Latest / Closing Sales in Nigeria - Sales For The Nigerian Business Person: The Sales and Marketing Blueprint / Stop Discounting: How to Fix & Sell at Your Fair Price

Transcript

Stop Discounting: How to Fix & Sell at Your Fair Price · Closing Sales in Nigeria - Sales For The Nigerian Business Person: The Sales and Marketing Blueprint

• 0:01
  Today on the podcast, we're going to be looking at how, or
• 0:05
  rather why pricing isn't the only issue in your business.
• 0:10
  Again today on the podcast, we're going to be looking at why
• 0:13
  or how pricing isn't the only issue.
• 0:17
  Because I've said it on the podcast in the past and I'm
• 0:20
  repeating it again today. Even if your product or your
• 0:23
  service were free, believe me, not everybody will take it.
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  You think price is the issue. Also, every time you drop your
• 0:31
  price, you say someone in our 50K, people say, ah, it's too
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  much, it's OK, let me charge 700.
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  You say, ah, it's too much, let me charge 6650.
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  Ah, it's too much. Let me charge 600, let me charge
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  500. Let me.
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  Even if you get to 0, some people still will not take it.
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  Pricing is not the only issue and that's what we're going to
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  be looking at today. Now I'm making today's recording
• 0:54
  at home, so expect to hear some noise in the background,
• 0:57
  especially since the in laws are around.
• 1:00
  We have a big celebration coming up.
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  So you know the house is full. So anyway, what we talk about
• 1:06
  over here on the podcast is not my family issues, but rather
• 1:10
  business strategies, things that work over here in Nigeria.
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  And if those are the sorts of things that you want to hear,
• 1:15
  then you are in the right place and this podcast is your jam.
• 1:18
  So welcome to the podcast, I'm your host Tavishima Ayede.
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  Now for years this is just all I've been doing touching on
• 1:26
  ractical realistic relevant issues that will drive results
• 1:29
  for Nigerian businesses. So if you're ready to flashy all
• 1:34
  those generic podcasts, then stay locked in.
• 1:37
  Subscribe here on Spotify, YouTube, Apple or any player of
• 1:41
  your choice. And if you'd love to connect
• 1:42
  then call, send me a text message via WhatsApp message on
• 1:46
  08064662140. So like I said today, pricing is
• 1:56
  not the only issue because if your product or service was
• 2:00
  free, not everybody will take it.
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  If pricing is the issue and you remove price, in theory more
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  people will jump on board. But let's look at this
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  particular context. I have a client, they are in the
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  content production space producing content for social
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  media and they want to roll out their services and they're
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  thinking of doing that by offering a, by using a free
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  offer to build client acquisition.
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  In other words, the idea is this, you start off in the
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  market and you say, guys, I'm free.
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  Then people will rush you bro, you people don't rush.
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  They will say this is a very good service.
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  Then you now tell them, why pay me this amount?
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  Some people will run away, but the people that remain,
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  hopefully you'll be able to get some good business out of this.
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  So that is using a free offer as a client acquisition strategy.
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  Say you're free, people will rush to, you charge them
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  something, some people run away. The people that remain and pay
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  should be enough to fund your business.
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  So that actually is the strategy behind freemium business models.
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  So if you remember on the podcast, when I spoke about the
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  guy in Abuja, excuse me, whose business was an E library, it's
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  the same thing. You start your E library, you
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  have the app, it's free, and then millions of people jumped
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  there or hopefully millions of people do.
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  Then after a while you raise the price and of course when you do
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  that, hundreds of thousands of people will run away.
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  But hopefully the few 10s of thousands of people that remain
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  should be able to pay you enough.
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  Then you should be able to run your business.
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  So that's the idea behind freemium business models.
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  Now there's also something free in the tax base.
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  They call it product leg growth. And the whole idea is let people
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  feel your product, let them use your product, let them taste
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  your product with, well, not taste.
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  I mean, it's usually for software products.
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  But shall I let people feel you, let them see you, Let us see
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  what you're all about. And then that should be enough
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  to be able to get paid users at the end of the process.
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  So you can see that this is not something that these new
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  businesses have been doing it for a while.
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  This whole idea of let us start off free and do this and do
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  this. And hopefully at the end of
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  time, some people will paying. Now when my client told me this,
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  now this is how they intend to bring their product to the
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  market. I was against you too.
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  I told them I say, look, look, look, look, look, come on.
