks
• 52:25
  about
• 52:25
  that.
• 52:25
  And
• 52:25
  in
• 52:26
  your
• 52:26
  case,
• 52:26
  you're
• 52:26
  very
• 52:26
  much
• 52:27
  talking
• 52:27
  about
• 52:27
  working
• 52:28
  out
• 52:28
  why
• 52:29
  somebody
• 52:30
  is
• 52:30
  doing
• 52:30
  something,
• 52:31
  not
• 52:31
  just
• 52:31
  realizing
• 52:32
  that
• 52:32
  even
• 52:33
  if
• 52:33
  you've
• 52:33
  got
• 52:33
  the
• 52:33
  data
• 52:34
  that
• 52:34
  says
• 52:34
  they'll
• 52:34
  stay
• 52:34
  an
• 52:35
  average
• 52:35
  of
• 52:35
  six
• 52:35
  months.
• 52:36
  Well,
• 52:36
  why
• 52:37
  is
• 52:37
  it
• 52:37
  only
• 52:38
  six
• 52:38
  months?
• 52:39
  Because
• 52:39
  once
• 52:40
  you
• 52:40
  work
• 52:40
  that
• 52:40
  out,
• 52:40
  you
• 52:41
  could
• 52:41
  maybe
• 52:41
  extend
• 52:42
  that
• 52:42
  to
• 52:42
  7,
• 52:42
  8,
• 52:43
  9.
• 52:43
  I
• 52:43
  mean,
• 52:43
  imagine
• 52:44
  the
• 52:44
  impact
• 52:44
  of
• 52:44
  that.
• 52:46
  Yeah.
• 52:46
  Or
• 52:46
  far
• 52:47
  beyond
• 52:47
  that.
• 52:48
  Yeah,
• 52:48
  the
• 52:49
  impact
• 52:49
  is
• 52:49
  absolutely
• 52:49
  huge.
• 52:50
  So
• 52:51
  where
• 52:51
  we
• 52:51
  could
• 52:52
  do
• 52:52
  an
• 52:52
  entire
• 52:52
  hour
• 52:52
  on
• 52:53
  that.
• 52:53
  So
• 52:53
  I
• 52:53
  won't
• 52:53
  go
• 52:53
  too
• 52:53
  deep
• 52:54
  on
• 52:54
  that.
• 52:54
  We
• 52:54
  could
• 52:54
  totally,
• 52:55
  we
• 52:55
  could
• 52:55
  totally
• 52:55
  do
• 52:56
  that.
• 52:56
  And.
• 52:57
  Okay,
• 52:58
  so
• 52:58
  I'm
• 52:58
  gonna
• 52:59
  do
• 52:59
  a
• 52:59
  couple
• 52:59
  of
• 52:59
  quick
• 52:59
  fire
• 53:00
  questions
• 53:00
  for
• 53:00
  you,
• 53:00
  Scott.
• 53:01
  Are
• 53:01
  you
• 53:02
  ready?
• 53:03
  I
• 53:03
  think
• 53:03
  so.
• 53:04
  Okay,
• 53:05
  so
• 53:05
  first,
• 53:06
  from
• 53:06
  your
• 53:07
  perspective
• 53:08
  as
• 53:08
  a
• 53:09
  UX
• 53:09
  customer
• 53:10
  experience
• 53:10
  job
• 53:11
  shap,
• 53:12
  what
• 53:12
  kills
• 53:13
  a
• 53:14
  SaaS
• 53:14
  product?
• 53:15
  So
• 53:15
  many
• 53:15
  things
• 53:16
  can
• 53:16
  kill
• 53:16
  a
• 53:16
  SaaS
• 53:16
  product.
• 53:17
  But
• 53:17
  I
• 53:17
  think
• 53:17
  the
• 53:18
  things
• 53:18
  that
• 53:18
  I
• 53:18
  notice
• 53:19
  most
• 53:19
  often,
• 53:19
  and
• 53:19
  we've
• 53:19
  covered
• 53:20
  a
• 53:20
  few
• 53:20
  times
• 53:20
  in
• 53:20
  this
• 53:21
  conversation,
• 53:22
  you're
• 53:22
  solving
• 53:22
  the
• 53:22
  wrong
• 53:23
  problem.
• 53:24
  You're
• 53:24
  solving
• 53:24
  a
• 53:25
  problem
• 53:25
  potentially
• 53:25
  that
• 53:27
  not
• 53:27
  many
• 53:27
  people
• 53:27
  have,
• 53:28
  flipping
• 53:29
  that
• 53:30
  you're
• 53:31
  solving
• 53:31
  the
• 53:32
  right
• 53:32
  problem,
• 53:32
  but
• 53:33
  the
• 53:33
  product
• 53:33
  or
• 53:33
  service
• 53:33
  you're
• 53:34
  building
• 53:34
  isn't
• 53:34
  actually
• 53:35
  solving
• 53:35
  it.
• 53:36
  And
• 53:36
  that's
• 53:36
  a
• 53:37
  hard
• 53:37
  one
• 53:37
  for
• 53:37
  founders
• 53:37
  to
• 53:38
  realise
• 53:38
  that
• 53:38
  the
• 53:39
  great
• 53:39
  idea
• 53:39
  they
• 53:40
  have,
• 53:40
  and
• 53:40
  this
• 53:40
  comes
• 53:40
  to
• 53:40
  assumptions,
• 53:41
  isn't
• 53:41
  actually
• 53:41
  solving
• 53:42
  the
• 53:42
  problem
• 53:43
  that
• 53:43
  they
• 53:43
  had
• 53:46
  first
• 53:46
  to
• 53:46
  that
• 53:46
  is
• 53:47
  you've
• 53:47
  got
• 53:47
  a.
• 53:47
  You've
• 53:48
  found
• 53:48
  a
• 53:48
  great
• 53:48
  problem,
• 53:49
  just
• 53:49
  solved
• 53:49
  it
• 53:49
  in
• 53:49
  a
• 53:49
  fantastic
• 53:50
  way,
• 53:51
  but
• 53:51
  you've
• 53:52
  not
• 53:52
  worked
• 53:52
  out
• 53:52
  how
• 53:52
  to
• 53:52
  actually
• 53:53
  monetize
• 53:53
  it,
• 53:54
  I.
