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EP 22: Why Doing a Good Job Is the Whole Business Model with Mike McCormack · Spokes & Strategy: Marketing the Bicycle

• MikeMac: Customer is getting an extension of who I am and what I care about. And I care about us being cool to each other. I care about sportsmanship. I care about not throwing litter in the backcountry. I care about treating this place as the cathedrals that they are rightfully described as. And I think by not caring about culture, we create it and it's sort of an echo of the things that are important to us. And that's been resonant. Brandon Morphew: Welcome to Spokes and Strategy, Marketing the Bicycle with Brandon Morphew and Chris Melman of Miso Partners. Today we're talking about what it takes to build an event people care about and keep delivering it without losing the reasons it mattered in the first place. Mike McCormick is the founder and race director of the Breck Epic, a six-day mountain bike stage race in Brecken Ridge, Colorado. He also includes youth cycling, trail access initiatives, and communications business as his work. In his pre interview questionnaire, Mike wrote that he eventually realized doing a good job was the job. Today we're gonna unpack what that means when there are riders to care about, partners to serve, and a business to sustain. Mike, welcome. MikeMac: Well, thanks for having me. When when it comes out of your mouth it sounds a lot different th than when I type it. It sounds legitimate. It's so great to hear it through that lens once in a while. Brandon Morphew: It's it's very much l legitimate and I and I think reputation proceeds you. I I I've been a a fan of the race. I think it's I've I've heard nothing but but really, really good things about the event. my first question to you is sort of taking you to your relationship with the bike and and are you riding, what are you riding these days? A ride that is your favorite? Is there a trusty steed that you go to in the in the stable? MikeMac: I'm a Yeti SB one forty guy. I have a long history with Yeti and you know they're the really good looking girl next door. Just just just down in golden and like their nuts matches our nuts perfectly and it helps that, you know, from a a form factor, they're just drop dead gorgeous, right? Whether you get a black one or a turquoise one. And they've been just so phenomenally supportive of us. We've had a string of really good partners. We've only had two bike partners in the I think twenty year history of the race, Santa Cruz and Yeti. So I feel like we're we're doing great. And both of those companies have been phenomenal to us. I'm in the meat of my production season right now. So someone asked me this question yesterday about what my mileage looked like. It's awful. It's terrible. I'm walking the dog a lot. I'm I'm definitely getting my steps in. Because we have a blind dog. but my time is coming and and where I live, sort of on the western slope of Colorado in the high desert, like the season here is really long. So I'll start getting into some contemplative rides, which is where my best thinking happens pretty soon. We have one more event this weekend and then We have some reporting to finish for the Breck Epic. It's sponsorship season where we're reloading relationships, you know, renewing partnerships and bringing some new ones on board. So it's people ask after the race ends, are you so relieved it's over? I'm like, pfft, there's a whole warehouse that needs to be, you know, unscrewed and a semi that needs to be unloaded and then a little production trailer. So we're still in the meat of our season. Am I riding? Yeah, no, but I'm staying busy. And like my time's coming. Brandon Morphew: I like it. I like it. Yeah, it's beautiful country. I I I I cherish my opportunities to ride in Colorado. It's a fantastic state and you're very you're in Colorado, correct? Yeah. MikeMac: I am. I'm in Eagle, which is about an hour west of Brecken Ridge. We've been here for a dozen years. Brandon Morphew: Yeah. Fantastic. So running events. It's gotta be hard. I've played my role in my history, you know, worn different caps, but I I take me back to I think it was this year. it's August thirteenth, Wheeler stage, and you have a weather risk and take us to that morning. what information are you getting? Who are you listening to? And You know, when did you know that the answer had to be no? MikeMac: wheel is a tough one. And when you produce events at this altitude, you know, as a as a resident of someone at this altitude, you know what the risks are. You know that getting caught in a storm in Florida has a different set of consequences than getting caught in a storm above ten thousand feet. And you know Death in Florida means a lightning strike or drowning. here it means, you know, freezing to death slowly. possibly also a lightning strike. And we are pretty dialed into the weather. You know, the pack that you ride with here is very different than the one you ride with in Wisconsin, for example. so you you have emergency blankets, you have something to start a fire with, you have several layers in your pack and that's for a lunch ride. And like we're at Wheeler stage goes up to twelve thousand five hundred feet. It's big and it's an exposed ridge line for ten miles. Like you like there's not a tree in sight. it's tough good ride. So, you know, you know what the factors are going in and you stay tuned into information channels and weather is is, you