Latest / Camp Classics / Red Sonja (1985) w. special guest M.J. Bassett

Transcript

Red Sonja (1985) w. special guest M.J. Bassett · Camp Classics

• 0:00
  We're going to need a bigger swab.
• 0:01
  Get away from her, you bitch. Classic.
• 0:07
  He was in the Amazon final when she was researching spiders
• 0:10
  right before she died. No, Hannah, you.
• 0:18
  Thought you become a prostitute, you're a dog at it.
• 0:20
  I used. To love doggy chow.
• 0:23
  I used to love doggy chow too. I don't need any man's help.
• 0:28
  I'm Crystal. Put me over your knee and beat
• 0:32
  some manners into me. Yeah, it's Jackie.
• 0:36
  Oh, sorry. Wrong person.
• 0:37
  It's baby Lame. And welcome to CAP Classics.
• 0:45
  A stupid cop. Oh, I was trying to be funny
• 0:47
  there and I said. I like stupid cod past.
• 0:50
  Yeah, stupid. Well, I was going to try and mix
• 0:53
  it up with what I was saying. I was going to say a stupid
• 0:55
  podcast about thoughtful movies. Oh, is that what we've watched
• 0:59
  today? Yeah, I think.
• 1:00
  So it's it's Shakespeare. It is really, Yeah.
• 1:08
  Lies. I'm a Nelly.
• 1:09
  Lies. Baby, are you going away?
• 1:12
  You go on a little a little trip.
• 1:13
  Yeah, I'm leaving the podcast. I don't have to say this, but
• 1:17
  I'm going on a break with you, Crystal.
• 1:19
  Oh no. Yeah, and let's make it like the
• 1:22
  Rachel and Ross thing so you better not see anyone else
• 1:26
  because. Otherwise, that'll be two
• 1:30
  seasons worth of content. Yeah.
• 1:31
  Oh my God, I can't believe I'm quoting friends.
• 1:33
  This is why I need to go away I think.
• 1:36
  Where are you going? I'm going to America.
• 1:38
  I've heard it's meant to be a really great place to visit at
• 1:40
  this time of the world. You know what I mean?
• 1:43
  Molly, you in danger, girl? No, I'm going to be an artist.
• 1:46
  I'm going to go and create in a in a Hut somewhere in the middle
• 1:51
  of nowhere. Is that what they're calling the
• 1:53
  Betty Ford Clinic these days? I feel like that's such a
• 1:56
  throwback. Reference isn't very full
• 1:58
  connect. Yeah, I'm still like this.
• 2:01
  I'm like, I don't know, but I feel like I've got to be like a
• 2:03
  woman in athleisia. I'm like kind of diamante.
• 2:07
  Holding a a vodka martini, yeah. I'm basically what's the chops
• 2:10
  in? Postcards on the edge.
• 2:12
  Yeah, I'm, yeah. I'm her.
• 2:13
  Debbie Reynolds. I'm Debbie Reynolds.
• 2:15
  Yeah. I mean, it was coming.
• 2:16
  It's like death hasn't become me.
• 2:18
  Debbie Reynolds has become me. You tell that to Debbie
• 2:23
  Reynolds. What have you been up to,
• 2:27
  Crystal? Nothing that exciting, although
• 2:32
  just, you know, dispatches from the life of reality TV fame.
• 2:36
  Yesterday I went for a little STI test.
• 2:40
  Thanks. Syphilis I wasn't expecting.
• 2:42
  You to take it there, but thank you for.
• 2:43
  Sharing And I was sat in the waiting room and I hear my name
• 2:46
  called and it's like, it's a hot young gay nurse.
• 2:49
  So that's never ideal, is it? It's not really who you want to
• 2:52
  see. What do you want to see like
• 2:55
  some? You want to see an old lady
• 2:57
  who's seen it all? Yeah.
• 2:58
  Who's, like, bored of gay people?
• 3:01
  Is she judging you or? No, no, no, exactly.
• 3:03
  She just couldn't care less because she's seen so many.
• 3:06
  Gay men. OK yeah.
• 3:08
  So hot hot nurse calls you A. Hot nurse.
• 3:11
  Yeah. And so he's like, well, let's
• 3:13
  have a look. And I pull my pants down and
• 3:16
  he's approaching with the swab. And then he says, oh, by the
• 3:18
  way, were you on Drag Race? It's not OK, is it?
• 3:25
  Do you? Do you pause as you're going in
• 3:27
  with the swab or do you continue to do it as?
• 3:29
  The actually it was quite funny because then my Dick actually
• 3:31
  retreated inside me. Oh, I played that game with you
• 3:38
  before where it hides away when I've got the swab out and you've
• 3:41
  got to get it back out again. Having you, it's like, I don't
• 3:44
  know why I'm still like miming the swab technique.
• 3:47
  Oh, it's good. It's helping me relive the
• 3:49
  moment. Have you got your results yet?
• 3:50
  I feel like. No.
• 3:53
  OK, well maybe maybe you could give us an update.
• 3:55
  You know how you know how you sometimes edit in your voice?
• 3:58
  Just with a little, you know, Oh, post note, so maybe here.
• 4:03
  Hey everyone, it's future Crystal here.
• 4:06
  The test results have come in and big news, I'm pregnant.
• 4:13
  Anyway, I'll, I'll have to say, don't go on reality TVTV folks,
• 4:17
  because I'm glad you. Said that because I thought you
• 4:19
  were going to say don't go to an STD clinic.
• 4:22
  I was like not sure that's a message we should be Co signing
• 4:25
  on the podcast. Well, this took a tangent,
• 4:28
  didn't it? Yeah, anyway, moving on, why are
• 4:31
  we here? Oh, just before we get into why
• 4:33
  we're here, we of course have a gate tree on where you can get a
• 4:36
  bonus episode every month. And you also get a 3A free swab
• 4:41
  I've heard as well. Thanks.
• 4:43
  Syphilis. Do you want it anally or orally?
• 4:50
  Our latest episode was on Vamp Grace Jones, Vampire Stripper,
• 4:53
  Low, low, low budget, 80s horror.
• 4:56
  What's not to love? And if you can't subscribe to
• 5:00
  the Gatron, you could leave us a comment on Apple Podcast, a
• 5:03
  review, a rating on Spotify, or you could send us a message with
• 5:07
  some suggestions or. You could post a voice note, you
• 5:10
  could draw a picture. You could get creative with
• 5:13
  this. You could launch a rival podcast
• 5:15
  and show us how to make a better version of what we're doing.
• 5:19
  Really, there's all sorts of things you could be doing.
• 5:22
  I'd like that if someone just really tried to destroy us, but
• 5:24
  like in a in a long game way. I mean, jokes on them, we're
• 5:28
  destroying ourselves, yes? But we have.
• 5:32
  Has anyone got that much time to be like I'm going to, That's why
• 5:35
  I'm going to take down this? Podcast.
• 5:37
  That's why I think I'd like it. Yeah.
• 5:38
  Oh. It'd be great classic Cam.
• 5:41
  Yeah, yeah, that's a classic Cam.
• 5:45
  Oh, it sounds like ATV station that only plays.
• 5:49
  I don't know Grace Jones movies. Yeah, I mean, I'm in.
• 5:54
  But we did get some. We have had some DMS with some
• 5:56
  suggestions. Oh.
• 5:57
  DM OH. Yeah, we've had DMS.
• 5:59
  Claudio, why you? Needed to go to the clinic.
• 6:01
  Is this the? Is this the origin story?
• 6:03
  Yeah, the DMS are overflowing, Claudio says.
• 6:07
  Hey, loves eek, loving the podcast.
• 6:09
  Thank you. I wonder.
• 6:10
  Sorry, I'm not sure. Is that an excitable eek, do you
• 6:14
  think? Well, eek, I'm scared that's how
• 6:16
  I would interpret it. I was getting excited, but you
• 6:19
  know what? Let's not put words in Claudia's
• 6:21
  mouth. Oh.
• 6:22
  Sorry, Claudia. Wondering if John Waters female
• 6:25
  trouble would ever be reviewed? Big love from Amsterdam.
• 6:28
  I mean, I think John Waters is on the horizon.
• 6:31
  There's a few that we need to talk about, aren't there?
• 6:33
  I think we're big fans of Serial Mum as well.
• 6:36
  So I think I would love to get my teeth into a John Waters
• 6:38
  movie. Yeah, yeah, I feel like Serial
• 6:41
  Mum is more in our Canon than Female Trouble, but I'm open to,
• 6:45
  I'm open to all of them. Oh, thank you Claudio for the
• 6:49
  message. Yeah.
• 6:49
  Thank you. Yeah.
• 6:52
  I love messages. We've also had a message from
• 6:57
  Lorkin. Hey Divas, I've recently
• 6:59
  discovered your podcast and just wanted to say how great it is.
• 7:01
  Great fun and great insight too. I've been binge listening and
• 7:04
  thought I'd throw you guys a few suggestions to add to the mix.
• 7:07
  Top of my wish list being These Old Broads which is a 2001 TV
• 7:11
  movie with Joan Collins, Debbie Reynolds, Shirley MacLaine and
• 7:13
  Elizabeth Taylor. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've.
• 7:17
  On the podcast before I think or it's.
• 7:20
  Yeah, I, I saw this a long, long time ago and I, I feel like this
• 7:24
  because who doesn't love ATV movie?
• 7:27
  I feel like we need to explore the realms of TV movie a little
• 7:31
  bit more. Yeah, Yeah.
• 7:32
  I mean, I want to see that movie.
• 7:34
  Yeah. Whether or not we cover it.
• 7:35
  Thank you. Working.
• 7:35
  That's great. Working has also suggested.
• 7:38
  Other than that, I think you should cover Romeo Michelle's
• 7:40
  High School Reunion, Spice World Scream, 3 Notes on a scandal.
• 7:45
  I think that's the second request for notes on a scandal
• 7:47
  We've had and Serial Mom. Great.
• 7:49
  OK. So we're ticking some boxes I
• 7:51
  like. I like how they skipped some of
• 7:53
  the genres there. Yeah.
• 7:55
  I think the importance, yeah, it's good to kind of find.
• 7:58
  Oh God, I. Nearly vomited.
• 8:01
  So oh. My God, disgusting.
• 8:06
  Not again. I'm not going to give you
• 8:08
  anything else to say with that, so you can keep that like.
• 8:11
  I'm keeping it for sure. That was me vomiting because
• 8:16
  they were disgusting choices. You're gross.
• 8:19
  You're gross looking. You cannot like, call someone
• 8:25
  else gross after you just nearly vomited out of nowhere.
• 8:31
  Never change, never change. It's going to be a hard month
• 8:34
  without you. 5 pumpkin. 5 pumpkin.
• 8:39
  I don't think we actually told people you're only going away
• 8:41
  for a month, right? And the lovely the lovely Sue
• 8:44
  Gives a Fuck is going to be filling in so.
• 8:47
  Yeah, I've heard. I've heard she likes to fill in
• 8:49
  sometimes. Oh oh.
• 8:52
  There's quite a crack to fill. Yeah, that's why you go for the
• 8:55
  jumbo swabs, isn't it? Yeah.
• 8:58
  We're going to need a bigger swab do.
• 9:04
  You remember when this podcast used to be slightly academic,
• 9:07
  and I feel like now it just goes down the drain of we need some,
• 9:11
  we need some other guest house soon.
• 9:13
  Do I need we need to bring child back?
• 9:15
  Yeah, we need some like weight to this, yeah.
• 9:18
  Well, before we go any further baby, what makes a camp classic?
• 9:23
  Right now. Right now.
• 9:24
  Well, a camp classic needs to be something that unlocks queer
• 9:27
  joy. In the words of Megan Fox.
• 9:30
  You give me such a wedding. I know she doesn't speak like
• 9:33
  that, but that's how I'm feeling right now.
• 9:35
  Yeah. We want squelchy.
• 9:36
  Squelchy Uzi. Juicy queer joy.
• 9:40
  The film needs to have an ongoing legacy, something that
• 9:42
  makes you want to come back for more and that feeds into queer
• 9:45
  pop culture. It needs to be so stupid.
• 9:48
  It's genius. If it makes sense, it's probably
• 9:50
  not camp. And ultimately we are looking
• 9:54
  for flaccid energy. A flop rejected by the
• 9:58
  mainstream and resurrected by the queers.
• 10:02
  Thank you, baby. I I felt like I was really
• 10:04
  taking that one seriously. Yeah, I felt, I felt the the
• 10:07
  pathos. And today we are covering 1985's
• 10:13
  red Sonya. And it's a bit of a red Sonya
• 10:18
  fest this episode, isn't it? Crystal it.
