Latest / The Soap Box Podcast / How to live your company values when the rubber hits the road, with Lisa-Maree Blumenfeld

Transcript

How to live your company values when the rubber hits the road, with Lisa-Maree Blumenfeld · The Soap Box Podcast

1:18
Peta: Sometimes the most challenging moments in history show us exactly who we are as leaders and business owners.
1:25
Peta: Today's conversation, comes at a pretty crucial moment.
1:28
Peta: We recorded it just one week after Donald Trump's 2025 inauguration.
1:33
Peta: Um, while businesses across America were grappling with, and still are grappling with unprecedented challenges around supporting and protecting their teams.
1:43
Peta: we talk about quite a few of the executive orders that Trump signed when he came into office.
1:49
Peta: and we have an expert to help.
1:50
Peta: So my guest, Lisa, Lisa Marie Blumenfeld is the founder of Retain, a HR consulting firm that's been working with startups and mid sized companies, for ages.
2:04
Peta: Lisa has over 25 years experience across fast growing startups and established corporations.
2:10
Peta: She and her incredible team at Retain have helped founders scale their businesses while building a solid and compliant HR foundation for them.
2:18
Peta: currently Lisa Marie is also the co founder and COO of Eleven, where she's played a pivotal role in scaling innovative solutions to get their communication platform into the hands of leaders, empowering them to up level their communications with their teams.
2:34
Peta: Lisa is deeply passionate about helping startups navigate the exhilarating and sometimes chaotic journey of building high performing teams.
2:42
Peta: And she brings a rare combination of hands on expertise and empathy to her work.
2:47
Peta: Outside of work, Lisa's a proud mum of four and a big fan of live music, often found at concerts whenever she can carve out a moment of downtime.
2:54
Peta: Currently, she's trying different strategies to talk her husband, into getting another puppy, which has so far been unsuccessful.
3:01
Peta: Uh, she brings the same energy, creativity and drive from her personal life to everything she does professionally.
3:06
Peta: Making her an advocate for finding balance and joy amidst the hustle.
3:12
Peta: This isn't your typical HR conversation about policies and procedures.
3:16
Peta: I mean, this is the soapbox, that wouldn't really make a huge amount of sense.
3:20
Peta: This is about what happens when the political becomes deeply personal for your employees and how purpose driven businesses can respond with empathy and practical action.
3:31
Peta: We talk about how companies can live their values when it really counts, not just through talking about them in your messaging, which we often discuss, but through concrete support of their people.
3:42
Peta: What happens to your values when the rubber really hits the road?
3:46
Peta: Lisa shares some insights from the front line of helping business leaders navigate these times, while balancing the need to speak out against injustice with maintaining professional boundaries.
3:58
Peta: For those of you who are building businesses that aim to make a positive change in the world, I really hope that this chat gives you perspective on how that change needs to start with how we treat our teams, with how we treat our people.
4:11
Peta: and in that way it kind of feels like, a, really good follow on from last episode with Amina talking about creating healthy cultures.
4:20
Peta: we look at the delicate balance between responding to emotion and panic and dealing in facts.
4:26
Peta: we look at the balance between taking a stand and providing a safe space.
4:30
Peta: and we look at the balance between kind of running a consulting business.
4:35
Peta: and making sure that that fits with your conscience.
4:40
Peta: So we're talking about leadership in a time of crisis.
4:42
Peta: and I'm really grateful to Lisa for being so candid about the challenges that her clients are facing.
4:47
Peta: the conversations that her and her team are having, and what real life implications, big things that are in the news have.
4:58
Peta: so yeah, grab a coffee, settle in and listen to Lisa get on her soapbox.
5:04
Peta: Lisa, it's really lovely to have you on the Soapbox today.
5:08
Peta: thank you for joining us.
5:09
Lisa: Thank you.
5:10
Lisa: I'm so excited to be here.
5:11
Lisa: This is going to be really fun.
5:12
Peta: It is, yes.
5:14
Peta: Um, so for people who do not know you, can you tell us a little bit about who you are, what you do, um, how you got to where you are now?
5:22
Lisa: Yeah.
5:23
Lisa: Um, yes.
5:24
Lisa: So I am a founder of a company called Routine.
5:28
Lisa: Um, it's an HR consulting firm.
5:30
Lisa: we've been doing this for about 10 years and, um, mainly supporting startups and midsize companies with all of their HR needs.
5:40
Lisa: prior to that, I've worked in a number of different startups, and some large size companies running HR, and recruiting.
5:47
Lisa: And so, um, I just, I'm really passionate about it.
5:50
Lisa: Startups and helping them, you know, start that foundation in a really solid compliant way.
5:56
Lisa: And so they don't run into, messy situations down the line.
5:59
Lisa: So that is what, um, I'm working on.
6:04
Peta: Yeah, that is much needed.
6:06
Peta: A lot of startups that I've worked with could, um, yeah, could do with more HR support.
6:11
Lisa: you know, sometimes they don't know it yet, but, uh, So it's
6:15
Peta: Yeah, I think when you're building a company, there are things that you focus on automatically and things that you go, I don't really need to worry about that until I'm a bit bigger.
