Latest / Hey Docs! / Leadership and Accountability in Your Practice with Cary Smith, Done Desk

Transcript

Leadership and Accountability in Your Practice with Cary Smith, Done Desk · Hey Docs!

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Hey Docs podcast with your host, Jill Allen. Today,
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: I am welcoming back Kerry Smith, CEO and co-founder of Dundesk.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Kerry works with orthodontic practices on training, compliance, and building
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: stronger teams, and he always brings a practical perspective to
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: the people side of practice ownership. For new and growing
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: practice owners, especially, leadership and team development can feel like
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: one more thing on an already very long list. But
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: the systems and expectations you establish early can make a
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: huge difference in how well your practice grows later. In
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: this episode, we are talking about building your leadership edge,
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: creating a sustainable practice, and getting real clear about the
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: talent you want around you from the beginning. So let's
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: jump in. And now a word from the sponsors who
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: make this podcast possible. Are you thinking about opening an
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: orthodontic practice? I know it's a big decision, but saving
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: 25% on the ADEC equipment you need to get started.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: That's an easy one. Because ADEC has a special program
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: called Smart Start designed to help you launch your first practice.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: You get up to 25% off your ADEC orthodontic equipment
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: and furniture. You also get complimentary services to help you
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: run and grow your business. And my favorite part, access
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: to the Smart Start pricing for two whole years after
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: you open your doors. That gives you flexibility to add
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: more chairs as your cash flow grows. It's pretty smart.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: As an orthodontist, you care about getting all the little
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: details right. And ADEC really got it right with this program.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: So if starting off with a big savings on ADEC
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: equipment sounds good to you, the ADEC Smart Start is
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: definitely worth a closer look. Just follow the link in
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: the show notes to learn more. Want a cleaner workflow
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: for orthodontic cases? Meet Clarity Solutions from Solventum, formerly 3M Healthcare.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: The Clarity portal puts aligners, digital bonding, and retainers in
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: a single streamlined platform. One workflow, fewer handoffs, and more
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: control for planning through retention. Simplify your next case. Reach
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: out to your local Solventum sales rep today or visit
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: us at go.solventum.com forward slash clarity. Again, that is go.solventum.com
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: forward slash clarity to learn more. Gary, I'm so excited
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: to have you back on Hey Docs. Thanks for being here.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: Thank you for having me once again.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes. All right. So for anyone who might not
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: have heard one of our previous conversations or caught one
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: of our other episodes together, can you just share a
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: quick little bit about your background and the work that
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: you are doing with Dundask and Dundask is doing with
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: our practices out there?
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: Okay, sure. Yeah, thanks, Jill. So I'm Kerry Smith, co-founder
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: and CEO of Dundesk. We're a software company primarily designed
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: to help practice owners manage risk. And the source of
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: the software came from my interactions as a clinical risk
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: manager working with dentists for over 20 years now. And
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: I just kept seeing the same problem that our doctors
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: and teams genuinely want to operate correctly. But the work
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: was scattered across different sources like binders, spreadsheets, emails, and
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: also mostly in the heads of employees, which is suspect
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: to turnover, right? So we built a software that organizes
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: all of that. And the idea being that we want
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: our practice owners to go home and not take work
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: with them. And we want them to go home and
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: know that things are done or at least the things
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: that need to get done or have a place that's
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: visible and actionable so they don't have to worry about
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: work when they're not at work and put the tools
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: down and walk away. And that's what we want for
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: our practice owners. So we built software, got 30,000 users now,
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: and it's going good. Things are working as intended.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: That's what I love to hear. And I just really
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: love what you guys are doing in our industry. I
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: think to your point, this back end side of the
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: business is never what anybody I believe when I talk
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: to doctors and they tell me about their dream of
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: opening a practice or getting started, it's never Oh, and
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: I can't wait to manage my OSHA. Or I can't
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: wait to manage all of the training that my team
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: members need to go through. I have never yet in
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: 20 years heard a doctor come to me and say
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: that's why they wanted to become a doctor. And yet
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: it's such a big part. of that side of our
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: business and being a CEO or of an owner of
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: a business is it ultimately lands on us as the
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: business owners to manage those different things and make sure
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: that we're compliant where we need to be. And so
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: I would love it, you know, as we jump in today,
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: I want you to just talk to docs about that.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: Because I get this a lot when that realization of,
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: oh my gosh, like this is a lot and I've
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: got to manage it all kind of hits. And whether
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: it's an established doctor that had a team member that
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: was managing it old school and now we're bringing it
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: into 2026 standards or a new doc that's like, really?
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: I got to do that? I got to do that
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: how often? So can you talk to us and maybe
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: encourage docs out there about what it looks like now
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: versus what it looked like in the past and where
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: we're going and what we need to be paying attention to. Okay.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: I'll take a swing at this. So let's just, we'll
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: just go deep here. We'll go super deep to the
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: core of the problem. The core of the problem is
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: as business owners, we don't train our people enough so
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: they can take on the load. So we end up
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: being the bottleneck. We end up being the bottleneck in
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: a lot of ways. And that bottleneck creates an internal
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: conflict to where you start thinking to yourself, I have
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: so much to do and I don't have enough time.