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  What we're supposed to do in the beginning is we're trying to
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  look for 12 clients because you know that if 12 clients pay so,
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  so, so amount, this is enough to finance the business for the
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  next three months. But anyway, I'm not in charge of
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  what clients actually do. So they went, they had their
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  board meeting and they decided that they would do this free
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  thing. So it's my own responsibility as
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  the consultant on hand to say, OK, if you've decided that this
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  is how we're going to go about it, let's, let's go ahead.
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  Let me see how best I can help you.
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  But this is the reason why I'm against these sorts of
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  strategies because when you're doing these sorts of things,
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  listen up, the best conversion you can hope for is between zero
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  to 3%. I repeat, I've said this before
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  in another podcast. I'm saying it again, and funny
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  enough, immediately after I did that podcast, somebody actually
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  wrote in and said, ah, excuse me, person.
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  I said, ah, not me too. This is the result I got to.
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  I sent out 75 from the 75. One person paid.
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  After one person paid, another person said, let's take a
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  meeting. And then the person didn't show
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  up for that meeting. So you can see that what I'm
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  saying is true. Zero to 3%.
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  That's the best you can hope for.
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  And then I told my client to look, if the goal is I want to
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  get 12 clients at the end of this, and conversion is usually
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  between zero to 3%, that means you have to do about 400 free
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  jobs to get 12 clients. When I said it, the girl's like,
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  wow. I was like, yeah, that's that's
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  what it means. So you see how we need to be,
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  how will I put it? The sales strategies that we
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  choose to adopt will determine the amount of work that we have
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  to do at the back end. That's why we have to be careful
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  before we decide we're going to do this.
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  We're going to do that because my own initial goal was OK, 12
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  clients. Let us take a much more direct
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  approach, traditional prospecting approach.
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  We'd all come up with a list of potential customers will come up
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  with a plan for how it is that we're going to approach them
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  trying to get 12 clients from targeting a few dozen people.
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  You know, let's say you target 5060 people at the end of the
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  day, you're hoping to close 12, you know, small.
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  Some people say that one is more hard work.
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  Anyway, it depends on how you look at it.
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  But for me, I prefer that if we want to get 12 clients, let's
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  drop a list of, you know, 50-60 people and then let's let's
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  attack it any which way. We should be able to get 10 at
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  the end of the day rather than picking this kind of process,
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  looking for a 3% conversion and having to do 400 free jobs
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  before we get to our clients. Now another reason why I didn't
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  like this approach was because you know, business is 2 parts.
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  Number one is finding the work or finding the customer.
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  Number 2 is actually doing the work.
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  So it is easy to say we'll do this thing for free and then 400
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  people will rush. But do you actually have the
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  manpower to do the fulfilment? Are you sure you're not going to
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  be overwhelmed with your production process?
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  400 free clients. So these were my initial
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  concerns. But anyway, like I said, as a
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  business, they met because they have a board and they decided.
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  So now it's out of my hands, but sure, that's what they're going
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  to do. So yeah, that's it.
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  So that situation with my with my client, but the reason why
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  I'm making this podcast recording today is this, I have
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  said in the podcast before that pricing is not really the issue
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  because let's face it that even if your product was free,
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  there's some people that will still won't buy.
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  So pricing is not the only consideration we should be
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  looking at. It's not the only factor that we
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  should be adjusting whenever we're in business problem
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  because it is one of the easiest things to adjust and that is
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  defaults that most people do. Business is not moving.
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  Let's say your product is a 30K for one business is not moving.
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  You say more do promo come on by to get one free or let's do a
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  promo 15% off between now and December 25th.
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  So fudging the price is the first thing that people do and
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  it's not my favorite option. There are other options, but I'm
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  not going to go into them because I've already spoken
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  about these things at length in other podcast episodes.
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  Anyway. So in trying to sell these
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  companies free offer, remember it's completely free for one
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  month. You won't pay any money.
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  Some people have been sceptical, which is normal.
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  You know, you offer anything free and I just, some people be
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  saying what's the catch? What's the catch?
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  And then there are people who understand that.
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  Oh, there is no catch that if after one month I don't like it,
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  I don't have to pay. And the things you produced, I
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  will still keep it. Even at that, some people
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  understanding, some people are still saying, yeah, not
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  interested. Let me repeat now some of you
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  who think that if you offer your product or your service for free
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  that people will rush you because money is an impediment.
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  Money can be an impediment, but there are other impediments as
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  well. Other factors to consider why
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  people are not doing business with you and money is not the
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  only one. So trust me, try it.
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  Whatever your product or services, drop it for free.
