Latest / The Insurance Growth Lab / Jennie Lyttle's Cold Calling Playbook for Insurtech Outbound Success
Transcript
- Jennie [0:00:00]: Within a few weeks, we had gotten so many demos from this broker box, that we had to hire more reps in market to take care of demos. Jennie [0:00:08]: So we established our entire BD team. Jennie [0:00:11]: We had BD cole calling on all these asian setting demos And it ended up, our ROI was like, over three hundred percent. Jennie [0:00:18]: It was insane. Callan [0:00:21]: Welcome to The Insurance Growth Lab, where we go deep on the growth campaigns and strategies driving real results in the insurance industry. Callan [0:00:29]: I’m Callan Harrington founder of Flashgrowth and in each episode, I sit down with marketing and growth leaders from carriers and shirt tech and top brokers to break down one specific initiative, whether it's how they marketed a product, scaled a chance or solve a specific growth challenge. Callan [0:00:46]: It's no fluff, just tactical insights you can apply in your own company. Callan [0:00:51]: Welcome back everyone to The Insurance Growth Lab. I'm Callan Harrington, and today, I'm joined by Jennie Lyttle. Callan [0:01:02]: Jennie is sales director of SALT. Callan [0:01:04]: And if that name sounds familiar. Callan [0:01:06]: Jen has been both a c host on the show and also a guess. Callan [0:01:10]: I highly recommend checking out episode seventeen of that worked to check out her full story. Callan [0:01:16]: In short, Jen is a beast when it comes to all things sales and outbound. Callan [0:01:22]: I've been fortunate to work together with Jen over the years, and to this day, I've yet to see someone better at cold calling. Callan [0:01:28]: And on this episode, we went deep on the most successful campaign that she's running her career. Callan [0:01:34]: This happened during her time at beam benefits. Callan [0:01:37]: And then after we wrapped up that, We went straight into a state of the union for cold calling in the insurance market today. Callan [0:01:45]: So if you're thinking about running outbound campaigns or you're doing any kind of cold calling you wanna improve it, this is the episode for you. Callan [0:01:54]: So with that, Let's get to the show. Callan [0:01:56]: Alright. Callan [0:02:03]: Jen. Callan [0:02:04]: Welcome go back to the show first. Jennie [0:02:06]: Thank you. Jennie [0:02:07]: I'm excited to be back. Callan [0:02:08]: Easily between c hosting and your own episode by far the person that's been on the most. Callan [0:02:15]: Maybe sullivan pretty close between you and you and Sullivan for sure. Jennie [0:02:18]: Yeah. Jennie [0:02:18]: It's so fun to be here. Jennie [0:02:19]: Every time I get a message from you that You're like, I have an idea. Callan [0:02:25]: Ninety percent of the time. Callan [0:02:25]: It's a great idea. Callan [0:02:26]: Ten percent, Just total flops. Callan [0:02:28]: You gotta keep shooting. Callan [0:02:29]: No. Callan [0:02:29]: You have to keep shooting. Jennie [0:02:31]: Yeah. Jennie [0:02:31]: Exactly. Callan [0:02:32]: Alright. Callan [0:02:32]: Here's where I wanna start this out. Callan [0:02:33]: K. Callan [0:02:34]: When I say the words, hey, Jenny? Jennie [0:02:36]: Yes. Callan [0:02:37]: I see you're laughing already. Jennie [0:02:38]: Yes. Callan [0:02:38]: What does that mean to you? Jennie [0:02:40]: So we recently did a campaign went out to thousands of agents. Jennie [0:02:44]: Most are customers because we were announcing a new feature. Jennie [0:02:47]: And the campaign is set up to have emails come back to me so I can address sales potential Yeah. Jennie [0:02:55]: Service potential, what have you Yep. Callan [0:02:58]: You're tri these emails Jennie [0:03:00]: moving them out and just getting insight into what our customers are saying is really important to me. Jennie [0:03:04]: So I start getting some of these emails. Jennie [0:03:07]: And finally, I get an email