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Endometriosis to Empowerment in Birth and Movement · Fit As A Fiddle

0:00
SPEAKER_00: Everybody is the expert on their own story.
0:02
SPEAKER_00: And everybody is the expert on their body.
0:04
SPEAKER_00: And that is truly how I try to approach my work, not only as a doula, certainly, but also in the studio in a workout, right?
0:11
SPEAKER_00: So a lot of times in the studio, we're talking about anytime you're going through something like this: pregnancy, postpartum, fertility, endometriosis, PCOS, even just getting your period for the first time, hormone replacement therapy, all of it.
0:26
SPEAKER_00: It's such an amazing opportunity to learn about yourself.
0:30
SPEAKER_01: Hello, everyone.
0:31
SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Dr.
0:32
SPEAKER_01: Sneha Ghazi, a physical therapist, course creator, and mom.
0:37
SPEAKER_01: I own Sneha Physical Therapy, a private practice in New York City, and created the course Master Your Pelvic Floor to help you transform the way you think about and move your body.
0:47
SPEAKER_01: Use discount code FIT20 for a special 20% discount exclusively for my listeners at the link in all show notes.
0:55
SPEAKER_01: Each episode brings phenomenal guests in the health and wellness space who share inspiring tips and tangible advice.
1:03
SPEAKER_01: All things health and wellness starts right here.
1:07
SPEAKER_01: Hello everyone, and welcome to this week's episode on Fit as a Fiddle.
1:13
SPEAKER_01: Our guest today is Jenny Hoofnagel.
1:16
SPEAKER_01: She is amazing.
1:17
SPEAKER_01: She comes with such a great background.
1:20
SPEAKER_01: She's a pre- and poststat movement specialist.
1:23
SPEAKER_01: She's an entrepreneur and the founder of Freya Movement Studio in New York City.
1:27
SPEAKER_01: She's also a certified birth doula, which she's going to talk about.
1:31
SPEAKER_01: And most importantly, I think you're coming from an experience of having lifelong endometriosis and overcoming and managing those symptoms.
1:40
SPEAKER_01: So we are super, super excited today, Jenny, to have you speak with our guests from both a patient experience, but also someone who provides exercise, movement, and healing, wellness to people who undergo uh similar kinds of conditions and beyond.
1:56
SPEAKER_01: So thank you for being on the show with us today.
1:59
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for having me.
2:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I appreciate it.
2:02
SPEAKER_00: Um, when I was looking at your guest list and, you know, we're listening to previous episodes of your podcast, I got a little intimidated because I was like, I'm not a scientist, I'm not a doctor, I'm not an expert on anything.
2:15
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then it occurred to me that what I am an expert on is my own experience.
2:20
SPEAKER_00: And that's exactly why I'm in this line of work and why I am where I am today.
2:25
SPEAKER_00: And so I do share a little bit about my endometriosis journey when I'm talking on like social media and on my website and things like that, for the Freya movement website.
2:34
SPEAKER_00: So, but I I was like, wow, what an opportunity to kind of dive into sharing a little bit more and really just sharing the story of why I'm so passionate about helping people in the women's health space, um, advocating for them, helping them feel empowered, educated, being a resource.
2:52
SPEAKER_00: Um, it's such an isolating experience to go through, I think, any health-related difficulty or challenge, but especially in the women's health space where there's often not a lot of data or information.
3:05
SPEAKER_00: Um, so that my own journey is what has brought me to the work that I do today.
3:09
SPEAKER_00: So I thought I would talk about that.
3:11
SPEAKER_01: And I'm so happy that you are here today to speak from that perspective.
3:17
SPEAKER_01: I'm pretty sure, Jenny, that I met you before I started saying a physical therapy, which was in like 2018, 2019.
3:24
SPEAKER_01: And yes, probably I think you might be like one of the very few guests that I've had on the show who I've met after starting my physical, my parentational private practice, which is really cool.
3:36
SPEAKER_01: Um so let's dive right in, Jenny.
3:40
SPEAKER_01: I want you to share with the listeners what is your background as a uh practitioner of movement.
3:47
SPEAKER_01: Um, what does your practice look like?
3:49
SPEAKER_01: And what is your every day-to-day kind of business operations and various offerings look like too?
3:54
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, we are growing so fast at Braya Movement Studios.
3:58
SPEAKER_00: So this is an exciting moment to be talking about this.
4:00
SPEAKER_00: But um, my background, um actually, it's so kind of serendipitous that we're having this conversation specifically because I did meet you at the end of my kind of journey through my own pelvic floor dysfunction, which I was in treatment for for two years.
4:19
SPEAKER_00: Um, it was pretty significant.
4:20
SPEAKER_00: Looking back now, I think that I have a pretty good intuitive decision that it was because of the endometriosis that I have that my pelvic floor dysfunction was so great.
4:32
SPEAKER_00: Um, but at the time it was really hard to figure that out and put the pieces together, which is another piece of the picture of endometriosis in general and women's health.
4:41
SPEAKER_00: But um when we met, I had completed my pelvic floor physical therapy to the point where I was finally in a, you know, remission is what I would say at that time.
4:52
SPEAKER_00: And then coming out of two years of pelvic floor PT, I was like, what can I do?
4:57
SPEAKER_00: I miss working out, I miss moving my body.
4:59
SPEAKER_00: I grew up as a performer, an actor, a singer.
5:02
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I was just so used to being in my body, using my body in different ways, challenging my body in different ways.
5:10
SPEAKER_00: And what my PT told me at that time was, you know, start with Pilates.
