Latest / Therapy and Theology / S11 E1 | "What Does It Mean To Be Spiritually Healthy?" With Dr. Joel Muddamalle
Transcript
- Shae Hill: Welcome to today's episode of Therapy and Theology, where we help you work through what you walk through. I'm your host, Shea Hill, and I'm so glad that you're tuning in today. This season is called Health Check, where each week we're going to tackle one specific area in our life and learn how to be the healthiest, most whole version of ourselves. We'll cover spiritual, mental, emotional, and relational health over the next four weeks. And we're going to talk about how to be the healthiest, most whole version of ourselves. And in today's episode, I sit down with Dr. Joel Muddamalle and we talk all things spiritual health. And I cannot wait for you to hear it. As you listen to this season on Health Check, it's really for adults. But one of the biggest concerns I hear from youth pastors, teachers, and especially parents is this. How do I really help the young people in my life who are struggling emotionally and mentally? If that's you, you are not alone. That's why I want to tell you about the Youth Mental Health Coach Program from the American Association of Christian Counselors and Light University. It's a biblically-based, clinically excellent training that equips you with practical, real-world tools to support youth and their families. You'll learn how to recognize 15 of the most common mental health challenges that young people are facing today. including anxiety, depression, digital addiction, and emotional regulation. You'll also learn how to respond with care and when to step in and when to refer to a professional. Right now, you can receive a full tuition scholarship and get started for just a one-time $54 technology fee. If you're in ministry, education, counseling, or simply feel called to help, this training gives you the confidence to make a real difference. Learn more and apply at mentalhealthcoach.org, or you can visit the link in our show notes below. And before we jump in, here are a few reminders. Number one, subscribe and receive episodes straight to your inbox by clicking on the link in our show notes below. Secondly, we are launching a brand new podcast exclusive segment in 2026 called Listener Mail, and it's brought to you by our friends at Compassion International. These segments will include a question pulled from one of our listeners just like you and an answer from either Lysa, Jim or Dr. Joel. Tune in on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen and make sure you listen all the way through to the end so you don't miss it. And lastly, we We want to know how Therapy and Theology is helping you work through what you walk through. So leave us a review or a comment on YouTube and tell us all about it. Okay, now on to today's conversation. Hello, Joel. I'm glad to be with you today. I'm so excited for this conversation because we are the first episode kicking off this series that I'm loosely calling Health Check. But really, I wanted to kick off Therapy and Theology in 2026. diving into how can we really approach this year becoming the healthiest versions of ourselves and not just like physical health. I know that this is a big time of year for people to get back in their gym memberships. Maybe you're doing Whole30 or you have health goals that you're trying to- Dr. Joel Muddamalle: Heart 75, which nobody should ever try to accomplish in their life. Shae Hill: Right, exactly. So those are like all great. But I really wanted to look at, okay, if therapy and theology is here to help us work through what we're walking through, that's really more so talking about like our inside lives. And so we're going to spend the next couple of weeks talking through different areas of health. And I thought that it would be really important for us to start talking with spiritual health as the first episode, the first area of health that we dive into, and here's why. I believe that spiritual health is foundational for every other area in our life that we want to flourish in. I think when we are spiritually healthy, it keeps our motives pure for all of these other areas of our life that we want to flourish in. And so I'm really excited to pick your brain today just about how can we truly be spiritually healthy in 2026? So let's just go ahead and dive in. I want to hear in your own words or in your research, however you want to answer this, what does it mean to you to be a spiritually healthy person? Dr. Joel Muddamalle: Yeah. I mean, I think you kind of nailed it already, Shay. I think often what we think about with health, when we're getting into the new year, we're thinking so much about the outward appearance. Like we care a lot about what we look like. I'm in the gym pretty consistently, not because I try to be healthy, but that's the place where I do most of my thinking, which is kind of funny. And so January, it's like, you know, the the people that are in the gym all the time, they always kind of get annoyed. Cause it's like, Oh, here we go. The influx of all the brand new people that have all the best intentions. And, um, and honestly, there's a part of me that's just very empathetic. Like I really understand that because I find myself in the exact same pattern. And so if you find yourself in that place, like that's not a condemnation against you. That's like, man, there's an impulse that you have inside of you that is a really good impulse that And that impulse is that you're actually