Latest / Massive Agent Podcast / Facebook Ads Changed Again… Now What? w/ Grant Wise

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Facebook Ads Changed Again… Now What? w/ Grant Wise · Massive Agent Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: Well, Facebook has changed yet again.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_03: Now what?
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_03: What the hell are you supposed to do?
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_03: What do you need to know?
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_03: What should you do moving forward?
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_03: And is there a way to insulate yourself from all of Facebook's constant bullshit?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_03: Today we have Grant Wise, the founder and CEO of Whitley, on the show to explain everything you need to know.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: I like to buy houses.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: I like to sell houses.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_03: What is up, guys?
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to episode 212 of the Massive Agent Podcast.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_03: I am your host, Dustin Broome.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_03: I'm an agent out in Salt Lake City, Utah, and founder of the Massive Agent Society coaching program.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_03: We just relaunched with the new format that you've been hearing me talk about and the beta group.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_03: A bunch of you guys jumped into the beta group, which is super cool to be kind of beta testers for the new format.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_03: We did our first call under the new format uh a day or so ago.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely awesome.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely awesome.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_03: So appreciate all you all of you Massive Agent Society members.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_03: The registration is closed.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_03: We'll be opening up again in the next month or two.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_03: So stay tuned for that.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_03: But right now it's closed.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_03: Um, we're only going to be opening at select times in the year, so be ready for that.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and if you want more information, you can go to MassiveAgen Society.com slash beta for the most updated information on what we're doing, and we'll be rolling out the new website over the next month.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so today, guys, we're gonna be talking about Facebook advertising, which is a huge thorn in the side of every goddamn agent that I know, including myself.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_03: It's it changes so much.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_03: If if they don't change the process, they change where things are located, they'll move something from the upper left to the bottom right, and you think, uh, why is this different from the last time I set up ads?
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_03: And how how are you supposed to stay on top of it?
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_03: How are you supposed to stay on top of rule changes where you don't even know that the rule changed and all of a sudden you violated something and you don't know what you violated, and then they don't tell you what you violated.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_03: So this is the world of Facebook advertising.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_03: Now, it doesn't mean you should write it off completely.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly the opposite.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_03: You need to be doing Facebook advertising, you just need to know some things.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_03: So today we're gonna have Grant Wise, a friend of the show, back on.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_03: He's the founder and CEO of Whitley, and he's he knows exactly like he's he's running this stuff at a very, very high level.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_03: He knows all of the back end stuff with Facebook, he's he's in on all the latest updates, and then there's a solution that's really the easy button for Facebook, all right?
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_03: And he's gonna explain why a lot of this crap that we're gonna be discussing you should know about, but at the same time, you don't really need to know about, if that makes any sense at all.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_03: Now, don't turn off the podcast because you're like, well, if I don't need to know, I don't need to know.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_03: You do need to know what you don't need to know.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_03: You'll see what we mean.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_03: That makes no sense, but it makes all the sense in the world.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_03: You're not gonna need to know, but right now you need to know why you don't need to know it.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_03: There we go.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_03: That's hopefully better.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_03: Anyways, all right, before we get into it, I want to give a shout out to our sponsor and partner, follow up boss.
• 3:22
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• 3:30
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• 3:37
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• 3:40
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• 3:42
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• 3:46
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• 3:47
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• 3:48
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• 3:59
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• 4:00
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• 4:08
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• 4:16
  SPEAKER_03: Follow up boss is a great partner.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you very much.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_03: Let's get into it with Grant Wise, CEO and founder of Whitley, talking about Facebook ads changing, and well, they actually haven't changed.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_03: They're still a pain in the ass.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_03: So in that regard, they're the same that they've always been.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_03: Let's jump into it with Grant.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_03: What is up, guys?
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_03: I'm here with Grant Wise, the founder and CEO of Whitly, back for I think the third time on the show.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_03: So uh I mean you're one of our you're one of our longtime, longstanding guests.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_03: So welcome back, man.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_03: We have some cool shit to talk about.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we do, man.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me back again.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh it's an honor and a privilege.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks, buddy.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_03: So I wanted to have you back because uh we did a webinar together back in early December, and it was titled the the easy button for Facebook Ads.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_03: And um, you know, you have a platform that really is as simple as pushing a button, and ads are created and managed, and and that's super cool.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_03: But there's so much more that I wanted to unpack, and not everyone listening was able to attend that webinar, so I wanted to do a little follow-up, but also dive deeper than we were able to there, because you know, Facebook ads is constantly changing.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_03: The the the ads platform's constantly changing, and you know better than anybody what those changes look like and the headaches that come from them.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_03: So um for anyone who who's not really paying attention and and just runs some ads every once in a while casually, which I think is most agents, um, you know what's changed lately?
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_03: You know, what what do they need to know?
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_03: What what's what's going on within the Facebook ads world?
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: For that user, everything, right?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the constant problem.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like since we started doing this in 2013, what we found was so fascinating is that there was this okay, I'm gonna learn the platform, put everything in place, two, three, four, five months goes by, and I and people almost set it and forget it, right?
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: Walk away from it, and then when they come back to make changes or improvements or modifications, it's like crap, like none of this is the same.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_03: It's all different.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: Now I get now.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: I gotta go back into Grant's course and I gotta redo all this stuff all over again and uh you know learn how to use the platform again.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: And we would field so many questions.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, what's this now?
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: What's that now?
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: What's this now?
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: And we we got really sick of saying, just look at the training, just watch the training, just because people didn't want to do that.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: They were busy, they had other stuff going on.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think for that user specifically, you know, foundationally or structurally, you know, the process is somewhat similar, but you know, you log into Facebook today and the UI has changed, or the experiences have been adjusted, or they move this button over here, which sometimes singular changes like that totally throw people that learned how to do something one way, log back in, and now it's changed, you don't know what to do again.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, if you're somebody that logged into the platform two, three, four months ago, um, you you aren't going to experience radical um user interface changes.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's pretty much the same.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: You'll you're you'll experience minor UX experiences, meaning you have to make maybe the buttons moved or uh some part of the experience has evolved in a way, and then there's these ever like ever-flowing policy changes that just keep getting rolled out, keep getting rolled out, and keep getting rolled out.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's like this non-stop waterfall of stuff that you've got to know.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: And if you don't, add account banned.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: For no other reason than than not knowing uh that you like needed to have two-factor authentication in place.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like, okay, well, how how am I supposed to know that if I haven't logged into Facebook in two or three months?