6:25
Peta: And I think a lot of people leave HR in that box and I'm not sure that's sensible.
6:29
Lisa: I think HR, especially at early stage, it's usually like a founder or an ops person that's incrementally kind of saddled with it.
6:38
Lisa: Um, so it's like, oh, I'll just handle payroll because there's only a couple of us.
6:42
Lisa: And it just starts to, um, expand.
6:46
Lisa: Um, and usually it's that person that's like, please get this off my plate.
6:49
Lisa: Um, so.
6:51
Lisa: Being able to come in and figure out what they've done so far and then help grow the business from there.
6:57
Lisa: it's just really fun.
6:57
Lisa: I love doing it.
6:59
Peta: That's cool.
6:59
Peta: And it sounds like that everybody's always quite relieved to see you at that point.
7:03
Lisa: Usually, yes.
7:05
Lisa: Um, oftentimes we're also brought into companies that have gotten themselves into a sticky situation.
7:11
Lisa: Um, And so they're not necessarily like excited for HR, but there is like a bit of relief.
7:19
Lisa: Like, please help us figure this out.
7:22
Lisa: Um, but they oftentimes were reluctant to have HR in the first place.
7:27
Lisa: So trying to let them see that there's a way to.
7:30
Lisa: Support their teams, in a way that doesn't make them feel like they're working in a bank.
7:34
Lisa: It doesn't have to be super regulated, but we just want to make sure that we're removing the risk that we can see, as much as possible
7:42
Peta: That's so interesting, this idea that like we're starting a new and different and modern company, so we don't need all these kind of, you know, departments that might hold us back.
7:54
Peta: And so they Yeah, they kind of think that.
7:56
Peta: Yeah, yeah,
7:57
Lisa: oftentimes someone's had a bad experience, right?
8:00
Lisa: They've been.
8:01
Lisa: Layed off in the past or they've, you know, whatever received feedback that oftentimes people don't like.
8:08
Lisa: Um, so, you know, or they expected a promotion.
8:10
Lisa: They didn't get it.
8:11
Lisa: And so oftentimes we're seen as the bad guys in those situations.
8:16
Lisa: Um.
8:17
Lisa: And oftentimes we're looked at like the people who are going to take all the fun away.
8:22
Lisa: Right.
8:22
Lisa: And I don't know how many HR people, you know, but that is not the case with my HR friends.
8:29
Lisa: Like, we tend to be sometimes the worst.
8:31
Lisa: So, um, you know, we, we hang out together so we can.
8:36
Lisa: Um, have those conversations, but you know what I mean, like it's, we're not here to take the bar away or the, you know, the snacks or whatever the things are.
8:45
Lisa: It's just, we want to make sure that it's as compliant as possible as, as much as we can
8:51
Peta: yeah.
8:52
Peta: No, that makes sense.
8:53
Peta: Okay.
8:54
Peta: Um, so I'm gonna do Elephant in the room stuff now.
8:57
Peta: You are American.
9:00
Lisa: I am.
9:01
Lisa: Yes.
9:01
Lisa: Guilty.
9:03
Peta: Guilty.
9:05
Peta: We are recording this on the 28th of January 2025.
9:11
Lisa: Yes.
9:12
Peta: It's been a week,
9:13
Lisa: Mm hmm.
9:14
Peta: um, and quite a lot of the things that have happened since Trump's inauguration I would imagine have affected you and your clients and the questions that you're having to kind of field and deal with.
9:32
Lisa: Sure.
9:33
Lisa: Yeah.
9:33
Lisa: Um, it's funny that you say it's only the 28th of January.
9:36
Lisa: It feels like the 97th of January.
9:39
Peta: Yes.
9:40
Lisa: yeah, it's, uh, a lot has happened and we knew a lot was going to happen.
9:45
Lisa: Um, but I think we underestimated, um, some of the things.
9:51
Lisa: That we're going to happen.
9:52
Lisa: And so, yeah, it's, it's been quite the shift.
9:57
Lisa: I would say that, You know, a couple weeks ago, there was some anxiety about this happening, um, and some people who had, um, done some research, tried to figure out and try to, assume what could happen and get ahead of it, there was no planning that could have taken place to anticipate some of these things.
10:16
Lisa: And so a lot of the questions, even just in this one week have been, really challenging for people.
10:24
Lisa: You can just hear the, the stress.
10:26
Lisa: that people are going through, as far as their own safety and security and, um, it's, it's hard because it hasn't all, a lot of these things have not happened before.
10:37
Lisa: So we don't have like precedent on, you know, this is what we can anticipate based off of some of these new decisions.
10:44
Lisa: so we're trying to be as.
10:45
Lisa: Um, but it is, it is kind of, it feels like we're in many ways like jumping from one landmine to another, you know, um, and every day it's a whole new set of surprises, um, that can drastically and, um, directly impact, um, the clients that we're working with.
11:07
Lisa: Yeah.
11:09
Peta: So can you give me some examples of like some of the, some of the issues that are causing your clients to lose a little bit of sleep or a lot of sleep?
11:18
Lisa: Yeah, I would say one of the not to like jump in like this is like a swan dive into the deep end.
11:24
Lisa: But, um,
11:25
Peta: That's fine.
