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42 | When Your Crisis Creates An Invisible Contract · The Messy Middle Podcast

0:00
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Messy Middle, the podcast for women navigating the raw, confusing, lonely aftermath of narcissistic abuse and emotional control.
0:07
SPEAKER_00: I'm Erica Leon, trauma-informed abuse recovery coach, mom of five, and creator of the six keys to unfuckwithable.
0:15
SPEAKER_00: If you're picking up the pieces, questioning everything, and trying to remember who the fuck you were before you were so carefully erased, you're in the right place.
0:39
SPEAKER_00: So, this is when your crisis creates an invisible contract.
0:44
SPEAKER_00: The subheading being Why Some Relationships Change When You Stop Needing So Much Help.
0:50
SPEAKER_00: Oof.
0:52
SPEAKER_00: This may not be at all anything you're going through right now because you're not at the stage yet.
0:58
SPEAKER_00: So if that doesn't resonate, feel free to just skip ahead.
1:03
SPEAKER_00: But I want to talk about this relationship change because I've seen it enough times now to know that I don't think it's particularly unusual.
1:11
SPEAKER_00: But I do think it's incredibly confusing when it happens to you.
1:16
SPEAKER_00: And I just want to pick it apart a little bit in case it helps any of you.
1:21
SPEAKER_00: So this one often involves somebody you love.
1:25
SPEAKER_00: Somebody who may have been absolutely fucking brilliant to you, honestly.
1:30
SPEAKER_00: You've gone through something awful.
1:33
SPEAKER_00: You might have left your marriage or long-term relationship or discovered a betrayal, gone through a horrific divorce, or your entire life has basically blown up in your face, and for quite a while you are genuinely not okay.
1:48
SPEAKER_00: And somebody shows up a friend, a sister, a cousin, and sometimes it's somebody you weren't even particularly close to before everything happened to you, but they become one of your people.
2:01
SPEAKER_00: They answer the phone late at night, they listen while you tell the same story 17 different ways because your brain is still trying to understand how the fuck this became your life.
2:11
SPEAKER_00: You know, when you're in that shock phase, completely blindsided and devastated, you're doing the ugly cry down the wall thing, and you have to turn it every which way, like a Rubik's Cube, for you to try and find some clue as to what and how this happened.
2:30
SPEAKER_00: They might help with your kids or come with you somewhere, you're terrified to go, like to visit an attorney or whatever, and they sit with you while you cry, and they become the person you send that screenshot to.
2:43
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes they're the person who keeps reminding you, no, you are not crazy.
2:48
SPEAKER_00: I saw it too.
2:49
SPEAKER_00: This is a thing.
2:50
SPEAKER_00: Please don't doubt yourself.
2:52
SPEAKER_00: And when you've come out of a high control or abusive relationship, it can be enormous.
2:57
SPEAKER_00: Just that validation and somebody walking beside you.
3:02
SPEAKER_00: And often you've might have spent years having your perception completely fucked with.
3:09
SPEAKER_00: You've had your you yourself have questioned your judgment, your reactions, your memory, because it's been taught and conditioned in you.
3:18
SPEAKER_00: And now there's this other human standing beside you saying, Oh no, I believe you.
3:24
SPEAKER_00: And also something that's very endearing is completely picking aside, like not being Switzerland because you all attend the same club or the same school or whatever.
3:35
SPEAKER_00: Somebody who completely cuts them off, or better yet, holds them to account, and actually speaks to them and says, What the fuck are you thinking?
3:44
SPEAKER_00: You are hurting your kids.
3:46
SPEAKER_00: That can be completely intoxicating.
3:49
SPEAKER_00: And you may remember that kindness for the rest of your life.
3:52
SPEAKER_00: I know I certainly do.
3:54
SPEAKER_00: And then something happens that should be wonderful.
3:58
SPEAKER_00: You start getting better.
4:00
SPEAKER_00: Which was supposedly the whole fucking point, right?
4:03
SPEAKER_00: That's what you have support for, and that's the goal for everyone.
4:08
SPEAKER_00: And that means the phone calls aren't every night, perhaps.
4:12
SPEAKER_00: Something happens and you deal with it yourself without going in for a meeting and a phone call and a bunch of back and forth first.
4:20
SPEAKER_00: And you start making decisions without convening the committee, as it were.
4:25
SPEAKER_00: And you have good days on and off.
4:28
SPEAKER_00: And then several good days.
4:31
SPEAKER_00: And attention starts moving away from what happened to you and back toward your actual life.
4:37
SPEAKER_00: Oof.
4:38
SPEAKER_00: And somewhere in there you notice that something almost imperceptible in this relationship feels different.
4:45
SPEAKER_00: It may be so subtle that you can't even put your finger on it.
4:48
SPEAKER_00: You might make some kind of decision without running it past them, and they seem slightly irritated.
4:55
SPEAKER_00: Or you tell them something you're excited about, and the response you get is a little flat.
5:01
SPEAKER_00: Maybe there are a few more questions about your choices or some advice that you didn't ask for.
5:08
SPEAKER_00: Or you begin noticing that when something goes wrong, there's suddenly enormous engagement again.
5:15
SPEAKER_00: Have any of you experienced this?
5:17
SPEAKER_00: Because it is becoming quite a big one in what I am hearing in my work.
5:24
SPEAKER_00: And because this is a person who was there for you when you were at your absolute lowest, where does your mind go when this happens?
5:32
SPEAKER_00: Probably goes straight back to yourself, doesn't it?
5:35
SPEAKER_00: Am I being ungrateful?
5:37
SPEAKER_00: Have I changed?
5:38
SPEAKER_00: Am I becoming selfish?
5:40
SPEAKER_00: And to be fair, you probably have changed.
5:43
SPEAKER_00: I bloody hope you have.
5:45
SPEAKER_00: But the woman who needed three phone calls before making a decision six months ago may now be perfectly capable of making the decision herself, often without even thinking about it.
5:55
SPEAKER_00: Because that used to be your default.
5:57
SPEAKER_00: You might have stronger opinions now because you're more educated in matters of abuse dynamics.
6:03
SPEAKER_00: I know that is a very big side effect I see with my clients.
6:08
SPEAKER_00: Once they understand how these abuse dynamics work on the micro, you cannot help but see them in oppressive systems on the macro throughout the entire world.
6:17
SPEAKER_00: And your opinions tend to change.
6:20
SPEAKER_00: And you might have more confidence also.
6:23
SPEAKER_00: You might be saying no more because that's a big part of reclaiming energy, especially after one of these type of relationships.
6:33
SPEAKER_00: And you also could be trying things that the woman they first helped would never have dreamed you would be doing.
6:41
SPEAKER_00: And relationships do have to adjust when people change.
6:45
SPEAKER_00: Not that's probably the norm, but that is the ideal.
6:50
SPEAKER_00: But there's one particular version of this that I want to look at today because I see it so often.