5:14
SPEAKER_00: And I had dabbled in Pilates a little bit prior to my pelvic floor dysfunction.
5:19
SPEAKER_00: But when I was really scared to go back to movement because I thought, oh no, what if I get injured?
5:26
SPEAKER_00: What if this happens again?
5:27
SPEAKER_00: What if I start having the symptoms?
5:29
SPEAKER_00: Um Pilates was a really amazing place to land.
5:33
SPEAKER_00: And I learned so much about my body, about myself.
5:36
SPEAKER_00: And I decided to become a Pilates instructor.
5:41
SPEAKER_00: So in about 2017, 2016, 2017, I did my mat training, um, which led to comprehensive classical Pilates certification.
5:51
SPEAKER_00: From there, because of my background with the pelvic floor dysfunction, um I had all of this pelvic floor knowledge that I amassed over the last two years in my own healing journey.
5:59
SPEAKER_00: And I wanted to use it for good.
6:01
SPEAKER_00: And I decided to specialize in pregnancy and postpartum fitness pretty quickly because I said these are the people who really need it the most.
6:07
SPEAKER_00: We all need it.
6:08
SPEAKER_00: Let's be clear here.
6:10
SPEAKER_00: We could all use a pelvic floor um education and mind-body connection, but certainly people who really need it in real time are the pregnant and postpartum people.
6:19
SPEAKER_00: And so I started training them through that experience.
6:23
SPEAKER_00: There were some instances where I would get asked questions.
6:26
SPEAKER_00: I'm not yet a mother.
6:28
SPEAKER_00: Um, I had not at that time experienced birth in any way.
6:31
SPEAKER_00: So sometimes a client would ask a question and I would think to myself, ooh, I feel like I would know the answer to that question if I was a mom or if I was a doula.
6:39
SPEAKER_00: So um I like to say that becoming a fitness instructor, wellness practitioner is like a gateway, the every single certification you get is a gateway drug to the next, because as soon as you know what you you learn something new, you know all the things you don't know, and you're like, I have to know more, or at least that's the way my brain works.
6:59
SPEAKER_00: So um actually in 2024, I decided to finally, after training pregnant and postpartum people for eight years, I decided to become a birth doula as well.
7:08
SPEAKER_00: And given my um endometriosis journey, which did come with some potential news of possible future infertility issues and I have frozen my eggs due to that um knowledge, I wasn't sure how I would feel.
7:22
SPEAKER_00: You know, I thought, oh, maybe this will be too overwhelming.
7:25
SPEAKER_00: Maybe I'll feel uncomfortable, maybe um, maybe it'll just be scary.
7:30
SPEAKER_00: Put my um my other experiences aside, maybe it'll just be scary.
7:34
SPEAKER_00: But I told myself, I'm gonna get the education, I'm gonna challenge myself to attend one birth and experience it so that I can, and then I'll make a decision after that.
7:43
SPEAKER_00: I don't have to decide right away.
7:45
SPEAKER_00: So that's what I did.
7:46
SPEAKER_00: I did my certification and then um through Freya Movement Studio had a client who said, I would love for you to be my birth doula, which was amazing.
7:54
SPEAKER_00: So in October 2024, I supported my first birth and I just fell in love with the opportunity to support a person going through this incredibly miraculous, transformational, life-altering moment physically, mentally, and emotionally.
8:12
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so now I'm doing much more birth work um as a doula.
8:18
SPEAKER_00: And in 2025, uh March of 2025, we opened the brick and mortar space at Brea Movement Studio in Chelsea here in New York City.
8:27
SPEAKER_00: So there's a couple of things happening there.
8:30
SPEAKER_00: We have daily um group cardio strength and core workout classes, which are kind of a hybrid of all of those modalities.
8:40
SPEAKER_00: They're all pregnancy safe, postpartum safe, diastasis, and pelvic floor aware.
8:45
SPEAKER_00: They're a little higher in intensity than your typical yoga or Pilates class, though they have a lot of Pilates um background, since that's where I come from.
8:53
SPEAKER_00: I'm also a NASM personal trainer now as well.
8:56
SPEAKER_00: So we infuse the strength and cardio as well there.
8:58
SPEAKER_00: Um we do that daily.
9:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, we have a doula collective.
9:03
SPEAKER_00: So there are currently three birth doulas on our team, myself included, and three postpartum doulas as well.
9:10
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then uh we also do private training.
9:14
SPEAKER_00: So anybody who's looking for a specific time of day has specific considerations, just prefers to work out in that one-on-one um environment or wants to do a home visit because of their schedule, we might go to them.
9:27
SPEAKER_00: So my schedule day-to-day is like bonkers.
9:30
SPEAKER_00: It never looks the same.
9:32
SPEAKER_00: Um, right now, this week, I'm actually spending my mornings getting hypnobirth trained to be able to guide people through that process.
9:40
SPEAKER_00: So, like today, I was on a Zoom from eight to 12, um, and then doing a bunch of admin from home in the afternoon.
9:49
SPEAKER_00: Now I'm doing this.
9:50
SPEAKER_00: After this, my dog and I all go to the studio.
9:52
SPEAKER_00: I'll have a private client and uh to teach two classes and then another private client.
9:57
SPEAKER_00: Uh, that's an example of a day, but they all they all look like some variation of that.
10:02
SPEAKER_00: Throw in the occasional um, you know, birth prep meeting with my doula clients, which we do three meetings leading up to their birth to educate, go over their options for me to get to know them and what they're looking for in my support.