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: I log into running ad city tomorrow.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: No, things don't get rolled out.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's people like myself and other great, you know, Facebook ad influencers that are that are out there communicating this information to people.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm gonna be honest, Dustin, like ever since we rolled out Whitley, I stopped logging into Facebook ads manager myself.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'm like, why would I, you know, why would I even personally go put myself through the process of building a Facebook ad the traditional way when I have an access, I have access to a platform that'll just do all the work for me.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't even make any sense.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: So um, if you logged in today compared to two, three months ago, not only are have you forgotten what you learned two to three months ago, but things have changed, policies have changed, and today it's different than it was three, four, five, six years ago.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: Because today, if you log in and you make a mistake, you're getting axed.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're done.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like they're just gonna turn your account off and they're not gonna let you advertise.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: Gary Bandertchuk said this, man, I think it was like five or six years ago.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I it's it's totally come true, like most things he says.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: But he says, you guys don't understand.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: He said this years ago.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: He said, You don't understand.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: These Inc.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: 500 companies that have these billion-dollar ad budgets, they haven't spent a penny on Facebook yet.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: And when they do, you don't want to be on the other side of it.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we're living today the reality that now there's these billion-dollar ad budgets that have come to Facebook, and Facebook is not as reliant on the small business owner as they once were.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: Therefore, their policies uh can can really fluctuate based on what their needs are, and they just don't need that, need as many of the they're not focused on the people spending two to three hundred, four hundred dollars a month, or even two, three, four, five thousand dollars a month.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: They're focused on the people that are spending two, three, four, five million dollars a month, and now they have a lot of those opportunities.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_03: That makes sense.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_03: And it is so frustrating when you have no idea why, but they go, they don't just like deny your ad.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_03: All of a sudden they're like, no, your account has been banned.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_03: Your account is turned off.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_03: Like what that happened to me back in, I want to say, in the summer sometime on the Massive Agent account.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I was running some ads and they had been running for literally weeks, and all of a sudden, your your account's denied.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I had to go through this process that took me about two weeks of uh, you know, first off, knowing how to reach their customer support, which is a pain in the ass to begin with, but then having them look into it and and realize, oh, we made a mistake.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_03: Now you have to go talk to this department, and they need to switch it back on, and then they need to let us know.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_03: And and it's it's crazy, and it's not an uncommon problem.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but it is, from my understanding, it is an uncommon problem for those using your platform.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_03: Why is that?
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that's a really good question.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, one of the things that we were really proud of is we had basically, it's like Lysol, like 99% kills 99% of germs or whatever.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: We killed 99% of ad decline.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason is because we were able to pre-program advertisements to be ran the way Facebook likes them to be.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: Everything was set up right from the beginning.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: The targeting was right, special housing category was right.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we make sure that our ad, because we get notices like if an ad is going to decline.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: Excuse me.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, that's curtain.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: My podcast has happened.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um we get notices from Facebook.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: We get API calls, right?
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: When we're making calls to build ads and stuff like that in the back end, we get notices that say this ad is not approved for this reason.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: So we actually can prevent ad decline because we can communicate why an ad won't get pushed through in the first place.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: So uh, you know, the the first thing that saves people from ad decline is that everything that Whitley is setting up from a Facebook advertising standpoint, it's set up the way Facebook wants it to be set up.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: So they're not going to decline ads that are following their policies.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: And the second thing is if we do notice, like as an example, sometimes people will try to throw in targeting terms that won't be allowed, the software will actually give us a signal and say, hey, uh, this is uh against Facebook's advertising policies, you need to remove uh XYZ term from your targeting audience.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: So we can actually, which Facebook doesn't do this, we can we communicate to the user what policy you may be violating or what Facebook doesn't like, and we don't even allow you to push the ad through to begin with.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: Facebook, if you go to submit an ad, you will you just submit the ad and you wait two to three hours and then you get a notice that says, hey, your ad's been declined, and then you're in the middle of a contract negotiation or a showing or something, and you don't have the ability to go back and fix it, and then two, three, four, five days goes by, you file a dispute, it's just it's madness.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so I would say that you don't know what to fix because and and that's man, that's so true because you do not you're not super familiar with the platform.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: They don't really tell you, they give you some generic response, and therefore you don't know what to go in and fix.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like we see sometimes people's ads, the only reason we see people's ads get declined today is typically because the ads, there's a couple things.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes people run ads, like if they do a community highlight video, they'll go interview a brewery.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's a huge mistake because Facebook will not allow any alcohol in any ads at all, and so they'll decline the ads.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, that's an example.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: Another thing that we see is they mistake the ads for being uh politically affiliated.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: And most of them aren't at all, so you just have to go in and click the review button.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: But that's another thing that we see.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: And usually after review, uh the ads are fixed.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: But typically you get a very uh generic response from Facebook that says you violated these, you know, one of five various generic policies in you know, here go go go find the needle in the haystack in your ad and and try to change it.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then resubmit it, and then we'll let you know if we approve it.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: And then if we don't approve it, you're at risk of your ad account being shut down for too many ad declines.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh it's a pretty vicious thing.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_03: It is, and you know, whenever I post a new ad, I just if I'm before I was using the Whitley platform, I just I'm like, all right, it's gonna get denied.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_03: So like if I want this to run on Tuesday, I better submit it like a week prior, give myself a chance to wait for it to get rejected because uh well it's a real estate podcast, so it must be offering real estate or housing.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_03: It's not um so then I hit review and then it's usually good.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_03: So you gotta factor that in.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_03: And it's just it's dumb.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_03: People think that there's a human being who's vindictive that's sitting behind the scenes to reject.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_03: Uh how does how does the rejection process work?
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_03: Can you briefly explain like why this is even happening?
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: One of the things that allows Facebook to scale is algorithms, right?
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: That allows them to do a lot of work.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: So they're programming AI, they're programming algorithms to do the work that humans could do.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of times when you submit an ad, an algorithm is combing through your advertisement to find discrepancies versus against their policies.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: So let's say you know there's a beer in the background of your your video.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the the AI, the algorithm, whatever the whatever it is that's working is is going to see that through through image recognition, and it's going to say, well, this ad's about beer, or this ad shows beer, we're not going to allow this ad to run through.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: And so the the bot will decline the ad.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: And then when you go and you request a review, a human being steps in and says, okay, this ad actually was not a violation of our policy.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: We're going to go ahead and we're going to reverse this.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: So algorithms, uh, AI, bots, like that's what's making the initial decision.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then if you go request a review, a human being is verifying that it is it either was or it was not a violation of the policies.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_03: That makes sense.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_03: It's a knee-jerk reaction from the algorithm, and then usually you review it.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um, what are some of the biggest mistakes that you see agents making with their ads that are causing declines?
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and would you explain special ad category for anyone who maybe isn't up to speed on that yet?
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: So three or four years ago, HUD, uh, the Department of Uh, what is it, Housing and Urban Development, sued Facebook and said, essentially said in their lawsuit, uh, real estate agents can unintentionally discriminate against the consumer based on how good your ad targeting is.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: Which is like, what?
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um and they used a theory called redlining, which is an old theory from back in the day where essentially an agent could discriminate.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh let's say one side of the street is affluent, the other side of the street's poor, uh, you draw a red line down the street and you only work with one side.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you're you're you're discriminating against the other side of the street, which is a violation of fair housing and it's a violation of all the policies that you agree to and you come real estate.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: So HUD said using redlining, essentially the redline theory, your agents, the agents that are using your software talking about your advertising technology are discriminating, maybe even unintentionally, against people, um, and you you can't do that.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: Now, why hasn't Zillow been sued?
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, why hasn't uh you know the postcard companies been sued?
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because there's a lot of uh what what HUD would describe as unintentional discrimination or even maybe even intentional discrimination because you're zeroing in on specific parts of town.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: Now that's a different argument, and it's not one that obviously I support.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's very stupid.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: But Facebook has much more at stake uh here than just collecting real estate revenues, right?
