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E12 Protect Your Project Margins with Natalie Hamblett · Stronger Business Together

• Granger Forson: Thanks for spending your time with us today. We're on a mission to make business owners stronger together. If this conversation helped you, please comment and follow on whatever platform you're using. About 60 % of our audience hasn't done that yet, and these small actions will help us reach more business owners just like you. Hello! So this is the Stronger Business Together podcast where business earners learn from each other as they go along. No theory, no gurus, just real journeys and overcoming real hurdles. Today I'm joined by Natalie Hamblett of Sevenview Home Improvements who runs a business just like every other owner. building something, fixing something and growing something that really matters. ⁓ Natalie, welcome! If you want to join in the conversation as a guest, or if you have a hurdle question yourself that you'd like us to tackle, then reach out at info at strongerbusinesstogether.com. Now, make this week really successful and we'll see you at the next one. Cheers! Natalie: Hello, thank you very much. It's lovely to be here. Granger Forson: Awesome! welcome. ⁓ let's start at beginning, Act 1. ⁓ in plain English, what does your business do? ⁓ Natalie: Okay, so it's 7view Home Improvements. We install high-end, high-quality windows, doors, conservatories. We even go on to do fascia board and guttering, lights and warm roofs. ⁓ ⁓ ⁓ all-aluminium ⁓ and in some areas we use timber as well. The company's been going around about three years now and I joined full-time about four months ago. So it's quite new to me. I run it, it's a family-run business and I help run it with my husband Dean. And it's going well. Granger Forson: Brilliant, that's really good. Amazing three years and we're doing stuff in the background first and now full time in the business. Yeah, love it. And what I like is your product range and the fact that you can do wood as well, because I know there are often people who would love to have double glazing wood replacement in their homes. So awesome. So tell me, who do you typically like working with and what are they dealing with? What are they wanting? Natalie: Yes. Okay, ⁓ it's quite exciting to do new things that are coming out. So the bifolds are getting thinner, more modern. Some people are having corner bifolds with which look amazing if the corner actually comes out into your garden. So you almost can make a garden room from the edge of your house. That looks really beautiful. Just streamlined products and modern products. We work great ⁓ builders that these modern products, but they also put them in traditional homes, ⁓ which make look fabulous. Sometimes out in the Cotswolds, there'll be beautiful views. where we can put balconies and the glass balustrades around the balconies and it just takes off that view it looks amazing so ⁓ we like to work with domestic and commercial ⁓ these some of these domestic homes are really beautiful to work in. Granger Forson: fantastic so it's more the sort of maybe high-end at times or is it is a good mixed of clients? Natalie: absolutely a mix of clients. So we can do just the one window if somebody wanted the window because they've put their into maybe extended it slightly and put it into a toilet. ⁓ put a small window in there and do a knock through. We can do ⁓ some on the front of house. It can be anything from that to ⁓ the end properties like I said out in the Cotswolds or wherever Stroud or Gloucestershire. right through to ⁓ flats that just getting a contract with at the moment and also front doors for housing associations that need to be replaced. So it's wise range of products and services. Granger Forson: Excellent. how did the business start? What was that original spark or idea? Natalie: Okay, so my husband has been window fitting since he was around 16 years old, got taught by his uncle. and it's just gone from there really, he's worked at different companies. ⁓ decided to go self-employed because he felt like some certain companies weren't really working as to how would like to work with their customer service. So he decided to go self-employed after being a manager at a huge branded ⁓ window company, He managed there for quite a few years and decided that self-employment was going to be better for him. He could see where there needed to be improvements in certain areas. he went self-employed ⁓ he's just grown stronger and stronger from there. But that is the background and that's what he's always done. Granger Forson: Brilliant, yes. Often we set up businesses around our key skill and knowledge and capability. So does the business look like today in terms of size and shape? Natalie: Hmm. Okay, so today at the moment we have is ⁓ main within the company. So he'll be the one that goes out to see the customers. He's excellent with customers. and he'll