10:17
SPEAKER_00: And then um also like just doing literal hands-on comfort and coping techniques that them they and their partner can do once they go into labor.
10:26
SPEAKER_00: Um occasionally I get called and I say and they say, I'm in labor, and I get to go to the hospital and and support them and their partner there until the baby arrives.
10:35
SPEAKER_00: So you never really know what's gonna happen on any given day when I wake up, which I kind of enjoy.
10:41
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
10:42
SPEAKER_01: And I feel like so paralleled in so many ways.
10:44
SPEAKER_01: So I get that.
10:46
SPEAKER_01: Like I also have like the hybrid model of the in-office telehealth and in-home visits that I do for my patients.
10:53
SPEAKER_01: So my days every single week, every single day looks a little different.
10:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
10:58
SPEAKER_01: And um, sometimes I'm podcasting and sometimes I'm meeting with my students through my nonprofit, and sometimes I'm right just running around New York City, like literally headless chicken mode, and it's great.
11:11
SPEAKER_00: It's great.
11:12
SPEAKER_00: I really think so many of us in this space are operate that way.
11:17
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think it's really it's comforting for me.
11:21
SPEAKER_00: I think that actually the thing that I've been thinking about a lot in the last year with opening the brick and mortar is like, I was like, oh, I do have a team, but we don't even see each other necessarily.
11:31
SPEAKER_00: There are other trainers on the staff and you know, other birth providers, but we're all doing that hybrid life and everybody has other places that they're teaching or working.
11:41
SPEAKER_00: And so um it's been, you know, I'm like, oh, it's so isolating.
11:44
SPEAKER_00: But then when I connect with other business owners, I'm like, oh yes, you're living that life too.
11:49
SPEAKER_00: And and and we all support each other so well in the birth space here in New York City that it's an incredible, incredible um community to be a part of.
11:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I totally agree.
11:58
SPEAKER_01: I think, yeah, definitely the business owner sprinkled on all on top of all the things, just managing all the variations of all the hats you have to wear.
12:06
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
12:06
SPEAKER_01: Can be fun, can be a little stressful at times, but you know, it just keeps things moving.
12:10
SPEAKER_01: And I think I'm sure you wouldn't have it any other way.
12:13
SPEAKER_01: I would never sit at a desk all day long.
12:14
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, wow, to all the people who do that.
12:16
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
12:17
SPEAKER_00: I have tried it before and I was like, oh, this is not for me.
12:21
SPEAKER_00: So I do prefer to be on the go.
12:23
SPEAKER_00: I kind of enjoy the novelty of the day-to-day changes.
12:26
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I love that.
12:28
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so all I the gateway drug was the fun, cute thing that you just said that I was like, okay, so now you're also getting another certification.
12:37
SPEAKER_01: Yes, that's right.
12:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and hypnobirthing.
12:40
SPEAKER_01: I actually got a question about hypnobirthing from one of my visions this week, and I explained it in a very, like, very one-to-two-liner way.
12:47
SPEAKER_01: But since you brought it up, I'd love for your listeners to hear a little bit about hypnobirthing is.
12:53
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
12:53
SPEAKER_00: So hypnobirthing is really fascinating.
12:55
SPEAKER_00: And please know that I'm in the beginning stages of learning this process.
12:58
SPEAKER_00: So um I may not speak perfectly on it, but um, the coolest thing that I learned on the first day of my training is that we are all hypnotized at different points in our day-to-day life.
13:10
SPEAKER_00: Anytime you're daydreaming, we could consider that to be hypnotism.
13:14
SPEAKER_00: Um, anytime that you've ever like driven somewhere that you go all the time and you don't really remember like that one stoplight that you had to stop at.
13:23
SPEAKER_00: Clearly you did, but you don't remember it.
13:25
SPEAKER_00: That's a version of hypnotism.
13:27
SPEAKER_00: Um, this is applying the basic principles of hypnosis to your birth prep experience, which I think is the most important part.
13:37
SPEAKER_00: So there are, I'm getting certified through the Hypnobirth International um Mongan method, and that comes with a lot of affirmations and tracks that you listen to.
13:52
SPEAKER_00: And I think this is so important.
13:54
SPEAKER_00: I have always been talking to my clients, even when I was training people physically mostly, but prepping them for birth physically, um, always talking about visualization, breath work, being able to ground yourself, come back to yourself in between those waves that you're writing of intensity with contractions.
14:15
SPEAKER_00: We we actually bake that into the Freya movement studio classes as well.
14:19
SPEAKER_00: So in our cardio training, we call it labor training, and you're like doing something hard for two to two and a half minutes, and then you're recovering.
14:26
SPEAKER_00: And the recovery is what we say is like the real gold here because you're trying to get back to that parasympathetic nervous system state as quickly as possible.
14:34
SPEAKER_00: So that when you're in labor and you have the adrenaline spike through the surge, then you can come back.
14:39
SPEAKER_00: Now, hypnobirthing is actually saying that you never have to hit that adrenaline point potentially.
14:46
SPEAKER_00: So through these meditations, the breath work, the affirmations, and building an incredibly positive vision of your labor before you go into labor, you can carry that with you into your labor.
15:03
SPEAKER_00: You can actually go into those states while you're in labor.
15:09
SPEAKER_00: And people claim that they feel a very um small amount of pressure, intensity um surges, but they don't describe their experience as painful in many cases with hypnobirthing.
15:24
SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm sure there's incredibly varied uh stories with hypnobirthing, but I've I've actually, maybe people don't talk about it if they did it and they didn't have a good experience.