6:57
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes during a crisis, two people enter into what I think of as an invisible contract.
7:04
SPEAKER_00: Nobody really sat down and negotiated it, obviously.
7:07
SPEAKER_00: There's no terms, no conditions, you didn't sign anything, nor did they.
7:11
SPEAKER_00: And likely you don't even know it existed.
7:14
SPEAKER_00: But the relationship just quietly organized itself around something.
7:19
SPEAKER_00: You needed help, they became the helper.
7:22
SPEAKER_00: And for a while, that arrangement might have worked beautifully.
7:26
SPEAKER_00: You needed somewhere to fall, they had somewhere soft for you to land, and you were slightly like a baby bird with a baby bird broken wing, and they acted a little bit like a vet or a bird hospital.
7:42
SPEAKER_00: And the interesting part comes when you don't need them in quite the same way anymore.
7:47
SPEAKER_00: Because now you're changing the terms of a contract neither of you really knew you'd made.
7:54
SPEAKER_00: And I think this is where some relationships get really interesting, maybe not in a good way.
8:00
SPEAKER_00: And I want to be careful with this because I can already hear the shitty internet version of what I'm saying.
8:06
SPEAKER_00: I can.
8:07
SPEAKER_00: They would say something like, Your friend secretly liked you being broken.
8:11
SPEAKER_00: And no, I don't want that to be the case here.
8:14
SPEAKER_00: That's not where I'm going with this at all.
8:16
SPEAKER_00: Somebody can genuinely love you, genuinely want the best for you, show up for you in incredibly generous ways, and also get something from being the person who helps you.
8:29
SPEAKER_00: I actually think it's very normal if you're really honest about human behavior.
8:34
SPEAKER_00: If I help somebody I love and I make their life easier, I feel good, right?
8:38
SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, what am I?
8:39
SPEAKER_00: A psycho?
8:40
SPEAKER_00: A lunatic?
8:42
SPEAKER_00: A robot?
8:43
SPEAKER_00: Of course I fucking do.
8:44
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure you do too, right?
8:45
SPEAKER_00: I like being useful.
8:47
SPEAKER_00: I love knowing somebody trusts me.
8:48
SPEAKER_00: I love watching somebody I care about feel better or relieved or more peaceful because of something I was able to give them.
8:56
SPEAKER_00: I certainly feel that in my work.
8:58
SPEAKER_00: It's a huge pull for me.
9:01
SPEAKER_00: And make of that what you will.
9:02
SPEAKER_00: But when a client suddenly sees something she couldn't see before, or she does something she didn't believe she could do, that feels truly wonderful to me.
9:11
SPEAKER_00: My heart nearly bursts every time.
9:14
SPEAKER_00: I walk around grinning about it all day.
9:16
SPEAKER_00: It's pathetic.
9:17
SPEAKER_00: And those of you who are in private concierge work with me and you're listening to this, you know the voxes.
9:24
SPEAKER_00: You hear me smiling and how happy I am.
9:26
SPEAKER_00: Like, I can't.
9:28
SPEAKER_00: I can't even.
9:29
SPEAKER_00: But why wouldn't I feel like that?
9:31
SPEAKER_00: Human beings are relational creatures, are we not?
9:34
SPEAKER_00: We affect each other.
9:36
SPEAKER_00: Where I think things can get a bit complicated is when somebody is unable to tolerate the idea that their giving might also have been meeting a need for them.
9:48
SPEAKER_00: Because there's so much weirdness around this idea of being pure and selfless and saint-like.
9:56
SPEAKER_00: It's fucking weird.
9:58
SPEAKER_00: They can be incredibly attached to certain identities.
10:03
SPEAKER_00: And one of the strongest ones is I'm a good person, I'm kind, generous, I'm the friend everyone can rely on.
10:11
SPEAKER_00: And women in particular get handed a lot of gold stars for quote-unquote selflessness.
10:18
SPEAKER_00: The good mom sacrifices, right?
10:20
SPEAKER_00: The good wife constantly gives.
10:22
SPEAKER_00: The good friend is always there.
10:24
SPEAKER_00: Even if she's mid-waxing her nether region, she'll still pick up the phone.
10:30
SPEAKER_00: And we've been taught to associate goodness with how little we apparently require in return.
10:37
SPEAKER_00: So when you suggest that there may have been some kind of internal payoff to all that giving, people can get really defensive and really weird.
10:45
SPEAKER_00: And I mean they go through all the emotions right in front of your face.
10:49
SPEAKER_00: Excuse me?
10:51
SPEAKER_00: Completely indignant.
10:52
SPEAKER_00: I did all of that for her, Capital H-E-R.
10:57
SPEAKER_00: And yes, you probably did.
10:59
SPEAKER_00: You loved her.
11:00
SPEAKER_00: You wanted her safe.
11:01
SPEAKER_00: You hated watching her suffer, and you would probably do it all again.
11:05
SPEAKER_00: And perhaps it also felt really good at the same time to be important to somebody.
11:12
SPEAKER_00: Those things can exist together.
11:14
SPEAKER_00: I think people in general seem to have a problem understanding or fully getting behind the notion that multiples exist and that many things can be held together.
11:26
SPEAKER_00: Big lesson, I think.
11:28
SPEAKER_00: Because human motivation is messy as fuck.
11:32
SPEAKER_00: I don't particularly trust the idea of complete selflessness anyway, like what the f if most things we do for other people affect us somehow.
11:40
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't contaminate the kindness.
11:43
SPEAKER_00: It's not that black and white.
11:44
SPEAKER_00: If I do something lovely for somebody and their face lights up and I feel fantastic, was my lovely thing somehow less lovely because I enjoyed it too?
11:52
SPEAKER_00: Of course not.
11:53
SPEAKER_00: It's nonsense.
11:55
SPEAKER_00: What bullshit.
11:56
SPEAKER_00: The payoff isn't the problem here.
11:58
SPEAKER_00: The problem comes when I need to believe there wasn't one in the first place.
12:03
SPEAKER_00: You see what I mean?
12:05
SPEAKER_00: Because then if that payoff disappears, I don't have a very good way of understanding why I suddenly feel strange.
12:13
SPEAKER_00: And this is where I've seen the sticky parts.
12:16
SPEAKER_00: Some really interesting dynamics coming.
12:19
SPEAKER_00: But sometimes the person doing all this helping has a life that's become very predictable.
12:24
SPEAKER_00: I'm choosing my words carefully here, which is hard for me, because obviously I'm not saying every woman who helps her friend through a divorce is in a secretly miserable marriage, or she's secretly miserable in her own relationship.
12:38
SPEAKER_00: Please, I am not.
12:40
SPEAKER_00: But I have absolutely seen this happen with women who've been in long-standing relationships that have become the helpers.
12:47
SPEAKER_00: Their life has become, shall we say, a little bit beige.
12:51
SPEAKER_00: Nothing necessarily catastrophic often.
