Latest / The ACL Athlete Podcast / 234 | When Sh*t Happens in ACL Rehab: What to Do (and What NOT to Do)

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234 | When Sh*t Happens in ACL Rehab: What to Do (and What NOT to Do) · The ACL Athlete Podcast

• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome everyone to the ACL Athlete Podcast.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: This is the podcast where we talk about everything related to the ACL, whether that's the injury itself, the rehab process, return to sport, and more.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Dr.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Ravi Patel, performance physical therapist and coach.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Between myself and fellow guests and experts, you'll learn through the lens of the patient, the healthcare professional, and the coach.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: The goal of this podcast is to equip you, the athlete, with the education to make the best informed decision about your care and your ACL journey.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for joining.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: Now let's dive into today's episode.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: What is up, team, and welcome back to another episode on the ACL Athlete Podcast.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: So today we are doing an episode that I honestly can't believe I haven't done an episode on this.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I've been thinking about this a lot between the ACLers we work with on the team as we meet each week.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about our ACLers' cases, what's going on, what happens, even things that are going on in their life.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so we want to talk through this as a team and make sure that we are able to give the best advice and game plan to make sure these athletes are moving along in their process and just knowing that life is complex.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: And the other side of this is also just through my own personal journey through rehab.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: And for those of you who might be new or who might not have catched previous episodes on this, but some background.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I pull a lot from that information, which resonates with this episode today.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: But more recently, I had a hip procedure on my hip where they had to basically put some metal plates around the ends of it because I was having some early arthritis.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so it has been quite a journey and a pretty extensive surgery at the end of March.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so I've been doing my rehab and recovering from that since then.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so that leads me into the topic for today, which is shit happens.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: And excuse my language, I try to keep this pretty clean here.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: Since I have a variety of aged listeners, yes, I can be vulgar at times, but I try to, you know, retain that and try not to put that out there because I just don't think that I have to do that all the time to get the point across.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: But for today, I think that there's no really good way to really say this, make it hit home.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: Besides, shit just happens, y'all.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: It happens.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: And it happens in life, it happens in ACL rehab, it happens in hip surgery and rehab.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a thing that we will inevitably deal with.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: We have fires that come up that we have to put out or just manage to make sure they don't turn into bigger fires, right?
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: And it just happens, right?
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's just the way that we operate with just this complex world, complex bodies, with just so many different factors in life, depending on what age you are, what kind of uh different space you're in in terms of whether you're in school or work, or maybe not doing either of those, maybe it's family-based, maybe it's traveling.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: There's so many different factors that play into just what is life that things are just gonna happen.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so the thing that really triggered this is actually this week, um, two days ago, I strained my groin for the third time doing something super simple.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: I've done it before, and it was just a position that my hip was just like, nope, I'm good.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it's something that I had done before, and immediately my brain was like, Cool, another delay, another setback.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, man.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: And the thing was is that it wasn't even this big jump, but sometimes it just happens.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I know a lot of you can probably relate to this as you go through this process, it just happens, right?
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: And most importantly, it's okay to give yourself some grace.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I wanted to look back and be like, man, I should have known this or I should have done this differently.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: And the thing is, is that we will always look in hindsight to blame ourselves, and I'm sure some of you guys will do that.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the question you have to ask is Were you following the game plan or the guidance you've been given, or did you go off-route and decide to do more or do more consistently over time?
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: And that added up to being too much, and you reached a threshold or a breaking point, and your tolerance was like not built up to that point.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: And that's something we have to understand if we put ourselves in, right?
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: There's no one to blame but ourselves, but in majority of cases, it can just be doing our training and our rehab, right?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: And just knowing that sometimes there's nothing to blame and knowing that shit just happens, and that is just moving along the path, doing what we've been told, and then you know, it flares up, the knee flares up.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: You might get a tweak in your hamstring or your quad pulls, right?
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: Or maybe you flare up your front of the knee, the anterior knee pain, right?
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: It just happens, right?
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: And we want to create a story around this, and yes, it is important for us to understand this, especially from the rehab standpoint, um, especially us as the physical therapists and coaches to play detective in knowing what has happened.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: And the thing is, is though, we just want to make sure that we understand what potentially triggered this, but then also just normalizing that things like this happen as we're trying to rebuild something and stress something, right?