desiring health. You want your outward appearance to flourish. And I think what I love about what you said, Shae, is that that outward appearance flourishing in the biblical worldview is intimately and intricately connected to the inward flourishing of who we are. And so, you know, I'm a theology guy, so we'll get a little theology nerdy here for a second. Post-Enlightenment, kind of the post-Enlightenment movement, Industrial Revolution, like all this kind of stuff... created a different kind of thinking that made the physical and the spiritual as if they're two disparate or two separate categories. But in the ancient worldview, the biblical worldview, in the time of the New Testament, these two things were not separated. They were not disconnected. They were very, like I said, intimately interconnected. And I want to, some are like, well, Joel, I need you to prove it. Like, happy to. Let's take a look at Edens. We always go back to Eden. If our friend Lysa was here right now, she'd just be smiling from side to side. Eden is the place we go back to. And in Eden, I think it's fascinating that the human origin story begins begins with a physical creation in the sense that God steps down and he crafts Adam. And that Hebrew word Adam, it actually is a categorical term for all of humanity, right? So the way the ancient Hebrews were thinking about this, sometimes we think either or, like it has to be a singular individual. The ancient Hebrews are fine thinking both and. They're like, oh yeah, this is the story of the Adam and Adam. It is a poetic display of what does humanity's origin story look like? And so you've got that, that God comes down and he crafts humanity from the, from the Adama, which is the dust, the soil, that's the Hebrew word for soil. And he creates Adam, man. Right. And so instantly we're like earthly, physical, but then, um, Life doesn't begin, this is so wild, until God bends low and breathes his breath of life, the ruach, the spirit, into humanity, and that's when life begins. And so to point this out, to really exegetically and theologically affirm everything that you just said, Shae, it's like, when does real life begin? Real life begins when God's spirit, the spiritual reality, flourishes inside of the body and animates the rest of our body and so that's kind of a long way and i just want to give like that was an old testament example let me give a new testament verse first thessalonians um 5:23 this is Paul talking to the church in thessalonica and he says may god himself the god of peace sanctify you through and through. I kind of love that. He's already like, hey, by the way, this is a lot of work. Sanctification, a lot of work. It's going to have to take not just one through, maybe multiple throughs. So sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit be soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, the one who calls you and is faithful and he will do it. And so we find now two examples, one from the Old Testament and one from the New Testament that kind of bookends this idea that the human is a spiritual being, like we're both spiritual and physical. Okay, so to your question, what does it actually mean to be a spiritually healthy person? Post-fall, we have to take into consideration the reality of human brokenness. And so a spiritually healthy person, from my vantage point, is a person whose heart affection is aligned with head knowledge. And so there's heart love that is matched with head knowing, which then flows in what you actually do. The specifically healthy person is like spiritually healthy person is well aware of both their aim and their ambition. The spiritually healthy person has an aim for Jesus. Like that's who we're seeking after. And our ambition is to be like the one that we're aiming after. This is what brings spiritual health to us. And I think a spiritually healthy person, and this is kind of interesting in my vantage point, a spiritually healthy person is aware of emotional health and emotional decline. Mm-hmm. Sometimes we think that spiritually healthy equates to human perfection. Right. Or like we're just like we're living it, right? We're like at the top of our game. I'm unconvinced that's what the Bible is actually talking about when it comes to a spiritually healthy person. I mean think about Jesus. He's going through. through it. He is suffering. He's dealing with betrayal. He's dealing with Roman government oppression. He knows the cross is coming. There's demonic activity that's happening all over him. And so if we were like, man, you know, the condition to be spiritually healthy is everything is going well in your life, that you're just at peace with everything that's happening. I'd be like, well, then Jesus was an incredibly spiritually unhealthy person because he's going through a lot of stuff and we would never say that. So what does it mean to be spiritually healthy? It's not about perfection. Spiritual health is a commitment to progressive sanctification. It's saying like, I am aware of these areas of my life that I still need Jesus. You know, the indwelling Holy Spirit. I need some good friends around me. We're going to get some of these things. And then finally, I would just say like, when I think of the spiritually healthy person, I think of a person who takes accountability seriously. and exercises their God-given agency instead of opting for blame shifting or gaslighting and then kind of taking on this victim mentality. And in fact, we see this error all the way