Latest / The Chiro Money Show / 052 | Q&A at a Money Festival Pt. 2
Transcript
- Scott Campbell: Hello and welcome back to the Chiro Money Show, where we help chiropractors make better financial decisions so they can build stability in their finances and a lifestyle they love. Today I'm your host, Scott Campbell, financial planner with Align Wealth. Just me today here on the mic for the introduction. Today is part two of our little mini-series of our time down at Futureproof down in California, Huntington Beach. If you missed part one last week, encourage you to go back and check that out. But as a quick recap, incredible wealth. festival, not a conference, a festival down in Huntington Beach. But while we were down there, had such a great opportunity to connect and reconnect with so many great advisors, planners across Canada, and took the opportunity to do these little mini interviews. Kind of no agenda, off the cuff questions, just wanted to kind of get some different perspectives and energy on the show. So last week we had five advisors on the show. Today we got five more for you with an exception here. So let me list those off for you in terms of who you're going to hear from today on today's show. First up, we have Julia Chung from Spring Planning. She's based out of Vancouver. Then we have Marcus Meuse from Canacord Genuity. He's here locally with me in Edmonton. Third, we have Cam Smith, who runs Clarify Wealth out of Mississauga, Ontario. Then we have Connor Hewson from PWL Capital. He's based out of Saskatchewan. And then to close out the conversation, we have Mark Gaulkner from Dimensional Fund Advisors. So Mark is kind of, like I said, the odd one out of this group. He's actually, he actually works at the fund company, Dimensional. So dimensional full disclosure is the fun company that we use to design our clients' portfolios. We thought it'd be a great opportunity since we had the chance to to interview him and ask him a few questions as it relates to investing and kind of behavior around investing. So hope you get something out of all these conversations. I'll keep the introduction nice and short and sweet. Hope you enjoy the conversations today. We'll start things off with Julia Chung from Spring Planning. speaker-0: We are here at Future Proof with Julia Chung, a good friend of ours, and wanted to ask her a few questions, but before we do, tell us a little bit about tell our listeners a little bit about yourself. speaker-1: I'm Julia Chung and I lead spring planning and I'm currently the chair of the Financial Planning Association of Canada. speaker-0: The chair, that's like I have president in my in my mind. speaker-1: I'm also that, but I like I like being a piece of furniture. speaker-0: Okay. Insights into Julia's humor. Here we go. Buckle in, people. All right. First question for you. What is the worst piece of financial advice that you continually hear given out? speaker-1: Worst? Wow. I have to think about that. speaker-0: Or something you want to pick on. speaker-1: Something I want to pick on. I mean generally it's like it's it's that hot stock stuff, you know, it's like my god, you know what you should do is buy this thing. It did twenty percent in the last six months. And like I'm gonna I'm gonna ride my whole plan on that, being the smartest person in the room. I'm like, hmm, okay. That's not a good long term plan. Yeah. speaker-0: Yeah. A lot of recency bias going on there. Well among other things. speaker-1: And just like this sort of idea that the most important financial decision you can make is the one where you show everybody else that you're better than them. And it's like nobody cares about that, right? Like your grandchildren, great grandchildren in the future are never gonna be like, Hey, look at grandpa's tax return. That was wild. That that guy was super important to me. Like that is th the it's just the Paying attention to the wrong things and make giving them a sense of value that doesn't exist. Yes, we want to be technically competent and thoughtful with our finances. We wanna make good decisions, but a good decision isn't I made the most money in the last three months and now I can buy, I don't know, Ferraris and show my bros. But it's really like what kind of life am I building? And anything that is in the wrong section is that's the worst advice that makes me mad. speaker-0: Yeah, cool, cool. So you typically work with pretty complex situations and mostly affluent clients because of that, right? Like Yeah, speaker-1: Yeah. More money, more problems. Yeah. speaker-0: thank you. Thank you for quoting Meggie. speaker-1: Yeah you bet. speaker-0: do you see any major changes in that, like working with that demographic versus like mass market like regular people? speaker-1: Well speaker-0: Like differences? Yeah, like in the way that they approach like are those people making the same mistakes or have the same beliefs about the way they approach money? Yes. So there's n like just 'cause I have a whole bunch of money, like speaker-1: does not change the person you are, right? Like and and what I'm I think I think one of the things is is people have more money, they do have the ability, hopefully usually, to spend a little bit more time on the things that I do want to talk to them about, which is like what's meaningful