Latest / Leaders in Customer Loyalty, Powered by Loyalty360 / #445: Leaders in Customer Loyalty: Industry Voices | Driving Loyalty with Purpose: A Conversation with Chris Jones of ITA Group

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#445: Leaders in Customer Loyalty: Industry Voices | Driving Loyalty with Purpose: A Conversation with Chris Jones of ITA Group · Leaders in Customer Loyalty, Powered by Loyalty360

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Good afternoon and good morning.
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: This is Ethan Perry from Loyalty360, welcoming you to another episode of Leaders in Customer Loyalty Industry Voices.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: In this series, we talk to the leading agencies, technology partners and consultants in customer channel and brand loyalty about the technology, the trends and the best practices that are impacting the ability of brands to drive unique experiences, enhance engagement and, most importantly, build customer loyalty.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Today we have the pleasure of speaking with Chris Jones, senior Vice President of Engagement Solutions at ITA Group.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: Welcome, chris, I'm glad you could be here.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: Hey, good to see you, Ethan.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: I'm glad to join.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: Awesome.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: Well, to start it off, can you tell us a little bit more about yourself and your role with ITA Group and your background in loyalty?
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, I'd be happy to.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: I'm with ITA Group.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: I lead what we call our engagement solutions, which really goes across three key areas.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: The first, which we're really talking about today, is customer loyalty.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: We have also a practice in channel incentives and loyalty and, last but certainly not least, we have an employee engagement practice, and so we consider those all our engagement solutions.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: I've been here a little around four years.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: Before that, on the agency side, I was actually the client.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: So for 30 years I was a client from Consumer Products and Mars Incorporated to Financial Services to most recently, about eight years in retail.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: And so that's what brings me here to ITA Group to really focus on retail consumer loyalty, helping our clients in that space.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: Awesome.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: Well, that leads me to my next question.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: Some folks in our audience might not be familiar with how ITA Group supports brands' customer loyalty efforts.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: Can you give us a brief overview of what you guys do and the industries that you work with?
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: Our industry collaboration is pretty diverse.
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: It's everything from automotive to retail, to industrial products, to manufacturers, some who go through intermediaries, some who go direct to the customer.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: But in all those instances we're working with them on customer loyalty or intermediary and customer loyalty.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: And one of the things that we really practice is we think there's six keys to a successful loyalty program Strategy and design.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: The technology that operates and maintains those programs.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: The operation of that program day in, day out.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: The creative services to bring all those to life.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: The theme, the communications.
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: The redemption of or fulfillment of awards, if there's tangible awards in your program.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: And last but certainly not least, analytics and optimization of the program.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: And for our clients, in 90% of the instances we provide all those services to them and then in other instances we might be just your operational support or just your technology provider.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: So that's kind of the way we approach supporting clients in the loyalty space.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: Awesome.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: Well, we also saw that ITA Group recently released some research on transforming customer loyalty programs.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: That includes insights on things like driving visits, spend and market share.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: Can you share more about the key findings and what sparked the need for this research?
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: There's probably two things that were going on to drive the research.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: We see oftentimes industry thought leadership around why is loyalty important?
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: And I think for most companies they cross that bridge, they know that loyalty is important, and so instead we focused on what are the key drivers of the desired outcomes from your loyalty program and, as you already mentioned, it's visits, it's spend and it's share from competitors.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: And so what we did the research for is to really validate what are the elements of the program that drive those desired outcomes and how do the 60 programs we assessed quite frankly stack up against one another in terms of meeting those participants and members and consumers needs.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: The reason we did it is because a lot of our existing clients and prospective clients say what is it about my program that's hitting the mark and what are some things about my program that could be better?
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: So now we've got a really great basis to say these are the key drivers of program success and we can help clients evaluate how they stack up against those keys to success.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: Amazing, Awesome.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, speaking of research, in our most recent state of customer loyalty report at Loyalty360, we found that 79% of the brands we surveyed have an interest in updating, enhancing or redoing their customer loyalty offerings.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: So how can brands strike a balance between innovating in their loyalty programs and maintaining consistency for their existing customers?