12:55
SPEAKER_00: Nobody's throwing plates and they probably love each other.
12:58
SPEAKER_00: They function perfectly well.
13:00
SPEAKER_00: They work, they parent, pay bills, discuss what they need from Costco.
13:05
SPEAKER_00: They know exactly what the other person is going to order at the restaurant they've been going to for 15 years.
13:12
SPEAKER_00: And perhaps there's also a part of her that doesn't feel particularly alive anymore.
13:17
SPEAKER_00: The helper.
13:18
SPEAKER_00: And then somebody she loves suddenly has a life that is on fucking fire.
13:23
SPEAKER_00: And now there is urgency, there are developments, high octane feelings of belonging, texts, lawyers, custody, discoveries, subpoena's decisions.
13:34
SPEAKER_00: She's leaving, she's going back.
13:36
SPEAKER_00: No, hang on, she's definitely leaving.
13:39
SPEAKER_00: He's done what now?
13:41
SPEAKER_00: And suddenly the helper has somewhere for a huge amount of emotional energy to go that's just been kind of stagnant in life.
13:50
SPEAKER_00: She's researching everything for you.
13:52
SPEAKER_00: She's checking on you.
13:54
SPEAKER_00: She's stalking the cheating ex.
13:56
SPEAKER_00: She's looking up who he's having an affair with.
13:59
SPEAKER_00: She's furious on your behalf.
14:01
SPEAKER_00: She's telling everyone what he's up to.
14:04
SPEAKER_00: She's protective.
14:05
SPEAKER_00: She feels useful.
14:07
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes I think somebody else's crisis can temporarily animate parts of us that have been dormant in our own lives.
14:16
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't in any way mean that we wanted the crisis.
14:20
SPEAKER_00: It means the crisis gave those parts somewhere to go.
14:23
SPEAKER_00: Lit a fire under certain areas.
14:26
SPEAKER_00: Maybe she hadn't felt particularly powerful in her own life lately, but she can be incredibly powerful on your behalf.
14:34
SPEAKER_00: She can tell you that you deserve better than this.
14:36
SPEAKER_00: She can get angry for you.
14:38
SPEAKER_00: She can advocate for you.
14:39
SPEAKER_00: She can help you out and connect you with people she knows.
14:42
SPEAKER_00: She can imagine possibilities for your life that she hasn't really yet allowed herself to imagine for her own.
14:49
SPEAKER_00: And in a strange way, she might be exercising parts of herself through your life, through this experience that you're having.
14:58
SPEAKER_00: And your crisis can also become quite a nice distraction.
15:03
SPEAKER_00: Often I see this while we're spending three hours discussing whether your marriage can survive.
15:10
SPEAKER_00: Guess whose marriage she doesn't have to think about.
15:13
SPEAKER_00: And it does not make her evil or bad, it just makes her human.
15:18
SPEAKER_00: I feel like focusing on someone else is much easier than turning the light around.
15:25
SPEAKER_00: And there's another layer to this that's pretty fascinating as well.
15:29
SPEAKER_00: Your crisis can actually become part of the helper's relationship with her own partner.
15:35
SPEAKER_00: She goes home, where there would usually be silence and boring how was the day it was fine, blah, and then more foam washing.
15:43
SPEAKER_00: To oh my god, you won't believe what's happened with Sarah.
15:47
SPEAKER_00: And now they're talking.
15:48
SPEAKER_00: He asks how you're doing, and she tells him all that's been happening to you.
15:53
SPEAKER_00: They discuss whether your ex is going to pull another stunt.
15:56
SPEAKER_00: Maybe they help you move.
15:58
SPEAKER_00: Perhaps they take your kids for an afternoon.
16:00
SPEAKER_00: They're jointly concerned about you.
16:04
SPEAKER_00: And suddenly a couple who maybe haven't had a great deal of emotional material between them lately have something they are both emotionally engaged in together.
16:14
SPEAKER_00: Maybe like solving true crime, you know?
16:17
SPEAKER_00: Nobody is consciously thinking, Thank fuck Sarah's marriage has imploded.
16:22
SPEAKER_00: Barry and I were running out of material, but it's kind of like when you see people who are empty nesters or a couple trying to deny they should be breaking up, they do a certain number of things.
16:33
SPEAKER_00: They might do a renovation, they move house, or they get dogs.
16:37
SPEAKER_00: I highly recommend dogs, by the way.
16:39
SPEAKER_00: But it's all a huge distraction effort.
16:42
SPEAKER_00: The old be-doo have triangle that I learned as a young man with Tony Robbins.
16:47
SPEAKER_00: You think you have to do this and have that in order to be that.
16:52
SPEAKER_00: But if you just be it first, the things will come.
16:54
SPEAKER_00: Anyway, I digressed.
16:56
SPEAKER_00: But human relationships are full of things we don't know we're getting until they disappear.
17:01
SPEAKER_00: And that's why I keep coming back to this idea of the invisible contract.
17:07
SPEAKER_00: Because there can be all sorts of little payoffs inside a dynamic that nobody deliberately created.
17:15
SPEAKER_00: One of the biggest ones I've seen is where the helper is quietly unhappy in her own relationship.
17:22
SPEAKER_00: So maybe she's thought about leaving, or she could have been thinking about it for years, but leaving feels huge because of the money, the kids, being alone, starting again, or however much of a dick her ex might be in that process.
17:38
SPEAKER_00: And maybe she has absolutely no idea who she would be outside of that relationship.
17:43
SPEAKER_00: And then her friend actually does it in an odd way.
17:47
SPEAKER_00: She was probably attracted to this because of it.
17:51
SPEAKER_00: Because as an observer, she gets to run the experiment that she herself is too frightened to run for herself right now.
18:00
SPEAKER_00: And initially the results look fucking awful, right?
18:04
SPEAKER_00: Her friend is devastated, kids are struggling, everything's falling apart.
18:08
SPEAKER_00: Ex is being a complete asshole.
18:10
SPEAKER_00: There's huge legal bills.
18:12
SPEAKER_00: She's maybe struggling to pay everything for herself.
18:16
SPEAKER_00: She's lonely.
18:17
SPEAKER_00: Dating looks like an absolute shit show.
18:21
SPEAKER_00: And somewhere inside that helper, her experience can quietly reinforce a story that makes her own life feel safer.
18:29
SPEAKER_00: Like she's almost in her head going, see, leaving is awful.
18:33
SPEAKER_00: So I'm doing the right thing by staying.
18:35
SPEAKER_00: And maybe my relationship isn't particularly wonderful, but Jesus Christ, look at this dumpster fire.
18:42
SPEAKER_00: And I want to be really clear here because this is nuanced.
18:45
SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying she is pleased your suffering at all.
18:48
SPEAKER_00: She might be heartbroken for you, she probably is.
18:52
SPEAKER_00: But the experience can simultaneously provide reassurance about her own choice to stay.
18:58
SPEAKER_00: She's like, phew, I'm glad I didn't do that.
