Latest / Recruiting Evolution / FDE Industry Spotlight | Redefining Executive Recruiting: Adaptability, Technology, and People-First Leadership with Vaughn Emery, Vice President of Revenue Growth - Duffy Group
Transcript
- Vaughn Emery [00:00:00]: You have to be very consistent in embracing technology. It's here. It makes our processes more efficient. But don't get off track with the shiny new object. I love AI. I use AI. It is definitely a tool, if you will. Another arrow in the quiver, but it is not the be all, end all. Vaughn Emery [00:00:24]: I don't feel like we're getting away from the human aspect. So when you look at it as a process or as a tool, it's fantastic. Make it a part of the process. Kortney Harmon [00:00:36]: Hi, I'm Kortney Harmon, Director of Industry Relations at Crelate. This is the Industry Spotlight, a series of the Full desk experience, a Crelate original podcast. In this series, we will talk with top leaders and influencers who are shaping the talent industry, shining a light on popular trends, the latest news, and the stories that laid the groundwork for their success. Welcome back to another episode of the Full Desk Experience, Industry Spotlight. Today I am so pleased to welcome Von Emery. She's the Vice President of Revenue Growth at the Duffy group. With over 20 years of experience in staffing and recruiting, Vaughn has established herself as a strategic people sales leader who is connecting talent with growing organizations. I am so excited to have Vaughn here. Kortney Harmon [00:01:28]: She's currently with the Duffy Group and she is helping redefine their processes and everything that they're doing with their research. So, Vaughn, I am so excited. I know we got to chat last week, but thank you so much for taking the time out of your busy day to join me today. Vaughn Emery [00:01:45]: Thanks, Kortney. I'm excited to be here. Appreciate it. Kortney Harmon [00:01:48]: I love it. So I obviously know a little bit about you and the Duffy Group, but can you do me a favor and tell our listeners a little bit more about how you got into this industry because no one does it intentionally. And just a little bit more about your journey and then we'll get into the Duffy Group. Vaughn Emery [00:02:03]: Absolutely. So way back over 20 years ago, I have always been a very curious and adventure centric person, so had gone to San Diego on a whim and decided in one week's time that I needed to live there. And so I moved there without a job, much to my father's chagrin. And I walked into a temporary staffing agency and said, I need a job. And they were just about to open a new branch and so got to know the branch manager of the place I was interviewing at and she said, you should come work with us. And to your point, never thought I'd be a recruiter or in sales or anything like that. And the rest is history. It started what has become a really really good career. Kortney Harmon [00:02:51]: I love that. And tell me a little bit about the places because anybody that listens to this podcast has known majority of the places that you have worked because there are some big names there. So can you tell me? You don't have to tell me in detail, but I would love to know a little clip about each place that you've worked. Vaughn Emery [00:03:05]: So the first one that I worked at was at Apple one and that was the place I walked into looking for work. But I've worked for some big name brands as well. So I've worked for the Ronstadts and the Homeworlds. Great companies, great organizations. Definitely you learn a lot in companies of that size. And it's only been in recent that I've worked at smaller companies. So I was at Corporate Job bank until they sold and then most recently now at Coffee Group. Kortney Harmon [00:03:33]: And how long have you been there? Vaughn Emery [00:03:34]: Six months. Kortney Harmon [00:03:35]: That's right, yeah. So you, in your career, you've really worked across various different places. So. And now that you're at the Duffy Group, tell me a little bit about the Duffy Group, what they do and kind of their model. Vaughn Emery [00:03:51]: So our model is completely unique. Most people who are in the recruiting industry are very familiar with contingent staffing, retained staffing, headhunters is a term that's often used and very much we are executive recruiters. Our model is so unique. It is based on lots of research and research for recruiting. So Kathleen trademarked the term recruitment research. And the difference is that we really dig in. We do a very long intake with our clients. We learn about their mission, their vision and their values and we talk about things that they do in their community. Vaughn Emery [00:04:35]: How do they celebrate their wins? So we take a very, very deep dive outside of the black and white job description and really get to know our clients. And I think that's what stands us apart the most. Kortney Harmon [00:04:51]: I love that. And you talked about you tell me whether you want to feel free to talk about this. You said most people are used to the contingent model. Do you guys not do contingent? Vaughn Emery [00:05:00]: Contingent model is typically a direct hire. It's a higher percentage, just like retained and it's attached to the candidate's compensation. So