11:26
Peta: They're used to it.
11:26
Peta: It's all good.
11:27
Lisa: yeah, great.
11:28
Lisa: Um, you know, I've had a couple of people call because there was a.
11:33
Lisa: Um, decision made that they were going to, and whether this is at all constitutional or able to get through the courts and whatever we'll see, but to, um, take back what's called the birthright.
11:46
Lisa: Um, and so what that means is someone who was born in the United States has, is a citizen.
11:54
Lisa: What's been said is if that is the case, that is no longer, um, a path towards citizenship.
12:02
Lisa: People are no longer considered citizens now, again, completely, in my opinion, like who has read the constitution like that is unconstitutional.
12:11
Lisa: So we'll have to see.
12:11
Lisa: But, um, you know, for people who that was how they became a citizen is because they were born here.
12:17
Lisa: 1st generation.
12:18
Lisa: Um, I've had a few people call and say, like, how does this impact my ability to work for the company?
12:24
Lisa: Should I be worried?
12:25
Lisa: Should I consider relocating?
12:28
Lisa: Um, and I think that's a heartbreaking conversation.
12:33
Lisa: To have a someone because you can just imagine, um, the stress and that, um, just the uncertainty about.
12:41
Lisa: Your ability to stay in a country and work for your company when like, none of this has ever been something that they've had to worry about before.
12:49
Lisa: So trying to, and we can't just come in and say, even though I just did, um, you know, that's unconstitutional.
12:56
Lisa: It'll never fly like crazy or crazy things are happening.
12:59
Lisa: So I think just to be able to say, look, I hear you, we are, we have no plans to go through and look at.
13:07
Lisa: Documents or whatever, like you are fine.
13:10
Lisa: You're a valued member of this team, um, and working with founders and, you know, leadership to come up with, um, ways to coach them and having some of these conversations way to instill security, um, as much as they can, um, and support is it's hard because we haven't.
13:28
Lisa: We haven't really faced this before.
13:32
Lisa: Um, and I think some people are reluctant to say like, it'll never happen even, you know what I mean?
13:37
Lisa: Like, it's just, it's just a really hard situation.
13:41
Lisa: I think that coupled with, um, ice raids, I don't know if you're familiar with that term, but people coming in and, you know, doing these, uh, deportations.
13:52
Lisa: Um, so if you're already feeling like maybe your citizenship is in jeopardy and you know, that people are like.
13:59
Lisa: actively trying to find people.
14:02
Lisa: Um, there's a lot of fear and there's a lot of, um, we're seeing in specific industries where people are hiding and not coming to work because it doesn't feel safe.
14:12
Lisa: Um, so trying to formulate ways to have these conversations, um, is, is kind of new.
14:20
Lisa: Um, and we're getting a lot of being brought into strategy sessions to try to figure out the best ways to support teams right now for those things.
14:32
Peta: And that's, I would imagine that's not something that you thought that you would have to deal with when you started your business.
14:36
Peta: No,
14:38
Lisa: no, I mean we do spend a lot of time, um, making sure people have the ability to work in the United States and there are certain things that we check documents, etc.
14:49
Lisa: So we're.
14:50
Lisa: Super well versed in that, but when you, when you start to change up the game, um, and try to, um, do it in such a way that is so, um, harmful, it's, it, it's completely been, uh, a shift for us, for sure.
15:08
Lisa: Yeah, there's no, like, playbook for it.
15:11
Peta: no, it's, they're all completely new.
15:13
Lisa: Mm hmm,
15:15
Peta: I think like, I get, so what you said earlier, What he was talking about, Nico, was these people have never even had to consider that their citizenship might Be of question.
15:28
Peta: So there's like, there's one, there's one, like, there's one group of people or several groups of people in America, whether they are there on temporary visas or, um, or student visas, or maybe they're, maybe they are undocumented.
15:43
Peta: And like, this has always kind of been part of their, of how they've kind of felt in that country.
15:52
Peta: And although, sorry.
15:54
Lisa: I was just going to say, in some cases, it's a bit of a calculated risk, right?
15:58
Lisa: Like, you know, coming, like, getting to the United States in general, there's a number of different pathways, um, to do that, um, but there is risk, You're right.
16:10
Lisa: Someone can revoke a visa.
16:12
Lisa: Um, your company may not renew it, whatever.
16:15
Lisa: There's a lot of different things that could happen.
16:16
Lisa: So you, for, for that population, I would say that there's, um, a planning process, um, like a, like paperwork itself, but also like kind of an emotional planning process where, you know, it could happen.
16:31
Lisa: Um, and so there's some, um, I don't know if the right word for it is like the calluses that are built when information comes your way.
16:39
Lisa: It's like a little bit easier to process because you knew that could be a possibility.
16:44
Lisa: But to, to do that to a population of people where that, um, like I said, the constitution is.
16:50
Lisa: pretty clear that you're, you are a citizen.
16:53
Lisa: So you wouldn't have to question.
16:55
Lisa: I think that's what's causing a lot of, um, suffering for people right now.
17:01
Lisa: And, you know, again, it's something that was like thrown out there.