19:01
SPEAKER_00: And humans, remember, they can hold contradictory feelings.
19:04
SPEAKER_00: We do it all the time.
19:05
SPEAKER_00: And then something very inconvenient happens to that reassurance that she's getting.
19:12
SPEAKER_00: You recover.
19:13
SPEAKER_00: Broken bird starts growing feathers.
19:17
SPEAKER_00: You get through the worst of it, and maybe you find somewhere to live, and slowly it starts feeling like you're home.
19:23
SPEAKER_00: And she sees you rearranging your furniture because nobody else gets a vote, and she feels that in a little stab in her gut because she has to ask permission for everything.
19:33
SPEAKER_00: And you spend Sunday however the fuck you want.
19:36
SPEAKER_00: You stay in bed all day if you want.
19:37
SPEAKER_00: You start laughing again, you travel, you start building up money, you maybe build a business, which you would never have thought of had all this stuff not happened to you.
19:48
SPEAKER_00: You meet other people, widen your friend group, you might have taken up some hobbies and you know people through that.
19:54
SPEAKER_00: Maybe you date even.
19:55
SPEAKER_00: Maybe old Luca from LA Fitness.
19:58
SPEAKER_00: He's made yet another appearance in this podcast.
20:02
SPEAKER_00: I don't know when that man finds time to train anybody, honestly.
20:06
SPEAKER_00: Or perhaps you don't want another man anywhere near your house ever again, because you've discovered that having the whole bed to yourself and never having to put Lucy down or wipe his stains are life's great underrated luxuries.
20:22
SPEAKER_00: Whatever it looks like, you're alive again.
20:25
SPEAKER_00: And now your life may be confronting the helper with a possibility she really wasn't ready to consider.
20:32
SPEAKER_00: Maybe leaving doesn't destroy you.
20:36
SPEAKER_00: Maybe there really is life on the other side.
20:38
SPEAKER_00: And if she'd secretly wanted some version of that life but doesn't yet have the courage or the readiness or resources or whatever it is to make those changes in her own life, your happiness might hurt.
20:52
SPEAKER_00: It might just gut punch her a bit.
20:55
SPEAKER_00: And that's human too.
20:57
SPEAKER_00: You can love someone and be triggered by what their life shows you.
21:02
SPEAKER_00: You can admire their courage and feel envious of it.
21:07
SPEAKER_00: You can be delighted that your friend is finally free and have some horrible little feeling in your stomach because her freedom has put you back in contact with your own lack of it.
21:20
SPEAKER_00: These are human things.
21:22
SPEAKER_00: The question is, what happens with the feeling?
21:26
SPEAKER_00: With that feeling specifically, because if I'm her and I can say, fuck, watching her live like this is bringing up some really uncomfortable questions about my own life.
21:38
SPEAKER_00: Then I've got somewhere to go with it, right?
21:40
SPEAKER_00: But if my identity really requires me to remain entirely benevolent in this story, like a saint or hero, I may need a different explanation for my discomfort.
21:52
SPEAKER_00: That explanation then becomes you.
21:55
SPEAKER_00: You are the explanation.
21:57
SPEAKER_00: You are the reason for her discomfort.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: Maybe you're moving too fast.
22:02
SPEAKER_00: Maybe she turns out to be you're reckless, you're dating too soon, spending too much money, or you're selfish now.
22:09
SPEAKER_00: You just don't listen.
22:10
SPEAKER_00: You've changed.
22:12
SPEAKER_00: And some of that may even arrive dressed as concern, which makes it incredibly difficult to distinguish.
22:19
SPEAKER_00: Because perhaps she is concerned.
22:22
SPEAKER_00: And perhaps she's right.
22:23
SPEAKER_00: But perhaps she's also projecting.
22:26
SPEAKER_00: Those things can occupy the same sentence, unfortunately.
22:29
SPEAKER_00: And that's why I don't want you leaving this episode diagnosing your friends.
22:34
SPEAKER_00: We're not doing anyone who isn't ecstatic about my growth is threatened by my light.
22:40
SPEAKER_00: We're not doing that.
22:41
SPEAKER_00: No, please let's not do that.
22:43
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes your friend is right.
22:45
SPEAKER_00: Maybe you are being an asshole.
22:47
SPEAKER_00: Maybe you've discovered boundaries and now every request anybody makes is apparently a violation of your sacred energy.
22:54
SPEAKER_00: When I look back at myself in that particular phase, I just cringe and I want to put my hands over my face.
23:01
SPEAKER_00: You might have learned six therapy words and just started diagnosing everybody at brunch.
23:07
SPEAKER_00: You could have been in a crisis for 18 months and haven't asked this poor woman one single question about herself since last February.
23:15
SPEAKER_00: It's highly possible.
23:17
SPEAKER_00: You may literally have bored the tits off everyone about your divorce shenanigans for years and asked constantly for advice you didn't take.
23:26
SPEAKER_00: And in our business here, we call that an ask hole.
23:30
SPEAKER_00: You ask all this advice, you never take it, it just disappears.
23:34
SPEAKER_00: And healing does not confer sainthood.
23:38
SPEAKER_00: You still have to be a decent friend.
23:41
SPEAKER_00: And I do think though there's a useful question underneath all of that, and that is what was this relationship organized around?
23:49
SPEAKER_00: Because that's where that invisible contract that you've made starts to come into view.
23:55
SPEAKER_00: There could have been a period where you called this person before every major decision.
24:00
SPEAKER_00: They knew everything about you.
24:02
SPEAKER_00: They were your sounding board, your reality check.
24:06
SPEAKER_00: They might have been the person who told you what they thought you should do.
24:10
SPEAKER_00: And as you start trusting yourself again, naturally you begin doing more of that for yourself.
24:15
SPEAKER_00: That is desired.
24:17
SPEAKER_00: Now imagine what that might feel like from the other chair.
24:21
SPEAKER_00: Perhaps they genuinely miss the closeness.
24:25
SPEAKER_00: Maybe they miss knowing everything.
24:28
SPEAKER_00: A lot of us are super nosy, by the way.
24:31
SPEAKER_00: That is real.
24:33
SPEAKER_00: And yes, they might miss feeling important.
24:36
SPEAKER_00: That's an incredibly vulnerable thing to admit.
24:39
SPEAKER_00: I liked being needed by you.
24:42
SPEAKER_00: Do you hear that often?
24:44
SPEAKER_00: I doubt it.
24:45
SPEAKER_00: Because underneath that can be an even more vulnerable question.
24:50
SPEAKER_00: If you don't need me anymore, do I still matter to you?
24:55
SPEAKER_00: And all of you with adult kids, you'll know exactly this path.
24:59
SPEAKER_00: I think that's one of the deepest layers in this whole thing.
25:04
SPEAKER_00: Being necessary can feel incredibly secure.
25:08
SPEAKER_00: If you need me, I know my place.