from one of our power users that says, hey, Jenny, I don't have a Jenny in my office. Jennie [0:03:16]: Did you mean to address this to another agent? Jennie [0:03:18]: And so I finally, like, scroll down to the email. Jennie [0:03:20]: I obviously didn't do the campaign. Jennie [0:03:22]: My... Jennie [0:03:22]: I can't say enough about our marketing team. Jennie [0:03:24]: They are incredible, but we've all made this mess up. Jennie [0:03:27]: Instead of writing, hey, the contacts first name. Jennie [0:03:32]: It was hey, contact owners. Callan [0:03:35]: So in other words, whomever owns the contact in Hubspot. Callan [0:03:39]: Correct. Callan [0:03:39]: It was saying, hey. Callan [0:03:41]: So if I own the I owned it in Hubspot said, hey, Call and it's addressing the agent. Callan [0:03:46]: By your name. Jennie [0:03:47]: Yes. Callan [0:03:48]: Not the agent's name. Jennie [0:03:49]: And, of course, again, easy to... Jennie [0:03:50]: Because when you're putting in Hubspot, obviously, like, the personalization really easy to, like, click the wrong one. Jennie [0:03:55]: We've all been there. Callan [0:03:57]: Million percent. Jennie [0:03:58]: And if anything, it gives some human immunization Oh, To emails? Jennie [0:04:02]: And it was just like that Wtf moment? Jennie [0:04:05]: Don't know. Jennie [0:04:05]: What do we do? Jennie [0:04:06]: How do we address this in, like, a professional way? Jennie [0:04:10]: Do we ignore it? Jennie [0:04:11]: Do we... Jennie [0:04:12]: What do we do? Jennie [0:04:12]: So my marketing team and I got together and we're like, okay, what do we do? Jennie [0:04:16]: How do we fix this? Jennie [0:04:17]: And so we decided to just own it. Jennie [0:04:20]: And we sent out a really witty email afterward that just said, like, we apologize or oops. Jennie [0:04:25]: I forget what the subject line I know this was really witty and great. Jennie [0:04:28]: And in the email, we asked them to give us puns off of our company name that would, like, make them laugh, and we got so much great response from this email of our mistake. Callan [0:04:40]: Yeah. Jennie [0:04:41]: And that just reminded me it's, like, with all the Ai in the world and all this stuff that's going on, people like to remember that there's a human behind the computer. Callan [0:04:49]: Yeah. Jennie [0:04:49]: And it it was flawless. Jennie [0:04:50]: I think I... Jennie [0:04:51]: If we could do it Callan [0:04:52]: all over again. Callan [0:04:52]: I might You might do it that purpose. Callan [0:04:53]: Yeah. Callan [0:04:54]: You might do that purpose. Jennie [0:04:55]: I might it again, because it it was great. Jennie [0:04:56]: And our marketing team owned it, that was such a great learning lesson. Jennie [0:05:00]: I think is one of my favorite things about just working in general, but it was great. Jennie [0:05:05]: We got a lot of great response. Jennie [0:05:06]: A lot of agents giving us really funny feedback and oddly enough, a few agents like signing up for, like, their renewal calls and... Jennie [0:05:14]: Yeah. Jennie [0:05:14]: Just engagements. Jennie [0:05:16]: I'm not surprised. Callan [0:05:18]: It's funny. Callan [0:05:18]: You always think that that's gonna be a death sentence. Callan [0:05:20]: I remember... Callan [0:05:21]: Yeah. Callan [0:05:22]: I know you remember this well. Callan [0:05:23]: So we used to work together at shipyard and Smart Harbor at multiple times throughout the years. Callan [0:05:27]: But named Nick's gonna kill because I'm gonna straight up gu name. Callan [0:05:33]: Nick who's was on the episode a, a few episodes back. Callan [0:05:35]: Yep. Callan [0:05:36]: Who is a absolute expert. Callan [0:05:38]: I mean, and so that's why I to... Callan [0:05:40]: I'm saying that specifically. Callan [0:05:40]: So people know it doesn't matter. Callan [0:05:43]: Like... Callan [0:05:43]: Yeah. Jennie [0:05:44]: And so He is one of the smartest people And Callan [0:05:46]: