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You Can't Think Your Way Into Safety with Janet Friesen · Echoes & Edges

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Echoes and Edges, the Broken and Beautiful podcast.
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Speaker 1: I'm Patria, your host for Echoes and Edges and the
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Speaker 1: founder of the Broken and Beautiful Collective. The Broken and
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Speaker 1: Beautiful is a collective of healers and practitioners on the
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Speaker 1: hunt for beauty, meaning, and transformation. Here at the Broken
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Speaker 1: and Beautiful, we believe that healing often begins when we
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Speaker 1: become curious about the places in our lives that have
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Speaker 1: felt confusing, constricted, or disconnected, and begin gently asking what
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Speaker 1: those places might be trying to tell us. In our
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Speaker 1: last episode, we talked about what happens when safe doesn't
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Speaker 1: actually feel safe, When our bodies and nervous systems have
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Speaker 1: become so accustomed to stress, urgency, unpredictability, or even harm,
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Speaker 1: that peace and safety can feel unfamiliar. And today I
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Speaker 1: want to keep going because recognizing a pattern is important,
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Speaker 1: but recognition alone does not necessarily change the pattern. We
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Speaker 1: can understand why we people please, We can recognize the
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Speaker 1: inner critic. We can know that we are overfunctioning or
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Speaker 1: shutting down, or staying hypervigilant, or even struggling to trust ourselves,
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Speaker 1: and still find ourselves doing the very same things tomorrow.
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Speaker 1: So today we're talking about what happens next. How do
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Speaker 1: we begin rebuilding trust with ourselves? How do small choices,
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Speaker 1: consistent practices, safe relationships, and even ordinary and mundane things
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Speaker 1: like stopping and resting, maybe adding a little bit of movement, creativity,
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Speaker 1: prayer or connection begin to teach our bodies something new?
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Speaker 1: And how do we learn to live differently without demanding
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Speaker 1: that we become different overnight. This is not about fixing yourself.
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Speaker 1: It is about becoming more attentive to yourself, your body,
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Speaker 1: your story, your needs, your motivations, and the small invitations
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Speaker 1: toward healing that may already be right in front of you.
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Speaker 1: So wherever you are today, you are welcome here. Let's begin.
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Speaker 1: That feeling of safety, the feeling of joy, the feeling
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Speaker 1: of peace is not only okay to have for you
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Speaker 1: as a human, but it's necessary for the people that
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Speaker 1: rely on you. And so if you're one of those
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Speaker 1: people who are just really struggling to value yourself enough
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Speaker 1: to ask for help or to get support or to
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Speaker 1: make these small changes, or be you're in a relationship
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Speaker 1: of some sort that won't allow for that, you know,
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Speaker 1: let's talk about the bee person, because that that's a
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Speaker 1: whole different ball of axe. You know, we're someone who's
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Speaker 1: legitimately being required these things externally, are being required of them,
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Speaker 1: and so what what are they needing? How can we
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Speaker 1: offer support here to that vision?
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Speaker 2: I think that in that place again, other people. It's
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Speaker 2: so critical to have other people to support you. Yeah,
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Speaker 2: because if I'm in a situation where I'm living with
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Speaker 2: someone who is kind of dictating what I do every day,
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Speaker 2: all day, it's it's really hard to break out of
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Speaker 2: that without having support from other people. I don't I
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Speaker 2: think I would go so far as to say I
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Speaker 2: think it might be impossible to break out of that
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Speaker 2: because we're so trapped in that cycle and we don't
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Speaker 2: even see it and that's our normal. But if we
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Speaker 2: can have somebody else, whether it's like I said, a friend,
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Speaker 2: a coach, a therapist, a mentor, a pastor, you know whatever,
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Speaker 2: somebody that can care for us and show us care
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Speaker 2: that no, this isn't this isn't good for you, you're
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Speaker 2: losing yourself in this and even reaching out to get
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Speaker 2: support from agencies that are of people that are trained
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Speaker 2: to help, you know, people like in Lincoln with Voices
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Speaker 2: of Hope are there steps that I need to take.
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Speaker 2: If I'm in that level of a controlling relationship that
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Speaker 2: sounds sounds like what you're describing as very control and
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Speaker 2: very toxic, that it's probably not safe for me to
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Speaker 2: be in that relationship if it stays the same like that,
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Speaker 2: And so if I can start making some changes, if
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Speaker 2: it's safe enough, you know, I think, no, no, I'm
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Speaker 2: not going to do that. I mean, if there's repercussions
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Speaker 2: that put me in physical harm or emotional harm, that's
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Speaker 2: telling us something, that's giving us information about how bad
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Speaker 2: it is. But sometimes we're in situations and we've just
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Speaker 2: we think that that's we're going to get a bad response,
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Speaker 2: but we won't. But we don't know that unless we
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Speaker 2: have the support of other people around us or trust
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Speaker 2: that it's going to be okay to say no at
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Speaker 2: least in a little way, or maybe not to say no,
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Speaker 2: but to say I'm going to go do this right now,
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Speaker 2: which is kind of asserting our own independence, you know,
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Speaker 2: saying I'm going to go meet a friend for an hour,
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Speaker 2: and if we typically don't do that, and to see
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Speaker 2: what the to kind of get a reading on how
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Speaker 2: is that received? Is that? I mean I'm guessing if
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Speaker 2: we've been in a situation where we've been controlled, our
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Speaker 2: partners probably going to be really surprised if we do
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Speaker 2: something like that. But maybe there won't be a repercussion,
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Speaker 2: And if there is, I think that's another question. That's
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Speaker 2: another conversation. That would be more voices of hope territory.
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Speaker 2: But it could just be us starting to say I'm
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Speaker 2: going to do this differently, or I'm going to go
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Speaker 2: sign up for a class, you know, whether it's a
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Speaker 2: fun class or whether I want to go back to
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Speaker 2: school and I'm going to enroll in this class and
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Speaker 2: start working on getting a degree and see how that's received.