• 10:20
  Is indeed, it is. Indeed.
• 10:22
  We're today we're talking about the 1985 version, but the
• 10:26
  franchise has been rebooted and a new version is out now on
• 10:30
  streaming. And baby, you already know.
• 10:33
  But I was able to bag an exclusive interview with the
• 10:37
  director of the new movie, MJ Bassett.
• 10:40
  How? The fuck did she manage to do
• 10:42
  that? I.
• 10:43
  Just think that the blag is real, but yeah.
• 10:47
  If we talk some good game, we this this can be a thing that we
• 10:50
  start doing. I think this could be our new
• 10:52
  thing. We're like proper pundits.
• 10:54
  Sure, Jan. I got sent like a Screener, you
• 10:58
  know, I feel like and and I did the zoom and she was there.
• 11:03
  She had like the official background.
• 11:05
  So how was she? Lovely, lovely.
• 11:08
  And yeah, if you want to hear about the new version of Red
• 11:11
  Sonya, that will be at the end of the episode.
• 11:13
  And yet that movie's out now. But we thought it would be a fun
• 11:15
  tie in to cover the 85 version, which I think neither of us had
• 11:20
  seen. No, not at all.
• 11:22
  Yeah, and it's a, it's a wild ride.
• 11:24
  It's a. Yeah, insert Aretha Franklin.
• 11:31
  OK, great, great gowns, beautiful gowns.
• 11:36
  Oh it this movie is so beautiful gowns.
• 11:41
  This movie is very beautiful gowns.
• 11:43
  Let's get into the box office reviews context.
• 11:46
  So Rhett Sonia, of course, is is starring Bridget Nielsen.
• 11:50
  Oh my God, Jackie, Bridget Nielsen's first time on the
• 11:53
  podcast. I believe it.
• 11:54
  Is welcome, Bridget. Yeah, this was her first movie
• 11:57
  role. I've got some Bridget Nielsen
• 11:59
  trivia for you very quickly. She's 6 feet tall.
• 12:02
  She speaks Danish, English, German, Italian and a bit of
• 12:06
  French. You think you're very clever,
• 12:07
  don't you? OK, Yeah.
• 12:09
  We obviously know and love her from this sound bite.
• 12:12
  Yeah, Jackie. Yeah, Jackie, Jackie.
• 12:16
  It had never occurred to me until today that that's because
• 12:20
  Jackie's still on with her mother-in-law.
• 12:22
  Yeah. I know exactly.
• 12:23
  Also that is like the golden era of reality TV, like being able
• 12:27
  to get Bridget Nielsen and then it's like, let's get the
• 12:30
  mother-in-law from hell in. Yeah, but that's what I love
• 12:33
  about the wicked world of reality TV.
• 12:35
  There's no way Sylvester Stallone is going on like a Big
• 12:38
  Brother. We'll just get all of his family
• 12:40
  to go on it. Also, it hadn't occurred that
• 12:47
  there's that meme of her that's everywhere too.
• 12:48
  She's a meme queen. She was on flavour flave and
• 12:50
  she's laughing at someone doing a lie detector test.
• 12:53
  You've definitely seen a clip of her laughing and you didn't
• 12:55
  realize it was her. Oh.
• 12:56
  My God. Well, I watched an interview
• 12:58
  today with her with Joan Rivers on.
• 13:00
  I watched that too. Oh my God, I love and normally
• 13:07
  defend Joan Rivers to the death but fuck me she was feeling
• 13:12
  petty as hell in that. She just is.
• 13:15
  Like she calls her a cunt, doesn't she?
• 13:17
  Yeah, accuses her of being a drug addict.
• 13:21
  She makes fun of her husband because it's her 4th or 5th
• 13:25
  husband. Oh God she's so caddy.
• 13:29
  But I. Doesn't doesn't it just start
• 13:31
  with like Bridget Neeson going? You know, I'm so glad to see
• 13:34
  you. You're like an amazing woman.
• 13:36
  You know, I'm glad to be here And you know, obviously we've
• 13:39
  had like some difficulties in the past and you know, I was
• 13:43
  angry with you because you did you know, the last time I saw
• 13:45
  you, you were quite horrible about me.
• 13:46
  But I'm here to give you a flowers and then whoa, that's
• 13:49
  enough to send Joan Rivers on a hell rant.
• 13:53
  I know you're a wonderful woman. I know you're forgiving.
• 13:55
  I know I'm a piece of shit. I know you're fabulous.
• 13:58
  I know you're warm. I know your 4 marriages are just
• 14:00
  silly mistakes. I know your drug problem doesn't
• 14:02
  count. I know all that.
• 14:04
  I know you've got a new husband who is in the audience and he's
• 14:07
  half your age. I like.
• 14:09
  But it does just feel a bit like she's Bridget's being a bit of a
• 14:12
  bad sport and like if she just played along, it all would have
• 14:15
  stayed light and fun. But Bridget was not having it.
• 14:19
  She was on the defensive. And yeah, she storms off twice.
• 14:22
  Yeah. Yeah, it was.
• 14:24
  One of the times she takes her husband with her, she goes
• 14:27
  under. The audience picks him up.
• 14:29
  He's very small, isn't he? Well.
• 14:30
  He's like 5-2 or something and she's 6 foot tall, wearing heels
• 14:34
  and she just kind of drags out this little man.
• 14:36
  They're still married, by the way.
• 14:38
  Oh, I'm very happy for them. Yeah, it's great.
• 14:40
  Yeah, screw you, Joan Rivers, because you're dead.
• 14:43
  Who wins? But I I was watching it.
• 14:47
  I was like, I'm really enjoying this.
• 14:48
  I'm not sure how this is going to help our research for the
• 14:51
  film that we're about to discuss, but I will never mind.
• 14:54
  Doesn't matter. The other thing I wanted to say
• 14:56
  was that obviously she was in some of her films.
• 14:59
  I mean, she's done a lot of reality TV, She's done a lot of
• 15:02
  bad TV movies. She became quite.
• 15:04
  Like, did you look through her IMDb film credits?
• 15:08
  Yeah, some of those films. Look so good.
• 15:12
  Like the artwork alone like Galaxy or Galaxy it's called AKA
• 15:19
  last terminal. I was like that one, I want to
• 15:23
  watch what was another one. She's too tall, which looks
• 15:28
  spectacular. A little 90s comedy.
• 15:31
  Is that is that for people with that fetish of like a giant lady
• 15:34
  stepping on them? I mean she is the the boss of.
• 15:37
  She is, yeah. She she probably created that
• 15:41
  fetish. Yeah, I was like, I want to go
• 15:42
  down a deep dive and watch these terrible films just so you can
• 15:46
  just tell. I watched a clip of her in
• 15:48
  Beverly Hills Cop 2 and she plays a dual thief villain with
• 15:54
  a gun in a white power suit, so very happy to see that.
• 15:58
  And what, how many years after read some, you know, would that
• 16:02
  have been? Would that have been like 92 or
• 16:03
  something? 91 do you reckon?
• 16:05
  I don't know. I just wonder if her acting has.
• 16:09
  Has improved. Since her first film role.
• 16:12
  I'd say probably not, but I haven't.
• 16:15
  I can't actually know. I don't actually know if I've
• 16:17
  seen her in anything else. She's still, like, quite heavily
• 16:20
  accented, isn't she? I wonder if she can fake it or
• 16:23
  if she always has to play like a Scandinavian person.
• 16:26
  Yeah, the other the other movie I saw that she did was called
• 16:29
  Domino, and it's a 1988 Italian erotic drama.
• 16:34
  And this is the synopsis. Obscene phone calls provoke a
• 16:38
  platinum blonde making a video documentary about Billie
• 16:41
  Holiday. OK.
• 16:46
  I'm captivated. I am I, I, I don't know.
• 16:51
  Why is she? Why is she making a, a movie
• 16:53
  about Billie Holiday? I mean, I don't know.
• 16:55
  And what do the obscene phone calls provoke her to do?
• 16:59
  Well, again, I think we might need to watch this.
• 17:01
  I'm not sure. Is there a spin off to the the
• 17:04
  gate Trion? Because it doesn't.
• 17:05
  Yeah, we need, we need something lower than the gate Trion to put
• 17:08
  it on. Gosh.
• 17:09
  OK, And then let's get into the box office.
• 17:11
  Some reviews of this movie. So this movie was a critical and
• 17:14
  commercial failure. It took $7,000,000 under a
• 17:18
  budget of $18 million, and it's got 21% on Rotten Tomatoes.
• 17:26
  It was nominated for three Razzies, including worst actress
• 17:29
  and worst supporting actress, and it won for worst new star.
• 17:35
  Yeah less, but I just found a positive review on letterboxed.
• 17:40
  This person says OK wait this was so fun.
• 17:42
  Red headed sword fighting lady, extended water dragon fight
• 17:45
  scene, Silly Wizard, crazed witch queen, cute little Prince
• 17:49
  and clumsy servant, and the craziest mullet you ever did
• 17:52
  see. What more could you possibly
• 17:53
  want? And that's kind of how I feel
• 17:55
  about it, too. Yeah, I mean, I will say feel
• 17:56
  like that's punching things up just a little bit.
• 17:59
  Like that sounds like a kind of a kooky happy go lucky movie.
• 18:02
  Do you know what I read? I might remember the thing I was
• 18:06
  interested in with this was I watched like a 4K restoring A
• 18:11
  restored version of this movie. And the side note was they'd
• 18:15
  taken 150 hours to refine this footage.
• 18:19
  And really, And I'm like, wow, of all, of all the films that
• 18:23
  could be restored, this, this was the the one you chose.
• 18:26
  Also 150 hours? What's that like 3 work weeks
• 18:30
  for one person? Actually.
• 18:33
  One person worked for three. Weeks.
• 18:35
  They, they tricked me into thinking 150.
• 18:38
  I was like, because obviously I was like, whoa, 3 digit
• 18:40
  numbered, what the hell? But no, you're right.
• 18:42
  It's like, yeah, well, you can tell, can't you?
• 18:46
  3 weeks. It I did, I got to say though, I
• 18:49
  did rewatch parts of it on YouTube today and it looks much
• 18:53
  worse. So I would recommend the 4K
• 18:57
  version if you are going to watch this movie.
• 19:01
  Let's get into the plot. Don't worry, I'm not going deep.
• 19:04
  So we've got Sonia. She's a red mulleted woman and
• 19:08
  she's next to a burning building.
• 19:09
  A spirit appears to her and gives her back story.
• 19:13
  This like instantly hooked me. Yeah.
• 19:17
  Because I was like, this is this is how you do it.
• 19:20
  We talk about films being, you know, too long too, you know,
• 19:24
  stretched out. I'm like within like a minute
• 19:28
  and a half. We have got we've we've done a
• 19:31
  whole film's worth of plot, haven't we?
• 19:33
  And I'm just like, this is the kind of snappy shit that I want
• 19:35
  from a from a SEC. She's not sexy from a wispy
• 19:38
  little witch creature. Thing.
• 19:41
  Yeah, like a floating, disembodied lady voice with a
• 19:44
  sword. Here for it, yeah.
• 19:47
  And we learn quite a lot, don't we?
• 19:49
  We. Do we Do we learn that Sonia was
• 19:51
  approached by Queen Gedrin sexually lesbian?
• 19:56
  I love that straight from like evil lesbo queen.
• 20:00
  Evil Lesbo Queen. She came on to her.
• 20:02
  Sonia was disgusted. Yeah, read Sonia is giving no
• 20:08
  homo here. She's so grossed out that she
• 20:14
  slashes Gedrin's face and scars her scars her badly, which then
• 20:20
  prompts Gedrin to kill her entire family and have her gang
• 20:24
  raped, which is a bit of a bummer.
• 20:26
  A bit of a bummer, but yeah. But yeah.
• 20:30
  Yeah, but the spirit is there to give her the strength to get
• 20:34
  vengeance. What an opening scene.
• 20:35
  It really, it really sets the tone that you just never really
• 20:39
  know what this movie's gonna do. It's got, it's got weirdness all
• 20:43
  over it. And I mean, that's always a
• 20:45
  treat, isn't it? It keeps you from getting bored.
• 20:47
  Yeah. And it, although it isn't like
• 20:49
  kind of very action paced, it feels like, oh, we're about to
• 20:53
  watch something. Yeah, it really captivated me.
• 20:56
  And I was really excited by that opening sequence, definitely.
• 21:00
  Sonia then trains under a swordmaster called the
• 21:02
  Grandmaster, and she mistrusts nearly all other men because
• 21:06
  obviously. I hate men, yeah.
