Latest / To All the Men I've Tolerated Before / Another Check-In on the Four Fear Responses

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Another Check-In on the Four Fear Responses · To All the Men I've Tolerated Before

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Speaker 1: Hey, Team Telerator, It's Natalie and this month, for our
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Speaker 1: final episode of the month, I Am Free posted an
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Speaker 1: episode that we did with Amy green Smith about the
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Speaker 1: four fear responses. I felt like in these trying times,
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Speaker 1: being able to have a reminder of the ways that
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Speaker 1: our body responds to fear and how valid fear is
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Speaker 1: as an emotion would be a really good way to
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Speaker 1: prepare for what's that he had. When it comes to what's ahead,
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Speaker 1: there are a lot of things that I'm scared about,
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Speaker 1: and you'll probably hear them on future episodes as we
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Speaker 1: continue to record throughout the year. However, there is one
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Speaker 1: thing that I'm not scared about, and that is that
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Speaker 1: I know I have a really great community of people
0:49
Speaker 1: who listen to the show and support my work, and
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Speaker 1: that makes me feel so much better each day. The
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Speaker 1: podcast isn't going anywhere, we will say, still be here
1:00
Speaker 1: fighting misogyny, calling out everyday misogyny, because it is through
1:06
Speaker 1: awareness of these small acts of misogyny we can truly
1:11
Speaker 1: do some global and national work. I hope everyone's taking
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Speaker 1: care of themselves. I'm sending you all of my love
1:19
Speaker 1: and my thoughts, and I'll see you next week. Hey tolerators,
1:45
Speaker 1: listens to all the men I've tolerated before with Nathay Katona,
1:49
Speaker 1: your weekly look at everyday misogyny. Today, my guest is
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Speaker 1: Amy Greensmith, host of the Bold based Truth podcast. Amy
1:58
Speaker 1: as a life coach and Hi no therapist. I'm gonna
2:01
Speaker 1: stumble over that syllables. Are you kidding? Her podcast is
2:07
Speaker 1: where she brings listeners together to talk shit about the
2:09
Speaker 1: things that matter today. She will be helping me dive
2:12
Speaker 1: into the different fear types and how they perpetuate the
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Speaker 1: misogynistic cycles we live in. Thanks for being here, Amy.
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Speaker 2: Hi Nat. I'm excited to connect and talk about this stuff.
2:23
Speaker 2: I could talk about it all day.
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Speaker 1: I'm excited. I'm excited that your entire show is based
2:28
Speaker 1: around talking shit. I love talking shit.
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Speaker 3: Well, it's it really is around talking about the stuff
2:38
Speaker 3: that we avoid all the time, you know. And that's
2:42
Speaker 3: why I called it the bold face Truth is I
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Speaker 3: feel like we tell boldface lies all the time, you know,
2:48
Speaker 3: and we're people pleasing, and so what's the opposite of
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Speaker 3: that bold face truth? Like, what would life be like
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Speaker 3: if we were all speaking.
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Speaker 2: Up for ourselves?
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Speaker 1: Yeah? I get that because I've been stretching out my
2:58
Speaker 1: comedy skills recently, and I realized that the majority of
3:04
Speaker 1: the time that people laugh at me, it's literally just
3:06
Speaker 1: because I've told them something that I thought, like, hey,
3:09
Speaker 1: that's a red flag, and they think I'm joking. I'm like, no,
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Speaker 1: You're literally full of red flags. I'm just like counting
3:15
Speaker 1: them as we sit here.
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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, exactly, I love it. I love that you
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Speaker 2: do that.
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Speaker 1: So tell me more about these four fear responses that
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Speaker 1: we live with.
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Speaker 3: Sure, so this could be a full on, like little
3:31
Speaker 3: ted talk, So you just interrupt the fuck out of
3:34
Speaker 3: me if you need to. So we've got we've all
3:38
Speaker 3: heard fight flight, right, we've all heard of that, and
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Speaker 3: we've also talked about freeze, and then there's sort of
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Speaker 3: this newer one on.
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Speaker 2: The block called fawn a fawning response.
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Speaker 3: So if we think about all four of these from
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Speaker 3: a primitive lens, Let's say it is our ancestors and
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Speaker 3: they are trying to survive, and they are running from
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Speaker 3: some sort of wildlife, from a mountain lion. If you
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Speaker 3: were to fight, you would obviously try to fight the
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Speaker 3: mountain lion. If you were to flee, you would run away.
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Speaker 3: If you were to freeze, you would obviously hold still.
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Speaker 3: If you were to fawn, you are placating. You are
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Speaker 3: saying like, here, kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty, do you want
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Speaker 3: a little treat?
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Speaker 2: Why don't you go over here? Right?
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Speaker 3: So, the idea behind fawning is that you would be
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Speaker 3: placating or acquiescing to an aggressor or a captor, or
4:31
Speaker 3: some sort of type of threat.
4:33
Speaker 2: Right.
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Speaker 3: Well, hopefully all of y'all listening aren't necessarily running from.
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Speaker 2: Wildlife all the time.
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Speaker 1: Mountain lion, cocaine bear.
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Speaker 3: Right, hopefully you don't have to have a run in
4:48
Speaker 3: with cocaine bear. But all four of these fear responses
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Speaker 3: have adapted and iterated themselves into modern life. So there
4:59
Speaker 3: are re why we're feeling such incredible anxiety, depression, et cetera.
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Speaker 3: Because they are evolutionary. They are iterations of our primitive
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Speaker 3: fear responses. So fight has now sort of evolved into
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Speaker 3: what we experience as anxiety. So if we're in a
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Speaker 3: situation where we feel a sense of fear, threat, or stress,
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Speaker 3: that kicks in our defense mechanism and we go, Okay,
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Speaker 3: how do I stay safe in this situation?
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Speaker 2: Can I fight? If you can't fight.
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Speaker 3: Oftentimes it will send in a huge surge of anxiety,
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Speaker 3: and so it's an energy and it's telling you there's
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Speaker 3: something awry here that I don't feel totally safe with.
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Speaker 2: Right.
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Speaker 1: I was talking recently about my Oh it was on
5:56
Speaker 1: our Patreon episode with our good friend Annie Seid, who's
5:59
Speaker 1: on here from time to time, and we were just
6:02
Speaker 1: talking about our generalized red flags, and we were talking
6:07
Speaker 1: about how ours is like the need to feel like
6:10
Speaker 1: we're always right. And I was like, Oh, I'll fight
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Speaker 1: to the depth to be like I didn't do anything wrong.
6:15
Speaker 1: I did not do anything wrong because of the anxiety
6:18
Speaker 1: that comes from doing something wrong. So I spend a
6:23
Speaker 1: lot or I used to therapy everybody, but I used
6:27
Speaker 1: to spend so much emotional mental load, like prescripting out
6:31
Speaker 1: arguments in my head, like oh, this person's gonna hate me,
6:36
Speaker 1: so it's fine. I have like all of these receipts
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Speaker 1: that make them a bad person, and I'll just be
6:41
Speaker 1: ready to quip them out if I need them. So
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Speaker 1: I think it's so interesting how we've now started to
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Speaker 1: categorize fight as more of a like feeling verbal component
6:53
Speaker 1: than literally like throwing hands.
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Speaker 2: That's exactly exactly right.
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Speaker 3: So essentially a fight is internal now, and so it
7:04
Speaker 3: creates sometimes very physiological responses where we have like the
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Speaker 3: sweaty palms or the rapid heartbeat, or for me, anxiety
7:14
Speaker 3: showed up as extreme worry, so it would just be
7:18
Speaker 3: sort of like this mental loop, and part of it
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Speaker 3: was sort of an addiction to the relief. So as
7:26
Speaker 3: soon as there was a relief, or maybe in your situation,
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Speaker 3: as soon as that person walks away or the situation's done.
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Speaker 2: Then you can be like, okay, cool, cl cool, cool.
7:35
Speaker 2: I took care of myself.
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Speaker 3: I took care of myself. I fought the mountain lion right.
7:40
Speaker 3: And I do think that it's different for different folks.
7:45
Speaker 3: I think there's a difference between a feeling of anxiety
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Speaker 3: that's situational versus something that is that you've struggled with
7:54
Speaker 3: your entire life, and I think that needs to be
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Speaker 3: treated by the appropriate practitioners. But one of the things
8:00
Speaker 3: that my friend, my friend and colleague, Britt Frank, talks
8:04
Speaker 3: about and she speaks a lot about anxiety, she talks
8:08
Speaker 3: about how anxiety is genuinely just messaging, and that's how
8:13
Speaker 3: I feel about pretty much all emotion. If you're feeling
8:16
Speaker 3: a sin, it's a guilt, overwhelmed stress, excitement, euphoria, bliss,
8:20
Speaker 3: whatever it happens to be. All of those things that
8:23
Speaker 3: we experience as humans is simply just messaging. It's just
8:28
Speaker 3: there to be like, bitch, I need you to pay attention.