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: And you oftentimes can't quantify the how much you have
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: to do because you you're living out of your inbox
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: on your email, you know, on the daily basis, or
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: you see the stack of mail that you've left for
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: the car ride home. And when you get home, you're
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: doing groceries and you're also trying to sort through all
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: this mail. Those are just some weird examples, but the
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: cycle generally looks like this. You have conflict with yourself
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: because the people can't do the work without you or
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: the people aren't trained or you don't have a trust.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: That allows them to execute and know, you know, the
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: goal here isn't to remove you as a leader from
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: the business. The goal is, is to have your people
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: know when they need you as the leader. That's the issue.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: And I think a lot of owners. Especially new owners,
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: because you're usually with one treatment coordinator and one front
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: desk when you get started. And they have their first
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: couple of employees, but then you call them and they're
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: exasperated because it's like, you know, you're dividing by zero.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: I have too many things to do and I don't
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: have anyone here that can do it. Plus, I don't
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: know what I need to know. It's just this weird
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: temporary spot that you're in. You start to wonder, how
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: am I going to do all this? The best place
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: to start is just identify the things that you don't
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: like doing that cause you the most discomfort with your business.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: I think that's the first thing. You say, I really
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: hate doing this part of it, and it's really dragging
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: me down mojo-wise. Then you say, okay, well, who else
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: can do that work? Do I outsource it? Do I
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: hire somebody internally to do that work? Because if it's
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: killing you mentally, that's going to flow into everything else
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: you're going to do. And you're going to not really
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: enjoy the gift you've been given, which is helping people
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: get healthier. So I think that's the kind of the
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: place to start in a general roundabout sense is how
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: am I possibly going to do all of this? Well,
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: you're not, first of all, you're never going to be
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: able to do it all. Secondly, you're going to have
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: to do it all if you don't train people. Or
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: it's just not going to get done. And that is
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: really the core of where risk becomes prevalent in a
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: practice when we talk about how do we execute properly
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: and things get left behind, things get left undone, and
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: things that start to pop up like patient impact. employee impact, turnover,
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: like all those things. So that's just like a general
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: kind of macro level view of those interrelated concepts that
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: I just keep seeing from startup world. I want to
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: have a voice today to talk about it and just
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: really figure out how do we start that process to unwind?
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: And because what I want, I know you're the same way, Joe,
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: because we had breakfast in Colorado, I don't know, a
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: year ago. And we talked about this. And the thing is,
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: is there is nothing better than living a life that
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: this business can enable. That's what's really cool. When that
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: flips over and you're like, wow, I can make this
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: business do what I need it to do so I
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: can go live the life I want to live. That's
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: nirvana for me. I love that part. But it's like,
• 9:09
  Speaker 2: how then? It's easy to talk about. Talk's cheap. So
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: how do we do that? So that's what we're going
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: to talk about today. Yeah.
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I know. I'm sure you've read the book. It's
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: kind of this who not how principle, right? Who are
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: you going to put in place? What system, third party, whatever,
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: versus to your point, as a doctor, business owner, we
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: could figure out the how, but the how is so limited.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: You only have so much as one person to do it.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: And who do we put in that place to really
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: get us started? to have that time back to enjoy
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: why we're doing what we're doing as business owners.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, 100%. Yeah.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: So let's talk about that leadership edge, what that really
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: looks like when we're building that and why it's important
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: to kind of establish the discipline, the expectations, accountability. from
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: the beginning.
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: And I know this.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: Will still apply to doctors that are more established too,
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: because I think we can kind of get into our
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: own ruts as we're established as well. But especially for
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: our startup docs out there, how do we set these
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: principles in place and then go from there?
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So leadership edge. That's a good word. I like that.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: So the first concept in that is, is when I'm
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: working with startups, your startups specifically, I mean, they're not unique.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: I've helped start something like 800 offices. Right. So, I mean,
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: it's just like generally I'm with your people specifically in
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: the context of this podcast and our relationships. They come
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: in and they're like, okay, I like the concept of Dundas,
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: but I don't have time to mess with a software
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: for the disciplines I need to run a good business.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: But I don't really even have a business at the moment.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: So why would I need to do that? So the
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: question is, and I tell them, you don't. You don't
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: have to use the software. You don't even have to
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: have discipline to get started. You can just wing it.
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: And so there's that spectrum. But at some point... when
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: you have four, five, six employees, and it seems like
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: you're always trying to hire somebody and things are kind
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: of like out of control more than they are not,
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: then you'll look back and go, you know what? Why
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: didn't I have a handbook put together from day one?
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: You know, or, you know, there's certain things. So growth
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: doesn't cause problems. Growth just reveals the problems that you
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: already have. Right. And so when we talk about discipline.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: I try to coach all the doctors because when we
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: talk about risk management and compliance and all that, it's
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: generally mundane. I mean, it's not super exciting, like, you know,
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: marketing or interior design or anything else you guys talk
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: to them about. But the reality is, is that if
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: you're going to touch it from a process perspective, document
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: it and put it away and immortalize it. And that
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: way it's just as you go, that's a good thing.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: I need to put that someplace. That's a good thing.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: I need to put that someplace. And that someplace needs
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: to be visible to the employees so they can access
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: it and interact with it and set your expectations. And
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: so then you can hold them accountable because you can't
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: hold people accountable if you haven't set the right expectations, right?
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: And this is where this whole 90-day probation thing, I
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: think I've talked about this on literally every podcast we've done.
