Latest / The Marketing Brief / Scott and Brian Long for the Advertising of Yore and Discuss Entertainment Marketing in 2026 (S3 E1)
Transcript
- Brian: Hello and welcome back to the Marketing Brief Podcast. I am your host, Brian Aquan, and this is the podcast where we talk about anything I want to talk about that tangentially touches marketing. Really, but we can go anywhere we want. And to do that, I gotta have a guest. And today I'm really excited to have a friend, a former colleague, someone I've spent like new business pitches with on weekends. So we really Scott Bishoff: Yeah. Yep. Brian: got to know each other. Scott Bischoff. Scott, welcome into the podcast. Scott Bishoff: Thank you, sir. Good to be back with you. I know I was thinking to myself, I can't remember what we were pitching. Probably some d that's right Disney at Omnicom at Om D. Before Brian: Disney. Yeah. Yeah. Scott Bishoff: they actually won it. Like we were part of the team that didn't win it. And then they got it Brian: Yep. But then you know who went you know who went to run it after we didn't win it? I did. Scott Bishoff: That's right, I forgot about that. And then I eventually worked there when Fox sold it. It's Brian: Yeah. Scott Bishoff: like Kevin Bacon, six degrees of of Disney or well dude, it's Brian: Yeah. You can't avoid the old media stalwarts like us. Scott Bishoff: you know, I I I as my kids remind me very every so often, I am old, been doing this quite some quite some time. finally finally got a five in front of the number of my age earlier this year, so we're there. you know. I got a face made for radio. Brian: Look at you and you look great. Scott, how would you like to introduce yeah? How would you like to introduce yourself to the listeners? Scott Bishoff: Yeah. Well so it's good to be here. I so I've been, you know, media for over twenty five years, most of my career on the ADC side. I'm currently consulting part of Bruins Scott Marketing. Anyone that knows me knows the the UCLA blue and gold runs deep through the veins. So Bruin Scott Marketing and and just you know, working with with film clients primarily and you know, just help yeah, helping with with paid media and and all those different things. I've been in the entertainment space most of my career, video games, streaming. movies. it's it's a passion of mine. I love the the pace and the quickness of it. I worked on C P G years ago and it's you know, you you work for a year and it's like, you know, our our share market went up by zero point two percent. I'm like, I need I Brian: Yeah. Yeah. Scott Bishoff: need that immediacy. The box office comes, you move on to the next thing. So yeah, I've been doing that for about a year now in the you know on my own in the consulting space. It's been it's been rewarding. It's been fun. Brian: That's awesome. Yeah, I've had my share of CPG. I remember working for Campbell's back in the day. And it was like, now we're doing competitive for two months, right? And it will be a competitive analysis Scott Bishoff: Yeah. Exactly. Brian: for the whole year. Scott Bishoff: I used to I I always tell the story, you know, when we worked together in OD, used to work on PlayStation and we shared a conference room with the the Nissan team and we had a whiteboard in there and we'd go in, it was I think it like two thousand and seven, right? And the whiteboard would be, you know, two thousand and nine, Nissan brand planning. And I'm literally in this conference room working on a video game that has got briefed on that's coming out in two weeks and I was like Brian: Yeah. Scott Bishoff: and I worked on Pepsi for a while and it was kind of the same thing. We're like you're you're you know, there Pepsi moves at a little bit more light speed, which is which is nice, but it still was you don't always see the impact right away. Whereas I Brian: Uh-huh. Scott Bishoff: love entertainment because you're in, you're out. You know, most of the time you're spending money before the product's even available, right? We spend, you know, ninety to ninety five percent of our dollars on a movie before the movie comes out. I mean maybe there's pre sale tickets on sale. So it's it's very different l way to look at it. Obviously makes it harder to optimize and do that kind of stuff. But I just I I like I like that I I wanna move to the next thing and new targets, new audiences, new products. It it it keeps it Keeps it interesting for me. Brian: And also seeing the work you're doing like it immediately is nice, right? It's kind of gratifying to Scott Bishoff: Yes. Brian: see it. And then you're getting data back and you can adjust and yeah, it feels more more immediate. I'd love to talk to you about because Scott Bishoff: It's Yeah. Brian: we both worked in film. of course it's all about the opening weekend. So that hasn't changed, but what what has