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Speaker 3: But we don't do that with anxiety. We go, holy shit,
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Speaker 3: I got to get rid of this. Why am I
8:35
Speaker 3: feeling this way? We want to run, We're like, get
8:37
Speaker 3: me out of here. Instead of going. Is being around
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Speaker 3: this person a red flag or a pink flag, is
8:45
Speaker 3: being that's the baby red flag right, or being around
8:51
Speaker 3: this situation, or working in this environment, or having to
8:55
Speaker 3: have this specific skill set or do these different things.
8:58
Speaker 3: We have to examine that anxiety to go, am I
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Speaker 3: actually in fucking danger?
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Speaker 2: Or is this just new?
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Speaker 3: Because a lot of times we will experience a fear
9:10
Speaker 3: response when something is just straight up new. It's not
9:14
Speaker 3: necessarily that danger is afoot, whether it be physical or emotional.
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Speaker 2: We're just we think.
9:21
Speaker 3: That it's I need to prepare, I need to fight,
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Speaker 3: I need to flee. What we have to do is
9:27
Speaker 3: examine the situation and go, wait a minute, where is
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Speaker 3: this fear?
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Speaker 2: Coming from. What am I making up about this?
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Speaker 3: What is the messaging so that we can properly handle
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Speaker 3: it right, Because if it's something that is more like
9:40
Speaker 3: a chemical issue that you need rectified with medication, that's
9:43
Speaker 3: one thing. Or if it's I just I haven't moved.
9:47
Speaker 3: I haven't physically moved my body in two weeks. I
9:50
Speaker 3: need to go and like get this out of my body.
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Speaker 3: There's so many different remedies. But if we don't examine
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Speaker 3: what actually caused this, then we just keep.
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Speaker 2: Going what's wrong with me?
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Speaker 3: And I'm trying to run away from this symptom instead
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Speaker 3: of seeing what the root causes.
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Speaker 1: When I was a teacher, I saw this played out
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Speaker 1: not so much with fear, but with children and anger,
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Speaker 1: where that they had already internalized that their anger was
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Speaker 1: a negative quality and therefore was constantly going to get
10:22
Speaker 1: in trouble. And if I was an adult in the
10:25
Speaker 1: room and they were getting angry, they knew that I
10:30
Speaker 1: was the person who was about to deal out a
10:32
Speaker 1: punishment and it would floor kids when I would just
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Speaker 1: look at them and go, so what is this about today?
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Speaker 1: And they're like, well, I have anger issues, haven't you heard?
10:41
Speaker 1: And I'm like well, yeah, okay. I was like, we
10:45
Speaker 1: all saw inside out, all of the feelings matter, and
10:48
Speaker 1: they all get to have a turn at the control board.
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Speaker 1: If anger is yours today, we can get through it.
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Speaker 1: And I feel like school is one of those places
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Speaker 1: where fear anger, even sometimes sadness, because it's not a
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Speaker 1: really great place in the curriculum map for a kid
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Speaker 1: to have a meltdown, all of a sudden, they get demonized.
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Speaker 3: Sure, because emotions are fucking inconvenient. They're fucking inconvenient, and
11:19
Speaker 3: if you, as a teacher, are dealing with somebody's meltdown,
11:23
Speaker 3: even though it's totally valid and there's lots of messaging there,
11:28
Speaker 3: our society goes, you're inconvenient for me, you're not keeping
11:31
Speaker 3: up with capitalism, with the patriarchy, with production. Shut that
11:35
Speaker 3: shit down unless you're making money.
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Speaker 1: Now we have this new fear response, I call it
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Speaker 1: silent anger that I see amongst some of my friends
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Speaker 1: who have partners, where all of a sudden, like everything's
11:49
Speaker 1: fine until the misogynist in the room has felt a
11:54
Speaker 1: thing and now he's silently seething at us, And I'm like,
11:58
Speaker 1: that's a rip Lagoilent anger is scarier to me than
12:02
Speaker 1: if he had just told us I need to walk
12:04
Speaker 1: away from you assholes and walked away, because that's more
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Speaker 1: coping than just sitting there thinking of all of the
12:10
Speaker 1: way because when I see it happen, my your response
12:14
Speaker 1: is to go, oh, he's thinking of all of the
12:16
Speaker 1: ways to remove us from the path like the planet
12:20
Speaker 1: because he's feeling shame.
12:22
Speaker 3: Yes, there's a great conversation that Brenee was having around
12:26
Speaker 3: a lot of the social justice stuff that was happening
12:29
Speaker 3: around the time of George Floyd's murder, and she was
12:33
Speaker 3: talking about how there's a difference between.
12:36
Speaker 2: Being shamed, being being shamed.
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Speaker 3: And feeling shame, and this is such a perfect example.
12:44
Speaker 3: So what I would say to that individual, no matter
12:46
Speaker 3: who they are, is that is an indication of emotional
12:52
Speaker 3: immaturity either way, whether they went fight and stormed off
12:57
Speaker 3: and got really loud and combative, or or they just
13:00
Speaker 3: silently didn't do anything and just stewed or completely froze
13:05
Speaker 3: and didn't know what to do, or fawning has been
13:10
Speaker 3: sort of the modern iteration of that is people pleasing, right, So,
13:15
Speaker 3: no matter what that person is embodying, if they are
13:19
Speaker 3: not able to understand what's happening for them emotionally, And
13:23
Speaker 3: we do a massive disservice to those who identify as
13:26
Speaker 3: male in our culture because we essentially tell them shut
13:30
Speaker 3: off an entire part of who you are as soon
13:32
Speaker 3: as you hit like twelve years old, then you zero
13:37
Speaker 3: feminine qualities. We don't want to see any of that bullshit.
13:40
Speaker 3: So for a lot of men who are really incredibly
13:43
Speaker 3: deep feelers, they've been given zero resources on not only
13:49
Speaker 3: zero resources on how to use it, but then an
13:51
Speaker 3: extreme amount of demonizing if they don't quote be a man.
13:58
Speaker 2: Right.
13:58
Speaker 3: So we've got all these we do it to women,
14:00
Speaker 3: to we do it to everybody. We send all these
14:03
Speaker 3: mixed messages. But I think emotional intelligence this is what
14:09
Speaker 3: this is all about, the same concept of whether it's anger,
14:12
Speaker 3: whether it's guilt what you were talking about earlier, like
14:15
Speaker 3: feeling a sense of guilt.
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Speaker 2: That is a message, and we have to unpack.
14:20
Speaker 3: It and recognize is this really the appropriate label? Like
14:27
Speaker 3: with guilt, for example, a lot of times we will
14:31
Speaker 3: say things like I feel guilty or I feel bad
14:35
Speaker 3: when we've done nothing wrong, When we've done nothing wrong
14:39
Speaker 3: according to us.
14:40
Speaker 2: According to our own moral compass.
14:43
Speaker 3: So I Obviously, I have a very very different belief
14:47
Speaker 3: system than my mom. For example, So if I speak
14:50
Speaker 3: up and say something that's really true for me in
14:53
Speaker 3: a really kind, loving way, but it's in direct opposition
14:56
Speaker 3: to what she believes, she's going to not agree with me. Right,
15:02
Speaker 3: But that doesn't mean I need to feel bad or
15:05
Speaker 3: quote guilty what I'm feeling. A more suitable moniker or
15:11
Speaker 3: label would be I feel uncomfortable, I feel compassion, I
15:16
Speaker 3: feel concerned, I feel obligated, I feel love, I feel empathy.
15:24
Speaker 3: I've been in situations like that where she's been in,
15:27
Speaker 3: you know, like my goodness, that's so difficult. So let's
15:30
Speaker 3: stop taking on the things that are not ours to
15:33
Speaker 3: take on.
15:34
Speaker 2: Right. But all of this comes down to emotional intelligence.
15:37
Speaker 2: I mean it really does. Now that's really.