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: It's just 90-day probations is crap. It's a crap business practice.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: But I understand why doctors use it. They use it
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: because it's a risk management technique. for kind of backstopping
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: bad hires. The reality is that sometimes your internal processes
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: are so uncommunicated, if they're even documented, the person coming
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: in doesn't have a source of truth to lean on
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: to perform to because you're busy treating with patients. You
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: don't have a full-time training person to handhold people. So
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: they come into this probationary kind of negative feedback loop process.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: And I would say just flip that on its head
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: and become a 90-day development plan. And teach people over
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: the next 90 days. And that forces you as a
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: leader to build these disciplines and these expectations in terms
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: of training routines, the documentation rhythms, like these sorts of things.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: So you have it as a live thing. And every
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: time you hire somebody, you're like moving it into their
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: world in a real planned way. And that then shows
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: everyone else in the practice that their continued discipline is
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: very important because this person coming in is going to
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: need everybody else to survive correctly throughout the day. So
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: that way accountability doesn't feel like punishment or oversight or
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: some sort of negative thing. It means that people know
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: what success looks like and they have the resources to
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: achieve it or the training to lean on if they
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: don't really know and And they clearly understand how performance
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: will be measured. And you can't do that unless you're
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: a leader that starts off from the beginning or even
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: maybe restarts from today when you're listening to this. You know,
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: now's the right time to do pretty much everything. Just say, hey,
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: if there's one KPI I want to influence, like you're
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: working with Brad Pearson. Brad Pearson's here in San Antonio,
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: two locations, Pearson Saunders Orthodontics, badass organization. I've known Brad
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: since he was in the military. I was involved in
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: helping him get his practice started. He's got all these people.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: And he said, hey, I've engaged Jill to help optimize
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: some work processes. And I pulled him into his office.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: I said, why did this happen? you know, just to,
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: I've known him, I can speak freely with him, but
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: I said, why do you need Jill? Right. And he goes,
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: we lost oversight on that particular, whatever the thing was
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: you guys were working on. I forget what it was,
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: but he did say we lost oversight on that and
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: it crept out of scope. And then when we found it,
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: we were like, wow, how do we fix this? And
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: they called you guys to kind of come in and remediate.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: And it clearly started with some training. Like you tell
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: your people, this is what's happening. This is, you know, so,
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: You either address the issue early on systematically. You don't
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: have to do it all at once. It's like something
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: that as you come across it, you're like, I need
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: that to be in a disciplined place. And then as
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: time goes by, if you're not doing it, it'll surface
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: again somehow. And since you guys do with so many
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: startups and you're in that formative stage of leadership with
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: these people that I just really would love to highlight
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: the fact that come into it ownership with this disciplined
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: approach and don't rely on training from external sources that
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: your people have taken to really be the way your
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: business is going to run. And if you set those
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: expectations and you hold accountability very visible from the beginning,
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: then no one feels like they're being attacked when you
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: come in and go, look, there's variance here in your
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: performance versus where we want to be.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: And what that does, I think the last thing I'll
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: say is back to the first, the prologue here, or
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: the soliloquy, I forget the term, more or less. But
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: what that means is that when you go home and
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: when they go home, there's no worry, hopefully, about what
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: I need to do next. Like we just know what
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: we need to do. And we can go home, go
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: grocery shop, deal with the dogs and the kids and
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: all that, not worry about work, right? So I think
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: that's when you say leadership edge, that's where it starts.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: If I touch it as an owner, document it, put
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: it into my business so everyone knows what the success
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: factors look like.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I love the way you unpacked that. And I
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: kind of think of it and maybe run with this
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: or tell me, no, Jill, you're thinking about this wrong.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: But I feel like this is almost like setting up
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: an SOP, standard operating procedure, for something that we don't
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: really think about necessarily. a place in our practice where
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: an SOP would be, right? And I think especially in
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: younger practices where maybe doctors have never even been in
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: a position where they've worked in other practices where maybe
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: some of these systems have been in place, but they've
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: never actually been a part of the foundational piece of saying, well,
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: this is my expectation of this, or this is how
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: I really think about this. And you said something a
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: little earlier, which I think is so key is so
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: many times we hire team members that have been trained
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: up in somebody else's expectations. And they bring those expectations
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: along with them as ingrained in what they think this
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: is about. And a lot of times team members have
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: not worked in multiple practices. And so they think that, well,
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: I learned this somewhere else. So therefore, this is the
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: standard of the industry. Or this is, of course, what
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: my new employer is going to expect or think or do.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: And I think so many times it just kind of
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: sets us up for these expectations. tension points in a practice.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: And I'd love to hear what you think about that.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: And if I'm kind of on track or too simplistic
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: to say what we're talking about is to a point
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: in SOP, but it's so much more than that, but
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: yet it's a very simple way to think about it.
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're dead on. When you talk about standard operating procedures,
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: you know, how many are there? We've made training classes
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: on over 350 standard operating procedures for dental practice, right?