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Speaker 2: But a lot of times we have to make that step,
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Speaker 2: but we're probably not going to take that step if
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Speaker 2: we don't have other people around us that are really
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Speaker 2: encouraging us.
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Speaker 1: When we're trying to break out of our understanding of
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Speaker 1: reality as it is. That might be, you know, there
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Speaker 1: might be truth to it. There is some level of harm, toxicity, abuse,
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Speaker 1: perhaps even but maybe some of it is perceived more
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Speaker 1: than true true, like we're not really going to get
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Speaker 1: hurt or someone we love is not going to get
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Speaker 1: hurt if we exercise our independence, like you describe just
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Speaker 1: a little bit ago, that idea of support is. I
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Speaker 1: just want to underscore that, like we talk, I just
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Speaker 1: don't want to pass it by as a passing idea
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Speaker 1: because literally, I mean it's a real it's emotional math
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Speaker 1: that if our internal world is experiencing life in a
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Speaker 1: particular way and we're not okay, we can't get out
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Speaker 1: of that pickle. We can't get out of that way
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Speaker 1: of being without external, safe, external input that can help
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Speaker 1: us test the reality to some degree or another and
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Speaker 1: take those tiny little steps, just like don't jump off
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Speaker 1: a cliff, you know, but take a step, you know,
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Speaker 1: take a step toward something that doesn't feel safe, and
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Speaker 1: then step back and see how it goes. Anything you
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Speaker 1: would want to add to that.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we're wired for connection. I think we
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Speaker 2: were created to be in community. And even thinking about
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Speaker 2: just babies, you know, human babies are completely dependent on
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Speaker 2: their parents for several years, well for quite a few years,
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Speaker 2: but especially when they're very little babies. They can't do anything.
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Speaker 2: They can't feed themselves, they can't change their diapers. They
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Speaker 2: really need a lot of care, and we continue to
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Speaker 2: need other people as we go through life. All the
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Speaker 2: time that we need others and we can help when
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Speaker 2: we're disregulated. When we kind of going back to the
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Speaker 2: beginning when we're talking about our nervous system, if I'm
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Speaker 2: really dysregulated and I'm around a friend who's calm and
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Speaker 2: able to stay regulated, that can help me to calm down.
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Speaker 2: I think we see that with our kids sometimes. I
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Speaker 2: remember when my kids were little, and if they'd cry
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Speaker 2: or get upset over something or get hurt, what do
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Speaker 2: they do. Most kids come running to mommy, you know,
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Speaker 2: and they just need to be soothed. They need to
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Speaker 2: be seen, and that just that safety and the mom
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Speaker 2: not freaking out like, oh my gosh, what's wrong, but
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Speaker 2: being able to care for them, that helps them to
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Speaker 2: calm down and relax. And even as adults, we need that.
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Speaker 2: It's a different it looks different, it's a different level,
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Speaker 2: but we still need other people to help us kind
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Speaker 2: of to regulate and as you said, to see reality.
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Speaker 2: Because sometimes when this goes back to what we said
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Speaker 2: at the very beginning, too, we can get into those
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Speaker 2: situations where we're so used to our reality it's normal.
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Speaker 2: So if we have someone else that can kind of
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Speaker 2: be a mirror to us and say, yeah, that's not
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Speaker 2: you know, what you're experiencing isn't normal, or there's this
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Speaker 2: other option. Now, not everybody's like this, Not every relationship
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Speaker 2: or work situation or whatever is like this. To have
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Speaker 2: other people that can speak into.
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Speaker 1: That, yeah, yeah, and you didn't use the language and
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Speaker 1: it's not really important. But just for those listeners, who
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Speaker 1: are you know, a little deeper in the language of
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Speaker 1: regulation and attachment you're talking about coregulation, you know, even
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Speaker 1: going back to infants, who you know, and in infancy
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Speaker 1: we see it so clearly. And sometimes I'll say this
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Speaker 1: to people too. And I don't know if you use
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Speaker 1: this to janet with your with your therapy clients, but
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Speaker 1: with my coaching clients, just in terms of kind of
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Speaker 1: putting language around again, trying to get our hands round
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Speaker 1: what is? Who are you? Who are? Who were you
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Speaker 1: designed to be? I like to talk about birth. You know,
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Speaker 1: some babies are born quiet. Most babies are born, what
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Speaker 1: you know, screaming at the top of their lungs, And
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Speaker 1: eventually every baby screams at the top of their lungs
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Speaker 1: for certain things like food and getting their diaper changed, sleep,
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Speaker 1: if they're tired, if they're hungry. I guess I said food.
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Speaker 1: But it's it's like some point in our life, our
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Speaker 1: nervous system quit. You know, if we are not safe
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Speaker 1: within our own selves, we somewhere along the way didn't
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Speaker 1: get the coregulation maybe that we were needing or we
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Speaker 1: forgot that. You know, coregulation doesn't mean I'm not having
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Speaker 1: strong feelings. It just means I have somebody in my
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Speaker 1: world that can help be a stable, safe, present sense
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Speaker 1: for me when I'm feeling like I'm about to lose
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Speaker 1: my mind. So how important is this and secure? Like
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Speaker 1: this idea is being secure?
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Speaker 2: It's really really yeah, so important, and I would I
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Speaker 2: want to just insert too. Pets can be really helpful
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Speaker 2: to help us get home regulate too. I don't think
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Speaker 2: we have to go beyond that, but I think we can.
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Speaker 2: Pets can really help, you know, because animals can they
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Speaker 2: pick up on what's going on within us too, or
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Speaker 2: if we're upset. I remember my one son that he
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Speaker 2: had a bunny, and when he was upset, he would
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Speaker 2: go pet his bunny and you know, lay his hat
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Speaker 2: on his bunny, and you know that was just another
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Speaker 2: animal that could that just helped him to feel soothed.