15:39
Speaker 1: Helpful because when I am faced with a parent or
15:43
Speaker 1: an adult figure in my life who is going off
15:47
Speaker 1: the rails about anything and everything that I find to
15:50
Speaker 1: be just like a human. Right, we'll throw out healthcare,
15:59
Speaker 1: what's the term? I'm looking for universal health care? And
16:03
Speaker 1: people and people want to look at me and then
16:06
Speaker 1: tell me I just My favorite response is to just
16:09
Speaker 1: get so fucking confused that a person who I love
16:13
Speaker 1: doesn't believe that everyone deserves medicine, And I'm like, I'm,
16:17
Speaker 1: how is it that I'm I'm the person who is like, well, no,
16:21
Speaker 1: I just think that if everyone gets COVID, everyone gets
16:24
Speaker 1: COVID medicine. I don't understand. And so that's my favorite
16:29
Speaker 1: response is to just truly get really confused and then
16:33
Speaker 1: try to grapple with like how that could be, Like
16:36
Speaker 1: it's a control thing where it's like, okay, well, let's
16:39
Speaker 1: take all of the list of reasons why this person
16:43
Speaker 1: might feel that way. And I find a lot of
16:45
Speaker 1: people myself included, doing that in relationships where it's like
16:52
Speaker 1: you still have to convince yourself, like even if they're
16:55
Speaker 1: mistreating me, or even if they believe things that I
16:58
Speaker 1: think are off the wall, or even if I'm getting abused,
17:02
Speaker 1: teated on, or all of it. Now, my fair response
17:05
Speaker 1: is to feel like, but this person gets to be
17:07
Speaker 1: in my life, and here are all of the reasons why,
17:10
Speaker 1: and here are all of the reasons why this person
17:12
Speaker 1: might be mistreating me. And it's so much energy, it's
17:17
Speaker 1: so much and so much text messaging to other people
17:20
Speaker 1: in all caps, like this is what they said today.
17:24
Speaker 2: Right, right.
17:25
Speaker 3: So one of the things that I talk about all
17:28
Speaker 3: the time is how a lot of times we will
17:32
Speaker 3: speak up, but we speak up to the wrong person.
17:35
Speaker 3: So we go we're super pissed about something that our
17:38
Speaker 3: mom said, but we don't say something to her. We
17:40
Speaker 3: actually go tell our best friend. And that is one
17:43
Speaker 3: of the best places to excavate for boundaries that might
17:46
Speaker 3: need to be established. Is is there anything that I've
17:49
Speaker 3: been chronically and consistently complaining about that I have not
17:53
Speaker 3: addressed with the actual people involved right when I'm not
17:57
Speaker 3: getting that sense from you. But that is a thing
18:00
Speaker 3: that I think everybody needs to check themselves on, because
18:03
Speaker 3: there's this rampant diagnostic tool out there right now of saying, oh,
18:08
Speaker 3: you're toxic, and you're toxic and you're a narcissist and
18:10
Speaker 3: you're a narcissist and you have this, and it's like,
18:13
Speaker 3: are they or have you just labeled them that? And
18:17
Speaker 3: run the fuck away with a flight response? Right, Let
18:21
Speaker 3: me just fucking run away, and then I can just
18:24
Speaker 3: label you as toxic, not address any of the stuff
18:27
Speaker 3: that I really need to address, and then just make
18:30
Speaker 3: myself a perpetual victim and you the perpetual villain, and
18:34
Speaker 3: then I don't have to grow at all. So it's
18:36
Speaker 3: something to be aware of. It doesn't mean that they
18:40
Speaker 3: aren't behaving poorly or that there isn't stuff that they need.
18:43
Speaker 2: To own or acknowledge.
18:45
Speaker 3: But if you have not even given them the opportunity
18:48
Speaker 3: to be what you need, that is on you. So
18:53
Speaker 3: one of the other ways that you know kind of
18:56
Speaker 3: what you're talking about with these various relationships, this is
19:00
Speaker 3: huge for the fawn response. So, and this is the
19:05
Speaker 3: one that I think is really really important because it
19:08
Speaker 3: has so much nuance. The modern iteration of the fawn
19:13
Speaker 3: response is people pleasing is making sure that everybody else
19:18
Speaker 3: is okay so that I can be okay. So remember,
19:21
Speaker 3: if we're trying to Playcate, that mountain lion going here,
19:23
Speaker 3: kitty kitt, kitty kitty, we're doing the exact same thing
19:26
Speaker 3: now with fucking Audrey and accounting because we're afraid that
19:30
Speaker 3: she's going to write us up if we don't get
19:33
Speaker 3: our report in at the right time, right, So we
19:36
Speaker 3: play Kate and we people please to self preserve. The
19:41
Speaker 3: reason why I think people pleasing is so incredibly important
19:44
Speaker 3: to unpack here is it also gets demonized when sometimes
19:49
Speaker 3: it is actually what will keep you safe. So if
19:53
Speaker 3: we're talking about partnerships where there is severe abuse, domestic violence,
19:59
Speaker 3: even emotional and verbal abuse, the way that I encourage
20:03
Speaker 3: people to communicate in those relationships are very, very different,
20:07
Speaker 3: because we are a lot of times in those situations
20:10
Speaker 3: you are actually in danger. So calling forth any of
20:16
Speaker 3: these responses makes a shit ton of sense because you're
20:20
Speaker 3: just trying to take care of yourself, So it could
20:23
Speaker 3: be the best tool to placate and walk on eggshales
20:28
Speaker 3: so that somebody doesn't physically harm you. Right, So the
20:32
Speaker 3: example I use is I identify as queer. Obviously I
20:37
Speaker 3: feel very very strongly about speaking up and having a
20:39
Speaker 3: voice and being open and honest about that stuff. However,
20:44
Speaker 3: if I'm in a situation where it's clearly not queer
20:49
Speaker 3: friendly and I could physically get hurt, that's probably not
20:53
Speaker 3: the time for me to get up on my soapbox
20:56
Speaker 3: and go off about trans writes. Right, my efforts could
21:03
Speaker 3: probably be utilized in other ways more powerfully. So I
21:07
Speaker 3: think it's important that we recognize that it's not that
21:10
Speaker 3: people pleasing is always bad. We have to look for
21:13
Speaker 3: the nuance I would say a majority of the time, however,
21:17
Speaker 3: we're not actually in danger. We simply just need to
21:21
Speaker 3: learn that we will survive speaking up for ourselves. You know,
21:27
Speaker 3: we will survive if somebody doesn't like us and put
21:31
Speaker 3: that on a T shirt. But it doesn't feel like that, no,
21:36
Speaker 3: and we've been made to not feel like that. I
21:39
Speaker 3: think of all of the ways that we've been made
21:41
Speaker 3: to feel like our survival is directly connected to how
21:45
Speaker 3: we're making the other people in the room feel, like
21:48
Speaker 3: performance reviews at jobs, where it's one person's perspective on
21:53
Speaker 3: the work that you're doing and you're being put on trial,
21:57
Speaker 3: and all of a sudden, it's like, well, if you
22:00
Speaker 3: really think that my work sucks, now that's the way
22:04
Speaker 3: that I get food or I pay rent or whatever.
22:06
Speaker 3: So now I have changed my behavior before in jobs
22:10
Speaker 3: just to meet a toxic employer's like ego needs, Like, okay,
22:15
Speaker 3: I will follows to your ego.
22:18
Speaker 1: I will be quiet when you need me to be quiet.
22:20
Speaker 1: I will be a workhorse when you need me to
22:23
Speaker 1: be a workhorse. And if someone points out that I'm
22:27
Speaker 1: being a little good workhorse and I'm working very hard,
22:30
Speaker 1: I will make sure to direct that all to you
22:32
Speaker 1: my everyday inspiration.
22:35
Speaker 3: Right, Because here's the deal. Women, those who identify as
22:42
Speaker 3: women or fem presenting, especially if you have other marginalized identities,
22:48
Speaker 3: you have been the ones fighting the goddamn fights. It's
22:51
Speaker 3: been the queer individuals, it's been the black and brown folks,
22:55
Speaker 3: it's been the indigenous population, it's been those with disabilities.
22:59
Speaker 2: They are the ones out there paving the fucking way.
23:02
Speaker 3: So if there are times when you have to tap
23:06
Speaker 3: out as like the beacon of truth to self preserve,
23:11
Speaker 3: fucking do it right. But let's also not get it
23:16
Speaker 3: twisted about what we're doing. So can we all be
23:19
Speaker 3: in Aaron Brockovic Sure, is there a cost to that, absolutely,
23:24
Speaker 3: and that we don't all have to be the hero.