be doing the measuring. got a team that will do the fitting. At the moment, we also have Dean that does the occasional fitting as well. at the we are looking for an additional fitting team. So we are keeping our ears and eyes out there for another self-employed fitter. We also have a mate, which is somebody that's not qualified for the fitting but can help with the trimming, cleaning up. We have an estimator. who make sure that Dean's surveys go into a quotation and it all runs very, very smoothly. And then I am head of operations. So I ensure that the customer journey from start to finish isn't too long, especially their pricing. Cause I think that's key. You should get a price really within three to four days, absolutely maximum, even if it's a complicated price. And what I mean by that is having to bring in other trades to rely on their prices to combine with yours which can sometimes be a bit of a hurdle. If you're using good trades they can be very busy we ensure as an operations manager and the rest of the team we ensure that ⁓ this done quite quickly for the customer. Also they're responsible for sending out terms and conditions to make sure it's legally binding, safe for them, ⁓ safe for us. that done we go on to the deposit and then ordering and again as well as the estimator ⁓ make sure that that customer is constantly in touch with to make sure they know every stage ⁓ their installation. Once the installation is completed and they're happy then we would love a Google review that's our main thing to help build our company and making that everyone's working to their roles and making it as smooth as as possible. My priority is the customer journey. Granger Forson: Brilliant. Now the customer journey is such an important feature of any business and understanding that and appreciating that is a delight to hear. So fantastic. Well done. So why your customers pick you? ⁓ How you delight them? Natalie: Yeah. I think that the main thing is to make sure that we're showing them plenty of work that we've done previously. This all adds to the trust. I think that also gaining our Google reviews really adds to the trust as well people do buy from you ⁓ they know someone that's had a good job from you. I think it's human nature. If you trust the person that's had that job, you'll go with that person as well. And then when we've got literally someone from organic that has not come from anything, then it's a matter of talking to them on the phone. I think that's more important than anything. Hearing your voice. I do like to have a picture of myself on the bottom of my email so they can picture who they're speaking to. Also keeping them in the loop, understanding where they come from when they show you that they're nervous and they don't want any hard selling because I don't like that either. that, understanding that you are a trade coming into their home ⁓ hasn't always had, our industry hasn't always had the best reputation. And just like to be that little bit more hands on and more personable to that customer. Granger Forson: Nice, yes, I like that. That's a really important that communication to date, showing customers that you care is a really important thing. So tell us about ⁓ a customer success that you're really proud of. ⁓ Natalie: Yes. Yeah, not that long ago, we ⁓ had a lady that that she wanted the front door. I contacted her and even though she put her number up on my builder, ⁓ which me she was open to contact, she was really, really nervous I called. Almost. a little bit avoiding, trying to avoid the phone call saying I'll have to wait till my home and that's absolutely fine this happens I think within a few minutes I put her at ease because then started to tell me what her concerns were and it wasn't anything to do with the door it was do with the fact that she'd had trades people in her dogs are very loud and can be she was worried about that So I put her at ease that we've got three dogs with dog lovers and ⁓ will not be disappointed when Dean comes to have a chat with her. And that's how I put it, I wanted it to be more personal. I said to her, make sure that to make, your mind at ease, make sure your husband's home. And when Dean got there, I think he was there an hour and a half. He was fussing the dogs and that was it. She was sold. She said, she rang me up and she said, I know I have to have three quotes. And I said, you're more than welcome to get three quotes. I would advise that you do just to make sure we're in the margin of what you're expecting. I said but if you're happy with us and you're happy with the quotes which you've got your other two then but she didn't even want to get another two quotes. She was very happy and we had the most amazing Google review when we had finished the job. ⁓ And you could tell her dogs were everything to her. She was at home full time. That was her world. Dean was allowed inside the world. he did make feel very comfortable. that And that