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Speaker 2: And I think just the softness of pets, petting them.
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Speaker 2: Those kinds of things too can be really helpful. But
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Speaker 2: we need more than just pets, but can be very helpful.
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Speaker 1: Right, And sometimes you know you've mentioned people, pets and places.
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Speaker 1: You know, you mentioned a place you know, whether it's
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Speaker 1: the park, or even just taking your shoes off and
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Speaker 1: standing in the grass, or if it's freezing cold in
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Speaker 1: the wintertime, just for a minute putting your feet in
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Speaker 1: the snow and letting the cold sort of wake you
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Speaker 1: up and just regulate you. And these are all free
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Speaker 1: in some you know, some way or another, especially stepping
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Speaker 1: outside or just enjoying a pet. You know, go listen
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Speaker 1: to dogs at the dog park, or you know, ask
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Speaker 1: a friendly person if you can pet their dog or whatever.
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Speaker 1: But people, places, and pets are at least three ways
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Speaker 1: that are very supportive that can help us get that
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Speaker 1: sense of inner stability and inner calm that we really
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Speaker 1: need to be able to do some of this work
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Speaker 1: that we're talking about and healing.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I would also add, like think like activities too.
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Speaker 2: Like I have one client who loves to run, and
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Speaker 2: so if she's dysregulated, she'll want to go for a run,
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Speaker 2: or like hobbies like drawing or painting, or putting on
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Speaker 2: some music and dancing around your kitchen. But some of
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Speaker 2: those kinds of things too, hobbies can be really regulating
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Speaker 2: because we tend to kind of get lost in that
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Speaker 2: if we do have time to spend, if we have
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Speaker 2: a pocket of time and I can just draw or
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Speaker 2: paint or whatever my thing is, or like the adult
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Speaker 2: coloring books. But those kinds of things, we're focusing on that,
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Speaker 2: and it's kind of like we lose touch with the
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Speaker 2: world around us because we're focusing in on whatever it
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Speaker 2: is that we're doing. And so those kinds of hobbies
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Speaker 2: can be really helpful to regulate us too.
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Speaker 1: I'm so glad you mentioned that. It's reminding me of
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Speaker 1: share niquist who is part of our collective. She gets
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Speaker 1: she just keeps her art supplies set up and she'll take,
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Speaker 1: you know, in her kitchen or wherever it is, and
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Speaker 1: she'll just take her paintbrush and do a quick, you know,
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Speaker 1: little bl blah blah b lip when she's cooking dinner
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Speaker 1: or when she's running by or whatever, and just to
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Speaker 1: have that outlet. And she talks about how healing that's
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Speaker 1: been for her, and I think of that too. Again,
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Speaker 1: going to the mailbox makes me think of that, you know,
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Speaker 1: putting your shoes on, walking to the mailbox, getting your
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Speaker 1: mail every single day, these mundane, even the mundane ordinary things.
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Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be art or something really particularly special,
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Speaker 1: but something that just makes you feel normal gets you
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Speaker 1: into you know, just a sense of normalcy. Doesn't have
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Speaker 1: to be grand or wonderful, just connected to something. Well.
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Speaker 1: Talk about consistency, predictability, you know, and how important that
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Speaker 1: is or anything else that might come up there.
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Speaker 2: I'll tackle this from two ways. One is like when
16:05
Speaker 2: as we talked about earlier about if we're trying to
16:08
Speaker 2: start something new, we want to be as consistent as possible,
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Speaker 2: but also to be kind to ourselves, to have that compassion.
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Speaker 2: If I don't do this every day, it doesn't mean
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Speaker 2: that I'm a failure. If I did it four or
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Speaker 2: five days out of seven, that's a win. So in
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Speaker 2: that regard, I would say to be loose a little
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Speaker 2: bit with consistency, to have a plan, to say I
16:29
Speaker 2: want to do this daily, and to not beat myself up,
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Speaker 2: to give myself like cheat days or whatever. You know
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Speaker 2: that that's okay. And then but on the flip side
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Speaker 2: with relationships, I think it's so important to be really
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Speaker 2: consistent because if we're building trust. I think about with
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Speaker 2: with young children or with pets, if we're treating them
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Speaker 2: kindly all the time, but then we blow up at them,
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Speaker 2: they're not going to trust us and that was a
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Speaker 2: one time thing, but that breaks down and eroads all
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Speaker 2: the trust that was built. And so I think with
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Speaker 2: relationships with people and our pets, as we've talked about
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Speaker 2: pets here, that we really do need to work on
17:14
Speaker 2: being consistent and being able to regulate our emotions enough,
17:19
Speaker 2: which we've talked about a lot of different tactics of
17:22
Speaker 2: doing that. And part of that is not just for ourselves,
17:26
Speaker 2: not just a selfish thing like I want to feel better,
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Speaker 2: but it's also that's going to help us in our
17:30
Speaker 2: relationships with others, because if I'm more regulated myself, I'm
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Speaker 2: going to be treating others in a way that's respectful
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Speaker 2: and kind and compassionate versus flipping out and yelling at them.
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Speaker 2: And so yeah, I would say consistency with in relationships,
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Speaker 2: with how we're behaving is really really important to make
17:52
Speaker 2: sure that we're we're showing up the same way for people.
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Speaker 2: I often will give this illustration that I heard years
18:00
Speaker 2: ago in some parenting workshop about when the police officer
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Speaker 2: pulls you over if you've been speeding. He doesn't say,
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Speaker 2: oh my gosh, I can't believe it. Why were you
18:10
Speaker 2: doing this, Why were you going so fast? You're such
18:12
Speaker 2: a bad person, you're a terrible person. He just writes
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Speaker 2: the ticket. He's like, you were going ten over, here's
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Speaker 2: your ticket. And I heard that when my kids were younger,
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Speaker 2: and it was the idea was just write the ticket.