And it's especially when it comes to re ops. Callan [0:05:48]: So nick loads up. Callan [0:05:50]: I think it was It was, like, ten thousand. Callan [0:05:53]: Yeah. Callan [0:05:54]: And this was a list that we had gotten. Callan [0:05:56]: He uploads this list and it's any he uploads for... Callan [0:05:59]: We didn't have, like, the first names and last names of all the principles. Callan [0:06:02]: So we had a ton of those that just had no name, but we had that... Callan [0:06:05]: When this is agency principles to address and everything else. Callan [0:06:07]: So there's like ten thousand unknown unknowns. Callan [0:06:10]: That's what we had to input it as. Callan [0:06:13]: But the funny thing is he actually spelled unknown wrong. Callan [0:06:16]: So it said unknown un count. Callan [0:06:18]: And Do you remember when you said that email? Jennie [0:06:22]: Yes. Jennie [0:06:22]: Because I again, started getting some of those back, and I'm, like, I remember Nick's sat behind me, and he was to Nick's credit was so young in this... Callan [0:06:32]: Y'all. Callan [0:06:32]: Say? Callan [0:06:32]: I think a night fresh off of being an intern. Callan [0:06:35]: Yeah. Callan [0:06:35]: If not, potentially still intern, which Nick intern is freshman year in college. Jennie [0:06:39]: Right. Callan [0:06:39]: Dude's been doing this for a long time. Callan [0:06:40]: Go Sorry. Jennie [0:06:41]: But he... Jennie [0:06:42]: I mean, he sat behind me. Jennie [0:06:43]: And I remember I just slowly turn around and nick at him And he already knew. Jennie [0:06:48]: Like, already knew that he had screwed that up. Jennie [0:06:51]: And Yeah. Jennie [0:06:51]: Like, what did you do? Jennie [0:06:52]: And he's, like, just go with it. Jennie [0:06:55]: Just forget that we did it and just call these agents and figure out who they are. Jennie [0:06:59]: And oddly enough, I closed my first deal. Callan [0:07:02]: It's for that email, which is still crazy. Callan [0:07:04]: But it it's deal. Callan [0:07:05]: You think these things are going to be devastating. Jennie [0:07:09]: Correct. Callan [0:07:09]: And it's not to say that you don't feel it. Callan [0:07:11]: And, yeah, I am sure there's a number of those that immediately unsubscribe, or actually you know what? Callan [0:07:16]: Alright. Callan [0:07:17]: This is, like, twelve, fifteen years ago. Callan [0:07:19]: There was no one subscribed me. Callan [0:07:20]: I just put... Callan [0:07:21]: I left them things back in. Callan [0:07:23]: I shouldn't say that, but through. Callan [0:07:25]: I learned that you knew need to keep that crane, But this was long time ago. Callan [0:07:30]: Anyway. Callan [0:07:31]: I digress, but I just... Callan [0:07:32]: I love that story. Callan [0:07:33]: Yeah because it is so true. Callan [0:07:35]: And it is how you own that matters by just saying it's like, yeah. Callan [0:07:40]: That's all. Jennie [0:07:41]: We did. Callan [0:07:41]: That was not good. Jennie [0:07:43]: Yeah. Jennie [0:07:43]: And in Hub spot has gotten smart enough. Jennie [0:07:46]: That probably enough people did it. Jennie [0:07:47]: Yeah. Jennie [0:07:48]: That now they have a fall back option. Jennie [0:07:49]: Fall back to, hey there or hey. Jennie [0:07:52]: Yeah. Jennie [0:07:52]: So and so or whatever the is, but they've... Jennie [0:07:55]: Enough people have probably said I screwed this campaign up. Callan [0:07:58]: Yeah. Jennie [0:07:59]: Need a fall back. Jennie [0:07:59]: And they now have that. Callan [0:08:01]: Well, I'd love to just see it's like, okay. Callan [0:08:02]: Are they about to queue up two thousand emails to themselves. Callan [0:08:05]: Yes. Callan [0:08:06]: Okay. Callan [0:08:06]: Maybe we should double check on those? Callan [0:08:08]: Okay. Callan [0:08:09]: The area that I'm really actually the most excited dive into and get into the weeds on is This I'm excited because we're gonna go through a specific