15:33
SPEAKER_00: But everybody that I've ever spoken to who has done it is like, oh my gosh, it was the best thing I ever did.
15:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm excited to have this as a tool and that's a specific protocol to offer to people who are respond who respond well to routines and practice and and procedures.
15:51
SPEAKER_00: Um it's kind of like it has a lot of overlap in sports performance, right?
15:56
SPEAKER_00: Where, you know, high-level athletes are like visualizing their perfect game.
16:00
SPEAKER_00: Or, you know, I know Michael Phelps talked a lot about visualizing that perfect swim and, you know, just even by sitting and visualizing it, it's one way of practicing it and almost manifesting it.
16:11
SPEAKER_00: Um, the final point that I'll say about it is that I find really beautiful, and I think this is true of all of life, and something that I'm even trying to incorporate more and more into my day-to-day life is the brain can really only hold one idea at a time.
16:24
SPEAKER_00: And so if our idea is, oh my gosh, my cousin told me this horrific story of her birth, and now I'm scared.
16:31
SPEAKER_00: And every time I think about birth, that's what I think about.
16:34
SPEAKER_00: Um, then that is how we, our body starts to have a response to that hormonally, physically, um, to that thought.
16:43
SPEAKER_00: And then if we can actually replace that thought with these affirmations, over time, we'll have a different chemical response in our body and biophysical response in our body to go into our labor with that.
16:57
SPEAKER_00: And that will be the vision that we have instead.
16:59
SPEAKER_00: So a little bit of like law of attraction, law of you know, manifestation ideas like that, which is really fascinating to me.
17:07
SPEAKER_01: And I know some people who are listening are like, oh my God, that's so amazing, and totally has like worked in different capacities for me.
17:15
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna explore that.
17:16
SPEAKER_01: And some people are gonna be like, that's wow for me.
17:19
SPEAKER_01: Like the weirdest thing ever.
17:20
SPEAKER_01: And affirmations, what are you saying?
17:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
17:24
SPEAKER_01: And I want those people to just come in with curiosity here because there you don't have to go into the law of attraction or go into what some people define as hogus pocus out there in the world.
17:37
SPEAKER_01: There is scientific evidence behind being able to manage your thoughts and regulate your nervous system, and then physiological outcomes and functional outcomes.
17:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
17:49
SPEAKER_01: And that's that piece is science, evidence-based across professions and across sports, like you said, and lots of different other areas and fields of science and thought.
18:00
SPEAKER_01: And so I think that if you are like rejecting of this concept, I would just bring some curiosity of maybe there's elements of it that you could think about.
18:11
SPEAKER_01: And again, I liked what you said, Jenny, where it's a tool.
18:14
SPEAKER_01: And it's for some people in that way.
18:17
SPEAKER_01: And for other people, might just kind of think of this as um just being able to take a look at what's happening to you almost from like a bird's eye view, experience what's happening from you as a almost like a separation of self and being able to then manage because when you're often in it and you're in that heightened sympathetic nervous system and you know, unregulated, so to speak, it is really hard to be the actor and the regulator at the same time.
18:49
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
18:50
SPEAKER_01: But it's much easier to have practiced this ahead of time and then be able to be like, I have done this, and so now I can do this as well.
18:58
SPEAKER_01: And so that's one way to No, I I love that so much.
19:02
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I agree with you a hundred percent.
19:04
SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be for some people and not for others, but uh to your point, you know, again, this is science, um, and there is some science.
19:11
SPEAKER_00: And um, I read a book last year, I believe it's called Mind Magic.
19:15
SPEAKER_00: Uh, we'll confirm that for the show notes.
19:17
SPEAKER_00: But um, and it is about the science of manifestation.
19:22
SPEAKER_00: And it is exactly this, which is what we do think, what the stories that we are having in our head about the world, about ourselves, about our experience is what shapes our perception of the world and ourselves and our experiences.
19:39
SPEAKER_00: And it it was a really interesting book.
19:41
SPEAKER_00: Um, it's definitely rooted in that.
19:43
SPEAKER_00: And then I'm actually personally going through biofeedback therapy right now for some nervous system regulation.
19:49
SPEAKER_00: And again, you know, going back to one of the tools that I'm looking at for long-term pain management for endometriosis, that's kind of where it was sparked from, um, that I decided to look into it.
19:59
SPEAKER_00: And it's it's so fast, that's also fascinating to me because biofeedback is breath work.
20:05
SPEAKER_00: Um, while I'm having a monitor on my finger to monitor my heart rate variability.
20:11
SPEAKER_00: Um hypnobirthing is breath work or meditation while you're having, you know, the studies that they've done or what they're talking about is your brain waves.
20:22
SPEAKER_00: So theta, beta, delta, et cetera.
20:26
SPEAKER_00: Um, and that you have different responses in your body to these different waves, um, both maybe your HRV or your brain.
20:33
SPEAKER_00: So it's like, well, these are two different approaches.
20:34
SPEAKER_00: So maybe somebody who's not so into the affirmation piece might not be a hypnobirthing person, but they might get some good preparation with something like biofeedback.
20:43
SPEAKER_00: And then even just at the most basic level, I talk all the time in my um prenatal sessions about how it's actually even just as simple as counting your breath.
20:53
SPEAKER_00: As sitting, you know, you're going through that surge of intensity.
20:58
SPEAKER_00: What if you focus on breathing and you're just literally counting one inhale, exhale, two, inhale, exhale, three, or even maybe even just a little bit better, breathing in for four counts, out for six counts, which we know when the exhalation is longer than the inhalation, you are going to trigger your parasympathetic nervous system.