• 53:54
  E.
• 53:54
  The
• 53:55
  people
• 53:55
  you,
• 53:55
  the
• 53:55
  people
• 53:56
  that
• 53:56
  you're
• 53:56
  selling
• 53:56
  to,
• 53:57
  it
• 53:57
  isn't
• 53:57
  a
• 53:57
  big
• 53:58
  enough
• 53:58
  value
• 53:58
  to
• 53:58
  them
• 53:58
  to
• 53:59
  pay
• 53:59
  for
• 53:59
  it.
• 53:59
  That
• 53:59
  is
• 54:00
  a
• 54:00
  huge
• 54:00
  one
• 54:01
  that
• 54:01
  hit
• 54:02
  so
• 54:02
  many
• 54:02
  founders
• 54:02
  I've
• 54:02
  worked
• 54:03
  with.
• 54:04
  Great
• 54:04
  problem,
• 54:04
  you
• 54:04
  know,
• 54:05
  solid
• 54:05
  problem,
• 54:06
  great
• 54:06
  product,
• 54:07
  can't
• 54:07
  work
• 54:07
  out
• 54:07
  how
• 54:08
  to
• 54:08
  make
• 54:08
  money
• 54:08
  from
• 54:08
  it.
• 54:10
  And
• 54:10
  I
• 54:10
  think
• 54:10
  going
• 54:10
  back
• 54:10
  to
• 54:10
  the
• 54:11
  final
• 54:11
  one
• 54:11
  is
• 54:11
  you
• 54:11
  don't
• 54:12
  understand
• 54:12
  your
• 54:12
  full
• 54:12
  customer
• 54:13
  life
• 54:13
  cycle,
• 54:13
  which
• 54:13
  I've
• 54:14
  kind
• 54:14
  of
• 54:14
  re
• 54:14
  basted
• 54:15
  on
• 54:15
  the
• 54:15
  head
• 54:15
  a
• 54:15
  few
• 54:15
  times.
• 54:16
  You
• 54:16
  don't
• 54:16
  understand
• 54:16
  your
• 54:17
  customer
• 54:17
  lifecycle,
• 54:17
  which
• 54:18
  means
• 54:18
  you
• 54:18
  don't
• 54:18
  understand
• 54:19
  whether
• 54:19
  your
• 54:19
  product
• 54:20
  is
• 54:20
  solving
• 54:20
  the
• 54:20
  problem
• 54:20
  to
• 54:21
  the
• 54:21
  degree
• 54:21
  you
• 54:21
  thought
• 54:22
  it
• 54:22
  would.
• 54:22
  So
• 54:23
  you
• 54:23
  don't
• 54:23
  understand
• 54:24
  whether
• 54:24
  you're
• 54:24
  going
• 54:24
  to
• 54:25
  have
• 54:25
  retention
• 54:25
  that
• 54:26
  can
• 54:26
  kill
• 54:26
  a
• 54:26
  product.
• 54:27
  Fantastic.
• 54:28
  And
• 54:28
  I
• 54:29
  actually
• 54:30
  something
• 54:30
  escaped
• 54:31
  my
• 54:31
  brain
• 54:31
  there
• 54:32
  that
• 54:32
  I
• 54:32
  was
• 54:32
  going
• 54:32
  to
• 54:32
  say,
• 54:32
  but
• 54:33
  I'm
• 54:33
  sure
• 54:33
  it'll
• 54:33
  come
• 54:33
  to
• 54:34
  Me.
• 54:34
  Okay,
• 54:34
  so
• 54:34
  flipping
• 54:35
  on
• 54:35
  its
• 54:36
  head,
• 54:37
  what
• 54:37
  are
• 54:37
  the
• 54:37
  three
• 54:38
  things
• 54:39
  that
• 54:41
  founder
• 54:41
  the
• 54:41
  levers
• 54:42
  they
• 54:42
  can
• 54:42
  pull
• 54:43
  to
• 54:43
  make
• 54:43
  sure
• 54:44
  their
• 54:45
  SaaS
• 54:45
  is
• 54:45
  successful?
• 54:47
  I'm
• 54:47
  sure
• 54:47
  you
• 54:48
  know
• 54:48
  they're
• 54:48
  very
• 54:48
  much
• 54:48
  the
• 54:49
  antithesis
• 54:49
  to
• 54:49
  what
• 54:50
  you
• 54:50
  said
• 54:50
  about
• 54:51
  the
• 54:52
  failure,
• 54:52
  but
• 54:52
  maybe
• 54:53
  if
• 54:53
  you
• 54:53
  could
• 54:53
  throw
• 54:54
  three
• 54:54
  practical
• 54:54
  things
• 54:55
  they
• 54:55
  could
• 54:55
  look
• 54:55
  at
• 54:56
  to
• 54:56
  drive
• 54:57
  that
• 54:57
  success.
• 54:57
  Yeah,
• 54:58
  three
• 54:58
  practical
• 54:58
  things.
• 54:59
  Number
• 54:59
  one,
• 54:59
  map
• 55:00
  out
• 55:00
  your
• 55:00
  full
• 55:01
  customer's
• 55:01
  life
• 55:01
  cycle.
• 55:02
  Draw
• 55:02
  it
• 55:02
  on
• 55:02
  a
• 55:02
  whiteboard,
• 55:03
  put
• 55:03
  post
• 55:03
  it
• 55:03
  notes,
• 55:04
  write
• 55:04
  it
• 55:04
  on
• 55:05
  a
• 55:05
  piece
• 55:05
  of
• 55:05
  paper,
• 55:05
  whatever
• 55:05
  you
• 55:06
  want,
• 55:06
  but
• 55:06
  map
• 55:06
  that
• 55:06
  out.
• 55:07
  Understand
• 55:07
  all
• 55:08
  the
• 55:08
  different
• 55:08
  points,
• 55:08
  understand
• 55:09
  all
• 55:09
  the
• 55:09
  points
• 55:09
  where
• 55:09
  they'll
• 55:09
  drop
• 55:10
  off.
• 55:11
  Ensure
• 55:12
  that
• 55:12
  you
• 55:12
  have
• 55:12
  a
• 55:12
  strong
• 55:13
  feedback
• 55:13
  loop.
