Latest / Libido Lounge / What’s REALLY Stopping Women From Fully Enjoying Pleasure with Dr. Jenn Kennedy

Transcript

What’s REALLY Stopping Women From Fully Enjoying Pleasure with Dr. Jenn Kennedy · Libido Lounge

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  There's so much history that walks in the door.
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  What they were raised with culturally, what has influenced them, as well as what has occurred
• 0:07
  in their previous relationships, romantic and family.
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  Doctor Jen Kennedy is a clinical sexologist and licensed marriage and family therapist based in
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  Santa Barbara.
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  She specializes in the areas of relationships, sex, addiction, and LGBT.
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  In 2023, Doctor.
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  Jen launched the Pleasure Project, which is dedicated to helping us all have better sex
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  lives.
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  Through this venture, she hosts a podcast called the pleasure project sex and
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  relationships and offers small group intensives for women and couples.
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  She recently launched a self guided course and is coming out with a pleasure circle workbook
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  in 2025.
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  Doctor.
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  Jen has been quoted in Redbook, Reader's Digest, Forbes Health, Daily Om, Shondaland,
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  Parade, Allure, Yahoo Life, and others.
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  Some people, you know, don't feel like they can be the initiator, which puts a lot of
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  responsibility on partner.
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  It just doesn't feel fun.
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  And it's like, you know, I I feel like if they can articulate what they expect and why, so
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  much of this is just ingrained.
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  Sex isn't just about sex.
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  It's about intimacy.
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  If we can help them with this piece, their intimacy is going to improve.
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  A 2023 Harvard study found that out of everything it looked for as far as the root
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  causes to help people have longer, healthier lives, the number one thing the study found
• 1:33
  that people should focus on is their relationships.
• 1:37
  So to help solve some of the relationship crisis that we have around the world, I have
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  created this upcoming three day eternal honeymoon extravaganza.
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  I am bringing together 15 speakers from around the world in the love, sex, intimacy, and
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  relationship space to help you finally have better passion, have better sex, have better
• 2:03
  connection, communication, intimacy, and more.
• 2:07
  And this event is normally $3.97 and it is on sale right now for $1.
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  So I hope you will prioritize your relationships and join me at this epic event.
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  Hey, everybody.
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  Welcome back to another episode of the lounge.
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  I'm so excited to introduce you to doctor Jen here with me today.
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  We're gonna talk about all sorts of things.
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  We're gonna talk about some things with partner sex, some things that are getting in the way of
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  your pleasure oftentimes that commonly get in the way of people's pleasure.
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  We're gonna talk about the uniqueness that people, especially women in queer relationships
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  face, as well as how these types of things, actually many of them, can also apply to hetero
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  relationships as well.
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  So really juicy conversation for women, really juicy conversation for couples happening today.
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  Thank you so much for being here and listening to another episode of the lounge, and welcome,
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  doctor Jen.
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  Thank you for being here.
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  Thanks.
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  Yeah.
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  Always good to talk to a colleague.
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  Yeah.
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  Exactly.
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  Exactly.
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  Well, let's start big picture because we're gonna go into a lot of things, a lot of
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  challenges, a lot of things that get in the way with pleasure.
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  But one of those things that I think can can happen that is so implement you know,
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  instrumental that we talked about a little bit offline is our beliefs, you know, our belief
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  system.
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  And and the beliefs that we have oftentimes from various things in our life that run our
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  show, that run our decisions, that run our lives many times that we don't even know these
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  beliefs exist, and they oftentimes run our sex life, our intimacy life and decisions.
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  So you talk a little bit about, like, what you see in your work around beliefs people have and
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  how their beliefs can impact their desire, their pleasure, so much more?
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  Yeah.
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  Absolutely.
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  I feel like there's so much history that walks in the door.
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  Right?
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  It's not just like what's happening in this moment.
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  I wish people were in the moment, but so much so much of it is about, you know, what they
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  came in with, what they were raised with culturally, what has influenced them, as well
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  as what has occurred in their previous relationships, romantic and family.
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  And so it's it's all about that.
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  It's it's what they're what they're bringing to the party, and a lot of it's unconscious.
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  So they think they're just doing what's reasonable, and yet it's also they're back
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  being back led into each and every decision.
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  So their beliefs are what makes sense to them, perfectly good sense, but it's not always
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  actually serving them.
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  So So just so everybody is with us, maybe give would you give us an example of what you've
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  seen to be a positive, a supportive belief that maybe somebody has around pleasure, as well as
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  a, you know, maybe kind of dysfunctional or we could say unsupportive belief that somebody has
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  around pleasure?
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  Yeah.
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  So giving and receiving is definitely one of those things, or initiation can be another one.