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: And these aren't like just a document that says, this
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: is how you take out the trash, right? It's basically,
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: you know, these are like 15 to 18 minute videos
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: on everything from how do we call the exterminator? Because
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: we have bugs down to how do we move a
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: patient from the chair to the front desk? And the
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: reason why we made so many of them was doctors
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: don't have time to make these things, so they can
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: just leverage ours. But the ideal SOP basically says, let
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: me explain to you what this process is. Let me
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: explain to you why it is important to do this correctly.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: And here are the KPIs that are influenced by you
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: doing this correctly. And then also the risk management guy.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, I said, well, what happens when this practice
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: breaks because of your inaction or your execution wasn't to
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: the standard that we have. This is what happens to
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: the rest of the practice that when you don't do
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: what you need to do, right? And, you know, to
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: the patient, to your peers. And so these SOPs are
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: really designed to like help these individuals understand I'm part
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: of a chain of instances and experiences and relationships. And
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: if I don't execute, the chain gets broken in some way.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: And we end up having, you know, the schedule gets
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: off track at the So I think you're right. The
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: key thing is it seems like a lot of content,
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: but you're already dealing with this information on a daily basis.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: You're already in it. Your people are probably neck deep
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: in all your standard operating procedures. And if you ask them, hey,
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: just write down exactly how you did that, that's the
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: start of it, right? And there's tons of tools. I mean,
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: we have AI now and ChatGPT, and we can make
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: anything we want to make in a few seconds, and
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: that can really help you build out what you want.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: But the main part of it is code. it is
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: is the way you want it done yeah and that
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: way it can be repeated through time no matter who
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: is doing the job right that's because we have turnover
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: we have the degradation of discipline and oversight through time
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: and we also have turnover so you have to contemplate
• 20:05
  Speaker 2: that piece of.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: It Yeah, yeah, exactly. And then I think to your
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: previous point, too, it then leads to real accountability. Because
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: I feel like if we cannot communicate well, what we
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: want as a business owner, and our expectation... is kind
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: of this generalized, well, they should just know. Well, they
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: aren't going to know. And if you don't have it
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: written down, and if they're going off of an expectation,
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: maybe of a previous employer or, you know, somebody else
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: and they're, well, this was okay in this other practice
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: I came from, why wouldn't this be okay in your practice?
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: Without that accountability, that final accountability piece, which is what
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: I I love so much about what you're talking about
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: here is it really gives us that really defined piece
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: to measure up against. And it's not just this really fluid, well,
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: the doctor's just in a bad mood today and this
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: doesn't really mean, mean much or whatnot. You know, we've
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: got it and we've got something really easy to measure against.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: A hundred percent. Yeah. When people hear this, they're like, oh,
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: this is great.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: Right. When?
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: Like, when am I going to do this work? Exactly.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that is the hard part.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: You know, so you mentioned the when and the who
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: and the how and those sorts of concepts. I think
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: as owners are hearing this or they're probably thinking in
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: their head, at least I am as an owner, like,
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: when the hell am I going to have time to
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: go do that? You know, when am I going to
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: get time to go do that?
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: And here's why you say that to yourself, because you
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: don't have someone on your team that can take it
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: for you. That's why you say that to yourself. And
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: then that moves into, who do I have around me?
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: Who are these people that I'm paying to hold my
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: license in high regard and enable the promise that my
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: good name and my logo and all this efforts put
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: forth to execute on? Who are these people? And are
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: they aligned with the values of what we want to
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: do in this practice? Or are these just mercenaries that
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: are temporarily here until they decide to go do something else, right? Yeah.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: And I think that's when you say, well, okay, Carrie, Jill,
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: I'm interested in how do I fix this stuff? You know,
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: you got to give it to someone to go help
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: you do it. You just can't do it on your own. Right.
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: And that's why I think you guys are awesome as
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: a frontline help. So I think the first step is,
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: is get help if you think it's going to help
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: and then start training people to take this stuff off
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: your plate. So then you can have accountability systems in
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: play that allow you to go, it's done. I'm good.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's taken care of.
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And I think we think about this again,
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: that leadership edge, if we're a startup or a younger
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: doctor or, We do have the time. We've got all
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: the time in the world to put the processes in place.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: The tricky part is when we, to your point, when
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: you get busier and you're bigger and you may have
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: lost team members and now you're coming at it going,
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: oh my gosh, you know what I thought I had
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: in place 10 years ago. is not in place right now,
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: 10 years into that. And I know you've said this before,
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: and we've talked about this, but thinking about it as, okay,
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: if I lost my entire team tomorrow, what do I
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: need to have in place to make sure that the
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: next person coming online is going to be able to
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: just jump right in and go? And that's a scary
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: and a hard thing to your point of, especially with
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: an established practice of, well, when do I have time
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: to do that? Or how do I go about that? Yeah.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: So it's a weird concept, you know, cause it doesn't
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: ever happen until it does. You know, I think, could
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: I lose my entire team tomorrow? And the answer is yes,
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: they could, they could all go, they could do something
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: or something could happen and it rarely happens. But I
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: guess the main other viewpoint in this is what happens
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: if I lost the three people that know the most
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: in my business or the three people that are the
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: most engaged in and caring about my business. And the
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: impact there is probably worse, I think, than losing everybody.
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: Cause there's, you know, now you still have people to
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: deal with. Like if you didn't, if you lost everybody,
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: you wouldn't have anybody to deal with. You're just now, okay, great.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: Now I got to go hire some people. But it's
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: just a mental exercise to say, could I survive the
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: loss of a key few people? Could I survive the loss?