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  Even if your Mama put offer your food for free to 100 people, not
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  100 people are going to take you up on that offer.
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  The moral of the story is this. Some people are not going to buy
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  from you even if it is free. Excuse me, I repeat, the moral
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  of the story is this. Some people are not going to buy
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  from you even if it is free. So my own general recommendation
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  has always been this. Try and figure out a fair price
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  and stick to it. Again, I repeat, figure out a
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  fair price and then stick to it. No matter what happens, some
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  people come up with a fair price by looking at their
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  contemporaries. OK, I'm coming into this
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  business. I want to open Barber shop or I
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  want to sell how to do chicken ray.
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  I want to sell mobile gadgets. Then you look at your neighbor.
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  You look at your neighbors. How much is this business
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  charging? How much is that business
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  charging? Oh, OK, Business A is charging
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  2.5. Business B is charging 2.47.
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  OK, Yeah, I don't want to be too expensive.
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  Me, I'll just charge 2.4. So that's what some people do.
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  They come and look at their contemporaries, they come and
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  look at their competition and then they fix the price.
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  But once you have, in my own opinion, once you have fixed
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  that fair, what you think is a fair price, stick to it.
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  The other people who are going to fix their price because
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  they're looking for a number that makes sense, that is OK for
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  them to stay in business, they're OK.
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  Look, I want to sell these gadgets and how to make X amount
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  of profit and so because of that I have to put XYZ profit margin
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  on each of these products. Once you have fixed this thing
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  and you think it's a fair price, stick with it.
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  Don't fudge your price. Your focus should be on your
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  targeting. Are you talking to the right
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  people? Because they're business owners,
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  people who are self-employed, people who I meet.
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  Honestly speaking, price is not that bad, but the problem is you
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  are talking to the wrong people. And remember I keep saying that
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  there's no amount of talking to the wrong person or the wrong
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  people that is going to magically make them materialise
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  into the right kind of clients. Focus on your targeting, focus
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  on the ICP, the ideal customer profile.
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  Who are the main people that you're supposed to be talking
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  to. Also bear in mind that the other
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  buying considerations are that people want or need or are
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  interested in the thing in the 1st place.
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  Then of course they have to be able to afford it.
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  And then there also has to be a certain amount of urgency.
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  So you can meet somebody and say that this thing is free, but
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  right now there's no compelling reason right now why they should
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  take you up on your free offer. And if there's no compelling
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  reason, people are not going to move.
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  So fix your price. Isn't it a reasonable price?
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  What are your contemporary charging?
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  How much do you need to stay in business?
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  Is the price OK? Good.
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  Don't change that price again. If anything is the problem.
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  First of all, I assume that you're speaking to the wrong
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  people and try and refocus. Try and target.
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  It is advertising that you have been using to bring in clients.
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  Look at your targeting parameters in your Google or in
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  your Facebook. Facebook ad manager.
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  Tweak from there first before we go and start tweaking price.
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  If you're going out physically and talking to people, assume
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  that you've been talking to people in the wrong
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  neighborhoods. Sit down, brainstorm in the
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  office, you and your people and figure out where is the right
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  neighborhood of people that we should be hanging out in.
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  Which offices should we be going to?
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  Which markets in Abuja or Lagos should we be trying to be in?
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  Which kind of stores should we supposed to be?
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  Are we supposed to be in? Figure out all the targeting
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  issues first before you start forging press.
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  Then when you're having conversations with potential
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  customers, excuse me, make sure you're doing good qualification
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  and discovery. Make sure you're asking them
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  questions. We need to try and figure out if
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  they want this thing, if they need it, do they have a problem?
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  How bad is the problem? Of course, we always get to the
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  money conversations. Can they afford it?
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  And then a sense of urgency. There has to be something that
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  has determined why they want to take you up on this offer.
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  In fact, for this, my potential customer, sorry, my my current
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  client and my clients actually, I was able to fix up a meeting
• 14:49
  between them and another company.
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  And it's one of the questions that I asked the other company.
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  OK, we're glad that you're on board.
• 14:57
  Looks like it's a good idea. So I asked them, I tried to
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  figure out the sense of urgency. Is there any particular reason
• 15:04
  why you're willing to take them up on this offer for free
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  content right now? And then they started talking
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  now, Yes, because we're so, so, so and so industry.
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  November and December are usually big periods for us.