25:12
SPEAKER_00: But if you're perfectly capable without me and you still choose me, now I have to trust something else.
25:19
SPEAKER_00: I have to trust that you enjoy me, that you love me, that I matter even when I don't have a job to do or provide you with something.
25:26
SPEAKER_00: And perhaps that is the next stage of the relationship.
25:30
SPEAKER_00: Can we enjoy each other when nobody is rescuing anybody?
25:34
SPEAKER_00: Can we be friends when I don't need you to solve my life?
25:39
SPEAKER_00: Can you celebrate something wonderful for me without needing to advise me about it?
25:45
SPEAKER_00: Can I be interested in your life again now that mine isn't taking up all the oxygen?
25:50
SPEAKER_00: Can we meet as two people rather than helper and broken bird?
25:55
SPEAKER_00: And in theory, absolutely you can.
25:59
SPEAKER_00: A relationship can reorganise.
26:02
SPEAKER_00: But I'm saying this looking through my fingers, by the way.
26:07
SPEAKER_00: What I have to tell you from what I've actually seen is that I haven't often seen the helper in this particular dynamic be able to recognise the payoff they were getting.
26:16
SPEAKER_00: Or if they do, they won't admit it.
26:19
SPEAKER_00: Because to renegotiate this invisible contract, first you would have to admit there was one.
26:25
SPEAKER_00: And if your whole understanding of what happened is I was selfless, I was there for you, I wanted absolutely nothing in return, then acknowledging that being needed also gave you a purpose.
26:39
SPEAKER_00: It gave you intimacy, distraction, or importance that can feel like an attack on your character.
26:47
SPEAKER_00: That's a lot of self-honesty.
26:49
SPEAKER_00: It requires a level of skill of self-inventory that I don't see too much.
26:56
SPEAKER_00: It requires being able to see something slightly less flattering about yourself without immediately collapsing into shame or defending your goodness and your entire identity.
27:08
SPEAKER_00: Someone would have to be able to say, Oh gosh, I think I really liked being the person you needed.
27:15
SPEAKER_00: I'm happy you're doing well, but I do feel a bit displaced and I didn't expect that.
27:21
SPEAKER_00: If someone could do that, fucking brilliant.
27:24
SPEAKER_00: Now you've got something real to work with, but you may never get that conversation.
27:29
SPEAKER_00: And this is where I want to turn the whole thing around because maybe they never see the invisible contract.
27:36
SPEAKER_00: And even if they don't, the point is you can.
27:39
SPEAKER_00: If you've any kind of experience with high control or abusive relationships, I particularly want you to listen to this part because this is where the episode stops being about analysing the helper and it starts becoming about you, which is really helpful and you can do something with this.
27:55
SPEAKER_00: People who have lived in those dynamics can become astonishingly good at reading other people's emotional weather.
28:03
SPEAKER_00: You know, take in the temperature of everyone's communication.
28:07
SPEAKER_00: You know, when somebody's gone slightly cold, you hear that tiny shift in the tone, you're hyper-vigilant, you can tell when someone isn't quite pleased with you, they haven't said anything, not even a word, but your body already knows, even when they walk through the door, they don't just say a thing.
28:24
SPEAKER_00: You can tell it six rows back in the movies that someone feels that way.
28:27
SPEAKER_00: That ability didn't come from nowhere.
28:30
SPEAKER_00: There may have been a time when accurately reading someone else's mood was genuinely useful.
28:34
SPEAKER_00: It literally saved your life and protected you or kept you in the running for getting some love from one of your family members or relationships that you've had.
28:45
SPEAKER_00: You learned to adjust to whatever they needed, either to avoid pain or to incite pleasure.
28:51
SPEAKER_00: You smoothed, explained, soothed and anticipated.
28:56
SPEAKER_00: You worked out which version of yourself was safest to be around a particular person.
29:01
SPEAKER_00: Who are you going to be around so and so?
29:03
SPEAKER_00: Because they're volatile.
29:05
SPEAKER_00: Who are you going to be around that person?
29:07
SPEAKER_00: Because otherwise you'll get the cold shoulder.
29:10
SPEAKER_00: And then you leave the obvious high control relationship and you learn about boundaries and you work on self-trust, and you're getting much better at spotting when the ex is trying to pull you back into some ridiculous bullshit.
29:24
SPEAKER_00: And then here comes the advanced class.
29:27
SPEAKER_00: Because this person is not your abusive ex.
29:29
SPEAKER_00: They are somebody you love, somebody who loves you, somebody who helped you and appeared to lay everything down just to be there for you.
29:38
SPEAKER_00: There may be no terrible message I can point at and say, there, that's a manipulation right there.
29:45
SPEAKER_00: Nobody's technically done anything egregious.
29:48
SPEAKER_00: You just feel that the relationship is warmer when you're struggling and cooler when you're not.
29:54
SPEAKER_00: That is much harder to do something with.
29:57
SPEAKER_00: Because your old skills can start operating before you even realize it.
30:02
SPEAKER_00: So let's say something happens at work, you already know what you're going to do.
30:08
SPEAKER_00: You're actually quite clear about it, then you think, uh, I'll ask Sarah.
30:13
SPEAKER_00: Why?
30:14
SPEAKER_00: Maybe you genuinely want another perspective, right?
30:17
SPEAKER_00: Fine.
30:18
SPEAKER_00: But perhaps some little part of you knows that asking Sarah restores something between you.
30:25
SPEAKER_00: She lights up, she has thoughts.
30:28
SPEAKER_00: Now you're talking the way you used to talk, and suddenly you feel close again.
30:33
SPEAKER_00: That's worth noticing.
30:34
SPEAKER_00: Or maybe you tell her about somebody you're dating, you're really happy.
30:38
SPEAKER_00: Things are going beautifully, but you notice something in her response, a little flatness, a question that feels slightly pointed.
30:46
SPEAKER_00: You can just tell, it's nothing you can really put your finger on, nothing you could reasonably object to either.
30:53
SPEAKER_00: Next time you talk about him though, because you felt that, you lead with the one annoying thing he did.
30:59
SPEAKER_00: And look at that.
31:00
SPEAKER_00: There's the warmth again.
31:02
SPEAKER_00: She's engaged, now you're both analysing the problem.
31:06
SPEAKER_00: You may not consciously think my problems create connection here, and my happiness creates distance, but your nervous system is very capable of learning exactly that.
31:18
SPEAKER_00: Especially underlined.
31:20
SPEAKER_00: If you spent years becoming exquisitely sensitive to which version of you produces in other people, that is where I think this gets incredibly important to know.
31:32
SPEAKER_00: Because you, as the little broken bird, can start clipping her own wings to remain recognizable to your bird hospital helper.
31:42
SPEAKER_00: No one has to ask her to do it.
31:45
SPEAKER_00: She can feel the old contract tugging at her.
31:48
SPEAKER_00: This is how we know each other.
31:51
SPEAKER_00: This is where I'm safe with you.