changed in in film marketing in in kind of in your view? Scott Bishoff: I mean, I think it's it's so much, right? I I think the biggest thing and we've seen it this year with Obsession and with Backrooms and and even Brian: Yeah. Scott Bishoff: a movie called Iron Lung back in January, like this you know, it's interesting 'cause I think if you're a a a film consumer, you read a lot about the movie making of those movies and how they were made by YouTube stars Brian: yeah. Scott Bishoff: and things like that. I think the part that doesn't get talked about enough though is the marketing aspect, right? Like those movies are successful in part because they're made by people with these massive built-in followings, but not just a following, because lots of filmmakers have millions of Instagram followers, whatever. But they, you know, carried along the way, right? This this movie Iron Lung, this guy was is one of the OG YouTube, you know, creators. He was literally taking his audience along the path for years of making the movie. And so that you can't buy your way into that. You know, they so it's so interesting. We talk so much about the creator world, the creator economy, but when when the creator of the of the content that we used to just advertise on like a pre-roll now becomes the creator of the product and and it gets intertwined. That's huge. I would say the other thing sort of outside of that, in the in the bigger space in the film marketing world that's been such a huge change is is kind of what we talked about a little bit is the measurement and the optimization, right? Like we can do so many more things now than we could do even Brian: Yeah. Scott Bishoff: five years ago, 10 years ago, with understanding what that conversion looks like, right? It's never going to be a D to C you know, type of product. but that's been really interesting because what what's fun about that for me is we haven't lost the creativity, we haven't lost the the you know, the the things that make movie marketing different, but now we can underpin it with some actual data and some actual measurement, Brian: Yeah. Scott Bishoff: which, you know, I just couldn't do in this marketplace for so long. Brian: And that's kind of like micro segmenting, right? You can get to so many more segments. Yeah. Scott Bishoff: It's all of yeah. Different segments, how they're responding, what creative you serve them, but also, you know, are they buying tickets? You know, I mean, obviously not everyone buys a ticket weeks in advance for a movie. We still see massive walk-up business for most films and and you know, that aren't Odyssey or Dune or things like that. but you can start to understand, you know, I I think I think back, I worked on a one of my favorite movies years ago called The Greatest Showman. I'm sure you remember it, Hugh Jackman. And that movie Brian: Mm. Yeah. Great, great soundtrack. Scott Bishoff: Yeah, right. And that movie came out over cr right around Christmas and didn't open that well. And then we kind of came in over the break and turned the around. But what was interesting about that is it was kinda early days of a lot of social. Like I'm not even sure TikTok was a thing yet. It might have still been what was it called before musically? But it was interesting because we we we saw some signals on social that didn't translate, right, to to the actual box office in terms of who, you know, people were following up. This is Andrea before she was Zedea, right? And but her audience ate up what we were doing, but they didn't necessarily see the movie. Nowadays, you can see those signals and and how they're gonna lead to conversion in a much more you know connected fashion. And so that's been really interesting for us is to say we we now don't have to rely so much on proxy metrics. We actually can see what's moving the needle, what's not, and and again, we couldn't do that ten years ago. I mean, some of the you know, data science work that a lot of studios have done, you know, ones that I don't even work at or work with, it it's incredible, right? They're putting a lot of time and money and energy into that for obvious reasons, right? It's not cheap to market a movie. And so, you know, we let's get to a place where we can get more out of that. I you know, again, when I was at working on Universal, working at Fox ten years ago, like it was it it was in early stages and now most studios are well beyond the well Brian: Yeah. Scott Bishoff: beyond that. Brian: Beyond tracking, remember how tracking was? Scott Bishoff: W right, though I mean we still have that. Brian: Yeah. Scott Bishoff: Yeah. Well and it's funny 'cause we're starting to get a lot of calls from companies that are trying to revolutionize tracking with AI, Brian: Mm-hmm. Scott Bishoff: you know, and they can they you know, so far it's been fairly accurate because