• 21:09
  I mean all of that was great, wasn't it just the grandmaster
• 21:13
  being like, men aren't evil, all everything isn't swordplay,
• 21:17
  hatred of men could have been your downfall.
• 21:21
  It's just like. It's like the movie I'm.
• 21:24
  We'll get into this later, maybe, But the movie really is
• 21:26
  confused about what it's trying to say about, I guess, sexual
• 21:30
  violence and rape. Yeah.
• 21:32
  I don't think this movie is qualified to be making any
• 21:35
  statements on on sexual violence against women.
• 21:38
  And yes, it does. And yet it's gonna try anyway.
• 21:41
  Yeah, the grandmaster says she needs to work on hating men.
• 21:44
  He's also a perv, sorry. Oh yeah, he is a perv.
• 21:47
  Because he's then he's then basically is like, oh, if I was
• 21:50
  30 years younger. It's like, oh fucking hell.
• 21:53
  But also, it does, it does set the tone as well that she is
• 21:57
  this highly desirable woman, isn't she in the film?
• 22:01
  Yeah, well, she doesn't. I don't think she meets a single
• 22:03
  man in this movie who doesn't want to fuck her.
• 22:05
  Yeah. I hate men.
• 22:08
  Again, problematic. Yeah, not great.
• 22:11
  Not great. Then we go to a nearby temple
• 22:15
  and we meet Varna, Sonia's sister.
• 22:17
  Great, great wig. Great hair, great hair.
• 22:20
  It's kind of Grace Jones in Vamp.
• 22:23
  Yes, yeah, she's, she's got like a pale blue contact on as well,
• 22:26
  just kind of. Flat and a flat, very straight
• 22:29
  red Bob. Yeah, it's sort of giving me an
• 22:32
  early days Gaga where she was making like the headpieces out
• 22:36
  of bits of cardboard and spraying them silver.
• 22:38
  Do you know what I mean? It was like, Oh yeah, Gaga, give
• 22:40
  me some. But Varna is in an order of
• 22:45
  priestesses who are preparing to banish the Talisman, A mystical
• 22:50
  light powered relic that created the world.
• 22:53
  I found their ceremony very Conti.
• 22:56
  Oh, it's so good, it's so good. They're all in white, they've
• 23:00
  all got swords. There's a big green glowing ball
• 23:03
  they're doing chanting and they're preparing to send it
• 23:07
  into the darkness. Because the Talisman can be used
• 23:10
  and touched only by women. Men vanish if they touch it and
• 23:14
  it has become too powerful to control.
• 23:17
  But this is when Gedrin's army attacks and this is our first
• 23:22
  big fight scene and all of the priestesses get fucking killed.
• 23:26
  And interesting to use the word fucking because it sounds like
• 23:28
  they're having an orgasm as they get.
• 23:30
  They're all like. It's very like.
• 23:36
  Oh, yeah, oh, oh, yes. So and then and then and then it
• 23:42
  turns into screams. It's really weird.
• 23:44
  Yeah. And then?
• 23:45
  When they they're pushed down a hole and I'm like, is there a
• 23:49
  dark room below? They landed on some like beds
• 23:52
  and then they're now getting. They're just down there.
• 23:54
  Are they getting finger bangs to death?
• 23:56
  Still looking for a film with that.
• 23:57
  But yeah, they're literally like moaning going.
• 23:59
  Oh oh. I just is any excuse I just let
• 24:04
  me just have one more because I know I can't carry it but it
• 24:07
  doesn't want. Me like, Oh yeah.
• 24:13
  Oh. OK.
• 24:14
  Yeah, it's, it's out of me now. I'm sorry.
• 24:16
  You're done. I'm sorry.
• 24:18
  That was women dying and you're laughing.
• 24:20
  No, I felt that pain. I was, I'm an actor.
• 24:22
  I was reenacting it because we don't have the clearance to play
• 24:27
  long clips in these podcasts, so it's important to reenact the
• 24:30
  scenes. But yeah, they fall into like a
• 24:33
  dark room essentially. Don't they die a dark room of
• 24:36
  death, which I think we've all been in before, haven't we Swab?
• 24:40
  Thanks, Syphilis. So yeah, Varna watches Gedrin
• 24:43
  steal the Talisman, throw the surviving priestesses into the
• 24:47
  vault that contained it, and then she escapes but is mortally
• 24:52
  wounded. And she's discovered by
• 24:54
  Khaledor, the Lord of Hercania, who is Arnold Schwarzenegger and
• 24:59
  who is definitely not Conan the Barbarian.
• 25:02
  Oh, is is that like a purposeful thing that he isn't Conan the
• 25:07
  Barbarian or? So this is a guess a good time
• 25:09
  to get into this. This is basically the
• 25:11
  unauthorized third movie in the Conan franchise.
• 25:14
  I. Didn't and I thought it was
• 25:17
  authorized. I fell for the trick.
• 25:19
  Yeah, the producer didn't want to pay the rights to have the
• 25:23
  Conan name, so he just swapped out Conan for Calador.
• 25:27
  Oh my God. And am I right in saying as well
• 25:30
  that Arnold Schwarzenegger was tricked into doing this role as
• 25:34
  well? Yeah, Explain that to us.
• 25:37
  Yes. So he was in like a multi
• 25:39
  picture deal with Dino De Laurentiis, who is the producer
• 25:44
  of this movie, Big prolific kind of B movie producer.
• 25:51
  And he said, Arnie, will you do a cameo in my Red Sonja movie?
• 25:57
  And Arnie said yes and thought he was coming in for a week and
• 25:59
  ended up being four. And then he found out he was
• 26:01
  getting Co starred billing and was on the poster and.
• 26:05
  Because I read as well that they had extra cameras that were just
• 26:08
  sort of filming stuff, so they had loads more footage of him
• 26:12
  than than he thought he filmed. It's really, really, really
• 26:18
  funny. It's like, imagine living in a
• 26:21
  time when Arnold Schwarzenegger was famous enough that you like,
• 26:24
  if you just tricked him into being in your movie, you'd have
• 26:26
  like a chance of success. It's just so confusing.
• 26:31
  It's so confusing because he's another terrible actor.
• 26:34
  Like Bridget is not doing a good job here.
• 26:37
  Neither is he. We've got 2 incredibly
• 26:41
  untalented actors. It is.
• 26:43
  It is like, I mean, I'm like actually guy for a word to try
• 26:48
  and explain what it's like to see them on screen together.
• 26:52
  Because, you know, we've all seen Arnold Schwarzenegger
• 26:54
  films. Maybe we've not watched Bridget
• 26:56
  Nielsen in films before. She's less of a kind of a figure
• 26:59
  for that. But it's what Arnold
• 27:01
  Schwarzenegger has become synonymous for.
• 27:02
  And to the point of like in Terminator, Batman Forever, it's
• 27:07
  what we expect from here. And he's kind of built his
• 27:10
  that's, that's just what he is, right?
• 27:12
  But normally there's probably a talented actor to for him to
• 27:16
  bounce off of. So when you have the pair of
• 27:19
  them leading, either, you know, a key part of the storyline,
• 27:24
  emotion, anger, anguish. It is it is quite a spectacular
• 27:30
  thing to to kind of witnesses who's the most it's.
• 27:33
  Giving it's giving porn parody again.
• 27:36
  Yeah. I mean, absolutely.
• 27:37
  There's a bit where it was like I think when the sister died and
• 27:41
  I wrote in my notes, Oh my God, this is an SNL sketch now,
• 27:46
  because it's just, there's not a chance in hell this is like,
• 27:49
  this is literally Kristen Wiig pretending to be like a sexy
• 27:53
  Danish. And then already just being that
• 27:56
  already there, being like, your sister is dead.
• 28:03
  But yeah, so he was. They weren't allowed to call him
• 28:05
  Conan, even though they were basically calling him Conan.
• 28:08
  Red Sonia is from the Conan universe, so people, they were
• 28:11
  trading on that. And yeah, he's dressed like
• 28:14
  Conan. He is Conan.
• 28:15
  He's just called Calador. That's so stupid.
• 28:18
  I love it though. Yeah, yeah.
• 28:20
  So Conan has found Sonia. He brings her to Varna.
• 28:24
  Varna's dying before she does. She tells Sonia to find the
• 28:27
  Talisman and to send it Into Darkness before it ravages the
• 28:30
  world with storms and earthquakes.
• 28:34
  Conan Calador offers to accompany Sonia, who rejects the
• 28:38
  offer because she hates men. She.
• 28:41
  Hates them. Well, no, she hates.
• 28:43
  Men. Yeah, let's say how she I hate
• 28:45
  men is more the kind of tone of her delivery.
• 28:49
  I don't need any man's help. I don't need any man.
• 28:54
  That's that's pretty good. There we go.
• 28:57
  So we can yada yada yada. And there's various adventures
• 29:02
  on the way to finding Queen Gedrin, including lots of
• 29:06
  fights, more rape threats, and Sonia killing lots of men.
• 29:11
  And there's some fun beheadings. Yeah.
• 29:13
  There you go. Yeah, if you watch it on
• 29:15
  YouTube, you don't see any beheadings, I'll just warn you.
• 29:17
  So another reason to watch the 4K remaster.
• 29:20
  There's a lot of heads spinning into the air.
• 29:22
  Yeah, which is very satisfying. I will give it that, absolutely.
• 29:26
  She at least kills everyone who threatens to rape her.
• 29:29
  I don't believe in the glorification of murder.
• 29:32
  I do believe in the empowerment of women.
• 29:35
  So should we talk about the violence?
• 29:37
  Should we talk about? Sure.
• 29:38
  Yeah. Because, I mean, this is
• 29:40
  something I liked about the movie was I liked how physically
• 29:44
  capable she was in the role. Yes.
• 29:48
  Like there's a there's a lot of sword fights and they aren't we.
• 29:53
  If you listen to our previous episode, we on Charlie's Angels,
• 29:56
  we spoke about how as women in action films, their roles sort
• 30:01
  of flip between, you know, one minute they're these kick ass
• 30:05
  fighters and then the next they're kind of these like
• 30:07
  desperate single women are just fawning over men.
• 30:12
  You don't get that in this. And I don't know if that's maybe
• 30:15
  due to her limitations as an actress, but but like, the fight
• 30:18
  scenes are really juicy, aren't they?
• 30:21
  Yeah, they are. She's, she brings a lot of
• 30:22
  physicality to the role and apparently she was cast 8 weeks
• 30:26
  before the filming started, so she didn't have a lot of time to
• 30:29
  learn sword fighting or anything like that.
• 30:32
  And she does a pretty good job, I'd say.
• 30:33
  It looks physical, it looks demanding.
• 30:36
  It looks like she's really throwing herself in.
• 30:38
  You know, I kind of buy all the fight scenes and.
• 30:40
  She also is fighting mainly men, Yeah.
• 30:43
  And which again, I think is a trope we always sort of discuss,
• 30:46
  like Batman Forever, we discussed, oh, God forbid that
• 30:49
  Poison Ivy fights a man. You know, it's, it's like it,
• 30:53
  you know, that's basically the sole reason Alicia Silverstone's
• 30:56
  in that movie. But it's just really nice to
• 30:59
  kind of see someone who was meant to be an incredible
• 31:02
  fighter taking on men and armies.
• 31:04
  I mean, the only time I really didn't like it was when there
• 31:08
  was that like the guy with the fat belly that she was going to
• 31:11
  slice open and then she beat and killed him.
• 31:15
  But then all of his like army and it was like she didn't get a
• 31:19
  chance to fight them. And that's when the old Conan,
• 31:22
  Oh my God, it's not Conan. Arnold Schwarzenegger comes in
• 31:25
  and he does that work. Yeah, he kind of saves her.
• 31:29
  Yeah. And it's just, I was a bit like,
• 31:31
  we don't really need to see that there, but.
• 31:34
  No, it'd be nice. I can see why the plot needed
• 31:37
  him to save her at some point. It would have been nice if the
• 31:41
  first time she was like, fuck off, I don't need you, and she
• 31:43
  just killed all of them herself. Yeah, totally.
• 31:45
  It would have been good, yeah. Absolutely.
• 31:47
  But in saying that though, there's still, it's still quite
• 31:50
  an interesting representation of a woman in the 80s playing an
• 31:53
  action role, I think. And like, aside from like how
• 31:56
  incredible she looks, like the outfit is hot, like she looks
• 32:01
  gorgeous, she doesn't play up to her sexuality at all in the
• 32:05
  movie. No, you'd never get like a
• 32:08
  lingering shot on a on her butt. She's not in the shower at some
• 32:13
  point. It's never she's never really
• 32:15
  sexualized by the camera and. Yeah, that's really true.