campaign. Callan [0:08:17]: Yeah. Callan [0:08:17]: Which I don't know if we... Callan [0:08:18]: It's been a few weeks since we went through a specific campaign, but this one's really interesting to me. Callan [0:08:22]: Yeah. Callan [0:08:22]: The broker box. Callan [0:08:23]: Tell us about the broker box. Jennie [0:08:25]: Yeah. Jennie [0:08:25]: So at my time, beam dental, which is now beam benefits here in Columbus, Ohio, this was your prep pandemic, we had started opening markets. Jennie [0:08:34]: When I say markets it was states. Jennie [0:08:35]: We were starting to go live in certain states Mh with our product. Jennie [0:08:38]: And that enough was just hectic. Jennie [0:08:41]: Right? Jennie [0:08:41]: You're hiring multiple sales reps per state and you're bringing these new sales reps in. Jennie [0:08:45]: You're trying to figure out how to get demos. Jennie [0:08:47]: You're trying to get demos to hold. Jennie [0:08:48]: No one knows who you are. Jennie [0:08:49]: Yeah. Jennie [0:08:50]: And we have these toothbrushes. Jennie [0:08:53]: So beam had originally started as a bluetooth toothbrush company where they were gonna sell these toothbrushes to carriers and give, like a brush score to carriers to help lower premium? Callan [0:09:04]: So what what... Callan [0:09:04]: What's that mean? Callan [0:09:05]: What's a brush score? Jennie [0:09:06]: Are you brushing your teeth two times a day for two minutes a day. Jennie [0:09:08]: If you are, your premium can get decreased if you're not brushing your teeth and you're out logging dental hygiene, tele Callan [0:09:15]: for your for your mouth. Callan [0:09:15]: That's that's what they know. Jennie [0:09:18]: Similar to, like, forget the company, but they would maybe it was progressive where you got a snapshot. Jennie [0:09:23]: They put some Yeah. Callan [0:09:24]: I'm sorry. Callan [0:09:24]: Tele. Callan [0:09:24]: Yeah. Callan [0:09:25]: I'm Jennie [0:09:25]: sorry. Jennie [0:09:25]: Exactly. Jennie [0:09:26]: Yeah. Jennie [0:09:26]: So we had all these toothbrushes in our warehouse because we weren't... Jennie [0:09:29]: We became a carrier at that point. Jennie [0:09:31]: And I decided, basically, our Cro came to us said we need more demos. Jennie [0:09:36]: We need to figure out how to get in market, get demos on the calendar, figure it out. Callan [0:09:40]: Yeah. Jennie [0:09:41]: So I went and figured it out without asking. Jennie [0:09:43]: So what I did is I drum up about It was close to a thousand of these broker boxes. Jennie [0:09:48]: Maybe like seven hundred and fifty. Jennie [0:09:50]: And it cost us forty bucks per box to say it was Callan [0:09:54]: forty bucks Jennie [0:09:55]: or something in insane. Callan [0:09:57]: What what's it's in the box. Jennie [0:09:58]: A toothbrush, a bluetooth, like, electric toothbrush. Jennie [0:10:01]: A really nice one, a bottle of toothpaste, and then, like, a one pager of who beam is. Callan [0:10:06]: Okay. Jennie [0:10:07]: And I called the warehouse. Jennie [0:10:08]: I said, how many do we have? Jennie [0:10:09]: And we have x amount. Jennie [0:10:10]: Okay. Jennie [0:10:10]: Great. Jennie [0:10:11]: How many markets do we need to get into how many brokers do we have. Jennie [0:10:14]: And I went to my sales team and I said, okay, These are the states we have open. Jennie [0:10:18]: I need you each to pick ten to twenty agents that you wanna send a broker box tube. Jennie [0:10:24]: Hand cherry pick these agents that you wanna send to? Jennie [0:10:27]: We did. Jennie [0:10:28]: I called the warehouse. Callan [0:10:29]: It was the total number you sent to. Jennie [0:10:31]: It was over, like, four hundred. Callan [0:10:33]: Okay. Jennie [0:10:33]: It was a lot. Jennie [0:10:34]: I mean, the amount of money I spent without permission was pretty incredible. Jennie [0:10:39]: I actually look back on that. Jennie [0:10:40]: I'm thinking. Jennie [0:10:41]: I probably could have gotten fired