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so Facebook said, okay, we will completely remove somebody's ability to discriminate even unintentionally in our ads.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll get rid of the zip code radius um down to a mile, we'll make them do 15 miles, we'll get rid of the gender selection, we'll get rid of the religion selection, the language selection, we'll get we'll eliminate a lot of 50 to 60% of their ad targeting terms were deprecated, um, meaning that they were removed.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: And they they basically cleaned house on all of the things that you could utilize to discriminate, whether intentionally or unintentionally, uh, because their ad targeting was so good.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: We got this change, you got to notice that this changed like nine months before it happened.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: So we immediately grabbed all of the terms that we we believe that they were removing and we started testing ads with new audiences.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: Now you don't know because Facebook isn't just telling everybody, right?
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: They're just saying they're making a change.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: So we started testing new audiences and making improvements based on the information that was provided, and we were good.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like, okay, we figured it out.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: Now the housing category was new.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: So when they rolled out the change a few years ago, they created what they call a special ad category.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: There's uh categories for politics, there's categories for credit, there's categories for housing, and there's other categories that have been developed since.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: But if you run an ad for real estate, you have to select the housing category within the special ad, uh, you have to select housing within the special ad category that lets Facebook know that you are a real estate agent that is potentially trying to market to somebody to buy or sell a property.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what the special ad category is designed to do.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's designed to prevent somebody from intentionally or unintentionally discriminating against users inside of the platform that they may want to market to or may not want to market to because it's a violation of fair housing.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, that's what special ad the special housing category is, the special ad category specific to housing.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I don't even remember the original question, but one of the reasons that uh Whitley prevents ad decline in most cases is because every ad has to be selected uh through the special housing category.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: So we don't even let an agent put an ad out there.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like you can't even uncheck it in our system, like it's forced.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: We make sure that the special housing category is selected and we don't let anybody uncheck it.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: I do not sell houses, I'm a marketer.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like my job is marketing and advertising and branding, and like I'm you know, I I work for real estate agents, but I don't sell properties.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: Even I have to check the special special housing category.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: Facebook basically entered um uh Facebook basically put this like blanket over the entire industry and said, we don't care.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: We don't care.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: As long as it's real estate related, you have to be in the special housing category.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: So even though I don't sell houses, if I advertise to real estate agents, I have to select the special housing category.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: Now there's ways around it, but at the end of the day, right now, in this climate, the risk isn't worth the reward because if you get too many ad declines, Facebook will just shut your ad account down.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to factor do I want to lose the revenue source, go find a new one, or do I just want to play by the rules?
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: And at the end of the day, if you understand marketing, if you understand advertising, if you understand the principles that guide uh those sectors of industry, like you you're you're gonna be just fine.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you can be an effective copywriter, if you know how to message something, if you create good video content, like you're gonna be just fine.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: And you don't have to worry so much about some of those policies and those nuances of trying to get around them, but at the end of the day, they're very annoying.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so like I agree with everybody, like I wish they weren't there too.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: But at the end of the day, like that's what our software does, is it prevents the problem from even occurring because the software is building the ads that Facebook wants the way that Facebook wants them to be built.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_03: Uh in in just a set, I have one more question before I before I want to dive into the platform that you've built, why it works, how it works, that what it takes off the agent's plate, what you just don't need to worry about anymore.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_03: Because I think it's it's just such a great tool, and that's why I've had you on a couple times to talk about it.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's just it's one of those few tools available to agents that makes your life so much frickin' easier.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um but for anyone who is managing their own ads, they're still setting them up.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_03: What are some of the things that they're including in their ads that are causing ad rejection?
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_03: Like you it my understanding is you can't even like you can't put a phone number, email address, contact info.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um I I think before you couldn't say you too much.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, what are some of those things?
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's a lot of policies that exist, some that are real, some that are not.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I think you know, one time we had an agent come to us and they're like they're like, I just don't know why I'm not getting very good ad results.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: And we're like, okay, well, are you doing?
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, well, every morning I turn my ad on at like eight o'clock and then I turn it off at one because I heard that's the best time to run ads.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, What?
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: What are you talking about?
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: Why you why are you turning your ads off every day?
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: And like, well, that's just what one of these marketers told me that I needed to do.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, you hear some policies that are real and some that are just Flat, false, like there's some stuff like that.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: So if if anybody ever tells you that you listen to this podcast, don't ever call them back.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like, just ignore that advice.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: But there's all types of policies, Dustin.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean I probably spent an hour or two talking about the things that you should include, the things that you shouldn't include.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think what is more important here is understanding strategy, which is what very few people understand.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: So when we look at the strategy, what's the strategy behind running Facebook ads?
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: What is our goal?
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: Most people are just giving Facebook the boost button and dropping 50 bucks and being like, well, Facebook ads don't work.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's because there's no strategy behind that.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: They're just literally boosting an ad to a generic audience expecting that you're going to get results with no call to action.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's very interesting things that are happening from that standpoint.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: I would say what's very important, if you want to run your ads on your own, really align yourselves to Facebook's policies.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: As an example, if you send somebody to a landing page, most real estate agents' websites don't even have a privacy policy, which is a huge violation of Facebook's terms of service based on uh the EU standards that were set years ago because of uh the Cambridge Analympics scandal, right?
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody uh had to roll out these new um cookie policies where you had to let people know that you were cooking them and that you had to have privacy policies in terms of service.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: Go look at your website if you're a real estate agent right now.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: This is the number one mistake I see, and I see almost every day because everybody's using templated websites provided by companies that don't give them these things.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have a terms of service.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: Therefore, if you're running ads to a landing page or a website that doesn't have it, you're in violation of Facebook's uh Facebook policies and your ad account's gonna get shut down.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's one thing.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: Facebook no longer allows you to collect addresses.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so they uh we noticed this back in March.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we used to run lead ads to to generate seller leads.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: And then you would collect the address on the lead form, and then you would be able to send out CMAs.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: Well, then Facebook came out and said, Well, this is a violation of people's privacy, we don't want you collecting their address.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so we said, Well, let's just send them to a landing page and we'll collect their address on the landing page.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, Facebook's Facebook's bots started working and said, Well, these people are collecting an address on the page one of the landing page.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: We can't let them do that.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: And and then and then they started turning off ad accounts that were trying to collect addresses on the first page of the landing page.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then marketers obviously said, Well, we'll just put the address on page two.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what everybody's doing today is they're collecting a name, email, phone number first, and then they're sending them to the second page where they're collecting an address.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I I don't believe we're we're too far from seeing Facebook drop the hammer and saying, no, you can't collect their address ever, so don't put it on page two.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: What we do is we generate, uh, we we generate seller leads by running lead ads, collect their name, email, phone number, and then we reach out to them privately through a text interaction and get them to confirm their address, which is not a violation of Facebook's policies because we're going direct to the person, they're giving us their address directly.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a violation of any standards that they've set.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: You're playing with fire when you do stuff that Facebook doesn't want you to do.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: They've come out with a new policy violation term, uh, circumventing systems.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: This is a funny one.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: And it means that if you do something that Facebook doesn't want you to do, and Facebook finds out about it, they're going to turn your account off for circumventing the system.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then they're not going to turn it back on.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: You only get like one hammer, two hammers max, and then they're like, nope, you can never run ads again.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so like there's little bitty nuances.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: Those are little things, they're not even big things.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: Those are kind of like insignificant details to you know generating leads.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: Certainly, if I was a real estate agent, I'd never ran ads before, and I wanted to go to Facebook, get some seller leads, well, I'm gonna throw the address in there.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna throw the I'm gonna throw the zip code in there.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: Facebook's gonna decline the ads because you're violating their terms.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: If you do it too many times, they're gonna shut your ad account down, you won't be able to be able to generate leads at all.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I would say it's if you want to run ads on your own, familiarize yourself with Facebook's policies.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's very important because if you don't, you're gonna unintentionally get your your account turned off, and then you're not even gonna be able to use the source to begin with.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: And people might say, well, you know what?