to you and how do we design the life that you're gonna build. We have the ability to do that in a way that's different for regular people. Regular people are really quite realistically concerned about can I make ends meet and what's what's the maximum I can do with this ceiling of money that I'm working with, people with a lot more affluence like They still come from the same places and have the same problems, but the decision gets r a lot weirder when it's like, okay, now I have all the options. Mm-hmm. It's it's harder to make a decision with all the options versus I am limited to these options, let the ceiling of the amount of money I have tell me what I can do. Now I'm saying, Well, the ceilings the sky, basically. What do want to do? That's actually a harder question to answer. Yeah. You know, that internal locus of control versus the external one, all of a sudden it's all on you. And you're like and they're like, wait I wasn't ready for this. speaker-0: Yeah. Yeah. For clients that maybe end up in that situation that did not have a team supporting them, do you find it's harder for them to to like find that that group that can encourage them to go internal and really like encourage those strong decisions? speaker-1: of course. I mean there's especially when you come from a socio economic background and all of your friends come from a socio economic background that's kind of in the same place. Mm-hmm. And you are now in a different one? Who do you talk to? Who do like I don't know now, none of my friends are dealing with what I'm dealing with. I can't say who's your a lawyer, right? They're like, I don't have a lawyer, what are you talking about? Right. And it's it's a lot harder to navigate, not only on left finding the right team members, but also how do I even approach this subject? And then there's all this working through your own mind about the belief systems that you had about money that were very, very useful and the skills that you built around your money that were incredibly useful when there was less of it and now there's so much of it. Like nice problem to have. Yeah. Right? Like I'm not expecting people are gonna cry for these folks and they're not expecting it either, which is also why they're not presenting the problems to other people 'cause they're like, this feels like a real like that's not cool. I don't feel like a cool person being like, look at my big problems with all my money. Like it's it's really tough. Yeah. speaker-0: Can you earn enough? Can someone earn enough where they don't have to have a cash flow plan? speaker-1: No. speaker-0: More money, more problems. But regardless of how much you earn, you need to understand where your money's going. speaker-1: Yeah. And even if it's some degree. I like if people think the purpose of a cash flow plan or a retirement plan is to live within that ceiling of scarcity, but that's not necessarily the case. We're still making decisions, right? Like you don't want to make a bad tax decision. Guess what? Your cash flow plan has a whole lot to do with making a good tax decision. You want to leave something for your kids, you want to plan for the future, anything like that. It's still with s everything is cash flow. speaker-0: Thank you. Okay, last question for you. Well, maybe it's two part, but if you had a hundred thousand dollars, how would you invest it? Not in this is not investment advice, but like just you got a hundred thousand dollars, how do you invest it? speaker-1: The same way I invest everything else. speaker-0: Same way you'd invest a million? Yes. Ten million? Yes. Doesn't change? Okay. speaker-1: No? speaker-0: All equity? For you? speaker-1: Well, currently it's kinda like eighty, twenty. Okay. Yeah. Okay. I'm old. Yeah. speaker-0: Love it. Love it. speaker-1: But it's but it's boring, you know, like your portfolio your investments should be deadly boring. So boring. So dull. speaker-0: There's nothing sexy about it. speaker-1: No, if you're if you're getting your sexy from your investment portfolio, you need to really look internally about what is going on in your life. speaker-0: amazing. Thank you. Any closing thoughts on drugs? Yeah. speaker-1: Ha ha. speaker-0: So J Julia was on the Wealthy Barber podcast a while back and I think Dave was trying to lead you into do you care about where your clients spend their money? And we it was very clear that you do not. I I I speaker-1: I don't know. speaker-0: even if they're spending it on things that we would not spend it on. We don't speaker-1: Yeah. I don't care f speaker-0: judge. speaker-1: we don't judge. We don't judge. We just wanna know what's important to you and how we plan for it in the future. That's right. Let's go. All is speaker-0: And we do cash flow planning. Yes. Okay. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you. speaker-1: Alright, we're here at Future Proof. Let's start with your name. With speaker-0: Marcus Meuse. Cancor Genuity Wealth Management. I run Muse Wealth Partners Edmonton, Alberta. speaker-1: Another eminent guy here. speaker-0: And original we're both original FPAC members, right? speaker-1: That's right. Both original FPAC members. That's right. Twenty nineteen. speaker-0: May nineteen, yeah. As soon as we saw our tribe calling, we rejoined it. speaker-1: That's right. That's right. Having fun so far at Future Proof? speaker-0: Yeah, this is my fourth one since twenty twenty three and you keep getting bigger. And you it's just meeting meeting the people, meeting the like-minded people. Yeah, breakthrough speaker-1: That's best part, right? Great. speaker-0: talks this morning, talking with other advisors, a couple of your partner Chris as w was at my table, and then also a couple of American advisors and talking about challenges we all face. delivering client consistency of client advice. That was it. That was our topic we we discussed. speaker-1: Very cool, very cool. All right, should we get in a few questions? Yeah. Sounds good. First question: how do you like to explain risk to your clients? speaker-0: risk. I like to be a real doomer and just sort of tell people what can go wrong. 'cause I mean we've been I started in two thousand eight, so I saw what could go wrong and I saw what happens when things go really, really wrong. And we haven't seen that in so long now. We got this whole generation of younger investors and also older investors that just it's gone so far in the rear view mirror, they're not thinking about what's the dollar impact of a thirty five percent crash. Yeah. What if it takes five, ten years to recover? I talk about that kind of stuff with clients. We still invest in the markets because that's the best way to to meet your your long-term needs, but we we have to we have to pair that with you know how does that volatility align with our objectives, our time horizons. speaker-1: For sure. It's been an interesting time, hasn't it, over the last five, ten years? Like a couple minor down years, but generally speaking it's been a pretty positive experience for investors, especially if you're a younger investor. You haven't really experienced a major market downturn yet, Yeah. Yeah. What is one piece of financial advice that you hear quite often that you feel is a little bit on the overrated side? speaker-0: Four percent rule? speaker-1: for our listeners, real quick, like high level, what's what's the four percent roll? speaker-0: Four percent it's not a rule. speaker-1: Ha ha not a roll. It's rule of thought. speaker-0: Maybe it a kind of a guideline. Sure. what's it as I said, Bill Bengen came up with it some years ago and it was kind of more a way of thinking of, you know, if you're gonna retire with X amount of dollars You're gonna need a certain amount and he estimated at that time roughly four percent could be a sustainable withdrawal over time, increasing from that point on. and your money will last. And of course, everything's changed since then. You know, interest rates have changed and inflation and all sorts of things. You really need a financial plan. Like you can't just go by a rule like that. You need yeah to see a long term financial plan, how does that impact what what happens to your your retirement cash flows? speaker-1: For sure. Yep. Should we talk business owners? speaker-0: Business owners, yeah, yeah. I have a lot of clients who earn money through a corporation, whether they're sort of a business, they run a business or if it's professionals like doctors, lawyers. speaker-1: professional corporation. What's a what's a common mistake that you s that you see kind of happening on a regular basis? Maybe it's with existing clients or more maybe more so like new client, kind of what's what's happening in their financial life specific to their to their business and their corporation that you see is an opportunity to correct some things that has been done maybe incorrectly in the past. speaker-0: Yeah, I'm like new and old, I think the biggest thing is trust your financial planner as part of your you know, your overall team of experts. Your tax accountant is not the person who should be telling you, this is what you do, this is how much you take out of your company, how much you pay yourself, dividend yourself. That kind of advice should come in conjunction with a financial planner who's not just looking at the current year, but the long term. Yeah. And you know, to get to your question, there was an there was advice that worked really well for many for decades, which was leave as much money in your corporation and invest it in there. Yeah, speaker-1: We still hear that. Yeah. Quite often. Yeah. speaker-0: a lot of tax accounts they're even though they they should know the new new rules around what's the what's the term again? well the passive investment income, right? Right. A AI. Yep. It it just doesn't make as much sense anymore to keep that much in your corporation. And I'm still seeing young doctors making a lot of revenue in their corporations, still paying themselves fairly meager personal salaries, trying to keep as much in there when they could be doing so much more, maxing out their T FSA's, RSPs, even building up a little bit of non-registered savings, but their tax account's probably telling them, you know, short term, this will cost you more tax, but then they're not thinking long term. What's gonna happen when they have several million dollars of passive investments in that corporation? eating into their eating into their their small business deduction. speaker-1: Right. And you're relying on I mean potentially like tax changes could happen in the future, right? You don't at