• 32:18
  I mean, how can you be with the mullet like that?
• 32:21
  It's a spectacular mullet. It is a severe mullet up in
• 32:27
  here. I think I was watching this and
• 32:31
  thinking, I think that might be a new camp clue.
• 32:32
  If there's a prominent mullet in the movie, you might be watching
• 32:36
  a camp movie. I mean, she's got inches on that
• 32:38
  mullet. Yeah, it's like down to her butt
• 32:41
  now. Is that a practical thing?
• 32:43
  Because I'm thinking if I'm I'm just trying to get in the head
• 32:47
  of the character a little bit now.
• 32:48
  So if I'm red Sonia and I'm getting my haircut, is it that I
• 32:54
  just need, you know, I need it like, you know, business at the
• 32:57
  front, party at the back kind of vibe.
• 32:59
  So, you know, day-to-day, if I'm going to be fighting and stuff,
• 33:01
  I don't want my hair getting in my face like, so let's keep it
• 33:04
  like really short at the front. But then maybe just to kind of
• 33:07
  give me my glamorous fantasy, I go for the long inches at the
• 33:10
  back. Is that the reasoning, do we
• 33:12
  think? Interesting.
• 33:13
  Sure. Yeah, I buy it.
• 33:15
  I buy it. It's funny that they went for
• 33:17
  mullet because I don't think the character is like known for it.
• 33:21
  So it's just, I guess just a real sign of the the times.
• 33:24
  It's just like, what is a cool haircut for her to have in 1985?
• 33:28
  And they were like this mullet. There you go.
• 33:31
  And yeah. And back to her sexualization as
• 33:33
  a character. I also really appreciated that
• 33:35
  there wasn't any kind of language with her being like,
• 33:38
  oh, maybe we can come to an arrangement kind of thing.
• 33:42
  And then she fights. It's from the get go, like, I'm
• 33:45
  going to kill you. I don't trust men.
• 33:48
  She was never, she was never playing on her sexuality as like
• 33:52
  one of the tools in her arsenal. Which I don't think either of us
• 33:56
  can relate to but go off stairs. Thanks, Syphilis.
• 33:59
  Yeah, totally, totally. It's all that's also quite funny
• 34:02
  when you think about the source material, which she's often held
• 34:06
  up as like the poster child of the male gaze.
• 34:08
  Like if you look at her depiction in the comics, she's
• 34:11
  chainmail bikini. She is like the OG girl who wore
• 34:14
  the impractical outfit to be a fighter.
• 34:18
  It was just tits, big red hair, lots of ass, like a basically a
• 34:22
  thong chainmail bikini. And so it's it's kind of
• 34:26
  interesting that they didn't go down that route at all with
• 34:28
  this. And especially as they cast
• 34:30
  Bridget Nielsen from being a model as well, and you think
• 34:34
  that would be one of the reasons.
• 34:35
  But maybe it was just a lack of ability to give anything a
• 34:40
  camera. Maybe they tried to make her
• 34:42
  sexier in that way, and it was just like, oh, Nope, you're not
• 34:44
  getting that baby. It's giving very like, early Gal
• 34:48
  Gadot. I can't say her name.
• 34:50
  Yeah. You're so right.
• 34:52
  And enough champagne to fill the Nile.
• 34:55
  And enough champagne to fill the Nile.
• 34:58
  It's very bad, isn't it? Carl L No.
• 35:02
  Carl L No. What do we think of the other
• 35:04
  characters? What do we think of the other
• 35:06
  characters in this movie? I was going to kind of avoid
• 35:10
  talking about them because they annoyed me so much.
• 35:15
  I mean, we can do a quick, I mean, there's like a bratty kid
• 35:19
  Prince. Yeah.
• 35:21
  Who thinks he's the shit, basically.
• 35:24
  He's the Comic Relief. He's the wisecracking kid that
• 35:28
  every 80s movie had to have. He's also terrible.
• 35:32
  He's he's the worst part of the movie for me.
• 35:34
  I mean, he's good at like, martial arts.
• 35:37
  Martial arts, yeah, that he's doing.
• 35:38
  They've obviously hired him for that.
• 35:39
  And I think something that was quite like refreshing for me to
• 35:42
  see in an 80s movie was that a POC child was hired for the role
• 35:47
  of like, you know, a far off land kind of thing rather than
• 35:50
  like the Drew Barrymore of it all.
• 35:53
  And then kind of. Right.
• 35:54
  Or like, yeah. Getting probably called
• 35:56
  crankies. Yeah, just.
• 35:58
  I was like, OK, there was 1 scene in particular that I kind
• 36:02
  of, and I feel like this was another theme that was coming
• 36:04
  through the movie. It feels like the ghost of
• 36:08
  heteronormativity is keep creeping up on Red Somya.
• 36:11
  Do you know what I mean? Because at the start of the
• 36:13
  movie, I mean she's very no homo as we discussed, but she's also
• 36:18
  no male. She's you know, she's our
• 36:19
  asexual diva. You know, she's getting on with
• 36:22
  her life. That doesn't need to be part of
• 36:24
  her thing. But then, you know, obviously
• 36:27
  Conan the Barbarian is like slowly trying to fuck her and
• 36:32
  then everyone else wants to fuck her.
• 36:34
  And then she slowly sort of starts to get feelings for
• 36:37
  Conan. This this KID, they sort of
• 36:39
  tried to introduce this idea, this like maternal thing between
• 36:43
  them. I just wasn't, yeah, here for
• 36:45
  her as well. But I mean, that turns out very
• 36:48
  quickly when he's holding the sword and she comes behind him
• 36:53
  and she's like, you're not holding it properly.
• 36:55
  You need to be gentle. And it's literally, I'm allowed
• 36:58
  to say it because the kids, it's the 80's, the kids a grown man
• 37:01
  now he's holding the sword in like an erect penis area and
• 37:06
  she's coming from behind and she's like gripping it.
• 37:09
  And I was like, how is this? How has this made the car?
• 37:13
  Because you could imagine this if this was an adult, it being
• 37:16
  like a. A sexy and I'm not sexualized.
• 37:19
  It's pottery. Because he's literally being
• 37:22
  this like wannabe toxic man but then he's like swinging around
• 37:25
  his sword which obviously has phallic connotations.
• 37:28
  I was disturbed by the paedophilic nature of this
• 37:32
  scene, which is a not a camp. Thing.
• 37:35
  Thank you for highlighting that. I know it was a long winded way
• 37:40
  around but I had to get there. And it's another example of this
• 37:49
  movie just being quite weird in lots of ways.
• 37:51
  And I don't mean paedophilia weird.
• 37:53
  Just like now we've got a zany child emperor martial artist kid
• 37:59
  and his sidekick, and they're gonna also be in this movie, I
• 38:03
  guess. We've then got Gedrin's gay
• 38:06
  wizard. Oh.
• 38:07
  Yeah, I forgot about that one. So he.
• 38:10
  So we cut to Gedrin's castle and we.
• 38:13
  I'm sorry, like the realization has just hit me again.
• 38:15
  Explain it all, let me relive it so.
• 38:18
  We've just cut, we cut to Gedrin's fortress and they get
• 38:23
  alerted that someone's approaching the fortress.
• 38:25
  And so the so Gedrin's gay wizard who is fab, he's got like
• 38:30
  6 inch nails and he's just all about potions.
• 38:34
  He uses a magic screen to show everyone in the throne room the
• 38:40
  approaching enemies, but he turns on his magic screen and
• 38:43
  there's just a sexy lady dancing topless and everyone in the room
• 38:48
  kind of goes like awkward and it's basically like they caught
• 38:53
  Gedrin watching her porn and she'd forgotten to close her
• 38:56
  tabs. It's spectacular, yeah.
• 38:58
  It is so fucking weird. It doesn't really get addressed.
• 39:02
  You're not entirely sure what you're supposed to see, but
• 39:05
  either the gay wizard was wanking over this topless lady,
• 39:08
  which he wasn't because he's so faggy.
• 39:10
  And like you said, has nails did.
• 39:12
  There's no. Way or it's the lesbian queen
• 39:16
  who we know. Who's already got her little
• 39:19
  prisoner woman? Lesbian sex slave, yeah.
• 39:22
  I mean, it's such an unnecessary touch, but I'm here for it.
• 39:26
  It was so crazy, I had to rewind it and watch.
• 39:29
  I was like, did I just? Yeah, so it's like, what in the
• 39:32
  Pink palace is this this place? Yeah, it's, I think they're
• 39:39
  probably trying to be like, look how depraved this lady is.
• 39:42
  It's This movie does not like lesbians.
• 39:45
  No, it really doesn't. And I mean, I, you know, that
• 39:47
  was something I was yearning a bit more for in this movie,
• 39:50
  especially with the the sort of the yada yada opening where
• 39:54
  rape, betrayal, it's all crammed into like such a short period of
• 39:58
  time. I wanted a bit more desperation,
• 40:00
  a bit more of her lusting for Red Sonia.
• 40:04
  Whereas I wrote down something I noticed and picked up about the
• 40:10
  film was about how her fashion decays over the duration of this
• 40:16
  movie. So the queen.
• 40:18
  Queen, Yeah, it's like we start seeing her in less finery.
• 40:21
  At one point she's wearing like a beaded gold, a gold shawl.
• 40:25
  Then it's sort of right at the end, it's giving sort of a nice
• 40:28
  top and a pair of jeans kind of vibe like a little.
• 40:30
  She's got a Christmas party. They've literally given up on
• 40:33
  her wardrobe as the scenes have progressed.
• 40:35
  And I don't know if there's more meaning to that, but that that
• 40:37
  was something that really stood out to me with this.
• 40:40
  Movie I love this queen. I mean, I'm always going to
• 40:46
  stand on evil lesbian she. Could she be more evil though?
• 40:49
  She could be more evil, she could be more lesbian, but she
• 40:51
  does have like a sexy concubine woman who she's willing to
• 40:57
  sacrifice. She does have a Kunti kind of
• 41:01
  gold face mask that kind of looks like one of those ones you
• 41:03
  get from Timu. Yes.
• 41:07
  And she wants Sonia to come to the fortress unharmed because
• 41:11
  she's not finished with her yet. I mean, this woman also is a is
• 41:16
  an. A terrible actress.
• 41:18
  Yeah. You know, You know, I was
• 41:21
  watching this and I was trying to think who I'd recast her as.
• 41:25
  Kelly Lynch from Charlie's Angels, the movie.
• 41:30
  I just, I think Kelly Lynch could have done a great job
• 41:33
  here. Yes, I think Gedrin and Kelly
• 41:35
  Lynch, like there's there's something say me about them.
• 41:39
  It's very much, it's very much like AD movie role level.
• 41:44
  But you know, I wouldn't want to Chuck it.
• 41:45
  For instance, you know, off the top of my head, a Gina Gershon
• 41:48
  would have been spectacular in this role.
• 41:52
  But this isn't a spectacular movie that deserves a Gina
• 41:55
  Gershon. This deserves a Kelly Lynch.
• 41:56
  She would have just given a little a little something else.
• 41:59
  I love, I love that Kelly Lynch is my new obsession on this
• 42:02
  podcast. You're so right and we both we
• 42:06
  already know that she can do the like wet look legging thing
• 42:09
  which Kedrin Kedrin ends up in she.
• 42:12
  Would have had more of a blowout situation though.
• 42:15
  Yeah, yeah. There's no way she would have
• 42:17
  gone for the flat like Bob thing that that she's got.
• 42:22
  The actress who plays Gedrin was supposed to play Red Sonia, but
• 42:25
  she decided she didn't want to do it because she didn't want to
• 42:27
  get typecast because she'd played the love interest in
• 42:31
  Conan. One maybe I.
• 42:33
  Think you should be grateful you've got a part, But also,
• 42:38
  that's a big swing, isn't it? I won't be playing the lead,
• 42:41
  I'll be playing the villain of the piece.
• 42:42
  It's like, what kind of hole did she have on this movie?
• 42:45
  Who is she? Well, she's the queen of
• 42:51
  everything plot wise. Some more yadda yadda Yadda's.
• 42:53
  And then the everybody makes it to Gedrin's fortress and the
• 42:57
  fortress is splitting and collapsing because the Talisman
• 42:59
  is getting out of control. Powerful.
• 43:02
  Everything's falling apart and the floors are splitting.
• 43:06
  And then we're into our final showdown.
• 43:07
  So Sonia confronts Gedrin and they fight, but Gedrin's gay
• 43:11
  wizard is making Gedrin teleport all around the room and she's
• 43:15
  and he's using like some voodoo on song.