17:05
Lisa: Um, and we'll see what happens, but just even have that as a conversation, um, to threaten kind of the wellbeing of.
17:15
Lisa: People in that way is just, uh, it's really crappy, you know?
17:22
Peta: Yeah, crazy.
17:23
Peta: Like, yeah.
17:24
Peta: And just even thinking on a purely economic level, like the, the amount of people that you would have to, that you would have to deport, like to fulfill that or the amount of people that, that that would affect, like it would completely decimate everything.
17:41
Lisa: industries.
17:42
Lisa: Yeah.
17:43
Lisa: I mean, as it is right now, um, the numbers that we got yesterday was there was 75 percent of the workforce in this area of California.
17:52
Lisa: That's mainly farmland.
17:54
Lisa: Um, 75 percent of employees are not or workers are not showing up.
17:59
Lisa: So when you think about that, right, there's the.
18:02
Lisa: Empathy towards the employees, right?
18:04
Lisa: The workers that are fearful and not showing up because it doesn't feel like a safe place.
18:10
Lisa: But then you think about the industry, like, this is legitimately where food comes from.
18:14
Lisa: So, like, if that breaks down, there's this immediate, um, impact to everyone.
18:22
Lisa: Right?
18:23
Lisa: And so I think those are some of the things that, um, it's just going to be, it's going to be a, uh, Ride.
18:31
Lisa: Mm hmm.
18:32
Peta: So how do you work with founders or employers or kind of companies to, to create a safer space for their employees?
18:44
Peta: I mean, obviously there's the initial, well not initial, but there's the kind of dunno, like frontline issue that we're dealing or that you're dealing with now in terms of feeling unsafe and potential ice rates and things.
18:57
Peta: So that's almost like the Yeah, the front, the pointy edge of the situation, but.
19:05
Peta: It strikes me that a quite a large part of helping founders in kind of think about HR and their businesses and think more about people involves helping them create an environment where their workforce feels kind of safe and, and, and protected.
19:25
Peta: So how do you, how do you do that?
19:26
Peta: Or how do you advise them to do that?
19:29
Lisa: Yeah.
19:29
Lisa: I think it's really important.
19:30
Lisa: I mean, you hit on a really good point.
19:32
Lisa: I think some people view what we do is just like very tactical, right?
19:37
Lisa: Like you process payroll, you, you know, like sure that stuff gets done, but I would say more importantly, it's identifying the, um, culture of a company.
19:48
Lisa: What are the things that are really important?
19:50
Lisa: And not just.
19:51
Lisa: The goals, not just what the board's telling us, not the, you know, quotas, whatever, those are all important, but like the, what are the core values of the company?
20:03
Lisa: What are the like non negotiable things that you don't see in like the quotas, right?
20:07
Lisa: Um, how do we treat people?
20:10
Lisa: Why are people going to want to come here?
20:13
Lisa: Um, and I think working with founders and leaders to, number one, get them to, in some cases, get them to understand that these things are important.
20:23
Lisa: Um, you know, they're under a lot of pressure from the board, et cetera, to move things along pretty quickly.
20:28
Lisa: So sometimes this feels like slowing things down.
20:31
Lisa: Um, the point I've tried to make is if you do this well, if you build this solid foundation, the other stuff's going to happen faster and better and, um, With scale.
20:44
Lisa: Uh, if you, if you try to wait and don't do some of these things now, figuring out who you wanna be as a company, who you show up as, as a leader, um, people will know.
20:56
Lisa: Your team will know that this wasn't a priority for you, and when you try to do it, it's not gonna feel authentic.
21:02
Lisa: So trying to take that time to really understand what the core values are.
21:08
Lisa: And then the harder part I would say is like holding people accountable to those.
21:14
Lisa: Right.
21:14
Lisa: And so if you say that, you know, we're going to grow and mentor and support our teams, this is the time to do that.
21:24
Lisa: Right.
21:24
Lisa: It may not show up.
21:25
Lisa: Like I said, it may not show up as like, just promoting people because they hit their quota, you know, under that, how are we supporting the teams that are I'm working out of fear right now.
21:37
Lisa: They're, they're not going to be producing their best work.
21:40
Lisa: They can't write there's tons of statistics and studies on working in fear, right?
21:47
Lisa: So how do we try to remove that roadblock for them.
21:51
Lisa: We can't, on a global political scale, right?
21:56
Lisa: I mean, I do believe that we can as, but in the immediate, yeah, in the like
22:01
Peta: Tomorrow, like we, yeah.
22:03
Lisa: right.
22:04
Lisa: Um, and we should be, but, um, but, you know, today the, what we need to do is make sure that we're showing those team members who are working at a fear that we hear them, that we recognize that this is a thing that we, um, try to identify how we can help.
22:20
Lisa: Right.
22:20
Lisa: In some case, some cases, it's easy, right?
22:23
Lisa: We can help adjust the workload.
22:25
Lisa: We can help with, um, mental health resources.
22:28
Lisa: Like there's things like that that we can do.
22:30
Lisa: Um, but taking the time to really listen, um, be really curious, make sure that they feel like there's a place for them to go.
22:39
Lisa: That's safe to have.
22:40
Lisa: These conversations, um, is critical.