back in the garden with Adam and Eve. Adam's like, to God. It was the woman you gave me, God. Like if I'm Eve, I'm like, what is this knucklehead who was with me the entire time? Right now he's saying it's this, you know? And so, yeah, I think that's kind of what is a spiritual healthy person is aware that spiritual health is an action that starts. And as an action that continues to grow. I think of second Peter three 18 where Peter says, but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and savior Christ to him, be glory both now and forever. And so spiritually healthy person is the one who understands that they have received grace is a person who extends grace to others and is a person who has a knowledge of Jesus, of their Lord, and whose knowledge is being revealed in and through both their words and their action. And so I think that's what it means to be a spiritually healthy person. Shae Hill: Yeah, so good. I love so many things that you just said, but to kind of summarize it. Like, I love how you pointed out that we're spiritual beings here in a physical world. I think for some people listening today, that may be like a huge light bulb moment that goes on, but also some of the other things that you're talking about of what is our aim and what is our ambition? I wanted to point out John 17, three, this is the ESV translation. And it says, And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. I just love that verse because I feel like it sums up what we try to overcomplicate sometimes. I feel like this is where Jim would say it's simple, but not simplistic. Simplistic. Yeah. Of like, to know God, to know the one true God. And what an incredible aim for 2026, like that this would be a year that we would truly know God. And some of the other things that you're talking about, I also had in my notes as I was preparing for this conversation that like spiritual health does not equal spiritual perfection. And it's really easy, I think, to look at maybe people that even like have a platform or people that are on a stage or people that are kind of like front and center and maybe like assume like that is like the peak of spiritual health, like being on a platform. and being used by God in that way. But I love how you talk about, it's really more like our inside world, taking inventory of our inside world and only God can help us test like the intentions of our heart and to know like the purities and impurities of our heart. And something else that I have thought about too, is I think a component of spiritual health is spiritual honesty and like really sitting before the Lord in honesty and being honest with him about where we're at, being honest with him about how we feel about him and our relationship with him. And I think that's a component that will come up today of just really like, yeah, sitting in like transparency. I think that also translates to like spiritual community, which I'm sure we'll get to. But I love so many things that you just shared, Joel. So as we're thinking about spiritual, health, we kind of know like what the ultimate goal or what the aim would be. What would you say are some things we need to be aware of that would threaten our spiritual health? What are some of these like signs or signals that something is off almost like the dashboard of our car, the check engine light coming on? What are some signs that maybe something is a little bit off in our spiritual health? Dr. Joel Muddamalle: Yeah, there's kind of an ancient writer. Her name is Teresa of Avila. And Teresa of Avila wrote a really great book with this concept. And the concept is of the interior castle, the interior castle. So if I remember correctly, I think she kind of came up in the medieval kind of era. And so like the idea of the castle, you know, like the monastery, you know, Britt and I were just watching a movie. And in the movie, they were talking No, it wasn't. Actually, I lied, Shae. It wasn't a movie. This is so wild. You know where it was? I got my teeth cleaned yesterday and I was at the dentist. That's where this was. And I was sitting in the lobby and at my dentist's place, they have the TV and they play like house to farm or whatever these HGTV shows are. And I just saw this couple is looking for a house, but they want to have horses. And so they're in Pennsylvania, and they go to a place, and it's like a barn, but they walk to the back, and the gal who's showing the house is like, this is the most beautiful part of this house. And it's the original kind of brown, brick arches of the very first barn that was back there that's like super ancient like it looks like something and it's like in ruins you know and um but you still see like all the arches intact and um when I think about that example and I think about what you're asking about with like what are things that we need to be aware of with our spiritual health and I think about a person like teresa villa who wrote about the interior castle I think there's the sense that like the things that we need to be aware of are the things that can erode our inner being and our exterior being. And the most scary things that can erode like our being are typically not the things blatant things that are right in front of us. Like we know the things that will, that can destroy us. Right. Um, it's like, um, like just absolute lust. Um, it's like, uh, an, uh, dealt with pride. It can be addictions, you know, like that, like that, that stuff. Right. Um, but like, I think there's other stuff that can