• 55:13
  So
• 55:14
  for
• 55:14
  each
• 55:14
  of
• 55:14
  those
• 55:14
  points
• 55:15
  that
• 55:15
  you've
• 55:15
  just
• 55:15
  drawn,
• 55:16
  ensure
• 55:16
  you're
• 55:16
  collecting
• 55:17
  some
• 55:17
  information
• 55:18
  on
• 55:18
  each
• 55:18
  one
• 55:18
  that
• 55:19
  is
• 55:19
  useful
• 55:19
  and
• 55:20
  you've
• 55:20
  got
• 55:20
  a
• 55:20
  feedback
• 55:20
  loop
• 55:21
  that
• 55:21
  makes
• 55:21
  sure
• 55:21
  that
• 55:21
  the
• 55:22
  people
• 55:22
  that
• 55:22
  can
• 55:22
  do
• 55:22
  something
• 55:23
  about
• 55:23
  it
• 55:23
  see
• 55:24
  that
• 55:24
  data
• 55:24
  and
• 55:25
  see
• 55:25
  that
• 55:25
  data
• 55:26
  fast
• 55:26
  enough
• 55:27
  to
• 55:27
  be
• 55:27
  able
• 55:27
  to
• 55:27
  change
• 55:28
  something
• 55:28
  quick
• 55:28
  enough
• 55:29
  for
• 55:29
  it
• 55:29
  to
• 55:29
  matter.
• 55:31
  Do
• 55:31
  those
• 55:31
  things
• 55:32
  and
• 55:32
  you'll
• 55:32
  start
• 55:32
  to
• 55:33
  have
• 55:34
  a
• 55:34
  massive
• 55:34
  difference.
• 55:35
  And
• 55:35
  I
• 55:35
  guess
• 55:35
  the
• 55:36
  final
• 55:36
  one
• 55:36
  is
• 55:38
  learn
• 55:39
  what
• 55:39
  to
• 55:39
  say
• 55:39
  no
• 55:39
  to.
• 55:40
  So
• 55:41
  if
• 55:41
  you
• 55:41
  take
• 55:42
  those
• 55:42
  first
• 55:42
  two
• 55:42
  points,
• 55:43
  you're
• 55:43
  going
• 55:43
  to
• 55:43
  get
• 55:43
  a
• 55:43
  lot
• 55:43
  of
• 55:43
  information.
• 55:45
  Learn
• 55:45
  within
• 55:45
  your
• 55:46
  business
• 55:46
  which
• 55:46
  are
• 55:46
  the
• 55:47
  things
• 55:47
  you
• 55:47
  can
• 55:47
  ignore
• 55:48
  or
• 55:48
  at
• 55:49
  least
• 55:49
  put
• 55:49
  on
• 55:49
  the
• 55:49
  backlog
• 55:50
  for
• 55:50
  later
• 55:51
  that
• 55:51
  aren't
• 55:51
  going
• 55:51
  to
• 55:51
  have
• 55:52
  the
• 55:52
  same
• 55:52
  impact
• 55:53
  as
• 55:53
  the
• 55:53
  things
• 55:54
  that
• 55:54
  will
• 55:54
  add
• 55:54
  true
• 55:54
  value.
• 55:55
  That's
• 55:55
  probably
• 55:56
  the
• 55:56
  hardest
• 55:56
  is
• 55:57
  understand
• 55:57
  where
• 55:58
  the
• 55:58
  value
• 55:58
  is
• 55:58
  and
• 55:58
  the
• 55:59
  things
• 55:59
  that
• 55:59
  you
• 55:59
  have
• 55:59
  to
• 56:00
  say
• 56:00
  no
• 56:00
  to
• 56:01
  for
• 56:01
  your
• 56:01
  business.
• 56:02
  My
• 56:02
  favorite
• 56:03
  of
• 56:03
  the
• 56:03
  things
• 56:03
  he
• 56:04
  said
• 56:04
  just
• 56:04
  there
• 56:04
  was
• 56:05
  talking
• 56:06
  about
• 56:06
  the
• 56:06
  idea
• 56:07
  of
• 56:07
  drawing
• 56:08
  the
• 56:08
  customer
• 56:08
  journey
• 56:09
  on
• 56:09
  a
• 56:09
  map.
• 56:10
  Now
• 56:10
  when
• 56:11
  you
• 56:11
  say
• 56:11
  that,
• 56:12
  are
• 56:12
  you
• 56:12
  suggesting
• 56:13
  that
• 56:13
  our
• 56:14
  listeners,
• 56:14
  the
• 56:14
  founders,
• 56:15
  get
• 56:16
  everybody
• 56:16
  on
• 56:16
  board
• 56:17
  who
• 56:17
  might
• 56:17
  touch
• 56:18
  on
• 56:18
  those
• 56:18
  points.
• 56:18
  For
• 56:19
  example,
• 56:20
  if
• 56:21
  the
• 56:21
  customer's
• 56:21
  journey
• 56:22
  begins
• 56:22
  with
• 56:23
  a
• 56:24
  phone
• 56:24
  call,
• 56:24
  I
• 56:24
  don't
• 56:24
  know
• 56:25
  why
• 56:25
  it
• 56:25
  would,
• 56:25
  but
• 56:25
  doesn't
• 56:26
  matter.
• 56:26
  Begins
• 56:26
  with
• 56:26
  a
• 56:27
  phone
• 56:27
  call.
• 56:27
  Are
• 56:28
  we
• 56:28
  getting
• 56:28
  the
• 56:28
  person
• 56:28
  who
• 56:28
  would
• 56:29
  make
• 56:29
  that
• 56:29
  phone
• 56:29
  call
• 56:30
  in
• 56:30
  to
• 56:31
  kind
• 56:31
  of
• 56:31
  explain
• 56:32
  how
• 56:32
  that
• 56:32
  all
• 56:32
  works
• 56:33
  first
• 56:33
  or
• 56:34
  are
• 56:34
  we
• 56:34
  just
• 56:35
  thinking
• 56:35
  about
• 56:35
  it
• 56:36
  at
• 56:36
  like
• 56:36
  a
• 56:37
  eagle
• 56:37
  eye
• 56:37
  view
• 56:38
  as
• 56:38
  a
• 56:39
  founder,
• 56:40
  looking
• 56:40
  at
• 56:40
  the
• 56:41
  entire
• 56:41
  mechanics
• 56:42
  of
• 56:42
  the
• 56:42
  thing
• 56:42
  or
• 56:42
  are
• 56:43
  we
• 56:43
  getting
• 56:43
  like
• 56:43
  really
• 56:44
  specific
• 56:45
  in.