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: And then it's not going to happen. So doctors don't
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: ever really pay attention to this part of it until
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: it happens to them. And then it's like emotionally, it's
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: a massive impact. I'm thinking of Dima Kalakesh here in
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: San Antonio, right? She had an amazing young lady at
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: the front desk. Like literally, she was the best front
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: desk person I think I could ever come in contact with.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: And that person decides she wants to move and get
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: married and start a new career. And that person leaves
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: the business. And devastating, right? It's like, how am I
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: ever going to find someone like that? But the worst
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: part about it was, it wasn't how am I going
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: to find someone like her, which they did. It was,
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: do I have a way to train them on everything
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: that person knew and held? Yes, because it was here,
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: not here. That's the gap, right? That's the gap. Yes.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: So then you're like, I'm a busy practice. Who's going
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: to do the training and how am I going to
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: get this person up to speed? And the loss of
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: any one person is mitigated by having a replacement strategy
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: already put in play. Working with a group that has
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: 80 locations and I asked them, I said, do you
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: have turnover? And they're like, yeah, we have turnover. Duh,
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: we're a big business. Everyone has turnover. And I said, well,
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: is that a risk for you? And they go, yeah,
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: it is. It's kind of holding us back from some
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: growth goals that we have. And I said, well, if
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: it's a risk for you, why don't you have a
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: strategy around losing people? And they're like, what do you mean?
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: And I said, well, if it was guaranteed you were
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: going to lose people and it was going to impact
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: your business results, wouldn't you put a strategy in play
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: to mitigate the loss of the person? You can't mitigate
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: the loss of the individual. Like they're going to go
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: do something else that's fine or performance rise or what
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: have you. But you can put a strategy in to
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: bring the next person up into that role as quickly
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: as possible so you don't lose any production or effectiveness
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: in the system that they hold. So that's just from
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: a startup angle because you and I work with a
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: lot of startups. You have lost your entire team. Let's
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: put it this way. You've lost your entire team and
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: now you're starting over, but you're really starting up. Yep.
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: I think that's when you can think, wow, okay, it
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: would make sense for me to like spend the extra
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: time and start doing this now, building my disciplines now.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: So when I do lose somebody, it's not so impactful
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: to me emotionally, to my business, to my patients and
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: to my other employees. Yeah.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: And now a word from the sponsors who make this
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: podcast possible. As a consultant, I work with orthodontic practices
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: every day. And Grayfinch is the platform I recommend without hesitation.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: It's the only all-in-one practice software built from the ground up,
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: not pieced together like the legacy systems. And now, with
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: AI built natively into the platform, it's streamlining the workflows
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: your team already relies on while opening up entirely new
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: ways to work faster and more efficiently than ever. Ready
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: to see it for yourself? Head to grayfinch.com forward slash
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: Jill Allen for a special discount exclusively for my listeners.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: I really, really love that concept. I'm just going to
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: say it again, and hopefully I wrote it down right.
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: Risk strategy around loss of employees. I love that because
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: probably one of the biggest reasons that we get brought
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: into established practices is is when a doctor has lost
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: a key team member who has had all the institutional
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: knowledge of the practice, and it's been held right up
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: here in that employee's brain, and it never got transferred
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: anywhere else. And now that employee has left, and there
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: is this major hole. So not only do we need
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: to now come in and build in the fundamentals of
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: that position again and build it back up, But I
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: think it's the perfect time to your point to say, okay,
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: I'm never going to be caught in this position again.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: And therefore, I need to build that risk strategy around
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: this position and every one of my other core positions
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: within the practice so that I can quickly get people
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: hired up. And I think you see this too, Carrie,
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: but I see this all the time now where gone
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: are the days where we would hire an employee and
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: they would be with our practice till a doctor retires.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: Now we're lucky if we've got a team member that's
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: with our practice for two to three years. So when
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: you think about, and this is why I think it's
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: so relevant that we're talking about this, It isn't just
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: that we've got this turnover. It's a reality that we've
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: got a turnover problem in our practices, but we really
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: are constantly, it's like doing the same thing over and
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: over and over again. And I love it if we
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: get an employee that stays over three years, but that's
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: more about a whole nother episode on building a career
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: within our practices, you know, and showing an employee that
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: there's a career opportunity versus just a job. And, you know, that's, that's,
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: that's for another episode.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, let me, let me just say, let me
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: just say this. So I did two lectures at the
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: TDA this year. We had around in both sessions total
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: had about 500 people and the pretty big rooms. And
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: I talked about, you know, love what you do and
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: go home with everything done was kind of the whole concept.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: So everybody was down with that. But I started talking
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: to owners and the assistants that were in the room.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: And I said, I don't know if you guys know this, but.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: and I say this and I watch how the crowd
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: reacts and I've done this in maybe 10 different lectures,
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: different formats. And I say this exact thing, you work
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: in a business school, Your owner could teach you how
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: to run a business just by working in a dental practice.