threaten our spiritual health. I'm reading a book by a guy named Arthur Brooks and, and, um, he's talking about contempt and, And I think about our society and it's like, gosh, we live in a world of contempt. And I think contempt is one of those things can absolutely destroy our spiritual health. Contempt looks at another person and it starts often from like, I dislike or I disagree or I'm frustrated with or we have different background. And then it goes to, I hate that person. That person brings no value into our world. That is contempt. Man, that'll destroy you. And contempt grows from a small place. Yeah. It's left unattended. And so what are these things? I think that a couple of these things can be categorized as disordered desires that That we have really good desires that God created us with. Food is a good desire. Working out is a good desire. To be known and to know others. These are really good desires. I was just having this conversation with my son this morning before he went to school. And we're just talking about idolatry. And he's kind of walking through some things right now. And I was just like, you know, son, what idolatry ultimately is, is taking any good thing and turning that good thing into an ultimate thing that displaces God. And it's like, well, what are the things that we need to be aware of that threaten our spiritual health? I think it's stuff that - And okay, here's another part, like I'm kind of thinking out loud with you, Shae. The other part about this is also we think often in purely like earthly physical kind of realities, and yet all the way throughout the scriptures from Genesis 3 to Genesis 6 to Genesis 11 to Jesus in the wilderness temptation. In fact, my new book, "The Unseen Battle," it all talks about spiritual warfare. And I think it's intimately connected to spiritual health. And in that you have a real enemy. who hates you, you know, who wants to see image bearers of God absolutely disconnected from the Lord. And I think one of the greatest tactics of the enemy is to present an exchange of dependence. Wow. To present an exchange of dependence. And what do I mean by that? So this is what can threaten our overall spiritual health, that the spiritually healthy person is a person who's aware of their need for Jesus. So there's dependence. on Christ. There's a dependence on the spirit of God. There's just dependence aimed in the right place. What the enemy will often try to do is present us with good things that will try to become ultimate things where our dependence dependence is no longer on the Lord, but we find our dependence in being known, right? In hanging out, like this is the conversations I'm having with all of my kids right now, hanging out with cool kids, being known as cool, like having the right things. And I think about even in my own life, you know, it's, it's desire to like love the Lord and to make a difference in the kingdom of God and then be deeply convicted that am I actually trying to make the kingdom of God great? Or am I trying to make Joel's kingdom great? Shae Hill: Wow. Dr. Joel Muddamalle: You know, and I think these are things that are in the interior castle, in the inside of our hearts that can really threaten us that we need to be aware of. And so another last thing, and this is kind of, I don't know that anybody would be expecting this, but I think a threat to our spiritual health are things like boredom. Shae Hill: Yes. Dr. Joel Muddamalle: Right? Like you get bored, don't know what to do, and you start snacking on food. And all of a sudden that snacking on food becomes a lot of – and then it's like, oh, I've actually attached my – dependence to food, right? The gym is another great one, like boredom. It's like, man, I need to like do something with my time or whatever. And you go to the gym or like a boredom actually becomes a conduit to filling up the time. Cause I don't think many people want to be bored. This is where the Netflix thing comes in. The whole idea of social media, you know, there was a time. Do you remember early, early on when you could actually get to the end of the scroll on Instagram and you hit it and it said, congratulations, you're all caught up. Shae Hill: Yeah. Dr. Joel Muddamalle: Now we're never caught up. You're never going to be caught up. And whoever is the algorithm geniuses over there, they figured it out real quick. They were like, first feature to go away, the all caught up feature. We never want you to be caught up ever again. We will fill every amount of your time. And so I actually think that things like boredom can become a place where, because we're not comfortable with, And we don't know what to fill it up with in appropriate healthy ways can become conduits to really be detrimental to our spiritual health. Shae Hill: Yeah, that's so good. I'm so glad that you brought up the enemy because I think as I think about, okay, what would Jesus want for us? Like spiritually, I obviously think about John 10:10, that we would have life and have it abundantly. But then it also talks about that the enemy has come to steal, steal, kill and destroy. And so I think even as you're taking inventory, as I'm taking inventory of my own life, of my spiritual health to really see, sit before God and honestly process where is the enemy trying to steal, kill and destroy? What are those areas that that is coming up in my life? And then also where you're talking about, you know, some of these other things like our, I think you said disorder desires or kind of