• 56:46
  I
• 56:46
  think,
• 56:47
  yeah,
• 56:47
  go
• 56:47
  ahead.
• 56:47
  I
• 56:48
  mean,
• 56:48
  to
• 56:48
  start
• 56:48
  with,
• 56:48
  I
• 56:48
  mean,
• 56:48
  I
• 56:49
  like
• 56:49
  to
• 56:49
  keep
• 56:49
  things
• 56:49
  really
• 56:49
  simple
• 56:50
  to
• 56:50
  start
• 56:50
  with.
• 56:50
  You
• 56:51
  know,
• 56:51
  if
• 56:51
  you're
• 56:51
  a
• 56:51
  founder,
• 56:51
  you're
• 56:52
  sat
• 56:52
  here
• 56:52
  right
• 56:52
  now,
• 56:52
  you're
• 56:53
  listening
• 56:53
  to
• 56:53
  it,
• 56:54
  pick
• 56:54
  up
• 56:54
  a
• 56:54
  piece
• 56:54
  of
• 56:54
  paper
• 56:55
  and
• 56:55
  based
• 56:55
  on
• 56:55
  your
• 56:55
  understanding
• 56:56
  of
• 56:56
  your
• 56:56
  business,
• 56:57
  literally
• 56:57
  draw
• 56:57
  out
• 56:58
  where
• 56:58
  you
• 56:58
  think,
• 56:58
  what
• 56:59
  you
• 56:59
  think
• 56:59
  your
• 56:59
  customer
• 56:59
  lifecycle
• 57:00
  is.
• 57:00
  You
• 57:00
  know,
• 57:01
  when
• 57:01
  they
• 57:01
  pick
• 57:01
  up
• 57:01
  that
• 57:02
  phone
• 57:02
  and
• 57:02
  make
• 57:02
  that
• 57:02
  call
• 57:02
  if
• 57:02
  that's
• 57:03
  how
• 57:03
  they're
• 57:03
  doing
• 57:03
  it.
• 57:04
  When
• 57:04
  they
• 57:04
  get
• 57:05
  the
• 57:05
  product
• 57:05
  through
• 57:05
  the
• 57:05
  door
• 57:06
  business.
• 57:06
  Yeah.
• 57:07
  When
• 57:07
  they
• 57:07
  download
• 57:07
  the
• 57:07
  app,
• 57:08
  when
• 57:08
  they
• 57:08
  see
• 57:08
  an
• 57:08
  ad,
• 57:09
  when
• 57:09
  they
• 57:09
  use
• 57:09
  it
• 57:09
  for
• 57:10
  the
• 57:10
  first
• 57:10
  time,
• 57:10
  when
• 57:10
  they've
• 57:10
  used
• 57:11
  it
• 57:11
  for
• 57:11
  the
• 57:11
  10th
• 57:11
  time,
• 57:11
  when
• 57:11
  they've
• 57:12
  used
• 57:12
  it
• 57:12
  for
• 57:12
  the
• 57:12
  100th
• 57:12
  time,
• 57:13
  put
• 57:13
  all
• 57:13
  those
• 57:13
  things
• 57:14
  in.
• 57:14
  When
• 57:14
  they
• 57:14
  decide
• 57:15
  they
• 57:15
  want
• 57:15
  to
• 57:15
  cancel,
• 57:16
  when
• 57:16
  there's
• 57:16
  something
• 57:16
  going
• 57:16
  on
• 57:16
  in
• 57:17
  their
• 57:17
  life,
• 57:17
  write
• 57:17
  down
• 57:18
  everything
• 57:18
  you
• 57:18
  know
• 57:18
  about
• 57:19
  that.
• 57:20
  That
• 57:20
  gives
• 57:21
  you
• 57:21
  your.
• 57:21
  It's
• 57:21
  an
• 57:21
  assumed
• 57:22
  one
• 57:22
  because
• 57:22
  presumably
• 57:23
  you
• 57:23
  don't
• 57:23
  understand
• 57:23
  every
• 57:23
  bit
• 57:24
  of
• 57:24
  it.
• 57:24
  That
• 57:24
  detail.
• 57:25
  Then
• 57:25
  to
• 57:25
  your
• 57:25
  point,
• 57:25
  to
• 57:26
  each
• 57:26
  of
• 57:26
  those
• 57:26
  areas,
• 57:26
  you
• 57:27
  can
• 57:27
  then
• 57:27
  go
• 57:27
  to,
• 57:27
  well,
• 57:27
  who
• 57:28
  actually
• 57:28
  owns
• 57:28
  this
• 57:28
  bit?
• 57:29
  Who
• 57:29
  owns.
• 57:29
  Who
• 57:29
  is
• 57:29
  the
• 57:30
  person?
• 57:30
  Who
• 57:30
  is
• 57:30
  the
• 57:30
  person
• 57:30
  getting
• 57:31
  phoned?
• 57:31
  Speak
• 57:32
  to
• 57:32
  that
• 57:32
  person
• 57:32
  and
• 57:32
  find
• 57:33
  out
• 57:33
  the
• 57:33
  details.
• 57:33
  Sanity
• 57:34
  check
• 57:34
  that
• 57:34
  that
• 57:34
  map
• 57:35
  is
• 57:35
  right
• 57:35
  with
• 57:35
  your
• 57:35
  team.
• 57:36
  And
• 57:36
  in
• 57:37
  short,
• 57:37
  you
• 57:37
  know,
• 57:37
  just,
• 57:37
  just
• 57:37
  correct
• 57:38
  it.
• 57:38
  But
• 57:39
  don't
• 57:39
  overthink
• 57:39
  it.
• 57:40
  Start
• 57:40
  rough,
• 57:41
  do
• 57:41
  a
• 57:41
  bad
• 57:42
  first
• 57:42
  draft
• 57:42
  of
• 57:42
  it.