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: It's a great question and I want to back up a second before I get to that, because our studies show that there's two big drivers of success in a program value and ease.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: And value actually drives three quarters of the benefits that consumers perceive in these programs and ease is kind of a table stakes.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: So when we get to this question of should I change, should I keep consistency or should I change my program, it really comes down to kind of a fairly fundamental assessment, and that is this if your loyalty program seems to plateaued, you're maxed out in enrollment, you're seeing waning behaviors, you're seeing declines in the extent to which your existing program is able to move the needle on those business outcomes One, it's probably time to say what should we change?
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: And two, it's pretty low risk to make the change if you think about it, because you're not getting what you wanted to get.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: On the other hand, if you say you know what, we've got all those things and we're still growing, we're still moving behaviors, then consistency is probably what's best for your program.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: But in either instance, even if you've got consistency, I think there's the mechanics of your program, but there's also those unique experiential elements of your program, and so we find that almost every program out there, even if they're continuing to do well, has an opportunity to lay in what we'd call these signature experiences that are of and from your specific brand.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: So we find that that's another thing that a lot of clients would say I don't want to change the core of my program.
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: It's working Well.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: What can I overlay on top?
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: And that's a place where we kind of have some specialization as an agency specialization as a as a agency, amazing.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: Um.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: So you already mentioned, you know, that one of the key takeaways from your research is value and ease as the two, you know, big drivers of loyalty program success.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: Um, what are some ways brands can provide value to their customers to truly increase the overall customer loyalty and satisfaction?
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: sure I think, um, the obvious part of value is what's in it for me.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: What's that exchange of value?
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: If I'm going to give you my information and track my purchases and use your app or your card or whatever it might be, what do I get out of that?
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: So there is the fundamental expectation that I'm going to get access to exclusive offers, promotions, deals.
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: It could be that it can also be access to offers that are beyond your particular store.
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: And then the last thing could be what are the experiences, what are the things that maybe I've got surprise and delight, I've got a gift.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: It's something that's not just points equal a free cup of coffee.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: It's my loyalty gives me access to certain experiences, and that's where you can layer in those signature experiences and make an emotional connection, because that is one of the biggest drivers of the consumer's perception that your loyalty program adds value.
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: It's do I connect with an emotional.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: So sometimes we focus on the deals and those sorts of things, but it's as much about emotional connection in some instances, if not more, for your most valuable customers.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, and that's something that we hear about a lot right now from many brands working on.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: How do you effectively incorporate non-transactional rewards, like exclusive experiences or benefits, and how do you use that as part of your loyalty strategy to strengthen customer engagement?
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: Can you talk a little more about that and how those kind of things can help differentiate customer loyalty programs?
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, and you used a word that I think is at the core of the key to this, and that is exclusive.
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: A lot of times you'll see programs say, oh, and when you're a member of my loyalty program, you get access to these 100 discounts at other companies, at partners, at whatever it might be.
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: Those offers are not exclusive.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: I can get them from somewhere else.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: I can get them from being part of AAA, I can get them from being part of this program and they're the same offers that you have.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: So we really emphasize that part about exclusive and one of the things that we know is that when you make it exclusive, your best bet is not to look outside of your business for those kind of deals and offers is to look within your brand and say what is it about our brand, who we are and things that only we would do.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: And if you don't mind, I'll give you a quick example from my time in retail, when I was the CMO and chief merchant at Casey's General Stores.
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: We launched loyalty for the first time and of course we knew that we need to have points for what you bought and points for fuel and ways to redeem for discounts on fuel and discounts on your next pizza.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: But what we did is we dug deeper and we said you know, casey's had half of its stores in towns of 5,000 people or less, and what we learned about those towns was that those towns connected the success of their local school as a proxy for the vibrancy of their community, and so we created a program that had the ability to turn your points into a cash donation to any K-12 school anywhere in the United States.