• 15:18
  This is currently mid-october. If we can agree now and if we
• 15:23
  can even start now and it's something that can yield
• 15:27
  effects, this actually is a good time for us to get this sort of
• 15:32
  thing going. And then also add them, you
• 15:34
  know, also ask some questions, you know, around around money.
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  In fact, let me even check my notes because it's just now.
• 15:43
  Now, now we finish this meeting. What did I ask you again?
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  So I asked them, OK, you're aware that this is a free offer.
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  They say yes, that's very good. How much have you budgeted to
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  solve your content needs? Like you will have somebody
• 16:01
  internal, How much do you pay that person?
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  Do you both source from external?
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  How much have you guys budgeted? We we had to have that
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  conversation because I'm mindful of the fact that this is my
• 16:12
  customer who is giving our free service.
• 16:14
  I'm mindful of the fact that at the end of the day, they still
• 16:16
  need to have that conversation. OK, this one month is up.
• 16:19
  The free one month, one month offer is done.
• 16:22
  I hope you're happy. Now that you're happy, can we
• 16:25
  start talking price for a paid engagement?
• 16:27
  So I asked the question, we're trying to figure out how much
• 16:32
  they budget for content production.
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  So when I say qualification and discovery, I'm saying these are
• 16:40
  the kinds of conversations that you should be having with
• 16:42
  people. So summary, what it is I'm
• 16:48
  trying to say is this. Once you have figured out what
• 16:52
  your fair price is, keep it. If you want to change anything,
• 16:58
  work on your targeting first. One moment.
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  OK, sorry about that. I'm back.
• 17:05
  Like I said, it's a full house and my attention was needed
• 17:08
  elsewhere. So yeah, sorry.
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  What I'm trying to say is decided on the price.
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  Make sure it's a fair price. Look at what your contemporaries
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  are charging. Make sure it's an OK price for
• 17:21
  you to stay in business. I'm sure the profit margin is OK
• 17:24
  because there's no point in charging, you know, whatever the
• 17:28
  amount is. And at the end of the day, when
• 17:31
  you add up all the profits is not enough to give you a healthy
• 17:34
  lifestyle and it's not enough to finance the business.
• 17:37
  So once you meet that, excuse me, once you meet those factors,
• 17:41
  don't play with price. Again, leave price alone.
• 17:44
  And I'm talking to people who are in the SME space.
• 17:47
  I'm not talking about people in the FCMG business.
• 17:50
  Is the FCMG fast moving consumer goods FM CG, FM CG.
• 17:56
  So coca, Coca-Cola, Unilever, you know all those people, they
• 17:59
  can be playing all these games, you know, buy 2 get one free,
• 18:03
  reduce 75 CL to 50 CL. Like they have lots of tools to
• 18:06
  play with. That's a big boy game.
• 18:08
  That's a big girl game. We haven't entered that level
• 18:11
  yet For those of us in the in the SME space, small and medium
• 18:15
  scale enterprises. Have you fixed your price while
• 18:18
  I leave it? Then the next thing you try and
• 18:20
  do is to fill up production capacity, right?
• 18:26
  Some of you, the problem that you have is not really the price
• 18:28
  per SE was because you're not doing enough enough runs at the
• 18:33
  end of the day. Let me give an example.
• 18:35
  So back in the day when some of us are waiting photographers,
• 18:39
  some of us were obsessing over the fact that OK, I'm only
• 18:42
  charging 250K. And then you see that your
• 18:45
  friend is charging 450 and then you want to increase your price
• 18:50
  to 450 or you're charging 250 and you think because of that,
• 18:57
  that's the reason why you're not getting enough work.
• 18:59
  But then you notice that some other guys charge you 150 and it
• 19:01
  seems to be busy all the time. Then you drop your price to 150
• 19:05
  instead of playing all these games.
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  IF250K was what you thought was a fair price in the beginning,
• 19:10
  keep it at 250. Then fill up your production
• 19:14
  capacity. If you're waiting photographer,
• 19:16
  that means you're working Thursday and Saturday.
• 19:19
  At least back when I was in the business, that's how they used
• 19:22
  to do it. Thursday for traditional, then
• 19:25
  Saturday for the main domain. Some people do Friday and
• 19:29
  Saturday. I never heard of Saturday and
• 19:31
  Sunday. So you're working two days a
• 19:34
  week if you're only getting one wedding a month.
• 19:38
  What you need to do first is fill up your production
• 19:40
  capacity. Try and see how like double down
• 19:43
  on your marketing, Double down on your sales until you can fill
• 19:47
  up four of those weeks. First week you're working,
• 19:50
  second week you're working. Third week you're working, 4th
• 19:52
  week you're working. After that you can now start
• 19:54
  playing price games but fill up your production capacity.