• 57:42
  Just
• 57:42
  get
• 57:43
  the
• 57:43
  ideas
• 57:43
  down,
• 57:43
  go
• 57:44
  to
• 57:44
  the
• 57:44
  people
• 57:44
  involved
• 57:44
  and
• 57:45
  say,
• 57:45
  does
• 57:45
  this
• 57:45
  look
• 57:46
  right?
• 57:46
  And
• 57:46
  then
• 57:46
  they'll
• 57:47
  go,
• 57:47
  oh,
• 57:47
  no,
• 57:47
  that
• 57:47
  bit's
• 57:48
  wrong,
• 57:48
  that
• 57:48
  bit's
• 57:48
  right,
• 57:48
  that
• 57:48
  bit's
• 57:48
  wrong.
• 57:49
  And
• 57:49
  then
• 57:49
  refine,
• 57:49
  refine,
• 57:50
  refine.
• 57:51
  Having
• 57:51
  something
• 57:51
  down
• 57:52
  is
• 57:52
  better
• 57:52
  than
• 57:52
  nothing.
• 57:53
  Agreed.
• 57:53
  I
• 57:54
  think
• 57:54
  I
• 57:55
  often
• 57:55
  say
• 57:56
  a
• 57:57
  good
• 57:57
  thing
• 57:58
  is
• 57:58
  better
• 57:59
  than
• 57:59
  nothing.
• 57:59
  Always.
• 58:00
  And
• 58:01
  I
• 58:02
  love
• 58:02
  what
• 58:02
  you
• 58:02
  said
• 58:02
  there
• 58:03
  because
• 58:03
  you
• 58:03
  were
• 58:03
  talking
• 58:04
  about
• 58:04
  the
• 58:04
  idea
• 58:04
  that
• 58:05
  they
• 58:05
  might
• 58:06
  actually
• 58:06
  realize
• 58:06
  in
• 58:07
  that
• 58:08
  drawing,
• 58:08
  that
• 58:08
  map
• 58:09
  out
• 58:09
  that
• 58:09
  nobody
• 58:09
  owns
• 58:10
  a
• 58:10
  big
• 58:10
  part
• 58:10
  of
• 58:11
  that
• 58:11
  process.
• 58:11
  Quite
• 58:12
  possibly
• 58:12
  it
• 58:12
  might
• 58:13
  be
• 58:13
  they
• 58:13
  don't
• 58:13
  know
• 58:13
  who
• 58:14
  owns
• 58:14
  that
• 58:14
  bit
• 58:14
  or
• 58:14
  nobody
• 58:15
  owns
• 58:15
  that
• 58:15
  bit,
• 58:16
  or
• 58:16
  they
• 58:16
  go
• 58:17
  round
• 58:17
  and
• 58:17
  it
• 58:17
  turns
• 58:18
  out
• 58:18
  that
• 58:18
  the
• 58:18
  other
• 58:18
  thing
• 58:18
  I've
• 58:19
  seen
• 58:19
  is
• 58:19
  people
• 58:19
  will
• 58:19
  do
• 58:19
  that,
• 58:19
  speak
• 58:20
  to
• 58:20
  their
• 58:20
  team,
• 58:20
  and
• 58:20
  it
• 58:21
  turns
• 58:21
  out
• 58:21
  what
• 58:21
  they
• 58:22
  thought
• 58:22
  was
• 58:22
  the
• 58:22
  end
• 58:22
  to
• 58:23
  end
• 58:23
  really
• 58:23
  isn't,
• 58:24
  you
• 58:24
  know,
• 58:24
  because
• 58:24
  everybody
• 58:25
  has
• 58:25
  a
• 58:25
  slightly
• 58:25
  different
• 58:26
  view.
• 58:26
  And
• 58:26
  that
• 58:26
  can
• 58:26
  be
• 58:27
  fascinating,
• 58:27
  honestly.
• 58:27
  You
• 58:28
  can
• 58:28
  run
• 58:28
  a
• 58:28
  workshop
• 58:29
  where
• 58:29
  you
• 58:29
  bring
• 58:29
  everyone
• 58:30
  together,
• 58:30
  look
• 58:30
  at
• 58:30
  that
• 58:31
  map,
• 58:31
  10
• 58:31
  different
• 58:32
  people
• 58:32
  look
• 58:32
  at
• 58:32
  it
• 58:32
  and
• 58:32
  go,
• 58:33
  that's
• 58:33
  not
• 58:34
  right.
• 58:34
  And
• 58:34
  then
• 58:34
  you
• 58:34
  realize
• 58:35
  they
• 58:35
  all
• 58:35
  have
• 58:35
  10
• 58:36
  different
• 58:36
  views
• 58:36
  of
• 58:36
  it.
• 58:37
  That
• 58:37
  alone
• 58:38
  is
• 58:38
  useful
• 58:38
  just
• 58:39
  for
• 58:39
  aligning
• 58:39
  everybody
• 58:40
  around
• 58:40
  what
• 58:40
  they
• 58:40
  think
• 58:41
  it
• 58:41
  is,
• 58:42
  this.
• 58:42
  And
• 58:43
  then
• 58:43
  you
• 58:43
  can
• 58:43
  start
• 58:43
  to
• 58:43
  talk
• 58:43
  about
• 58:44
  what
• 58:44
  it
• 58:44
  should
• 58:44
  be.
• 58:44
  It's
• 58:45
  very
• 58:45
  similar
• 58:45
  to
• 58:45
  a
• 58:46
  point
• 58:46
  at
• 58:46
  which
• 58:47
  I'm
• 58:47
  often
• 58:47
  brought
• 58:48
  in
• 58:48
  is
• 58:49
  that
• 58:49
  idea
• 58:50
  that,
• 58:50
  like,
• 58:50
  they've
• 58:51
  grown
• 58:51
  and
• 58:51
  grown
• 58:52
  and
• 58:52
  grown
• 58:53
  and
• 58:53
  the,
• 58:54
  the
• 58:55
  message
• 58:55
  that
• 58:55
  they're
• 58:56
  putting
• 58:56
  out
• 58:56
  there
• 58:56
  is
• 58:57
  nowhere
• 58:57
  in
• 58:58
  any
• 58:58
  way
• 58:59
  similar
• 58:59
  to
• 59:00
  what
• 59:00
  they're
• 59:00
  delivering
• 59:01
  or
• 59:01
  what
• 59:01
  their
• 59:02
  end
• 59:02
  user
• 59:03
  wants
• 59:03
  and
• 59:03
  they
• 59:04
  lose
• 59:04
  that
• 59:04
  soul.