• 43:17
  Again, you make that sound way more exciting than it is.
• 43:20
  Like doesn't she just teleports once from like the front?
• 43:23
  I think, I think she teleports 3 times, but it does look really
• 43:26
  bad every time. OK, it's like, it's like Power
• 43:30
  Rangers fights. Yes, but again, I I really enjoy
• 43:34
  how she because you know, and the gay wizard cuts red Sonia,
• 43:39
  right, So she's all of a sudden, Oh my God, I'm bleeding.
• 43:43
  It's very masters of the universe sort of section when he
• 43:48
  man's getting whipped. But I love how like the old
• 43:51
  queen like is laughing and then she just laughs and like nods
• 43:54
  over to the gay wizard, which then instantly means that red
• 43:57
  Sonia kills the gay wizard. It's like, what an asshole.
• 44:02
  Yeah, she gives up like this really pointed look.
• 44:05
  It's like, oh wow, you really gave that away.
• 44:10
  It's so good. I also, it's got the Faye
• 44:12
  Dunaways for me in the sense that someone is clearly off
• 44:14
  camera shaking the throne. I was thinking, yeah, there's
• 44:18
  some studio people shaking that throne there, and then the crack
• 44:23
  opens, doesn't it? Yeah.
• 44:25
  And so then they go into a candle covered room, Sonya's cut
• 44:29
  off the gay wizard's head, and it's Sonya versus Gedrin They're
• 44:32
  fighting. Sonya kills, stabs, gathering
• 44:36
  through the heart and sends her plummeting to her death.
• 44:39
  I mean. It was no surprise that Red
• 44:43
  Sonia, who's like 6 foot and this like fighter that we've
• 44:46
  seen like kick the shit out of everyone else in the film, like
• 44:49
  nothing about the Queen suggests that she's going to do well in a
• 44:51
  fight. That's it.
• 44:52
  Now, she does hold up surprisingly well, but it
• 44:55
  doesn't really make any sense. I guess if you live in Hercania,
• 44:58
  you just one thing you need to know is sword fighting.
• 45:01
  Yeah, yeah. It's just it's a tough land.
• 45:07
  Everybody escapes the volcano, consumes the castle.
• 45:11
  Sonia and Khaled or Kiss. Feminism solved the end all.
• 45:16
  Destroyed. In.
• 45:17
  One fell swoop. Yeah, OK.
• 45:23
  That's the plot of Red Sonia. I'm not going to lie, I thought
• 45:26
  you got to the end of it midway. I thought we would finish and
• 45:31
  just talking about bits of the film.
• 45:33
  Oh, right. Well, because it's a very
• 45:34
  repetitive plot, isn't it? Yeah, it is.
• 45:37
  It is, it is. I mean, it, it ends exactly how
• 45:40
  you think it's going to end. There's nothing.
• 45:41
  There's no big surprises. But I would say, I would just
• 45:45
  echo what I said before, is that it does stay weird.
• 45:47
  It it continues to be weird in in ways that I, I don't know, I
• 45:52
  can't really think of other movies like it.
• 45:53
  And that was just delightful because how often do you get
• 45:56
  surprised by a movie anymore? If that's true, yeah.
• 45:59
  What parts were there any parts that of it that you've also that
• 46:02
  you found camp? Because I there's there's two
• 46:04
  moments that I really enjoyed that are quite small details.
• 46:07
  And that's when Red Sonia is no, when Vanya is fleeing the first
• 46:13
  massacre in the castle and she's escaping.
• 46:17
  I really enjoyed that. She's like, is the castle based
• 46:20
  in like an outdoors adventure park because it's got the zip
• 46:23
  wire and she just sort of jumps on that.
• 46:25
  And I was like, where are we? What in the like Go Ape is going
• 46:29
  on now? So that that was one thing for
• 46:31
  me. And then I also really like it
• 46:33
  where they it's like they're in a theme park and the monster
• 46:37
  they fight is just this badly mechanical creature.
• 46:40
  And it made me think of Berlin. Oh my God, you're so right.
• 46:45
  Yeah, Monster cabinet. Oh my God, you're right.
• 46:48
  Because they're both fighting and it's literally this.
• 46:50
  The metal monster just does like 2 movements in the water doesn't
• 46:54
  it? It's just like, like on top of
• 46:58
  it fighting it and I'm like, what the fuck?
• 47:00
  But like you say that it looks so bad, but I also was like, I
• 47:04
  was thinking to myself, like, OK, but in 85, this was probably
• 47:07
  like quite an expensive thing to do.
• 47:09
  And they've built a big set piece, they've flooded it.
• 47:12
  They've got this mechanical monster.
• 47:15
  It's like this looks complicated to do, and yet the result is
• 47:18
  still really, really bad. Well.
• 47:21
  Since you were saying they conned Arnie into this movie, I
• 47:24
  was wondering, do you think he also just was like he went to
• 47:28
  like the, you know, the lock up where all the props and the
• 47:30
  costume were for Conan and was like, right, let's break in here
• 47:33
  and just nick him because like rather than like make.
• 47:37
  That make sense? Specific things it's give, you
• 47:40
  know, I wonder whether a lot of these films like how recycled a
• 47:42
  lot of those costumes are well. Because I think the costumes in
• 47:46
  this movie are spectacular. There's like except for the
• 47:50
  Queen. Yeah, except for the queen.
• 47:52
  Except for the queen, because at the end she is wearing a pair of
• 47:55
  leggings and a piece of gold Lemay wrapped around her waist.
• 47:57
  Yeah. But for the most part, like
• 48:00
  those priestesses, they look amazing.
• 48:02
  The grandmaster. That is so cool.
• 48:05
  All of the like background villains are in these like
• 48:08
  elaborate headdresses and like big armor pieces, and someone
• 48:13
  was having a very fun time like creating a world.
• 48:17
  I aesthetic I really love in the sort of 80s movies, fantasy
• 48:21
  movies is when they merge with like painted backgrounds and
• 48:25
  they're kind of they're like these fantasy backgrounds, but
• 48:28
  they're sort of quite painterly and I just think I love that
• 48:32
  it's just it looks like really gorgeous and it's not attempting
• 48:35
  to be real. It's kind of a bit like Wizard
• 48:38
  of Oz like, but the next step forward.
• 48:40
  And I always just think that looks really beautiful.
• 48:41
  So I love it whenever they do that kind of thing in these
• 48:43
  movies. Totally.
• 48:45
  It's, yeah, there's a lot of theatricality to these sets
• 48:49
  where you're like, you can't really shoot this from other
• 48:51
  angles, can you? Because it won't work.
• 48:53
  So you have to shoot it from one place.
• 48:54
  So you kind of feel like you're in a theatre watching some of
• 48:57
  the scenes, which doesn't necessarily help it feel like a
• 49:01
  real thing you're watching, but it does give it a fun effect.
• 49:05
  What do we think about this whole bloody on are they, aren't
• 49:08
  they thing with Brigitte and Arnie?
• 49:12
  Because they did fuck in the end, didn't they?
• 49:14
  But it's like this whole thing that they're fighting and yeah,
• 49:17
  I mean, what do you think about all of this?
• 49:19
  I feel like we just need to discuss it a bit.
• 49:21
  Yeah, yeah, it's a it's a real problem for me.
• 49:24
  So this whole movie is about basically about Sonia hating men
• 49:28
  and learning to love them again, but it very clumsily sets up the
• 49:34
  reason that she hates men as the fact that she was horribly
• 49:38
  raped. And then it immediately pivots
• 49:40
  away from that and basically implies that she just needs to
• 49:42
  get over it. So it's like it's the, the, the,
• 49:47
  the inciting rape in this movie is like the reason that it all
• 49:51
  kicks off, which is like already a real fucking problem.
• 49:54
  Like you should not use sexual violence against women as a
• 49:57
  motivating factor for a character.
• 50:00
  Then you also if you're going to do that then don't immediately
• 50:03
  on the next in the next scene be like get over yourself.
• 50:06
  You need to learn to love again. Like basically this movie has no
• 50:10
  business trying to make any commentary about any of it.
• 50:13
  She just doesn't have the vernacular that she thinks she
• 50:16
  possesses. I think we needed a rule that
• 50:20
  men shouldn't be allowed to depict rape in movies.
• 50:24
  I think we need a rule until they can be trusted to handle it
• 50:27
  appropriately. No men dealing with rape.
• 50:31
  Yeah. And then it's it's this whole
• 50:33
  challenge that she sets Arnie, isn't it?
• 50:36
  Which is, you know, the only man who can ever have me is someone
• 50:40
  who beats me in a fight. And he even implies so that's
• 50:43
  someone that wants to kill you. And it's like, that's an
• 50:46
  interesting concept. But then they like, they go for
• 50:49
  that fight, don't they? And it's like this thing where
• 50:51
  they're fighting. And it's like, again, the
• 50:54
  dynamics there are really off because you're like, she's
• 50:57
  fighting to not then let a man have her.
• 51:00
  And it's why is she doing that? And then the kid, the bratty
• 51:04
  little kid even comments on it like, who's she kidding?
• 51:07
  We all know she doesn't want to win, right?
• 51:10
  He says that during the first fight.
• 51:12
  And it's just like. Oh yeah, basically, the movie
• 51:19
  implies that she's frigid when actually she's been through a
• 51:23
  horrible, horrible trauma. Yeah, and I mean, maybe she is
• 51:28
  homophobic, but that was pre all of this stuff.
• 51:31
  So that's that's a different thing.
• 51:33
  That's a different problem and and we have kind of have no
• 51:36
  choice but to stand our homophobic queen.
• 51:40
  I just, yeah, there's something about, look, I don't know, maybe
• 51:43
  I'm thinking differently about homophobic people, but there's
• 51:46
  something about that moment that I'm just like, hell yeah, get
• 51:49
  her. And then yeah, at the end, I
• 51:53
  don't know. I mean, they never would have
• 51:55
  done this. But again, I think when we talk
• 51:56
  about these movies, we like to fantasize about different
• 51:59
  endings and different. I was thinking because at the
• 52:01
  end they sort of reinstate this fight idea and this time around
• 52:07
  it's he thinks he's being clever and he's like, oh, well, the
• 52:11
  only woman I'd let you know, spend time with me is a woman
• 52:14
  that can beat me in the fight. And then that's the sort of the
• 52:17
  prompt for Sonia to fight him. And this they go to do their
• 52:22
  sword fight and then they lock swords and then that's when they
• 52:25
  kiss. And that's the end of this
• 52:27
  fucking awful film. But I thought it would have been
• 52:29
  spectacular if that's when Sonia got her sword and stabbed and
• 52:34
  killed Arnold Schwarzenegger. And then there was like a flare
• 52:38
  of music and it's like Red Sonia.
• 52:41
  And then she just goes off into the distance and she still hates
• 52:44
  men. And I was like, that could have
• 52:46
  saved a huge section of this of this film for me.
• 52:50
  I think I do believe in the empowerment of women.
• 52:54
  Imagine, but I kind of. Feel like because the the the
• 52:58
  history of this film, like since this movie, there's been so many
• 53:02
  talks of people remaking it. So there was Robert Rodriguez
• 53:06
  was going to remake this with our good, good friends.
• 53:11
  Yes. Friend of the show Rose McGowan
• 53:13
  and there was like an incredible poster.
• 53:17
  Yes, for that. Like licking blood off a sword.
• 53:20
  Yeah. And then there's like another
• 53:21
  one of like all of these skulls, like piled up and she's like
• 53:24
  holding a sword in it. It was very much in the era of
• 53:28
  sort of Sin City and that aesthetic.
• 53:30
  And yeah, I mean, obviously I don't know how far down the line
• 53:33
  that version got, but it obviously must have got quite
• 53:36
  far to have had, like, studio artwork teasing it.
• 53:40
  But I feel like that's kind of, I feel like there's a world
• 53:43
  where I want like, if you're going to get like a vengeful
• 53:46
  Sonia, I want more fury. Totally, totally, totally,
• 53:51
  totally. She's just, like, completely
• 53:53
  unhinged. And yeah, you actually just see
• 53:56
  the rage. I mean, there is a catharsis in
• 53:58
  this movie for the character. There is like, she does kind of
• 54:02
  get her revenge, and that is satisfying to see.
• 54:05
  But it's also told against this lens of her learning to love
• 54:08
  again, which it just feels really inappropriate based on
• 54:14
  the trauma that she's been through.
• 54:16
  Yeah, I I watched Planet Terror recently.