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: So what that meant is that Casey's was not only present in your community with a store, which is unique, but we had a program where you could give cash to your local school, and it connected the values of the consumer, the values of that community and the values of the brand.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: So that's an example I like to share with people about how you make something truly and unmistakably of your brand, and if any other brand tried to pull that off, it wouldn't have rung true the way it did for cases.
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: Those are the kind of things we look for with our clients.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: That's awesome.
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: That's a perfect example and I'm sure that that really helps drive loyalty within that brand and created brand advocates, which is really, you know, one of the things we look for as an outcome of a healthy loyalty program is brand advocacy from the customers.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: So can you give some advice about how brands can ensure that their loyalty programs help create stronger brand advocates?
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think some of it is sort of the things that the industry is talking about today.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: Personalization you know it's a must, have it's table stakes, but I don't think you can underestimate the importance it plays in driving advocacy.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: And it's interesting because a lot of times people will say well, I need to take some extreme step of personalization.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: And we often find that clients can take really great steps doing basic things.
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: For example, you have all this first party data from all the transactions your customers make and you're sending out a communication about some special offer and if you don't send the image of the thing that that particular individual actually bought, you've just missed an obvious opportunity to personalize.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: It might say, ethan in the subject line, but if I show a product that's not one of the things you bought, I've missed the opportunity.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: So one emotional connection personalization Again, I think that's pretty clear and everybody gets that and would espouse that in the industry.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: I think that's pretty clear and everybody gets that and would espouse that in the industry.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: The second thing is it's not because loyalty programs are discount programs, but consumers do expect value.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: They expect to be rewarded with something that exchange between them and the brand about why do I bring my loyalty to you Because you give me special access.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: So whether it's offers or access to experiences, that's important.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: And the third thing is just those emotional connections.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: So if you had a loyalty program that's wildly successful for a number of years now, we often ask clients what experience, or what tangible breakthrough touchpoint, as we call them, do you send to the top 1% of your most valuable customers every year physically to their home?
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: And you kind of get a blank stare a lot of the time because like, oh well, we don't do that.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: It's like, well gosh, why do your mechanisms?
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: You might have tiers, you might have special access that you've given as people got more valuable, but why not take some simple opportunity to do something special, totally unexpected, for your most valuable customer?
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: So those are the kind of dimensions that drive the advocacy, and that advocacy is perceived through value needs, as our study demonstrated.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: Awesome.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: Well, on the flip side of that is the fact that sometimes brand detractors can be a real opportunity and detractors complaints and lack of commitment can, you know, actually help guide a brand towards improving their loyalty program?
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: Are there any metrics you recommend brands track when it comes to detractors to help improve their loyalty strategies and change those outcomes?
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there's two things I would advocate for with detractors.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: There's no doubt that you're going to get great value by synthesizing and understanding verbatims, and I think you talk about when you get negative feedback.
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: What I would say is that for every one person who sends you some negative feedback about your program, there might be 10 people who haven't sent you any negative feedback, but their purchase cycle is elongating, which is a predictive factor of dissatisfaction.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: Not everybody who's no longer finding your program compelling is going to write you a letter, send you an email, give you a negative comment, because that takes extra effort on their part.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: So we always like to say, yes, synthesize the verbatims, use your tools, use your AI tool, get the themes out of that.
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: No doubt about that.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: But also we think that watching metrics like elongated engagement with your content or with the behaviors the behaviors are going to tell the story of detractors well before the verbatim complaints will.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: In our experience, Awesome.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: Well, in a crowded marketplace where many loyalty programs are offering similar rewards, how can brands really differentiate themselves by fostering emotional loyalty and building stronger, more meaningful relationships with their customers?