31:53
SPEAKER_00: This is how you love me.
31:55
SPEAKER_00: So maybe you downplay the good thing or become slightly less certain around them than you are when they're not there.
32:03
SPEAKER_00: You offer some kind of problem you could easily solve yourself so that they can feel involved.
32:09
SPEAKER_00: You explain decisions you've already made as though they're still up for discussion to let her dive in and kinda eat that with you.
32:18
SPEAKER_00: And slowly, sometimes invisibly, you start performing a quote unquote need.
32:25
SPEAKER_00: You're performing this need that she fulfilled before.
32:29
SPEAKER_00: And oof.
32:31
SPEAKER_00: I think that's a really important line to catch.
32:36
SPEAKER_00: Because if you do have people-pleasing history, this may become one of your most sophisticated practice grounds for boundaries.
32:44
SPEAKER_00: We tend to imagine boundaries as the obvious stuff.
32:47
SPEAKER_00: Somebody behaves terribly, we say no, doors close, very satisfying.
32:51
SPEAKER_00: It is.
32:52
SPEAKER_00: But some of the hardest boundaries aren't with obvious ass hats.
32:56
SPEAKER_00: They're with people we genuinely love.
32:58
SPEAKER_00: People whose feelings matter to us, people who've done beautiful things for us and have been kind and have been loving and have meant a great deal to us.
33:09
SPEAKER_00: And the boundary may not even be something you need to say out loud.
33:13
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it might be, I'm not going to become less certain so that you can feel more useful.
33:20
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it could be allowing someone to be just disappointed that you didn't ask for their opinion and just sitting with that and not letting it eat you up.
33:30
SPEAKER_00: Or maybe letting them think you're making a mistake without launching into a 12-minute defense of why you're not.
33:39
SPEAKER_00: That's a hard one.
33:40
SPEAKER_00: A really hard one for people.
33:41
SPEAKER_00: And I get it.
33:43
SPEAKER_00: That was really hard for me.
33:44
SPEAKER_00: Being able to just not defend yourself and let people think what they think and not have to fall over yourself to make them agree with you, it's huge.
33:54
SPEAKER_00: It could be telling them good news and resisting the urge to immediately diminish it when you sense their discomfort.
34:03
SPEAKER_00: That right there, that's some advanced boundary work.
34:07
SPEAKER_00: Can I allow somebody I love to have a feeling about the person I'm becoming without immediately volunteering my identity to make that feeling go away?
34:19
SPEAKER_00: And for somebody who survived by maintaining connection through adaptation, that can be fucking enormous.
34:27
SPEAKER_00: And I want you to turn that mirror around for a second too, because I don't want helper women sitting under a laboratory light while the rest of us congratulate ourselves on being spiritually immaculate.
34:40
SPEAKER_00: Have you ever enjoyed being needed?
34:43
SPEAKER_00: I know I have.
34:45
SPEAKER_00: Have you ever felt a little pang when somebody who used to call you for everything suddenly stops?
34:51
SPEAKER_00: I have adult kids, so yeah, ask me how I know.
34:54
SPEAKER_00: Have you ever got deeply involved in somebody else's situation?
34:58
SPEAKER_00: Partly because focusing on theirs meant you didn't have to really think about yours for a while.
35:02
SPEAKER_00: It was like a nice break from your life.
35:05
SPEAKER_00: Have you?
35:06
SPEAKER_00: Most of us, I would say, probably have had some version of this.
35:10
SPEAKER_00: It may be not this exact dynamic, but we all get things from relationships.
35:16
SPEAKER_00: We all have roles.
35:18
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes somebody else's growth changes a role that we were really comfortable in.
35:23
SPEAKER_00: The question, I suppose, isn't whether you ever have an unflattering feeling, like, for God's sake, I mean you're a human being.
35:33
SPEAKER_00: The question is whether you can be curious enough about yourself to see it without immediately making someone else responsible for it.
35:42
SPEAKER_00: That's the bit that gives a relationship a chance to evolve.
35:46
SPEAKER_00: It makes me think about my work with my sweetheart clients too.
35:52
SPEAKER_00: There are people I've worked with through absolutely brutal periods of their lives.
35:58
SPEAKER_00: And at the beginning, everything was on fire.
36:01
SPEAKER_00: We're dealing with whatever happened this week, we're getting their body out of activation long enough so they can think we're working out what needs a response, what doesn't, how to kind of sit on your hands and put your fist in your mouth when you really want to go and key someone's car.
36:22
SPEAKER_00: There can be periods where they need a lot of support and then something starts changing.
36:28
SPEAKER_00: You can tell they're stronger, they're starting to trust themselves more, there are fewer fires to fight, and often I basically tell them, go away lovingly, of course, go and live.
36:40
SPEAKER_00: Stretch the time between our sessions.
36:42
SPEAKER_00: You don't need me in your ear every five minutes.
36:46
SPEAKER_00: And there have been times I've told clients, I don't think they need another session right now.
36:50
SPEAKER_00: Full stop.
36:51
SPEAKER_00: Because if my sense of value as their person, their coach, their advisor depends on them continuing to need me at the level they did when they first arrived, then oof, I've made their healing about me or I've done something which is not ethical.
37:09
SPEAKER_00: And I don't want to be indispensable.
37:12
SPEAKER_00: The goal is not to create somebody who can only access her own wisdom when I'm sitting on a Zoom with her.
37:20
SPEAKER_00: That would suffer for her.
37:23
SPEAKER_00: The techniques can open doors.
37:27
SPEAKER_00: That's the point.
37:28
SPEAKER_00: The relationship can help somebody walk through them.
37:31
SPEAKER_00: But eventually, I want to see what she does when she's just out there living.
37:34
SPEAKER_00: I want to give her a chance to just realize how powerful and amazing she is.
37:40
SPEAKER_00: That when the time comes, she'll know what to do.
37:42
SPEAKER_00: My favorite.
37:44
SPEAKER_00: And actually, some of my favorite work comes later anyway.
37:47
SPEAKER_00: The meat grinder is not running the shower anymore.
37:50
SPEAKER_00: I love that part when nothing is on fire.
37:53
SPEAKER_00: And now we get to ask, what do you actually want?
37:56
SPEAKER_00: That's when we start to create, when we optimize and fine-tune everything.
38:01
SPEAKER_00: We're not just thinking about how we make it through and squeak through and survive.
38:06
SPEAKER_00: There's always something juicy to dig into when you are up leveling.
38:11
SPEAKER_00: We can play with the visualization, the NLP techniques, the energetics, and all that lovely weird shit that I love so much.
38:19
SPEAKER_00: And I get to meet another version of her.
38:21
SPEAKER_00: I don't need it to remain that woman who first arrived in order for my role to feel meaningful.
38:28
SPEAKER_00: And I think there's something in that for any helping relationship.
38:33
SPEAKER_00: Good help has to be able to tolerate becoming less necessary.