just goes to that maybe the most challenging of sales, because obviously we could see there was a lot of anxiety there, were the most rewarding at the end. And we got the best review. It amazing. Granger Forson: Fantastic, putting her at ease, the dogs. Fantastic. I love that. ⁓ about with the dogs as well, making people feel, ⁓ yeah, absolutely part of the journey. ⁓ being part of her journey. ⁓ you're generating revenue from it and money, you're actually changing her world and being part of that is an important part. Fantastic. I really love that. That's amazing. So. Natalie: Yeah, yeah, ⁓ That was the world, so ⁓ know, ⁓ knew that was the way in, you know? ⁓ Yeah. Yes. ⁓ Granger Forson: You've mentioned it a few times now, finding leads. What's ⁓ largest way of finding the most leads for you? ⁓ Natalie: Okay so I mean really it would be website, would be organic through keywords ⁓ Google. getting our Google reviews. We're still working on that organic coming in. So we wanna be, our vision is to be locking up the office on the nighttime and coming back in the morning and having leads there, inquiries. That's our vision. We get the occasional at the moment, ⁓ ⁓ it's building, it's building. But on the slower days, I will always ⁓ have a look around, see what people are looking for, see if we can meet their need. going the figures as a business owner to other business owners on here, as long as that's making you a profit, those lead then there's no harm in that at all because what you're doing is you may not be making so much because you're buying the leads, but you're also giving yourself exposure. every single person that you work for talks. that's the main thing and that's how I look at it and as long as we're still making profit out of it even if it's smaller than what we would have made it's worth it. Granger Forson: Yes, fantastic. Yeah, I would agree with that. You need to understand the long game as well as just maybe you reducing your profit margin a bit on buying leads. But I love the odd description of that. They're people and they'll talk to other people. And that's how your referral process then grows. Yeah, really good. Natalie: Hmm. Yeah. And also, if you were just going to do the one small window, you shouldn't look at it as, ⁓ that's just one small window. I don't think that's going to be very viable for us because that could then turn into, right, I trusted you with my one small window. Now I want my house done. Granger Forson: Yeah. Yeah. Natalie: You know, to pay for a whole house to be done is a lot of money. That takes a lot of trust and often people will you by having a small job done first. Granger Forson: Hmm interesting. Yeah, fantastic. Okay, so you know your business is growing three years in you've been there and for a few months now helping it grow focusing on that So what are what are you both aiming for in the next 12 months for your business and why? Natalie: Okay, so really what I want to do is really concrete our roles. At the moment when the business is small, you know what you've got to do, but you've all got to chip in ⁓ haven't got people concreted to that role because you've still got this role slightly empty. And the next 12 months, ⁓ I to make sure as operations manager, ⁓ I've my dedicated teams that I go to for the certain operations of the company. I do need manager me as well to ⁓ also, one operation manager operating it all is almost impossible. I do think you need a second pair of eyes as well, definitely there's in the company that could help with that. But really over the 12 months, getting in another team, because that's something we're going to need for the work that's now lined up for the next year. And then. concrete in those parts of departments of the company and making sure that everyone's very clear of their roles ⁓ that each role is smooth aligning with the other and that we're not all ⁓ of doing things double or not doing things at all. that's my... Granger Forson: Yeah. Brilliant. really good. That's some really deep thinking and some structures that you've put into your ⁓ that will ⁓ your business growth that you want to achieve. Really Love that. ⁓ So let's move to act two, the journey ⁓ of the business. ⁓ over the Natalie: Mm-hmm. Yes. Granger Forson: three years and the time that you've also been in the business. Businesses have highs and lows and we learn from those. Sometimes we do, sometimes we don't. What have been the highs and lows for you both and what have you learned from them? Natalie: Really good ⁓ would be that when the business first started we got a huge contract. I wasn't involved in the company then and as a new business owner you're not fully aware that things can run out especially when boat is sailing very smoothly ⁓ and there a huge contract that kept Sevenview very busy for at least 18 months, and ⁓ us as a company without a doubt. And then that particular company then to, once they do one contract, they