that point you only have maybe one lever to pull if all your wealth is tied up in your corporation. And you know, what happens if tax changes, you know, tax laws change in the in the future? The way we like to think about it, I'm sure you would agree, Marcus, is that we want to see clients get to retirement with multiple levers to pull. We can draw from RSP, T FSA, maybe non registered on the personal side, corporate corporate accounts as well. Like that's how you develop a robust tax plan to come retirement. speaker-0: One young doctor client had this, we had that conversation, he was in agreement, and he said, I also think, you know, just the way the government is kind of leaning in a lot of their decisions, they seem to favor, they seem to not be favoring small, they I mean not favoring high net worth small business owners corporations. They they might take things away from they might take more things away from business owners, whereas they're not gonna touch the RSP. They're not gonna make that worse. Yeah. speaker-1: That's right. speaker-0: that's very popular. TFSA is very popular. They're not gonna make that worse, but they could make, they could add extra layers. Of complexity to earning money in a corporation, investing money in a corporation. So maybe it makes more sense just to not allow too much to build up in there. speaker-1: Yeah, for sure. Any final closing thoughts here, Marcus? speaker-0: Yeah, no, I'm I'm actually looking forward to the breakthrough talks today. I've just I've got one coming up in a few minutes. It's ahead of shaping wealth, which should be pretty interesting. we we actually have one scheduled right now and we're doing this. speaker-1: We're doing this instead. Supposed to be we're supposed to be it in a big tent somewhere on in a at a very small table with lots of people around us for a one on one conversation, so we decided to do this. speaker-0: Loud. Very loud in there. speaker-1: Yeah. Well thanks Marcus, appreciate it. speaker-0: Future proof twenty twenty six. Let's before we dive in, let's just start off with your name, name of your firm, and where you're based out of. speaker-1: I am Cameron Smith. I'm from Clarify Wealth in Mississauga, Ontario. speaker-0: And this is your fourth future. speaker-1: My fourth future proof. I keep coming back. I can't can't get away from the sunshine and the the atmosphere down here. Yeah. speaker-0: w aside from the atmosphere, but let's expand on that. What what what what truly keeps bringing you back aside from the nice hunting in beach sun? speaker-1: just the idea of of getting together with all sorts of advisors from it used to be just the States, then Canada, and now it's really around the world that come down here and the people that self-select into coming to an event like this are the kind of people that have so much to share and so much to learn from that it's an absolute no-brainer when I look at my calendars that this is where I want to be, these are the people I wanna hang out with, learn from, interact with, and cultivate relationships with. speaker-0: You mentioned before we hit record that you're you're very interested in in kind of the behavioral finance side of of money and how we as humans probably interact with money on a day-to-day basis, how we think about money. There's a lot of different areas that we can go with this, but the first question I'll ask is around kind of investing. When when it comes to when it comes to investing, how do you like to explain risk, especially from a behavior standpoint, to your clients? speaker-1: Yeah, so risk has many different facets. and the first thing we do is we always start off with a proper risk tolerance questionnaire. So when I say proper, a lot of firms have generic ones that are made by compliance and legal. but there's a couple ones that are legit legitimately backed by psychologists and have decades of empirical evidence behind them. starting with those ones and just finding out what someone's actual temperament is for risk, how legitimately are they do they look at risk in their lives, make sure that that's the starting point for any asset allocation, investment strategy, or financial plan to begin with. Then the next thing like when we do those plans, honestly having a good conversation about how much risks you actually need to take 'cause so important more often than not. You might have a risk tolerance of this, but you only need to take it up to here. So is that something you really want to do? and just make sure that it just fits with the lifestyle 'cause at the end of the day, your head hits the pillow, you go to sleep. So if you're not aligned with the amount of risk you need to take or have to take and what just makes you feel comfortable, what makes having dinner with your partner, your family, or anything like that, or just head hitting the pillow at night and sleeping well. What is that thing? And then let's implement. Let's plan around that. Plan around you and who you are and then go from there. speaker-0: What do you think it takes to to have your clients or just investors in general stay in their seats when it comes to volatility in the market? Which and to be fair, like in in recent memory, we haven't really experienced a whole lot of there's a few have been a a few moments of brief concern, I