know, all across the board. But you have resources that you rely on. We went through something similar this year, weirdly on the same stage. And you just know what your go, no, go point is. So for the year you're talking about, we had the stage goes briefly south and then goes north for those ten miles. And then it comes back south again for the finish. And we had a storm creeping up and we knew this was coming for days. We had it coming in from the south. We thought that if we started the stage a little bit earlier, we could get out in front of it and get people down safely. And even that is risky. and so you know, we had this emergency plan in place since we started the race in two thousand nine. Like like you always have exit points mapped out. Like like so that storm came in quite more quickly than we anticipated and we had the entire field out on course. So we radioed up to the last bailout point and said, Hey, you know, everyone that's past you can go. Everyone that comes to your point needs to come down. I mean there is an access road that goes up through the ski resort. It's our only stage that that s sort of skirts the summer permitting boundary. And it got so brutal up there that the volunteer had to leave. and we sent the half the field down and it was in the middle of a sponsorship conversation, you know, at the base area while all this is going on. you know, historically most of those things are real good. That one wasn't going well. It it was you had a weird energy and sort of had I think the the words uttered to me by the by the person I was talking with or is this it? And you know, we we're in the middle of the stage. Like everyone's out on course. The energy's pretty low. Like the person who said that technically was right. And my response I think was yes, this is it. And at the moment I'm field rescuing two hundred and fifty people. So like the medical thing takes precedent over where the banners are and where the people are. Like we gotta get people down safely. So what are our factors? I think being really pragmatic about what the weather can do, making hard decisions and then standing by You know, we've had to cancel a few stages over the years. We canceled one this year. It's a pretty rare thing. But people think, Wow, you know, what a tough decision. Pfft That's not a tough decision. Like these are people's lives. So we didn't get to ride our bikes for that day this year. And then that day in I think twenty thirteen, you know, half the field didn't get to ride their bikes for half the day. But They got to go home to their loved ones and put their feet up next to the T V and their their condo. So it was the right choice. And operationally those things are pretty black and white. You have a little bit of wiggle room, a few risks that you're willing to take, but every race producer considers the consequences. People could die. And man, it's just not worth it. So Brandon Morphew: Yeah, I think cyclings inherently has that that component there and and I think part of it is what we enjoy, right? I mean that is we like living on the edge and and and ha riding fast, taking chances. Like that's part of the joy. And I think, yeah, there is a there's a controlled component component there. I think, you know, you're doing it within a framework, right? And then when that framework breaks, yeah, i it's scary. thinking about like what's harder. Is it harder to like make the decision? It doesn't sound like it's that hard, like you're making i or is it harder to communicate the decision to all the the eager and and hopeful hearts that are lining up on the on the starting line and MikeMac: You know, there in life there are hard conversations that you need to have, whether it's with children or parents or business associates, you know, and and we're all faced with those. Both of the things you just described, making the decision and communicating it, I mean, from a technical standpoint, communicating it in real time to six hundred people is challenging when half of them are above you know they're twelve thousand feet and up. but you have ways, you have communications channels. Neither one of those things are are really that hard. You just you have to give clear expectations. And I think the worst thing you could do is leave people out there sort of dangling in in the nether, wondering what's going on. Tell them what what you're gonna do, tell them what the expectation is of them, you know, apologize if you need to, if you've you've made a bad call, but always sort of defer to a conservative plan of action, especially at this altitude. And most people are grateful. There's some regret for people in Wheeler specifically who love that experience. But like our experience this year in twenty was it, twenty twenty six? Yes it is. Brandon Morphew: Yeah. MikeMac: you know, we cancelled the stage and people were bummed, but good naturedly bummed. They were glad to be safe, glad that someone had taken their security seriously, and we lived a fight another day and it made the other five stages that much sweeter. Brandon Morphew: You you have you shared this hospitality experience, working in r at resorts, working in restaurants, working with bike brands, which I think does, you know, have like this hospitality. How how do you think this has impacted the the the Breck epic? it has been communicated to me and there have been these, you know, pretty awesome vibes that have come from it. You know, people have said some pretty amazing