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: Because guess what? It's a business. Marketing. And I tell them,
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: I give them all the things they could learn. And
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: I open that door mentally to them. And Jill, the
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: entire room... moves just a little bit. Like the entire
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: room kind of goes, it's weird. And the owners move
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: because they're like, wait a minute, that's true. I could
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: teach these people all I could about my business. Because
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: I'm frustrated they don't understand how business works, but I'm
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: not going to teach them. And then the employees are like, well,
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: this is just an hourly wage job. I don't really
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: have a future here. That concept of teaching them the
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: mechanism of the business not only will bring them closer
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: to the business results as an output of that, but
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: also you could tell them, I don't want you to
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: be here forever. You know, you're 20 years old. Let
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: me teach you all about business. Hopefully you stay here
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: for five years and I'm going to put retention programs
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: in place. I'm going to bonus you and do all
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: the things I want to keep you. But at the
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: end of the day, I don't want you to be
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: here forever. Right. There's a bigger life for you if
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: you want it out there and you could run your
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: own business. And that concept of trying to do what's
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: best for all parties versus just what's best for the business.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: is what brings employees closer to the business. And so
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: you may keep them an extra time, but you also
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: have to teach them, right? So anyway, we could go
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: into that. There's several other strategies that are similar to
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: that that you can execute to retain your people. But
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: it really doesn't matter if you hired the wrong person. Yeah.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And so let's just flip that and say, what
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: does it look like to hire the right person? I
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: know you deal with this a lot. What are you
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: seeing that defines the right person beyond maybe just experience
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: on a resume or they've got a bubbly personality. They'll
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: be great for my office.
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah. There's lots of bubbly criminals out there. There's lots
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: of bubbly, lazy people. With the bubbly, productive people. It's
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: tough to figure out which ones because you're only looking
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: at the bubbly part, right?
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: Right, right.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: So in my background, I actually ran recruiting for the
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: Hartford Insurance Company. I ran the recruiting for half of
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: the United States. We hired like 5,000 people. And when
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: I first started in that job, I realized they were like,
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: we need to hire people. We need to hire people. Great.
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: That's why you got me here. We're having some turnover issues. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: And I asked two managers, what is talent to you?
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: And I got two different pictures. And I asked 14
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: general managers across the Western US, what is talent to you?
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: I got some similarities, but I got a lot of variants.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: So there was no real clear picture on what talent
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: meant for this business. So we set about calibrating. And
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: maybe this is a separate session that you and I do.
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: We might have to.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: This sounds really good.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So when we calibrate, what we're doing is we're
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: defining the key attributes and behaviors and just the person.
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: And when we calibrate, we're talking about individuals that have
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: been successful in the role. Like who are the stars?
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: Who are the ones that have figured out all the magic,
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: how to do all the things and who is winning?
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: So we calibrate around that. And if you're a dental
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: practice owner and orthodontist and you're hearing this, you have
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: peers that you guys could get together over coffee and
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: just say, what is talent to you at front desk?
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: What is talent to you in treatment planning? Like, what
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: do you want out of that? And just come to
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: a conclusion on what that picture looks like. And oftentimes
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: the easiest way to do it is to picture the
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: person that you've worked with in your past that embodied
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: the ideal person, right? And just describe that individual. And
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: the way you describe them is you describe them with
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: their values, their attitudes, their behaviors, their skills, and their experiences.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: But these are not all created equal. They're ranked in
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: order of most important. So values, attitudes, and behaviors, those
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: are the psychological aspect of the individual, the behavioral aspect
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: that drives performance and engagement and quality and all the
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: things you want. But you don't ever recruit for that.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: You always recruit for skills and experiences. So your recruiting
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: process is basically, it's a crapshoot. You know, you're rolling
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: the dice. You're hiring someone that can do the job,
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: but you don't know whether or not they believe in
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: what you want them to do. They believe in cleaning.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: They believe in accurate accounting. You know, all the things, right?
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: So if you start with values, then you go to
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: attitudes and behaviors. That's going to get this person who's
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: going to show up early to work. It's going to
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: get the person that's going to do the extra thing
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: for who's going to get up off their desk and
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: go open the front door for someone in crutches. There's
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: just these things that they'll do that you can't teach,
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: you can't coach. It's just part of who they are.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: You can influence them, but you can't change them. And
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: so what's cool is you hire for skills and experiences,
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: but then you also fire for values, attitudes, and behaviors, right?
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: You fire them for these behavioral things they do. So
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: let's just recruit for those items first. And then you say, well,
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: but Kerry, I need someone who can do the job.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: I found someone I really like, which means when I
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: say found someone I really like, that means I found
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: someone that's a good fit for my values, attitudes, and behaviors.
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: Then it's like, well, they don't really know how to
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: do the job. And I don't really have any training
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: resources available because, you know, we're really busy and I
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: just don't have that time to put that in place.
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: So I'm going to go ahead and hire someone that
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: knows how to do the job. They're a maniac because
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: that's why they're available in the first place. I don't know.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: I just, you know.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: Well, you're not that far off, I think, at some points.
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: I'm just being a realist. You know, I've worked with
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: one of my, my dentist, I was talking to him
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: and his first five years, he hired something like 40 people, right?
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: In a small, small town, small practice. And always skills
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: and experiences, never attitudes and behavior. Why'd you fire? Oh,
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: she's showing up late all the time. Oh, why'd you fire? Oh,
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: because she was gossiping about a thing or she just
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: wouldn't do her job or, you know, those sorts of
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: behavioral things. And so then it flipped on him. I
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: told him, I was like, bro, you need to be
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: hiring about values. And that started to change his practice.
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: But the calibration is really important to get that down.