the higher the candidate compensation, the more the firm is paid. Nothing wrong with that. Very successful way to do business. How we do it is we work in billable time. So it is much more cost effective and sometimes we can end up saving upwards of 50% of what a fee would be. In addition, we're not only presenting candidates at the highest level of compensation, we are Presenting candidates that meet the culture and the mission of the organization. Kortney Harmon [00:05:44]: I love that. It's such a different outlook and different perspective as you're working so closely, hand in hand, you take that transactional piece completely out of it whenever you're doing it. Vaughn Emery [00:05:56]: Yes, I love that. Kortney Harmon [00:05:58]: I love it. Okay, so you have worked across different sectors, whether it's healthcare, office administration, manufacturing. Talk to me how this whole diverse experience has really shaped your approach to developing effective sales processes. Because right now people are struggling in sales. They want to grow this year, they want to put their head down. Talk to me about what that looks like based on your experience. Vaughn Emery [00:06:22]: Well, I think no matter what industry it is one, you've got to know who you're targeting, you've got to know who your prospects are. You have to keep your ear to the ground and listen what sectors are growing, what sectors are pulling back. Talk to the people that you're already currently doing business with. So when you talk about processes, honestly, for every industry that I've worked in, it's the same. And that is you've got to get out there and talk to people. Because if you're not talking to people, you don't know what's going on out there. So building processes around that, of course, but truly the biggest factor is knowing who your client is. Kortney Harmon [00:07:06]: I'm going to go out on a limb here and I'm going to ask a question I don't know the answer to. When you are developing those processes, is it getting face to face with these clients? Because a lot of times in our world we can do things virtually. So are you integrating that face to face being hands on with them too? Vaughn Emery [00:07:24]: Absolutely. So they are face to face when we can. We work nationally and we help teams across the U.S. so whenever we can, we try to do face to face relationship building. We're in our own communities, we do a lot of relationship building, but obviously there's times where it might be a remote location and we're just not able to be face to face. So we do a lot of virtual next best thing. Kortney Harmon [00:07:50]: I completely understand and I have seen both work. I worked remotely and I know just it's trying to break up the monotony of what's happening. In your current role at the Duffy Group, you're really helping redefine executive recruitment based on the model you guys have. What are some key indicators that told you maybe the traditional model needs a little disruption because the foundations has always been the same in our industry, but obviously it could use a little disruption. What are Those indicators for you. Vaughn Emery [00:08:22]: You know, it's interesting coming in and meeting with Kathleen and learning about the differences and how they do it. And I think, honestly, the biggest is the relationship. But I keep going back to that. But it is so very true. We spend so much time in our communities as salespeople, and we really do business with people who are in alignment with our values and the same things that we do. So that I'm not sure is disruptive, but I do feel that is unique. I think how we've disrupted it, though, is really, we spend so much more time on the front end with our clients than I think, in my experience, most firms do that. Do what we do again, we dig really deep, and then on the back end, we dig very deep into the candidate. Vaughn Emery [00:09:13]: So it's not just about their skills. But tell me why you took that last job. Tell me what their company's vision and mission was. Tell me how that aligns with the story I'm telling you about the client I'm representing today. So that's what's unique to me, is the amount of time we put into learning the candidate and the client stories. Kortney Harmon [00:09:36]: I can imagine, as I worked and trained with people over the years, the deep relationship that you have, probably, I'm assuming, and I know what that does on live podcasts right now, so I understand if this is not correct. I can assume that leads to reoccurring revenue for you. It's not necessarily the one and done that so many people have a problem. I filled a job. I haven't gotten any more business from them. I think your. Your aspect and the problems your organization have are probably completely different. Vaughn Emery [00:10:05]: Absolutely. Absolutely. It's actually something that we do track and monitor. But the interesting thing is some of the organizations we work with might be a small nonprofit, so they may not need to use this for a search again. But it is not uncommon that at some point we are introduced to one of their colleagues or someone that they've worked with who can now also utilize our model. So you're absolutely right, and that's the goal, and we're really proud of that. Kortney