have to then reset, get ready for another one come out. And we were kind of, Now where do we go? And it was, already bought things that we needed to then pay for daily. And you know, things were starting to, the pressure started to come on because that particular contractor had gone quiet for a while. and we had to then pull ourselves together and start to look for work, for contractors and we kept our heads, I'm very proud that we kept our head above water considering that it was a quiet time, of year and obviously we were so used to having this injection of money and we made quite a good profit on All can say is the likes of my wasn't the only but it definitely kept us ⁓ afloat while we our organic, which we're still building now. Then you start to see contractors coming back up because of time of year. and ⁓ that's all flowing back together ready for summer. So we are prepared ⁓ from that these of things either we gain more contractors ⁓ which I've it quite clear in certain networking groups ⁓ that I that we're interested in that because I know we don't want to be back where it was there. And ⁓ just proud of where Sevenview have ⁓ ⁓ we didn't go from a very quiet company to building up slowly. He opened and he had a massive contract to then go in quiet. So I'm very proud we managed to keep our head above water with that. Granger Forson: Brilliant. Now that's a... fantastic start for a right at very beginning to have that injection of growth and cash and ⁓ builing that. But then done you on recovering when that dried up, ⁓ putting all our eggs in basket type situation that can happen. Definitely, definitely. So what have you done So you've tried to get more organic growth. What have you done since? Because that's quite a hard decision when the money dries Natalie: you Yes. Bye. Granger Forson: It becomes tough. got to make some hard choices. ⁓ did you learn ⁓ yourselves making those hard choices and what have you done since? ⁓ Natalie: So been lucky ⁓ the respect of ⁓ haven't had to lose anyone. because that's what can happen when things go quiet. If you have to lay people off, then you have to lay people off. That's a productive move if you want to stay in business. But we were very fortunate to not have to do that. So I was constantly seeking out. I wasn't in the business straight away. But then I started to get help to get our name out there. I ⁓ to the sort of paid leads I suppose you could say which has now started to progress organic leads and Just following up every single inquiry, even if it was just someone in passing saying, so if I went to a family member and they said, oh, my cousin's looking for so and so, or I would always ring that person and say, oh, did you say? They would look, oh, yeah, did. And just following up on those leads, I was constantly on it, I still am. And I think that's what's important. You can never slow down on that. Granger Forson: Mm. Natalie: And if you start to get slow on that because other things are getting more important operate, that's when you delegate down so someone can concentrate just on that bit because that's important that constantly goes out. Granger Forson: Yes. Absolutely yes that constant lead generation is such an important task in businesses to grow. It depends on what you want for new business but growth and you need that but you also need that just to stand still because you've got all those salaries to pay and all the overheads to cover as well. So you talked about leads you talked about the recovery you did so let's try and summarize this in this question. you lost all your leads tomorrow ⁓ would you do in the next 30 days to rebuild? Natalie: Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Mm-hmm. Okay so if we lost all our leads tomorrow I would definitely go to have a look at paid leads. I would also leaflet drop. I don't think that leaflet drop is classed an old-fashioned way of doing things but ⁓ I know I still look at what comes through my door. not always sink in, but ⁓ do look. Social media, I do a constant social media. Trying, ⁓ maybe see what events are on that we can get more exposure. Looking around to customers that haven't given a Google review going back to them and saying, are you still happy with what we did four months ago? Would you mind a Google review? Because then that will get maybe that organic back up. I just think there's always something you can do. And it surprises me every building, most buildings have windows. But there are builders out there who have their own window companies and that's ⁓ I feel that you that's why it works well if we can work with those builders that's what that's what will work well so I probably also try and contact builders literally cold call and sort of say are you happy with your window company is there anything we can do so there's plenty you can do out there to get your name back out there Granger Forson: Brilliant, that's fantastic. You've given a real big list