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  Sometimes there's gender roles in that.
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  Like, I have to wait to, you know, be approached can be a really tough one, where
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  some people, you know, don't feel like they can be the initiator, and so they're sort of in
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  this waiting mode, which puts a lot of responsibility on partner, or it puts a lot of
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  responsibility on self.
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  You know?
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  And so you're in this sort of holding pattern of rigidity that doesn't make for flow.
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  It doesn't allow for, like, this kinda natural give and take, and and you're you're in this
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  role that that feels, yeah.
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  It just doesn't feel fun.
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  It doesn't feel easy.
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  And so then if if x doesn't happen, then y can't happen.
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  And so it doesn't serve, and it doesn't end up feeling like, you know, spontaneity certainly
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  isn't available.
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  And so it limits what can what can happen, and that matters sexually.
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  Right?
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  Sex can't.
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  Mean, it can happen, but it doesn't happen, and it's not nearly as much fun if it can't be in
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  that space.
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  Yeah.
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  I think those are those are really good points.
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  Like, this concept of one person is not wanting to initiate because they have a belief that it
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  should always be that opposite person.
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  Right?
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  And sometimes there is, like you said, a a gender component of that.
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  Yeah.
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  It's, like, really easy to see how that can be dysfunctional and, you know, and just not not,
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  say, helpful to the sexual relationship or otherwise.
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  So in these situations, right, where beliefs oftentimes are running subconscious, right, we
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  are making our decisions, we're creating actions based upon these, and people are
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  oftentimes coming to, you know, people like yourself or myself to, you know, to help them
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  have better relationships, better connection, better intimacy and sex.
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  What do you, you know, tell people from a standpoint of belief?
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  What are like, do you have a process for helping people start to uncover maybe any other
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  beliefs that are running the show?
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  Yeah.
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  I think it's helpful, first of all, just to sort of un like, make them explicit.
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  Right?
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  Unpack them.
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  Like, what is how do you guys do this?
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  How does this typically go down?
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  What is your dance?
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  And then tell me why.
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  Because, like, they they reflect it like it's a default.
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  Like, of course, that's how it happens.
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  And I'm like, I'm just curious.
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  I'm trying to get really in there and get curious with them and then sort of go, well,
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  how did how did that come to be?
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  Because I know lots of people that do it differently.
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  Like, what would it be like if it wasn't that way?
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  What would it be like if she started it?
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  Or what would it be like if it started at this other time of day or in this other room or, you
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  know, with this other device?
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  Or you know?
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  And just some you know, kind of challenge them with with some ideas of disruption and see what
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  their beliefs are around that.
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  Because sometimes sometimes it's kind of an arbitrary holding that they've got going, and
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  they're not even really aware of it.
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  They just assume that they're so rutted into that single way.
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  And so sometimes they'll let go of it with some trepidation but willingly, and sometimes
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  they're, like, holding onto it into your life.
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  You know?
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  Yeah.
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  Curious.
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  Yeah.
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  And I like this process.
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  Right?
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  So it sounds like you're largely just asking them questions around, okay, you know, describe
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  to me Mhmm.
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  A intimate moment or describe to me something, and it sounds like you're just listening for,
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  right, in your process around what they say and then looking for any of those things like,
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  well, here I was waiting for my partner to approach me and they didn't again, you know, or
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  something like that.
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  And that might then cue you into, hey, they have this belief about needing to be approached
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  because they're just acting like it's this is what should happen versus, hey.
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  Tonight is a unique scenario, and I really wanted my partner to, you know, approach me for
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  this x y z reason.
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  Right?
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  That might be a a different scenario, and that that's what you're looking for.
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  Right?
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  Yeah.
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  And it's like, you know, I I feel like if they can articulate what they expect and why but,
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  you know, so much of this is just ingrained, and it's I mean, I see couples that have been
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  together usually for quite some time, and so they've got their dance pretty established.
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  And they go into these routines, and they're both taking part in it.
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  But they've I'm always curious to see what have they tried already.
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  Because, typically, they have tried some things, but they fall back into this pattern
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  that has proven unsatisfying.
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  So they're coming in with some starts at at efforts that haven't worked.
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  So they're in a little bit more of a place where they're inclined to try something
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  different because they're sitting in front of me.
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  They're yanking for help.
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  You know?
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  So they're willing.
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  Yeah.
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  But I get curious first to go, what have you tried and, you know, give them credit for that
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  and then say, okay.
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  Well, let's let's open this up a little bit broader and see what might else you know, what
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  else could work.
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  And I know from looking at your work online, you use a lot of vibrators or various sex toys
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  as supportive therapies for couples.