38:38
SPEAKER_00: And that doesn't mean less connected or less grateful for or any of that.
38:42
SPEAKER_00: It certainly doesn't mean less important either.
38:45
SPEAKER_00: Often the relationship becomes far richer because the person no longer needs you to hold her up.
38:51
SPEAKER_00: Now you get to walk beside her, which I find more gratifying than any of the other parts, to be honest.
38:58
SPEAKER_00: Not everybody will be able to make that transition with you, unfortunately.
39:02
SPEAKER_00: And here's what I really want you to hear.
39:05
SPEAKER_00: You do not need them to understand the invisible contract in order for you to stop fulfilling it.
39:12
SPEAKER_00: Please don't send your friend a dissertation.
39:16
SPEAKER_00: Hi, Susan.
39:18
SPEAKER_00: I've just recently realized my crisis provided you with unconscious secondary gains.
39:24
SPEAKER_00: And I would like to discuss that relational contract that it created.
39:30
SPEAKER_00: Susan's gonna block everyone, and I frankly support her for that.
39:35
SPEAKER_00: You don't actually know everything that's happening inside another person.
39:39
SPEAKER_00: No shit, right?
39:40
SPEAKER_00: And nor do I.
39:41
SPEAKER_00: Maybe some of what I've talked about today applies, maybe none of it does.
39:45
SPEAKER_00: Maybe you may never know exactly what your crisis meant in someone else's life.
39:51
SPEAKER_00: And you don't really need to.
39:53
SPEAKER_00: Because the most useful place to look is at what happens inside you when you're thriving appears to create distance.
40:02
SPEAKER_00: Do you reach for struggle?
40:04
SPEAKER_00: Do you make yourself uncertain?
40:06
SPEAKER_00: Do you offer them a problem because you miss the warmth you used to get when they could solve one of your issues?
40:13
SPEAKER_00: Do you shrink something wonderful until it's small enough to bring into the relationship without disturbing anything?
40:20
SPEAKER_00: That's where the invisible contract becomes visible.
40:23
SPEAKER_00: And it's not really because you've successfully uncovered the other person's motives, it's because you've discovered what version of yourself you feel obliged to become in order to keep that relationship intact.
40:36
SPEAKER_00: And once you see that, you then undoubtedly have a choice.
40:42
SPEAKER_00: And there's one more piece here, because I think this is where a lot of women get stuck, is gratitude.
40:48
SPEAKER_00: You may be listening to all of this thinking, but Erica, she was there for me.
40:52
SPEAKER_00: I know, I know.
40:54
SPEAKER_00: That's why this is so hard.
40:57
SPEAKER_00: If she'd always been an a-hole, you wouldn't need a half an hour podcast episode to work out what the fuck is going on, right?
41:03
SPEAKER_00: The history matters, of course.
41:05
SPEAKER_00: She may have carried you through one of the worst periods you've ever had.
41:09
SPEAKER_00: Periods of your life.
41:10
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it could be both.
41:11
SPEAKER_00: She might have done things for you that you will never forget.
41:15
SPEAKER_00: And I don't want to erase that because the relationship becomes complicated later.
41:21
SPEAKER_00: We do have this tendency, especially now with social media, I find, to rewrite entire relationships once something goes wrong.
41:30
SPEAKER_00: Suddenly every good thing must have been manipulation or every memory gets reclassified.
41:36
SPEAKER_00: I don't think human beings work like that.
41:38
SPEAKER_00: Somebody can have been exactly who you needed during one chapter of your life and struggled terribly with the person you became in the next one.
41:47
SPEAKER_00: Both can be true.
41:48
SPEAKER_00: What are the chances statistically of all the phases I can say at almost 55, I've probably gone through just as many metamorphoses?
42:00
SPEAKER_00: Is that a word?
42:01
SPEAKER_00: Metamorph I don't know what the plural is of that.
42:03
SPEAKER_00: I'm not even gonna think about it.
42:05
SPEAKER_00: You can comment if you want.
42:07
SPEAKER_00: Tell me what it is.
42:08
SPEAKER_00: But think of how many times you've had seismic shifts growing up, growing through your 20s, 30s, 40s.
42:17
SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness.
42:18
SPEAKER_00: What are the odds that somebody can remain with you through all of those without any ups and downs, without some bowing in and bowing out?
42:26
SPEAKER_00: Like, come on, people.
42:28
SPEAKER_00: What is this stupid fucking movie Disney idea shit we have of human relation?
42:35
SPEAKER_00: Both can be true, right?
42:37
SPEAKER_00: They can struggle terribly with the person you become.
42:41
SPEAKER_00: You can honour what they gave you.
42:43
SPEAKER_00: You can love them for it.
42:45
SPEAKER_00: You can remain profoundly grateful.
42:47
SPEAKER_00: What I want you to look at is what you believe that gratitude now requires.
42:53
SPEAKER_00: Because gratitude can quietly become a debt without you realizing she did all that for me, so I can't say no.
42:59
SPEAKER_00: I owe her.
43:00
SPEAKER_00: I owe her an explanation, or I should listen to what she thinks.
43:05
SPEAKER_00: I should listen to all of the feedback she has about my choices.
43:10
SPEAKER_00: How can I possibly pull back after everything she did?
43:13
SPEAKER_00: And somewhere underneath all of that can be an even bigger one.
43:17
SPEAKER_00: I cannot outgrow this relationship because she loved me when I was broken.
43:23
SPEAKER_00: No.
43:24
SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry, but no.
43:27
SPEAKER_00: A people pleaser would absolutely be down with that.
43:32
SPEAKER_00: But it's not going to work.
43:35
SPEAKER_00: Someone pays in that equation.
43:37
SPEAKER_00: Likely both of you.
43:39
SPEAKER_00: If somebody helped you through hell, I hope you remember it.
43:42
SPEAKER_00: I hope you tell them what it meant.
43:44
SPEAKER_00: I hope you don't become one of those people who uses another human being like an emotional life for all for two years and then fucks off into the sunset without so much as saying thank you.
43:55
SPEAKER_00: We owe each other basic humanity.
43:57
SPEAKER_00: But gratitude does not require you.
44:00
SPEAKER_00: Remain in the role that made somebody else feel valuable.
44:03
SPEAKER_00: That's her work, I'm afraid.
44:05
SPEAKER_00: Someone helping you through one chapter does not purchase permanent access to every chapter that follows.
44:12
SPEAKER_00: And discernment is one of the big things we're always talking about on this podcast because so many of us have to rearrange what that is or even acquire it for the first time in a long time.
44:24
SPEAKER_00: Maybe the relationship does survive the change.
44:27
SPEAKER_00: Maybe eventually it finds a different shape.
44:30
SPEAKER_00: Perhaps you become equals in a way you couldn't be while you were drowning.
44:34
SPEAKER_00: I really hope so.
44:35
SPEAKER_00: But maybe it doesn't.