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even like Facebook.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's fine.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's a that's an okay mindset to have, but I want to hit you with some perspective.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: Your business doesn't give a crap about Facebook, it only gives a crap about revenues and cash flow and in those types of things.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: Facebook is an unbelievable profit center for most businesses because the lead source is so inexpensive.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then you put in stuff like remarketing, which increases conversion.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: We're seeing right now in some markets, our average clients closing a deal every$300 to$600 they spend in ads.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's a significant, significant return on investment when you factor that the average commission check in the real estate industry nationwide is$6,750.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: So you might say, well, granted, I only like Facebook anyway.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's fine, but your business does, like, because your business needs attention, your business needs leads, it needs money to survive, and I would imagine that you and your family do as well.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you know, familiarize yourself with the policies because you're you're you're leaving thousands of dollars a month on the table by not doing so.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I know I only hit on like two or three, but those are the two or three big ones I see right now that are affecting most people.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: No terms of service, no privacy policy, trying to collect addresses when Facebook doesn't want you to do that.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: I've not seen a lot of like the the policy like you've talked about, like mentioning the word you a lot, uh, or you know, Google's big on the word free, like don't put free in emails, or we're gonna, we're gonna throw you to spam.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um I haven't seen a lot of those types of violations.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um the big ones that I've seen are some of the ones that we recently mentioned.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then, of course, people just unintentionally not selecting the special housing category whenever they're running ads.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but those are some of the top things I'm seeing today that are leading to ad decline and then ultimately ad account bans.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then this is simple, Dustin.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: People don't have two-factor authentication.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: People have a business manager.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: If you go to business.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: People don't have two-factor authentication turned on on their business manager, and they're just turning their ad accounts off because they want two-factor authentication in place.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, people haven't verified their uh their domain name for their website.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: Facebook turns the ad account off because they want your domain verified.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, there's there's a lot of those little types of nuances that have come out in the last few months as well that like universally Facebook flipped a switch and just boom, if you don't have two-factor authentication on, ad account turned off, done.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then you go, you go put it back on and then everything's fine.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then you go verify your domain and everything's fine.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: Usually, um, right now at least, there's a high success rate of getting ad accounts turned back on by making some of those little just micro changes.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: Now, if you do this too many times, they're just not gonna let you advertise.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_03: Now, this is this is all shit that agents need to know about on top of being an agent.
• 29:03
  unknown: Right?
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_03: On top of leading with clients.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: And that goes back to strategy.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: That's just rules you gotta know to play the game.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like at the end of the day, if you don't have an effective strategy, like there's lead generation mistakes I see every single day because people don't know what they're doing to generate leads, people don't understand the laws of lead generation.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: There's uh video marketing mistakes I see every single day because people just don't understand the the rules of video marketing, branding, messaging.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: People always, and this is still to this day, the funniest argument I ever hear, somebody says, Grant, you can't help me sell houses because you're not a marketer.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: And if this is your thought process, and I'm sorry, I may I may upset your audience here, Dustin, but if this is your process, it is one of the most moronic things I've ever heard in my entire life.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like categorically, the dumbest thing somebody ever says to me, because I don't know a single doctor that goes and hires another doctor to help them get more patients.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know a single attorney that goes and hires another attorney to get them more clients.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: You being a real estate agent does not qualify you to be a great marketer.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's proven by this industry's turnover rate.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: My expertise is a marketing and advertising.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: People hire me.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm the Dustin, not a lot of people know this.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm the fractional chief marketing officer for 25 different real estate companies internationally.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: People hire me because they don't know how to get customers.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's my focus and expertise.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: This is like, this is what you're leading to your point.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: You have to know all of this stuff as well as know how to be a really great real estate agent.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I know that they didn't teach you all this stuff in school when you were getting your license.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but in order to be a very successful real estate agent, you have to be a good marketer.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: And you have to be a great salesperson.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: And those are skills that people typically ultimately end up developing.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: Our mission here is that we help you look like a professional marketer without actually having to become one.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: Because at the end of the day, we know you just want to go out and sell houses.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I didn't mean to go on a like a rip or a tangent there, but I hear that stupid ass argument all the time, and it doesn't make any sense to me because that's not what professionals do.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: Professionals go hire other professionals to help them execute at the highest levels.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_03: Correct.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's not like you're trying to teach agents listing presentations.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: No, and I've never never even one time done that.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly, because that that's not that's the expertise.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_03: I could understand that um, you know, that criticism, if that was the case, if you're like, here's how you become a great real estate agent, like that's not, but that's not what you're doing.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_03: You're like, let's get a bunch of clients for you to work with.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm here to teach you how to get customers.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_01: I was on a phone with somebody, brand new in the business, like six months, great conversation.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then at the very end of it, he says, So how long have you been selling houses?
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I'm a marketer, man.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: I've I've been in the business now for I think at the time it was like six or seven years.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's like I've I've been in the business for for quite a while.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I don't I don't sell houses.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: I I focus on helping people, and he's like, Oh, I can't hire you to run my marketing because you're not an agent.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, Well, I'm sure that the agents want to be agents.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think that they want to be marketers.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that doesn't make any sense to me.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought it was so funny because at the time I had helped sell like two plus billion dollars of real estate.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, right, I've probably sold more help sell more real estate than you'll ever sell in your life.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: But if you don't think I can help you, that's fine.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_03: People are funny, man.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm glad that you gave that perspective that that is important.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_03: And it and it's not just about you and Whitley and what you're offering, it's any other help you need in your business.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_03: Like um, I just hired a a bookkeeper, someone to to manage my QuickBooks and and you know, run some reports and shit like that.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_03: I don't care if they're an agent.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_03: I don't want them to be an agent because then they're not good with agentship.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: I want them to be a damn good accountant, is what I want them to be.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: I want my attorney to be the best attorney, and I want my doctor to be the best doctor.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's without question.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_03: That's it.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_03: That's it.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_03: So that that that was a that was a good rant there, Grant.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_03: It's a grant rant.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_03: Hashtag um Yes.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_03: So you've built this platform that I mean, we just talked about all the shit, right?
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_03: All this all this crap that agents need to know if you're gonna be doing it yourself.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_03: What I love about you and your platform is I mean, you used to only educate agents.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_03: Like you you're a coach, you have courses and everything, and I know you still do, but you realized uh there's a better way.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_03: Like why?