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  And with men, I think it's, you know, it's common to think of like, okay, the common, you
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  know, beliefs that men have around vibrators used in their sex life are things like, well,
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  it's gonna replace me, or there's gonna be vibrator addiction, or, you know, these are the
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  kind of things that we, I think, hear commonly.
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  Do you find that there are certain beliefs that women commonly have about vibrator use?
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  And and if so, what are those?
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  You know, it's interesting.
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  It feels like there's, an age delineation there.
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  Like, younger women are all for it.
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  Older women tend to have some hesitancy and less experience I find with, using vibrators.
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  In the groups I run, they tend to be older women, and so there's less there's less
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  familiarity, but there's some curiosity.
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  I think there's also some fear that they might become dependent or that they might offend
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  their male partner or that, yeah, the the the the partner might feel some jealousy or feel
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  replaced or that kind of thing.
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  So I some of this is just educating them, giving them some awareness of, like, how this
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  can be incorporated as adjunctive and not not create a competition.
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  You know?
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  Yeah.
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  It be it can be really helpful.
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  Yep.
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  We're not a television penis versus dildo.
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  No.
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  It can it can do all kinds of lovely things.
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  And sometimes it can also be just it can be really helpful to both partners.
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  So it doesn't have to, you know, be this shameful thing or this this giving up.
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  It can actually be really helpful.
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  Seen as, like, sexual wellness, you know, assistance.
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  Yeah.
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  So do you have I'm super curious because this is a conversation that I have a lot with
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  couples too, I'm very curious to see how aligned we are here in in our methodology.
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  What is your process for, like, instructing, you know, giving couples support with with
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  bringing a vibrator, bringing a toy into their relationship and into their intimate space,
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  especially in these situations where, you know, there are these beliefs, there is this fear,
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  there is, you know, there there are these these kind of core, core, yeah, core beliefs that
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  they need to be careful with.
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  So tell me about your process, if you would.
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  So it depends on kinda where they are in their process.
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  So I've got and this is with any anybody single or coupled.
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  I'm sometimes gonna say, hey.
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  Have you thought about this?
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  We're gonna talk about it first.
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  I might send them, like, some visuals.
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  I might talk them through it.
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  I've got samples in the office for different things that might might be helpful.
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  Just to kinda normalize it, let them put them put it in their hand and hold it and, you know,
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  say it's not this big scary thing.
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  This is how it's gonna feel.
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  This is this is how you're gonna take care of it and wash it.
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  This is how it's gonna bring blood flow.
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  This is how it's gonna make contact with body parts.
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  You know?
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  So it's it's like feels like I'm kind of a medical professional a little bit, like giving
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  them some of that, and this is how good it's gonna feel.
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  You know?
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  Give them some so so that there's some hope and some excitement.
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  And then, typically, I'm finding that they're like, okay.
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  I'm gonna add to cart, you know, and see how it goes.
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  And if they don't like it, they don't have to use it.
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  But, typically, once they see again, it's not trying to replace partnered sex.
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  It's actually trying to enhance or prep or, you know, be be part of the mix.
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  Because most of the time, that is what is desired by both partners.
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  Right?
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  It's not like it's going to replace, but they're both feeling some disappointment, maybe
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  some shame, some some hesitancy because it's not working.
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  And this extra item is going to make connection possible.
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  The other piece I find that I mean, yes, I'm a sex therapist, but sex isn't just about sex.
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  It's about intimacy.
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  And if we can help them with this piece, their intimacy is going to improve.
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  And if they relationally feel more positive heading into the act of sex, relationally, we
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  are going to strengthen the unit.
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  And that's also, like, a big win.
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  You know?
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  So if in the five minutes to hour long that they're having actual sex or lovemaking time,
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  it's improved, the rest of their week is going to get better, and that feels like relationally
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  a a bonus.
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  Yeah.
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  That's actually my favorite reason why I do what I do.
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  Exactly.
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  Like, exactly that part right there.
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  It's like helping couples just be more in love and in, you know, better relationship with each
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  other.
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  And, yeah, I find similar in my work too that that that overcoming that myth, dispelling that
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  belief of this is going to replace instead of, like you said, enhance, I think that's, like,
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  what I've seen as well.
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  It's been one of the most fundamental, you know, fundamental things that that shifts that
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  openness.
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  Two, don't you find that in the sex toy conversation because it's not just about
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  vibrators.
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  It's about you know, sometimes I've talked about prostate stimulators.
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  Sometimes, you know, I'm talking about I've got I've been in conversation with this new company
• 14:55
  that has FirmTech that has, like you know, it restricts blood flow.
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  It's it's a device you put, you know, over the penis Mhmm.
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  That also monitors heart rate and everything like the Oura Ring.