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Speaker 2: You don't need to explode and all of that. You know,
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Speaker 2: if your child misbehaves, just say you know you didn't
18:35
Speaker 2: do this. Now you don't get dessert or you need
18:38
Speaker 2: to do X y Z. But we don't have to
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Speaker 2: blow up and have this big reaction.
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Speaker 1: Doesn't have to be punishment or revenge.
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Speaker 2: Right yeah, yeah, But just to have that that mindset
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Speaker 2: of how can I be as consistent as possible in
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Speaker 2: my relationships, I think it's really important. Like I said,
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Speaker 2: with our kids, with our pets, with adults too, and
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Speaker 2: with adults there's there's some leeway because we have we
19:05
Speaker 2: can explain more talk more or hopefully can give and
19:09
Speaker 2: receive feedback and grace when we need it, and it
19:13
Speaker 2: still does erode the relationship if we're behaving in a
19:16
Speaker 2: way that's that's not respectful in kind. And to just
19:21
Speaker 2: realize that.
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Speaker 1: We're not really landing and talking particularly about abusive relationships,
19:36
Speaker 1: but when we're talking about somebody who's lived in, you know,
19:39
Speaker 1: a degree of harm long enough that their nervous system
19:43
Speaker 1: is just shot, and you've got a cycle, say in
19:48
Speaker 1: the relationship of scream and scream back and scream and
19:52
Speaker 1: scream back, and they just show up at your office, Janet,
19:56
Speaker 1: or you know, another therapist's office, or they show up
19:59
Speaker 1: in a coach off for me and they don't even
20:03
Speaker 1: know which came first, the chicken or the egg, and
20:06
Speaker 1: everybody is so distressed and distraught, and you know, say,
20:10
Speaker 1: the blame is all going on to one person because
20:15
Speaker 1: she's so reactive, she's you know, she's so dramatic, she's
20:18
Speaker 1: so blah blah blah, whatever the case may be. And
20:23
Speaker 1: just thinking about how important you know, taking ourselves seriously
20:29
Speaker 1: recognizing these patterns are what they are. We don't have
20:34
Speaker 1: to understand everything before we can start doing something differently,
20:42
Speaker 1: and so kind of in that vein, let's talk a
20:44
Speaker 1: little bit about why just insight or information doesn't really
20:49
Speaker 1: help all that much and why these little steps and
20:52
Speaker 1: promises and consistency and compassion these things are actually much
20:57
Speaker 1: more effective to produce we're talking about.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's such a good point, because I
21:04
Speaker 2: think we can probably all relate to knowing what I
21:07
Speaker 2: should do, but not doing it, And that's where showing
21:12
Speaker 2: up doing these small things, these little practices, these little
21:16
Speaker 2: promises to myself, that's kind of resetting something that's resetting
21:21
Speaker 2: something within our bodies that we know it's safe to
21:26
Speaker 2: behave this way, or it's you know that I feel
21:30
Speaker 2: more regulated when I've done this, because yeah, just knowing
21:35
Speaker 2: isn't going to change it, because we're we are creatures
21:39
Speaker 2: of habit too, and so we're going to just keep
21:42
Speaker 2: doing what's familiar to us and until we get to
21:47
Speaker 2: that point where that has shifted, Like if in the
21:51
Speaker 2: situation you mentioned, if it's screams screen back kind of
21:54
Speaker 2: a situation, we can talk about maybe what are the
21:58
Speaker 2: values in our family? What we value? Do we value honesty?
22:02
Speaker 2: Do we value kindness? Do we value respect? Okay, how
22:07
Speaker 2: can we live that way? Are there certain things that
22:09
Speaker 2: we need to take off the table? Knowing that's not
22:12
Speaker 2: going to change everything overnight, of course, that's what we're
22:14
Speaker 2: talking about. Insight doesn't change everything. But if we can
22:17
Speaker 2: be intentional like that, and then when we do start,
22:20
Speaker 2: if we can catch ourselves and say, I need a
22:24
Speaker 2: time out right now, you know, I need to take
22:27
Speaker 2: a break from this. And or if there's if it's
22:31
Speaker 2: that we're getting into arguments late at night, just to
22:35
Speaker 2: have a family rule we're not going to talk about
22:37
Speaker 2: anything important after nine pm. And in kind of putting
22:44
Speaker 2: some of those kinds of boundaries around which might seem
22:47
Speaker 2: a little silly or like, well, that's not going to
22:49
Speaker 2: make any difference. Well, but if we're if we are
22:52
Speaker 2: getting into these escalations and it's late at night, if
22:56
Speaker 2: we can just have a rule that at nine o'clock
22:59
Speaker 2: we're not going to get into any discussions. We're going
23:03
Speaker 2: to do relaxing types of things. Again, that's teaching ourselves
23:07
Speaker 2: to reset. It's teaching I'm teaching my body to reset,
23:10
Speaker 2: the other person's bodies resetting as a unit, we're resetting,
23:15
Speaker 2: and again, it takes time, and we're not going to
23:18
Speaker 2: do it perfectly, and there's going to be times where
23:20
Speaker 2: we're going to think, oh, this is really important, it
23:22
Speaker 2: has to we have to discuss this. Then it might
23:25
Speaker 2: turn into an argument and again it's data. Oh yep,
23:29
Speaker 2: see that that didn't work very well. We really need
23:34
Speaker 2: to make sure that we're keeping that, you know, that
23:36
Speaker 2: boundary that we've set about no big discussions after nine
23:40
Speaker 2: pm or whatever the thing is. But I think if
23:43
Speaker 2: we can start to shift, even in little ways, put
23:46
Speaker 2: little constraints on some things like that, or contain some
23:50
Speaker 2: of the stuff that we're dealing with, it can start
23:53
Speaker 2: to give us a different embodied feeling of that of
23:56
Speaker 2: what does this feel like now? That can then give
23:59
Speaker 2: us more motivation to keep you know, I like this.