Harmon [00:10:33]: You mentioned tracking. And I'm a KPI nerd, as we established earlier. I like to call myself a nerd. I love KPIs, and I love training and tracking. I was a. I was a sports. I was an athlete prior to. So, like, in order to. Kortney Harmon [00:10:47]: For me to excel at my sports career, I needed to understand what my stats were. Same thing with my recruiting desk. With your track record of processes and people I'm sure that's something that you're pretty into. What do you believe are the most overlooked KPIs in our industry that actually drive growth when it's tracked properly. Vaughn Emery [00:11:07]: See, you know, cost to hire is something that I think is probably left on the table. Quite often anytime that a company does not have the person in place, then they're losing money, right? And then they're going to pay us to find that person. So we have to be very cognizant of our clients time and their resources. So that's something that we, we track. And I'm proud of that fact that we are good stewards of our customers finances as well. So we want to make sure that once a candidate is placed, we're also tracking the candidate. Even though they're working for the organization, we keep in touch with those candidates. Are they happy? Are they meeting and exceeding the KPIs that the customer put for? So that's really important. Vaughn Emery [00:11:53]: Of course we have our internal sales KPIs that are pretty standard, but that's important that we're tracking on the back end. Kortney Harmon [00:12:02]: Oftentimes we look at KPIs only from our internal team. What equals success? Phone time, how many emails? While I understand that you're taking yourself out of that almost as an unselfish factor to be like, I need to think about my clients finances and the success that they have. So that goes again with that beyond the transactional, eliminating the concept of do you need a guy? I got a guy and here's what I can do. And here is, is it making, is it working? Vaughn Emery [00:12:32]: Right, Absolutely. And that goes back to the conversation or the question earlier is it does come back full circle. So then what happens is we build those strong relationships and most importantly that trust so does come back to fold. So we're recommended, I would guess much more often than maybe other firms are who are more transactional. Kortney Harmon [00:12:55]: I'm going to go back a smidge. I mean, because not just at your time at the Duffy Group, you've led teams across multiple states, multiple offices. What's your framework for ensuring consistent process execution while still allowing adaptability? Because honestly, sometimes us as leaders will put a process in place and we'll walk away and we just assume it's being done or there's no wiggle room in the process. Both conversations I've had with you thus far has always included process and I love that as a trainer in the industry. So talk to me about what's that framework to ensure consistent process execution while still Allowing for adaptability. Vaughn Emery [00:13:34]: So I think anywhere you go, your point? Yes. You have to have some sort of a framework. What are the guidelines that we're going to follow? If you look back historically, what has given us success? How many calls does that look like? How many meet and greets does that look like? You do need to track those. But when you talk about flexibility, every salesperson is a little bit different. Some are more successful in person than they are on the phone. Some have come to the organization with relationships across the way. Some come and they've never worked in that particular state before. So they're starting from scratch. Vaughn Emery [00:14:10]: So when you take that framework, you also have to take that individual and build that framework around it, knowing and giving them the autonomy to go outside of that a little bit to get the success that they need. So as long as they're successful and I do one on ones and have great conversations with my team and guide them and lead them, keep them in the lane, but I do allow them that flexibility to have some autonomy, creativity. And if they come to me and say, I want to try something new, let's try it, let's try it. Kortney Harmon [00:14:46]: In this industry, like we said, the foundations are very much the same, but tech is ever evolving. That's going to change your processes. How we approach people is going to change your processes. I was on an American Staffing association call and everyone's like, AI, AI, AI. They're like, the sky's falling. But in reality it's also someone goes, do you remember when email came out? Vaughn Emery [00:15:10]: Yeah. Kortney Harmon [00:15:11]: But it's the idea that it's like it's just a car. It's an avenue to get you to where you need to go. You as the human are still doing, still being the reason people work for you and with you. Vaughn Emery [00:15:24]: Yeah. You have to adapt to technology. Not only does it make our processes more efficient, but the tracking, I mean, when we started in this industry, we were running ads in the Sunday newspaper. So is the Internet more efficient? Is the way to reach a candidate more efficient? Absolutely. But at the end of the day, I think any organization that, that still thinks that people