of things you would actually do, but they're all things that you have done. And that's the proof in the pudding. You find those things that really work and we keep doing them and that's what we need to do. Natalie: yes. Yes. Granger Forson: have you changed anything that you sell over time? as you've learned in the marketplace, do you bring things in? Have you changed? What's happened with your range over the last three years? ⁓ Natalie: I mean with range, we always are searching for fabricators ⁓ are going to give us a price. because a fabricator can use the profile you like, they put the profile together, but if we can get it from them at a competitive rate, we can give it to our customers at a competitive rate. that's what's important. Profile wise, ⁓ there been some change in profile just through to Dean using these ⁓ and knowing good quality and what isn't. and also when it comes to think ⁓ being a window specialist at all but looking at the jobs we've done, the warm roofs are amazing. So with conservatories, they will keep you warm in the winter ⁓ and also cool down in the summer. And I just think that it can ⁓ almost be like an extension on side of the house. There's so many people that have paid thousands a conservatory ⁓ ⁓ they find they can't use it properly because of type of roof. So I know that Dean can completely transform a room from a hot to a nice cozy where you're feeling comfortable with the climate in there, like snug, some sofas in, it's just amazing. ⁓ as a consumer, which is really what I would be, because I have no experience ⁓ ⁓ I that that is one amazing product that is well worth every penny. Granger Forson: Brilliant. what one have you sort of done, have you removed from the business or outsourced in the business that gives you energy back? Natalie: pricing is big thing. So what would find is that Dean would go and survey, then the pressure on him to price within so many days. Again he might have outsource it to other people. In between that time he'd outfitting. would go survey, then the pressure on him to price within so many days. In between that time be outfitting. maybe out surveying other jobs. ⁓ be in the office till 11 at night, ⁓ trying to price. maybe out surveying other jobs. ⁓ be in the office till 11 at night, ⁓ trying to price. So I found this operations that it was worth financially getting somebody in price ⁓ job separately. Just that is their job is it. They ⁓ can ⁓ have time to compare companies that we use. So I found this operations that it was worth financially getting somebody in price ⁓ job separately. Just that is their job is it. They ⁓ can ⁓ have time to compare companies that we use. So we different because we want the best price we want the best price for our customer because we want the best price we want the best price for our customer Also that comes into ⁓ time, delivery time and ⁓ know if one company says to us what's going to be eight weeks and another company says it be up to four, we can outweigh that, what's going to be better for that customer. So he's that opportunity to spend that time, he builds really good relationships with our suppliers and fabricators because he's got the time to do it. he builds really good relationships our suppliers and fabricators because got the time to do it. and really good relationships with our customers that is something we've outsourced and it was absolutely ⁓ every penny of outsourcing that. and really good relationships with our customers and he's very good at what he does. ⁓ was that is something we've outsourced and it was absolutely worth ⁓ penny of outsourcing that. Dean now goes to survey, literally puts the price over to our estimator and it comes back to us within 24 to 48 hours. We then authorise it as directors and then it goes out to the customer. Granger Forson: Brilliant. That's really good. That's such an important thing that we find often it's that frustrations in our current processes or where the opportunity is to outsource or simplify or change what we're doing to make sure that that's not happening. So well done. I love that. So let's move on to Act 3 now. Let's look at our hurdle that we talked about that let's discuss. So what's the hurdle that you keep coming back to at the moment? Natalie: Okay. Okay, so at the moment, as part of our estimators job is to work out how long this job is going to take. what we have to put in that is our overheads. It's very important that the company has the overheads covered as we all know as company owners then on top of that, on top of your fitting fees, your overhead fees, your suppliers you then need to make a profit. If you don't make a profit, what are we here for? So ⁓ starts happen is every fitter is different. Granger Forson: Yep. Natalie: Some are more organized than others, they're good at what they do. So you've got to weigh it out. How long is this job going to take? So Dean's a fitter. We've got other fitters and Dean might