23:27
Speaker 3: What we do need to do, though, is analyze each
23:30
Speaker 3: of those situations. So, for you, what you just shared
23:33
Speaker 3: that was a very specific choice. I'm going to curb
23:37
Speaker 3: my behavior for me in service of me, to make
23:41
Speaker 3: my job easier, to fly under the radar, to not
23:44
Speaker 3: get in trouble. That is very different than I need
23:48
Speaker 3: to placate and please this person so that they approve
23:52
Speaker 3: of me, so that they think I'm enough, so that
23:55
Speaker 3: I can believe that I'm enough. No, no, no, those
23:58
Speaker 3: are two very different motivators, right. One is self preservation
24:02
Speaker 3: and one is I need you to like me in
24:04
Speaker 3: order to be valuable.
24:05
Speaker 1: That makes me feel so much better because when you're
24:08
Speaker 1: in a moment of self preserving and your curbing your
24:11
Speaker 1: behavior to match some egotistical man, it makes you feel
24:15
Speaker 1: like you're playing right into the patriarchy's hand.
24:18
Speaker 2: Leg.
24:18
Speaker 1: Well, I guess I'll go get my poodle skirt and
24:20
Speaker 1: my milkshake and I will just be a good little
24:24
Speaker 1: housewife of the office, because like that's how I built
24:27
Speaker 1: the entire time. Like, ugh, I'm just losing the game
24:30
Speaker 1: when I'm actually playing the game. And I think when
24:34
Speaker 1: it comes to things like, you know, we have so
24:37
Speaker 1: many things that are like trendy to be wrong right now,
24:40
Speaker 1: like not sticking up for yourself in a workplace, or
24:45
Speaker 1: fast fashion comes to mind, and I see all of
24:47
Speaker 1: these other perspectives when it's like, sure, fast fashion is
24:51
Speaker 1: bad and it's destroying our environment, but we also don't
24:55
Speaker 1: pay people enough to have sustainable clothing. So sustainable clothing
25:01
Speaker 1: costs sometimes triple of what fast past fashion would be.
25:05
Speaker 1: And it's really great that you have the privilege to
25:07
Speaker 1: care about that. I have to take my ass down
25:10
Speaker 1: to Walmart. That's what I can afford.
25:12
Speaker 2: That's right.
25:13
Speaker 3: And so there are what's so important for us to
25:17
Speaker 3: look at is that there is nuance that there. It
25:21
Speaker 3: can't be fuck fear at all costs. It's like, no,
25:24
Speaker 3: sometimes fear is there so that we don't hurt ourselves,
25:29
Speaker 3: you know. In fact, I believe that there is only
25:32
Speaker 3: one documented case of a woman who did not possess
25:37
Speaker 3: a fear response, and it was unbelievably dangerous. If I
25:41
Speaker 3: if I can find it, I'll send it over to you.
25:42
Speaker 3: It was chronicled on an MPR broadcast and she would
25:46
Speaker 3: just fucking walk into the street like she just there
25:49
Speaker 3: was no sense of any type of danger. And that's
25:53
Speaker 3: such a small example, but where she had to really
25:56
Speaker 3: learn like that's not safe, that's not safe, and what
25:58
Speaker 3: that really meant when she had zero or ow emotional
26:01
Speaker 3: response to it. So the tricky thing about fear is
26:04
Speaker 3: it's going to show up when you're onto something, when
26:07
Speaker 3: it's like, yes, this is a new business adventure, you know,
26:12
Speaker 3: and it'll show up when it's abort mission, get the
26:14
Speaker 3: fuck out of there and So that's where discernment happens.
26:18
Speaker 2: That's where our.
26:20
Speaker 3: Personal development happens. Where we don't put a blanket statement
26:24
Speaker 3: of like people pleasing is always bad, perfectionism is always bad.
26:28
Speaker 3: Onto something that it's going to change each time. And
26:32
Speaker 3: that's why we have to have the scruples to analyze
26:37
Speaker 3: what's happening in this situation for Natalie, what's happening in
26:40
Speaker 3: this situation right now? For Amy, what is this fear
26:43
Speaker 3: really about? What is my gut telling me?
26:47
Speaker 2: Right?
26:47
Speaker 3: So all of this stuff is incredibly important to analyze.
26:51
Speaker 3: I think, especially in personal development, we want a one
26:54
Speaker 3: size fits all answer for every situation, like, okay, tell
26:58
Speaker 3: me what you always do, communication and boundaries, tell me
27:01
Speaker 3: what you always do, as far as self love, tell
27:03
Speaker 3: me what you always do as far as perfectionism. And
27:05
Speaker 3: that's not the case. I oftentimes will say it's called
27:08
Speaker 3: personal development for a reason because it's fucking personal and
27:12
Speaker 3: you have to work with it and you have to
27:15
Speaker 3: look for those those elements of nuance. But I would
27:19
Speaker 3: love to talk to you just briefly about the fight
27:22
Speaker 3: response and the freeze of response and those modern iterations too.
27:25
Speaker 1: Oh please do so.
27:27
Speaker 3: We've got fight is kind of morphed into anxiety. Fawn
27:31
Speaker 3: has morphed into people pleasing, and then we also have
27:34
Speaker 3: flight has now morphed into depression. So if you think
27:39
Speaker 3: about folks who do have a severe amount of depression
27:43
Speaker 3: most of the time, what are we doing. We're running away.
27:46
Speaker 3: We want to go to sleep, we want to flee.
27:49
Speaker 3: Let me just sleep forever, Let me zone out forever,
27:52
Speaker 3: let me just completely check.
27:53
Speaker 2: Out and run away.
27:56
Speaker 3: Now very similarly to that freeze, I would say these
27:59
Speaker 3: two are quite close.
28:01
Speaker 2: The modern iteration of freeze is procrastination.
28:05
Speaker 1: I was gonna guess that, ah, because I do it.
28:10
Speaker 3: Well if you think about it, I think that there
28:13
Speaker 3: are many reasons why we procrastinate. I don't think it's
28:16
Speaker 3: always directly related to fear. Sometimes I think it's just
28:21
Speaker 3: we procrastinate because labor is involved, and labor is exhausting,
28:26
Speaker 3: whether it's physical or emotional or anything.
28:28
Speaker 2: We're just like I don't but we're not necessarily scared
28:32
Speaker 2: of something. It's not a fear.
28:34
Speaker 3: So, but hello, perfectionists out there or recovering perfectionists have
28:40
Speaker 3: a very very close connection with procrastination. Why because we
28:45
Speaker 3: put shit off until it's flawless, and then that never happens,
28:49
Speaker 3: that never arrives. So I'm sure you've heard the quote
28:52
Speaker 3: like done is better than perfect, like just get something out.
28:55
Speaker 1: And you're a Capricorn, right, I am in a Libra rising,
28:59
Speaker 1: it's fucked up, Combo, I'm.
29:02
Speaker 3: A Taurus, and so I'm very similar with Capricorn in
29:05
Speaker 3: the like the control and the order, and I want
29:07
Speaker 3: to know exactly how everything goes and and really it
29:11
Speaker 3: has to be flawless, and I have to really step
29:13
Speaker 3: away and go like let go just done is better
29:17
Speaker 3: than perfect.
29:17
Speaker 2: Done is better.
29:18
Speaker 3: Perfect doesn't even exist. It doesn't really even exist. So
29:24
Speaker 3: those are things to think about. If you start to
29:27
Speaker 3: find yourself not taking action on something, if you are procrastinating,
29:32
Speaker 3: examine it for some fear. Am I afraid? Like let's
29:36
Speaker 3: say you're starting a new business venture, or you want
29:39
Speaker 3: to get back into the dating scene, or you want
29:42
Speaker 3: to go back to school, and you find yourself dragging
29:46
Speaker 3: your feet on filling out that application, or and you
29:50
Speaker 3: know that it's something you really want. That's a key. Okay,
29:54
Speaker 3: that's incredibly important because sometimes we drag our feet because
29:58
Speaker 3: there's a red fucking flag saying don't do it right.
30:01
Speaker 3: So as long as it's something that you really genuinely
30:04
Speaker 3: want and you're like, why can't I get out of
30:06
Speaker 3: my own way examine it?
30:08
Speaker 2: For fear? Am I afraid?
30:10
Speaker 3: Am I making up that something is going to happen
30:13
Speaker 3: because of this thing that I want to go after?
30:16
Speaker 2: And then we have something to work with. Otherwise we
30:19
Speaker 2: just are like, what's wrong with me? And we all
30:22
Speaker 2: know how well that works.