trying to reach for those good things that can become ultimate things. I think there's a strong element to of self-awareness a little bit required here of just knowing like you're wiring because even in the example of boredom, each of us will be tempted to fill that boredom with different things depending on our personality or just season of life. As I was thinking about my own life, I wouldn't say this is like a 911 like red flag or when I think about my spiritual health, but I would say this is kind of that initial, like the check engine light just came on. It's time to like, go see a mechanic and like, see what's going on. Uh, and for me, it's going through the motions, uh, I think when I start to feel like I'm just going through the motions and maybe even I'm doing all of the like right Christian things, but my heart feels very disconnected from those things where I treat my like relationship with Jesus as like a box to check or something, a job to do rather than like an overflowing of my heart. And I feel myself start to go through the motions. That's when it's like, okay. I think there's a little bit of something off here. Another thing that I realized in myself too would just be like, if I have just a presence of like dread that I have in like a few areas of my life where like joy is just not really present. I feel like that's kind of another sign for me that something is off, but I'm really glad you brought up boredom because I think that that is like, something that is so true and I know that a lot of times like even in early um the start of an early new year like a lot of people like get off social media or they're like I'm gonna read my bible in a year um and so you like delete the apps or you do certain things and then you like have to make peace with this like idle time and it's difficult you know um So as maybe some of these things are coming up for us and we're realizing, okay, I think I have some areas that like I really need to tend to, how do we invite the Lord into that space? And how do we ask for his help rather than turning to scripts in our mind that are very shame filled? Like, I'm such a bad Christian or I'm such a failure or I'm letting God down or I'm always going to struggle with this. What are some ways that we can maybe even pray through that or talk to the Lord about not trying to like supersede spiritually and like, because it would be really tempting, right? In our humanity to be like, I'm going to do better. I just need to be stronger. I need to be more committed and more disciplined. But you've already told us, okay, we got to come back to it's the spirit that started this. So how do we not turn to shame? How do we not turn to trying to be a superhero and get ourselves out of this mess, but really start to talk to the Lord about where we're at spiritually and start to see progress? What does that look like? Dr. Joel Muddamalle: Well, I would say that the way that you tackle it, because what you're talking about really is our tendency to like use the phrase superhero, but this tendency to be self-sufficient. Shae Hill: Totally. Independent. Independent. Dr. Joel Muddamalle: We want to, and really I think what we're trying to do, Shay, is we're trying to prove something to ourselves and to other people. Maybe we're even trying to prove something to God, which is kind of a wild thing to think about. Shae Hill: Totally. Dr. Joel Muddamalle: What do we need to prove? I think I was thinking about that scene with Job and God finally, it's like, who knows, like 30, 40, I am forgetting exactly how many like chapters and God silent, you know, ain't saying a thing. This dude is going through it. He ain't saying, and when he finally says something, he's like, Hey man, you better like, you know, get dressed right. Cause you better be ready. Cause, cause now like I'm about to teach, you know? And it's like, here we like thinking like, It's almost like insanity. It's like, gosh, we can prove something to God? We can actually fix this on our own? And so I think that the answer to the self-sufficiency question is actually greater dependence on God. It's actually greater love. And so again, this is the Jim Crest thing. It's so simple, but far from being simplistic. It's like, what's the answer? It's like, love Jesus? What's the answer? Actually embrace your weaknesses. Yeah. What's the answer? Recognize you do not hold the world together. God does, you know? And I want to like take a step back and just consider this, that you used a word shame and I, you know, different people disagree. I want to always be honest. I think there are some theologians that might disagree with what, what I might say, but I think that the way that the English word shame has evolved, we have to deal with it as it is today, like how it's embodied and being used and, And the way that it's used today, I do not believe it is used in a way that is reflective of the kingdom of God. Right. So I would say that shame actually is a tactic and tool of the enemy. And yet God does use something to draw us back to himself. And the thing that he uses is this thing called guilt. And so what is the difference between shame and guilt? I would say that God created humanity innately with a almost response system built into the neural fabric of who we are, that when we do something wrong, we feel remorse for that thing. There is a sense of guilt. There is this awareness that arrives like, oh, man, I've done wrong. Again, a lot of examples with my kids, right? Just because