44:37
SPEAKER_00: Some relationships were more dependent on the old roles than either person really understood.
44:43
SPEAKER_00: And there honestly is real grief in discovering that.
44:47
SPEAKER_00: You don't have to turn the other person into a monster though, to let that relationship change.
44:53
SPEAKER_00: You don't have to make the help they gave you meaningless or put it down in any way, diminish it, or find ulterior motives for it.
45:01
SPEAKER_00: And you don't have to go back into crisis to prove that you haven't forgotten who held your hand when you were there.
45:07
SPEAKER_00: You can remember.
45:09
SPEAKER_00: You can be grateful, and you can still fucking fly.
45:13
SPEAKER_00: So I love this little section before you go.
45:15
SPEAKER_00: I want to give you one thing to play with this week.
45:19
SPEAKER_00: Think about a relationship where something has felt slightly different as you've become stronger.
45:24
SPEAKER_00: And I don't want you trying to diagnose any other people.
45:27
SPEAKER_00: Leave them alone for a minute.
45:29
SPEAKER_00: Just turn your attention back towards you and ask, who do I become around this person when I sense they're uncomfortable with the newer version of me?
45:39
SPEAKER_00: Then just notice.
45:41
SPEAKER_00: You might hear yourself explaining more, or perhaps you ask for an opinion on something you'd already decided.
45:47
SPEAKER_00: Maybe something wonderful happens and you suddenly hear yourself saying, Well, it's not that great, but or you notice that you bring this person your problems much more easily than you bring them your joy.
46:00
SPEAKER_00: Oof, that's a big one.
46:02
SPEAKER_00: Look out for that.
46:03
SPEAKER_00: Don't make yourself wrong for it.
46:05
SPEAKER_00: If you have a history of people pleasing, adjusting yourself to preserve connection may be an old and very intelligent skill that you needed often.
46:15
SPEAKER_00: Just notice when it comes online and then experiment with staying where you are.
46:21
SPEAKER_00: Let that good news remain good.
46:24
SPEAKER_00: Let the decision remain yours.
46:27
SPEAKER_00: And if you don't need advice, don't manufacture the need for it.
46:31
SPEAKER_00: Let someone else have whatever feelings they're having without rushing in to become the version of you that makes the relationship feel familiar again.
46:40
SPEAKER_00: You don't need to tear anything up.
46:43
SPEAKER_00: You don't need to confront anyone.
46:45
SPEAKER_00: You don't really even have to decide what the relationship means today.
46:49
SPEAKER_00: Just stop automatically signing the old contract and re-signing it and see what happens.
46:54
SPEAKER_00: Okay?
46:55
SPEAKER_00: Can you do that?
46:56
SPEAKER_00: What do you think?
46:57
SPEAKER_00: Are you nodding?
46:58
SPEAKER_00: Good.
46:59
SPEAKER_00: If that last part hit you, then this is a huge piece of work we can do.
47:04
SPEAKER_00: Because after any high control or abusive relationship, boundaries don't only show up with the person who hurt you, they're often the easy ones.
47:13
SPEAKER_00: Because you know that person isn't safe, right?
47:16
SPEAKER_00: You've gotten used to the fact they're a douche canoe and you're always on your guard around them.
47:20
SPEAKER_00: You don't believe a word they say, you're automatically suspicious.
47:24
SPEAKER_00: That's easy, it's easier to spot.
47:26
SPEAKER_00: The much more interesting work can happen when there are people you actually love.
47:30
SPEAKER_00: Friends, family, people who've shown up for you, people whose disappointment genuinely matters.
47:35
SPEAKER_00: There may be no obvious villain on the other side of the boundary.
47:39
SPEAKER_00: It's harder then, right?
47:40
SPEAKER_00: Pinning a tail on a donkey.
47:42
SPEAKER_00: There may just be somebody you care about having a feeling and your entire body wanting to rearrange itself so they don't have to feel it.
47:51
SPEAKER_00: That's where we can get to work with deeper people pleasing.
47:55
SPEAKER_00: The self-trust, the nervous system piece.
47:59
SPEAKER_00: All of those tiny moments where you know what you want, and then somebody else's reaction enters the room.
48:07
SPEAKER_00: So if you want help with that, you'll find the usual links to laser sessions, even to just work through the one thing.
48:14
SPEAKER_00: They're in the show notes.
48:15
SPEAKER_00: And there's even a gorgeous, by the way, full of blood, sweat, and tears, and the only one of its kind in the world, Trauma Informed Boundaries Course, which is created especially for people who've experienced abuse, high control, andor chronic people pleasing.
48:29
SPEAKER_00: Because I promise you, setting boundaries from scratch without taking into account any of those dynamics that you've experienced is different.
48:39
SPEAKER_00: It's different than just picking a book up off the shelf and having at it.
48:44
SPEAKER_00: And before I leave you, remember, you are allowed to remember the people who carried you.
48:50
SPEAKER_00: You're allowed to love them for it.
48:52
SPEAKER_00: Somebody may have been incredibly important to your survival and still struggle with your freedom.
48:58
SPEAKER_00: You don't need to erase either truth.
49:02
SPEAKER_00: You can hold both, but if your relationship with somebody only feels secure when you're uncertain or struggling, or asking for advice or making yourself smaller, please pay attention to Sometimes you discover that invisible contract by noticing who you feel required to become in order to keep receiving that love.
49:23
SPEAKER_00: And maybe this is one of those moments where all the boundary work finally leaves the workbook and it enters your actual life, oof, yuck.
49:32
SPEAKER_00: Can you tolerate somebody being a little less comfortable with you without returning to a version of yourself you've already outgrown?
49:40
SPEAKER_00: Can you let them miss being needed?
49:42
SPEAKER_00: Can you let yourself keep growing anyway?
49:46
SPEAKER_00: Skin's crawling a little bit.
49:49
SPEAKER_00: You don't have to become less capable so someone else can remain the capable one.
49:54
SPEAKER_00: You don't have to stay uncertain so they can remain wise, and you don't have to keep a wing broken just because somebody once built you a beautiful hospital.
50:05
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
50:06
SPEAKER_00: Be grateful for the hospital.
50:07
SPEAKER_00: It was awesome.
50:08
SPEAKER_00: Remember who showed up.
50:10
SPEAKER_00: And when the wing works again, your duty, your job, your life depends on it.
50:17
SPEAKER_00: You gotta fucking use it.
50:18
SPEAKER_00: Fucking use that wing.
50:21
SPEAKER_00: I'll love you and leave you.
50:22
SPEAKER_00: I hope that this helps some of you who might be going through this.
50:26
SPEAKER_00: I'm as always sending you tons of love and hugs.
50:30
SPEAKER_00: And if you want me to answer any questions, please drop them in the show notes.
50:34
SPEAKER_00: And I will see you next time.
50:36
SPEAKER_00: Please take care of yourselves.
50:39
SPEAKER_00: Loads of love.