21:18
SPEAKER_00: So that becomes like this response from the inside out a little bit.
21:22
SPEAKER_00: Um, but it could be that simple if you're not into like anything woo-woo, and it all kind of still falls under the same umbrella of how to cope with not just labor, but a lot of things in life, right?
21:35
SPEAKER_00: And I like the ability to be able to present to people many different options so that they can choose what does work for them, you know, and nobody feels like they don't have something to hold on to in that time.
21:50
SPEAKER_01: I love that you're vulnerability.
21:51
SPEAKER_01: Exploring different pain management options.
21:54
SPEAKER_01: How are you in your journey through overcoming your symptoms, managing your symptoms?
22:00
SPEAKER_01: Educating others.
22:01
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for asking.
22:03
SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, it is a journey, that is what I'll say.
22:05
SPEAKER_00: So I have a really unique story because my mom actually has endometriosis as well.
22:10
SPEAKER_00: I say has because now we know that it is a lifelong um condition and it never really does go away.
22:17
SPEAKER_00: And something that we didn't know when I was first experiencing symptoms 30 years ago is that we also, you know, can it affect the body holistically.
22:28
SPEAKER_00: It's not just a disease of your reproductive organs.
22:33
SPEAKER_00: Um, it can affect your nervous system, it can affect your in your whole body's um immune response and inflammation markers and and more.
22:42
SPEAKER_00: So um I got lucky because I'm gonna be really raw and honest here.
22:48
SPEAKER_00: I I had my period for the first time at nine years old, which is very young, and it was already quite painful from the start.
22:55
SPEAKER_00: Um, because my mom had endometriosis and had experienced that, she was able to kind of identify it in me at a young age, which was amazing because most people who have endometriosis, which is primarily people with uteruses, um, is an like eight to 10 year on average amount of time to get diagnosed with this condition because it can mask and present so many different ways.
23:22
SPEAKER_00: Um, and not every medical professional is educated in the signs and symptoms.
23:27
SPEAKER_00: So I got lucky in that I was able to know what I was dealing with at a young age.
23:32
SPEAKER_00: And then I had my first laparoscopy when I was graduated from undergrad.
23:37
SPEAKER_00: So I was about 22 years old.
23:39
SPEAKER_00: And I thought at that time, okay, great, this is done.
23:42
SPEAKER_00: I don't have any ometriosis anymore.
23:44
SPEAKER_00: I can, you know, wipe my hands of that and move forward in life.
23:48
SPEAKER_00: And I did not have pain for a long time.
23:51
SPEAKER_00: It was being um managed at the time by hormonal birth control, which um I was on for many years continuously.
23:57
SPEAKER_00: That did for me, and it may or may not for some people, for me, it did manage the pain or any um really signs of the symptoms.
24:06
SPEAKER_00: And then in about 2015, 2010, 2015, I started having um incredibly painful.
24:17
SPEAKER_00: It was at my pelvic floor essentially, but it was actually having like exterior symptoms as well.
24:23
SPEAKER_00: Like my skin in my private region was like burny, itchy, um, just really angry.
24:32
SPEAKER_00: And internally it was very tight.
24:34
SPEAKER_00: I didn't know that at the time, but because of that, you know, there was just not enough blood flow, not enough oxygen in this region.
24:40
SPEAKER_00: And I was practically bedbound for like eight months before I got any um help from an end diagnosis of even just like you should go to pelvic floor PT.
24:51
SPEAKER_00: That was the first step towards healing.
24:53
SPEAKER_00: Um, as I mentioned, it was a long journey through that.
24:55
SPEAKER_00: I eventually went through um this protocol that this woman, Dr.
25:01
SPEAKER_00: Shikandi, created.
25:02
SPEAKER_00: Um, she owns pelvic rehabilitative pain.
25:06
SPEAKER_00: I want to say that I hope I said that right.
25:08
SPEAKER_00: That is her company, pain management.
25:11
SPEAKER_00: Thank you, medicine.
25:12
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
25:13
SPEAKER_00: Pelvic rehabilitation medicine.
25:14
SPEAKER_00: Um, I saw her before she had that practice.
25:16
SPEAKER_00: So I saw her somewhere else that she um she was doing this amazing, uh, it's an incredible tool for anyone who is going through pelvic floor dysfunction.
25:25
SPEAKER_00: It's a series of six nerve block injections into the pelvic floor muscles guided by sonogram.
25:32
SPEAKER_00: And that again put me in remission for about eight more years.
25:38
SPEAKER_00: I was so thankful.
25:39
SPEAKER_00: I was finally out of pain.
25:40
SPEAKER_00: And then in 2022, after I had COVID for the first time, my symptoms returned.
25:48
SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't know if they're related.
25:50
SPEAKER_00: I have talked to doctors and I've read, you know, some other stories, of course, that because COVID is an inflammatory virus, it can trigger the inflammatory system in your body.
26:01
SPEAKER_00: And that might be why my symptoms returned.
26:04
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then I had my second laparoscopy in 2022, December.
26:08
SPEAKER_00: So it's been three and a half years.
26:10
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I am still experiencing pain.
26:13
SPEAKER_00: So um we don't know if it's new lesions, if it's lesions that were not able to be seen at the time.
26:21
SPEAKER_00: There's another condition called adenomyosis, which is when endometriosis is actually in the uterine muscle itself, um, in which case it's never been touched because the only way to get that out of the body is to do a hysterectomy.
