Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / Why Blowjobs Fall Off In Later Marriage

Transcript

Why Blowjobs Fall Off In Later Marriage · The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten

• 0:05
  Hi everybody, and welcome to this episode of the Doctor Psych
• 0:08
  Mom Show. Today we're going to be talking
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  about the phenomenon that is so common, where the wife stops
• 0:15
  giving the man oral sex later in the relationship.
• 0:19
  And this is an interesting topic because guys take this super
• 0:24
  personally and think that it has something to do with how much
• 0:27
  she loves him or she's attracted to him or something.
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  And it really doesn't. So we will get into what it does
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  mean in a bit. Before that, I will tell you to
• 0:36
  subscribe. Most recent subscriber episode
• 0:38
  was on women's career struggles in midlife and there are about
• 0:41
  140 others including oral sex on women, which would be relevant
• 0:45
  to the one today. OK, so anywho, it's very, very
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  common for women not to do so. Where where do I even start?
• 0:58
  So there's there's multiple components of this.
• 1:00
  The 1st is obviously I've talked about women's Dr. decreasing in
• 1:03
  monogamy and with age, specifically in the 40s, women
• 1:07
  start to feel perimenopause symptoms and those include mood
• 1:11
  changes. Your period gets different, your
• 1:17
  dryness, like you can experience dryness and need more lubricant,
• 1:21
  you don't get as wet, your sleep can get all fucked up your
• 1:25
  energy level. So there's like a lot of things
• 1:27
  that can happen with perimenopause as your hormones
• 1:29
  change, and specifically as estrogen drops more.
• 1:33
  This also leads to mental changes where you don't really
• 1:36
  want to do things the same way as you used to for other people
• 1:39
  because your caretaker hormones are leveling off.
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  You're going into a different stage of life.
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  And I had a podcast recently about the benefits of
• 1:46
  perimenopause and menopause for many women, or that they find an
• 1:49
  identity outside of just caring for others.
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  So first of all, there's the stuff on the women side where
• 1:56
  her drive drops and after the so OK, so there's so many different
• 2:01
  situations. So let's look first at the
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  situation where the woman is sex positive but he's just
• 2:08
  experienced less and less oral sex as they hit their 40s and
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  beyond. This is 2 things.
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  This is due to her drive going down.
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  So overall, things just kind of don't seem as interesting.
• 2:18
  They don't seem as sexy. She's not in the mood as much to
• 2:20
  do anything, especially, you know, something that may kind of
• 2:24
  feel, you know, honestly a little bit more disgusting than
• 2:27
  it used to, even for sex Positive woman.
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  Because remember, if you're not hungry, you could love food, but
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  if you're not hungry, then food's going to seem disgusting,
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  right? So there's that component, but
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  then there's the component that her partner has aged also.
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  You guys don't really ever. I've actually never seen this
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  mentioned. You know, in in all the content
• 2:50
  on this and how to get your wife to do this, there's like a super
• 2:53
  obvious Occam's Razor sort of thing going on.
• 2:56
  If she's having sex with you, she wants to be having sex with
• 3:01
  you, right? So most of the time the woman is
• 3:04
  doing it because she has gotten into the mood, either
• 3:07
  spontaneous arousal from ovulation, etc, or because
• 3:11
  you've just been executing so much awesome doctor psych mom
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  romantic advice that she just can't help herself.
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  But either she's having some sort of spontaneous arousal due
• 3:21
  to being somewhere in her cycle, or you just took her on a date
• 3:25
  night or whatever, or she experiences solely it, or mostly
• 3:32
  responsive desire. And so she's gotten into the
• 3:34
  mood. You guys have engaged in
• 3:35
  foreplay, you're kissing, you're touching, and then it comes time
• 3:38
  for the blowjob. And guess what she thinks.
• 3:42
  The most obvious thing if we do this, he's not going to be able
• 3:45
  to have sex because you're not as young as you used to be.
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  So first of all, the blowjob takes longer than it used to
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  when she was in her 30s and 20s, because you were also in your
• 3:56
  30s and 20s and you came quicker, you were more
• 4:00
  responsive. Everything changes, you know,
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  and so it it takes longer. You honestly can't perform again
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  if she finishes. So used to be that you know you
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  could get hard again and if you were very excited.
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  And for most men as they age they don't and or or or they get
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  kind of like semi hard, which they're trying to pretend is
• 4:23
  hard but it isn't as hard as you know as hard.
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  So if she's in the mood to have sex then giving you a blowjob to
• 4:30
  completion don't do anything helpful.