are not important part of the process, especially in the recruiting world, it's a mistake. Because a computer cannot pull out culture, they cannot pull out values, they cannot pull out. If it's an AI generated resume, is this person that I'm speaking to on the phone with this fabulous resume, does the conversation match the paper? So you need that human interaction for sure. Kortney Harmon [00:16:17]: That's great. I love that. It's top of Mind for you, for your teams. When you and I chatted the last time you talked about you've been in many organizations, you've gone into the whole concept to say, how do I help you grow your teams and your markets? Okay. When you typically join for those reasons, what are the first three areas you typically assess? There are oftentimes we have operational leaders that listen to this call and they're like, I want to know how Vaughn did all the things that she did. So I want to know at least the top three things that think whenever you go join for growing teams in markets. Vaughn Emery [00:16:52]: Yeah. So the first thing I look at is the framework. One, is there a framework in place? So do we have processes in place? Two, are they being followed and what does that look like for not just the organization? But then dig deeper into is each individual salesperson following this basic process? So that comes with technology. It comes with how they're managing their clients and their prospects. You have to look at all of that and kind of take a deep dive into that. And then I go back and I look at the most successful sales people in the organization, and I look back and I look at historical of what they've done using technology and maybe where they're struggling to be successful. And oftentimes it can tell you a complete story, and you can build on that to take the ones that are not as successful into successful areas, roles. What do I want to say here? Take them into success, and the ones that are successful, you can even build on that more. Vaughn Emery [00:17:54]: So that's what I do. I really look at what processes are already in place. Do they need improvement, how they're being used, Are they being measured? And then I look to the people that are on my team and I evaluate them based on what the processes are and where I need to tweak. Kortney Harmon [00:18:11]: Okay, so I'm gonna call you on the rug for a second. Whenever you go into these and you say, is there a process or is it being followed? I know from my perspective, like, we assume sometimes that there's a process, but oftentimes I. I didn't see that were following a process. It was kind of like a basic structure, but it was kind of the wild, wild west. Whenever I've gone into places, have you seen the same thing or have you seen people more structured, Kind of give me your take. I don't need you to throw anyone under the bus. But, like, it's to the point. We are very reactionary in our jobs, and it's not for fault of not wanting to follow A process. Kortney Harmon [00:18:46]: Maybe we don't have the right tech to follow the process the right way, or the right boxes to pop up when they need to pop up, or the right questions, or the forms. It really comes down to much more. So give me your perspective. Whenever you've done these things, what have you seen? Vaughn Emery [00:19:00]: So I would say 99% of the time when I walk into an organization and I am being hired to maybe fix something that's broken, the processes are not there or they're not being followed or managed. Happens. Easy fix, really set the framework up, let the people go, manage their processes, have your one on ones, keep the guidelines in place, but let them bump around as in bumper cars and try new things if that's what's going to get you to the next level. But the organizations that I've walked into that have done very, very well. Typically it's one or the other. Either the process isn't there, but you have successful people that just need to grow and maybe it's because they're not following the process. So it's a little mamby pamby, if you will, which is not a technical word. And then the ones that don't have a process or that have a process that might be where they're just not following it. Vaughn Emery [00:19:58]: And you just need to retrain, reestablish the importance, build that trust with your teams that promise. I promise if you put in the funnel, it will come out the other side. Kortney Harmon [00:20:09]: How often do you feel like you should have to address that? Or is that something that's a constant fix? Like as these processes, do you always have your thumb on that pulse or is it like, well, twice a year I look at this or what is your perspective on that? Vaughn Emery [00:20:22]: In my one on ones, not that I'm a micromanager because that inherently will ruin a team very quickly in my opinion. But we do go over what their successes are, what they were. But we also look at what was put into the funnel this week and it doesn't mean just phone calls and emails. Were you out in the community? Did you do any volunteer work? Did you attend networking? Who did you call that was a client and ask for, who else do they know that may benefit from our model? So there's a lot of ways. And so that conversation can sometimes be very organic, which is my