it's such a indicator and it's kind of the you know, what search used to be, but you know, we still Brian: Mm-hmm. Scott Bishoff: use all the old tools. I do it's no different than Nielsen, right? As as we onboard all the new Brian: Right, right. Polling. Scott Bishoff: tools, we still use the old tools. We hope we they've evolved, but Brian: Yeah. Scott Bishoff: It is. It the the the amount of information at our fingertips is so much greater and and our ability to cut through that information to what it actually means something is a is also a lot greater, which has been which has been fun. But again, we haven't lost the creativity, right? We're still doing Brian: No. Scott Bishoff: fun stunts, we're still doing, you know, we're getting the talent to do cool shit. So it's it's still that part hasn't got lost. And that's been I I don't know that I could do this without that. It's why I love entertainment. Like I can't you gotta have both. Brian: Yeah, the art and the science. Well, I love your earlier point about the kind of the behind the scenes being very interesting to consumers. And I don't think that's just movies. I think it's maybe it's generational now, but consumers aren't just purchasing something that they don't know who b who made it, how was it made, was it ethically made? Maybe that's important to them, but they want that narrative behind it. And we've seen behind the scenes content do really well. How did how did this get made? What is the story behind the person who who made this kind of being really interesting to consumers? And I think maybe it's generational, but that's something we've seen just change in the last ten years. Scott Bishoff: Yeah, people want to be invested in something, right? I think that it's it's and there's tools that do that, right? When we were growing up and certainly our parents were growing up, they didn't you know, it was TV was on, you watched it, you had a bunch of 30 cent commercials and you called it a day. And I see with my kids all the time, like they want to be invested in the stuff they're watching, the people they're following. And I think that's you know, it's kinda like I talked about earlier. It's why that I think we think so much about creators and the content they create and less about the marketing aspect. But that's I think why This stuff is so successful, right? I mean, you know, it listen, I I think most people would tell you that the content a TikTok creator making isn't as quote-unquote good, right? Whatever that means to you as a a two-hour, a two-hour movie that Spielberg made or Nolan made. But my argument is like, but the difference though is there's a sense of ownership to it, right? Not to say that the Odyssey wasn't a huge success because people wanted that. But to your point, like people want to be invested, they want to own, they want to like go along for the ride. And I I it's funny, right, because we you know, we both grew up in the world of like no spoilers, like d you know, hide everything, like and and nowadays people want I mean you don't want to spoil like a plot twist, but people want to know how the sausage was made. Like that makes it more interesting to them. They they because they're everyone's a creator, right? I think that's you know, it's kind Brian: Yeah. Scott Bishoff: of a cliche thing, but everyone's a creator, whether you're doing it professionally or you're just posting pictures of your dinner last night on Instagram, because everyone's doing it, it means more to them when they see what went into other people it. Brian: Mm-hmm. And also, as you were saying that, you know, we but our our parents' generation had four channels, right? Maybe three three channels before Fox. Scott Bishoff: I know. Yeah. Brian: So it comes along with choice, right? Consumers have a lot more choice now. So how do I navigate what I'm choosing? Well, maybe I do want to get, you know, I want to be more invested in the thing that I'm choosing rather than it's just on. It's just on. That's why I'm watching it. Yeah. Scott Bishoff: Yeah. Well, and it also makes it like I always talk about with with the streaming that I think one of the greatest things about the huge proliferation of all this content, while it can be daunting at times, it's given the opportunity to, you know, content creators of of so many diverse voices in all different walks of life that those people are not getting content made because the system was set up to be a struggle to do that. And now it's so easy to do it. Again, very different posting a YouTube video and making a hundred million dollar movie, but There's so many avenues for that. And I think to your point, now that it's not three channels where there's all this content, it gives people that it's not, it is relatively easy to find content out there that feels that it was made for you and feels that it speaks