things. it's not something I've sought out over, you know, like I like doing bike mountain bike races. It's it's kind of popping up on my radar now. It wasn't before, but I'm just curious, is there anything you can point to that's sort of like driven this you know, thinking about the rider, thinking about the the person in the seat that's experiencing this event, do you think there's something that makes your events different or something that makes you different when you're when you're thinking about these things? MikeMac: that's a good question. I don't think about that a lot. And on the other hand I think about it all the time. I don't benchmark our what we do qualitatively. Like I'm not trying to beat someone or be better than someone. I think and and that's a lesson learned over time. Like with the the race is an extension of our staff and what what they want to present to the athlete, the competitor, the the attendee, the supporter, and like doing a good job really is it. It's a pretty it's easy an easy to remember business model. I'm not sure that it moves all the levers that I'd love for it to move. you know, sponsorship relationships are are always tough. Sponsorship's always challenging and really taking care of people isn't so terribly marketable, in the micro sense. In the macro way, like people who hear that we're pretty good to people, like that's good marketing. That's that's good communications. I do look at other events, you know, and someone makes a better hat than us, holy shit, does that light my fire? Right now, just like on one hand I'm like, it's a sweet hat, nice job. And on the other hand, like I start twirling my mustache. How can we do that better? I think races are ex an extension of of the people who produce them. And we have tried to be a lot of things over our our almost twenty year history. We've been a high end UCI race. We've been a big purse race. We've you know, I wanted the race to matter in the national fabric of of things. And as a fan, you know, you look at stage races and and what better drama t to watch unfold is you know, a big bike race over the course of multiple days. And Or a little bit of all those things. But I think the surprise and delight component, you know, there's a book called Unreasonable Hospitality. that's also a part of he's an executive consultant in the the T V series The Bear. You know, they have that budget set aside for surprise and delight. And when I started reading the book at the suggestion of Ben Coates, who's the CEO of Canyon Americas and and an epic vet and just a super delightful human, I read it thinking, I could really cross-pollinate what we do with this functional expert. And the more I read it, the more I thought, well, this is what we already do. Like and it was just it was amazingly validating. I turned my brain off about trying to be better than another event, trying to compare us to them. You know, my wife says constantly, comparison is the thief of joy, which is true. Then it's also supremely motivating to look at someone else who's doing a good job and say, Man, we gotta up our game. And we talk about being good to people as kind of our business model and our stock and trade. And I think that That's a really good overarching goal. You have to hit technical merit in a thousand different ways, which most people don't see. but it all adds up to, wow, the the venue looks great. It's because someone made a thousand decisions to make that venue look very pink and very black and lined up just so. The food was amazing at the aid stations. Pfft, that's, you know, five thousand decisions with the entire aid station crew the finish line and recovery teams. It matters to to think about all those tiny details and to create a fully realized ecosystem that ends up with someone feeling like Their experience mattered to us. I I use this metaphor a lot. It's about having a guest at your house, like a friend from college who's coming to Colorado to skate. They've never been to your resort before. They've they're coming here to mountain bike. They've they've never been to your trails before. Like you're ticking off like what you want to take them to, what you want to show them. You want them to go home with love in their heart. And we talk a lot about having The beer you like in the fridge when you get here. It's that simple. It's it's anticipation of need, trying to deliver as much as we can for the price tag, which is not insignificant. We had a conversation with the parent of a young athlete a couple of years ago. And he's like, I don't feel like I'm getting a lot for my money. It the conversation you have in your brain is very different than the one you have in this case it was email and this is a bike industry guy who is saying this to us. And in my brain I was like, I've got a hundred medical people out on course keeping your daughter safe. That's where your money's going. And he also wasn't totally satisfied. And and you have to let some of those things go and feel good about the job you're doing. And you also need to be pretty objectively critical about you know, sending out a promoter survey, net promoter score survey and being okay with what you hear. Some of it's off target and doesn't wire neatly to your operational reality and and some of it you really need to think about no matter how difficult it is to read. We want to do a good job And we always need to challenge ourselves to reflect on the job that we're doing. Are we doing the best job we can do? Do