24:02
Speaker 2: This feels different. It's not what I'm used to, but
24:05
Speaker 2: I'm starting to get used to feeling more calm now,
24:08
Speaker 2: and I want to keep doing this.
24:10
Speaker 1: I love that. I don't know who it was, but
24:13
Speaker 1: I'm hearing somebody from maybe decades ago even saying we're
24:18
Speaker 1: not heads on sticks, you know, and that I think
24:23
Speaker 1: when you just said the word embodiment, my body actually
24:26
Speaker 1: just like oh breathed, like right, you know, even as
24:31
Speaker 1: we're sitting here doing this podcast, it would be this episode.
24:36
Speaker 1: It would be so easy to get it all in
24:38
Speaker 1: our heads and just be talking about these ideas. But
24:41
Speaker 1: the truth is, even as you and I are sitting here,
24:44
Speaker 1: we're embodied people. We have bodies, and there's a way
24:49
Speaker 1: that you and I know each other pretty well, and
24:51
Speaker 1: so we're even working to co regulate in this space
24:55
Speaker 1: right here, because we're support for each other in some ways.
24:59
Speaker 1: We're friends, and we've known each other for a long time,
25:03
Speaker 1: and so that just as a reminder that that's the work.
25:07
Speaker 1: You know, that's the process. Whether it's a friendship or
25:11
Speaker 1: a marriage, or a church relationship or a work relationship
25:16
Speaker 1: or whatever it is, it's that work of remembering, oh,
25:19
Speaker 1: I have a body, and this experience is impacting my
25:22
Speaker 1: body in some way, and that feeling of unsettledness, or
25:27
Speaker 1: that feeling of lack of safety, or that feeling of
25:30
Speaker 1: I'm needing to live in fantasy or I can't you know,
25:34
Speaker 1: I'm afraid all the time, that's your body telling you data.
25:40
Speaker 1: Like you said this, all these data points and to
25:43
Speaker 1: start really reading our life, you know, what is that like?
25:49
Speaker 1: To really read our lives? You and I, Janet are
25:53
Speaker 1: I shared with you before we you know, kind of
25:56
Speaker 1: landed on this particular topic. I think maybe it was
25:59
Speaker 1: even within this conversation my sort of rough sketch of
26:04
Speaker 1: the brain anatomy and then the different modalities that attach
26:09
Speaker 1: to which parts of the brain. And I wondered if,
26:13
Speaker 1: as we're kind of working on closing up here, if
26:15
Speaker 1: you could talk a little bit about some of these modalities.
26:19
Speaker 1: Like obviously you're you're a license mental health provider, and
26:23
Speaker 1: you do EMDR and talk therapy, and you have some
26:26
Speaker 1: other modalities that you're also newly working on. And I
26:31
Speaker 1: do coaching, and so my modalities are more towards goal
26:36
Speaker 1: setting and movement toward post traumatic growth and resilience and
26:40
Speaker 1: things like that. But I just wondered if you even
26:44
Speaker 1: just have some cursory thoughts around modalities and ways that
26:47
Speaker 1: if people really feel stuck and they just don't know
26:49
Speaker 1: how to engage, where do they start thinking about where
26:54
Speaker 1: these different things work on our brain, because it's all
26:56
Speaker 1: about really our brain.
26:58
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, Yeah, And I want to before I answer
27:03
Speaker 2: that question, I want to go back just a minute
27:05
Speaker 2: or two. Okay, when when you were talking about when
27:08
Speaker 2: we're feeling like taking a breath, you know, you said,
27:11
Speaker 2: and I thought, you know, if I'm sitting here with
27:14
Speaker 2: you talking and I'm like super hungry or I really
27:18
Speaker 2: really really need to go to the bathroom, I'm not
27:21
Speaker 2: going to be able to attend to you. I'm not
27:24
Speaker 2: going to I'm going to be sitting here thinking when
27:26
Speaker 2: is this going to be over? I need to go
27:27
Speaker 2: to the bathroom. And so I think we can all
27:30
Speaker 2: probably relate to times we've been in meetings and we've
27:33
Speaker 2: been really hungry or needed to go to the bathroom.
27:35
Speaker 2: And so this is just that's a really simplistic way
27:39
Speaker 2: of looking at some of these other things of what's
27:42
Speaker 2: happening in our bodies impacts our brains and how present
27:46
Speaker 2: we can be too. And so if we're living in
27:49
Speaker 2: this constant state of stress, that's going to impact how
27:53
Speaker 2: available we are and how present we can be with
27:56
Speaker 2: other people, you know, and with ourselves.
27:59
Speaker 1: Can I just add to that that reminded me. I
28:01
Speaker 1: wanted to say, sleep, food, and exercise tesse, even if
28:08
Speaker 1: it's again just walking, you know, walking to the mailbox.
28:11
Speaker 1: I'm not talking about like high level running miles or
28:14
Speaker 1: anything like that, but just moving our bodies. These are
28:18
Speaker 1: such and to grow pieces of healing. Like they feel
28:24
Speaker 1: so mundane and dumb, silly, you know whatever, but they
28:30
Speaker 1: are so important. It's that concept I always go back
28:34
Speaker 1: in my mind because I hate, I personally abhor the ordinary,
28:38
Speaker 1: the mundane, you know. The I don't tell me like
28:41
Speaker 1: I know that, but it is to my great chagarn.
28:45
Speaker 1: It is keeping it simple, going to the simple things,
28:48
Speaker 1: you know. And so I just wanted to remind as
28:51
Speaker 1: we're kind of closing that piece of it, that those
28:53
Speaker 1: little things go to sleep. That's a promise you can
28:57
Speaker 1: keep yourself, is go to bed when you say you're
28:59
Speaker 1: going to go to bed, you know, and don't start
29:01
Speaker 1: one of those conversations that's going to get you agitated
29:04
Speaker 1: or amped up. It can wait till tomorrow.