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  And so maybe she will give you a little bit of a blowjob, but the
• 4:36
  completion part means the whole thing's completed, and then
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  she's not satisfied. And before you say that, you're
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  like a sex God of cunnilingus, which, like every man thinks
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  that they are, and some men may be, but the others should listen
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  to my oral sex podcast. As I say in my oral sex podcast,
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  a lot of women don't like it. It doesn't matter how good you
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  are. They just don't like it.
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  It doesn't feel as close. It doesn't feel as sexy.
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  It just doesn't feel the same, you know.
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  And it certainly doesn't seem like feel like penetration.
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  And sure, you could bring out your old sex toy box.
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  But again, most women do not find that idea very arousing.
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  They find the idea rousing of sex.
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  Like sex is arousing after foreplay, after whatever sex
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  they that's what they like. So with a blowjob to completion
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  you're not going to have sex and or you're not going to have the
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  kind of sex that you would like to have even if you can get kind
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  of hard to get. And now if you're a young guy
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  and and you can come again right away, then you know you don't
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  usually have this problem unless you're with a lower libido
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  woman. Because if if she wants to have
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  sex and she knows if she goes down on you within a few minutes
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  you're good to go again, then you usually don't have this
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  problem and she'll usually do it as in a very you know, happy
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  sexy 20 something marriage. This doesn't really happen or
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  really relationship cause a lot of people are only in
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  relationships at that point not married.
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  All right. So that's one situation, and
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  that's what most women will say to me privately, you know, and
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  so and so then you could say, well then why isn't she just
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  take one for the team and it's like, okay, She could take one
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  for the team. But remember, her getting
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  excited feels like rare anyway, the older she gets.
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  So if it used to be like every other day, now you're doing it
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  like maybe twice a week, once a week, maybe you skip a week,
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  period, week, whatever. So her getting aroused and
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  really getting in the mood feels like something she ought to take
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  advantage of, Full advantage, Which to most women means
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  intercourse, you know, even if they don't get off from
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  intercourse, even if you have to manually stimulate them before
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  or get the vibrator, as many women prefer, which I say, don't
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  get addicted to the vibrator, but many women do it anyway.
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  Or oral sex, right. But The thing is the oral sex on
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  women, The guy goes down on her, she has an orgasm and then what
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  happens? Intercourse.
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  That's like literally what always happens, pretty much, you
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  know, and that's what I'm saying, can't happen in the
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  inverse. So while you know what's good
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  for the goose is good for the gander, certainly it's not
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  really the same because the reality is she can come from
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  oral sex and then she can have intercourse, you know, And many
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  women, especially, you know, younger women can just come
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  again, right? He can't, especially as he gets
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  older. So that's the difference.
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  So also, as I said, many women are sex negative and the most
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  thing that you're sex negative about is something that's
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  literally in your face. The more that they have to
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  engage with semen or with a penis.
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  Real sex negative. Women, as you may know, if
• 7:37
  you're listening to this and you're in this situation, don't
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  even touch the penis during sex. The idea of putting it in their
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  mouth while during the honeymoon stage, that was like, you know,
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  they were drunk on hormones, you know, and everything seems sexy
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  and cool and awesome. You know, that goes away, That
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  drunken feeling goes away and then they are left with a penis
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  that they were taught, always as kind of gross.
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  And then they start to feel it again.
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  And then when this combines with their waning hormones and a sex
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  negative woman, then you're never going to get a blowjob
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  pretty much 'cause you're barely having sex at all and she finds
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  it like totally gross. So what would what would we want
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  to do about this? Well, first of all, one good
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  solution is that the blowjob to completion, you got to at least
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  empathize with that. She is certainly, you know, 100%
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  taking one for the team there. And also like maybe you could
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  not have the blowjob to completion, maybe you could have
• 8:30
  some a little bit of a blowjob and then you could have sex.
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  And that's kind of a good compromise that a lot, a lot of
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  couples come to, you know, And that seems to make most people
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  sort of happy, right? Instead of, you know, maybe the
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  guy be fully happy. But here's the thing.
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  You're not going to be fully happy when she decides that this
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  sucks, no pun intended, and that, you know, she's just doing
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  it for you. And then she gets excited and
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  then nothing happens. Good for her if she's somebody
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  who doesn't like oral or manual stimulation after that.
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  Also remember, some guys are selfish and they won't do
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  anything afterwards. So that is a real thing.
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  So a lot of the preoccupied attachment guys who are
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  listening are not this person, But many, many other guys will
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  not go down on her after they have already come.
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  They're done. You know, These are the guys
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  that give, you know, sex and foreplay a bad name.
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  These are the guys that don't like to cuddle, that don't like
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  foreplay, that just want to get their rocks off.