30:24
Speaker 1: No, it has always been one of my fear responses
30:27
Speaker 1: because you know, imposter syndrome is a lovely little partnership
30:32
Speaker 1: to our relationship to fear. And it'll just like you'll
30:36
Speaker 1: be sitting there and it'll be like, like, for example,
30:39
Speaker 1: I'm taking a comedy writing class and it's like, sit
30:42
Speaker 1: down and write your five jokes, Nambley. And it's like, oh,
30:45
Speaker 1: I'm not feeling funny today. Well you got to write
30:48
Speaker 1: five a day, Nambley. But my soul just feels like unfunny,
30:53
Speaker 1: and you're just like pushing it up and pushing it off.
30:56
Speaker 1: And I remember the first time that I made my
30:59
Speaker 1: teach your laugh and then I just texted a bunch
31:01
Speaker 1: of people like I don't have to change my entire personality.
31:04
Speaker 1: It turns out that I am funny, like y'all, we
31:09
Speaker 1: like we get to believe it now. One guy told me.
31:13
Speaker 2: And it was a guy, so we know, right, And
31:15
Speaker 2: it was like.
31:16
Speaker 1: A teacher figure, so like it's someone working in comedy,
31:19
Speaker 1: because isn't that always The thing is like we're always
31:22
Speaker 1: looking to these authority figures who probably didn't even want
31:26
Speaker 1: to be authority figures in our lives to be like
31:29
Speaker 1: I'm good, right, me good? Or am I bad? And
31:33
Speaker 1: I'll just go away if I'm bad?
31:35
Speaker 2: Well?
31:35
Speaker 3: And this is also I'm so glad that you brought
31:38
Speaker 3: this up because I think this is also a social
31:41
Speaker 3: hierarchy that we see and I know you talk a
31:45
Speaker 3: lot about it from like the male female perspective, but
31:48
Speaker 3: we see this sense of the people pleasing element, or
31:53
Speaker 3: let's keep these groups of folks in fear so we
31:57
Speaker 3: can keep them oppressed. So if we look at even
32:00
Speaker 3: how women historically have been pitted against one another, right,
32:07
Speaker 3: the poor population, no matter what color you are, has
32:11
Speaker 3: been pitted against one another instead of fighting the real opposition. Right,
32:17
Speaker 3: if we can in fight, if we can keep women
32:20
Speaker 3: hating each other and slut shaming or body shaming each other,
32:24
Speaker 3: or parents shaming all of that, then they won't see
32:28
Speaker 3: that they actually need to be in fucking power instead
32:32
Speaker 3: of all of these.
32:33
Speaker 2: Men or share power.
32:35
Speaker 3: Right, So I think it's an important it's an important
32:39
Speaker 3: aspect to look up.
32:41
Speaker 1: No, it's always fascinating to me to watch inner group
32:44
Speaker 1: conflict and how that plays a part into what are
32:48
Speaker 1: we seen in the news currently, What are we seeing
32:50
Speaker 1: in the media. Who aren't we seeing in the media
32:53
Speaker 1: and in the news, who's being denied rights right of us?
33:00
Speaker 1: And we're like, eh, right now, it's it's very interesting
33:06
Speaker 1: looking at how everyone is going to respond to drag
33:10
Speaker 1: bands and the trans community quickly and frighteningly so losing
33:16
Speaker 1: rights and they know that if they uplift just a
33:21
Speaker 1: small group of privileged people within the lgbtq AI plus
33:26
Speaker 1: community while also just like underhandedly like taking like first
33:31
Speaker 1: it starts with drag, then it's gender affirming care, then
33:36
Speaker 1: it's gay marriage, then it's inter racial marriage. Then it's
33:40
Speaker 1: arranged marriages sanctioned by some dude who believes he knows better.
33:45
Speaker 1: Then it's a one man man can have five wives
33:51
Speaker 1: because it's helpful to him or whatever, and it just spirals.
33:55
Speaker 2: Meanwhile, what we're supposed to be worried about. Is that
33:59
Speaker 2: if we let gay people marry, then now you're gonna
34:02
Speaker 2: want to marry your car and you're gonna want to
34:04
Speaker 2: marry And I'm like it. But it hasn't escalated though,
34:09
Speaker 2: Like it wasn't. That wasn't the thing.
34:11
Speaker 1: Also, I grew up in nineties and early two thousands TLC.
34:16
Speaker 1: They had an entire show dedicated to people who like
34:19
Speaker 1: wanted to marry a wall in Ireland, and those people
34:23
Speaker 1: were doing okay, And it's none of our.
34:25
Speaker 3: Business exactly exactly, well, I could, I could certainly go
34:31
Speaker 3: off on a tangent here, but I think it's important
34:35
Speaker 3: to recognize the the inflicted societal fears that we have.
34:43
Speaker 3: So for example, a huge one that is a product
34:49
Speaker 3: of misogynistic culture is how much fear we have with
34:54
Speaker 3: our bodies as women. We go, oh my gosh, fat
34:58
Speaker 3: phobia is I can not have a body like X,
35:02
Speaker 3: Y or Z, because that means I'm not accepted to
35:06
Speaker 3: the society and the culture.
35:08
Speaker 2: But this is not anything new.
35:09
Speaker 3: Like if we think about even Maslow's hierarchy of needs,
35:13
Speaker 3: for example, one of our primitive human needs is for
35:18
Speaker 3: a sense of belonging, like we are wired for connection.
35:22
Speaker 3: We need to belong to a group in order to survive,
35:25
Speaker 3: and that stems from our ancestors, where that was really
35:28
Speaker 3: quite true, like you couldn't just be some solo person
35:31
Speaker 3: out there in the wilderness, like you would die. You
35:34
Speaker 3: needed a group. So we still have those fear elements present,
35:39
Speaker 3: but they're showing up in a different way of now
35:43
Speaker 3: I'm afraid of what if I'm in this size of
35:46
Speaker 3: a body, or what if I'm this age and I'm
35:50
Speaker 3: not partnered right like, because historically men gave us our
35:54
Speaker 3: worth and if you weren't married, then what good are
35:59
Speaker 3: you if you're not proper? And so we still see
36:01
Speaker 3: a lot of old remnants of that being really the case,
36:06
Speaker 3: and we're seeing a little going backwards a bit too.
36:09
Speaker 1: Oh well, I love to remind people through the show
36:13
Speaker 1: and three just conversations that we were raised by women
36:16
Speaker 1: who were either the women who couldn't own property or
36:20
Speaker 1: were raised by women who couldn't own property. Like it's
36:24
Speaker 1: not like I'm closer to that than I am to
36:27
Speaker 1: that stupid little Kevin Bacon game that we play with,
36:31
Speaker 1: Like we like to think of things in like hundreds
36:34
Speaker 1: of years, and it's like women haven't even had the
36:36
Speaker 1: right to vote for two hundred years.
36:39
Speaker 3: Yes, I mean, I'm I'll be forty four next month.
36:42
Speaker 3: My mom couldn't buy a house without my dad. She
36:45
Speaker 3: couldn't get a credit card without my dad, And you know,
36:48
Speaker 3: like there there's that's in my lifetime.
36:51
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
36:52
Speaker 3: That's like when I was born, my mom needed him to,
36:57
Speaker 3: you know, take care of It's just it's appssolutely mind blowing.
37:00
Speaker 3: And it's even worse in communities of color, you know,
37:06
Speaker 3: it's dramatically worse.
37:07
Speaker 2: So yeah, I can, I can get really worked up
37:11
Speaker 2: with that. But okay, let let's talk about then what
37:15
Speaker 2: the fuck do we do about this? Right?
37:16
Speaker 3: That's one of my questions, because we can complain all
37:20
Speaker 3: day and that does feel really good. Like I was
37:22
Speaker 3: mentioning earlier, if we get to be the victim and blame, blame, blame,
37:26
Speaker 3: then we get to just kind of sit here and
37:27
Speaker 3: be pissed.
37:29
Speaker 2: But what are the actions?
37:30
Speaker 3: Right is it to say, oh no, I'm not oppressed
37:33
Speaker 3: or oh no, I'm not having evoking this fear response
37:36
Speaker 3: all the time. No, that's true, and what do we need?
37:41
Speaker 3: What is within my power and My perspective is one
37:44
Speaker 3: of there's our task at hand that's nuclear and that
37:48
Speaker 3: is personal, and then there's the task at hand that
37:52
Speaker 3: is communal and societal. So when when we are dealing
37:58
Speaker 3: with our own fear, our own oppression, our own opposition,
38:00
Speaker 3: our own stress, the only option we have is to
38:04
Speaker 3: call upon ourselves like that, no matter who you are,
38:09
Speaker 3: no matter what your situation is, does it mean that
38:13
Speaker 3: everything is surmountable?