29:06
Speaker 2: Pretty much every client when I see them for the
29:09
Speaker 2: first time or maybe the second session, and sometimes we'll
29:13
Speaker 2: come back to this quite frequently, but I talk about
29:15
Speaker 2: that the acronym seeds, which you know, maybe is familiar
29:19
Speaker 2: to people, but sleep, exercise, education, diet, and social and
29:26
Speaker 2: we've talked about some of those. We've talked about social
29:28
Speaker 2: connection being really important. What we eat, exercise, the education
29:33
Speaker 2: could be just a hobby, it could be just something
29:36
Speaker 2: that we're using our mind for. And then sleep is
29:38
Speaker 2: so important. Yeah, those things which yeah, it sounds simple
29:42
Speaker 2: and people are like yeah, yeah, yeah, but it really
29:44
Speaker 2: does make a big difference and people that I mean,
29:47
Speaker 2: there's studies about people that are sleep deprived. Ye you
29:50
Speaker 2: know sometimes I forget what the number of hours of
29:53
Speaker 2: rest a night that they were getting or not getting. Yeah,
29:56
Speaker 2: but it impairs their driving, just as if they were drunk.
30:00
Speaker 2: So those things really really are important and they do
30:04
Speaker 2: impact our ability or for students taking tests and those
30:07
Speaker 2: kinds of things. So to transition to different modalities, I think, yeah, talking,
30:12
Speaker 2: I think primarily talk therapy, and also looking at what
30:17
Speaker 2: are our thoughts, what are our emotions? You know, you know,
30:21
Speaker 2: do I have irrational thoughts? I mean this is all talk,
30:24
Speaker 2: but it's like really targeting in on am I believing
30:28
Speaker 2: something that's not really true and how can I change that?
30:32
Speaker 2: Or and then also just focusing on breathing, focusing sometimes
30:38
Speaker 2: in session, you know we'll just pause for a minute
30:40
Speaker 2: or two and just take some deep breaths, or imagining
30:45
Speaker 2: a safe place even if we can't go there. I mean,
30:48
Speaker 2: hopefully you have places here in town, even that you
30:51
Speaker 2: can go to or in your home and you're wherever
30:53
Speaker 2: you're at, or it could be places that you like
30:56
Speaker 2: to go on vacation that feel really RESTful to you.
31:00
Speaker 2: But hopefully people have places. But we can close our
31:02
Speaker 2: eyes and we can imagine, you know, being in that
31:05
Speaker 2: place and taking some deep breaths, and that can help.
31:09
Speaker 2: That's an embodied practice that helps. And doing e MDR
31:14
Speaker 2: is a modality where we're not talking as much. We're identifying,
31:17
Speaker 2: you know, the disturbing memories and then we're kind of
31:21
Speaker 2: going through one by one and identifying what's what's the
31:24
Speaker 2: negative belief that I came to believe about myself because
31:28
Speaker 2: of this, and what would I like to believe instead,
31:32
Speaker 2: And then you know, doing whether it's eye movements or
31:35
Speaker 2: holding the little they call them tappers, I call them
31:37
Speaker 2: buzzers that left right, And I'll often tell clients, like
31:41
Speaker 2: with walking too, that's that's left right. It's crossing the midline, walking, biking, swimming,
31:47
Speaker 2: those kinds of things we can be doing, and that's
31:51
Speaker 2: actually helping our bodies and our brains to work through things.
31:55
Speaker 2: Doing those kinds of things outside of session or like
31:58
Speaker 2: the butterfly hug, you know, just tapping you know, right left,
32:02
Speaker 2: you know, on our shoulders. Those kinds of things are helpful.
32:06
Speaker 2: And then you know too, with E. M. D R.
32:09
Speaker 2: At the end of each session, we stop by, you know, pausing,
32:15
Speaker 2: getting grounded, and part of that is closing your eyes,
32:18
Speaker 2: imagining you're in your calm place and taking some deep breaths,
32:23
Speaker 2: you know, because that's helping our bodies to relax and
32:27
Speaker 2: our brains a picture of that.
32:30
Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm thinking too about and the reason that
32:36
Speaker 1: I brought this brain piece into it is. And you
32:41
Speaker 1: correct me if I'm not understanding this right or if
32:44
Speaker 1: you have a different understanding about it. But my understanding
32:48
Speaker 1: is that the earlier the trauma or the earlier the
32:52
Speaker 1: the experience that led to the cognitive distortion, that that
32:56
Speaker 1: new leaf that's not quite in sync with truth about
33:00
Speaker 1: who I am or who God says I am. The
33:02
Speaker 1: earlier that happens, the deeper we really kind of need
33:05
Speaker 1: a modality to reach. So speaking of like brainstem a
33:10
Speaker 1: migdala versus the higher brain or the later more developed brain,
33:16
Speaker 1: the prefrontal cortex, and the many the pieces in between.
33:21
Speaker 1: I'm not a brain expert. But if say a person
33:25
Speaker 1: you know is really reactive and it's really stemming from
33:30
Speaker 1: a trauma from early early childhood or even infancy, would
33:34
Speaker 1: you say em DR is is going to help that
33:38
Speaker 1: directly or is there a different modality that you would
33:41
Speaker 1: suggest or something else that you would suggest a person do.
33:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think EMDR is a good modality. There's other
33:50
Speaker 2: things like brain spotting. I am not trained in that,
33:53
Speaker 2: but it's a similar type of a thing, or somatic
33:56
Speaker 2: experiencing where you're doing things more with your body. Yeah,
34:00
Speaker 2: there are other modalities out there that you can explore.