say it'll take this many days. might be slightly over. That's good thing. Or he may say it's going to take this many days ⁓ and fitter doesn't quite do it in that many days. Now there can be a number of reasons for that. It can because there's been an issue with something else that done in the house. They might be having lots of work and we had to wait for someone to finish something. It could be down to not having something on the van that should have been on there, which can be down to lack of communication in my eyes. It can be down to the weather. We can't predict that, unfortunately. Granger Forson: Yep. Yep. Natalie: So what we've got to try and do is ensure that we have put enough days in without it costing too much for the client. still want become competitive. That's because then it's trust ⁓ and So at the moment, that's our hurdle to make sure that the jobs are being done in the time stated. Otherwise, once goes over that day, the company profits to pay those overheads. ⁓ Granger Forson: Yeah, the hurdle is really sometimes your fitting time is taking longer than planned, therefore you're losing profit. All right, so ⁓ in one simple sentence, ⁓ what better look in the next quarter if you could fix problem? Natalie: Okay, so first of all, I've had a good think about this. think that the first stage ⁓ ⁓ ⁓ fitting that job knows about the day's status and ensures they get the spec and they ensure that they can fit it in that time. ⁓ Granger Forson: Okay. Natalie: That's the first thing. Once they commit and say, yeah, that should be enough days for me, that they've got to then do it in those days because they've committed to do it in those days. We could even have that in writing. I think also as a fitter, we should have some sort of retention, is something that ⁓ you've got window companies that watch this, it's definitely something that has been done in other companies that deans dealt with, which then you if ⁓ things are you extra because of ⁓ an organization fitting times. ⁓ Granger Forson: Okay. Okay, yep. Natalie: I think then really the main thing is if you had two teams going out doing two jobs your overheads get split twice. So you still really seem competitive because ⁓ your only get taken out and it's only ⁓ one per ⁓ but if had two, three teams that would be split. It's really the pressure is on if you've got one job going on that day with one team and that hope overhead needs to be covered. Granger Forson: growth will help you deal some of those elements. Okay, but let's talk about what proportion, what of jobs are taking longer than planned? ⁓ Natalie: Probably I would say at the moment. Not excessively longer. We're not talking, ⁓ it was a five-day job we're not talking another four. ⁓ talking if it's a five-day job it's five and a half. And it could be down to just these niggly bits. Could be down to weather. ⁓ could be down to things that can't be controlled. But I say 50-50 at the moment. Granger Forson: Okay. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Okay, brilliant. Yep. Okay, so we've got about 50 % of jobs that call them slightly run over due to what's happening. What would ideal be the next quarter? What of percentage would be better for you a business? 100 % isn't to work straight away. ⁓ Maybe it could, what would be ⁓ better condition than %? ⁓ Natalie: Yes. Of course not, Yeah. I would like in the first quarter to make it more like a 70-30 and then even build from that. Like I said, there is, we are an outside as well as inside company and any builders that are on here with bricklaying, they know it happens a lot and that's where we lose. Granger Forson: Okay. Yep. Yep. Absolutely. Yeah, so there's always gonna be, so what you're saying is there's always gonna be sort of at this moment in time, at least sort of 30 % that is out of your control. And whether somebody else that you can't negotiate with, because that's just the situation where we. Natalie: Yes. Granger Forson: So, but there's still 20 % that we could fix internally to make that better. Okay, so if we ignore all the external issues, what are the sort of, you you've mentioned a lot of issues so far. What are the ones that you are causing, do you think yourselves and the 20 % ones? What are those issues that taking place? Okay. Natalie: Yes. I think it's lack of communication. it's the decision one main fitter deciding how long it's going to take, but not actually being the one that fits. So our surveyor is the that will say, yeah, that would take me ⁓ so many But he's not one that fits it. ⁓ But ⁓ he's there the job. Granger Forson: Right. Yeah, he's not there on the job dealing with all the little nuances. Yeah. Natalie: all the time. So lack of communication, that's why I think especially when our teams start to build they get ⁓ a of what they've got that week or what jobs are coming in. know even have a kind of, not vote, but a kind of discussion with the fitters how long do you