• 20:02
  Get good at sales and marketing. Make sure that your funnel is
• 20:05
  full first. After that you can start playing
• 20:09
  around with pricing. The reason why I make episodes
• 20:13
  like this is because too many of you, the first thing you touch
• 20:16
  is pricing. These my clients.
• 20:19
  To be honest, I'm not happy that we agreed on the game plan.
• 20:22
  We say we won't pursue 12 clients.
• 20:24
  Well, let's drop a list of about 50 people to start with.
• 20:28
  Let's go after them. Let's see how many we can turn
• 20:30
  into clients and now change the plan.
• 20:32
  I'm not happy, but that's what lots of people do.
• 20:37
  Let's drop the price, let them rush.
• 20:41
  Pricing isn't the only issue. The other issues involved and if
• 20:47
  you doubt what I'm saying, just try it, make your thing free.
• 20:52
  He will surprise you. Not everybody's going to take
• 20:55
  it. It will shock you.
• 20:57
  Not everybody's going to take it.
• 20:59
  Look at the offer that my client is doing one month free social
• 21:04
  media content. It is the kind of thing that me,
• 21:08
  if I was on social media, even if I don't need the content, I
• 21:12
  will say for free. You say yes why now hook me up.
• 21:17
  I'm not on social media but if I were I would tell them hook me
• 21:21
  up one more free but still people ain't biting.
• 21:27
  That's because price is not the only issue.
• 21:31
  So that's it and that's all for today.
• 21:34
  I am hoping that today I have reached a brother or a sister
• 21:39
  who is sitting down and who is wondering.
• 21:42
  I'm charging 15K for one. I'm not getting market.
• 21:45
  Should I start charging 13 five? My sister do not charge 13 five.
• 21:54
  IF16K was what you thought was a fair price when you started.
• 21:57
  Keep it at that 16 K. Let us now see whether you are
• 22:02
  targeting the right people. Are you marketing in the wrong
• 22:05
  neighborhoods? The copy that you use when
• 22:09
  you're promoting stuff on Instagram, the copy, the words,
• 22:12
  the text, what is it like? What is it like the images
• 22:15
  you're using? Is it compelling?
• 22:17
  The call to action that you have, Do you use a compelling
• 22:19
  call to action if you're going to market physically from
• 22:23
  neighborhood to neighborhood? Are you in the wrong
• 22:25
  neighborhoods, Abby? Are you in the wrong estate?
• 22:29
  Maybe you should stop trying to sell indicator and start trying
• 22:31
  to sell in VGC instead. Let's work on the targeting.
• 22:38
  Then after that, we can even be working on the conversions.
• 22:41
  Maybe it's that you're talking to 50 people out of every 50
• 22:45
  people one person buys. What is it that you're saying or
• 22:48
  not saying? How is it that you are handling
• 22:51
  the conversations or not having the conversations that are not
• 22:53
  causing more people to convert? Keep your price at 16 K.
• 22:57
  Let us see how you can be talking to 50 people and instead
• 23:01
  of doing business with one, let's see how you can do
• 23:03
  business with two, with three, with four.
• 23:07
  If you're only busy once a week, but you have whatever it is that
• 23:12
  you supply. Let's say you have the ability
• 23:14
  to be working 20 days a week. Let us see how quickly we can
• 23:17
  fill up that production capacity.
• 23:18
  Let's see how you quickly we can get busy at this 16 K.
• 23:23
  Let's see how quickly we can fill up 20 days.
• 23:26
  When we fill up the 20 days ahead, we can now start playing
• 23:29
  with price. You truly, truly, truly.
• 23:33
  You feel that you're too expensive and no problem, you
• 23:36
  have solved the sales and the marketing problem.
• 23:38
  If now you want to drop your price off, to drop your price to
• 23:41
  13 K because you think you're too expensive and you want to
• 23:44
  give more value to your clients, then go ahead.
• 23:46
  I won't argue with you. What you will find, most of you
• 23:50
  listen carely. What you will find most of you
• 23:54
  is that when you fill up your production price, yeah, your
• 23:58
  your production capacity, you will find that you are not
• 24:01
  charging enough. I repeat that some of you who
• 24:04
  will fill up your capacity, I'll find out that you are not
• 24:06
  charging enough. Like the gentleman that I spoke
• 24:09
  to was in the business of preparing CVS for people.