26:35
SPEAKER_00: And I've not had that.
26:36
SPEAKER_00: So um, so yeah, so it's one of those things that's really frustrating because you go, oh my gosh, I've already been through so much, and how can I still be here with pain and I'm not ready for another surgery at this time, just if of my life.
26:49
SPEAKER_00: Um so that's why I've been looking for other ways to manage the symptoms.
26:56
SPEAKER_00: So the other thing that I've been going through recently is um a year ago, I started seeing an amazing doctor named Dr.
27:03
SPEAKER_00: Kahan.
27:04
SPEAKER_00: Um, she owns a company called um SheMD, and she is a hormonal specialist.
27:12
SPEAKER_00: So I think that along with the information that I learned about 10 years ago about my potential infertility, it now appears that I'm also more likely in like an early menopause range of hormone balance.
27:24
SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm curious, and no one can seem to tell me this answer, but I'm curious if this is more common with endometriosis patients or not.
27:31
SPEAKER_00: And there's not enough data out there, but um, I kind of suspect it might be.
27:37
SPEAKER_00: And um, I started HRT last year.
27:39
SPEAKER_00: So I came off of the like hormonal birth control that was managing my symptoms ongoing, and I switched to the HRT because I was having so many symptoms that were really impacting my quality of life.
27:54
SPEAKER_00: I was exhausted.
27:55
SPEAKER_00: I was like so tired no matter how much I slept, but I also couldn't sleep.
27:58
SPEAKER_00: My anxiety was through the roof.
28:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, I had forgetfulness, I could not remember words, mid-sentence.
28:05
SPEAKER_00: I was developing a body odor that, you know, things that you don't know are actually hormonal.
28:11
SPEAKER_00: I was like, why am I smelly all of a sudden?
28:13
SPEAKER_00: And apparently that's something that can happen when your hormones change.
28:16
SPEAKER_00: Um, my joints were hurting, my recovery after my workouts and teaching were really, really, really slow.
28:21
SPEAKER_00: It was taking like a full week to recover after one workout.
28:24
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, this is not right.
28:26
SPEAKER_00: So I found this hormone specialist.
28:29
SPEAKER_00: I've taken been taking HRT.
28:30
SPEAKER_00: The only challenge with HRT when you have endometriosis is once you're adding estrogen back into the picture, which I need for my energy, all of those symptoms, my brain health, my heart health, my bone health, um, you may have a recurrence of pain from the endometriosis, because endometriosis is estrogen dominant.
28:52
SPEAKER_00: So while HRT, my understanding, speaking to my uh endometriosis surgeon, Dr.
28:58
SPEAKER_00: Liu, Dr.
28:59
SPEAKER_00: Laura Liu here in New York City, um, is that, you know, HRT is still the way to go because we don't want to have all those other symptoms.
29:06
SPEAKER_00: However, if I do have a recurrence of the endometriosis symptoms, which right now are manageable in their intensity, um, but I could use a little more support, I have decided to incorporate that biofeedback and looking into some other potential options that I haven't done yet.
29:22
SPEAKER_00: But I'll just say them because I really believe in like sharing this information because I know there's so many people all over the world suffering with endometriosis.
29:30
SPEAKER_00: And the same way I want people to feel empowered in birth when I'm their doula, I want everyone to feel empowered and having important conversations with their providers about their options with endometriosis.
29:40
SPEAKER_00: So something else that we're looking at is adding um the IUD, the marina IUD for some additional localized progesterone, which may or may not help the pain be lesser.
29:51
SPEAKER_00: And then also potentially low dose naltrexone, which is new to me.
29:57
SPEAKER_00: Um, but that is something else that we're considering, which apparently, um, my understanding based on what I've read about it, maybe you know, too, Sneha is um it impacts the also the inflammatory system in your body.
30:10
SPEAKER_00: So it can reduce inflammation and then therefore have a kind of anti-pain effect, similar apparently to like an opioid, but it is not an opioid, which is why it, you know, is good for pain conditions, apparently.
30:25
SPEAKER_00: So I haven't tried it yet, but that is some, those are things that we're looking at in the future if um other other measures don't work.
30:33
SPEAKER_01: Jenny, the what I'm thinking what's coming to my mind while I'm listening to you is how I'm looking forward to um both of us revisiting this episode that's on audio like years from now at the Eagles.
30:45
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
30:46
SPEAKER_01: We have so many more answers.
30:48
SPEAKER_00: I can't wait.
30:49
SPEAKER_00: I can't wait.
30:50
SPEAKER_00: That will be a wonderful day.
30:51
SPEAKER_00: We already do.
30:52
SPEAKER_00: I mean, the fact that I I again when my symptoms came back in 2022, this is why I think I, you know, this experience has led me to directly to what I'm doing today.
31:05
SPEAKER_00: Because when I have a problem, especially, especially when it has to do with my body, I cannot stop until I have an answer.
31:13
SPEAKER_00: And that may not be the best thing in the world.
31:15
SPEAKER_00: Admittedly, that could very much be an Achilles heel of mine.
31:18
SPEAKER_00: However, um I find, and I know many other endometriosis patients do, we know a lot more about our own condition than a lot of the doctors that we see.
31:29
SPEAKER_00: And it's unfortunate, but it's also amazing because actually there is information out there.
31:35
SPEAKER_00: And when I had my first surgery in 2022, no one, 2022, no, in 20 um 2009, no one was talking about how this could come back or or would never leave your body really.
31:50
SPEAKER_00: Like, even if you don't have active endometriosis lesions, you still have endometriosis.