think this would take and ⁓ Granger Forson: But I'm just interested, yeah, I'm interested in that. I'm interested in that. The reason I'm interested in that is for this reason. you get on site, you don't physically know. ⁓ Natalie: It is an average. mean, I don't think chat GBT is great for everything. Yeah. Granger Forson: All you've got is your experience. So you've got the experience of your surveyor the estimate, of doing the estimate. Even if then ask your fitters, it's an estimate and it's all based on experience. So you could average the estimate or actually... When you measure the jobs and they go over, what do you do as a business then? What happens when something takes longer than planned that is within your control? We have the situations we said, the builder changes something or the weather doesn't work out or something. But there are things that happen within your control. What do you do as a business when that happens? ⁓ Natalie: It depends on what reason it was. If it's simply because the fitter take a piece of equipment from the lock up and he didn't have time to go back, ⁓ then would be set to go back and finish that without ⁓ any pay. because he, that's it, that's his line of being, the problem is we've got, is he's not getting anything extra, like an extra day rate to go out there again following day, because he's on price. the problem we got is that those overheads still have to go out. Yeah. Granger Forson: Yeah. Yeah. Yes, absolutely, absolutely. So let's take that. Something was missed, we didn't put it in the van, we didn't organise it. So would be causing somebody miss something, not to take it on site that's important? Natalie: Well, it would be on this particular occasion, the van was a different van. So it needed to be, it needed to have the ladders put on there. So it was a ladder issue and the ladders weren't on the van. Granger Forson: Okay. Natalie: But that particular fitter, wasn't his van. So he was having the, he was in the, in the pool van, the company van that everybody can use. it was just a matter ⁓ those ladders not being put in the van before that those ⁓ fitters left, which is very frustrating. ⁓ And then the question for me is why didn't you go back and get them? You ⁓ Granger Forson: Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's so good, definitely. Yes, Or the real question is why isn't there a set of ladders on the standard van? If every van needs ladders, shouldn't every van have ladders? Natalie: Yeah, so they should have been put back on there. They were taken off for a reason and they were put in the lockup and they should have been put back on there. But almost like if you go out to a medical emergency you wouldn't miss your defibrillator. You know, so you have to make sure before anybody goes out on a medical emergency or on a shift they've got to make sure everything is in their van. So I look at it. Granger Forson: Yeah, yeah. Absolutely yes, yes. And they don't rely on, exactly I love that example, but what they're not doing is they're not relying on the knowledge the individual to remember because they're going out in an emergency. What do they use? ⁓ do think they use? A checklist, absolutely, yes. ⁓ have you got checklists for standard equipment before you leave the yard? Okay, so. Natalie: Yeah. Yep. A checklist. A checklist. Nope. Granger Forson: This is where you get that growth through feedback. Rather than saying, ⁓ dear, you've now got to go out there and run it yourself. We're not going to pay you, but we're still covering the overhead. I understand that. That's a learning opportunity to say, why did we go out without that on the roof? Why was that ladder there? Well, because we haven't got a checklist. Or if we did have a checklist, does the checklist actually say we need to do this? Now, what can happen is people can start going, Natalie: Mm-hmm. Granger Forson: I've got these procedures that I've got to follow. So the checklist is important to describe why we have the checklist. So the top of the checklist is saying we do this in order that when you get on site, you have everything you need so you can hit the standard time that we need you to do this within. then the checklist then follows of what we need to remember and do. We tick it off, we sign it, whatever we need to do for the checklist. ⁓ it's next time there's a problem, in the van I didn't have crowbar I don't know what you need ⁓ yeah ⁓ ⁓ as a business you then say okay we failed again Natalie: Yes. Yeah. Granger Forson: But we can control that. So now we add that to the checklist to make sure it's in place. And that's how you then build that learning into your checklist over time and your checklist get better and better and better. And surgeries use them. As you say, when we're going out in emergency in the ambulances, they use them. Pilots use them. Pilots use them every single time. They use checklists all the time. They're trained to use checklists