38:14
Speaker 2: Yes? Does it mean that that's easy? Fuck?
38:16
Speaker 1: No.
38:18
Speaker 3: And so it's sort of like if you've ever seen
38:20
Speaker 3: that illustration of two people that are about to run
38:25
Speaker 3: on a racetrack, and there's this man on one side
38:28
Speaker 3: and he has no obstacles in front of him, and
38:30
Speaker 3: then you see a woman of color on the right side,
38:34
Speaker 3: and in front of her are all these fucking obstacles.
38:38
Speaker 2: So culturally, what we have to do. Societally, what we
38:42
Speaker 2: have to do is use our voices and use our
38:45
Speaker 2: vote and use our influence to get out there and
38:48
Speaker 2: remove those fucking obstacles.
38:50
Speaker 3: Right as a community, we need to remove those. As
38:54
Speaker 3: that woman and that individual, all she has in that moment,
38:58
Speaker 3: no matter how unfair it is, is to call upon
39:01
Speaker 3: her own internal power and her own strength. So as
39:05
Speaker 3: unfair as that is that we don't have a system
39:08
Speaker 3: that supports us, I still feel like it is a
39:10
Speaker 3: fucking act of resistance to say I matter, my voice matters.
39:17
Speaker 3: You are going to hear me. I am going to
39:19
Speaker 3: speak up. I am going to take up space, both
39:23
Speaker 3: emotionally and fucking physically. And that right there is what is.
39:29
Speaker 2: Going to change change our culture and change our ability.
39:33
Speaker 3: So even if you are like, gosh, I just I
39:37
Speaker 3: don't like myself for I feel like I'm such an imposter,
39:40
Speaker 3: hear me when I tell you, loving yourself and cultivating
39:44
Speaker 3: that relationship with yourself is the fiercest act of resistance
39:47
Speaker 3: that you can utilize.
39:49
Speaker 1: Hell yeah, one of the most recent fear responses I've seen.
39:54
Speaker 1: I have eras tour tickets for Taylor Swift. So that's
39:58
Speaker 1: the only thing that's popping up on my feet recently.
40:02
Speaker 1: And I used to get a lot of judgment for
40:04
Speaker 1: being a mild to Taylor Swift fan, not even to
40:08
Speaker 1: the obsession that I'm currently at. And it all came
40:12
Speaker 1: down to, well, Taylor's not enough when it comes to
40:16
Speaker 1: using her platform to make societal change. Well, and then
40:22
Speaker 1: and I almost sent it to all of the haters.
40:25
Speaker 1: I saw this video of her arguing with her male
40:29
Speaker 1: record executives because she had a line on the song
40:32
Speaker 1: that was like fuck the patriarchy. It was literally like
40:35
Speaker 1: I dropped my key chain that says fuck the patriarchy
40:38
Speaker 1: on it, and they were like, you can't, you'll lose.
40:41
Speaker 1: So we're all just losing our jobs. And she's sobbing,
40:44
Speaker 1: and she's like, for years, you've told me that I'm
40:47
Speaker 1: not allowed to talk out against Trump, or I'm not
40:49
Speaker 1: allowed to tell people how I'm voting, or I'm not
40:52
Speaker 1: allowed to do this. I'm not allowed to do that.
40:54
Speaker 1: I'm just like supposed to stand on stage and sing
40:57
Speaker 1: my songs. And she goes and I'm tired of it
41:00
Speaker 1: because every day that I allowed myself to be that person,
41:04
Speaker 1: they took away more people's rights right in front of me.
41:08
Speaker 1: And she's come a hell of a long way when
41:10
Speaker 1: it comes to her activism and what she speaks out on.
41:14
Speaker 1: But I go back to that nuance thing where it's
41:16
Speaker 1: like it was really easy to be like, oh, little
41:19
Speaker 1: rich Taylor Swift doesn't do enough for us, But then
41:23
Speaker 1: she also had her own obstacles to do what we
41:27
Speaker 1: would have considered enough, and it's never enough at the
41:31
Speaker 1: end of the day. That's also how they keep us
41:33
Speaker 1: feeling like we're shackled to our own circumstances. They keep
41:39
Speaker 1: reiterating that no matter what, it's never going to be enough.
41:43
Speaker 1: All of this will still exist with or without you.
41:46
Speaker 1: But it's just it's one of those things where Taylor
41:50
Speaker 1: Swift myself yourself, those days when we're on it and
41:55
Speaker 1: we are singing a song that says fuck the patriarchy,
41:57
Speaker 1: or we're recording a moment of our show. We're part
42:01
Speaker 1: of the movement in the moment, and maybe we deserve credit,
42:04
Speaker 1: and maybe we're doing it because fuck your credit. We're
42:07
Speaker 1: doing it so our souls feel better.
42:09
Speaker 2: That's right.
42:10
Speaker 3: Well, it's not dissimilar to what women have felt forever
42:15
Speaker 3: of like a be sexy, bit not too sexy, or
42:17
Speaker 3: be maternal but not too maternal, and and we want
42:20
Speaker 3: you to be athletic, but not better than a man,
42:22
Speaker 3: and like we want you to be smart, but not
42:24
Speaker 3: smarter than a man.
42:24
Speaker 2: Like it's just so you're damned if you do, you're
42:27
Speaker 2: damned if you don't.
42:29
Speaker 3: And I really think that it is about us listening
42:35
Speaker 3: to our own internal compass about using our voice when
42:38
Speaker 3: it is safe, and also recognizing that your impact that
42:44
Speaker 3: you create in the world or how you choose to
42:47
Speaker 3: be an activist gets to be your call, right Like,
42:51
Speaker 3: if it is through your music, great, if it's through marching,
42:54
Speaker 3: if it's through donations, whatever. I think we all get
42:57
Speaker 3: to have our own perspective around what acts works for us.
43:01
Speaker 3: But here's what I will say. I think, by and large,
43:05
Speaker 3: the most impact that we can create are the difficult
43:09
Speaker 3: conversations with our inner circle who feels differently than us.
43:14
Speaker 3: That's courage because I'll tell you what, getting on a
43:18
Speaker 3: show like this and going off with somebody who feels
43:20
Speaker 3: very similarly to me is a shit ton different than
43:23
Speaker 3: sitting next to somebody at Thanksgiving dinner when I don't
43:27
Speaker 3: even believe in Thanksgiving anymore, and like, how do I
43:30
Speaker 3: have that conversation with somebody? Those are the conversations that
43:33
Speaker 3: needs to happen. We don't need to be screaming and
43:35
Speaker 3: yelling at celebrities to be, you know, using their platform more.
43:39
Speaker 3: If they can, great, But what conversations have you had
43:42
Speaker 3: with your parents, or your aunt and uncle or the
43:46
Speaker 3: kid at kid's parents that your kid plays with, right, Like,
43:52
Speaker 3: those are the conversations that are going to move the needle,
43:55
Speaker 3: not us screaming and yelling or doing a post on Instagram.
43:59
Speaker 1: Because we truly have the most control over the people
44:01
Speaker 1: who are either in our lives or on their way
44:05
Speaker 1: out of our lives and what we impact on them.
44:09
Speaker 1: So it's I mean, a conversation that I think of
44:13
Speaker 1: is like someone made a joke about women not leading
44:18
Speaker 1: leaving their husbands because like, well, what if he has money?
44:21
Speaker 1: And then another friend of mine was like, I hope
44:24
Speaker 1: you know that that's one of the number one ways
44:26
Speaker 1: that men abuse women and keep them in bad marriages
44:31
Speaker 1: is through financial abuse. And then I went, yeah, I've
44:33
Speaker 1: seen it in my family. And then that person learned
44:36
Speaker 1: something that day that it's not just like we're money
44:40
Speaker 1: hungry or we don't know how to feed ourselves or whatever.
44:43
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's literally we've been conditioned to feel like your
44:48
Speaker 1: money safer than our money, right, and you have more
44:52
Speaker 1: of it, just like just biologically you get more money.
44:57
Speaker 1: So yes, even number wise, it seems safer to us.
45:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it is.
45:06
Speaker 3: It's one of those things that I have to toe
45:09
Speaker 3: the line between righteous anger.
45:12
Speaker 2: Righteous rage, really.