nature, very organic. But at the same time we're talking about all of the things that keep that engine running and that ball, that sales ball moving forward. Chris Hesson-Ad [00:21:12]: Recruiting is complex. Sometimes you just need a hand, someone beside you to Give you that nudge to keep you on course. Introducing the new Crelate copilot. Copilot is Crelate's AI assistant, but it's more than just artificial intelligence. Copilot brings you recruiter intelligence. Need a quick reminder to reply to a candidate's email? Or maybe you're stuck writing up that new job description. Need a nudge to send a follow up to that client who hasn't gotten back to you? Copilot is there to help you craft it effortlessly. With over 30 skills at your fingertips, Crelate Copilot doesn't just keep you organized, it keeps you ahead of the game. Chris Hesson-Ad [00:21:56]: Because recruiting is isn't just about filling roles. It's about building relationships. And crelate co pilot is the partner you've been waiting for. Check us out and create the future of recruiting. Kortney Harmon [00:22:16]: The staffing and recruiting industry experiences, regular market fluctuations. We talked about this a little bit ago and in the idea of what people are focusing on now. But how do you adjust your sales processes during the downturns versus the growth period? Do you have any different actions? Do you alter what your processes are? If people look at 2024, I know some people have had record years in 2024 and others were like it was survived till 25. We're here now, so talk to me. Do you adjust those processes? What do you look at from a sales leader and how do you adjust your teams? Vaughn Emery [00:22:51]: So it depends on why. So if you were to take like a Covid and the whole world shut down, we adjusted a little bit. And instead of calling clients and checking in and saying, you know, what can we help you with? From a search perspective, likely they weren't hiring. They're trying to maintain the staff they have. So it was more about that relationship building, checking in on them. How are things going? Are you still safe from layoffs and just having conversations that they have to mean? Well, I mean you have to be sincere about it. But that also, again, you've got your ear to the ground. What industries may be coming back sooner than others. Vaughn Emery [00:23:30]: So you know that, but you don't stop. You don't stop polling, you don't stop networking, you don't stop having conversations. You don't stop from a recruiting perspective having conversations with candidates. So I think that's, that's the biggest takeaway is what industries are growing. Because there's always an industry that's growing. I mean, I live and breathe about that. So you have to make adjustments, but your process should not stop. Kortney Harmon [00:24:01]: So what is you should continue to make the calls. It's just what you're talking about is different. Vaughn Emery [00:24:07]: Absolutely. Absolutely. The biggest thing with sales is that we don't ever let our foot off the gas. Kortney Harmon [00:24:15]: Great piece of advice. And it sounds so simple the way you put it. It just sounds. I wish it was that simple. I mean, it is in reality. It's just being present and being forefront and I get it. Vaughn Emery [00:24:25]: Being present. That's a great way to put it, too. Kortney Harmon [00:24:28]: You've talked about developing teams. How has your approach to team development evolved through your career? And I really want to know what prompted this shifts more. More focus of that. Vaughn Emery [00:24:39]: So I think way back in the day, when I first got into management, and we'll be silly here for a minute, I wear my own suits and I have my little bun on my head and everything was, you know, by the book and it was very rigid. And here's your KPIs, and this is what we're going to do. And I think what's involved is probably just myself being mature and experienced is listening to the team because at the end of the day, they're the ones out doing the work. And so they are the ones who are hearing what's going on. So you have to. You have to give them the autonomy. And I've used that word a lot, but I truly believe in that, that there has to be some autonomy. Again, you keep them in the lane with, you know, the bowling ball, the bowling bumpers down, keep them in the lane, but let them tell you what the next step is. Vaughn Emery [00:25:34]: Let them tell you about what's happening in the market, and then adjust how you guide and lead them based on that. Kortney Harmon [00:25:42]: I love it because I understand that process like, this is the way it is, but this is the way it is now. Is there anything else that has shifted how you manage teams besides that? Vaughn Emery [00:25:53]: I think going into the different organizations and working with all the different leaders that I've been fortunate to work with, and there's been many, and so many of them are great. But also I've had some great leaders that have led me. Kathleen Duffy is one of them, obviously, and she pours everything she has into her team. And I will say I pick up on things. How I lead my team is based on how I'm being led. And so I think that has changed me in many ways for the positive. And sometimes when I've worked for