22:43
Lisa: They may not have it anywhere else.
22:47
Peta: It sounds like What?
22:50
Peta: Now is coming out or has a potential to come out is that side of HR that people don't really think about on a daily basis, but that is incredibly vital.
23:02
Peta: And it is that kind of that taking care of human resources, taking care of people.
23:10
Peta: Um, and I feel like a lot of companies are not necessarily set up to do that because they've kind of taken it for granted that everybody's all right.
23:21
Lisa: And in many cases, everyone's kind of been all right.
23:25
Lisa: I mean, we've always, there's always stuff.
23:28
Lisa: There's always been issues, obviously, but like, I think, I think this situation right now is catching people off guard.
23:35
Lisa: about how elevated stress can get so quickly, right?
23:40
Lisa: Um, and, and how people cope.
23:44
Lisa: And I think, you know, to, to help leaders take a step back when people, their coping mechanisms are poor, um, you know, people are having conversations in the workplace that maybe they shouldn't or reacting, um, in ways that, Generally are fairly unacceptable, but you have to kind of take it with a grain of salt of like, holy shit, everything feels like it's on fire to them.
24:09
Lisa: So, like, they don't want to deal with a small problem.
24:12
Lisa: Like, let's, let's take a minute to really figure out what the situation is.
24:17
Lisa: And I think, um.
24:19
Lisa: You know, for founders, what we try to do and something that I feel like founders really understood it, it would be very helpful is that we do get to act as a total third party.
24:31
Lisa: Right.
24:32
Lisa: So I think for founders, sometimes they feel torn between what they really want to say and what they should say.
24:40
Lisa: Right.
24:41
Lisa: What their board, what, you know, their investors, how they voted, whatever, they're tied to all of these different things.
24:48
Lisa: And so there's that feeling of like, I, I can't be as supportive as I want to because I have to answer to all these other things, or there's risk for me.
24:58
Lisa: And saying some of these things, um, because of a variety of different reasons, and I think being able to have a third party come in and say like, okay, let's, let me, let me see what I can do, right?
25:09
Lisa: Let me, let me figure out what resources they need.
25:12
Lisa: Let me be a resource to them so they can, um, opt in to giving me information, um, so that I'll know better how to help.
25:22
Lisa: Um, and so I think that's where we're starting to get more and more questions.
25:27
Lisa: Um, Um, and requests from founders to, to help,
25:32
Peta: that's really interesting.
25:34
Peta: So you talked a bit about values, um, and when you're, when you're building those foundations, kind of the founders having core values and making sure that they're acted on.
25:46
Peta: What would you say retains core values are?
25:51
Lisa: I mean, we have the four values that we talked about as a team.
25:56
Lisa: I would say that, um, in this context, it's a little bit different because, you know, as a business, we want to support our teams as much as possible.
26:05
Lisa: We want to stay curious.
26:07
Lisa: We want to ask a lot of questions.
26:08
Lisa: We want to be as, um.
26:11
Lisa: Dialed into, um, the, the information that we need to have, right?
26:17
Lisa: So we're going to stay up to date with all the compliance related things and be proactive and all of those things.
26:23
Lisa: Um, I would say right now, the thing that I think we're, so let me, let me break this down, there's the core values that as a founder to my team, I have, and then the ones that we have is like running a business, I would say right now, I'm.
26:38
Lisa: Um, and I'm super hyper focused on recognizing that my team is kind of giving a lot of themselves to clients who are dealing with a lot of these issues, so it cannot be overlooked that the team needs to kind of not, and it sounds super cheesy, but like, They need to have their, like, fill their own buckets, right?
27:01
Lisa: And so helping them find, um, headspace, right?
27:05
Lisa: Helping them find, um, outlets, right?
27:09
Lisa: And so if I can try to be proactive in identifying who needs, um, Who needs what?
27:16
Lisa: Not everyone on the team is super, um, communicative on asking for help.
27:23
Lisa: Um, but a lot of our team, we've all worked together for so long, but you just know.
27:29
Lisa: Um, so, you know, I think if we boil it all down, it really comes down to focusing and making decisions based off of empathy.
27:37
Lisa: Um, which can be hard when you have goals and things you need to hit.
27:41
Lisa: Um, but I think that is kind of the most important thing.
27:45
Lisa: I will.
27:47
Lisa: fiercely and ferociously like defend my team and their ability to, uh, do the things that they're passionate about, um, but also do good work.
27:55
Lisa: And sometimes that, uh, involves some creativity.
28:00
Peta: no, that's fair.
28:01
Lisa: Mm hmm.
28:02
Lisa: Mm hmm.
28:03
Peta: Okay, so I work with a lot of purpose driven founders, so brand people who have started their businesses or brands because there's something or several things that really, really matter to them.
28:19
Peta: Um, there's an injustice that they think needs to be addressed.
28:22
Peta: There's a problem that needs to be solved.
28:24
Peta: There's something that's being missed that isn't, um, or that's being ignored.
28:29
Lisa: hmm.
28:30
Peta: And, um, and often these problems, these injustices, they, they stray or they march straight into, the political space.
28:41
Lisa: Mm hmm.