we need to rewire something? Like what's going in the surprise and delight bucket for twenty twenty seven? We started working on twenty twenty seven in twenty twenty five. Like the the runway's that long. Brandon Morphew: Yeah. MikeMac: And I say a lot, you know, when I give us a C plus almost every year. And I realize how shitty that was to the staff. I give me a C plus, you know, and that's a good year. the staff normally gets an A. They're tff out amazing. and me, like I've got a list of a thousand things every year that I know I need to do better. it boils down to that, Brandon. Like care Brandon Morphew: Yeah. I MikeMac: about the job you do. Brandon Morphew: I well, I think it's fantastic. And I'm I'm curious, like, have you made intentional choices around culture. So like if you think about obviously like you're trying to create a vibe, you've got an event, and then you've got people, right? And I'm sure some are volunteers. There's many that are paid. There's this sort of like mix of all sorts of types of folks that are engaged at events. Have you made like some real thoughtful decisions around like what kind of operation we are and and because I I think about people that listen and they're in different spaces, manufacturers and and I I do think culture is like a really hard thing to get. You kind of know it when you experience it. But then like, you know, the puppet master pulling the strings, that's it's a hard place to sit. it's hard to navigate that. how you make the sausage is is hard. It's so I'm just curious if you have spent time like thinking about the the people, the places, what makes up your your team and and your your your business. MikeMac: No. I don't think about that at all. b but and yes and and yet our lived reality is that we're thinking about it all the time, but not in a it's not tied to an outcome. Like we're not trying to build culture as you know, this is a part of what we need to do at this event. for better or worse. Like Customer is getting an extension of who I am and what I care about. And I care about us being cool to each other. I I care about sportsmanship. I care about not throwing litter in the backcountry. I care about treating this place as as the cathedrals that they're they are rightfully described as. And I think by not caring about culture, we create it and it's it's sort of an echo of the things that that are important to us. And that's been resonant. I mean, I think that we we're probably like compared to the Cape Epic, we're pretty informal. But man, there's real bike racing going on out there. And our riders are real safe. And and from a production standpoint, like we're hitting some pretty high notes. and while there's sort of this veneer of approachability and and inclusivity, like behind the scenes, there's a lot of really hardwired systems. and there's a curtain between the customer and us. So creating culture like in the the like in in Bull Durham, I have no idea where the ball's going. Like I just have learned to trust that I care about people having a good time and being safe and us being organized. And that creates the culture. I think, you know, listening to people, being open to criticism, not believing your own press when it gets too good and like having that fourth liners mentality, that's our culture. And I think trying to f force culture down people's throats, trying to create it is inauthentic. maybe maybe we could do a better job of that. but being decent to people, I think, is our culture. Being organized, being safe, being a little bit quirky, having We could be a little bit more hardwired in our messaging, I think, as was pointed out to me by Racer this year. He's like, You guys seem not that serious and then I get here and everything is completely dialed. He's laughing. He was like, like, I got so much more than I expected from your newsletters. And I was like, Yeah, man, I try to control that and like I sometimes have no not as much control as I like over what comes out here. Brandon Morphew: There's a there's a quote that I I often recite and it it's if you think you've communicated something enough, say it ten times more. Like that's that's sort MikeMac: Ha ha ha. Brandon Morphew: of the the rule. This is one of my my blind spots. and you have a communications business. So I'm just curious, like if we shift over to sort of brand, like away from culture into brand, is that part of the business established and defined? is that something you think about like how does Breck Epic fit into this race ecosystem? You know, w we are like looking at Cape Epic, but but where where do we fit in? And are you thinking about like what are the what are the values that we bring as a race and as an event and are those the type of conversations you're having as you're planning in twenty twenty five, thinking about twenty twenty seven. MikeMac: I think, you we've always s sort of wondered where we are in the landscape of events and you know, the Cape Epic is a different thing. That's an Ironman event, it's got four or five times more competitors I think than we do. Like it's a big big thing, the production values off the charts. I think if people are coming expecting this to be sort of a cartoony race, like like They're quickly convinced that they were wrong, you know, three miles into stage one. Like like this is hard and you're gonna earn your way to the finish line and there's no faking that. We fit into the culture of stage racing on merit. Everyone is their own