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_03: Why do why do you need to do all this shit yourself when you're an agent?
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_03: You like you need to be meeting with clients and doing income producing activities.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_03: And and so I know a few years ago you started building this Whitley platform, and to see what it's become today, and uh some of the agents on my team use it, I've used it.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's it really is the easy button for Facebook ads.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_03: But you're telling me some stuff before we started recording that I want to get back to.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_03: That easy button just became easier.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_03: So you know what is Whitley and then what is it about to become that current users and users that hopefully become uh listeners who hopefully become users after this podcast, what do they need to know?
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_03: Because it it's just becoming such a no-brainer that you'd have to be dumb to say no to.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so let's see, it was 2013-14.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: We started a training company, we started teaching agents how to implement Facebook ads into their business.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: And it was around 2017 that I started asking myself this question how can I just do this for people?
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: There's gotta be an easier way because the average age of our client was like 56.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: The technology was going way over their head, and that's not to be like harsh, right?
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's just real estate isn't like categorically a youth-driven industry.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's usually older people that and I'm probably gonna get some flack there, but it's usually like the middle-aged people that are coming from a jobs background into the real estate space, and they're not super tech savvy.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: Most agents are, you know, we're coming more mainstream with technology adoption because we have to, right?
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's what the that's at the end of the day, what the client today is demanding with millennials driving market share.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: But I started asking myself, like, man, it's gotta be a way, like, we could just do this for people.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I didn't want to build a marketing agency.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: Marketing agencies are extremely what I call heavy business models.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: And to give you insight into what I'm saying and what I mean is we started a marketing agency and we did it very strategically for a very specific purpose.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: But we started a marketing agency, we would have to staff 22 people.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry, one uh two people per 22 clients that we brought onto our business.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: So to give you perspective, if I wanted to generate 100 customers or 200 customers or 300 customers, I was gonna have to have a really big staff.
• 35:54
  unknown: Right.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't want that.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I wanted to build an extremely efficient business.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_01: So uh building a SaaS business, a software as a service business, quickly became our path towards efficiency.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so we started building the software in 2017.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: We released it as a finished product in 2020.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: I say finished product, it's a joke, but uh it's never finished.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: We released our ad management platform in 2020.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: And to this day, our uh user-based growth is up 980%.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: And here's what's fascinating about this is we used to have to hire two people per 22 clients we took on.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: Now we only need to staff four people per thousand users because the software is doing all of the work.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what's really powerful.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: Now you ask, how is it changing?
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: What we've done over the last 12 to 15 months is a lot of data collection.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: We've documented every conversation, we've documented every question, we've documented every use case, we've documented all the stuff that we've been doing.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what SaaS is, right?
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's software doing the work so you don't have to.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: And we have really radically changed the way, this is what I challenge my team to do, is change the way you think about Whitley.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: Today, or you know, previously, you would go into Whitley and you would tell Whitley what to do.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: You would click the add button, you would click the add copy button, you'd click the video button.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: You're you're the one that's driving.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: And the task I gave to my team is think about Whitley almost like its own autonomous being, like something you're telling that's that's telling us what to do instead of uh us telling it what to do.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: And that really changed the way that our team started developing the software.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: So we started taking all the data that we've collected and putting it into a platform that now just does the work for people legitimately.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: Where you know, previously we were able to take the 40 steps you'd normally take to build an ad and condense it down into four to six steps, but you still had to tell the software what to do.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_01: Now we're pivoting the software in such a way where it tells you what to do.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: What we're for perspective, like if you go create a Willie account uh in a matter of the next few days, next couple weeks, um typically the the software would just let you into the platform and you would have to start clicking around.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: And we've changed it in such a way now where you have to ask, you have to answer a few questions.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: And based on the questions you answer, it tells you what strategically to do.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_01: It tells you maybe to run a listing ad, or it tells you to put a video remarketing campaign in place, or it tells you how to build out the whole system so that you got leads and remarketing and follow-up.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: And the system itself, Whitley itself, is recommending strategy to the user.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then once they click the accept button, this is really cool, an action plan appears and it guides you through the steps that you got to take to build the ad.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then we're we're continuing to take this process to the degree where once you go to action plan step one, you click it open, boom, Whitley says do this.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then you go to action step two, Whitley says do this.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: Action plan three, step uh step three, do this.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_01: And ultimately creating a platform that's a lot less self-service and a lot more of the software performing the service and you just agreeing to the actions it's taking.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost like you we're building you guys an artificially intelligent marketing assistant.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_03: Incredible.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's just doing what it is that you're supposed to do, so you don't have to.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: And uh it's a major innovation in the way that we you know have obviously developed the platform, and it's a major innovation, I think, in thinking.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like I've always wanted to build an unbelievably efficient business, and I think that makes us, as I as we've been written about in Forbes and other places, one of the most efficient uh marketing agencies in existence because our software is doing a lot of the work, and then we've got incredible human beings behind the business that are saying, yes, this was right, this was right, this is right, this is right, that are driving the ship forward.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_01: So we still give uh you access to a marketing coach, we still give you access to support staff, uh, but ultimately the the software is doing most of the work, and then we're we're we're rolling out what we call hands-free accounts, dust and aware.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't even want to touch it, that's fine.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_01: You just you just click activate the action plan, and then a member of our team just jumps in and does everything for you.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so there's there's going to be the the pro account options, and then there's the like literal hands-free options.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: You just go in if you let's say you get a listing that's going live and you need to run an ad, you go click the listing ad action plan, boom, software takes care of it, team does all the work.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you don't have to even do anything.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: So we're we've got some great ways we're innovating the platform to be far less hands-on, far more hands-off.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_03: That's so big, man.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, even today, uh at the time we're recording this, it does so much where like you just need to know what kind of ads you want to run, and then the platform just handles it, right?
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_03: And avoids the ad decline and just does it.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_03: So boom, easy button.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_03: That in and of itself is frickin' amazing.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_03: But then you're gonna take it a step further where agents can can sign up, not have any idea what ads to run or anything.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_03: They just need to know the results they want.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_03: Is that accurate?
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's exactly right.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_01: And and and and even Dustin, if you don't know the result you want.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: Because we get people all the time that are like, people are like, I don't, I don't know what to do, my business isn't growing, I don't have any leads, I uh this and that thing.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what they don't realize is they just spoke to us strategically.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: They just told us what they need.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_01: They need opportunity, they need leads.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_01: So when I talk about data collection, what we've done is we've collected, we've we've asked a very specific uh set of questions, hundreds, thousands of times, same questions.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_01: And it allowed us to create a formula for understanding what the agent needs strategically.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: So if somebody comes to us and they answer some questions, well, the software now can tell you what you need.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_01: It says, you need leads first.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, let's let's build out the lead ads.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: Or or an agent comes to us and says, I'm getting a lot of leads, but I'm not converting a lot of the leads.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_01: I don't understand what's happening.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, we well, we know that you likely need remarketing.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_01: Click the remarketing button, boom, an action plan appears.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: So the software, even if you don't know what you need, that you come and ask, you come and answer a few of the questions that we've strategically put in place.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_01: We can now make proposals for what you should put in place, uh, but we only are able to do that because we've asked the question a thousand times.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like we we can only do that because now we've we've we've asked the same question to the to the same subgroup of people over and over and over and over again, and have really grown to understand that there are basically three, four strategies that agents need.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_01: Now it's just figuring out almost it's logic, it's not an algorithm, it's it's logic, it's not AI, but uh logically we figured out if this, then do that, if this, then do that.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so now the software, based on the way you answer the questions, will propose a strategy based on your needs, and then boom, then you just take the recommendation and and and put the action plan in place.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_03: It's so great, man.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_03: I mean I'm so passionate about helping agents figure out how to how to have a more profitable business, how to how to work less and make more.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_03: And this is absolutely one of those tools that can facilitate that and make that possible, you know, by taking all that work and even the thought that would be required, even if it's not work, but just you know, uh mind space, you know, mental energy that's being taken up by like, okay, I need to I have this cool tool, but you know, how what should I tell it to do?