for that. Callan [0:10:43]: Sure. Callan [0:10:43]: No. Callan [0:10:43]: Nick. Callan [0:10:43]: Yep. Jennie [0:10:44]: Oh, Probably, maybe should have. Jennie [0:10:47]: But once they all went out, we started slowly getting trickle in from brokers. Jennie [0:10:53]: But before we started getting trickle in, my boss at the time came to me and was not happy that I did this without asking. Callan [0:11:01]: Yeah. Callan [0:11:01]: Naturally. Callan [0:11:01]: That would... Callan [0:11:02]: I mean, I'm that's... Callan [0:11:02]: Yeah. Callan [0:11:03]: I get it. Jennie [0:11:04]: Not pleased with me. Jennie [0:11:04]: But I said, look, I said, we need demos at all costs. Jennie [0:11:07]: We are brand new brand. Jennie [0:11:08]: People don't know who we are. Jennie [0:11:09]: We have to get in front of these brokers, and it was like summertime. Jennie [0:11:12]: So brokers, as you know, agents aren't in the office a ton. Jennie [0:11:15]: They could have been sitting at the doorstep for a couple days. Callan [0:11:18]: Yeah. Jennie [0:11:18]: But within a few weeks, we had gotten so many demos from this broker box, and we had to hire more reps in market to take care of demos. Jennie [0:11:27]: So we established our entire Bd team. Jennie [0:11:30]: We had Bd cold calling on all these asian setting demos, and it ended up our ROI was, like, over three hundred percent. Jennie [0:11:37]: It was insane. Jennie [0:11:37]: And I eventually went back to my boss at that time, and I said, look, I know I did this without asking. Jennie [0:11:43]: I know I should have probably put a business case together for you for you to see it how much it costs what I'm expecting, but... Jennie [0:11:48]: Yeah. Jennie [0:11:48]: We have a good problem on our hands at this point. Jennie [0:11:51]: And so that was really successful because it got the product in the hands of the agent when insurance isn't something material. Jennie [0:11:59]: You can't touch it, feel it, understand it. Jennie [0:12:01]: You just talk about it. Jennie [0:12:02]: And so when we have a product in hand, it really set us apart, and it scaled so well that it became a constant campaign. Jennie [0:12:11]: Every time we opened a new market, we handpicked picked agents we wanted to send broker boxes to and we send them out. Jennie [0:12:16]: And that became a constant campaign at beam after the entire story ended. Jennie [0:12:21]: It was... Jennie [0:12:21]: Even Bd r would come me and say, I have new broker that I wanna send a broker box to. Jennie [0:12:25]: And we had something in Salesforce that you could click broker box and it would trigger the warehouse and do all the things and It was pretty incredible. Jennie [0:12:33]: It was one of the moments that I'm like, not my finest moment doing that behind the back of my boss, but at the same time, it's one of the best campaigns I've ever run. Callan [0:12:41]: You know, I think this is really interesting. Callan [0:12:43]: And the reality is These are the things I think right now you have to do. Callan [0:12:48]: Like, one of the examples that I've seen to be really successful. Callan [0:12:51]: I all sorts of companies are doing this. Callan [0:12:52]: There's the sending the book, the books blank, but then to cover is the picture of the prospect that you're going to. Callan [0:12:59]: Know, if it's... Callan [0:13:00]: You're selling of founders that says you know, visionary on it or you're selling no Cmo. Callan [0:13:04]: It's Ad week and and your Cmo of the year and stuff like that. Callan [0:13:09]: Yep. Callan [0:13:09]: And it's almost... Callan [0:13:11]: You almost have to do that right now. Callan [0:13:14]: Will be ask you that? Callan [0:13:15]: That me ask that question. Callan [0:13:16]: How are you finding cold calling into the agency market right now? Jennie [0:13:20]: Cold calling still works. Jennie [0:13:21]: I mean, I'm a firm believer that... Jennie [0:13:23]: I mean, we're we're