maybe a leader that didn't see eye to eye or we weren't in alignment, it taught me maybe what I wouldn't want to do the next time I had. Kortney Harmon [00:26:37]: A team, I'm going to shift gears. You've worked with both temporary and executive recruitment over the years. How do the successful metrics fundamentally differ on how you adapt your leadership approach? Vaughn Emery [00:26:52]: I think with temporary staffing, and not that there isn't relationship building, but quite honestly there's not typically a lot of time for relationship building because you work in such high volumes and it's a needed, it's definitely a needed recruiting function. I still believe in that model. But because you move so fast and you move so differently, your opportunity to build those long term relationships and have that success and get those referrals and spend the more relationship building time with your client is completely different with executive recruiting. So it's really taking a deep breath. It's, you know, you don't close a deal in a month. You can, but I mean there's relationship building, there's conversation. The fact that recruitment research is so unique, sometimes there's one to two to three conversations with other people in the room to understand how we're cost effective, but we provide such a higher quality. So the sale for sure is different and it's, it's just more thoughtful. Kortney Harmon [00:28:05]: And staffing is so need for speed, obviously that time to fill. But I think that industry has taken a piece from the book from executive. They're seeing the impact of what can happen when they have better relationships or someone in the seat at a manufacturing plant, what that looks like they're able to develop and work differently. Vaughn Emery [00:28:27]: Yes. Kortney Harmon [00:28:28]: So I love that you talked about candidates a little bit ago whenever we were talking about the other side, whenever you're looking like, is that candidate fitting for the client's needs when building a candidate database fit for today and tomorrow? I think you mentioned that in your profile. What future trends are you preparing for when it comes to candidates and thinking about the tomorrow of candidates? Vaughn Emery [00:28:54]: So one of the things that we're hearing on the streets, if you will, is that a lot of organizations do not have succession planning at the executive and C level, which being six months in sometimes is shocking to me because that is such a pivotal role in an organization. Obviously CEOs retire and executives retire or move on. So when we look at that, a lot of the conversations that we have with our prospects and clients is about coming in and succession planning. And we have practice leaders who will speak to boards and organizations on what that looks like maybe a year in advance of when that person's going to be retiring. And we help them through that process. So that is A great way to look at that is really helping our customers prepare for the inevitable. We don't build a database of available candidates, but we're always talking to people. So we're a little bit different in that way too. Vaughn Emery [00:29:59]: So we're not running ads, collecting resumes. And then when the client calls and says, hey, I need, you know, an engineer, we don't go through and say, here's all the available engineers. Our process is so unique and so different that until we've actually done the intake, got to know the client, what that job holistically looks like, we don't start recruiting. Kortney Harmon [00:30:22]: I think that's amazing. And you actually offer that service of succession planning to your clients as part of the search? Vaughn Emery [00:30:29]: Yes, absolutely. Kortney Harmon [00:30:31]: I love that talk about a differentiator and of investment. Oftentimes, you know, I've had clients that have said, let me give you a presentation or research for your, for your board meeting. But like, hey, let me sit in on this. Let me help you from the stance of we see this way more frequently in, in volume than you do. I would love to be able to be your partner in this. There's nothing that speaks more volume to investment in your client than that. Vaughn Emery [00:30:56]: Sure, absolutely. Because support, you know, we think about when we look at boards and they come from all different roles and all different industries and their knowledge is so important, but when it comes to recruiting, they may not be the experts. When it comes to succession planning, they may not be the expert. So let us come in and help you with that. Kortney Harmon [00:31:16]: I'm going to go back to process because the Emma process, I can't get away from it. I'm so sorry. When and how I'm going to. Not when necessarily, but how do you identify a successful process and how do you know when a successful process has reached its ceiling and it requires innovation? Because there are often. And we see this right now with AI or whatever that looks like. But how do you know? It's like I get this question all the time. How do I know? When do I know? What is the red flags? What are the things that should be screaming at me that I'm not seeing? Vaughn Emery [00:31:49]: I think once the process that you're looking at. So let's just talk about a technical