thing. In terms of how we communicate that. I think we all get better at those things. I look at things that I wrote twenty years ago and I wish, you know, it embarrasses me that they're out there. you get better at those things. I look at A lot of people probably get Heather Cox Richardson's, you know, daily emails, which are phenomenal. She's a historian who who looks at what's going on now through the lens of history. And she's amazing and an incredible writer and she has a huge team and and I keep wanting to send her a note. It's like, Hey, use headings. Your transitions between subject topics are brutal. And I also love you. Like I don't want her to take it as as a criticism and then I think, Well, she gets ten thousand emails a day. She's never gonna read this. But I do think, you know, knowing sort of my my proclivity to to ramble on in a newsletter format, which is how we communicate a lot of things, that I I have morphed into making it more digestible. We'll publish, you know, here's what's in this newsletter up front. And that's sort of a professional communication, you know piece of structure. It matters to me where the comments go, I think. There's a lot of made up words, right? Because we we sort of communicate conversationally. And I have worked also with young writers in helping them sort of edit their their social posts, for example. you have to know what the rules are to be to be to fluently break them, habitually. And in communications like You know what people need to know, who, what, where, why, and how. And also in PR, what's new? And I try to boil it down to that a lot. Segment the audience up front. Hey, if you're racing, you need to know this. If if you're just reading this, like this doesn't concern you unless you're bored. So trying to also meet people where they are and save their time. On the PR side, you know, our our our the break epic and some of our other events I think die on the vine. where where my professional skill set isn't applied to my own backyard as much as it should be. like that's for paying clients, right? Not for me. so it gets b it's gotten better, I think, like like being more professional in how we communicate. I probably swear a little bit less than I did fifteen years ago, just because I'm a different person than I was fifteen years ago. I'm trying to train a seventeen year old and a twenty year old to use the F word a little bit less and modeling that behavior is is probably the best way to do that or the way to do it without being a hypocrite. I love communications. I stand in awe of of people who are just elite at it. Like I know enough to recognize greatness and brilliance. And also that I'm a layman. You know, I'm a bricklayer. And but I can lay bricks pretty well if I remember to follow the rules and my basic rule is respect everyone's time, you know? If you're gonna babble on, maybe try not to do that. And and and also if you are gonna do it, for the love of God, give section headings. Brandon Morphew: I I'm I'm gonna I don't know if I know Heather Cox Richardson, but I'm gonna subscribe to the newsletter. and that's me being transparent about my ignorance and and I'm I'm sure I'll enjoy the newsletter very much. I wanna shift into some of the You know, some of the challenges and it if you think about the the the business of racing. And so we you you mentioned, you know, the sponsorship piece. You know, that's important and and the attendance to athletes coming and you know, that's important. it's like there's probably stages. It's not one thing, you know, things aren't binary in life, right? Like that we we want our brain wants things to be black and white, but there's this beautiful kaleidoscope of colors around us everywhere we go. What are you working on right now? What's the big challenge that you're thinking about in the in the, you know, current iteration, whether it's it's the the Breck Epic or it's other races that you're you're putting on. What what are you wrestling with right now? MikeMac: Well, I I think you know, the Breck Epic kinda consumed the PR business. It's like just sort of gradually gobbled up everything and and while I still do PR, it's in a very low key way, where it w used to be for product PR in the outdoor world. You know, mostly cycling. Now it's I do campaign PR and strategy. I do some messaging for candidates. I I work on community initiatives and and that for me is much more cup filling. not that cycling PR wasn't, I loved it. I absolutely loved it, but I also didn't feel like I was really, you know making a mark on the world, like like trying to make it a better place. And for me this was a a way that that fulfilled that desire in me. what we're working on for twenty twenty seven are our partnerships. You know, my passion is still mountain biking. And I I think, you know, we saw the UCI and and USA cycling for years, you know, sort of treat mountain biking as the middle child. It didn't need much care and feeding and and I think there's a little bit of that going on right now and yet it is plugging along, you know, like forging its own independence. Like a look around at races. Racers are doing really well with mountain bikes in them. I think a lot of races are, well no matter what the discipline is, maybe not criterion or or road racing, which is hard right now. We're gonna keep flying the mountain biking flag, like the big backcountry experience. Like there's not a lot of that stuff anymore. And I think aspirationally when people think of