would say, here in the last five years, but nothing nothing major from you know, no lengthy periods of time here in the last five years or maybe longer of extended downturns. But how do you get people to Stay in their seat when when times get challenging. speaker-1: Yeah. I I'm gonna push back a little bit on that question. Yes. There have been downturns. March there was a downturn at the start of the war with Iran. there was tariffs in twenty twenty twenty twenty five. Yeah there's always something that is weird. The markets are voodoo, they make absolutely no sense. But there is always something and when the market's down fifteen percent, ten percent, whatever it was in March, there's a lot of people expecting it to go down twenty percent and twenty twenty or twenty five percent and all this. Yeah. And there's so much chatter on like, this is the way things are gonna go. so there's always a big boogeyman around the corner at at any point. So when I said earlier that the markets are voodoo, they are voodoo. They're absolutely voodoo. But just knowing that ahead of time and not pretending like we have any sort of crystal ball or foresight into how this all exists, the sooner we admit that we don't have any sort of crystal ball or foresight on where the market's gonna go, they're voodoo, they just do their thing. the sooner we understand that and don't try to stay ahead of it, The faster we're gonna be. There's a great book called Winning the Losers Game by Charles D. Ellis. And his he's been writing this book on very I think it's on the eighth edition, but he started writing it in like nineteen seventy-five. And it has held the test of time. It's the idea that tennis is air quote losers game where More points at the amateur level are lost than they're actually gained. So if you can just hit the ball over the net, keep it in the middle, your partner's your opponent's gonna make a mistake and you're gonna get the point. Right. Investing is a very similar thing, whereas we always try to hit the marketing and the discussion on TV or the newspaper or the media is all about hitting that winning shot. But the best performing thing and the best decision you can do is just Not try to do that at all and just stay in your lane, stay with your financial plan and and implement it that way. Yeah. Because the then the other thing is like any financial plan is just based on the idea that we're we as practitioners aren't going to then advise our clients to just start doing some crazy stuff. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: It's so simple. Don't do crazy stuff. Yeah. And keep our clients within the plan and implement around that plan. Yeah. speaker-0: We talked a little bit before again we hit record. You brought up a phrase that we like to use as well, real financial planning. speaker-1: H speaker-0: w in your words, what is a real financial plan and what does it look like to to implement that from your viewpoint? speaker-1: Yeah, so for me, I I look at it as the actual like output of the calculator financial plans that we use, like that's just an appendix. It's the proof that the numbers actually work and are justified. Yeah. But the real plan is like it's it's basically written in Microsoft Word. Like you can't get around it. There's no AI that's gonna get around it. Like you have to create a roadmap for people to implement. plan and make the implementation gap as small as possible. Yep. If I if I think about where I live in that thirty to thirty five to fifty year old business owner era, like thirty-five to fifty year old from a temperament standpoint. sixty eight percent of Canadians and this is true across all geographies basically in the world, but like sixty eight percent of Canadians in that age group do not have a valid will. cross-reference that with thirty-five to fifty year olds also have young kids. Right. The probability of death is pretty low, but the impact of failure is really low. So when I get back where we're bringing this back to financial planning is like will planning is part of the financial plan, but just as much as we can shrink that implementation gap and get people to that spot where they have everything okay and the list of things we say we'll we'll do tomorrow that we have as humans, just gets smaller and smaller. And I would say that that That's somewhere near what a real financial plan is. but it's not a computer output that just shows up and there's fifty pages of charts and stuff. It's how do we actually do it? How do we bring this to life? And how is this not something that just ends up in a desk drawer that yeah, you read two pages of and it's like Yeah, exactly. speaker-0: It can't be a doorstop. Or a one t or a one time event. speaker-1: It's fluid, it's a living document. It's it's constantly going. It's written in pencil, not pen. Everyone's life's gonna change. We always think about five years from now our life is probably gonna be similar to the way it is right now. Yeah. And then we think back five, ten years prior to us and it's like I didn't expect to be doing what I'm doing right now. So it's it's kind of proof of concept that we don't foresee how much our lives actually change. For sure. The cool stuff we're doing. You talked about about what you're doing at Align That Doesn't sound like something