31:54
SPEAKER_00: So you still may have other issues systemically that are a result of that condition being something that you just have.
32:04
SPEAKER_00: And that was news to me, right?
32:05
SPEAKER_00: And then also at that time, you know, until I don't know when this started to come up, but even still today, I see things that get this wrong in the media.
32:14
SPEAKER_00: And um, I that shows me how new of a piece of information this is.
32:19
SPEAKER_00: But when I was growing up, I always always told, you know, endometriosis is the endometrial lining outside of your uterus.
32:27
SPEAKER_00: It's supposed to be inside.
32:28
SPEAKER_00: We don't know why it's outside, but it is and and it's there.
32:32
SPEAKER_00: Um, now they're actually saying, actually, we did research, it's not that tissue.
32:36
SPEAKER_00: It's not the endometriosis, the endometrium lining.
32:40
SPEAKER_00: It is a tissue that looks like the endometrium lining.
32:44
SPEAKER_00: I don't know the specific differences, but even that is like revolutionary, actually.
32:49
SPEAKER_00: And that was not something that we knew 15 years ago.
32:53
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, and I'm just excited for more research to go around in this topic because Lord knows that it's not enough.
33:02
SPEAKER_01: And I'm not, and there's so many people that suffer for years and years, and it's quite debilitating as a personal experience and my patients share with me as well.
33:13
SPEAKER_01: And it's it's just so sad that we're not putting as many resources as we possibly could into it.
33:21
SPEAKER_01: But I do really hope and I'm very hopeful that we will and there will be me too moves.
33:25
SPEAKER_01: And hopefully these kinds of conversations help spur that knowledge too.
33:29
SPEAKER_01: I think part of it is such an awareness problem, right?
33:32
SPEAKER_01: Because not so many people have historically, even like 15, 20 years ago, come out and spoken about it.
33:37
SPEAKER_00: Right.
33:38
SPEAKER_01: Um, like for example, even my own mother, like I'm pretty sure she had endo, but she had all this dysfunction, pelophore dysfunction, systemic issues in her body.
33:47
SPEAKER_01: And the only solution was hysteracy at the time.
33:50
SPEAKER_01: Right, you know, it's like a very long time ago.
33:53
SPEAKER_01: So they that's all you do.
33:54
SPEAKER_01: You don't do any therapies, you don't do any pain management.
33:57
SPEAKER_01: We see a problem.
33:58
SPEAKER_01: And I remember she even told me she was I I like vividly remember as a child, yeah, her coming back from the surgery and being like, they told me that my uterus was just like this lump of oh hard, nasty, like you know, just like obviously making her feel like something was wrong with the body and it needed to be taken out.
34:16
SPEAKER_01: And I still remember her coming and like the way she was expressing it.
34:20
SPEAKER_01: But then in her mind, she was like, it's gonna be gone.
34:23
SPEAKER_01: And she still doesn't know her diagnosis from the many years ago, you know, like 30 years, she has no idea what exactly happened and why she was on all the medications that didn't that like interfered and like caused other issues and the brain fog and all the things.
34:40
SPEAKER_00: So it is no, it's it's so heartbreaking to hear that.
34:43
SPEAKER_00: I'm so sorry she went through that.
34:45
SPEAKER_00: It's just it's we have to do better for for women, for people with uteruses.
34:49
SPEAKER_00: We we have to.
34:50
SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, my mom too, because she had endometriosis as well.
34:54
SPEAKER_00: Like, I feel I was like, I'm gonna go to pelvic floor PT.
34:57
SPEAKER_00: She was like, What's that?
34:58
SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, like there, that even that is like progress because when I was in all this pain, I did have something that I could do.
35:05
SPEAKER_00: And it took eight months to get there.
35:07
SPEAKER_00: Um, even though, you know, I am an educated patient, I know that I have endometriosis, you know, like there, but but that's why I'm so passionate about talking about it.
35:17
SPEAKER_00: And and again, I had not realizing that moving into this next phase of my life hormonally was going to also bring back this pain, was something I had never considered, thought about, understood.
35:31
SPEAKER_00: Like I literally, I so it's so funny because I keep I I keep saying, like, I know how to manage my pain and my condition as a teenager, as an as a young adult, adult, but I don't, I, this is all new to me.
35:46
SPEAKER_00: This is not even one year in of managing this condition with a whole new set of rules and guidelines and understanding what that does to my body and and how I'm going to have to kind of show up.
35:58
SPEAKER_00: It used to be, you know, okay, well, I know that on these two days I'm gonna feel really crappy.
36:03
SPEAKER_00: So maybe I can, you know, schedule some things around it, or this is where I'm really gonna need that support of, you know, Advil, whatever it was.
36:11
SPEAKER_00: Now I'm like, oh my gosh, my body's brand new.
36:14
SPEAKER_00: I don't know what I'm doing.
36:16
SPEAKER_00: And it's really um an incredible journey to still be going on 30 years later and have it look completely different.
36:24
SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm looking forward to your book a couple of years from now.
36:27
SPEAKER_01: When you're through all of this and we have so much research, I'm I think it's wonderful.
36:31
SPEAKER_01: You really don't, I know in the beginning you started off saying you're like intimidated to be on the show because you're not like a doctor or an expert.
36:37
SPEAKER_01: But like you said, you really are in so many ways an expert on your own body and your unique experience.
36:43
SPEAKER_01: And that's what you bring to the table.
36:44
SPEAKER_01: And that empathy, I think, surpasses any kind of education that you could possibly have.