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: Well, I think you know some of it we I probably already mentioned, so I'll repeat myself just a little bit which is we do think this kind of signature branded experience is the key to successful programs and it's the key to making those connections, because if you say airline X and airline Y and airline Z, all have their schema for dollars spent, equals points.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: Points turn into miles, miles turn into free flights.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: We're not distinguishing among those.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: But what does your brand stand for and how do you inject those unique signature things that are of your brand, like the example I gave with Casey's, and so I think that's probably more important right now than changing again the table stake, and so I think that's probably more important right now than changing again the table stake mechanisms.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: But I think that's one thing we always work closely with.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: In fact, we have an approach we call Epic design and we use it originally for helping a consumer, a client, design their program from scratch.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: And Epic is an acronym that stands for empathy, purpose, impact and context, and so each of those is a lens through which we view who is this brand in.
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: Epic is an acronym that stands for Empathy, purpose, impact and Context, and so each of those is a lens through which we view who is this brand in business and how do they connect best with their end consumer, and we use that to create the structure of the program, the mechanics, but also those unique experiential things.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: So those are things I think can help drive successful programs and uniqueness.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: Excellent Thanks for sharing.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: So, as you're looking forward, what do you see as the next big thing in customer loyalty and what is ITA Group focused on as we continue throughout 2025?
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: analytics at the core of your program and I don't think you can ever have too much test and learn or too much in analytics for your program, because we have yet to find any clients who have learned everything about the influence they can have on their consumer.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: So I don't know if it's the next big thing, but we're very focused on making sure that our platform enables it at scale with repeatability and test and scale quickly with successful offers.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: So I think increasing the velocity that for clients and with clients is really important.
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: Where we sit today and I don't want to be your only guest that doesn't use the two letters AI but obviously all businesses who work with technology and deliver technology, like we are, are looking in areas specifically around next best offer.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: But I'd say we're more intrigued by next best opportunity, and what I mean by that is offer is what should I send to somebody, but opportunity is who the person I should be targeting is, and we think that's a more fertile space in the coming 12 months, necessarily, than just next best offer, because the next best offer can be estimated in a pretty predictable and confident way without AI, but next best opportunity sometimes requires more of the tools of AI than next best offer does.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: Awesome.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: Well, now we're moving on to everyone's favorite portion of the interview, the famous quickfire questions.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: We ask that you keep the answer to a one word or short phrase, and I'll jump right into it.
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: Okay, how would you describe your work life?
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: Oh dynamic.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: If you have a day or a week off from work, what are you doing?
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: A day, we're probably at a soccer match.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: A week, we're at the beach.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: If you could live in any city or country, where would you live?
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: Probably San Diego Good city.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: If you could go back to school, what would you study?
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: Engineering.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: What facet of your job would you like to know more about?
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: Client decision-making.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: How do they go about choosing their partner?
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: What facet of your job would you like to know less about?
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: Probably technical requirements.
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: What motivates you when tackling challenges at ITA Group?
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: Definitely motivated by measurable client impact.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: And what do you draw inspiration from?
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: What lights your fire?
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: I like enabling change for our organization and for others.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: And what is your favorite sport or hobby?
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: Sport, definitely soccer, Hobby probably music.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: Awesome, and what do you typically think about at the end of the day?
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: At the end of the day I'm thinking about my three sons' days.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: I wonder what they did.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: They're kind of spread a little bit far and wide now, so I was curious what was their day like?
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: What did they do today?
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: That's great.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: Well, Chris, thank you so much for taking the time to speak with us today on Leaders in Customer Loyalty.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: We loved having you for this episode of Industry Voices.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: It was great getting your perspective on customer loyalty and we look forward to learning more from you and the team at ITA Group throughout the rest of this year.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: I want to thank everyone for tuning in to Leaders in Customer Loyalty today.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: If you haven't already, please subscribe to the podcast wherever you're listening and make sure you follow and subscribe to Loyalty360 on YouTube and LinkedIn.
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: The links are provided below, and don't forget to join us every Tuesday for another episode of Industry Voices, and if you have any questions, feel free to reach out.