34:04
Speaker 2: I'm not even up with. I just saw I've seen
34:07
Speaker 2: something recently about a new one that I was going
34:10
Speaker 2: to sign up for a lunch and learn next week
34:12
Speaker 2: to learn more about that. But yeah, there's all kinds
34:15
Speaker 2: of new things that are that are more working on
34:18
Speaker 2: our bodies and even thinking about if we just pause,
34:21
Speaker 2: close our eyes, take some deep breaths, that's calming our body,
34:26
Speaker 2: which calms our brain, and that does calm our nervous
34:29
Speaker 2: system down. If we're in that heightened you know, fight
34:33
Speaker 2: or fight kind of state, if we can pause and
34:37
Speaker 2: get our you know, sympathetic nervous system to kind of
34:40
Speaker 2: calm down. That does help us, you know, our bodies
34:45
Speaker 2: to be calmer and us to think in a calmer
34:48
Speaker 2: way because when we're under a lot of stress, Yeah,
34:52
Speaker 2: we don't have access to the the prefrontal cortex, that
34:56
Speaker 2: later part of our brain to develop.
34:58
Speaker 1: The leader part of the brain. Yeah. Yeah, that can kind.
35:01
Speaker 2: Of kind of the CEO, the CEO part.
35:05
Speaker 1: Of the brain. Yeah. That makes me think of Sherry
35:07
Speaker 1: Keefer and she has a great she has great.
35:11
Speaker 2: Tools to illustrations with that. Yeah, exactly.
35:16
Speaker 1: I'm also just thinking of meditation and prayer and pausing
35:25
Speaker 1: the art of stillness, you know, when we think about like,
35:30
Speaker 1: here's what I want to say, And actually a client
35:33
Speaker 1: just shared this particular statement with me recently, which I
35:36
Speaker 1: thought was so good, is that self care isn't necessarily
35:38
Speaker 1: pedicures and chocolate cake. It can be I mean, you know,
35:43
Speaker 1: but I you know, we don't really talk a whole
35:46
Speaker 1: lot about self care as a thing because it's such
35:49
Speaker 1: a buzzword. But this idea that you know, of taking
35:52
Speaker 1: care of ourselves. Really, I keep thinking, and this is
35:56
Speaker 1: probably my nursing background, but I keep thinking about hygiene,
35:59
Speaker 1: you know, sleep, hygiene. Most of us have learned the
36:03
Speaker 1: importance of washing our bodies and our hair and you know,
36:07
Speaker 1: brushing our teeth and having good physical hygiene, but we
36:11
Speaker 1: don't think about emotional hygiene or psychological hygiene, and that
36:18
Speaker 1: that really is part of taking care of ourselves is
36:24
Speaker 1: considering what do I need and how do I get?
36:27
Speaker 1: What do I need? What I need? And believing ourselves.
36:31
Speaker 1: You know, I have this conversation with clients a lot too,
36:34
Speaker 1: is if you feel like you need something, you probably do.
36:38
Speaker 1: You know, you're not too much, you don't need too much,
36:41
Speaker 1: You're right on time, you are right where you need
36:45
Speaker 1: to be, and let's see if we can kind of
36:48
Speaker 1: process this out together. And again coming back to the
36:51
Speaker 1: support piece and how important that is.
36:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, And when you talked about like meditation, prayer, journaling,
36:58
Speaker 2: those kinds of things, and I think of different spiritual
37:01
Speaker 2: practices even like silence and solitude or meditating on scripture,
37:06
Speaker 2: those kinds of things. Those do regulate our nervous system too,
37:10
Speaker 2: and helps us to connect to God, helps us to
37:13
Speaker 2: connect outside of ourselves, and I think that's really helpful.
37:17
Speaker 2: I think we can think about God or Jesus or
37:22
Speaker 2: you know, the Holy Spirit as being people that we're
37:27
Speaker 2: connected to too, you know. I mean they're not physical
37:31
Speaker 2: people here with us that we can touch like, and
37:34
Speaker 2: we do need physical people with us too, and we
37:37
Speaker 2: also have that connection to God.
37:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, well, thank you so much, Janet. And you know,
37:46
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about the people that are listening today. There's
37:50
Speaker 1: some exhausted people, there's some anxious people listening, there's some
37:56
Speaker 1: people pleasers listening, there's some perfectionist listening over functioners. You know,
38:03
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, rest is not coming to them, or
38:07
Speaker 1: the feeling of safety is not coming to them. Anything
38:11
Speaker 1: that you want to say to somebody listening directly, like
38:14
Speaker 1: what would your heart want to say to a listener
38:17
Speaker 1: that's in any of those states.
38:20
Speaker 2: I mean we've said this before, but just take a
38:23
Speaker 2: deep breath. Yeah, you know, just pause and take a
38:27
Speaker 2: deep breath, take another deep breath, just doing something like that,
38:36
Speaker 2: and then think about what do I need to do now.
38:40
Speaker 2: I think if we are feeling overwhelmed, or we're people
38:43
Speaker 2: pleaser and I have to do this or that or
38:45
Speaker 2: the other thing, or I'm anxious about whatever this is
38:49
Speaker 2: coming up, if we can pause, put that little pause
38:53
Speaker 2: in there to take a breath or two or three.
38:57
Speaker 2: That's going to help our bodies to calm down, to
39:00
Speaker 2: help our brains to come back online, so that we'll
39:02
Speaker 2: be better able to decide, Okay, what what do I
39:06
Speaker 2: need to do next? And maybe that's taking a nap,
39:10
Speaker 2: Maybe that's calling somebody for support, or maybe walking on,
39:15
Speaker 2: putting on our shoes and walking out to the mailbox,
39:17
Speaker 2: getting some fresh air. Yeah, yeah, yeah, thank you. I
39:21
Speaker 2: think being out of nature is huge too.
39:24
Speaker 1: Agreed, you know, and I would say similar things and
39:29
Speaker 1: just remind the listeners that it's not You're not behind.