to you and represents your perspective on life, whatever that might be. And I think that's so interesting. And what's cool about it is it's it's also made content makers like studios and streamers think, sit up and take notice and be like, Okay, now we need to fund more of that, right? It's great someone to go in their own pocket and do that, but it but that's that's what makes me so excited is I think this proliferation of all this new content has made things more relevant to consumers, which is what people want, right? I wanna see I mean I watch a lot of content, but I love seeing content about people that are like me, right? A dad, a marketer, a sports fan, whatever that is. Like I relate to it and you couldn't always find that stuff. Certainly for you know you know, other d you know, di whether it's LGBT content, people of color, like th th that content has exploded because now filmmakers can make that. They don't have to always rely on a huge budget. They don't always have to rely on someone green lined in their project. They get it out there. The people decide and we the people want different things than we think they want. Brian: Yeah. It's been much more democratized and flattened. And I think that's a good thing. it's funny. I I think about that. in terms of creators, what was my point? Choice and and creators. I got I got lost in it. Scott Bishoff: Yeah. Brian: but I you know, I love that I love that it is democratized. I love that there's more content out there to choose from. And here's the point I was making. I talked to a lot of clients about message versus messenger. And Scott Bishoff: Mm-hmm. Brian: message, of course, is important, but what's becoming increasingly important, and maybe it's just already the most important thing, is who is carrying that message. And that's how I was kind of weaving in the creator economy because that's gotten so big because we're following these people. We don't know them, but they're in our lives, right? Sometimes we know. But they're in our lives and we're following them and they're making decisions. And we're like, okay, that person's like me. Like you said, I want to find content Scott Bishoff: Yeah. Brian: that's made for me, but it's also made by someone who's like me. And I might be more interested in the messenger than the actual message that they're putting out and just saying, okay, you know, I'm following them. I'm gonna agree with whatever they're saying. Scott Bishoff: Yeah, I you know, I I always say that, you know, again, we're we're so bad in our industry about we use words so interchangeably. And one of the things I always I'm not unique in this, many people do this, but there's a big difference between a content creator and an influencer. And and by the way, I'm not saying that one's better than the other, right? We need both, Brian: Yes. Yes. Scott Bishoff: but I do to your point, there are people that create great content. And as an advertiser, I want to attach my brand. Maybe it's a simple pre-roll, whatever, you know, but it doesn't necessarily mean that that person is influencing it's just it's the right place for my message. To your point though, the when someone is an actual influencer, it's them as the messenger is the most important part because people are listening to them. I see it again with my kids, my daughters on TikTok all the time, YouTube. Like there's a difference between the you know the mindless scrolling and I'm like, I just want to be in the feed when you're scrolling, because I know you're my audience, versus no, this is someone who I listen to take recommendations from and again, you need both. So I'm not saying one better than the other, but to Brian: For sure. Scott Bishoff: your point, like the it it makes such a difference on on where that's coming from. And I think that's where look at it's why so much marketing dollars have flown to Meta, to TikTok, to YouTube. Certainly the scale, they add probably the data, there's lot of reasons, but one of the reasons is because you now it's not just it's not just an old school contextual relevance idea. It's really Brian: Right. Scott Bishoff: contextual relevance, but also who the mouthpiece is and You it's funny to me 'cause yeah, it's peer to peer, but it's also funny Brian: Peer to peer. Yeah. Scott Bishoff: me 'cause would think that the best influencers would be, you know, the Tom Cruises of the world or the Steven Spiels the world, but not always the case, right? It it's it's the size of the following is great, but not the end all be all. Brian: Yeah, yeah. Scott Bishoff: what really matters, like I said, I'd much rather have someone who has ten thousand people listening to their podcast but hanging on every word, than someone that has a hundred thousand people who listen to it while they're out for a run and don't process it all. Like I I want the attention. I