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: And with ACL rehab, we know there is a lot to stress and build up.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so to give you guys some practical advice on what I did in the moment, once I felt that tweak, right?
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: I noticed that it happened.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: It was like a sharp, kind of weird sensation that I didn't love.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm familiar with it, I know what it is.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: And most of you can probably tell whenever you are off your baseline, especially if there's an incident like that.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: But even whenever you may wake up and you're like, wow, my knee is like a little bit more grumpy today, right?
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so the baseline is going to be important in this.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: But when we look at what I did from the practical standpoint, the first thing was I just want to make sure it was nothing major.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: It was a tweak in my groin.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so my initial thought was to avoid it, to rest it, let fear kind of set in, be like, oh man, this is my third setback, like I just need to step away from this, right?
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: But then I've always had this thought stuck in my head.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: If I get scared of it, I'll build up even more fear and apprehension, like a little kid falling off their bike, right?
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: If they fall off their bike and they get hurt, for example, then there might be this apprehension to get back on the bike.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: You build more fear, or you can try again and leave on a positive note and know it's safe and okay.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's okay to just make sure that you do that thing, but of course, don't do it maybe at the intensity or maybe have some guardrails around it.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I still did a modified version of the movement to let my groin know it's okay.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: Now, had I like really strained this thing and I was in, you know, eight out of ten pain, ten out of ten pain, then yeah, maybe let's back off of it.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where we use our traffic light system.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: If it's green or yellow light, we're gonna be okay in that.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, making sure we avoid anything super sharp and then anything in the red light zone where it's high levels of pain or six and above, we're gonna stay away from because we are gonna pay for that later, and it's not even worth pushing into that pain, right?
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so the thing is is that with this situation, I wanted to try and leave on a positive note.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I did that modified version of it, and I did let it sit in that green light zone and kind of got into like the the yellow light zone where it was into mild to moderate levels of discomfort, versus calling it a day and feeling defeated and just saying, like, I'm done.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: Important not to let that fear set in, like doing your first jump, for example, and the knee gets super grumpy.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: Doesn't mean you just go off and do a bunch of jumps afterwards to make sure there's no fear, but good to let the knee and your brain and just your overall mental mindset piece of how we do this process know we're fine.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yes, we are stressing the knee, and guys, when we're applying stress, it's okay for sometimes for there to be a little bit of discomfort or there to be a little bit of soreness.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, sometimes that leads to something flaring up because we push it, but that's what we're doing in this rehab process.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: So we're not sitting in this like comfortable 20% range of our strength.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: We're trying to push boundaries, and with pushing boundaries, you're gonna stress the knee, and sometimes it just doesn't necessarily uh respond as well, and that might lead to it being grumpy or pulling something or straining something, and that can be okay, right?
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't need to happen all the time, but it's going to happen.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: I promise you, I promise you, if you're going in this process and you never have any flare-up or any type of setback, you will be the 0.000001% of ACLers going through this because every ACLer will have some sort of setback within this process, even if it's minor.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so the thing here is to make sure we don't walk away feeling defeated and not let that fear set in, right?
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: So what we need to do is just make sure we're fine.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: And the goal is for us to get ourselves back to at least a good baseline.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, in that moment, baseline might not be there, but hopefully over the next day, few days, maybe even weeks, right?
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like we're getting you back to baseline depending on the degree of how much it has flared you up, right?
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: And people think that when something flares up, we just need to rest or stop.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's like after ACL surgery, right?
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: People are like, I've had a major surgery, let me just like chill in the bed for seven days, 14 days, and not really do much.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: Guys, we've had people who they've been on bed rest for two weeks, three weeks, and it's because usually there's a gap in the surgeon telling them to go do physical therapy or they can't get into physical therapy.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's crazy.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: And we have had people who have had actually been told to rest for two weeks.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's crazy.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: The thing is that we do not need to rest after surgery.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, we need to respect the healing.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: We don't need to push the gas as hard as we can, but we also don't fully pull the emergency brake and stop everything.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: We are going to slowly let on the gas a little bit and just let the car accelerate a little bit.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: So we're trying to at least like do what we can within the boundaries of what our knee can tolerate.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then each day we'll add up and compound interest grows from there.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: I promise you, no one needs to just fully rest after any injury or any surgery.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that's the rice protocol, but that thing is outdated.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: It is not in use anymore and shouldn't be in use.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I've shared with you guys before police protect protection, optimal loading, eyes compression elevation is a very simple one for you to know.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: Optimal loading means just find a tolerance that you can work within, protect it, of course, and don't make it worse.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then eyes compression, elevation, great things to be able to add into the mix.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then there's peace and love, which is a very long acronym that you can look up yourself, but it's also a more up-to-date method that includes these things as well as some other components.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: But I like to keep it simple with police and that checks most of the boxes here.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's kind of what you know we tried to do, especially here at the ACL Athlete, to make sure we keep our ACLers going.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: And this is what I did myself, right?