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  And there are those guys. So if a woman is coupled with
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  one of those guys, she goes down on him and he's done.
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  He just goes to sleep. It's over.
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  And that there's no equivalent for her.
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  So there's many, many more situations in the world where
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  the guy gets off and goes to sleep and the woman doesn't than
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  the inverse. They're where the woman gets off
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  and goes to sleep and he doesn't.
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  Of course there are those situations and there are guys
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  who are very generous lovers and and all sorts of things, right?
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  But the majority of the time, the encounter is thought to be
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  finished when the guy has an orgasm, you know?
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  And whether she does or not is is kind of bonus.
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  And for some guys, they'll make sure that she always does first,
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  but then they do too. So there's many, many more women
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  that don't have an orgasm in an encounter than men.
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  And this is the orgasm gap. And this is woman's fault as
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  well as men's fault, right? I mean, you know, you picked
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  them, you stayed with this guy and you know he's a selfish
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  bastard and you didn't teach him anything about your body because
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  you felt too awkward and shy and low self esteem.
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  I'm not saying it's like your fault, like you're bad or
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  something. I'm just saying that's how it
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  happens, right? So two people get into a dynamic
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  and the woman is basically never satisfied and never knows how to
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  talk about it and always feels bad and he don't give a shit.
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  So I mean, that is more common because as I've discussed so
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  many times, there's more avoidant attachment men and
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  those men don't generally like foreplay, cuddling, etcetera,
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  etcetera. They mostly like sex.
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  I have a podcast about that sexism.
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  Sex high sex drive is not the same as a physical touch love
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  language. So you know you.
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  So again, one compromise would be that would be some oral
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  sometimes before intercourse. The other one would be thinking
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  of it kind of as something that we do for each other sometimes
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  is that one of us gives the other one an orgasm that's
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  unreciprocated. But remember, you would have to
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  do this too. Some women aren't even
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  comfortable with that and have never had that happen.
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  But you know, a lot of these guys are like, oh, I give her a
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  massage and she's like ready to go to sleep.
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  And so she just falls asleep. And I I wish that the massage
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  would turn her on and would be something that that she likes
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  sexually, right? Because I always tell men to
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  give a massage as part of foreplay that's useful for
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  especially women who are more sensual erotic blueprint.
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  And you can refer to my erotic blueprint podcast on that.
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  And it also relaxes women and women need to be relaxed to have
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  sex. Men don't, etcetera.
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  But, but, but, but what happens is that a lot of these women are
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  getting turned on by the massage, but they know that they
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  can't. He won't just give them a happy
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  ending massage, you know, which they would really like.
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  And then they would feel like they had kind of a, you know,
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  sexy thing happen and like the guys really giving and loving
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  and generous and then maybe they'd want to give him a
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  blowjob to completion the next day or that week, you know?
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  But many, many guys turn this into only something where they
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  get off too, you know? And so this may be like mind
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  blowing to you to think about if you are in one of these more
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  traditional dynamics where the guy getting off all the time is
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  something that has to happen. And I talk about this actually
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  in a podcast about does the guy need to have an orgasm every
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  time. Many guys as they get older
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  don't have an orgasm every time because they save up basically
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  and then they are more excited the next time.
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  As you get older you need a little help with excitement.
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  Everybody does you know and so any who.
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  So if they gave the woman the massage and then they gave her
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  unilaterally an orgasm right when she's all all excited and
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  and and that's easy for her, then she might want to have
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  intercourse afterwards or she might want to go to sleep.
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  But if she did have an orgasm and go to sleep and that was
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  part of your repertoire, then that would be part of your
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  repertoire, likely on both sides.
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  She would be more willing to give you a blowjob where she
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  didn't get anything from it because you're the kind of guy
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  who does that too. So if you ever think why is it
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  not happening that she gives me a blowjob to completion just out
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  of the blue, just like the women do in porn?
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  Have you ever given her an orgasm and not expected to get
• 13:25
  off? Maybe not because that's not as
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  common as as the inverse as I'm saying.
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  So a lot of stuff to think about and to discuss, and this would
• 13:34
  be a great one. If you are in a marriage where
• 13:36
  you discuss sex and you're not in a marriage where you are over
• 13:40
  sending my stuff to your spouse to the point that they say stop,
• 13:43
  you know, you could potentially discuss this podcast or just the
• 13:47
  topics from this podcast. What do you feel about, you
• 13:50
  know, oral sex? Like, why is it that it's gone
• 13:53
  on, that it's, you know, stopped in your mind?
• 13:56
  Why don't you really go down on me anymore?