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_03: If if they just show up and say, get me some deals to close, and uh basically right.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_03: Unbelievable.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_03: So kudos to you and your team for putting that together.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm a huge fan.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I know after our webinar training we did last month, I had a few of my team members that that got started, and just after the initial call with uh with an advisor on your team, like almost like a marketing coach, right?
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um they messaged me and they're like, okay, just that was worth the price of admission, just that made it worth it.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_03: The rest is gravy, and they hadn't even started using it yet.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_03: So uh that's that's what I love about that together.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I love about it's just what I love about software, because when you look at right efficiencies, it gives and we talk to our team about this all the time.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we're building a platform that makes your life easier too, because if you have it it's elevate, it's delegate, right?
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's uh yeah, it's delegate so you can elevate, right?
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: So you're delegate you're Delegating like the tedium so that you can focus on higher level issues because we want to help our clients solve high-level problems.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so we give every single user that has an account on the platform, we give them access to a marketing coach, which is what you're talking about.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_01: So whenever somebody comes in, they meet with a marketing coach, the marketing coach proposes the strategy, and then ultimately the user goes and implements that strategy, unless they want us to do it for them.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: But because we can only do that because we have a software that's doing all the hard work.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_01: So we get to focus our time and attention on relationship with our people, with our audience, with our clients, and the coaches get to have just incredible uh relationships with the people that are under them.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: And um that is so valuable.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_01: You go hire a marketing coach or join a marketing mastermind or hire a marketing agency, you're a thousand to two thousand dollars a month minimum, and we'll give you one for free just for having access to you know your Wheelie account at$297 a month.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's it's it's nothing.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's almost a joke.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_01: But because it's software, because it's software, we get to take all of that overhead expense that a traditional marketing agency would have, and we get to give that money right back to the user because yeah, you can go hire a marketing agency and spend$2,000 a month, but what if you could save$1,700 a month that you could put into ads?
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, based on our company's reporting systems that we're seeing right now, that's an extra two or three customers a month.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_01: What would you rather have?
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_01: The expense or the uh the the return?
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_01: And and so it's powerful, bro.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_03: You mentioned expense.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that that's something that I coach a lot of agents on is they they have to get past if they want to grow and you know, they have these big goals, they want to do this, they see agents selling 500 homes a year, a thousand homes a year, and then working a couple hours a week to do it, and they're like, I want that.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_03: And then they're not willing to hire a coach, take a course, uh, go to a conference, attend a training, buy a tool, uh, because they see it as an expense.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, one of the biggest positive changes in the growth of my business and my career has been switching the perspective to, well, it's only an expense if it's gonna take money out of my pocket.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_03: If you're investing it in something that will make you a shitload more, that's not an expense.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_03: That's an investment factor.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_03: And the mindset shift is everything.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I agree 100%.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like that was a huge perspective change for me.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was like eight or nine years ago.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: I had a mentor like, hey bro, this isn't costing you anything.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_01: This is making you money.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I had a sales coach, one of his uh rebuttals was like, This is the closest thing to free money you're ever gonna get in your entire life because it's making you money, it's not costing you anything.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um but uh I agree with you wholeheartedly, man.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's a mindset shift.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_03: And it's funny to have the conversation with real estate agents because we're literally out there advising people to buy real estate, rent it out so that you can make positive cash flow, which pays you.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_03: Like we get that in what we do for a living and what we're advising others to do, but when it comes to growing our own businesses, we have our heads up our ass.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_03: Or we're just lacking the perspective.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_01: What I would say is it is certainly a mindset shift, but it's it's a lifestyle shift, it's a paradigm shift because I was talking to my wife the other day, and she keeps asking me these beautiful questions about growing her business and attracting clients, and how do I get this person to extend and renew and this and that and the other thing.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_01: And at the end of the day, my my pure and simple explanation is you get what you give.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_01: I've never seen that more played out in sales than anything.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_01: You get what you give.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: And in a in a really simple illustration to that, I have to go talk to my wife before I buy.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_01: Go to your next listing presentation, your next buyer consultation.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_01: I have to talk to somebody else before I can sign with you.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_01: I want to buy this grant, but I don't have the money.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_01: Go to your next listing presentation or your next buyer presentation.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_01: I want to buy a house, but I don't have the money.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_01: What's so fascinating is most of the uh what you would call objections that you get are the ones that you're giving.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of you aren't investing in yourself, but you're asking your clients to do it, and you're wondering why it isn't happening, to Dustin's point.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so I don't know, you know, we could say it's you know, we got our heads up our ass, and I probably agree someday for sure.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_01: But uh I think what you said to pin that is it's just perspective.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like you gotta understand that what you get is what you give.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_01: And that's not just with sales, it's with everything in your life.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_01: What you get is what you give.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_01: Given excuses, you're gonna get them.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_01: If you're given uh you know this, you it's exactly what you're gonna get back.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so pay attention to that and and and really get uh self-awareness is one of the most beautiful gifts in the world.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_01: Get aware to what it is that you're doing so you can start to pivot and adjust the way that you're behaving, and you will see radical shifts in your sales, in your business, in your relationships, and your commitments, and your health, and your finances.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's fascinating.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's fascinating.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_01: But what you get is what you give.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so if you're getting a lot of something you don't like, it's it's likely because you're giving it.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_01: So stop giving it, and you're gonna see some changes.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_03: That is dude, that is so well put.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_03: Perfect way to wrap up the conversation.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_03: I I'm just thinking though, like, you know, we had this webinar in December.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_03: What what do you think?
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna ask your permission, of course.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_03: Do you think it would be wise to give the replay link and and let anyone who maybe wasn't there back in December to watch it and and see what's up with that?
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's fine, just don't give them the special that we get.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_01: We gave a pretty special offer back when we did that, so I don't think we can do that again.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_01: But uh I think the replay would be awesome.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's a lot of really great information in there.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um people, I think it was like a more of like a usability webinar, right?
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_01: People just got to kind of like see how the platform worked.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I think I would love that, man.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_03: It was a training and a walkthrough.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was great.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't think we could give it the special we gave to everybody.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure I'll probably get messages like, oh, I listen to the Master Divid podcast, can get that special.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_01: The answer is no.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so so we're gonna do what adults do here.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_03: We're going to I'll give you a link to watch the replay.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_03: Just know that in that training, an offer will be mentioned that is no longer valid because this happened over a month ago.