I'm deep in the kids example and all this stuff is very new, like it just happened yesterday. brought Levi home from lacrosse practice and we're getting home. And he's like, my gloves just got here from my new e-bike that, you know, he got for Christmas. Like, Oh, cool. Gets there. And as soon as we get in, his other sibling comes over and is like, I'm sorry. Levi was like, why? He's like, I opened your package for you. And I opened the gloves. Oh, no. And Levi was so because, you know, it's like Christmas for him. He's like he can't. It's kind of a big deal, like getting Amazon packages and stuff. And I'm thinking about like, what is that thing that Liam had? The thing or, you know, what is the thing that my other son had? The thing that my other son had was guilt. He recognized when he did that thing that guilt. It was going to hurt his sibling. It was going to, you know? Yeah. So there was another option that he could have opted for, and that's isolation. That's shame. That's hiding away. That's, or it's self-defense. It's like, you know, it's gas. It's like, well, it's not that big of a deal, right? All of that kind of stuff. And so the Lord wants to use guilt in our life in order to draw us back to him. Because he wants us to be restored. He wants us to repent. He wants us to recognize these areas that maybe we've done an exchange of dependence, you know, and we need to go back to him. These are the areas that we've been self-dependent. Here are the areas that I need to return to, like my love and affection for King Jesus. And so that's one. Shame will lead you deeper into isolation. Hmm. Shame is like the perfect tactic of the enemy because often the outcome of shame is despair and loneliness and disconnection, both from God and his people and almost in an interpersonal way. shame leaves you almost disconnected from yourself, which is odd. Shame leaves you disconnected from the truest authentic self of who you are and who you're supposed to be. And rather, it reaffirms something that God has never said is true of you, nor should be true of you. And so I think that the way that we address this and the way that we process it is we process through a thing that I’ve often called at theology of remembrance it’s so simple but it’s like crucial that we remember the Jesus on the cross Beckons all of us to himself and I think often of that verse in Romans it’s like Romans 5:8 but God demonstrates his own love for us in this while we were still sinners not when we got stuff together not when we did all the right decisions not when we accomplished 60% of her Bible reading plan not you know it’s like no like while we were still sinners Christ died for us and so I would just suggest in a way it’s even less about inviting God into that space but it’s about returning to God who has never left our side it’s about Jesus who experienced the full weight of sin shame in death on a cross so that you and I would never have to like willingly intentionally live in the midst of that shame like we can exchange that for the goodness and the healing that comes from King Jesus. So anyways. Shae Hill: So good! Going back to sanctification, which you kinda mentioned earlier I feel like in my own life in the day-to-day it’s very hard sometimes to see the spirit at work to see tangible change that has taken place but then I think you look back maybe even you know from right now I think about how far you’ve come how far the Lord has brought you since you first got saved and you’re like wow like I am not where I was maybe I’m not where I wanna be but the spirit really is at work and so as you think about maybe changes you’re wanting to see in yourself cause I think that’s really like the essence of what why we set these goals like you even mentioned like the Bible reading plan is that we were wanting to see change we were wanting to experience changed like in ourselves in our lives or wanting more of something less of something we want more peace less stressed you know less anxiety more like fun enjoy in our life different things like that I do think as we’re saying that we’re not you know gonna be like spiritual superheroes and that we’re gonna aim for perfection and do all this by ourselves I do think there are some spiritual disciplines that are at play in this conversation because I do think there there’s some protection built-in into that and I think about different people in my life that are the most spiritually disciplined I often do you think that they are really spiritually healthy not because they’re a slave to their spiritual disciplines but I think they have really found what keeps them healthy and so I want to talk about that for a second like the spiritual disciplines that I think one that I wrote down is like community that we’re transparent with which I would guess the more like a biblical term for this would be confession so like confession at play I think Sabbath is a huge one that I feel like has also come back the spiritual discipline that our culture has kind of like unearth as like this like lost commandment and we’ve kind of like let go and so yeah what are some of those spiritual disciplines either in your life or maybe like mentors that you’ve seen like they have this like really locked in and it has helped to keep them spiritually healthy. Dr. Joel Muddamalle: Yeah honestly there’s something that I’ve tried to do that an ancient wise sage a friend of mine her name is Shae Tate Hill that was a surprise huh I think it was a while back you said something