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so the thing here is that there's a time and place, but to maybe rest, especially when it's super extreme.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: But in most of your situations, there's always a way to modify, train around it, and plenty of other areas to work and still get some input.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I get that this can't just blindly be applied to all situations because context is so important of where in the process you are, variables are like what graph type, restrictions, symptoms you're dealing with, the goals that you have and time sensitivity.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a dance between a lot of these variables and many more I didn't even mention.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: The biggest thing here is to know how to do this, and that's where proper education and guidance comes in.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: I readjusted in the moment, and then I connected with my remote coach, let them know, and he helped me to kind of modify a few things so then that way we are progressing a little bit better with the certain movements based on the conversation we had.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: So we adapted the plan.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: He helped to provide some input on this based on you know the data points leading up to this, and that is something that we're just gonna move forward with and adjust.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's a slight adjustment to the game plan versus being like, all right, rest, don't let this get angry.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then guess what?
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: All the work I put in is just gonna drop, it's gonna be sluggish getting back into the gym.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: And there's no point in that.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: For some reason, when pain happens or when a flare-up happens, people think I just need to fully rest.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: And that is the worst thing that you can do, to be completely honest.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: What is really important is to make sure that we adjust.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's an adaptable plan, and that's what ACL rehab should be.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: Another good example here is I just had one of my ACLers who was walking his dog roll his ankle.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: He stepped off a curb and rolled it.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: The guy has a history of ankle sprains with playing basketball in the past throughout a lot of his, you know, younger days, high school, college, and for a long period of time at different levels.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: And now we are doing a non-op ACL rehab process because he's just not in the place to be able to have surgery.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: And he wants to try and do it without having a reconstruction done.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: And the thing here that I want to share is that people sometimes think that this rehab process happens in a vacuum and it does not.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like I just talked to somebody recently and they're gonna have to go back to work literally in five days after ACL surgery.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it is not a remote job fully.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: They're gonna be on their feet moving around a little bit and they'll modify.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm like, that's gonna affect your rehab a lot, actually.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think assuming that this process happens in a vacuum is very challenging.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I think people come into this mindset, all right, I'm gonna have this perfect plan, I'm gonna do these perfect sessions, I'm gonna go do these things.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: But the thing is, is that yes, maybe before the first four weeks or six weeks, or if you just have no other responsibilities and planning not to do anything besides this process, then great.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: But that is not majority of folks.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so I have ACLers who one just went to a camp for three weeks, one has been traveling and they want to travel before you know it's their senior year as they come to play soccer, right?
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: I have another one who is trying to get back to working um as a nurse, and then I have another person, like this one that I said, who rolled off a curb.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: He's got kids.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so the thing is, is like there's so many ACLers that we work with and sharing that they have live things that come up, right?
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that's the thing that is really important to understand in this process that shit is just gonna happen, right?
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: And other scenarios we've had ACLers deal with, just to give you an idea, someone gets really, really sick, like they get really, really sick, like a stomach bug, they have some sort of other health issues, someone has a family event that happens.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like we've had family members of some of our ACLers where they pass away, right?
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's just gonna happen.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: So they have to go, and depending on the closeness, the degree of it, like they may have to just kind of step away for a second.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: And it's an emotional toll as well as it is just like a physical toll on them, right?
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because they're also out of their normal routine.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: We've had ACLers go through breakups, divorce, right?
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: Those are hard situations emotionally to go through, and your life just changes.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: People injure other areas, right?
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like it might be related to work, it might be related to they've been dealing in nursing with other things, like a low back pain issue, maybe it's a shoulder issue.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: We've had ACLers where they've had both ACLs torn and they've had to navigate having surgery on both, right?
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: We've had people where they've dislocated a shoulder while they've also rehabbed an ACL, right?