45:16
Speaker 3: And historical rage right, feeling the generations of women who
45:23
Speaker 3: have gone through this stuff and feeling that so potently
45:29
Speaker 3: and not letting it rule my life. And that's a
45:33
Speaker 3: really fine line because it is everywhere. It is around
45:37
Speaker 3: every It's every time I walk to the car and
45:41
Speaker 3: have to have my pepper spray. Right, It's knowing that
45:46
Speaker 3: my husband will make more money than I would in
45:49
Speaker 3: the same situation, or that if we go into buy
45:52
Speaker 3: a car, that people are going to respect him more
45:54
Speaker 3: than they're going to respect me. It is fucking everywhere.
45:58
Speaker 3: But we also have to toe the line with how
46:01
Speaker 3: much we sink into that victimhood because it is real.
46:06
Speaker 3: It is not in your head. You aren't being shrill
46:10
Speaker 3: or naggy or it's real and it's not gonna fucking
46:15
Speaker 3: take us down, right. So the more we focus on
46:19
Speaker 3: the power as opposed to the problem, the faster we're
46:22
Speaker 3: going to get to our own enoughness.
46:24
Speaker 2: And be able to actually speak up for ourselves.
46:26
Speaker 1: There it is, there, it is, And I I love.
46:31
Speaker 1: I love to just walk through my day and righteous anger,
46:34
Speaker 1: because you know, anger gives you adrenaline. And sometimes I'm tired.
46:40
Speaker 3: Yes, but oh my god, put that in one of
46:43
Speaker 3: your comedy bits.
46:44
Speaker 1: Just you know, anger gives you adrenaline and sometimes I'm tired.
46:48
Speaker 2: Yes, but I have.
46:50
Speaker 1: Found that sometimes you knock people way over. I've knocked
46:53
Speaker 1: people way over and kind of on accident. Instead of screaming,
46:58
Speaker 1: just by stating something like it's a fact, like well, no, actually,
47:02
Speaker 1: this is what's happening, and then it's a declarative sentence
47:06
Speaker 1: and they're just looking at me and I go, yeah,
47:08
Speaker 1: women get abused financially by your by their husbands. Have
47:11
Speaker 1: you heard of it?
47:13
Speaker 2: And they're like uh oh.
47:15
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, no, because you've never And I think
47:19
Speaker 1: that's where some of it comes into. It's like you've
47:23
Speaker 1: never had to consider why women would stay in a
47:26
Speaker 1: marriage because of money. You've never had to, and good
47:29
Speaker 1: on you, but I have because I've had to watch
47:34
Speaker 1: it firsthand and understand that that's what's going on.
47:38
Speaker 3: I oftentimes I just come back to this as a
47:41
Speaker 3: statement of or sort of a.
47:46
Speaker 2: Method to live by.
47:47
Speaker 3: Is if there is a grouping of people, a body
47:51
Speaker 3: of people who I have some sort of similar identity,
47:54
Speaker 3: and they tell me that they've been experiencing pain in
47:58
Speaker 3: a way that I've never felt or never seen because
48:01
Speaker 3: I don't have the same identity. I just fucking believe them.
48:05
Speaker 3: Instead of trying to talk someone out of their pain
48:09
Speaker 3: or get mad at what that means about me, I
48:13
Speaker 3: just go, hey, babe, I see your pain. I'm so
48:18
Speaker 3: fucking sorry. It doesn't cost me a damn thing to
48:21
Speaker 3: just believe people's pain. You know, we don't have to
48:24
Speaker 3: talk them out of it.
48:26
Speaker 1: By Sacre has a great metaphor where and she'll use
48:29
Speaker 1: it for like anything, joy, fear, pain, bad days, whatever.
48:34
Speaker 1: It's not a pizza Like if one person is like
48:37
Speaker 1: I'm in pain today, that doesn't mean that there's like
48:40
Speaker 1: two slices of pain pizza left for you to eat
48:43
Speaker 1: that day.
48:44
Speaker 2: That's right.
48:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's a very like itchy capitalistic way to
48:51
Speaker 1: think about our feelings where it's like, well, only eight
48:54
Speaker 1: people get to feel joy today, so I guess I'm
48:56
Speaker 1: gonna knock you out, so I make sure that I'm
48:59
Speaker 1: one of those eight.
49:01
Speaker 3: But I mean think about how how much that that
49:04
Speaker 3: mentality that and it is absolutely capitalism that shapes how
49:11
Speaker 3: competitive we are and our comparison to one another. And
49:15
Speaker 3: I think there is also a biological, primitive reason why
49:19
Speaker 3: we compare. We're always comparing situations to examine threat again,
49:24
Speaker 3: coming back to that whole fear response thing of like,
49:27
Speaker 3: am I going to need to take care of myself
49:29
Speaker 3: in some way? So of course we're going to do that,
49:32
Speaker 3: but we're also looking at those things through a lens
49:35
Speaker 3: of scarcity, of like there's only one who can reach
49:38
Speaker 3: the top, or I need to knock people out. So
49:42
Speaker 3: I've started using the term equitable envy for when I
49:46
Speaker 3: am envious of somebody, because you know, the Dictionary definition
49:49
Speaker 3: of envy is that you want you to have it,
49:53
Speaker 3: you don't want them to have it, no matter what
49:55
Speaker 3: it is. So I want what you have and I
49:58
Speaker 3: don't want you to have it.
49:59
Speaker 2: I like the idea equitable envy, being like I want
50:02
Speaker 2: what you have, but I also want you to have
50:04
Speaker 2: it too.
50:04
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yes, I want us all to be able to
50:07
Speaker 1: go to the Eras tour at the end of the day.
50:10
Speaker 1: Fuck you ticket master. We all should have gotten to go. Yes, yes,
50:16
Speaker 1: we all should have gotten to go. Uh, we're coming
50:20
Speaker 1: up to about an hour, so I'm going to go
50:21
Speaker 1: ahead and transition us into our closing ceremony, if you will.
50:26
Speaker 1: That makes it sound like the hunger games, I volunteers tribute, right,
50:31
Speaker 1: but onto all the men I've tolerated before. We have
50:34
Speaker 1: two traditions. We end every episode with our big takeaway.
50:39
Speaker 1: In this case, it would be about our fear responses.
50:42
Speaker 1: And then we move forward with all of the tough
50:46
Speaker 1: stuff that we collected from this episode, and we choose
50:51
Speaker 1: to walk forward in positivity, and we release a manifestation
50:55
Speaker 1: into the universe that we hope happens for the people
50:59
Speaker 1: who are also living with feer responses and living in
51:02
Speaker 1: a world where Bill convince you that TikTok is the
51:05
Speaker 1: scariest thing on the planet. So you don't notice that
51:08
Speaker 1: they're going to start controlling what your Internet browsers go to. Right, Right,
51:15
Speaker 1: it's a ploy, always a ploy. They don't care about TikTok.
51:21
Speaker 1: China's had our stuff for ages.
51:24
Speaker 2: Right, it's a total wizard of oz.
51:27
Speaker 3: Like, don't pay no attention, Pay no attention to the
51:30
Speaker 3: man behind the cart right.
51:32
Speaker 1: Elon Musk is going to decide what you get to
51:34
Speaker 1: Google today. But what is a If you could just
51:38
Speaker 1: say a sentence a day to twenty people, this is
51:43
Speaker 1: the sentence that you would want them to learn.
51:46
Speaker 3: I would say, well, I have so many of them,
51:49
Speaker 3: and then I'm going like, well, which one actually relates
51:52
Speaker 3: best to fear? So I think it would actually be
51:55
Speaker 3: a question of when you find.
51:58
Speaker 2: Yourself in in.
52:00
Speaker 3: A fear response, no matter what that is, whether it's
52:03
Speaker 3: really an intense like oh my god, I'm scared, or
52:05
Speaker 3: it's anxiety, or you find yourself people pleasing is to
52:09
Speaker 3: ask yourself, am I actually in danger?
52:15
Speaker 2: Or is this just new and use that as sort of.
52:20
Speaker 3: The the even a journal prompt to start excavating behind
52:25
Speaker 3: what you're feeling so that you can get into a
52:27
Speaker 3: little bit of action.
52:29
Speaker 1: Yeah. I love that because it goes into partnership with
52:32
Speaker 1: what mine was going to be or is going to be.
52:35
Speaker 1: And it's learn to love your instinct. Again. There's so
52:40
Speaker 1: much that has made us feel like, oh my instinct
52:43
Speaker 1: is bad. That stove wasn't that hot. I'm being dramatic, yes,
52:49
Speaker 1: So just like learn to love your have a newfound,
52:54
Speaker 1: like sexy relationship with your instinct. How many times have
52:58
Speaker 1: you been in an encounter where your entire body has
53:01
Speaker 1: been like, we don't like this person and you're like, oh,
53:04
Speaker 1: maybe we do though, Like.