mountain biking, they see mountain ranges in front of them and a narrow ribbon of trail, like going to that that far horizon. That's what we're giving people. And we're we got lucky that we got a a really great race format in at the right time and we trying to honor the difficulty it is to to earn those permits every year. So sponsorship is challenging. It always is, you know, specifically if you're sort of that middle child. And so we have to deserve it. And when we talk about earning the loyalty of our customers, we have to do the same thing with the bike industry. We're pretty lucky with the partners we have, whether that's Shimano or Yeti pff, Orange Seal, right? Like I don't know what we did to deserve John Vargas's love, but we have it. And that list goes on. Scratch Labs, Costelli, it's locally, you know, some at St. Anthony's and Common Spirit, that's like I'm I'm reading a tag. I would love us to have some some bigger partnerships for us to integrate with a technology partner, for example. Like we've been trying to we've been chasing that for twenty years. And like there's no event that's more map and data driven than ours. And we have yet to figure out how to make that work, to deliver product that that is compelling for the wahoos and the the Garmans of the world. We've had some conversations, but you know, they've all sort of fizzled out and I think respecting that that we're not ideal for them, or at least not in that moment, is part of figuring out how to be ideal and and at some point deciding are we a good fit? Should we keep firing effort down this well? And We have other things that we can improve on. You know, the experience of partners, the expo on site. It's it's a ghost town from eight until one, you know, which is not conventional for an expo. But there's some things we're doing to really change that moving forward. So improving the product across the board If you want be loved, you know, figure out how to deserve it. Like if I haven't signed a sponsorship, I don't, you know, I don't Captain Dan, you know, I you know, raging at the clouds, like, why don't they love me? You can't force people to love you. if you do that too much, right? That's illegal. so figure Brandon Morphew: Yeah. MikeMac: out how to be more attractive. And that's that's where we are every year. And I think we're in a neat place right now in terms of reimagining our venue. grading that that true nexus, which is a little challenging where we are right now. still good, but it could be great. And greatness is the goal and delivering value for those partners is the goal. And trusting that there's some real smart people out there and nobody functioning at our level of the industry is going to be sold anything. I'm not gonna convince you of anything. You're not probably not gonna convince me of anything. The best we can hope for is that we have an exchange of ideas and you convince yourself. And you know, the Marketing folks at hammer. And think, man, that's a beautiful race. Like we could really do some neat brand extension there. When they do, we're right here. And that that's not just them, it's multiple categories. So I'm advocating for mountain biking. It is not, you know, the prettiest girl at at the discipline dance in cycling right now. Which is fine, I fucking love that. Right? That is so attractive to me as a a hold my beer moment. You know, there's being told you can't do something is different than being told that you're not allowed to do something. And if people say, you can't make mountain biking beautiful or presentable or palatable I love that. At the end of the day, I really need to make six hundred riders and a dozen sponsors happy in the community. And if I've done that, everything else will fall into place. Brandon Morphew: Yeah, I my head's going a couple of different places. I think mountain biking in general, just as a as a discipline, is very well positioned for the reality of cycling, which is it's scary on the road, it's scary around cars, and you know, from a participation point of view, it's actually a really you know, it's dangerous. if you're a mountain biker, you've broken something or pulled something or or you know, bruised something or, you know, got a concussion, that that's all real stuff. And I think it's it's very well positioned for this, you know, kind of what's the reality in cycling right now, which is that you know, there's dangerous drivers and and there's a lot of underfunded infrastructure. But I also am very interested in the way that you've worked with the community I want to say It's rinse and repeat. Not everywhere is as epic as Breckenridge, right? That's not you can't just everyone can't just have that in their backyard. But, you know, a lot of people, I'm in just in s just outside of Boston, you know, ten minutes, five minute drive and I can ride my bike to trails. There's lots of trails around me. And I think most metropolitan areas have that, whether that people know it or not. I'm just curious, like what what what have you done? what do you find that works well in in this contribution space, in this lane. MikeMac: I have spent some time figuring out, you know, what what the guardrails are for where we can be effective. Someone took us to task, seems like I hold a lot of grudges. I really don't. but like, you know, why don't you have an inner city initiative? And I was like, We we can't be all things to all people and and I have to figure out, you know, what what needles can we reasonably