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  Like, I'm I'm looking at it as different ways of enhancing overall wellness for the couple.
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  Right?
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  So sometimes, you know, it's it's one thing or another, but I'm being really practical about
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  it.
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  Like, what do you need to move your sex life in a positive direction?
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  And it might be nipple clamps.
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  Right?
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  It might be a blindfold.
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  It might be a little bit of hot wax.
• 15:29
  Yeah.
• 15:29
  Like, let's let's open the door here.
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  What is that company that does the the firmware?
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  It's called FirmTech.
• 15:35
  Oh, yeah.
• 15:35
  I have heard of FirmTech.
• 15:37
  I need to look into them.
• 15:38
  Have you heard of do you know Lioness?
• 15:40
  Have you heard of Lioness?
• 15:41
  No.
• 15:41
  Lioness is like that for women.
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  So it's a it's a rabbit style vibrator that will track female orgasms.
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  And so and they're super connected to research.
• 15:53
  They work with the Female Orgasm Institute and some of the research over there.
• 15:57
  And what they've been finding, what Linus is finding in some of their studies thus far is
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  that when women track, and it's like on an app so you can be with your partner and you can
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  actually see you know, your partner can see in real time what's happening, that is no surprise
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  like anything else that we send to, you know, track in our data software that orgasm, like
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  frequency and intensity improve.
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  So Yeah.
• 16:20
  But I'm glad to know.
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  Thank you for that reminder on on FirmTech.
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  I'm gonna reach out to them because this is an important important device.
• 16:27
  Okay.
• 16:27
  Well, let's talk a little bit about women in particular.
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  So what do you find for I would say let's talk about, like, women in general from a sex
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  perspective as far as challenges, and then let's even speak to queer women and talk about
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  some of the things that are unique to some of the challenges that queer women face from a
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  standpoint of of pleasure.
• 16:51
  Sure.
• 16:52
  Yeah.
• 16:52
  So women in general, I mean, it just takes a little longer than it takes for men.
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  Right?
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  We know this.
• 16:59
  Again, what's interesting is, of course, women by themselves, women masturbating can get it
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  done in about two minutes.
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  But but women, you know, with a partnered situation, need some more lead up time.
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  They just do.
• 17:11
  Right?
• 17:11
  Typically, their warm up is gonna be taking fourteen, seventeen minutes, somewhere in
• 17:15
  there.
• 17:17
  Women are more in their head.
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  You know, they're not their desire and their arousal or there's a gap there, so they need
• 17:23
  some time to get on board.
• 17:27
  They're bringing in much more history.
• 17:29
  They're bringing in culture.
• 17:30
  They're bringing in body messages.
• 17:31
  They're bringing in lots of other, you know, elements to the party.
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  They're bringing in responsibility and, you know, all all of their their relationship to
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  pleasure is much more complicated in general.
• 17:46
  This is some of the stuff I talk about in the course.
• 17:48
  But, what we also saw as a subset to that that's women in general.
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  But as we saw as a subset to that is women who are same sex attracted.
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  And this is specifically the data is different between bisexual women and lesbian women.
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  So the data I looked at mostly was lesbian women.
• 18:04
  But that their situations are are unique in still in that
• 18:10
  Just a quick interlude because I want to address that it is so common that people are
• 18:17
  struggling to prioritize their relationships and their intimate life between jobs and kids
• 18:22
  and caring for elderly parents and so much more.
• 18:26
  Sometimes it can just feel like a last thing on the to do list.
• 18:30
  Now if you're struggling with that or if you're struggling with having better sex or having
• 18:35
  good orgasms or lasting longer or erectile dysfunction or pelvic pain or something else in
• 18:41
  the sex emotional relationship intimacy space, you are definitely going to want to take a
• 18:47
  moment right now so you remember to sign up for the eternal honeymoon extravaganza.
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  I have 15 speakers I've specially curated and picked from around the world for a very
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  complete and holistic look and teachings and actionable steps from everything under the sun,
• 19:05
  sex, and relationships.
• 19:07
  So take a quick minute, go click on that link and register to make sure you remember, and I
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  look forward to seeing you there.
• 19:13
  Now let's get back to our episode.
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  In a couple ways.
• 19:17
  One is that they well, they have homophobia.
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  Right?
• 19:20
  So they're they're dealing with that internalized as well as just general
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  homophobia, so that's an extra layer.
• 19:25
  So they've got the coming out Mhmm.
• 19:27
  Component that sometimes causes more difficulty.
• 19:31
  On the sexuality side, they're negotiating sexual roles.
• 19:35
  So if you think about, you know, in society, there's typically roles for kind of the male
• 19:39
  and female components.