• 24:12
  When he filled up his production capacity, he realized that or
• 24:15
  more. I am not charging enough to stay
• 24:19
  in business because I'm working morning till night.
• 24:24
  I am now hiring my stepbrother and my step sister to help me at
• 24:28
  the end of the month. This is the only thing that we
• 24:30
  have. We gas to raise our price.
• 24:32
  I didn't tell him it's time to raise your price.
• 24:35
  He's the one that told me I have to raise my price.
• 24:38
  But guess what? He had solved the sales and the
• 24:41
  marketing problem and he has filled up production capacity.
• 24:48
  That's the kind of thing that will give you confidence because
• 24:52
  you can't see the customers. You can't see them.
• 24:55
  It is clear that you have solved your sales and marketing
• 24:59
  challenges. You're confident that you'll be
• 25:01
  able to find another customer. So you know that even if I raise
• 25:04
  my price from 22 to 27 and some people disappear, I was able to
• 25:11
  fill up my production capacity, I'll be able to fill up my
• 25:14
  calendar, I'll be able to fill up my funnel, I'll be able to
• 25:16
  fill up my work schedule again. So please, if there's any
• 25:22
  brother or sister listening now and this is the debate that
• 25:25
  you've been having in your head, should I drop my price from 19/5
• 25:30
  to 14/5 to see if I can get more customers?
• 25:33
  My brother, my sister, leave it, leave it.
• 25:38
  There are other things to solve 1st.
• 25:40
  And if you don't believe me, do what is my client is doing, make
• 25:46
  an announcement, tell everybody I'm doing these things free.
• 25:49
  You will see they even are free. Some people will still tell you.
• 25:54
  Let me think about it. Price is not the only issue.
• 25:58
  So that's it. And that's all for today.
• 26:00
  Remember, if you'd love to connect, you can call, send me a
• 26:03
  text message or WhatsApp message on 08064662140.
• 26:10
  And if you're ready for more content like this, then you are
• 26:12
  in luck because in whatever feed that you're listening to this
• 26:15
  podcast right now, whether it's Spotify or whether it's YouTube,
• 26:19
  we have over 1200 episodes here with practical insights that you
• 26:23
  can listen to. So after you're done, scroll,
• 26:28
  listen, but don't just listen. Take a pen and a paper, make
• 26:32
  some notes about things you want to change, things you want to
• 26:35
  apply. Apply.
• 26:36
  Give it a bit. It takes a while for some things
• 26:39
  to kick in. When it kicks in and you're
• 26:41
  making progress, let me know. It's one of the reasons why I
• 26:44
  give up my phone number. I love when people call back for
• 26:46
  testimonies. Somebody sent me a message today
• 26:52
  like, hey, you know, it's been a while since we spoke.
• 26:56
  This is the update on the chicken farm.
• 26:58
  I have X number of heads. I lost a couple.
• 27:01
  We're designing promos. We're going to start
• 27:04
  publicizing. We're going to start promoting
• 27:06
  soon. You know, I like hearing these
• 27:07
  sorts of things. This is what informs the
• 27:11
  podcast. This is part of what keeps me
• 27:13
  going. Yes.
• 27:14
  Those people who pay me money. Yeah, you also keep me going.
• 27:17
  But for those of you who don't pay me money, there's also a
• 27:19
  spiritual benefit. I like the fact that I'm putting
• 27:22
  out ideas. People are applying the ideas
• 27:24
  and they're seeing progress. That's the reason why that
• 27:29
  copper when she told me like she had done three straight months
• 27:33
  of business at 100 Ki was very happy. 100K month, 1100K month,
• 27:39
  2100K month 3. Some of you say what is 100K and
• 27:43
  yes, what is 100K? That's not money.
• 27:45
  But somebody who's on official salary of 75 K and she has
• 27:50
  already tasted the habit of making 100K by herself, her own
• 27:55
  money and she has done it for three months straight.
• 27:58
  I forget it. In four years time, where do you
• 28:00
  think she will be? What do you think the kind of
• 28:02
  woman that she will become? I mean, just is she the kind of
• 28:06
  person that somebody will throw notes in her face and they will
• 28:11
  destabilize her and she will shake no.
• 28:16
  So apply you make progress. Hit me up, let me know any
• 28:20
  questions ask I'm willing to ask.
• 28:22
  In fact, for some of you, that informs future episodes.
• 28:26
  Anyway, it's already 30 minutes, so let me not keep you guys for
• 28:28
  too long. I'll see you soon at the next
• 28:30
  episode.