move and This is a pretty expensive race and we try to make it accessible to people who maybe don't have access to it based on money. Like there's a bunch of ways to do that. It's important to cultivate that that younger generation of riders. we've we've seen like like bikes are real expensive, which is limiting. You know, there's not a lot of twenty-five year olds who are showing up on in an Audi Q seven with a hundred thousand dollars worth of bikes on the back. Like that's a forty-five year old's game. And we have to be aware of that. And so planting seeds, making sure that that kids and families enter the sport safely, that bears fruit. We saw it with Mountain Bike Little League that we started, I think back in two thousand, before the you know, the the famous cease and desist letter from Major League Baseball. we we we have witnessed it with the Colorado High School League, we've witnessed it with NYCA, like getting kids on bikes has this tsunami like butterfly effect. that if you get a kid on a bike, you get a family invested. And all of a sudden there's this ecosystem of it's not just a bike, it's a helmet and socks and sealant. And we've always been really interested in cultivating riders, not necessarily racers. I think the industry we get a little We get a little laser focused on performance in podiums and what we we could be maybe a little more attentive to is people who buy things at retail. which which by extension means people who maybe don't put on a number plate. or if they do, they're putting it on for something big and experiential and your time is less important than the accomplishment. which I think Gravel does extraordinarily well. Like they they build community and and You know, while we compete against them, how amazing is it that that discipline has reinvigorated cycling? You could say the exact same thing about Lance Armstrong's string of victories in France. Like he re reinvigorated cycling. You know, he was a man, a Rubicon, you know, a point that that you will never go back. It's important to do good work. It's important to be relevant in the space. I think when we're talking about the backcountry experience in Summit County in particular, like that's our patch of grass. And we want to celebrate the collaborative nature of I think the three land management agencies, in this case, the Summit County Open Space, Breck Open Space and the Forest Service, who've just quietly Gone about the work of doing good work for over almost 40 years. Like that is the platinum standard of land management. Like managing essentially was a series of super fun sites, you know, old mining stuff, just you know, leaching chemicals into the watershed, into this this hive of interconnected trails that really is a draw worldwide. There's no high alpine trail network like it in the world, in width and breadth and connectivity. It didn't happen. by accident. It happened because people cared about preserving it and just quietly put their heads down and and got to work. They're still doing that. They there are groups around that county who like I talk about I'm planning for twenty twenty seven and that started almost a year ago. They've been planning for stuff that's gonna take place in twenty thirty and they started in twenty twenty. It's incredible. So that's also I think what we try to communicate that let's not take these things for granted our access Let's treat this place, you know, with the reverence that it deserves. And also let's give a tip of our our caps to the people who made it happen and support them as best we can. Forest Service, for example, has been you know, they went through the waste, fraud and abuse cycle, you know, with this iteration of the the administration in DC. I've been working with the forward service for thirty years. I have yet to see waste, fraud, or abuse at that level. That is the hardest working, most underfunded group of people and Well, you know, those Forest Service people deserve to be cut. I was Really? That's what it looks like, you know, from your corporate scene in Wisconsin? Because that's not what it looks like from dealing with them for thirty years here in Colorado. It looks like the poor got poorer. And I think we just try to make people aware of that. So kids and community and access Those are the things. And it does tie back to culture. The things that you care about I think sketch a pretty decent picture of who you are, what matters. And that's also why I don't have to put a lot of thought into the act of creating culture. I think culture is is a natural extension and it's like you know this probably from your day job. You do your best work with the stuff that you love, you know, that lights your fire. I love the job they've done. I love seeing a little kid in a dopey helmet, right? like you can really impact someone's life by turning them onto a bicycle. You can really enrich them for years by by having them understand what went into making this trail network great. Brandon Morphew: changed my life. The the freedom, you know, the the feeling of of being able to go anywhere and and move like you're flying. It's it's just a it's epic. It really is. I want you to tell me about Superloop series. What is it? Why does it why is it in the world? MikeMac: Well, it started under the heading of comparison, it got in wind of some larger production companies coming to look at some of, you know, w what I probably mistakenly consider my venues, my mountain towns. And I know that we will do