• 19:40
  Whereas in a same sex relationship, you're negotiating all of that.
• 19:44
  Who takes what role?
• 19:46
  You know?
• 19:46
  Now, statistically, it does show that females in relationship with one another sexually are
• 19:52
  more satisfied.
• 19:53
  The the frequency, is a bit less, but the satisfaction is higher because the orgasm rate
• 20:01
  is so much higher because the lovemaking tends to be longer.
• 20:05
  Like, the the the lead up is so much longer.
• 20:09
  Women in in sexual play with one another tend to define sex so much broader.
• 20:16
  So instead of it just being penetration, there's usually such a broader view of it.
• 20:21
  You know?
• 20:22
  So it's kissing.
• 20:23
  It's cuddling.
• 20:24
  It's touching.
• 20:24
  It's tributism.
• 20:26
  It's it's it's the whole gamut is defined as sex.
• 20:30
  So there's much more sensuality if you think about that from a full body based sensuality.
• 20:37
  There's there's a lot more activation happening.
• 20:39
  And so the end result is, you know, more satisfaction and typically higher orgasm rate.
• 20:47
  Mhmm.
• 20:48
  Yeah.
• 20:49
  It's a really interesting topic to me.
• 20:50
  I I went to one of my doctorates is in Chinese medicine, and I went to a Taoist inspired
• 20:56
  Chinese medicine school, and and Taoist philosophy is a lot about opposites.
• 21:00
  Right?
• 21:00
  It's like the feminine and the masculine and that all of us humans, every human has feminine
• 21:06
  and masculine qualities inside of us.
• 21:09
  And, you know, the power play.
• 21:11
  Right?
• 21:11
  The giver, the receiver is basically from a Taoist perspective.
• 21:15
  It's that polarity.
• 21:16
  It's that opposite.
• 21:17
  So, you know, I've I've I've not, like, as we talked about offline, my specialty is not in
• 21:22
  queer relationships, it's not what I've studied so much, so I refer out to people like you for
• 21:27
  this.
• 21:27
  But I'm curious in that, like, you've seen is, like, in, you know, in power play and some of
• 21:32
  these different things, like, do you find that it's, like, often helpful to coach women or
• 21:39
  other queer people in queer relationships to, say, change their power play to, like, okay.
• 21:45
  You're a giver.
• 21:45
  I'm a seer more.
• 21:46
  Have you found that it's helpful for couples to go, like, deeper into, you know, their own,
• 21:52
  like, oh, yeah.
• 21:52
  I'm definitely more of the kind of that masculine giver type of energy with somebody
• 21:58
  else in else being more in that feminine type of receptive energy?
• 22:01
  What have you seen there?
• 22:04
  It's so interesting.
• 22:05
  It's all over the it's all over the map.
• 22:07
  I'm thinking of Chapel Rowan's new song.
• 22:08
  I don't know if you've heard it.
• 22:09
  I don't
• 22:10
  know it.
• 22:10
  No.
• 22:10
  It's it's all about being a giver.
• 22:12
  It's funny.
• 22:14
  It's really different, and I see gay men too.
• 22:16
  So I've seen, you know, gay men gay male couples.
• 22:18
  I've seen I've seen the whole gamut.
• 22:21
  It really depends.
• 22:22
  And, it's so age related.
• 22:25
  I feel like historically, I saw a lot of more traditional roles where you'd see, like, the
• 22:32
  butch and the femme, and they were sort of in those fixed positions where one was more giving
• 22:38
  and one was more receiving, and they would sort of stay in those.
• 22:42
  The newer generation isn't in those nearly the same.
• 22:46
  There's a lot more ambiguity in terms of roles and even gender gender position.
• 22:53
  Mhmm.
• 22:54
  Know, there's a lot bigger range.
• 22:56
  I mean, twenty years ago, we didn't have the same languaging around, you know, gender being
• 23:05
  theythem and, you know, like, the whole the whole the whole ability to sort of be in there.
• 23:09
  And so that sort of plays into it too.
• 23:12
  I feel like the younger generation has been raised well, they've been raised with porn,
• 23:19
  first of all, so that affects everything.
• 23:21
  Mhmm.
• 23:21
  But there is much more interest in reciprocity and in gender switch in, sorry, in role
• 23:29
  switching.
• 23:30
  Mhmm.
• 23:30
  There's just more of a culture of that.
• 23:33
  So it depends on who's sitting in front of me and where they feel like they are.
• 23:37
  I'm not gonna say I'm not gonna say anything's important for any couple.
• 23:40
  Right?
• 23:41
  If they feel like they really love one particular role, then great.
• 23:45
  If they typically, I find that people kind of gravitate to a role, and that's men, women,
• 23:52
  women with women, whatever.