28:42
Peta: Um, from a HR perspective, I'd be really interested to know what you think about, founders being vocal about those values.
28:55
Lisa: Oh,
28:57
Peta: And I didn't prep you for that
28:58
Lisa: grenade, grenade, grenade.
28:59
Lisa: What would I say?
29:02
Lisa: You know, it's funny.
29:03
Lisa: We had a team call today where we were talking about how.
29:08
Lisa: Vocal, we are willing to be as a team, um, on a personal level, um, I am very vocal, but I try very hard to keep that separate.
29:23
Lisa: So all of all of the things that I would communicate on super private, you know, just to my group of people.
29:28
Lisa: So, um, and yet we have the ability to have a voice.
29:36
Lisa: In some of this, um, and yet so much of our job is being a third party, right?
29:42
Lisa: Being a neutral third party.
29:44
Lisa: And so it is, it is conflicting, um, a little bit.
29:49
Lisa: I would say that I want, I wanted to check with the team first to make sure that.
29:54
Lisa: By by chatting about any of these things, it wouldn't put anyone in a place where they felt really uncomfortable or, um, like, it was not aligned with who we are and who they are.
30:07
Lisa: And so I think we got to a good place.
30:09
Lisa: But 1 of the conversations that came up 1 of the talking points.
30:13
Lisa: Um, from someone on the team is like, it, it almost seems like right now, it doesn't matter if you come out to speak like for or against a certain policy, there's just negative press no matter what.
30:28
Lisa: Right.
30:28
Lisa: And so I think, I think the overall, what we've seen is there's just been a diminishing lack of respect for people and their opinions and their voices.
30:40
Lisa: People don't want to hear and really, dig into why.
30:44
Lisa: You feel that way.
30:46
Lisa: And so I think without the ability to explain why, um, you, you get into these really gnarly situations where assumptions are made.
30:55
Lisa: And so given right now, a lot of assumptions could be made.
31:00
Lisa: So you look at some of these big brands, that have been pretty vocal, take, for example, the, the DEI, right, the diversity, um, policies.
31:08
Lisa: And so there's been some companies that immediately.
31:12
Lisa: Yeah.
31:12
Lisa: Lee.
31:12
Lisa: Um, said we're done.
31:15
Lisa: There's no more D.
31:16
Lisa: E.
31:16
Lisa: I.
31:17
Lisa: In our company.
31:18
Lisa: And then we've had others that have like doubled down and said like this is this is a true like core pillars, you know, of our of our business.
31:26
Lisa: And so we're sticking with it.
31:28
Lisa: and just watching consumers change their habits based off of that, without getting into the why of it has been kind of fascinating.
31:37
Lisa: And I think You know, there's obviously been a lot of studies so far, but I think this time period is going to be an interesting thing for people moving forward.
31:47
Lisa: Um, so I think for that's kind of a long winded way of saying that I'm pretty open to being vocal, especially when, um, people, humans are, um.
32:02
Lisa: Being it feels like they're being targeted.
32:06
Lisa: so I have a tendency to like try to always stand up for not to sound like this is gonna sound so cheesy, but like on the side of justice and also like The underdog if you will and so when I feel like so many people within those groups are being Targeted it's just super inflammatory to me.
32:31
Lisa: And so I do you have a tendency to be a little more vocal than maybe my industry would suggest or support or encourage?
32:45
Peta: That is really interesting.
32:47
Peta: And I think, yeah, over the next year or so, it is going to be pretty interesting how many different industries are able to not plant their flag in the sand or not kind of, yeah, not take a side on something, mixing all my metaphors.
33:04
Lisa: You see it even on, um, like, like you mentioned brands, right?
33:09
Lisa: So if you, if you just even take it to another level of like influencers, right, you see, you know, all of this, we're like in a, it feels like we're kind of in a tornado of.
33:23
Lisa: Things happening and then you're flipping through and it's like new story, new story, whatever.
33:28
Lisa: And then it's someone who's like, I found these great new jeans at this place.
33:33
Lisa: And you're like, how are you, do you even, do you not know what's going on?
33:36
Lisa: And I get that that's like the job, right?
33:39
Lisa: That's what they've chosen to do.
33:41
Lisa: And that's fair.
33:41
Lisa: But I think, you know, that's my own assumption is like, they don't, they must not know what's going on, which.
33:48
Lisa: Is, you know, something I need to work on.
33:49
Lisa: But, you know, I think to your point, at a certain point, there's likely going to be, um, that, like I said, that tipping point where you have to kind of say something, even just to acknowledge, like, here's some things that are happening with people that value your opinion, your audience, right?
34:10
Lisa: Like, your audience is being directly impacted by some of this and you.
34:14
Lisa: Right now, they probably don't care about the jeans or the deal you got on shoes, but like want to hear who you actually are.
34:23
Lisa: And so I think people are looking to leaders right now to figure out, um, if they truly align with the core values that they've been reaching.
34:35
Peta: Yeah, you gotta read the room, I think.
34:37
Peta: Like, I, I like jeans as much as the next person, but yeah, now,
34:41
Lisa: Sure.
34:41
Peta: is not the time.
34:42
Peta: Um, that's, yeah, no, that is, yeah, that's a good point.