• 54:19
  We were talking about it, and that's obviously Robert
• 54:22
  Rodriguez with Rose McGowan. And there's a rape scene in that
• 54:25
  as well. That's like God, you just who
• 54:27
  is? That oh, I haven't seen that
• 54:29
  film for a while, so I don't remember that.
• 54:31
  Oh. Quentin Tarantino makes a cameo
• 54:33
  and then he's like, going to try and rape Rose McGowan, and then
• 54:36
  but he's turning into a zombie and his penis is melting off.
• 54:39
  It's like, horrifying in lots of ways.
• 54:42
  But even despite it being portrayed as like a thing that a
• 54:46
  bad man does, there's still this element that you're like, the
• 54:49
  straight man is still making this and there's a chance that
• 54:51
  he's finding it all a bit titillating, which is just so
• 54:54
  gross. Anyway, at least this movie
• 54:55
  doesn't really sexualize her interestingly.
• 54:58
  It doesn't. It doesn't.
• 54:59
  And despite her looking incredible and her outfit is hot
• 55:04
  like it, I, I, it's interesting. I was like, Oh my God, I bet.
• 55:07
  And Beyoncé, Pink and Brittany, they must have taken some
• 55:12
  reference points from this, maybe Pink in particular,
• 55:15
  because I I was kind of like, I've seen this in that Pepsi
• 55:17
  commercial. You're so right.
• 55:25
  It's it's also very Xena. Yeah, exactly.
• 55:27
  And she does look hot, but there's, she doesn't have
• 55:29
  costume changes. She doesn't have, there's just
• 55:32
  not that element to it. And I liked that, even though I
• 55:35
  didn't like the bigger picture that we're talking about, I
• 55:37
  liked that she was so asexual. And I just thought that was a
• 55:42
  really interesting thing to see because like, you know, we talk
• 55:44
  about stages of films linked to when they were made.
• 55:47
  And I just think it's really nice to see a character not
• 55:51
  depend on sexuality. Totally.
• 55:53
  But yeah, I mean, almost everything about this movie is
• 55:55
  really, really, really bad. Oh yeah, totally.
• 55:58
  The acting is terrible, the story is terrible, the script is
• 56:01
  terrible. Do you know something else I've
• 56:02
  found so jarring was how silent the the the film is?
• 56:07
  And I don't know if that's just because we're so used to like
• 56:09
  big musical scores on things, but like, there's so much dead
• 56:12
  air in this film. But that's so weird because
• 56:15
  they've they had Enyo Morricone. I'm probably pronouncing that
• 56:20
  wrong. Who's like a really famous film
• 56:25
  scorer? Composer.
• 56:28
  Composer. Wow.
• 56:30
  He's a very famous composer. And so it was like a big thing.
• 56:35
  Like it's even on the poster music by you know.
• 56:39
  Do you think so they can afford the full package it's like.
• 56:42
  Yeah, maybe they this is what you're using for the opening
• 56:44
  credits. And then after that, we're going
• 56:46
  to have the. Budgets run out.
• 56:47
  And then because like, yeah, like the end scene, which is
• 56:49
  where you really want like big, like dramatic in that last
• 56:53
  fight. And there's just.
• 56:54
  It's just. Nothing.
• 56:56
  It's so weird. It's so weird, and I know I'm
• 57:00
  only thinking about this movie because we just watched it, but
• 57:02
  it did remind me a bit of Vamp in the like, low budget, just
• 57:06
  like it's trying to be something bigger than it has any capacity
• 57:10
  to be. But I think what made it much
• 57:13
  more fun and watchable for me was that it had a female lead.
• 57:16
  So at least whenever I was like whenever the movie was shit, I
• 57:19
  still had something out, someone to watch that I was interested
• 57:22
  in. Whereas we had two straight men
• 57:23
  leads in Vamp and I was like, I just don't care what happens
• 57:27
  them and I want them off the screen immediately.
• 57:29
  I never wanted her off the screen.
• 57:30
  Yeah. And in fact, I was like, oh,
• 57:32
  maybe soon she's going to be on screen with the evil lesbian
• 57:35
  witch and that'll be even better.
• 57:37
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 57:38
  So I was kind of constantly excited about like, what was
• 57:40
  going to happen, even though I knew I was watching something
• 57:43
  that was just a piece of shit. I mean, we've mentioned this
• 57:46
  before, and this is a problem for me and for you in in
• 57:50
  assessing a camp classic. If I'm getting bored, that's not
• 57:54
  a camp movie. And there were parts of this
• 57:56
  where I was like, this is boring and it's still a punchy 90
• 58:00
  minute film. Like it's not.
• 58:02
  But I not even 90 minute. Is it not?
• 58:05
  But I literally I was watching it like, oh God, when is this
• 58:08
  going to end? And that's, that's not a good
• 58:10
  sign of a of you, is it? It's not a great sign.
• 58:14
  It's like another one of those movies where if you distilled
• 58:17
  the camp moments into like a 10 minute super cut, you'd be like,
• 58:22
  wow, this looks really fun. Like actually even that 4K
• 58:24
  trailer. Yeah, I don't know if you
• 58:26
  watched the the trailer for the remaster, but it makes it look
• 58:30
  really. But that's why I know I keep on
• 58:32
  going back to the opening. And aside from those sort of how
• 58:36
  they deal with the rape in it, it's also quick and like magical
• 58:40
  and like a bit deliriously, like, we're about to, you know,
• 58:44
  kick some shit into gear. Let's go.
• 58:48
  And it just doesn't have any of that pacing in the rest of the
• 58:51
  movie. No, I felt, I still felt hopeful
• 58:55
  for the first, like probably quarter of it because I thought
• 58:58
  those priestesses with the swords were Kunti.
• 59:00
  I was like, oh, they're actually getting, things are getting
• 59:02
  really surprisingly violent and like it's staying weird and oh,
• 59:08
  what's this like giant Buddha statue and she's fighting with
• 59:11
  this weird sword master. Like it was staying weird.
• 59:14
  And then and then, yeah, it really did lose its way in the
• 59:17
  middle when she's just like on her way to the fortress and
• 59:20
  having to like deal with all of the challenges on the way.
• 59:23
  Also as well, the other thing I found very funny, and maybe in
• 59:26
  some cultures, this is just what you do.
• 59:28
  But like, I love how she just burns her sister sets her on
• 59:31
  fire at the beginning. I'm like, because that's what we
• 59:35
  do style. Yeah, you're going up in flames.
• 59:37
  Bye. My sister is dead, I don't need.
• 59:41
  Any man's help? One thing maybe we haven't
• 59:44
  really talked about is, yeah, maybe we have.
• 59:47
  But evil lesbians? Love evil lesbians.
• 59:50
  Yeah, just more of them, right? Why is why is homophobia OK when
• 59:54
  it's in the 80s? But yeah, do you know what I
• 59:58
  mean? It's just.
• 59:59
  Funny, I think. Evil lesbians have way more
• 1:00:02
  potential than what we saw in this movie and like, let's get
• 1:00:04
  really fucking evil, OK? Sure, sure, sure, sure.
• 1:00:07
  I'm like no, I agree, but like it.
• 1:00:10
  There is something funny about 80s homophobia.
• 1:00:12
  I don't know it, it tickles me, it tickles me and also it's just
• 1:00:18
  refreshing because we're so. Used to like.
• 1:00:21
  No, no, because. We're so used.
• 1:00:23
  We're so used to like queer coated male villains and like,
• 1:00:27
  it's not that often you get a just an out and out evil
• 1:00:30
  lesbian. Yeah, and we welcome it with
• 1:00:33
  open arms. We do.
• 1:00:34
  We do. But as I said, imagine someone
• 1:00:36
  like a Gina Gershon playing that.
• 1:00:37
  Aren't you gonna come here and give me a big kiss?
• 1:00:41
  God just yeah, recast this with Gina Gershon and Elizabeth I
• 1:00:45
  just. Think it's like it's the kind of
• 1:00:46
  genre of film where like as actors you can really chew up
• 1:00:50
  the scenery more with these kind of roles and they didn't.
• 1:00:53
  Know everybody felt a little bit bored.
• 1:00:57
  It's very like, yeah, here's the meal.
• 1:00:59
  You could dive straight in, but you're all on the Zen pic, so
• 1:01:02
  you're not. You can't really.
• 1:01:03
  Eat at the moment. So it's just very like a lettuce
• 1:01:07
  leaf. This is all I can manage.
• 1:01:09
  Would you recommend people watch this movie?
• 1:01:12
  No, I don't think I would. I don't.
• 1:01:17
  I didn't this. I didn't not enjoy it, but I
• 1:01:20
  don't. I mean, I can say I'm never
• 1:01:22
  going to watch this movie ever again.
• 1:01:24
  I can definitely say that. And what about you, I?
• 1:01:27
  Don't think so, but I am really happy to have seen it.
• 1:01:31
  And it also feels a little bit like a hidden, like I don't
• 1:01:35
  think anyone's seen this movie. Yeah.
• 1:01:37
  Do you know what I mean? The.
• 1:01:38
  The only thing it has done as well as like you mentioning some
• 1:01:41
  of the other films and having looked at the posters of
• 1:01:44
  Brigitte Nielsen's films, I definitely would love to scroll
• 1:01:47
  through them and just sort of see the scenes that she's in and
• 1:01:49
  just get more of a tapestry of what she's like as an actress.
• 1:01:53
  No, I don't. The posters alone are selling
• 1:01:57
  the concept to me. Well, should we rate this movie?
• 1:01:59
  I think we should, yes. OK, it's time to give it a
• 1:02:02
  rating on our patented campometer.
• 1:02:04
  We need to give it 10 Merrells. Bon Appetit for the quality and
• 1:02:10
  10 Lizas for the camp factor. OK Merrells, now I know you're
• 1:02:18
  about to give this movie 0 Merrells.
• 1:02:21
  And you would be correct, yes. But you're going to stop me,
• 1:02:24
  aren't you? No, I'm.
• 1:02:25
  Not going to let you, but I'm just going to get in there and
• 1:02:27
  you know what? I am going to give one, Meryl,
• 1:02:31
  to the costume designer because I enjoyed it, OK?
• 1:02:34
  I enjoyed the costumes and they went for something and they took
• 1:02:37
  a big swing and I think it mostly paid off.
• 1:02:39
  OK, Yeah. I'm going to recognize their
• 1:02:43
  work here on this podcast. Yeah, I no.
• 1:02:48
  Do you know what I'm going to give?
• 1:02:54
  No, I was going to say I'm going to give one point to the to just
• 1:02:57
  the opening scene, but I can't because of the rape in it.
• 1:03:01
  And it's just like it sets a murky time for the entire film
• 1:03:06
  that then it doesn't sort of. No, it's it's really bad.
• 1:03:11
  I mean, yeah, it's it's terrible. 0 Merrills.
• 1:03:13
  I'm, I'm giving it, yeah. Ground breaking.
• 1:03:16
  OK, what about Liza's? How camp is this movie?
• 1:03:20
  I mean, that's a, it's a very, I feel like this is complicated
• 1:03:23
  camp now. Yeah, it is because it is.
• 1:03:25
  The fact that Prigine Nelson cannot act makes this film very,
• 1:03:30
  very camp. Like very, very calm you've.
• 1:03:33
  Got every person in this movie unable to act.
• 1:03:36
  Every single one. There is not a single actor in
• 1:03:39
  the movie. Which is an achievement.
• 1:03:40
  I know it's a low budget Hollywood film, but that is an
• 1:03:43
  achievement. There's not just one person that
• 1:03:44
  was like, oh, do you know they were underused?
• 1:03:47
  No, everybody was used today we're.
• 1:03:49
  Going to make an English language movie with a bunch of
• 1:03:52
  people with English as their second language that are former
• 1:03:55
  models. I mean, again, that's quite camp
• 1:03:57
  in itself. That's the premise.
• 1:03:59
  That is quite camp. And you know, there are elements
• 1:04:01
  like, you know, the, the sex hole, the evil lesbian, the gay
• 1:04:06
  magician. I mean, there are.
• 1:04:08
  Gay magician. What?
• 1:04:09
  I will say the porn screensaver. Yeah, the porn.
• 1:04:11
  OK, so this is a camp film, but it's not a camp classic in my
• 1:04:14
  mind, so I'm gonna give it 5. It is camp though, in my mind.
• 1:04:19
  What about you? I'm going back to the list
• 1:04:22
  Unlocks Queer joy. Yeah, but it it was I was wet
• 1:04:25
  and then I was dry. I was wet, then I was dry.
• 1:04:27
  I was wet, then I was dry. Sounds like you need to go back
• 1:04:29
  to that clinic again. Get that swab in you again.