• 23:55
  But sometimes, there is an interest and a curiosity, and some of that's coming into that
• 23:59
  role as they age and mature.
• 24:03
  They sometimes wanna have more power in that other role, or they have more, as they get more
• 24:08
  confident, they actually wanna have more submission into a different role.
• 24:12
  And that's actually as they as they feel confident, they can be more submissive.
• 24:17
  I mean, we see that with men, right, in heterosexual relationships, more vulnerability,
• 24:22
  more submission.
• 24:23
  That can be a very powerful position too.
• 24:25
  And so part of that is just helping them articulate that.
• 24:28
  Where do you want to be, and how do you want to be pleasured, and what does that mean to you?
• 24:34
  And so giving them the safety, the confidence, the vulnerability to allow all of that to to
• 24:40
  come in, like, to what what actually turns you on in this?
• 24:43
  There's a lot of really powerful people who who actually fantasize about being very submissive.
• 24:50
  Yeah.
• 24:51
  You know?
• 24:51
  Yeah.
• 24:52
  Yeah.
• 24:52
  I mean, I think the the idea of being very submissive for, you know, for from a standpoint
• 24:57
  of people that operate type a superpower type of things.
• 25:01
  It's like the one place they can, you know, they can do that in many ways.
• 25:05
  And I was I was chatting with somebody the other day about even, like, Shibari, like like,
• 25:11
  the Japanese rope, you know, sacred rope tying, And that oftentimes a common thing I hear when
• 25:17
  people experience and experiment with that is when you're the one being tied up, instead of
• 25:22
  being feeling restricted, many people have more of the sensation of, like, their nervous system
• 25:27
  actually letting go and feeling, like, more safe and relaxed than that.
• 25:32
  You know, I think
• 25:33
  Recount.
• 25:34
  Yeah.
• 25:34
  Right.
• 25:34
  That can actually be preferable.
• 25:36
  Exactly.
• 25:37
  Exactly.
• 25:38
  So, you know, it's very interesting in these things.
• 25:40
  Go ahead.
• 25:41
  If you've seen this in your couples when you, like, assign them sensate focus or something
• 25:45
  like that, and and typically, one person kind of feels more comfortable giving versus
• 25:51
  receiving.
• 25:51
  Right?
• 25:52
  They they shine in that role, but then when you ask them to reverse, they're like you know?
• 25:58
  Yeah.
• 25:58
  That's where it starts to show.
• 25:59
  It does.
• 26:00
  I mean, and I I look at, you know, like giving, you know, sense, state, focus, these types of
• 26:04
  things as almost different archetypes that we have in us sometimes.
• 26:07
  And Yeah.
• 26:08
  You know, I just think sometimes we are almost, like, program nature probably and nurture both
• 26:13
  to have these certain archetypical, like, needs and preferences.
• 26:17
  And, you know, for some people, like, I see very much, like like, giving is actually the
• 26:23
  fastest way for them to get turned on is actually being in that giver role.
• 26:28
  And the moment they are in more of a receptive role, sometimes I've seen scenarios where those
• 26:33
  people are just they have a harder time actually getting aroused, that that is not as
• 26:37
  an aroused you know, it it doesn't create that level of arousal.
• 26:40
  So asking them to, you know, play in that role, you know, I think can be a curious and and
• 26:45
  useful thing.
• 26:47
  But sometimes, like, that arousal just doesn't happen.
• 26:49
  Do you see that as well?
• 26:51
  Yeah.
• 26:52
  Yeah.
• 26:52
  Absolutely.
• 26:53
  Sometimes there's I mean, I know plenty of gay women that don't receive at all ever.
• 26:59
  Yeah.
• 27:00
  And that's an interesting dynamic that has just always been.
• 27:05
  And I don't wanna pathologize it, but it it exists.
• 27:09
  And so understanding sort of who's who's sitting in front of me and what are their
• 27:14
  limits and what are their preferences.
• 27:16
  Right?
• 27:16
  I'm not gonna assume it's trauma.
• 27:18
  Sometimes that's just what they prefer and how they like to show up erotically and then going
• 27:24
  from there.
• 27:25
  Because as long as there's an entry point and as long as they know what they like and there
• 27:30
  is something that they like and that they have a partner that is willing to play with them in
• 27:34
  some way, then we've got we've got somewhere to go.
• 27:37
  Yeah.
• 27:38
  Yeah.
• 27:38
  That starting point, that entry is so key.
• 27:41
  I wanna make sure we have a moment to chat about attachment styles as well.
• 27:46
  And, you know, and like I mentioned offline, we do we have talked about attachment styles
• 27:51
  several times on here, so everybody, if you're listening, and you we have you have not heard
• 27:55
  those episodes, please go back and and listen to our other episodes on on attachment.