• 50:20
  unknown: Yeah.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_03: Now, it doesn't mean that there's not still the value and everything, but that but the specific offer is no longer valid.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_03: If you can get beyond that and be adult about it, enjoy the training because it is awesome.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like I tell my son, be cool.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_01: As long as you be cool about it, man.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_01: We're good.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, so we'll do MassiveAn Podcast.com slash Whitley Replay.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_03: I'll I'll create that link here in a sec.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_03: Uh MassiveAgenPodcast.com slash Whitley Replay, and you can watch the replay of that training, um, which was awesome.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_03: So, Grant, we should probably, even though this is your third time here, we should do the rapid fire questions.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_03: You know, things change.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_03: Things change, life change.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_03: All right, and then we'll we'll let people know where they can find you and learn more about you and Whitley.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_03: Let's see.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_03: All right, my friend.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_03: So either or questions, you can blow through them or elaborate if you choose to.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_03: Facebook or Instagram?
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_01: I probably am spending more time.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_01: I spend more time browsing on Instagram, but I spend more time engaged with my community on Facebook.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_03: Ooh, that's fair.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I found Instagram has definitely become my number one favorite platform.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_03: Probably over the last definitely over the last year.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's just way more positive.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like there was even there was even a study released about this six months ago that uh through survey of millions of people that they were beginning to disengage with content that wasn't incredibly positive because everybody's so like worn out, like on like everything.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so I've just found like more of my attention goes to Instagram because it seems to be more positive upbeat.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_01: People aren't talking about dumb political issues, they're talking about like you know, killing it at life.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think I'm probably a little bit more gravitating towards that.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_01: Now, in my own community on Facebook where I can control it, obviously, that's probably why I spend a lot of time there.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's easy to get engaged with people, but yeah.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, Facebook groups you just can't beat for community.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, Instagram has nothing like that at all.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_03: So for sure.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_03: Uh well, Instagram or TikTok?
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_01: Instagram.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_01: I just haven't gotten into TikTok yet.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_01: The advertising platform that TikTok has built is amazing.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm starting to hear a lot of really good feedback.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so I, you know, my dream for Whitley is true end-to-end ad automation.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_01: And what that means is like I want you to be able to log into a platform, tell it what you need, and then it just goes and advertises your business across all platforms like that.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_01: Whatever it needs to.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Google, uh, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, uh, TikTok, like wherever it is that it needs to be advertised.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh I'm very fascinated by what's happening with TikTok's ad platform.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_01: They have so much attention.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's becoming a serious player.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm I'm really starting to pay attention just from the ads perspective.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I would say I still haven't like I watched I went to TikTok once and I lost like an hour of my life because I couldn't stop watching all the videos, and so I just intentionally don't go back to TikTok.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right, right.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_03: TikTok I've ignored forever, but ever since I started really intentionally doing Instagram reels, if if you're a content creator, TikTok, you cannot ignore.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, um, I started doing these reels, and I'm like, well shit, that works on TikTok too.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_03: So I I posted the exact same thing.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_03: I whenever I post one on Instagram, I post the same shit on TikTok.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_03: I'm growing so much faster on TikTok with people, and there's not much overlap with Instagram, like it's a totally new audience.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_03: I don't recognize any of the names or faces.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_01: TikTok's algorithm is way more complementary to growth, and that they designed it that way, which is very smart.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, very smart.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_03: And so now, because of the the growth there, I'm spending time on TikTok.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_03: So job well done, TikTok.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_03: Uh well, I I certainly took the rapid fire out of these questions, but uh here we go.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um books or podcasts.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_03: Would you rather listen or physically read?
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_01: I would rather listen, but I get more from reading.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_01: If I can like be still, because the way that my mind works, it just doesn't stop.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so a lot of times when I read, it's like the weirdest thing in the world.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_01: I could read like 10 pages and not remember a single thing because I'm thinking about something else.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's very fascinating.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm reading this book right now, it's The Law of Human Nature by Robert Green, one of the most interesting books I've ever read my entire life.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's like six or eight hundred pages, it's a huge book.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_01: But like when I get into stuff that I'm like geeking out on, I really love human psychology.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so when I get into stuff I really like, I really prefer to read.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_01: But we just we just drove home from Breckenridge and uh listen to six hours of podcasts, so I got I don't know.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_01: Again, I get Dustin, it's a weird thing about me is I can't like be a passenger in a car.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, like if I go like even from my office to my house, it's only five minutes.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_01: If I'm riding with my wife, I'll get car sick.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so like I can't look at anything, I can't look at my phone, I can't read, I can't do anything like that.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I have to listen to podcasts.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know, man.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's a tough question.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_01: I listen to a lot of podcasts and I read a lot of books.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_03: So that's funny.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_03: Uh iPhone or Android?
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_03: iPhone.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_03: It's not a question.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_03: Stupid question.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_03: Stupid, stupid question.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um Alexa or Google Home?
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, Alexa.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_01: I probably I've never used Google Home.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_03: Neither have I.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_03: I try to use Google as little as possible.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_03: Evil bastards.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_03: Burgers or pizza?
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_01: Dude, that's a ridiculous question.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I love pizza so much.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_01: I love pizza so much.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um I don't know, man.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna not answer that.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_03: It's not it's like picking your favorite child, right?
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's like well, I'm my favorite son.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_01: I only have one son, but right.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_03: All right, well we'll give you a pass on the burgers or pizza one.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_03: That's the one where you go off the rails as burgers or pizza.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_01: Dude, I love pizza.
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I love burgers.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't know.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_01: I was just in wreck, and we I I like burgers at least once a day.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's uh good really good uh bison meat or really good uh grass-fed Colorado meat.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's tough.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna have to go have lunch.
• 56:28
  unknown: No, I'm hungry.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_01: I was ordering Chick-fil-A while we were recording the podcast.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_01: I may have to change that.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, fantastic.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_03: Chick-fil-A's great.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um, New York or LA.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_01: Man, I don't know.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_01: You ever walk into an area and just feel important?
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_01: Does that ever happen to me?
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I I no, that's cool.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_01: I uh I used to have a car, A7, Audi A7, and when I sold the car, I wrote the ad copy.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I said, you know, this car was really a dream of mine when I first got it.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, This car won't make you a millionaire, but it'll make you feel like one every day.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_01: And um like I don't know, it's just when I walk into LA, you feel a little bit more important, I guess, than when you walk into New York and so overcrowded and interesting.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_01: That may be an extremely pompous response to your question.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, but I've had a lot of fun in LA is just speaking.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_01: I've been I've been to LA more than I've been to New York.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_01: I get I've been asked, obviously, I get asked to speak a lot and always have a lot of fun um whenever um I'm in LA just because it's nice, you know, it's not like ridiculously cold, it's typically not overcrowded where I go.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um I grew up poor, bro, so like I like feeling nice and I like wearing nice clothes and eating in nice places.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I've just had more of that experience in LA than I've had in New York.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_01: The times I've been to New York, it's always been like I'm only there for a very short time and I've gotta get around, and it's always always so many dang people.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's obviously been the years since I've been to New York, but I don't know, it's a good question.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_01: I probably would go more towards LA just because I've been out there more and I've had I've had some more enjoyable experiences.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_03: Fair enough.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_03: Uh see, I feel that way about New York, like the the buzz and the energy.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_03: And you feel like deals are happening there, like you know, business is happening in Manhattan, you know.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_03: So I I like New York because of that.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_01: I've never, you know what?