39:35
Speaker 1: There are very very good reasons that you are where
39:39
Speaker 1: you are. You make sense, and you are worthy and
39:45
Speaker 1: precious and and we are we would love to come
39:49
Speaker 1: alongside you in any way that we could be helpful.
39:51
Speaker 1: We have groups and individual coaching and therapy and spiritual
39:56
Speaker 1: direction if you're local here in Lincoln the brass Good.
40:00
Speaker 1: Janet is a licencenial health provider. But Janet, I would
40:04
Speaker 1: like for you if you wouldn't mind sharing about your
40:07
Speaker 1: ideal client or the people that you tend to meet with,
40:10
Speaker 1: and if you have openings or not, like do you
40:12
Speaker 1: have openings or a waitlist? I know that there's particularity
40:15
Speaker 1: around that.
40:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm pretty full right now. I usually will try
40:20
Speaker 2: to work in a person or two if they really
40:23
Speaker 2: need that. And I'm licensed in Nebraska, so I can
40:25
Speaker 2: see people anywhere in the state of Nebraska. So if
40:28
Speaker 2: you're in Lincoln, I can see you in person. If
40:31
Speaker 2: you're elsewhere in the state, I can do telehealth, but
40:34
Speaker 2: I can't cross state lines. And my primary client is
40:40
Speaker 2: are women who have gone through betrayal in their marriages.
40:43
Speaker 2: So if there's pornography, if there's been affairs those kinds
40:47
Speaker 2: of things in their marriage, or if they were engaged
40:49
Speaker 2: and this happened. I've had a few clients where it
40:53
Speaker 2: was there it was an engagement situation, but that's really
40:57
Speaker 2: my focus area. I have specialized and certification and that
41:02
Speaker 2: through ab SETS, the Association for Partners of Betrayal Trauma
41:08
Speaker 2: Specialists something Specialists.
41:10
Speaker 1: I think something app sets.
41:13
Speaker 2: So that's really my focus for people that have anxiety, depression,
41:19
Speaker 2: those other kinds of things. There are other really good
41:22
Speaker 2: therapists here in town too that I'll I can refer
41:25
Speaker 2: you to, but I've decided to really focus in, you know,
41:29
Speaker 2: just with working with women who have been experienced betrayal
41:32
Speaker 2: in their marriages, so that's my focus area.
41:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, beautiful. Well, thank you, thank you for the work
41:39
Speaker 1: that you do in the world. And i'm seeing your
41:42
Speaker 1: book on I mean, your many books are behind you,
41:45
Speaker 1: but the one with the Horse and the Mole and
41:50
Speaker 1: I can't remember the name of that book, but just
41:52
Speaker 1: how a study of a support you are and you've
41:56
Speaker 1: been to me and I know you are your clients too,
41:59
Speaker 1: And thank you for showing up today for the podcast
42:01
Speaker 1: and having this conversation with me, and I really appreciate you.
42:06
Speaker 1: Any final words before we finish up our conversation.
42:11
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. It was great. I always love
42:14
Speaker 2: getting to do things with you. And yeah, yeah, just
42:20
Speaker 2: love the work that we all get to do here
42:22
Speaker 2: together as a collective here at the Broken and Beautiful.
42:26
Speaker 2: It's just a great place.
42:28
Speaker 1: I do too. Thank you, Jenna, and we'll do this again. Yeah,
42:38
Speaker 1: as we come to the end of this conversation, maybe
42:41
Speaker 1: the invitation is not to leave with ten new things
42:44
Speaker 1: you need to work on. Maybe it's simply to notice
42:48
Speaker 1: one thing, one place where your body is asking for care,
42:53
Speaker 1: one relationship where you feel more like yourself, maybe one
42:58
Speaker 1: old belief you are beginning to question. Maybe one small
43:04
Speaker 1: promise you can make to yourself and keep healing can
43:09
Speaker 1: feel enormous when we look at the whole road at once,
43:13
Speaker 1: But most of us don't heal by transforming everything overnight.
43:18
Speaker 1: None of us do. As a matter of fact. We
43:21
Speaker 1: heal through repetition, through safe connection, through telling ourselves the truth,
43:28
Speaker 1: and then practicing the truth in small, embodied or practical ways.
43:35
Speaker 1: We practice resting, We practice saying no, asking for help,
43:42
Speaker 1: noticing what we want or need, letting someone safe close,
43:49
Speaker 1: And when we miss it and we will, we begin
43:52
Speaker 1: again with compassion. Our healing doesn't have to be impressive
43:57
Speaker 1: to be real. Sometimes healing looks like taking a breath
44:00
Speaker 1: before answering, going to bed when you said you would,
44:04
Speaker 1: walking to the mailbox, calling a friend, sitting quietly with God,
44:10
Speaker 1: letting yourself just breathe and enjoy something without immediately wondering
44:17
Speaker 1: when will it disappear. These ordinary moments matter because over
44:23
Speaker 1: time they become evidence to your system, to your body,
44:27
Speaker 1: to your brain, to your heart, evidence that you can
44:32
Speaker 1: trust yourself, evidence that your body can learn something new.
44:39
Speaker 1: It becomes evidence that safety, connection and even joy can
44:43
Speaker 1: become more familiar. Thank you for being here with us
44:48
Speaker 1: today on Echoes and Edges, the Broken and Beautiful Podcast.
44:53
Speaker 1: Until next time, pay attention to what brings you back
44:56
Speaker 1: to yourself, and remember small not mean insignificant. Small is
45:02
Speaker 1: often exactly where healing begins, even if you're the only
45:08
Speaker 1: one who knows about it. If this episode resonates with you,
45:17
Speaker 1: follow or subscribe to Echoes and Edges on your favorite
45:21
Speaker 1: podcast platform, Leave a five star review, and share with
45:24
Speaker 1: a friend who might need a gentle invitation to self understanding.
45:28
Speaker 1: Echoes and Edges is produced and edited by Stephen R. Sanders.
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Speaker 1: Music promoted by Envado