• 28:00
  But I do wanna talk a little bit about that and just from your perspective, like, where do you
• 28:06
  see attachment styles play into eroticism?
• 28:10
  And, you know, what are the strengths of helping figure out people's attachment style?
• 28:16
  And I guess the third part of that question is, do you feel that it is necessary for people to
• 28:23
  actually address their attachment style in order to achieve higher levels of pleasure and
• 28:29
  better eroticism?
• 28:32
  Yeah.
• 28:33
  So this is actually kind of where we began today, right, when you said about beliefs
• 28:36
  because I do feel like that's so connected to attachment because attachment often is, you
• 28:43
  know, coming from family of origin, from your original caregivers
• 28:47
  Yeah.
• 28:48
  As as are your beliefs.
• 28:50
  And so that not that it can't change, but typically, that's where it's sort of coming
• 28:55
  together is how you were raised.
• 28:58
  And early caregiving starts to give you messages about who you can trust, including
• 29:04
  yourself, how you see the world, how safe it is, how much, you know, how much you can
• 29:12
  venture out, and do you think your needs are going to be met, that type of thing in the
• 29:17
  world.
• 29:17
  And then how does that take one step over?
• 29:20
  How does that translate erotically?
• 29:23
  How does that you know, like that old saying in bed, that's how I see everything.
• 29:27
  So we look at someone's attachment style.
• 29:29
  I think it's a really good predictor of what are they gonna how are they gonna show up
• 29:34
  ironically.
• 29:35
  Because, for example, if they're securely attached, which is gold standard, right, that's
• 29:40
  that's that's best, then they are going to probably good be good with setting boundaries.
• 29:47
  They are going to be able to articulate what they need.
• 29:50
  They are going to ask in relationship what they want.
• 29:53
  They're gonna be able to ask in the bedroom for what they want.
• 29:56
  They're gonna be able to hear a no when when they don't want something.
• 30:00
  They're gonna be able to say that.
• 30:03
  They are going to feel confident and secure in a various in various settings.
• 30:10
  They're going to be able to handle it if their partners is weepy or tearful or kinky or
• 30:16
  whatever.
• 30:16
  Right?
• 30:16
  They can handle it.
• 30:17
  So so being in relationship, being in, erotic or intimate space with a with a secure lover is
• 30:23
  wonderful.
• 30:25
  They can really bring it out.
• 30:28
  It it does matter.
• 30:29
  I think it's super helpful to understand where you're coming from from that standpoint because
• 30:35
  it'll inform and likely influence how you show up erotically.
• 30:39
  So knowing that, I think, can be really helpful.
• 30:42
  And and you can improve it by being in relationship with somebody more secure, but
• 30:46
  it's good to at least know as a starting place.
• 30:48
  Yeah.
• 30:49
  That's that's one of the things I have emphasized so much that's always worth, you
• 30:52
  know, saying again, which is I think it's so frequent that people are saying that, hey, when
• 30:59
  we have these things to work on, we need to, you know, go work on them ourselves and don't
• 31:04
  get in a relationship until you're whole.
• 31:06
  And so if you find out that you're anxiously attached, like, go figure that out.
• 31:10
  And, you know, what I find, in more in the sex therapy world as well as in a lot of, I think,
• 31:19
  more advanced relationship coaching is that it really brings light to the fact that a lot of
• 31:24
  how we heal these insecurities and a lot of how we actually form, you know, better attachment
• 31:29
  styles in this particular conversation is is actually in relationship.
• 31:34
  It's not on our own.
• 31:35
  It's actually we heal, and it's, like, shows the power, I think, of relationships We heal in
• 31:39
  the middle of our relationships, and we can do that.
• 31:42
  We don't have to be a 100% healed and and fix everything on our own.
• 31:45
  We can do that together.
• 31:47
  Yeah.
• 31:47
  Because when you have, like, a difficult moment, say, like, a really vulnerable,
• 31:52
  embarrassing, or whatever moment sexually, and someone says, hey.
• 31:56
  It's okay.
• 31:57
  I'm right here.
• 31:58
  Like, you're good.
• 32:00
  That's show reparative.
• 32:01
  Right?
• 32:02
  That's you can't do that by yourself.
• 32:04
  You I mean, you can soothe yourself and say, well, I'm not whatever.
• 32:07
  But, like, when someone else does it and they're witnessing it and they're they're cool
• 32:10
  with you and they are loving, that is so healing.
• 32:15
  Yeah.
• 32:16
  Yeah.
• 32:16
  My partner helped me so much develop a more secure attachment style, and there was just I
• 32:20
  used to be very, very anxiously I shouldn't say very, very.