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  If you express curiosity, then it's going to go a lot better
• 14:01
  than just sulking and making passive aggressive jokes and
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  stuff, you know? And a lot of women are really
• 14:07
  scared to say something like, well, it takes like, you know,
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  about 7 times longer than it used to.
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  And afterwards we don't have sex.
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  And that's the only part I look forward to.
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  And also when you try to get me off manually after you're done
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  with blowjob, you're like really shit at it because you're half
• 14:27
  asleep and actually you're not good at that anyway.
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  And I've never tried to make you good at that because I figured
• 14:32
  that we could just have intercourse.
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  Now of course, remember that 75% of women do not get off during
• 14:37
  intercourse alone. But the way that a lot of
• 14:39
  couples make up for this is whatever their routine is, you
• 14:43
  know, like whether it's a different position that also
• 14:46
  stimulates the clitoris and or it's using the vibrator or it's
• 14:52
  him going down on her and then they have sex either way.
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  The point is that if if a man wants a blowjob to completion,
• 15:01
  he has to think about all of these factors to understand
• 15:04
  what's going into it. Because also as you get older,
• 15:09
  many men don't perform as well the next day.
• 15:12
  So it's not even like that that's going to turn her on.
• 15:15
  And it does turn women on some women to give a blowjob And then
• 15:18
  though you're going to be ready in the morning, a lot of guys
• 15:21
  are not anymore and they think they are.
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  And then their wives say to me individually, well you know it's
• 15:26
  not as hard as it used to be. It's not as you know he's does
• 15:28
  he needs a couple days. If you do not think there's the
• 15:32
  Netflix show, easy is has a scene like this and you should
• 15:35
  watch the trajectory of this couple who ends up in an open
• 15:39
  marriage. There's these various little
• 15:41
  stories on that show. I only really followed a a
• 15:44
  couple of them and then I stopped.
• 15:47
  But the for season 1-2 and three episode, one of each of those
• 15:51
  seasons follows this couple and she says exactly that in the
• 15:54
  first session as she's talking to a friend or something is
• 15:57
  basically it's not as hard as it used to be meaning his penis and
• 16:01
  therefore sex is not as enjoyable.
• 16:02
  And this is something that women talk about like to the
• 16:06
  therapist, not to anybody else really.
• 16:08
  And it impacts things So you know when And the larger take
• 16:13
  away from this is nothing is as complex.
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  Rather everything is more complex than just one person is
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  lazy and doesn't give a shit like that.
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  Just is like a reductive, simplistic sort of narrative
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  that only serves to make the marriage feel worse and to pit
• 16:30
  people against one another. And that is not what you need in
• 16:33
  your marriage. So having more, you know,
• 16:37
  deeper, wider discussions about any topic, including oral sex in
• 16:42
  your marriage is necessary if you really want to empathize
• 16:45
  with each other's perspective and come to any solutions.
• 16:48
  Because here we just had a couple of solutions.
• 16:50
  She could do it halfway right more of the time.
• 16:53
  If she didn't think that, then you were going to push for all
• 16:55
  the way, because maybe you wouldn't push for her to do it
• 16:57
  all the way. If you realized how all the way,
• 17:00
  you know, kind of ruins it for her in a sense.
• 17:03
  If she wants to engage in sex, she does too many things.
• 17:07
  And the book Wanting Sex Again, by the way, by Laurie Watson
• 17:10
  talks about this. If she engages in sex too many
• 17:13
  times without having an orgasm or sexual activity, she's going
• 17:16
  to be turned off of it because it's literal behavior training.
• 17:19
  So if she's like giving you blowjobs and like not getting
• 17:22
  off and that's like what sex has become, she's not going to get
• 17:25
  turned on anymore by it. She's going to find it to be a
• 17:27
  chore and she's going to find it to be kind of gross over time
• 17:30
  because you're basically, it's it's like punishment.
• 17:34
  You know? Like she gets excited, you come,
• 17:36
  there's nothing that happens for her, nothing good anyway.
• 17:40
  And this would also be a very good opener to talk about your
• 17:42
  oral sex and manual stimulation skills and if you could improve
• 17:46
  at those. Right.
• 17:47
  And you know, so maybe she's then not going to want to as
• 17:50
  much. So you'll win the battle of
• 17:52
  getting the blowjob today, but you'll lose the war where she
• 17:55
  kind of doesn't really want to have sex much, you know, or even
• 17:58
  as much as she did, even if that's not very much.
• 18:01
  All right. Well, I hope you guys found this
• 18:02
  interesting. And I know you did because oral
• 18:04
  sex is always a an asked for topic in in the domain of sex
• 18:09
  and couples counseling. And please do subscribe and I
• 18:13
  will talk to all you guys soon. Bye.
• 18:14
  Bye.