a more thoughtful job than than some of these folks. And so it started as sort of a box out maneuver. Like I don't want competitor A in this spot, so I'm gonna create an event there. and then I also sort of like that's a terrible motivation. So we're looking at Steamboat and Vail and like we started with Jeff Westcott twenty five years ago, the Firecracker Fifty, which is one still one of the coolest, like like big days in the saddle on a mountain bike ever. It's just a neat experience. We're trying to recreate that format but in a non-competitive way. Like a weekend full of like riding on big routes, but that are supported with medical and course marking and aid stations to allow people who might not be able to tackle a six hour ride because you have to carry too much, turn it into a four and a half hour ride with their friends at a non competitive pace and then surround it with kick ass margaritas and burritos and feed people and entertain them and so The working concept is that there's not number plates involved. That this is for riders and they may be racers, but this is for women, for example, who want to go out on a big ride with their friends and be supported and have a weekend on a mountain bike. And Vale and Steamboat are pretty cool destinations. it's not written in stone yet because getting those permits and they have to be the right courses, it's challenging and it should be. we're like a dog creeping on the rug, you know, one part after another. And we're making progress and I I love that we're sort of extending into creating big events that cater to riders. that are festivals in a way that are attractive to the field marketing teams in the bike industry. And it's maybe not a conventional demo, but an opportunity to really break bread with people for two and a half days. Which I think is where some of the really, really resonant brand building gets done in the bike industry. And then they're also, like you talked about the interconnectedness of things earlier. Like events are ecosystems that pull in marketing and branding and athletes and consumers, but they also pull in that that transactional business at the brick and mortar level. Like, are we selling more bikes? Probably we're part of that. We're like we're not directly responsible for it. Are we selling more sealant? hell yes we are. Right? Are we selling more brake pads? I can guarantee you we're selling a ton of brake pads. so all those things are related and there seems to be a gap in the market right now in Colorado bigger rides that have a little bit more support but don't sort of venture into the race territory. And again, like gravel does a great job of that. They're big rides. Are they races? Yeah. For the people out front, probably yes. For the you know, the the bricklayers in the middle, they're not. Those are rides with friends. And so we'll see what happens. I like where we are right now. There's a bunch of meetings on the books to make things happen. We have some engaged partners and the rubber's gonna hit the road at the permitting deadline, which is February fifteenth. Brandon Morphew: Fantastic. So if someone's listening and they want to support what you're building, what's the most useful thing that they can do to help? MikeMac: question. Signing up for the breakup exactly is at the top of that list. Brandon Morphew: Okay. All right. MikeMac: like we're doing really well. I mean w our sort of golden registration period is in the the the day immediately following this year's race is signals the the biggest, most intense registration period for the following year. We're outpacing like it's always really good in September, like the blue back half of August and and all of September. It's nuts right now. Like we're three quarters full. That's never happened before. so what can they do to help? Man. Tell a little kid who's riding their bike by you that you love their helmet. Like like you just made that kid's day. Like like continue to get people stoked about cycling and by sort of nudging people along into a happier mind space or encouraging them to be a part of cycling, you help us all, not just me. If you're riding your bike on the road and you're too abreast, maybe think about how much anxiety that produces for people behind you and and understand that we can be part of the problem as well and we could be maybe a little more conscientious. I think there's five percent of us that are ruining it for for ninety five percent of us. And some of that is is contentiousness. A lot of it I is situational awareness and it isn't malicious at all. What can you do to help me? Go ride your bike. You know, whether it's a recumbent Brandon Morphew: Yeah. MikeMac: or a unicycle, I don't care. You're one of us. Is it c a commuter, Brandon Morphew: I love it. MikeMac: an e-bike? Doesn't matter to me. be a rider and be stoked about it. Brandon Morphew: Mike Mack, thank you so much, Mike McCormick, for being here. founder of The Breck Epic race director of the Breck Epic. we'll leave some links in the show notes. you can find the race through the Breck Epic website and on Instagram at Breck Epic. And really genuinely really really nice to speak with you with you, Mike. I thank you for your time and and it's been great to get to know you a little bit better. So thank you so much. MikeMac: Brandon, thank you so much for the opportunity to have this chat. It's been a lot of fun and thank you for for letting me ramble on as I tend to do. and come to Colorado and see us.