you were thinking about ten years ago. That's right. Same with me and Clarify Wealth. Yeah. life changes. Life changes. speaker-0: Changes. speaker-1: Your plan's gotta be fluid and help people adapt that fluidity. Yeah, for sure. speaker-0: Well closing closing thoughts here. I always like to ask this. When it comes there's there's so much advice out there, there's so much noise. What what would you say is maybe something that you hear common in terms of financial advice that you feel is a bit overrated? That you have a maybe a contrarian take on? Anything comes to mind? Yeah. speaker-1: Yeah. There's there's a thing called like the R R S P meltdown strategy. Yes. it sounds like a real buzzword. It sounds like it's incredible and it's something that if you're not doing it, if your advisor's not talking about it, what are they actually doing? Yeah. It's it's a it's a it's more of a meme than anything like RSP meltdown strategy. It sounds like this is something groundbreaking. Like it's a small piece Of a financial plan that on its own is absolutely makes no sense. But in the context of planning, context of who the people are, what they're trying to accomplish, like that's what we're solving for. We're not solving for like incremental tax thing on this narrow, narrow thing. Right. Because that doesn't solve anything when you have the absence of a overall plan. So that's something I would say is bad advice that people hear. And like if you go on YouTube and type in RSP meltdown strategy, you're gonna find a bunch of garbage. Yeah. Like it what are we s what are we trying to do here? speaker-0: Seen that too. Well, enjoy the rest of your of your future proof. Yeah. Hope to see you again here next year, I'm sure. speaker-1: I hope so and I hope I hope we can do this again. I'd be more than happy to sound good. speaker-0: Thank you. All right, we're here at Future Proof Let's let's start with your name. speaker-1: It's Connor Hewson speaker-0: And where are you based out of? speaker-1: so I'm based out of Saskatchewan with PWL Capital, so we are from Vancouver to Halifax now, offices from kind of coast to coast now. speaker-0: Very cool. Yeah. What's one piece of financial advice that you hear often that you would say is maybe a bit overrated? speaker-1: there is you know there's some secret thing you need to have in your portfolio or some s kind of secret sauce that you need to have to be successful, but there is a lot of kind of simple, straightforward strategies that you can follow and live a good life and be successful and meet your meet your goals without taking a lot of risk and without being too fancy. speaker-0: Yeah, I love that. That segue into this question then. If you were starting off, say you have a hundred thousand dollars to invest long term twenty five year time horizon, how are you investing that hundred thousand dollars? What's your portfolio look like? Not investment speaker-1: I'm I'm going to speaker-0: advice. speaker-1: Not investment advice. me personally, I'm young early in my career, happy with my my debt level, feel secure with my debt level. I would since it's long-term money, I'd be putting it all into I'm I'm a hundred percent equity al investor, happy to to have my portfolio cut in half at some point and and keep the course. So I'm putting 100% into DFA 607, which is Ben Felix's favorite portfolio. That's right. speaker-0: That's right. And follow up question to that, if that hundred thousand was say a million, or even five million or more, does that change? Nothing. Nothing changes. speaker-1: No, I put it in the I put it in the in the exact same portfolio, same allocation and auto rebalances. I can just live my life, know that I know that there's gonna be some dips throughout and I'm just gonna kinda keep keep living the same way I am, which is which is really liberating. speaker-0: Next question, let's talk business owners. Okay. What's something that you often see when you bring on a new client, business owner, what's a common mistake that you see too many business owners making today? speaker-1: Okay. Yeah, so I would say that for business o specifically incorporated business owners, I would say just an understanding of the different kind of phantom or notional accounts in their corporations and how to use that in their in their planning. Yeah. And I think that it's it's s similar to everything else in financial planning, it's it's gotta be flexible and you gotta look from year to year. So we talk about the portfolio kind of remaining the same each year, but but with the planning, there's a lot of different triggers and a lot of different buckets that we can pull from that you gotta be looking each year with your accountant and with your financial planner and how that ties into the investment portfolio. All those things speak to each other. So I think the common mistake is just communication between the financial planner and the accountant. If you I've I found that you get everyone on the same page, it's so good for the client. They can get back to their lives and come in and kind of you know have an understanding of of why this those things kind of fluctuate each year and how compensation is to them personally I guess. speaker-0: Cool. Alright, last question. What are you most excited about when it comes to this conference