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_01: I probably should.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_01: The next time I go to New York, I probably should go towards that energy, like towards Wall Street, just to be around it, like just towards some of those places, just to get the vibe.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_01: Certainly not what I've done in the past, but yeah.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_03: Uh NFL or NBA?
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_03: NFL.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_03: Baseball or football?
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh man, I grew up a baseball player, but I watch so much more football today than I do baseball.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um that's a tough one, but probably if I'm like just watching it, I'd say football.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_01: Baseball is really boring to watch.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_03: It is.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um mountains or beach?
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_01: Mountains, without question.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_01: My soul resides in the mountains, bro.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like I just was we were we left Sunday and I was like, God, I just don't want to leave.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_01: I don't wanna I don't want to leave this place.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_01: We had Blizzard for like three days.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_01: We got 15 inches of snow like last Wednesday or Tuesday in Brian.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_01: It was amazing.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_01: I love the mountains so much.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_03: I've you know I've never been snowboarding in Colorado.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_03: I've I've been to some of the um resort towns, but the Jackson Hole is my place, man.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_03: Have you ever been there?
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_01: No, I haven't.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_01: I've always heard really amazing things, but I've never been there.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_03: It is, it's not just the next level, it's like five levels up from all that shit in Colorado.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I was I was on I was like for like six months, I'm like, I need to break, I need a break, I need a break.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so I took a two-week vacation, I ended up working the entire time from like 3 a.m.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_01: in the morning on um when we were as we were released a new project, and um, I promised my wife was like, I know this isn't cool.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like I wanted a break, and I'm actually like I'm I'm exhausted, but I gotta take I gotta take this opportunity.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was like, I let's go somewhere in February.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I was actually gonna hit you up.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, let's go out to Salt Lake, let's go maybe let's go out to Utah, but now I may may pivot, may check out Jackson Hole.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_03: I would man.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_03: I mean Park City is great in the in the winter.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, but uh Jackson Hole, man.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_03: I love it in the summer and specifically the fall, but I've never been to Colorado in the summer, but I really want to.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_01: I would imagine that's the same.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, all the hiking and everything.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_03: Uh the thing about Jackson is the billionaires have pushed out the millionaires.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_03: It's yeah, so expensive.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_03: I I read that it it's the the most expensive zip code in the in the country now, or close to it.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_03: Like a small home's 10 mil.
• 1:00:35
  unknown: Wow.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_03: Like a nice one.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's it's still nice, but uh it's it's just crazy.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_03: Like everything's a million plus.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_01: Everything changes my perspective of uh Tom Ferry.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_01: I see him hanging out in Jackson Hole all the time.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, okay, riding like that.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's good.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_03: He's balling out, man.
• 1:00:53
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I'm lucky it's just five five hours up the road for me, so we go at least once a year.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um, all right, let's blow through these.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_03: Podcast or vlog?
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_01: Podcast.
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_01: Ooh, no.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't know.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh to like listen to or to create?
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_03: Either.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_01: Vlog.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_01: Vlog.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_03: YouTube or Facebook Live?
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_01: I do more Facebook Live.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_01: My team does more of the YouTube content.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_01: I I do personally more Facebook Live.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_03: Uber or Lyft?
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uber.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_03: And uh Gary Vee or Grant Cardone.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_03: That's a tough one.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I paid Gary uh Grant more, but I've probably gotten more from Gary V.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like I've I've consumed a lot of his content and learned a lot.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's helped helped us immensely, like without question.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_01: I've paid Grant, you know, Grant and his companies more for consulting, I've paid for ad space, I've had a show on their network.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've done a lot of stuff from a collaboration standpoint, but I've probably taken more value, I would imagine, from from Gary.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's I don't know.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_01: One of my like number one sales principles is from Grant Cardone.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_01: Always agree.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and uh that's been super effective uh in a lot of the sales conversations I've had.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of the cancellation conversations, you know, if I've ever had a cancellation conversation or I've ever had to work through conflict resolution, you know, a lot of the principles I learned from Grant were great, but I don't know.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think content, brand, marketing, messaging, I've just taken so much more from Gary.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_03: The direction uh I think he's so great with giving people directions to go in.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_03: Like the not really intangible, but like they're not so specific.
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, hey, go over here, follow this path, and then that's what changes everything, right?
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_01: So I I'm the kind of guy like don't give me your free stuff, because I'm gonna I'm gonna use it.
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm gonna take what you tell me, and I'm gonna go out there and I'm I'm gonna take action and I'm gonna implement.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I I probably that's probably why I've gotten so much, because I've gotten I've listened to so much of his stuff.
• 1:02:53
  SPEAKER_01: And like I always joke, like I read four chapters of Ask Gary V and made like a quarter million dollars.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, like don't give me your advice if because I'm gonna take it.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if you don't want me to take it, don't give it to me.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_01: I know that you're there's always that joke, like, well, I'll just give everybody my free secrets because they're never gonna do anything with it.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like, don't give them to me, bro, because I'm gonna take it to use it.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna do the work for sure.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_03: Love it.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_03: Grant, where can people find you?
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_03: Where can they learn more about you and Whitley?
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's a great question.
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_01: Go to whitley.net.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think um what is that the link?
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_01: Or is it massive agreementcodcast.com forward slash whitley.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like one or two, I think the best thing they do is go watch that presentation because you'll learn a lot about me, you'll learn a lot about Willy, and then I think we talk about ways you can connect with me uh beyond that.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so whatever link you've got for them for that.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_01: But um would love to answer questions, any questions I can.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um thankfully very busy and uh I don't have a ton of time, but I try to get back to everybody, try to answer most of my DMs on Instagram.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_03: So love it, man.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_03: Well, we'll link to your social media in the show notes and the YouTube description if you're watching this, and uh and along with the replay link, MassiveAgent Podcast.com slash Whitley Replay.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_03: And then if you just want to use my link to go to the Whitley website, check it out, and get started there, MassivAent Podcast.com slash whitley.
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_03: And uh dude, this has been a great conversation.
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_03: It went longer than I was anticipating, but it was pure frickin' gold, so why stop?
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love it.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_01: I love it, I love it.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me.
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_01: Appreciate it.
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely, man.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_03: See ya.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_03: I appreciate you all for listening this week.
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um, if you are listening on Spotify, I have a special favor to ask of you, right?
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna ask you to pay a fee for listening to the show.
• 1:04:33
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• 1:04:39
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• 1:04:44
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• 1:04:47
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• 1:04:48
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• 1:04:59
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• 1:05:01
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• 1:05:05
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• 1:05:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um, make sure that you're following me on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube.
• 1:05:11
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• 1:05:15
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• 1:05:18
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• 1:05:18
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• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you all for listening to this week.
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_03: We'll be back next week with another episode of the