• 59:05
  And
• 59:06
  what
• 59:06
  you're
• 59:06
  talking
• 59:07
  about
• 59:07
  right
• 59:07
  there
• 59:07
  and
• 59:08
  sitting
• 59:08
  down
• 59:08
  with
• 59:08
  teams
• 59:09
  and
• 59:09
  really
• 59:09
  understanding,
• 59:10
  well,
• 59:10
  how
• 59:10
  does
• 59:10
  this
• 59:10
  all
• 59:10
  fit
• 59:11
  together?
• 59:12
  That
• 59:13
  is
• 59:13
  one
• 59:13
  great
• 59:13
  way
• 59:14
  to
• 59:14
  find
• 59:14
  the
• 59:14
  soul
• 59:15
  of
• 59:15
  what
• 59:15
  your
• 59:16
  technical
• 59:17
  side
• 59:18
  is
• 59:18
  working
• 59:19
  on
• 59:19
  and
• 59:19
  understanding
• 59:20
  and
• 59:21
  the
• 59:21
  mechanics
• 59:21
  of
• 59:22
  it
• 59:22
  all.
• 59:23
  Obviously,
• 59:25
  you
• 59:25
  know,
• 59:25
  our
• 59:25
  biggest
• 59:26
  joint
• 59:26
  value
• 59:26
  is
• 59:27
  looking
• 59:28
  at
• 59:28
  these
• 59:28
  things
• 59:28
  for
• 59:28
  the
• 59:28
  ambitious
• 59:29
  founder
• 59:30
  and
• 59:30
  helping
• 59:30
  them
• 59:31
  through
• 59:31
  that.
• 59:31
  I
• 59:32
  obviously
• 59:32
  get
• 59:32
  it
• 59:32
  from
• 59:33
  a
• 59:33
  marketing
• 59:33
  point
• 59:33
  of
• 59:33
  view
• 59:33
  and
• 59:34
  you
• 59:34
  from
• 59:34
  a
• 59:34
  product
• 59:34
  point
• 59:35
  of
• 59:35
  view.
• 59:35
  This
• 59:35
  is,
• 59:36
  this
• 59:36
  is
• 59:36
  kind
• 59:36
  of
• 59:37
  once
• 59:37
  you
• 59:37
  figure
• 59:37
  out
• 59:38
  that
• 59:38
  clarity,
• 59:38
  both
• 59:39
  from
• 59:39
  a
• 59:40
  marketing
• 59:40
  point
• 59:40
  of
• 59:40
  view,
• 59:41
  the
• 59:41
  right
• 59:41
  people,
• 59:42
  the
• 59:42
  right
• 59:42
  message
• 59:44
  and
• 59:45
  something
• 59:45
  that
• 59:45
  they
• 59:45
  really
• 59:46
  care
• 59:46
  about.
• 59:46
  Right.
• 59:46
  And
• 59:47
  then
• 59:47
  you
• 59:47
  make
• 59:48
  sure
• 59:48
  that
• 59:49
  they,
• 59:49
  they
• 59:50
  focus
• 59:50
  on
• 59:50
  the
• 59:51
  outcome
• 59:51
  and
• 59:51
  the
• 59:51
  impact
• 59:52
  throughout
• 59:53
  the
• 59:53
  entire
• 59:54
  product
• 59:55
  and
• 59:55
  customer
• 59:56
  experience.
• 59:56
  And
• 59:57
  to
• 59:58
  that
• 59:58
  point,
• 59:59
  if
• 59:59
  you
• 59:59
  could
• 1:00:00
  give
• 1:00:00
  a
• 1:00:00
  founder
• 1:00:01
  in
• 1:00:01
  series
• 1:00:02
  A
• 1:00:02
  a
• 1:00:03
  single
• 1:00:04
  non
• 1:00:04
  negotiable
• 1:00:05
  rule
• 1:00:06
  that
• 1:00:06
  guarantees
• 1:00:07
  a
• 1:00:07
  better
• 1:00:08
  product
• 1:00:08
  experience,
• 1:00:09
  what
• 1:00:10
  would
• 1:00:10
  that
• 1:00:10
  one
• 1:00:13
  rule?
• 1:00:13
  Sorry,
• 1:00:14
  really
• 1:00:14
  good
• 1:00:14
  question.
• 1:00:16
  I
• 1:00:16
  think
• 1:00:16
  the
• 1:00:17
  one
• 1:00:17
  golden
• 1:00:18
  rule
• 1:00:18
  that
• 1:00:18
  I
• 1:00:18
  would
• 1:00:18
  give
• 1:00:19
  to
• 1:00:19
  that
• 1:00:19
  founder,
• 1:00:20
  the
• 1:00:20
  series
• 1:00:20
  A,
• 1:00:23
  I'm
• 1:00:23
  kind
• 1:00:24
  of
• 1:00:24
  torn
• 1:00:24
  on
• 1:00:24
  two,
• 1:00:24
  which
• 1:00:25
  makes
• 1:00:25
  this
• 1:00:25
  kind
• 1:00:25
  of
• 1:00:25
  tricky,.
• 1:00:26
  But
• 1:00:26
  it
• 1:00:26
  must
• 1:00:26
  be
• 1:00:27
  one.
• 1:00:27
  I'll
• 1:00:28
  give
• 1:00:28
  one.
• 1:00:28
  I'll
• 1:00:28
  give
• 1:00:29
  one.
• 1:00:29
  I'll
• 1:00:29
  just
• 1:00:29
  bang
• 1:00:30
  the
• 1:00:30
  same
• 1:00:30
  drum
• 1:00:30
  again.
• 1:00:32
  Will
• 1:00:32
  be
• 1:00:34
  ensure
• 1:00:35
  that
• 1:00:35
  you've
• 1:00:35
  understood
• 1:00:36
  that
• 1:00:36
  customer
• 1:00:36
  life
• 1:00:36
  cycle,
• 1:00:37
  as
• 1:00:37
  we've
• 1:00:37
  just
• 1:00:37
  discussed.