here? Future proof. speaker-1: People like you. Yeah. Like from Alberta, I'm I'm Saskatchewan, you're wearing the Rational Reminder shirt. That's right. just like minded people trying to do good things for Canadians. I wanna I wanna meet more people, that's what I'm I'm excited about here. speaker-0: For sure. Well a pleasure to meet you, Connor. Thanks for the time Yeah, thanks a lot. All right, We have Mark Gochnour from Dimensional. for a lot of our listeners, a lot of them are aware that Dimensional plays a big part of our investment philosophy and how we manage our clients' accounts So we had a great opportunity to connect for a quick conversation here. Love to ask you a few questions, but first off, let's I'd love to hear your take. What what do most investors get wrong when it comes to how they think markets work? speaker-1: Excellent question. first of all, let me just say thanks for let me be on this real quick here. And of course thanks for the trust you put in dimensional. Thanks to all of you for the trust. You put in dimensional as well. We take that seriously. So thank you for that. Absolutely. question. What do most investors get how markets work? speaker-0: Wrong with thinking about how markets speaker-1: How markets work. I think the fact is they think they don't work. And what I mean by that is somehow that there's this mispricing out there. That okay, that stock or that bond is drastically overvalued or undervalued. Right. And what's interesting about that to me is you think about this idea of you go to the grocery store, the way you live your life every day, you go to the grocery store, you go buy bananas. You think, well, is the banana overvalued or undervalued? Or you know, it's probably well, that's just probably what it costs to get that banana here. Right. I think that decisions, the trade-offs we make in our life are very similar to investing in the sense that almost accept a stock or bond is a fair price, meaning there's a millions of people coming together. putting that value on that particular stock or bond. And so I think that's the biggest mistake. Most people think there's some sort of a mispricing out there. It's a wrong price and they can take advantage of it. Mm-hmm. And there's just no evidence that that works on a consistent basis. For sure. speaker-0: Yeah. Nothing one how how do we how do we get clients to stay in their seat as long term investors with so much noise right now? Like it's never been noisier in the marketplace, has it? speaker-1: Yeah, it's so hard. It is hard. first of all you hire a really good advisor like Scott. I say that in this I think people absolutely need help. Not only in I'll say the technical competence around asset allocation, money management, trust planning, estate, all that stuff's super valuable, which you provide. But I think the emotional aspect of it where you're going is really hard for an investor. Yeah. Especially when you're reading the headlines. And like you said, there's an overwhelming amount I'll call it noise out there, whether it's in the media, your friends, on our phones, whatever it is, and it's all designed to create anxiety or emotions around investing. So I think you have a plan in place. Yeah. You have an understanding that that money, what it's used for and and the purpose of it, usually for the growth side of it, it's a thirty to seventy year plan for a lot of people. So I think that mindset. speaker-0: For sure. Have you seen like from your perspective in the last year or so there's been well it's I guess there's always a crisis or there's always something going on geopolitically with with you know what's going on in the news. It it doesn't always correlate with what's actually happening in the markets. Have you experienced that too in the last handful of years in terms of like what's going on with like whatever Trump is talking about on on the news today versus what is actually happening in the markets? Do you hear that feedback from other advisors and clients? I think it's a little speaker-1: Different and it's a little bit of the same. Yeah. And by that I mean of the same part. It's what you said, which is there's always something to worry about. Yeah. Always. Yeah. There's always great things happening too, but usually the press doesn't talk about that as much. Yeah. but there's always something to worry about. That's the same. What's different is usually it's different stuff to worry about. Yeah. so I think that's there. I think what's different too though is how polarizing things have become. political particularly in the US with our politics. But for me that's different. Sure. and it's something we gotta fix, I think, in the US around that. But the idea that I'm worried about X, Y, and Z, the geopolitical stuff. I'm worried about political decisions our leaders make. I'm worried about the national debt. I'm worried about interest rates. Yeah. All that's always been there. And we've all lived through it as investors. Yeah. So I just like to remind people we've lived through it before. Yeah. Right? In in in markets Innovate, they adjust and they figure that stuff out. speaker-0: That's right. Something that we're always reminding our clients, regardless of whatever's happening in the news, all these beautiful businesses around the world continue to