about your starting to do gratitude like journal thing right Shae Hill: I got this from Jess Connolly I have to give credit where credit is due. She got me on this Dr. Joel Muddamalle: we love you Jess, I started to do that and I’ve tried so hard to do these different journal things like monk journal and honestly it’s just like feel so overwhelming to me like I just can so like I have a very simple process now I have a little journal that I keep with me and there’s nothing pulled into it it’s just literally at the very top I put the date I put like what I did to work out I did like if I did my cold plunge for my sauna. And then I write Like the best part of the day the worst part of the day and like one thing I’m praying for they’re very bottom I just draw like a line a line and then at the very bottom just like the thing that I was grateful for this joy or happiness you know in that moment and so I think I think this probably came from you as well that concept of stacking gratitude like you know like you’re just like you seen your eyes are being trained to see other areas of gratefulness that you put that would not be able to see so that’s one of them the other thing is just daily Bible reading the best that you can I’ve changed this year to audio which has been really fun for me like I’ve never done this before Shae Hill: so we’re listening to the Bible Dr. Joel Muddamalle: I am listening to the whole Bible and I literally just put it on my Bible app and I just like you know the place I listen to is actually in the sauna like when I’m in the sun and in the cold punch I just listen to the Bible and I’m telling you there are things that are popping up out of the text that like spiritual health right like Abraham is consistently going to places in his life journey where it’s suffering and it’s grief but he leaves those places with like plenty with bounty basically and what happens is that this is not like prosperity this is just like a pattern the guy trying to teaches people is you think that you can save yourself and you get into that situation this is the whole thing with Sarah and in Egypt and you know which is wild Abram you gave your wife what is wrong with you and you’re afraid for your own knucklehead anyways that he did twice by the way so it’s like he says that as he leaves the pharaoh gives him like all this wealth on his way out you know and well this is telegraphing something it’s telegraphing the Egyptian Exodus because all the way like hundreds of years later when the Egyptian when the Israel are in Egypt and God tells Moses he’s gonna let his people out he also says by the way they’re not gonna be left they’re not gonna go out empty-handed if you are gonna hand them like all this wealth and you’re like wait a minute I’ve been prepared for this moment this isn’t the first time God has done this you know and so I think just like reading your Bible on a daily basis nearly like as a story that is unfolding is something that it’s just gonna encourage you in your spiritual health it’s like a pattern that it’s not that you are these people it’s that you’re recognizing that the eternal God who is the same yesterday today and tomorrow is still acting in similar ways on behalf of his people and so yeah I would say that’s the other one and then the last one is just you already said it I would say his community is have some people around you that they just don’t think too much of you they’re just kind of unimpressed with you right now I just love it like they just walk in like no matter how big the accomplishment is in your life they’re like cool awesome now why does your breath stink so bad or you know like who were the same thing for like six days bro like you gotta know are you OK everything OK I just think that those people are really important for our spiritual health because sometimes we do have Blindspot we cannot see ourselves so we’re dependent on other people that love Jesus more than they love us to speak truth into our lives Shae Hill: they’re committed to seeing they want the spirit to have the best fighting chance to make us the version of our self that the Lord always wants us to be and they care about that more than they care about like people pleasing in comfort and like saying the thing that we want to hear and I think that’s something that is such a gift to the older that I get is just realizing the friendship that I can be like the most honest about where I’m at those are usually the most flourishing friendships in my life like not the superficial ones but the ones that truly I can just be like this is where I’m at you know and it’s not buttoned up it’s not polish but like this is where I’m at and even like we had we have neighbors that we have like a annual Christmas dinner with and one of the things that we talked about with my husband and then the other this other couple and we’ve all been walking with Jesus for a long time was like every single one of us kind of expressed just like our words and where we were at with Bible reading like where we were kinda at we kinda all talked through like different things we’ve tried different things that we like plans we’ve stuck to what we were trying to do like in the new year and that was just such a refreshing conversation I think to just sit amongst like fellow believers and it didn’t turn into like all of us kind of like keeping on you know like negativity it was just like we’ve been walking with the Lord for a long time and like this is easy to like for sake like it is