36:49
SPEAKER_01: Because thank you.
36:50
SPEAKER_01: You are a self-educator and you really it's you understand how things work and you have all the certifications and all the things and the, you know, the gateway drug, like you said, with um just helping yourself understand uh movement and health and wellness in a way that you can convey to other people so that you can help them through their journey.
37:11
SPEAKER_01: So I'm really grateful to have you in my network and I'm grateful that you are so informed in this space because so many people are not enough.
37:21
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
37:21
SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm also grateful to have you in my network.
37:23
SPEAKER_00: And I'll just say, you know, one thing about that, which is the other, the next piece of this, which was my realization of you know, being the expert on my own story, is that everybody is the expert on their own story.
37:35
SPEAKER_00: And everybody is the expert on their body.
37:37
SPEAKER_00: And that is truly how I try to approach my work, not only as a doula, certainly, yes, and but also in the studio, in in a workout, right?
37:46
SPEAKER_00: So a lot of times in the studio, we're talking about, I say in all my classes, pregnancy, anytime you're going through something like this pregnancy, postpartum, fertility, endometriosis, PCOS, even just getting your period for the first time, hormone replacement therapy, all of it, it's such an amazing opportunity to learn about yourself.
38:06
SPEAKER_00: And I always say that in pregnancy postpartum, being a parent, there's a lot of voices.
38:14
SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of people who know exactly how you should do it, who did it this way and think you should too, who read this study and believe this, who think that what you're choosing to do for yourself and your baby is, you know, not the right choice.
38:25
SPEAKER_00: And I say this class is an opportunity to practice getting in touch with your intuition, listening to your gut and saying, yes.
38:35
SPEAKER_00: Yes, it is not right for me today to use the eight-pound weights.
38:38
SPEAKER_00: I'm using the five pound weights.
38:40
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I don't need to go any faster in this cardio section.
38:43
SPEAKER_00: I've gone far enough.
38:45
SPEAKER_00: Yes, in my recovery, I do want to move my hips in a circle.
38:49
SPEAKER_00: I and I want to breathe five counts in and five counts out.
38:51
SPEAKER_00: Like whatever your body tells you, your brain and your body, it's right.
38:56
SPEAKER_00: I want you to start saying yes, so that when you are a parent and you're getting all of this information from the internet and your in-laws and your best friend and your sister, you can just be like, what is my yes?
39:07
SPEAKER_00: And you know.
39:08
SPEAKER_00: And then especially in labor and birth, like I, this is a whole other podcast episode, baby.
39:15
SPEAKER_00: But like, you know, I support births and hospitals.
39:18
SPEAKER_00: Um, I love doctors, I believe doctors.
39:20
SPEAKER_00: Um, and hospitals are a system and they have processes and procedures.
39:24
SPEAKER_00: And the processes and procedures are what they are, not necessarily because of what any one patient needs.
39:30
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I am incredibly passionate about you having a voice when you can and how you can.
39:39
SPEAKER_00: And not looking to me for the answer, looking for to me for information for the data, the research, the knowledge, the maybe if you ask, and only if you ask an experience that another client had with something.
39:53
SPEAKER_00: But um, as far as I'm concerned, like you are the captain of your birthship because you know your body best.
40:02
SPEAKER_00: You know exactly what's right for you and your baby, and only you have the power to tell us what you need and what you want.
40:10
SPEAKER_01: That is true, and that is true in every scenario as a person who is experiencing something, whatever that is, whether it's pregnancy or endo or PCOS or like all the other things that you said.
40:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, Jenny, thank you so much for being here.
40:24
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for sharing such personal information about yourself because I know that you did it to help other people, and I think it just comes from such an awesome, um, selfless space.
40:35
SPEAKER_01: And so I hope that you know, whether it was the hypno-birthing conversation or the heart rate by feedback conversation or the birth doula conversation, we touched on so many things today.
40:47
SPEAKER_01: But I hope whoever's listening, it just spurs some curiosity and some something opens up for you to delve further because there's so much that you can delve further into any of these topics.
40:59
SPEAKER_01: Um Jenny, thank you.
41:01
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for your time.
41:02
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me.
41:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, of course.
41:04
SPEAKER_01: What's the best way for people to reach you and Freya Studios and the work that you guys do that I think show notes?
41:11
SPEAKER_00: So we are www.freya movement.com.
41:15
SPEAKER_00: That's f R E Y A.
41:17
SPEAKER_00: Freya is the Norse goddess of love, war, power, magic, and gold.
41:21
SPEAKER_00: So we think that she's pretty cool, and we think that you are too.
41:25
SPEAKER_00: Um, and my email personally is jenny at freya movement.com.
41:30
SPEAKER_00: Would love to have a conversation with anybody who wants to talk about any of the things we talked about today.
41:34
SPEAKER_00: I'm I I always say I'm like, don't get me talking.
41:36
SPEAKER_00: I could talk all day.
41:37
SPEAKER_00: I do love to talk about women's health and and advocacy and wellness.
41:43
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
41:44
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
41:45
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
41:46
SPEAKER_01: Thank you all for tuning in and investing in yourself and your well-being.
41:51
SPEAKER_01: If you listened to the show today and gained anything out of it, share it far and wide.
41:56
SPEAKER_01: It means a world when you rate and review the show.
42:00
SPEAKER_01: Don't forget to use your exclusive 20% discount code FIT20 when you sign up for our signature course Master Your Public Floor, linked in the show notes.
42:10
SPEAKER_01: See you again next week with an exciting new guest and topic.