don't want the scale. I want, I would love scale with attention, but if I have to choose, like I want you to care. Yeah. Like Brian: Sure, sure. You go deep. Yeah. Scott Bishoff: that's what I'm trying to do. Brian: Yeah. And that's the rise of these micro influencers and Scott Bishoff: Yeah. Brian: people that just relate to audiences in a really cool way. I love Scott Bishoff: Yeah. Brian: that. We're not at ten thousand listeners yet, but we're we're climbing. We're getting there. Thank you for the Scott Bishoff: I'll get you l my mom, my dad, my aunt, I'll get you three at least when I when we post this. Brian: the Bischoff bump. That's what we're looking for. We want that Bischoff bump. Scott Bishoff: Exactly. My son, his returning brothers, they all follow me on LinkedIn. We'll we'll shout out A Brian: There you go. Scott Bishoff: API Purdue, a little shout out there, they'll they'll they'll they'll they'll they'll listen. Brian: Nice. Awesome. Well, it's season three. You are the first guest of season three. We're at season three now. And Scott Bishoff: okay. All right. Brian: we've changed the question each season. So the question for you today is what are you hopeful about? Trying to bring some hope into this, into this world in the late summer. Scott Bishoff: Man. Brian: whether professionally or personally, is there something that you're hopeful and you're thinking about right now? Scott Bishoff: Well, from a personal standpoint, I'm hopeful that this is finally the coach that UCLA football after brings us to pro right the the Chip Kelly promise didn't work out. So this this is Brian: Yeah. Scott Bishoff: I you know, I'm gonna we're gonna go back and listen to this when it posts and we'll see the season starts next week. So personally, my hope right now is is sitting with UCLA football, which is probably gonna be a false hope. but Brian: Okay. Scott Bishoff: but we'll see. you know listen, I'm I'm I'm trying to answer this question professionally without using the the word AI because I feel like that's the obvious answer. No, actually I I will take it a little different direction because I I I mentioned this earlier when we're talking. Like my hope for this industry is that we think really strongly about how we're setting things up for the future generations and how we're mentoring them and how we're leading them. I think I I won't get on my soapbox for too long on this, but I I Brian: Yeah. Scott Bishoff: I talk a lot about I I feel like we almost do a disservice to the the next generation because we ask them to do very menial, easy tasks, whereas when I started in advertising, it was all about thinking and strategy and and all this kind of stuff. And so my hope is that we remember that there's a you know, a a craft to what we do and that there's a a a human element to it. And yes, we can automate, and yes we can use AI and we can do all that stuff. But the our the ability for this industry to still exist in 20 years rests on us making sure that the younger generation has the same experiences, has the same networking, has the same you know, forced to think in in certain ways. and that's that's what I I hope, you know, again, AI is gonna take jobs, do whatever it does. I I can't prevent that on one person. But my hope is that I, you know, I my passion for this industry comes from the things I was able to do and quite frankly failed that early in my career. And I want to make sure we don't make it so automated and so easy for the next generation that they don't get those chances. Brian: Right, right. That's great. That's very hopeful. I love that idea. Scott Bishoff: Yeah. yeah, I I I I'm a you know, it's it's w when people always ask me like when you go from agency to client side or consultant, whatever, Brian: Mm-hmm. Scott Bishoff: what do you miss the most? And hands down, the thing I miss the most being in agency is the mentorship, both having a mentor but also having a team of people. I I I still talk to so many people that I've worked with in the past and being able to, you know, again, I'm not gonna teach them how to calculate a T R P. Anyone can do that. It's how do you present, how do you think, how do you show up in a meeting, like that's the stuff that that I enjoy and I think gotta keep doing it and they'll there'll be a future that and a UCLA national championship that that's that's the goal. Probably gonna have Brian: There you go. Awesome. Scott Bishoff: more luck getting presentation workshops than the than UCLA. Brian: Well, you've been a fantastic guest. I knew you would be. Thank you for joining us Scott Bishoff: that's awesome. Brian: on the Marketing Brief podcast, Scott. Scott Bishoff: but happy to be here and happy to kick off Brian: Awesome. Scott Bishoff: season three. Brian: There you go. Season three. All right, to all the listeners out there, stay curious.