show up at their place of business to provide a good or service and create a profit for their their showholders, right? Like that's tap like do we have faith that that's always gonna continue to happen regardless of whatever's happening in the news. speaker-1: Yeah, yeah. People they try to figure it out. They don't just shut down and say, Well, we'll wait four years and then once we got a new leader we'll we'll fire up again. That's right. speaker-0: That's speaker-1: Like we deal with whatever it is. That's right. And they work on it to make profit, like you said. That's right. Right. And as an investor we get we get exposure to all that. That's right. Which is great. speaker-0: Last question for you, what goes into a proper or or call a good solid investment strategy? What is an investment strategy? speaker-1: An investment strategy is one that has a proper focus on I'll call it long term. Okay. It's very well diversified. Yeah. Right. It's gonna be speaker-0: Diversification. speaker-1: diversification is hugely important for many investors. The tax side of things is incredibly important as well. Yeah. And just managing your behaviors to make sure when markets deliver those returns, which we don't know when that will be. That's right. But you're there to capture That's the most important part for an investor. speaker-0: Yeah, it's and regard obviously we're biased. We we we we both yeah obviously you have a lot of conviction in dimensionals investment philosophy and what you how you deliver those results to clients and as do I. But at the end of the day too, when it comes to any investment strategy, whether it's in the equity markets or in real estate or what or into your own business, you have to have conviction into it and you have to stick with it, right? That's yeah, stay in your state. speaker-1: Yeah, that's Well and one of the things I love about what you're doing and why I'm so passionate about what we do here at Dimensional, yeah, passionate about what you do as an advisor is my dad was an orthodontist. yeah. speaker-0: Absolutely. speaker-1: So I'm gonna tell my quick story. I can do it very fast. Because I think it applies to your clients and all of you as chiropractors. My dad always said is an orthodontist, he wishes finance classes were mandatory as part of his dental school. Absolutely because you get out, you start your practice, you start making money, and you got that little doctor in front of your name, and everyone starts calling out of the blue, yeah, selling you all kinds of stuff. Yeah. And my dad was a tremendous saver, my mom and dad were tremendous savers. very diligent. They boarded on cheap. Frugal is cheap. Yeah. but saving was important to them. And my dad got into business with this guy. They created a partnership on real estate. Yep. The guy was corrupt. my dad lost a million bucks. This was in the early 1980s. wow. He lost a million dollars, which was it's a lot of money today. A million bucks was a lot of money in the early eighties. speaker-0: No doubt. speaker-1: lost the savings, almost lost our home. It was their dream home they had built. And it was all because he made one bad decision. You know, and that's where you go back to the value of advice. If he had that million dollars and put it in, I'll call it a dimensional sixty forty, fifty fifty strategy, it'd been worth probably over forty million dollars today. For sure. You know, and that's where I've seen firsthand lived it with a family and the challenges and the anxiety and the stress that a bad decision makes, particularly I think for folks that are sort of in the medical profession. Of course. Yeah. so I appreciate what you do so much and the clients you're serving. speaker-0: For sure. Well thank you for taking your time and appreciate everything that you did do at Dimensional and look forward to seeing you in a few days at a at another speaker-1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Thanks everybody. speaker-0: Thanks Mark, appreciate it. Thank you. Scott Campbell: All right, that's a wrap. Those are those are the conversations that we had for you today and kind of wraps up this two part miniseries here of our time down at Future Proof. Hope you got something away from last week's episode and and this week's episode and these conversations that we had with these great advisors. yeah, great, great way to bring some different perspectives on the show. Hope you felt feel the same way. And other than that, hope to maybe see you or maybe you'll see Chris here in in October. As we are kind of out on the road, we are heading out to Toronto here this weekend to the AFC fall conference on October 3rd. A couple weeks after that, you if you're in Vancouver and you're off to the Lux conference, you might see Chris there. I won't be there at that one, unfortunately. I'm gonna be taking on my first Iron Man that's happened in California. So I'm heading back to California here in October. And then the week following that, Chris and I will be back in Vancouver again, one more weekend away for the British Columbia Chiropractic Association, their AGM. annual meeting. So maybe we'll see you. Maybe we'll see you. other than that, hope you have a fantastic week. And we will see you again for another episode of the Chiro Money Show next week. Take care for now.