• 32:23
  Give myself one very, but still so anxiously attached.
• 32:28
  And when I would have moments of saying things to him, be like, where where I would kinda
• 32:33
  start to spin out, he would say to me, he's like, you're take a breath.
• 32:38
  You're allowed you're you're human.
• 32:39
  You're allowed to have a moment.
• 32:40
  And it was just it it was like all it took.
• 32:43
  So affirming.
• 32:43
  It was so affirming, right, to just be like, oh, right.
• 32:47
  I don't have to be.
• 32:47
  It was like a lot of perfectionism for me and just like that reminder of like, I don't have
• 32:52
  to be a perfect human all the time.
• 32:53
  Like, I'm gonna be as good a human as I can, but it's okay if I make mistakes.
• 32:57
  It was just so affirming to like feel like that did not mean I was going to get rejected.
• 33:02
  Right?
• 33:03
  Yeah.
• 33:04
  So it's so amazing.
• 33:05
  We can heal this stuff internally or, I mean, interrelationally.
• 33:09
  So I know you have a free quiz on this that we're gonna put in the show notes on
• 33:14
  determining your attachment styles.
• 33:16
  And so we'll have that in the show notes, everybody, of how you can get Doctor.
• 33:19
  Jen's free quiz.
• 33:20
  But tell us a little bit about, like, how you utilize something like that quiz.
• 33:24
  Like, how do you use that in context of your work with your clients?
• 33:29
  Yeah.
• 33:29
  So that's part of the the course that I have.
• 33:32
  So I've been doing this course live for a couple years.
• 33:34
  Now it's part of a self guided, assessment that I use that's built in.
• 33:39
  But the idea being, you know, once you have that information, it's like I said, it's not
• 33:43
  fixed, but it's information for you to then say, oh, okay.
• 33:48
  This is maybe the position I'm in right now.
• 33:50
  Say, you you mentioned anxious.
• 33:51
  So anxiously attached.
• 33:53
  K.
• 33:54
  That's good information for you to know about you or your partner is that maybe you might be
• 33:59
  a little bit more seeking of reassurance, or you might really, really benefit from, like,
• 34:04
  pillow talk after sex, right, where you want kind of that, like, cuddling and that
• 34:09
  closeness.
• 34:11
  Understanding that your tendencies are explained by this history and what tends to
• 34:18
  serve you best is x, y, and z.
• 34:21
  Right?
• 34:21
  So understanding that frame makes some sense of your world.
• 34:25
  And also, if you're aware of something, you can choose to do something healthier and different
• 34:31
  to move closer to the healthier attachment as well.
• 34:36
  I love it, and and I hope everybody will go take that because it is such a useful, useful
• 34:40
  thing to, you know, just bring that that awareness and like you said, it's like that
• 34:44
  knowledge that's like as soon as things are brought to light, as soon as we know, we can
• 34:49
  take different actions.
• 34:50
  So the first step is knowing and understanding and then you can choose differently.
• 34:54
  So I hope you guys will take that quiz.
• 34:56
  Is there anything that you feel like is important to say today that we did not say that
• 35:00
  you wanna wrap up with?
• 35:05
  It's just it's a journey.
• 35:07
  I guess I want I just wanna encourage people that you're not fixed in your sexuality and
• 35:11
  just, you know, be curious and just continue to engage.
• 35:17
  Engage with yourself, engage with with others.
• 35:19
  I love that people are listening into this.
• 35:21
  And yeah.
• 35:23
  And if they want more information, I do have a self guided course that they can take at their
• 35:29
  leisure called the Pleasure Circle.
• 35:31
  Amazing.
• 35:32
  And we can put that in the show notes, everybody, as well, so you'll have a link to
• 35:35
  that.
• 35:35
  And, yeah, I really appreciate that advice so much.
• 35:38
  I think that's it's like anything in life.
• 35:40
  Right?
• 35:40
  It's so easy for us to get as humans just, like, locked in around, this is who I am.
• 35:45
  And what we see is that the only constant is change, and that is also true about our
• 35:49
  eroticism as much as anything else in this human life.
• 35:52
  So thank you everybody for listening to another episode on The Lounge.
• 35:57
  Please do subscribe so you can get more interviews just like this, and thank you,
• 36:01
  doctor Jen, for being here.
• 36:02
  It's a pleasure.
• 36:03
  Yeah, thank you.
• 36:08
  Thank you for listening to the Libido Lounge.
• 36:10
  Please don't keep me a secret.
• 36:12
  Please share this with your friends.
• 36:13
  You can find me on YouTube, on Instagram, as well as how to work with me at mylibidodoc.com.