• 1:04:32
  Thanks. Syphilis ongoing legacy.
• 1:04:35
  I mean, we've we've had a reboot this year.
• 1:04:38
  So stupid. It's genius.
• 1:04:40
  Yeah. Underdog plot vibes.
• 1:04:42
  I mean, huge underdog plot vibes.
• 1:04:43
  I think I'm going to give it. I'm going to give it 7 lies.
• 1:04:47
  OK, OK. I'm giving it 7.
• 1:04:50
  I respect that. Yeah, I think it belongs.
• 1:04:56
  I think it deserves to be seen by queer people.
• 1:04:58
  I think it is a funny experience and I I wish it wasn't quite so
• 1:05:03
  forgotten. I also wish it was better.
• 1:05:06
  I wish it went down a little bit easier.
• 1:05:08
  But it's got a lot to redeem it, I think.
• 1:05:10
  I think for me, I think I completely agree with you.
• 1:05:12
  I think the reason it doesn't quite work for me is I just, as
• 1:05:15
  I said, I just got a bit bored with it.
• 1:05:17
  Yeah, and it just took too long. Whereas I I compare it to films
• 1:05:20
  like Key Man, Masters of the Universe and Supergirl.
• 1:05:24
  And for me they're similar in salt, but they're a bit more
• 1:05:27
  deliriously like, what the fuck is going on?
• 1:05:30
  There's more to kind of keep my mind occupied.
• 1:05:32
  And this was. That's so true.
• 1:05:33
  Whereas with this, as you said though, when it gets you wet,
• 1:05:37
  you're dripping but you just dry up very quickly.
• 1:05:40
  Yeah, yeah, no, Supergirl is a great comparison because they
• 1:05:43
  are very similar in lots of ways.
• 1:05:46
  But yeah, Supergirl just the pacing never lets up.
• 1:05:49
  It just stays relentlessly camp. Yeah.
• 1:05:52
  Yeah, but you know, I'm glad that we I'm glad we discussed
• 1:05:57
  this one. Yeah, and stay tuned in a moment
• 1:06:00
  for my interview with MJ Bassett, the director of the new
• 1:06:04
  Red Sonia. Because we are what?
• 1:06:06
  Journalists. Sure, Jan.
• 1:06:09
  Yeah. Well, I'm not, I'm not allowed
• 1:06:10
  in on the interview. But no, I'm very excited to hear
• 1:06:12
  this. Well done, Crystal.
• 1:06:14
  Who's going to be next? We need to, we need to get the
• 1:06:17
  black book out and get some more names in, don't we?
• 1:06:20
  I'm working on it baby. OK, we're working on it.
• 1:06:22
  Well, listen, whilst that, it's been a lovely chat with you
• 1:06:24
  Crystal, and I'm gonna miss you when I'm gone.
• 1:06:27
  See you on the other side. I hope the rehab takes this
• 1:06:31
  time. Yeah.
• 1:06:32
  Fingers crossed, fingers crossed.
• 1:06:34
  And we'll be back in two more weeks with another Camp Classic.
• 1:06:42
  Hi, I'm Jay. Welcome to Camp Classics.
• 1:06:44
  Thank you very much. Well, and happy to be.
• 1:06:45
  Here. Thank you for being here and
• 1:06:47
  Congrats on Red Sonia, it's fab. Oh, that's good.
• 1:06:51
  I'm glad. That is fab.
• 1:06:53
  That was that was the that was the intention.
• 1:06:54
  That was the intention. Good.
• 1:06:56
  Well, congratulations you. You made your mark.
• 1:06:58
  I want to get into something at the top, which is one thing that
• 1:07:01
  we, when we discuss camp movies on this podcast is we look for
• 1:07:06
  an element of queer joy. We say that's that something
• 1:07:09
  camp is something that unlocks queer joy.
• 1:07:11
  I'm wondering for you, what is something that unlocks queer joy
• 1:07:14
  for you when you're watching a movie or ATV show?
• 1:07:17
  Oh my goodness me, that's an what an interesting question.
• 1:07:20
  I just thought, you know, when you watch somebody with
• 1:07:21
  compassion and inclusivity, it's like it.
• 1:07:23
  I don't, I don't need much. I just need to see a little bit
• 1:07:26
  of I think it's compassion. The the moment, the moment you
• 1:07:31
  see people engaging in a real way with maybe this leather
• 1:07:35
  divert because I'm I'm woke as it comes, right.
• 1:07:37
  So it's like, I just want to see somebody see, see an an other
• 1:07:42
  person. And I mean, I mean, otherness in
• 1:07:44
  the sense of different in those in those kind of very profound
• 1:07:47
  ways and just go, it doesn't matter that you're not
• 1:07:50
  different. I want people to not care.
• 1:07:53
  That's what I really want is I don't want anything.
• 1:07:55
  I mean, not to get political really quickly.
• 1:07:57
  I don't want special treatment. I just want people not to give a
• 1:07:59
  shit. I love that.
• 1:08:00
  And if I can see that in a world where it's like, yeah, it
• 1:08:02
  doesn't matter about diversity, doesn't matter about this, it's
• 1:08:04
  fine. That's that's, that's my joy,
• 1:08:06
  clear or not, right? I mean, apropos Sonia, right?
• 1:08:11
  Well, the queer joy is the fact you have a transgender film
• 1:08:13
  maker making it. And I had a really good time.
• 1:08:15
  So that was my it was my joy. I.
• 1:08:18
  Absolutely love that it's you're what you're saying is treating
• 1:08:21
  things as so matter of fact that it's almost.
• 1:08:23
  Yeah, it's it's, yeah, as you say, inconsequential.
• 1:08:27
  And that's what I'm really looking for.
• 1:08:28
  It's like I'm looking for things where it's it doesn't really,
• 1:08:33
  you don't even want to hang a Lantern on these things.
• 1:08:35
  It's just that's your part of the world, right?
• 1:08:37
  The moment, the moment you identify things as other, then
• 1:08:40
  that becomes about separation. And I'm not really interested in
• 1:08:44
  in that. And I think what I wanted, what
• 1:08:46
  I want in the world is I don't want and again, to be we need it
• 1:08:51
  like trans awareness day, but I want trans ignoring day.
• 1:08:53
  I want a day when we're not in the.
• 1:08:54
  Headlines, yeah. I want a day when there's no
• 1:08:58
  we're not being politicized. I want a day when nobody gives a
• 1:09:00
  fuck about us. Right, but in an in an
• 1:09:03
  incredibly benign, neutral way. Yeah.
• 1:09:07
  I don't want to be politicized. So that's sort of my my queer
• 1:09:10
  joy is to be ignored. Oh, I love that.
• 1:09:13
  That's a new one for me. But actually I think it's
• 1:09:15
  incredibly relevant in 2025. Yeah.
• 1:09:18
  Thank you. The Could you tell me about some
• 1:09:21
  of the movies that that shaped you, some of the things that
• 1:09:23
  growing up that maybe sparked some queer queerness in you?
• 1:09:27
  Well. No, because The thing is I never
• 1:09:28
  really, I don't really call myself a queer filmmaker.
• 1:09:30
  That's the other thing is like I tend to make quite robust genre,
• 1:09:34
  genre stuff. And for most of my life, you
• 1:09:37
  know, you identify things where you go, OK, I like the Rocky
• 1:09:39
  Horror Show, but you know, like, OK, we'll fight, but then you
• 1:09:42
  don't be queer for that. You have to be just a human
• 1:09:44
  being with a kind of sense of rhythm.
• 1:09:46
  But in terms, if you're asking me what influenced me as a
• 1:09:48
  filmmaker, then that's one thing.
• 1:09:50
  If you're asking me what introduced me as a queer
• 1:09:51
  filmmaker, I'll say nothing because it didn't matter.
• 1:09:55
  I love that. I love it.
• 1:09:56
  Well, tell me about Tell me as a film maker then.
• 1:09:59
  Well, yeah, OK, so Blade Runner is my favorite movie, right?
• 1:10:01
  So that's there's that. But what influenced me, Alien is
• 1:10:04
  the reason I became a film maker.
• 1:10:06
  But so so you know, but I grew up on like the movies of Ray
• 1:10:08
  Harryhaus and then Jason and the Argonauts, those kinds of films,
• 1:10:11
  monster, creature features, monster movies.
• 1:10:13
  That's what I adored. You know, I'd love Star Wars and
• 1:10:17
  I'd like, well, that kind of, but but I never thought about
• 1:10:19
  who made them. And then Ridley Scott just kind
• 1:10:21
  of opened my eyes to, oh, you can do a thing.
• 1:10:24
  And then I bought a video camera, those old bulky VHS
• 1:10:27
  shoulder mounted video cameras and started making short films.
• 1:10:31
  And everyone says, oh, you want to make short films about
• 1:10:33
  animals? I said no, I want to blow shit
• 1:10:34
  up because that was it's like allowed to make animal stuff
• 1:10:40
  blow shit up and wear a dress and never knew about the dress
• 1:10:43
  stuff for years. That sounds like queer joy to
• 1:10:46
  me. That's queer joy, queer joy,
• 1:10:50
  vital fire, many decades of unhappiness.
• 1:10:52
  But yes, I got to it eventually. But it's that sense of what
• 1:10:56
  films press a button in you. And I grew up on 80s kind of
• 1:11:00
  action pictures and fantasy pictures and horror pictures,
• 1:11:02
  right? So and you can you can argue a
• 1:11:04
  lot, but the lot of horror is extremely campy.
• 1:11:07
  Absolutely. But but I, and this is this is,
• 1:11:10
  this is the wrong podcast to say this is I don't like camp very
• 1:11:14
  much. That's okay.
• 1:11:15
  I would say that I would say your your picture is is not camp
• 1:11:20
  No to its credit, but the the OG is certainly is super camp,
• 1:11:25
  super camp because I also. And, and, and it's like it's
• 1:11:29
  what identifies something as as campy.
• 1:11:32
  A lot of those, it's partly because it doesn't take itself.
• 1:11:36
  The campness is a joy and a like a winkiness.
• 1:11:38
  And it's like this notion of hey, we're all having a good
• 1:11:41
  time here, folks. But that to a certain extent
• 1:11:44
  breaks the 4th wall for me. So I don't want to step outside
• 1:11:48
  that. I want you to watch Red Sonia
• 1:11:51
  and go I but this is a believable real world with a
• 1:11:53
  believable real character. And at no point do I say to the
• 1:11:55
  audience, yeah, I know they're all dressing up and being silly
• 1:11:58
  and running around with swords. So one of my push backs when I
• 1:12:02
  was young watching the original Red Sonia was like, it's too
• 1:12:05
  campy now. Also, clearly I was denying who
• 1:12:10
  I was for decades, right? I knew I was tramped, but it's
• 1:12:13
  like I'm not leaning into that because that's too embarrassing
• 1:12:16
  and there's too many other things going on in my life
• 1:12:18
  there. So I push back against camp as a
• 1:12:21
  deliberate way of avoiding confronting who I was.
• 1:12:25
  So there's that, which is just a way deeper conversation.
• 1:12:28
  But but, and now I like I, I, I celebrate camp and I think it's
• 1:12:32
  wonderful because I'm not ashamed of myself.
• 1:12:35
  But it's still not in me as a film maker.
• 1:12:37
  That makes sense. I do have AI mean there is a
• 1:12:39
  werewolf musical, a transgender werewolf musical I want to make.
• 1:12:43
  OK, you give with one hand and take with the other, right?
• 1:12:48
  But I. Might and and that will probably
• 1:12:50
  be a little Cam. Sounds like it's going to have
• 1:12:52
  to be well, thank. You know, there's a version of
• 1:12:55
  that where you just go, we're going to take this deadly series
• 1:12:56
  there. That won't work, but there will
• 1:12:58
  be. There will be just so much joy
• 1:13:00
  in that. But yeah, so it's, it's the the
• 1:13:04
  the journey for me was not not necessarily about finding a
• 1:13:06
  queer joy in movies. It was much more about finding
• 1:13:09
  this is these push my buttons emotionally and from a kinetic
• 1:13:12
  action point of view. And I've made a lot of action TV
• 1:13:15
  and movies and I'm very good at breaking things like blowing
• 1:13:20
  shit up and crashing cars and shooting guns and having people
• 1:13:23
  fight each other and fuck each other.
• 1:13:25
  And that's sort of that's my sweet spot.