easy to like snooze that Alarm or like let the rhythm go but we were all able to share different things we have tried, different things that have helped us enjoy that’s Another thing I kind of love that I think it’s easier to forget is spiritual disciplines they are a disciplines but I also think it’s OK to set yourself up well and do things that you enjoy like right now like you’re enjoying listening to the Bible and audio you know that’s like helping you love that discipline because you actually like it so figuring out what those things are another thing I feel like I would really like to try to do this year would be like prayer walks like it’s so tempting for me to like go on a walk and like throwing my AirPods and just like listen to something it could even be worship, not a bad thing but I think trying to create more space for like quiet and actually intentionally trying to make prayer practice in my life I feel like movement could really help with that rather than just like sitting in my living room and being like I’m gonna try to pray now you know so that’s something I’m gonna try this year another great thing I think is just like boundaries on your phone with like social media making space for like quiet just so you have like more time for the Lord in your life right like I don’t want my time with God to look like just like my quiet time and then like it’s done you know Joel is we this has been so good thank you for your time as we wrap up today as people are listening and they’re thinking about where they’re at spiritually right now and where they wanna be by the end of 2026 what is just one last word of encouragement or negative wisdom for them to hold onto you as they aim to be the most spiritually healthy version of themselves this year Dr. Joel Muddamalle: Yeah as I was thinking about this I wrote this down, what I wrote in my journal was, You know spiritual health isn’t about being perfect it’s about being persistent in our desire independence on God our health is intricately tied to his presence and provision in our life and so I think I just want people to leave this conversation maybe reframing spiritual health less about a thing that has to be achieved in totality and perfection but something that is lived out in light of our great need for the Lord and he has given us his spirit to equip us to be able to live life that is healthy life that honors him honors ourselves and then honors other people Shae Hill: that’s so good I am so grateful for this conversation and I’m really excited that you’re kicking us off with this new series and I’m looking forward to the rest of these episodes And now, it's time for Listener Mail, where we respond to YOUR questions. Today’s Listener Mail is brought to you by Compassion International, which I’m excited to tell you more about. Compassion is fighting child poverty in powerful, practical ways. Through the work of local churches and the generosity of sponsors like you and me, Compassion is releasing children from poverty in Jesus’ name. We’ve seen the impact of sponsorship firsthand through education, medical care, healthy food, clean water, and the love and hope of the Gospel. And now we want to invite you to join us in sponsoring a child. When you sponsor, you’ll receive a copy of the Proverbs 31 Ministries study guide titled Keep Holding On as our thanks for investing in the life of a child. Go to Compassion.com/lysa to choose a child to sponsor today. OK friends let’s hear today’s question this listener asked what is the healthy conversation contract that you’ve mentioned before I’m gonna pass it off to our resident counselor of the podcast Jim Crest to answer Jim Cress: Well the healthy conversation contract is simply that a contract for relationships that I came up with and then Lysa and I added to it to get very specifically both biblically and practically every relationship you have with a pet with your kids with a spouse with a friend every relationship has a contract most of us just aren’t getting clear about the fact that we have a contract like this I will tolerate this is OK with me in a relationship this is not OK especially in the more intimate relationship such as a marriage more intimate relationship the more rules there need to be so we just outline a bunch of things model 15 different items in there that are based in research that are very practical and biblically based if you go to the show notes you’ll be able to have that the idea is especially in the marriage is to get that and begin to work through take the guts of what we’ve done all the points and then literally sit down and write out your own contract it’d be really cool you could have that in your mind with your kids or a good friend no one with a good friend while there are people say you know I’ve gotten really clear about this it’s not OK that you text me even though you’re a good friend it’s not OK if you text me at 2 AM part of that is we have to get really clear and if you want even in like the healthy conversations contract have good boundaries get the book good boundaries and goodbye but you’ve heard me say that a boundary without a consequence is in your suggestion so a lot of these are not preachy in the healthy conversations this contract I’m not trying to control you I’m saying here’s what I need to stay safe in this relationship and that contract and he tried him in the contract might change clarity and what happens in vague states in Vagueness in all of our relationships we want extreme healthy clarity.