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: And what's awesome is, is generally speaking, Jill, you could
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: buy Jill's calibrated values, attitudes, behavior, skills, and experiences roadmap
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: for all these jobs. Then it's going to work for
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: you because all in all, the jobs are pretty homogenous
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: unless there's some sort of like you deal with special
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: needs people or you deal with sedation and you, or
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: you do other kind of not strictly orthodontic work. Generally speaking,
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: that guy is going to be pretty valuable for you
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: and easy to follow. So, yeah.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: Well, and I want to just say one thing to
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: that because you're gosh, I love that concept and you're
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: exactly right. And it's so interesting when you kind of
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: break it up and think about truly so many times
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: what we think we're hiring for and And yet I
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: love that, but what we tend to fire for. And
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: one of the things that I try and coach a
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: lot of my doctors on is that doctors themselves have
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: to understand their own values for their practice. Because if
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: the person that you're hiring, if their values don't line
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: up with the values of your practice, then there's always
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: going to be this internal conflict. struggle. And I think
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: that that's a really deep thing to think about because
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: I don't think a lot of times doctors actually take
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: the time to really like, oh yeah, that was an
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: exercise I did back in school or that was a
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: this or a that. But really when you think about
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: what embodies the culture of your practice is It's a
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: core set of values. And if your team members are
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: not making decisions within those core set of values, and
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: if you can't relay those core set of values to
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: a new team member that you're hiring on, beyond the
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: experience part, to your point, we could have an amazing
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: clinical assistant But if they can't be friendly with the
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: employees or can't decide to stay in through their lunch
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: hour because the value of the practices were going to
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: be helpful in all situations. And they're like, yeah, except
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: for when it comes to lunch.
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, not my job.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: Exactly.
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: That's not my job.
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. It's crazy. And so I just wanted to
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: say that because I think that's such a valid point
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: that you bring. But I don't think sometimes doctors sit
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: under the weight of the fact that going back to
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: you're the owner, you need to understand what your values
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: are and bring those to your team. Don't let your
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: team bring their values to you. And then you've got
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: 10 different people living their own values in your practice.
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: And you wonder why you've got, you know, craziness going
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: on every day.
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: Well, you know, so the values, the values part of
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: it is designed to accept accountability. So within this stream
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: that we've been talking about, you know, we started off
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: with being like leadership edge and we discussed, you know,
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: things that you need to do to kind of business
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: processes and all that. And then I said, you know,
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: the who part of it. And if you don't get
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: the right people, you're going to be plugging them into
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: these systems that they're not going to respect, you know,
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: from a values perspective. And so then, The issue becomes,
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: you need to start having issues because a lot of
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: times practice owners, in my experience, they just don't have
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: the ability to manage accountability against how people act from
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: a values angle. There's no values measures built into the relationship.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: So it's very difficult to manage those things once you've
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: got the person in. And then now comes a whole
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: thing like, Oh God, how, you know, how am I
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: going to rectify this relationship with this person and get
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: them to do what I need them to do? And
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: I'm like, well, maybe you just got the wrong person,
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: you know, to begin with. So that's why this is
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: a good kind of like loop for this is start,
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: you know, maybe we could have started with getting the
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: right person and then moving them into the process piece.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: Either way. It's, it's work. It's things you have to do.
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: It's work. And, and, There's resources out there for anyone
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: that wants to go tackle this stuff. I would just say,
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: as an owner, you're not going to do this work.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: I'll just be real with you. If you have one
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: location and you have a team of 15 people and
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: you listen to this and you're like, yeah, I want
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: to do it. Next week, you won't do it. You
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: just won't. You don't have time. Trust me. I'll have
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: a room full of people. I go, hey, does this
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: sound like something you want to explore? A room full
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: of people, 100, 200 people. And they'll raise their hand. Yeah,
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: I want to go do this. Next week, not a
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: single email or phone call. Not a single one. It's wild.
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: It's wild. So you need help. So get help to
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: implement and to start the ball rolling to train your
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: team and bring your people into this cycle so they
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: can manage it for you and have some ownership with you.
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: the things you want to transform wherever they're at. Yeah.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And I think you said it earlier, like there's
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: never a better time than right now. And I think
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: that sometimes as doctors or owners, we carry this guilt, like, oh,
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: I should have done this. Jill, I know, you know,
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: and I get this all the time when I talk
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: to doctors who maybe are more established. I know this
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: is something I should have done. And I'm like, hey,
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: it's okay. Like, we're going to meet you right where
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: you are. Right now, and we're going to move forward
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: from here forward. I'm not going to beat you up
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: about what you could have, should have, would have done.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: I think, Carrie, you're making this point that whether you're
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: a startup doc, whether you're an established practice, like all
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: that we can do is move forward from here. And
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: to your point, I mean, yes, I have a business
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: on helping startups. doctors better themselves in their practice. But
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: when I need help as a business owner, I go
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: get help from somebody that can help me because I
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: know as a business owner, I can't do it all
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: myself either. I just think sometimes we get so... in
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: the habit as business owners of thinking, well, somehow I'm
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: less if I have to ask for help instead of,
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: I think you're going to be 10 times farther along
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: if you can ask for the help and get the
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: help put in place and then look back a year
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: later or two years later and go, wow, look how
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: much farther I got than if I were trying to
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: fit this in on Friday nights and Saturday mornings and
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: only in my slow season in my practice on Septembers
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: and Mays. You know what I mean? Yeah.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: I mean, Jill, I'll make it even more simple. The
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: way I respond as a business owner is like, I
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: don't want to do it. I have to do it.
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: I don't want to do it, but I don't have
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: the time to do it. So I need help get
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: someone to do this for me. So I see the
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: value in it. I just can't take it on.
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: I used to be the other guy. I used to
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: be able to take everything on and just do it.