because there's so much to do and remember. We can't remember it all. So let's make it really easy for ourselves by using a checklist. Natalie: Yes. Yes. Granger Forson: last. Natalie: yeah, that's definitely something that we can put forward. It's not going to be expensive to do and it's going to be practical. So we'll put that forward. That's great. Thank you. Granger Forson: yeah, it's a real important And it's that continuous learning and feedback into the checklist, which will also help to take that forward. ⁓ yeah. ⁓ what ⁓ one experiment could you do tomorrow then to start finding out whether this would work for you? Natalie: Hmm. Thank you. Wow, look at making a checklist. So what I can do tomorrow is speak to and of go through scenarios of what things he thinks are needed. We can then put it in our business WhatsApp group. People can add to it and we'll make a checklist from there really making sure that everyone's got everything on their van. Ensuring that the van ⁓ is organized. had feedback that one van is more organized than the other so ensuring that both vans are as organized as the other and that particular fitter has got a very organized van. come in to help organise the other van. ⁓ And then once we do that we know where everything is. Granger Forson: effect. Absolutely. Standardizing systems is so important, especially in the physical world, the organization of it, having two identical vans, building as a group an identical setup so we can easily spot when something is missing and doing that's another really fantastic experiment. Brilliant. that's we're going to go off ⁓ and and do. ⁓ Now that in place. Natalie: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yes. Granger Forson: What do you think you'll see as success moving forwards? Natalie: Well, hopefully it's going to happen. We're going to get more organised in knowing exactly how many days are going to be manageable for the fitter. ensuring the fitter and the fitter's mate know where everything is because the fitter's mate is somebody that can go to the van while the fitter is getting them so they know exactly where everything is that's gonna save time they're not looking because know ⁓ some of the vans are unorganized then it could be ⁓ that's ⁓ on the time ⁓ if a fitter's mate is actually trying to go into the van and look for things that takes time and then make sure that we get this checklist up together and then see where it goes. You know, it'd be interesting in a few months time to see where ratios are and whether they have got better. Granger Forson: Yeah. and And then just building that continuous feedback and learning, because as we said, there are some things you can impact the 20%, there things you maybe at this moment can't impact the other 30%. But by focusing on that 20 % and becoming excellent at everything you do, and when things go wrong, it's like saying, okay, it went wrong, what could we do? How do we improve the van setup? How do we improve the checklist setup to make sure we have everything we need before we turn up and we can be organized and efficient. And you talked about, you know, being able to understand the time to fit. Sometimes fitting time takes longer because the physical environment didn't turn out to be what everybody thought it was going to be. And those are those moments when you come together. So Dean, your estimator, the fitter and yourself, and you all come together and discuss what happened, understand the difference in the environment and then decide how you would build Natalie: Hmm. Granger Forson: that into your estimation process or your surveying process because the more you can build knowledge into that upfront the more accurate your post-fitting time will be accurate to what you're doing. So building that structure within your business to build that reflection and review without incriminating, without pointing fingers but learning and growing is another awesome thing that you can do. Natalie: Yeah, Fabulous Granger Forson: Brilliant. Okay, so let's do our wrap up and close now. Natalie, what did you hear yourself today that maybe surprised you? Natalie: I think that, know, just being able to solve quite a big thing for us ⁓ ongoing and having a ⁓ in place ready to go straight away that's not going to cost too much, and it's just all communication and organisation. So I'm actually really excited get that if I'm running now and seeing where we go with it. So that was great. Thank you. Granger Forson: ⁓ how can people get a hold of you to follow more of your journey? Natalie: Right, so with Severn View, we are on internet ⁓ ⁓ That Severn, like the river Severn. We're also on social media, Facebook, we're on Instagram ⁓ and as well. Granger Forson: Brilliant. Well, Natalie, thank you so much for being open and honest with us today. I know our listeners will get an awfull lot from this conversation. It's been fantastic. Thank you. Natalie: Thank you very much, Granger.