34:47
Peta: Okay, so along those lines of Like, people are, people are looking to see where, where leaders stand, it feels like there's a new thing coming out or being announced every day, like, because, I mean, from, from my perspective and, and the commentators that I've kind of listened to and the stuff that I've read, like the whole, the whole strategy is to overwhelm people so that they can't focus on one thing after another.
35:18
Peta: We're going to do it all in one go.
35:20
Peta: Because that you can't fight everything at once, um, but it does feel like this kind of like tornado thing
35:25
Lisa: Mm hmm.
35:28
Peta: a lot.
35:28
Peta: If not, all of these issues are incredibly emotional and incredibly personal to a lot of people.
35:35
Peta: Um, and it feels like a lot of the debate over the last few years has been, incredibly emotional, although, kind of probably some people wouldn't.
35:45
Peta: call it that, but
35:46
Lisa: Mm hmm.
35:46
Lisa: Mm hmm.
35:47
Lisa: Mm
35:47
Peta: kind of everybody's running high, everybody's running hot, everybody is, is taking everything incredibly seriously, which is fine, but I think also incredibly personally.
35:58
Lisa: hmm.
35:59
Peta: Um, it feels like for all the, this idea that we supposedly need more masculine energy and that women are too emotional, I think, um, I think that um, we can, yeah, yeah, we can do that.
36:13
Peta: Yeah.
36:14
Lisa: Mm
36:16
Peta: It feels like emotion has been the overriding kind of arena that we've been in.
36:23
Lisa: hmm.
36:25
Peta: But in terms of like the things that you, the way that your business works and the things that you do, like you're about policies and, and procedures and, and laws and statutes, um, and about facts.
36:43
Lisa: hmm.
36:43
Lisa: Mm hmm.
36:44
Peta: So, how do you balance that when, when people come to you or when people are discussing things and it is very emotional, and in no way am I saying that, like, people shouldn't be emotional about the fact that they might
37:00
Lisa: No, I get what you're Nope, I get it.
37:03
Peta: but, like, how do you, how do you talk about those things without just pouring more fuel on the fire, I guess?
37:12
Lisa: I don't know if I'm always great at not boring people on the back.
37:16
Lisa: Um, yeah, hypothetically, I, you know what, I, especially at work, I really try not to get into that space.
37:23
Lisa: I mean, again, we're, we're in HR and we're, also consultants, right?
37:28
Lisa: So it really kind of goes into this, like, advisory place of not getting emotionally involved.
37:35
Lisa: Um, and then, you know, you get off the call or out of the meeting or whatever.
37:39
Lisa: And it's like.
37:40
Lisa: You need to decompress over wine with your partner and just be like, it's been terrible.
37:46
Lisa: Um, but, uh, I would say that what I, thankfully, because we are so deeply rooted in, uh, like you said, laws and policy and all of those things, um, it's.
38:03
Lisa: That has made it easier for me to be able to, to talk to someone, in a, in a way that is like, Hey, I am, I hear you.
38:12
Lisa: This sounds like it's super stressful.
38:14
Lisa: I can totally understand why.
38:17
Lisa: Here's what I know, right?
38:20
Lisa: Like in the case of, um, uh, the birthright situation, right?
38:26
Lisa: Like, yes, this was said.
38:29
Lisa: Right.
38:30
Lisa: Here's what an executive order is.
38:32
Lisa: Here's what the process is.
38:35
Lisa: Right.
38:35
Lisa: And if we, and the best we can do right now is just trust that people are going to fulfill their jobs right now.
38:44
Lisa: But like, there are certain people who are required to evaluate this and determine whether or not it's legal or constitutional and.
38:55
Lisa: We are, that is not an immediate thing.
38:57
Lisa: It is a process.
38:59
Lisa: There's absolutely nothing that we are.
39:02
Lisa: Doing or changing in this moment and as a company, so I, you know, obviously want to get ahead of it with founders, but like, as a company, everyone is aligned here, but nothing is changing like, yes, this was said, but a lot of stuff has been said, right for you right now, we know you're a citizen.
39:23
Lisa: You've done all the paperwork, we've done all the paperwork, we're good, right?
39:30
Lisa: And so I think to be able to try to explain what that process is.
39:34
Lisa: In a way, that's not like trying to.
39:37
Lisa: You know, talk down to someone like everyone learned this in school, but still it's hard to remember the process and, um, the time that some of these things take for it to become a law or whatever.
39:51
Lisa: So right now, none of this is a law.
39:53
Lisa: None of it.
39:53
Lisa: So nothing's changing on our end.
39:56
Lisa: And here's our core values as a company, right?
40:00
Lisa: And here's what we're planning on doing.
40:02
Lisa: If you are feeling stressed, let's talk about that.
40:04
Lisa: Let's figure out what you need.
40:06
Lisa: if you need time to talk to lawyers, to get different opinions and thoughts and planning or whatever, fine.
40:13
Lisa: Let's figure out how you get that time.
40:15
Lisa: So I think having those conversations, but reiterating that, like, there's nothing actionable on our end.
40:22
Lisa: Um, and we're, I'm aligned with the business on this.