• 1:13:27
  And as I've got older, I'm getting more able and more
• 1:13:32
  comfortable with doing like, OK, let's deep reach into emotion a
• 1:13:35
  little bit more because I'm not again, not embarrassed or
• 1:13:38
  ashamed. And why, where can we find like
• 1:13:42
  with Red Sonia? Ultimately, it's about
• 1:13:45
  compassion and love. I mean, it really is at the end
• 1:13:47
  of the day. I mean, there's lots of sword
• 1:13:48
  fighting and monsters and and and violence and all those other
• 1:13:51
  things. But the movie has has nothing to
• 1:13:55
  say about women at all. It's not, it has no gender I
• 1:13:59
  gender conversation at all, very, very specifically because
• 1:14:04
  I think the moment you have the conversation, this is what I'm
• 1:14:07
  saying about otherness and normalising things.
• 1:14:10
  It's like, I don't give a shit whether Sonia's a woman or a
• 1:14:12
  man. I give a give a shit that she's
• 1:14:14
  a person, you know? And certainly versions of the
• 1:14:18
  script did exist where it was she's a woman fighting men and
• 1:14:23
  men are evil and cruel. And it's like, well, now I've
• 1:14:25
  lived a lot in the male world and I don't think all men are
• 1:14:27
  cruel at all. I think it's a bad conversation
• 1:14:29
  to have. And also I'm much more concerned
• 1:14:32
  about environmental issues, so I wanted to make she's a custodian
• 1:14:37
  of the world and her femininity and her maternity and the kind
• 1:14:41
  of the goddess element. So it's like I touched on that a
• 1:14:43
  little bit, but it's still not a controlling element of the
• 1:14:46
  movie. The controlling element of the
• 1:14:47
  movie is she is a person in the world doing a thing and her
• 1:14:52
  gender is inconsequential, and I think that's really important.
• 1:14:55
  I guess that's maybe answers this question actually, but I
• 1:14:57
  wanted to talk to you about, you know, the male gaze that's so
• 1:14:59
  present in the source material and how I didn't see that in
• 1:15:03
  this. And I think that was really
• 1:15:05
  special. And how did you want to tackle
• 1:15:07
  that? Or is it as you say, you just
• 1:15:09
  wanted to make sure it wasn't a factor at all?
• 1:15:11
  Well, it's with red Sonia the, you know, one of the defined
• 1:15:14
  certainly the the comic book versions.
• 1:15:17
  You know, she's iconic because of her look, not because of
• 1:15:20
  anything she ever does. You know, she's a sports model
• 1:15:24
  in a chainmail bikini, right? With that, that.
• 1:15:26
  And so she's so iconic. There's no way I could make the
• 1:15:29
  movie without addressing that and touching on that for myself.
• 1:15:34
  I wasn't interested in in objectifying her.
• 1:15:37
  And that was obviously that's part of the whole the fact that
• 1:15:39
  she's a woman is inconsequential.
• 1:15:41
  But you can't deny the audience. You can't deny that history.
• 1:15:45
  So the, the the answer was to lean into it and say, oh, she's
• 1:15:49
  going to wear a chainmail bikini.
• 1:15:51
  It's not going to be her choice. It's going to be because
• 1:15:54
  something is expected of her as as an object of gays from a
• 1:16:01
  crowd, right? You know, in the way in the way
• 1:16:03
  that I don't know, beach volleyball players, women were
• 1:16:07
  expected to wear bikinis, right? Well, that's not about playing
• 1:16:12
  volleyball, is it? That's nothing to do with the
• 1:16:13
  the sport. That's something to do with how
• 1:16:15
  people want to watch the sport. Now, by the way, it's up to an
• 1:16:19
  individual to choose how they are viewed in the world.
• 1:16:21
  I had no judgement on any of that at all.
• 1:16:25
  But it's a similar for me. Sonia was a similar thing.
• 1:16:27
  Is like she's presented to a crowd as a certain kind of woman
• 1:16:31
  and then she immediately demonstrates she's not that kind
• 1:16:34
  of woman. Right.
• 1:16:35
  Exactly. Yeah, it's, it's it's a fabulous
• 1:16:38
  meta conversation that's happening in the movie, which I
• 1:16:40
  really, really liked. Another element, I guess that's
• 1:16:44
  really present in the original, which is missing here in a
• 1:16:48
  positive way. You know, sexual violence is a
• 1:16:50
  real device for the character in the 80s movie.
• 1:16:54
  What was the choice there? And the choice is that I
• 1:16:57
  incredibly strongly object to using rape and sexual violence
• 1:17:00
  to women as a motivating factor to give them power.
• 1:17:04
  I think it's, I think it's horrendous.
• 1:17:06
  And it was so common, right? But the only way one woman can
• 1:17:09
  be strong is if she needs to commit violence against men.
• 1:17:12
  And I think that's awful. And, and I know that it was a
• 1:17:15
  trope and it continues to be a trope.
• 1:17:17
  And I tried to avoid it desperately.
• 1:17:19
  And I didn't think it mattered, right?
• 1:17:21
  I mean, there's still, you know, like her village is destroyed
• 1:17:23
  and she comes from a revenge, you know, like there's, there's,
• 1:17:25
  there's still certain motivating factors.
• 1:17:27
  And I don't, you know, I mean, like when you look at I Spit on
• 1:17:30
  Your Grave and those old horror movies back in, you know,
• 1:17:32
  there's always some element of violence.
• 1:17:34
  And that's to not to diminish that sexual violence against
• 1:17:36
  women is still incredibly prevalent, but I don't think it
• 1:17:38
  should be a narrative device to give them power at all.
• 1:17:44
  And so, yeah, it was a it was a total conscious choice.
• 1:17:47
  I didn't want to do it. I wasn't interested in it.
• 1:17:49
  It was a red line for me. Now it's interesting that
• 1:17:52
  Matilda Lutz, who plays Red Sonya, is in an amazing movie
• 1:17:55
  called Revenge, which sort of does deal with that.
• 1:17:59
  Yeah, it's the kind of cathartic version.
• 1:18:02
  It's a kind of cathartic, but well, ultimately it's always,
• 1:18:04
  it's always slightly cathartic because most of the movies you
• 1:18:09
  see the woman does get some kind of revenge or some is is
• 1:18:13
  empowered, right? They do become a more powerful
• 1:18:16
  person. I just think it's a terrible way
• 1:18:18
  of getting there. And there are plenty of ways of
• 1:18:21
  becoming empowered and strong without needing a man to have
• 1:18:26
  violated you. I think my this is my opinion,
• 1:18:28
  but that's I think that's the way I.
• 1:18:29
  Totally agree, and as you say, I think there are ways to do it
• 1:18:32
  that are good, but so often it was done by a male director and
• 1:18:34
  there was an element of titillation in that.
• 1:18:37
  Oh, well, that did that was that, that's a, that's a whole
• 1:18:39
  other other thing. Again, it's like, I'm not, yeah,
• 1:18:42
  I don't. I'm not going to judge anybody's
• 1:18:44
  choices artistically, but absolutely, I think it's right.
• 1:18:48
  Right to. No, I lied.
• 1:18:49
  I do judge your choice statistically.
• 1:18:51
  It's wrong. Don't do it.
• 1:18:52
  It's fine. Judgement is very welcome on
• 1:18:54
  this podcast and we talked about the sexual violence, but also
• 1:18:59
  there isn't really a romance storyline in this movie either.
• 1:19:02
  It's well, they're they're. Well, they're, it's interesting
• 1:19:05
  when I, when I took the movie over, because it had been in
• 1:19:07
  development for many, many years, there were lots of
• 1:19:09
  iterations of the script and stories.
• 1:19:11
  The studio guy who who owns the whole company was like I said,
• 1:19:17
  this is what I'm going to do with I'm going to this one.
• 1:19:18
  I'm going to do with the movie. He would like, I don't care what
• 1:19:20
  you do with the movie. Just tell me, have you got this?
• 1:19:22
  Is it going to have a love story?
• 1:19:24
  And I said, oh, yes, it's going to have a love story.
• 1:19:27
  And but it's not going to be. It's going to be about her
• 1:19:30
  loving her horse. Right.
• 1:19:33
  OK, the love story, The love story of the movie is the fact
• 1:19:37
  that she loves her horse. It's her companion and actually
• 1:19:40
  there's stuff, there's, there were things cut out of this edit
• 1:19:43
  of the film, which explains that relationship even more strongly.
• 1:19:46
  There's a scene where she has the baby horse and she raises
• 1:19:48
  it. And I, and I thought, oh, well,
• 1:19:51
  that's, that's something I can relate to because I always like
• 1:19:53
  movies where you have, I remember growing up with those
• 1:19:55
  movies where it's always about compassion towards an animal and
• 1:19:59
  the natural world. And it's much easier to relate
• 1:20:01
  to that. And I believe that's Cruise now.
• 1:20:02
  She does have a little thing going on with Prince Osin.
• 1:20:05
  She does. With play by Luca Pasquini and
• 1:20:08
  he is, he's a beautiful, handsome man and I can
• 1:20:11
  understand why she would fall for him.
• 1:20:13
  But I don't consummate it. I don't make it a thing at all.
• 1:20:17
  And maybe if we make a second movie, I'll deal with that
• 1:20:19
  because I do think she needs to own her sexuality at some point.
• 1:20:23
  And Red Sun is 100% bisexual in my view, because she just wants
• 1:20:28
  she whatever she'll want. And I think she's grown in the
• 1:20:32
  by the end of this movie, she's growing into a person who does
• 1:20:34
  understand herself and her power and what she wants from the
• 1:20:38
  world. And I definitely think there's a
• 1:20:39
  version of her where she will be more engaged with her sensuality
• 1:20:43
  and her sexuality. But it just didn't feel like it
• 1:20:46
  was part of this story for her. That makes sense.
• 1:20:49
  I mean, I was shipping Sonia and Anicia.
• 1:20:52
  Well, yes, there's there's again, there's a scene cut out
• 1:20:58
  where we definitely, definitely touch on that a little bit in
• 1:21:02
  the in the sense there's a moment where they get more
• 1:21:04
  physically intimate with each other and you just go, you
• 1:21:07
  really should just kiss now, girls.
• 1:21:08
  That's what I was yelling at the TV.
• 1:21:11
  Very true. No, you're you're as 580
• 1:21:15
  sentence was tingling correctly. Good, good.
• 1:21:18
  I'm always looking for a lesbian where I can wherever I can find
• 1:21:20
  one. They would be a very hot couple,
• 1:21:22
  by the way. Absolutely.
• 1:21:24
  But I I realized that if I opened, if I opened that
• 1:21:27
  narrative thread, I had nowhere to go with it.
• 1:21:31
  Ultimately fair. But yeah, Wallace is fantastic
• 1:21:33
  and she's got she's Wallace days.
• 1:21:35
  So stunning, So stunning. So stunning.
• 1:21:37
  Last question, why should people see this movie?
• 1:21:40
  I don't know, 'cause you've already seen Fantastic Four in
• 1:21:42
  Jurassic World and there's nothing.
• 1:21:47
  Humble Queen. But you should see the movie
• 1:21:50
  because there's almost no sword and sorcery stuff made.
• 1:21:53
  It's a really good version of a sword and sorcery movie.
• 1:21:55
  It's got loads of action in it and violence, and it's got a
• 1:21:59
  cyclops in it, for goodness sake.
• 1:22:01
  When's the last time you saw a cyclops?
• 1:22:03
  And it is a movie that ultimately has a positive
• 1:22:06
  message about compassion and love and understanding, even in
• 1:22:10
  the face of horrendous odds and a world which is cruel.
• 1:22:14
  And I think we sort of might be living through that right now.
• 1:22:19
  Yeah, I loved that theme. I loved that theme.
• 1:22:22
  And actually my true last question.
• 1:22:24
  We have a running trope on the podcast about evil women wearing
• 1:22:28
  white suits. Would you be happy for Anisia to
• 1:22:33
  be entered into the Hall of Fame of evil women wearing white?
• 1:22:36
  She absolutely should be. She should be right up on the
• 1:22:38
  throne there. Exactly.
• 1:22:40
  She is, she is. She is the whitest of white
• 1:22:42
  women, very white. It's incredible.
• 1:22:45
  She was made for it. You are you, please, with my
• 1:22:48
  blessing. Thank you so much and
• 1:22:50
  congratulations on the movie. It's it's so fab and I can't
• 1:22:53
  wait for everyone to see it. Thank you Gracel.
• 1:22:55
  Get away from her, you bitch. Blessing.
• 1:23:01
  He was in. The Amazon Primal when she was
• 1:23:03
  researching spiders right before she died, no.
• 1:23:11
  I thought you become a prostitute or a dog and it's I
• 1:23:14
  used to love doggy chow. I used.
• 1:23:17
  To love doggy chow too.