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: And at the end of the day, you run out
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: of steam. You know, you just end up, you mentally
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: disconnect from your business. Yeah. And that's not a good,
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: that's not a good place to be. Yeah.
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: Burnout is not where you want to be. Or you're
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: looking back and going, gosh, I don't have any relationships.
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: I don't have any of this.
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: I don't have any of that. I'm alone. I'm alone.
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Well, Carrie, I know you and I
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: could just continue to talk. But if somebody wants to
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: learn more about Dundas, if they want to find out
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: how you guys can jump in and be their who
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: on helping them move this ball down the field or whatnot,
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: what's the best way that they're going to be able
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: to connect with you and get in touch?
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: So we have a website, dundesk.com, and that's a pretty
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: easy place to go. Also, LinkedIn. Of course, I'm on LinkedIn.
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: Of course, you can contact Jill's team. They know how
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: to get a hold of me. Not hard to find.
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: I think the key thing I want everyone to know
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: is that a practice shouldn't require the doctor to remember
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: everything and chase everyone or carry the entire operation home
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: again at night. that the kind of dependency that Dundas
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: was built to solve is real. I mean, we can
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: fix that for our practice owners. And I just hope
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: that that's a reality you'd like to live. I can
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: tell you this, employees enjoy working at a smooth practice
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: that they can go home and not worry about. And
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: that is a retention factor and one of the factors
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: that people lock into when they select their employer to
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: spend their time with. It's how easy it is to
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: work here. And that's really the world we want to
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: have be real in your practice. So yeah, dundest.com. And
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: we're not hard to find. All right.
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So let's lay down that superwoman and Superman syndrome
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: and get the help we need.
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: Yes. I never thought of it that way.
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: And now a word from the sponsors who make this
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: podcast possible.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: Hey, Docs.
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about SmileSuite because it's not just another scheduling system.
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: It's a game changer in the world of new patient management.
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: And as a proud SmileSuite partner, I've witnessed the incredible
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: impact it has on practices of all sizes. SmileSuite means
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: your new patient calls and web leads are expertly handled
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: seven days a week, even during nights and weekends. And
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: they offer top-notch customizable presentation software and seamless post-consultation follow-up.
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: It's like having a secret weapon for your practice's success. Curious?
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: Dive into the revolution at GetSmileSuite.com. And don't forget to
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: mention HeyDocs to unlock some extra goodies. Elevate your practice
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: with SmileSuite because every smile deserves a suite of excellence. Well, Keri,
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: it has been just such a pleasure having you on.
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: And you know how I like to finish up, hey, docs,
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: I like to finish this up with a couple speed
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: round questions. Are you ready for the challenge?
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, yes, okay. I forgot about this part.
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: All right, go ahead. Now it's getting unplanned.
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: Now it's getting real. Now it's getting real. Okay, what
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: is the most unexpected lesson you've learned in your career?
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: The most unexpected. Oh, this is a good one. The
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: most unexpected lesson is that the employees that you have
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: starting up your business are not the employees who will
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: take you where you want to go.
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: That is so true.
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying you have to fire everyone. I'm saying
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: the people that they are early in your business are
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: the ones that need to be developed to become different
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: kinds of people that your mature business will need.
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Ooh, that's a good one. Okay.
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: How about this one?
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: What is one business trend you think more people should
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: be paying attention to?
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: I don't know if this is a trend. I just
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: tell people to pay attention to because it's not being
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: spoken about at any conference, any meeting, all the trade shows.
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: They're not talking about this at all. Build human-centric systems
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: in your business. Instead of KPIs and dashboards and, you know,
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: pundits telling you what your percentages of whatever should be
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: of your revenue and all that. Refocus everything you do
• 46:53
  Speaker 2: around this human aspect of how you deliver dentistry and
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: what you do, not only for your employees, but also
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: for your people, for your patients. You know, the use
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: of AI to try to do front desk and, you know,
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: is that what the patients want? It's what you should
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: do because it's cheap, but it's not what the patients
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: want from you who are actually paying the bills. So
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: they're just, you know, think about building very human centric
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: systems versus any other strategy. Yeah.
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: Ooh, that's good. All right. And the last one you're
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: going to finish off here with is if you had.
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: Spin the wheel, Jill. Get the hard one. I know,
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: I know. All right.
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: Here's, this is a hard one. This usually stumps people.
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: If you had unlimited resources, what is one big idea
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: you would bring to life?
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: Unlimited resources, one big idea, unlimited resources.
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: Which would be time, right? Unlimited time, which would be good.
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: One big idea. It would probably be something like done desk.
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: There you go. That's it.
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: That's perfect. That's all my brain has right now, Jill.
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: That's all I got.
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: That's all I got. Well, I get that. I live
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: and breathe my business too. So yeah. Well, Carrie, thank
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: you so much for being on Hey Docs again and
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: always a pleasure to have you. Thank you.
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: You're welcome. Thanks for having me. Talk soon.
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: All right. Are you ready to start a practice of
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: your own? Need a new fresh set of eyes or
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: some advice on your existing practice? If so, reach out
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: to me, Jill Allen, at www.practiceresults.com. If you like what
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: we're doing here on Hey Docs and want to hear
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: more of this awesome content, be sure and give us
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: a five-star rating on your preferred listening platform and subscribe
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: to our show so you never miss an episode. Remember,
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: new episodes drop every Thursday. See you next week.