• 1:00:38
  Ensure
• 1:00:38
  that
• 1:00:38
  you've
• 1:00:39
  ensure
• 1:00:39
  that
• 1:00:40
  you
• 1:00:40
  understand
• 1:00:40
  the
• 1:00:40
  customer
• 1:00:41
  life
• 1:00:41
  cycle
• 1:00:42
  at
• 1:00:42
  each
• 1:00:42
  point
• 1:00:43
  and
• 1:00:43
  the
• 1:00:43
  outcomes
• 1:00:44
  you're
• 1:00:44
  trying
• 1:00:44
  to
• 1:00:44
  drive
• 1:00:44
  at
• 1:00:45
  each
• 1:00:45
  point
• 1:00:45
  of
• 1:00:45
  that
• 1:00:46
  life
• 1:00:46
  cycle.
• 1:00:47
  Do
• 1:00:48
  that
• 1:00:48
  number
• 1:00:49
  one.
• 1:00:49
  Number
• 1:00:50
  two
• 1:00:50
  would
• 1:00:50
  be
• 1:00:50
  ensure
• 1:00:50
  that
• 1:00:50
  you've
• 1:00:51
  understood
• 1:00:51
  what
• 1:00:51
  you've
• 1:00:51
  said
• 1:00:51
  no
• 1:00:51
  to.
• 1:00:54
  I
• 1:00:55
  was
• 1:00:55
  like,
• 1:00:55
  he's
• 1:00:55
  gonna
• 1:00:55
  sneak
• 1:00:56
  it
• 1:00:56
  in.
• 1:00:57
  The
• 1:00:57
  other
• 1:00:57
  one
• 1:00:58
  is,
• 1:00:58
  yeah,
• 1:00:59
  learn
• 1:00:59
  what
• 1:00:59
  to
• 1:00:59
  say
• 1:00:59
  no
• 1:01:00
  to
• 1:01:00
  would
• 1:01:00
  be
• 1:01:00
  the
• 1:01:00
  second
• 1:01:00
  one.
• 1:01:00
  But
• 1:01:01
  that's
• 1:01:01
  that,
• 1:01:01
  that's
• 1:01:02
  good
• 1:01:02
  life
• 1:01:02
  advice,
• 1:01:02
  not
• 1:01:03
  just
• 1:01:03
  business
• 1:01:03
  advice.
• 1:01:04
  Aligned
• 1:01:04
  with
• 1:01:04
  the
• 1:01:05
  time
• 1:01:05
  I
• 1:01:05
  lost
• 1:01:05
  most
• 1:01:06
  of
• 1:01:06
  my
• 1:01:06
  hair,
• 1:01:06
  I
• 1:01:06
  realized
• 1:01:07
  that
• 1:01:07
  I
• 1:01:07
  need
• 1:01:07
  to
• 1:01:07
  say
• 1:01:08
  no
• 1:01:08
  more
• 1:01:08
  to
• 1:01:08
  things.
• 1:01:09
  So
• 1:01:09
  I
• 1:01:10
  totally
• 1:01:10
  get
• 1:01:10
  it.
• 1:01:10
  Obviously.
• 1:01:12
  Thank
• 1:01:12
  you,
• 1:01:12
  Scott,
• 1:01:13
  for
• 1:01:13
  being
• 1:01:13
  on
• 1:01:13
  the
• 1:01:13
  podcast.
• 1:01:14
  We
• 1:01:14
  are
• 1:01:14
  building
• 1:01:15
  a
• 1:01:15
  community
• 1:01:16
  of
• 1:01:16
  experts
• 1:01:17
  for
• 1:01:17
  you,
• 1:01:17
  the
• 1:01:17
  founder.
• 1:01:18
  Join
• 1:01:19
  us.
• 1:01:19
  Do
• 1:01:19
  subscribe
• 1:01:19
  if
• 1:01:20
  you're
• 1:01:20
  on
• 1:01:20
  YouTube
• 1:01:20
  or
• 1:01:21
  Spotify
• 1:01:21
  or
• 1:01:22
  Apple
• 1:01:22
  or
• 1:01:23
  wherever
• 1:01:23
  you
• 1:01:23
  listen
• 1:01:24
  before
• 1:01:25
  I
• 1:01:25
  go.
• 1:01:26
  And
• 1:01:27
  I
• 1:01:27
  genuinely
• 1:01:27
  hope
• 1:01:28
  you
• 1:01:28
  found
• 1:01:28
  this
• 1:01:29
  useful
• 1:01:29
  listener
• 1:01:30
  friend.
• 1:01:31
  What's
• 1:01:31
  one
• 1:01:32
  question
• 1:01:32
  you
• 1:01:33
  would
• 1:01:33
  like
• 1:01:33
  to
• 1:01:33
  ask
• 1:01:33
  the
• 1:01:34
  next
• 1:01:34
  guest
• 1:01:35
  on
• 1:01:35
  the
• 1:01:35
  show
• 1:01:36
  without
• 1:01:36
  knowing
• 1:01:36
  who
• 1:01:36
  the
• 1:01:36
  hell
• 1:01:37
  they
• 1:01:37
  are?
• 1:01:37
  The
• 1:01:37
  one
• 1:01:38
  question
• 1:01:38
  I
• 1:01:38
  would
• 1:01:39
  ask
• 1:01:39
  to
• 1:01:39
  the
• 1:01:40
  next
• 1:01:40
  guest,
• 1:01:42
  and
• 1:01:42
  this
• 1:01:43
  is
• 1:01:43
  based
• 1:01:43
  on
• 1:01:43
  the
• 1:01:43
  fact
• 1:01:43
  that
• 1:01:43
  I've
• 1:01:44
  done
• 1:01:44
  a
• 1:01:44
  lot
• 1:01:44
  of
• 1:01:44
  work
• 1:01:44
  with
• 1:01:44
  younger
• 1:01:45
  people
• 1:01:47
  who
• 1:01:47
  are
• 1:01:47
  starting
• 1:01:48
  off
• 1:01:48
  in
• 1:01:48
  their
• 1:01:48
  career.