53:06
Speaker 3: Right, I call that the cognitive override it's where like
53:10
Speaker 3: we get so into the logic and the reason and
53:14
Speaker 3: the rationale instead of the gut. Don't follow our intuition,
53:18
Speaker 3: We breed it out out of our selves. And I
53:22
Speaker 3: could not agree with you more. And I mean, think
53:25
Speaker 3: about even intuitive eating. Intunive eating is like this, WHOA
53:30
Speaker 3: a mind blowing thing because we've been taught to ignore instinct,
53:35
Speaker 3: to ignore our intuition so much so that it's mind
53:38
Speaker 3: blowing to relearn it.
53:39
Speaker 2: And that's the.
53:40
Speaker 3: Case with all of this stuff that we're talking about,
53:42
Speaker 3: is listening to our anger, listening to our guilt, listening
53:45
Speaker 3: to our fear and analyzing it and looking for the
53:48
Speaker 3: messages behind it.
53:50
Speaker 1: After I stopped teaching and I got to be in
53:52
Speaker 1: a place where I could like pee, where whenever I wanted,
53:56
Speaker 1: I had to like relearn like, well do I have
53:59
Speaker 1: to like not do I have a tipee right now?
54:01
Speaker 1: But like is it reasonable for me to get up
54:03
Speaker 1: in pee right now? Because yes, teachers are constantly told
54:06
Speaker 1: you don't get to pee, like you don't get to
54:09
Speaker 1: do that?
54:11
Speaker 2: What? And that is such a metaphor for so many
54:15
Speaker 2: other situations in our culture right where it's like we
54:18
Speaker 2: eat at a certain time and we you don't hurt
54:21
Speaker 2: this person's feelings even though it is massive red flag central.
54:27
Speaker 3: No, we need to start re evaluating that. I love
54:30
Speaker 3: that as a takeaway.
54:30
Speaker 2: That so good.
54:31
Speaker 1: I used to have so much fear wrapped around, like
54:35
Speaker 1: when do I get to eat because of how much
54:37
Speaker 1: we schedule eating, And then I'm convinced that, like, well,
54:41
Speaker 1: if you don't eat between noon and two, then your
54:43
Speaker 1: body is just going to be out of whack for
54:45
Speaker 1: the rest of the day or whatever. And antidepressants and
54:49
Speaker 1: anti anxiety means have kind of curved that a little bit.
54:52
Speaker 1: What a what a thing? And I remember the first
54:56
Speaker 1: science I remember the first day where I like looked
54:58
Speaker 1: at a friend and I was like, I haven't thought
55:00
Speaker 1: about lunch and they were like okay, and I was like, no,
55:04
Speaker 1: I only think about lunch, Like I'm always anxious about
55:09
Speaker 1: whether or not lunch is going to happen because I
55:12
Speaker 1: know how much I hate feeling sluggish at three o'clock,
55:16
Speaker 1: Like I hate it. What would be your manifestation that
55:20
Speaker 1: you would like to offer to our listeners and the
55:23
Speaker 1: collective as a whole.
55:27
Speaker 2: I would love.
55:28
Speaker 3: A great manifestation for everybody to try on this as
55:32
Speaker 3: just a manifestation mantra of I am capable of speaking
55:39
Speaker 3: my truth with grace and kindness. I am capable of
55:44
Speaker 3: speaking my truth. And the reason why I think capable
55:47
Speaker 3: is important instead of just saying I speak my truth
55:53
Speaker 3: is it's a reminder that we have an innate ability.
55:57
Speaker 3: And it's really similar to what you were talking about
55:59
Speaker 3: with our insight, like we already have a compass, we
56:03
Speaker 3: have an internal knowing, we have our intuition, and it's
56:07
Speaker 3: about getting back in contact with that and trusting it right.
56:12
Speaker 2: So that would be my manifestation for you.
56:14
Speaker 3: I am capable of speaking my truth with grace and kindness.
56:18
Speaker 1: And I think I'm willing to go just because it's
56:20
Speaker 1: been such a big thing and I love that you
56:22
Speaker 1: brought it up. I hope we start giving one another
56:26
Speaker 1: grace when it comes to the nuance again, because I
56:29
Speaker 1: think that we've completely wiped that out of our vernacular,
56:35
Speaker 1: Like just knowing that there is nuance and that I
56:38
Speaker 1: can have grace when experiencing someone who is experiencing something
56:43
Speaker 1: differently than me, and I feel like it is very purposeful.
56:49
Speaker 1: So that there are a lot of loud people who
56:52
Speaker 1: have broken down nuance, and they are like, Nope, it's
56:55
Speaker 1: right or wrong, so you got to pick left or right?
57:00
Speaker 1: Come on, Nope. We live in a world of gray,
57:03
Speaker 1: and I think we should celebrate that more.
57:06
Speaker 3: Right, And I think probably both you and I can
57:09
Speaker 3: get lost in that black and white thinking. I know
57:13
Speaker 3: we have a lot of similarities just in want to
57:16
Speaker 3: control things and things, and so one of my little
57:18
Speaker 3: tools that I give to people is instead of gray,
57:22
Speaker 3: because obviously I love a lot of color and decoration
57:25
Speaker 3: and adornment. So I go, what's the pink option, what's
57:28
Speaker 3: the chartreuse option? What is the like baby baby aqua
57:33
Speaker 3: color that I have not looked at because I'm so
57:36
Speaker 3: locked into the black and white. It has to be
57:38
Speaker 3: one of let's get some fucking color in there. Let's
57:40
Speaker 3: get some super print. What's the purple of it all?
57:44
Speaker 3: That's right, A nice maroon and oh I love a
57:47
Speaker 3: maroon egg Amy, You are fantastic. I hope that every
57:54
Speaker 3: person that you come into contact with make sure to
57:56
Speaker 3: tell you that you are so insightful and you bring
57:59
Speaker 3: so much to everyone who talks to you. Oh yeah,
58:02
Speaker 3: thank you. I was just thinking the same thing. How
58:05
Speaker 3: I love your takeaways? I love your manifestation and such
58:09
Speaker 3: a great encapsulation of the things that we've talked about.
58:15
Speaker 3: So I'm so grateful to hang out with you, and
58:19
Speaker 3: you are brilliant in your own right, and I'm just
58:22
Speaker 3: I'm grateful.
58:23
Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much. Make sure to tell the
58:25
Speaker 1: tolerators and the listeners where they can find you.
58:28
Speaker 3: Sure, So, my little corner of the Internet is Amy
58:31
Speaker 3: Greensmith dot com and all of those names are spelled
58:36
Speaker 3: the very basic bitch way Amy, Amy at green without
58:42
Speaker 3: any and Smith like everyone else. And so that's where
58:46
Speaker 3: you can find me. That's sort of my hub. I
58:47
Speaker 3: have tons of freebies over there, some free hypnosis, some
58:52
Speaker 3: free workbooks. I've done almost five hundred episodes of my
58:56
Speaker 3: podcast for the last ten years, so tons of freebies
58:59
Speaker 3: over there. And then, like any self respecting gen x or,
59:03
Speaker 3: I hang out the most on Instagram, So you can
59:05
Speaker 3: find me over at hey, Amy Green Smith and that's
59:09
Speaker 3: my handle pretty much everywhere on social But yeah, come
59:12
Speaker 3: over to the site and get a bunch of freebies
59:15
Speaker 3: and come hang out.
59:17
Speaker 1: Go because Amy is like a style icon. I didn't
59:21
Speaker 1: tell you all that, but every time she looks on
59:24
Speaker 1: to talk about something work related. I'm like your glasses
59:27
Speaker 1: look like a monarch butterfly though, and I would like
59:30
Speaker 1: to voice.
59:31
Speaker 2: That thank you. I'll take it.
59:34
Speaker 1: I'll take it, And tolerators, you know the deal because
59:37
Speaker 1: I put a handy little commercial reminding you of all
59:40
Speaker 1: of our socials and the Patreon in all the ways
59:42
Speaker 1: to get at me with all of your needs. So
59:46
Speaker 1: thanks for being here, Thank you once for Amy for
59:49
Speaker 1: being our lovely guest. And remember, tolerators, you don't have
59:54
Speaker 1: to smile through anything you're tolerating, including a world that
59:58
Speaker 1: will hand you a fee her while they instead secretly
1:00:04
Speaker 1: uplift a different thing that you should be afraid of.
1:00:08
Speaker 1: Smiles are for joy