process. So once you're working and looking at a technical process and you have that historical data of what's going in, are you getting out what you need? Are you having success, successful searches filled, are you tracking your dollars properly? Do you have a good idea what your seasonality looks like? If all of those things come together, but you're not growing. That's where you might start looking at that process and poking holes in the gaps. Kortney Harmon [00:32:27]: Growth is a big conversation in 2025, at least what I'm hearing. Vaughn Emery [00:32:32]: Yes, it is. It is. Kortney Harmon [00:32:35]: You mentioned tech process, so I'm going to put you on the spot. I'm so sorry, Vaughn, to do this. What role does tech play in your process development strategy with all the recent advancements of recruiting tools? Because it seems like the next time you blink, there's five more tools out there. Vaughn Emery [00:32:49]: So I think you have to be one very consistent in embracing technology. It's here. It makes our processes more efficient, but don't get off track with the shiny new object. So everyone's talking about AI. I love AI. I use AI. It is definitely a tool, if you will, another arrow in the quiver. But it is not the be all, end all. Vaughn Emery [00:33:17]: I don't feel like we're getting away from the human aspect. So when you look at it as a process or as a tool, it's fantastic. Make it a part of the process. Don't get stuck on one tool or one process and don't get distracted by all the shiny new things coming out all the time because technology is ever growing. And it's easy. It's easy. Kortney Harmon [00:33:41]: Who evaluates that stuff for you guys internally? And it doesn't have to be names, but like, are you the person? Is there one? Do you have one person? Or do you have a committee that evaluates the tech that you know, like, hey, our office needs to check this out. How do you guys approach that? Vaughn Emery [00:33:56]: So we have a great leadership team. And so lots of conversations happen around the table when it comes to more the IT or the technical processes. We have a director of sales operations and we work very closely with her, so she handles more of the technical and how IT functions. And then she'll work with me, the practice leaders and other leaders in the organization that use our tools and say, hey, does this make sense to you? Is this giving you what you need? And so really, it is collective and I believe that it should be because of how we robustly use those tools. And everybody uses it a little bit. Kortney Harmon [00:34:39]: Differently, a different lens, so to say. I have two more questions for you and then I'll let you go. One I gave you and one I'm not. I have not. Number one. I can see you, like, cringe right there. You're like, oh, no, I don't know. I know you don't have a crystal ball, but looking at the next decade in our industry, do you have any concept or what fundamental process changes do you believe organizations are going to have to embrace to remain competitive? Vaughn Emery [00:35:08]: I think using firms, you know, there's still a lot of organizations out there that spend, I don't even want to guess how many thousands and thousands of dollars with recruiting tools that don't work for them. They're not vetting the proper candidates. They're not doing succession planning. So depending on what your organization looks like, whether it is a contingent firm or an executive recruiting firm, embrace it. We are the experts. Go build your products, go sell your wares. Let us help you get the right people to do that. And I think, I don't know if that's like new news to anybody, but I think it is going to become so much more important for organizations to look to outside firms to help them find the people that have the skills that they're looking for. Vaughn Emery [00:36:05]: And it doesn't matter what those skills are. Whether it's a forklift driver or CFO for a hospital, I think it is very important to really open your eyes to that 100%. Kortney Harmon [00:36:18]: I couldn't agree with you more. Let's take the flip side of that coin. What about recruiting firms? What are they going to have to do with their processes to be competitive to the people that are looking to. Vaughn Emery [00:36:30]: Find us with their processes? I don't know if there's a process, but I mean, you just cannot get away from the human side of things. So you can have an AI bot go out and send 200, hey, I'm hiring LinkedIn invites, but at the end of the day, you still have to have people, you still have to talk to the candidate. So if they're still thinking that technology is going to be the end all, be all of their hiring processes or garnering reputable business. I personally believe I don't have a crystal ball, but I personally believe that will hurt them in the end. Because the relationships on both sides, client relationship and the candidate relationship, is most importantly done by human interaction. Kortney Harmon [00:37:16]: I just believe that I've said this a bunch. From my perspective, how many times do you call someone and it's like a bot picks up and you're like, all I do is want to talk to somebody, push zero or, or I don't know about you. I live in a very small town in Ohio and someone