40:26
Lisa: So, but that that is kind of the process that I try to take and just reassuring people that like a lot of things are going to be set right now.
40:37
Lisa: It doesn't mean that there's going to be any sort of action.
40:40
Lisa: And I can tell you right now there's no action on our part.
40:43
Peta: Yeah, to addressing that kind of panic with more knowledge or kind of reminders.
40:49
Peta: Yeah, yes.
40:52
Peta: I think that's a pretty helpful thing for quite a lot of us to do across the board with some of this stuff.
40:58
Peta: I think it's really easy to, to panic and not that it isn't, not that a lot of these things aren't kind of huge and terrifying, but taking a breath and going right.
41:10
Peta: What do I know?
41:13
Lisa: And I think there's a.
41:14
Lisa: a thin line between, um, just like restating the law and sounding like a robot and removing all empathy.
41:22
Lisa: I think the balance comes in with having empathy, but not, um, not becoming an unqualified therapist.
41:31
Lisa: I think a lot of people look at HR as the unqualified therapist.
41:35
Lisa: Um, and there's like kind of a role that we kind of play within that space, but like stress the unqualified part, you know?
41:42
Lisa: So I think, you know, there is a place for everyone has emotion.
41:46
Lisa: That's what separates us from the robots, right?
41:49
Lisa: So like that is an important piece.
41:53
Lisa: Um, so acknowledging that.
41:55
Lisa: While also kind of infusing this, like, here's actually some of the concrete policy and rule.
42:02
Lisa: Um, and I think the follow up to with that, because.
42:06
Lisa: Like you said, so many people are getting so much information, it's overwhelming that you have these meetings where you kind of go through all of these points and they might hear two of them and remember one.
42:18
Lisa: So setting the follow up just to say like, Hey, I wanted to make sure you have the resources that you need, you know, and I think that's kind of an important place too.
42:26
Lisa: So I don't feel like it was a conversation that we forgot either.
42:31
Lisa: Yeah, because I've
42:33
Peta: Yeah, and I do think like if you are.
42:35
Peta: If you are a founder who has built a business that you say wants to be different, you want to kind of help your audience, your customer base, change the world, all those kind of things, that has to start at home.
42:51
Peta: That has to start with how you take care of your people.
42:54
Peta: especially when things like this happen.
42:59
Lisa: I've had the honor of working with like a lot of founders, right?
43:03
Lisa: Thousands of founders.
43:04
Lisa: And I can definitely, as you're saying that there's a couple that popped into my head where they just said that they said all of those things, but never at all, never meant them right.
43:17
Lisa: And, and employees knew that it was total bullshit.
43:20
Lisa: And so I think this is that time where it's going to become very, very, very transparent.
43:28
Lisa: Right.
43:28
Lisa: It's going to become very obvious.
43:31
Lisa: Um, and so unfortunately, it's just going to be one of those things that we just watch play out.
43:40
Peta: thank you so much for all of that.
43:42
Peta: Lisa, that was really, really interesting.
43:45
Peta: and
43:45
Lisa: me.
43:46
Peta: yeah, you're very welcome.
43:47
Peta: Uh, and I think often I will, like I've done a lot of talking to entrepreneurs or a lot, I've done a lot of talking to founders, um, from that perspective.
43:56
Peta: And I think to get the perspective of, of someone who works so closely with people and culture and, you know, the, The things that make the businesses actually work, um, like the human beings that kind of make things happen.
44:12
Peta: Um, it's been really, really refreshing.
44:14
Peta: So thank you very much for that.
44:15
Lisa: Oh, thank you.
44:16
Peta: That's okay.
44:17
Peta: Uh, like you said, there is a lot of stuff going on, um, in the U.
44:22
Peta: S.
44:22
Peta: right now, there are a lot of people who are worried, a lot of people who need support or who need to be supporting their employees and their kind of communities.
44:33
Peta: how can they get in touch with you?
44:35
Peta: If they.
44:36
Peta: Would like to do some
44:37
Lisa: Yeah, I'm happy to chat with anyone.
44:39
Lisa: Um, I can be found either by email or through our website.
44:44
Lisa: So our website is just www.
44:47
Lisa: retainhr.
44:48
Lisa: com.
44:49
Lisa: And then my email is just lisa at retainhr.
44:53
Lisa: com.
44:53
Lisa: Um, and I'm happy, like I said, to jump on a call with anyone because I think, running a business in general is hard.
45:01
Lisa: Um, and there's so much that needs to be done on the HR side for that in general.
45:05
Lisa: But yes, this is a A strange time, um, with some amplified issues.
45:11
Lisa: So again, happy to jump on a call.
45:15
Peta: and I will put all of that in the show notes so that people can find you that way too.
45:20
Peta: Cool.
45:21
Peta: Okay.
45:22
Peta: Uh, well, this has been fun.
45:23
Peta: Um, and yeah, no, and people, people should go and find you on LinkedIn website and email and all that kind of thing.
45:30
Peta: Um, yes.
45:31
Peta: And I'm looking forward to, yeah, keeping in touch.
45:34
Lisa: Awesome.
45:35
Lisa: Well, thank you.
45:36
Lisa: And I'll talk to you soon.