• 1:01:49
  So
• 1:01:49
  if
• 1:01:50
  you
• 1:01:50
  were
• 1:01:50
  speaking
• 1:01:51
  to
• 1:01:51
  somebody
• 1:01:51
  who's
• 1:01:52
  on
• 1:01:52
  their
• 1:01:52
  first
• 1:01:53
  day
• 1:01:54
  of
• 1:01:55
  a
• 1:01:55
  role
• 1:01:56
  in
• 1:01:56
  your
• 1:01:56
  industry,
• 1:01:58
  what's
• 1:01:59
  the
• 1:01:59
  one
• 1:02:01
  thing
• 1:02:01
  you
• 1:02:01
  would
• 1:02:01
  tell
• 1:02:02
  them
• 1:02:02
  to
• 1:02:02
  watch
• 1:02:02
  out
• 1:02:03
  for?
• 1:02:04
  The
• 1:02:04
  one
• 1:02:04
  Gotcha.
• 1:02:05
  That
• 1:02:05
  they
• 1:02:05
  need
• 1:02:06
  to
• 1:02:06
  watch
• 1:02:06
  out
• 1:02:06
  for
• 1:02:07
  that
• 1:02:07
  caught
• 1:02:07
  you
• 1:02:08
  out
• 1:02:08
  in
• 1:02:09
  the
• 1:02:09
  early
• 1:02:09
  days
• 1:02:09
  of
• 1:02:09
  your
• 1:02:09
  career.
• 1:02:10
  There
• 1:02:10
  you
• 1:02:10
  go.
• 1:02:11
  Give
• 1:02:11
  that
• 1:02:12
  sage
• 1:02:12
  advice,
• 1:02:13
  people.
• 1:02:13
  So,
• 1:02:14
  yes,
• 1:02:14
  I
• 1:02:14
  will.
• 1:02:15
  Randomly,
• 1:02:16
  I'm
• 1:02:16
  shuffling
• 1:02:16
  it
• 1:02:17
  like
• 1:02:17
  a
• 1:02:17
  deck.
• 1:02:17
  They're
• 1:02:18
  all
• 1:02:18
  going
• 1:02:18
  to
• 1:02:18
  go
• 1:02:18
  into
• 1:02:18
  a
• 1:02:19
  deck
• 1:02:19
  and
• 1:02:19
  may
• 1:02:19
  shoot
• 1:02:20
  out
• 1:02:20
  at
• 1:02:20
  some
• 1:02:20
  point.
• 1:02:21
  So
• 1:02:21
  your
• 1:02:21
  question
• 1:02:22
  will
• 1:02:22
  be
• 1:02:23
  thrown
• 1:02:23
  to
• 1:02:23
  somebody
• 1:02:24
  at
• 1:02:24
  some
• 1:02:24
  point
• 1:02:24
  in
• 1:02:24
  the
• 1:02:24
  future.
• 1:02:25
  So
• 1:02:26
  thank
• 1:02:26
  you,
• 1:02:26
  Scott,
• 1:02:26
  for
• 1:02:27
  your
• 1:02:27
  time
• 1:02:27
  today.
• 1:02:28
  All
• 1:02:28
  Scott's
• 1:02:29
  details
• 1:02:29
  from
• 1:02:30
  Product
• 1:02:30
  of
• 1:02:31
  Experience
• 1:02:32
  is
• 1:02:32
  down
• 1:02:33
  below
• 1:02:33
  in
• 1:02:33
  the
• 1:02:33
  show
• 1:02:34
  notes
• 1:02:34
  and
• 1:02:34
  on
• 1:02:34
  YouTube.
• 1:02:35
  It'll
• 1:02:35
  be
• 1:02:35
  in
• 1:02:35
  the
• 1:02:35
  description.
• 1:02:36
  Do
• 1:02:36
  get
• 1:02:37
  in
• 1:02:37
  touch
• 1:02:37
  with
• 1:02:37
  him.
• 1:02:37
  This
• 1:02:37
  guy
• 1:02:38
  is
• 1:02:38
  awesome.
• 1:02:39
  We
• 1:02:39
  get
• 1:02:39
  on
• 1:02:39
  really
• 1:02:40
  well
• 1:02:40
  and
• 1:02:41
  we
• 1:02:41
  will
• 1:02:41
  certainly
• 1:02:42
  talk
• 1:02:42
  about
• 1:02:43
  the
• 1:02:43
  retention
• 1:02:44
  element
• 1:02:44
  if
• 1:02:44
  you
• 1:02:45
  want
• 1:02:45
  us
• 1:02:45
  to.
• 1:02:45
  So
• 1:02:45
  again,
• 1:02:46
  comment
• 1:02:46
  down
• 1:02:46
  below
• 1:02:46
  and
• 1:02:47
  let
• 1:02:47
  us
• 1:02:47
  know
• 1:02:47
  if
• 1:02:47
  you'd
• 1:02:47
  like
• 1:02:47
  to
• 1:02:48
  see
• 1:02:48
  that.
• 1:02:49
  He's
• 1:02:49
  a
• 1:02:49
  lovely
• 1:02:49
  chap
• 1:02:49
  and
• 1:02:50
  can
• 1:02:50
  totally
• 1:02:51
  sort
• 1:02:51
  out
• 1:02:51
  your
• 1:02:52
  SaaS.
• 1:02:53
  If
• 1:02:53
  you're
• 1:02:53
  in
• 1:02:54
  a
• 1:02:54
  bit
• 1:02:54
  of
• 1:02:54
  a
• 1:02:54
  gray
• 1:02:54
  area
• 1:02:55
  right
• 1:02:55
  now
• 1:02:55
  and
• 1:02:55
  you
• 1:02:55
  need
• 1:02:56
  a
• 1:02:56
  bit
• 1:02:56
  of
• 1:02:56
  help,
• 1:02:56
  do
• 1:02:57
  reach
• 1:02:57
  out
• 1:02:57
  to
• 1:02:57
  Scott.
• 1:02:57
  I'm
• 1:02:58
  sure
• 1:02:58
  he'd
• 1:02:58
  be
• 1:02:58
  happy
• 1:02:58
  to
• 1:02:59
  chat
• 1:02:59
  and
• 1:02:59
  see
• 1:02:59
  what
• 1:03:00
  he
• 1:03:00
  can
• 1:03:00
  do
• 1:03:00
  to
• 1:03:00
  help
• 1:03:00
  you.
• 1:03:01
  Thank
• 1:03:01
  you
• 1:03:02
  very
• 1:03:02
  much,
• 1:03:02
  Scott.