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: So then therefore, we're trying to nurse different things through this process.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: So it makes it really complicated.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so that is something that we have to navigate, right?
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: Another example is like kids.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: Kids throw a huge factor into this, especially for our parents, right?
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like, because, you know, if you have a six-month-old, how are you gonna reason with a six-month-old who might still be breastfeeding and that can't necessarily be left unattended, right?
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's even harder whenever you have a one-year-old, a two-year-old who's running around, but you can't logically say, Hey, I'm just doing my rehab, can you just sit to the side and be quiet?
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so, what about someone that's having a tough time at school?
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: Someone's having a tough time at work, they just got fired from work, right?
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so they have to go to work and they have a specific event, even though it's not in their best interest, they still need to go to make it happen for their career, right?
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then there's just the plain old something just got tweaked or got injured, right?
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: And that is just life, y'all.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: That is just the complex human body, and we don't have full control over it.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that is something I know 100%.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: I wish we did.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: I wish we could control the inputs and outputs, and that's what we try to do in this process, and it is a dance because of all these factors and the way our human body is so complex, right?
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: But this is why the timing of the surgery, the graft you get, the physical therapy that you do, the rehab process itself, and having a plan, a structured plan and process for this, and an expert guide is so key, y'all.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: I say this all the time, and I hold to it that your rehab provider will make or break your process.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: They will.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: And the thing is, is that it's gonna help make the process adaptable so that when these moments happen, and key word here is when, not if, not if they happen, when these moments happen, there is a quick adjustment.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: I always use the analogy of going on a detour, and so you're on this path, you are driving in your car, right?
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: Or maybe you're riding along, and then all of a sudden something comes up, right?
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's a detour that you have to take, right?
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: And imagine this is the injury or just the setback that you're having, right?
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: The thing is, is that that detour could either be really long off the path that adds a lot of time, complexity, unknown turns along that path, or it could be just a quick little detour off.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you're just grabbing some gas, maybe you have to just kind of stop by and take a few turns, and then you get right back on the interstate, for example.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: That is the difference in an adaptable plan.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: A GPS that is gonna be there to make the adjustments, and that is what we need in ACL rehab, y'all, because this process is dynamic.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: We are complicated humans, there are so many factors in play.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: And the thing is, is that it's just not going to be linear.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: And the thing is that's gonna really help with this is that it's gonna help reduce the fear and anxiety when these things happen.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: It saves time.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: I can't tell you how much that people just get stuck in like figure trying to figure it out or doing it themselves or just bad rehab and bad guidance.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: And they're like, oh, hopefully we'll get better with time.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: And it just doesn't.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: And it ends up costing them maybe three months, six months.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: It costs them limping at their wedding, it cost them not being able to go on this trip with their buddies, it cost them not being able to get to college without being on their crutches.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like, there's an opportunity cost to all things, but having the right guidance and team in your corner is going to save you time, is going to give you peace of mind.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the important thing that we need to take away from today that I hope I got the point across is that y'all, it's gonna be okay.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: Shit happens.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Give yourself some grace, please.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then the important piece is that you want to make sure you have a game plan, you have expert guidance, and making sure that that is an adaptable GPS and roadmap at any given point, at any given setback, because they're gonna happen, and it could be the difference in saving you a month, six months, a year, multiple years, and even long-term thinking about osteoarthritis and just the ability to do things that you may have not even thought of before.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: Those are gonna be opportunities that could be saved by just making sure that you have the right team and right guidance in place.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: But just know that shit does happen.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: Don't blame yourself in these situations, do an audit of it and just make sure that you know what to do.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: And that is going to make all of the difference in this process and especially getting you back to doing the thing.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I hope that that was helpful, y'all.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: If y'all need anything, we are here to help.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: Please reach out with any questions.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: And appreciate all of you who have sent messages, who have been very supportive in this process.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: And if you got anything out of this or any of our work and previous podcasts, please leave us a five-star review that helps us reach more ACLers, continue to push the mission forward, make more of an impact, and most importantly, for us to redefine this space, redefine ACL rehab, do it different, change the standard and elevate it.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: And that's something that we are here to do.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: So please do that if you have a second Spotify, Apple Podcasts, anywhere that you're listening to this, because it really does go a long way.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I appreciate you guys so much.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: If you need anything, we're here.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, this is your host, Robbie Patel, signing off.