will always write me because it's an AI written generated email and it'll say, my parents met in your town at this cute little diner. I'm like, that's Never existed. I've lived here all my life. It's just funny because while it's picking up data and assumptions and personality, it still gets things wrong. Vaughn Emery [00:37:52]: Oh, absolutely. Kortney Harmon [00:37:53]: And it makes people lose trust in you and your process and your company without having the impact that you intended it to have. Where? And just like we look at, you know, people work for or people work with people, not necessarily companies. And it's the same thing. We want to make sure that we have that human in the loop to be able to make the impact we truly mean to have with the people of why we got into this business in the beginning. Vaughn Emery [00:38:20]: Right, Right. We change lives. Let's be honest. We change lives. We help companies grow, we help people pay their mortgage. Someone who's looking for a dream job, we help them get it. I mean, there's nothing that feels better than that. All the processes, all the framework, all the things that we do, the end goal should be that. Vaughn Emery [00:38:42]: And I just truly feel that. And I think that to your point, all those years ago, when I was looking for my job and wanted to live in my dream city, at the time, you know, that's what made a difference for me. If somebody saw something in me from a human perspective and unbeknownst to them, probably built a career for me. So I do believe that I would like to just add anyone out there who's maybe not familiar with writing a resume. If you use AI to write your resume, make sure you go back and look at it, because words that you wouldn't use, experience that you don't have. It's very important that your resume is a true reflection of your experience and who you are. Kortney Harmon [00:39:33]: Great words of advice. Is there anything else you'd tell any operations leaders at recruiting and staffing organizations that are maybe in a place like yours that want to help their firm grow? Is there any piece of advice that you'd give them that you haven't gave them so far in this 40 some minutes of recording? Vaughn Emery [00:39:50]: I would say when you look at your recruiting function, at your organization, really have an open lens on the talent you have on your team. What's the most important? Do they have a succession plan? And when you look at all of those things, depending on the type of organization, it's okay to bring in a firm to kind of help you look at that a little bit and say, my team can handle all of these particular roles that we have, but I may need some help with these roles. So just have a lens open to what the recruiting canvas looks like these days and don't get hung up on. It might cost a little bit of money, but it's going to save you in the long run. Kortney Harmon [00:40:38]: And that is so true in the value that we portray to the companies that we work with. And sometimes and I worked with companies are like, well, my value is I've been in business for 35 years. Well, that's valuable. That's not necessarily the value the client sees and giving them metrics like you talked about. Cost to hire KPIs that their candidates are filling. That's the value. That's the value that you provide these organizations. And if you highlight those, that is your differentiator as your firm of working with them differently than anybody else has ever worked with them. Vaughn Emery [00:41:10]: Absolutely. Cost to hire. Quality to hire is important too, right? So we're saving you money, whoever it is. But Duffy, we're saving you money. But most important out of that though is did we provide a quality hire? Did we give you the person who believes as you do in your mission and your values, they're going to grow your organization or improve your processes or create something new and shiny for whatever it is the product that you're selling. So that's the most important thing is getting to that person and not spending a lot of time trying to either find that person through maybe traditional methods that we know just inundate everybody with maybe not the right candidate. Kortney Harmon [00:41:55]: Yeah, Vaughan, thank you so much. I've covered my questions and then some. I appreciate you being with me, your insights and everywhere that you've been and your experience for developing effective processes, leading teams with transformation talking KPIs, your role at the Duffy Group really exemplifies of how you're rethinking approaches and that can lead to better outcomes and growth for our team. So I appreciate your time and your wisdom and I know our listeners have probably gained obviously gold nuggets to say what can I be doing different in my firm and my agency and I can go look at today? So thank you so much for the time today. Vaughn Emery [00:42:35]: Thank you, Kortney. I appreciate it. Kortney Harmon [00:42:39]: I'm Kortney Harmon with crelate. Thanks for joining us for this episode of Industry Spotlight, a new series from the Full Desk Experience. New episodes will be dropping monthly. Be sure you're subscribed to our podcast so you can catch the next Industry Spotlight episode and all episodes of the Full Desk Experience here or wherever you listen.