ramping up our team right now to actually put in place someone who can come in and start cold calling on these list. Jennie [0:13:29]: Because right now, we are very blessed to be an inbound first company. Jennie [0:13:33]: We have agents coming to us because they've heard of our product. Jennie [0:13:36]: They know what we do, which is great, but we don't have someone sitting in the seat right now, cold calling, and that is such a miss on strategy that that was one of the first immediate things when I came to SALT was we gotta have someone sitting in the scene in doing it. Jennie [0:13:50]: And I'm doing it today, and I love it. Jennie [0:13:52]: Because if I can get an agent on the phone in ten minutes and talk about what we do who we are and find the need with the agent? Jennie [0:13:59]: That leads right to a demo. Jennie [0:14:01]: It's not emailing back and forth all the time, And do you wanna schedule demo? Jennie [0:14:05]: Click here your for my calendar, are you free? Jennie [0:14:07]: It still works. Jennie [0:14:08]: But what we're finding even just today, I was talking with my marketing team, and I said, I'm gonna hand right notes this month To my prospects because even though agents aren't in the office as much as they used to be, people get mail now, If you get a handwritten note in you're in the mail, you're opening it, peer. Callan [0:14:28]: For sure. Jennie [0:14:29]: I mean, with so much junk mail we're getting now, but people are used to getting holiday cards around this time. Jennie [0:14:33]: So why not send even if they haven't closed a deal yet. Jennie [0:14:36]: Thank you for your time this year. Jennie [0:14:37]: We really appreciate it. Jennie [0:14:38]: We still think the used a great fit. Jennie [0:14:40]: Have my card in it or even just, like, a ten dollar Starbucks gift card give this to your receptionist, something like that. Jennie [0:14:47]: It's going back to, like, those traditional ways. Jennie [0:14:49]: I think as much as I love Ai. Jennie [0:14:51]: I use it constantly. Jennie [0:14:52]: It's in my day to day process. Jennie [0:14:54]: It doesn't, again, going back to like, the human aspect of sales. Jennie [0:14:58]: It goes back to... Jennie [0:14:59]: There's a human on the phone. Jennie [0:15:01]: It's not some dial system, which we've all used those before, which can be great. Jennie [0:15:06]: But when you get somebody on the phone who is the face of your brand, and that's the same person you're gonna talk to in the demo, it's the same person who's gonna close that deal. Jennie [0:15:14]: The same person you're gonna reach out to for service. Jennie [0:15:17]: There's nothing that touches it. Jennie [0:15:19]: There's just not. Callan [0:15:20]: So You're one of the best cold callers Ever been around? Jennie [0:15:23]: Thank you. Callan [0:15:24]: What is working right now? Callan [0:15:25]: What is your process for cold calling now? Jennie [0:15:28]: So today, typically, what I'll do is there's some argument in, like, the sales world about, like, do you send an email first or do you cold call first? Jennie [0:15:36]: What is the best route. Jennie [0:15:38]: Right now, our inbound process is set up that if an inbound lead comes in, they automatically get an email with resources. Jennie [0:15:44]: So we're asking the schedule a call, but it's... Jennie [0:15:47]: Here's all the information you asked for instead of, like, trying to bait them into a call? Jennie [0:15:51]: It's, hey, You've asked for more information here it is. Callan [0:15:53]: Give a. Callan [0:15:54]: Why that verse call them immediately and talk to him them. Jennie [0:15:58]: Because how many times have you filled out a form on a website, and you cannot get them to stop calling you. Callan [0:16:04]: Like Gazillion? Jennie [0:16:05]: Right. Jennie [0:16:05]: And you don't answer them. Jennie [0:16:07]: They come in a spam risk. Jennie [0:16:08]: They're from a number you don't recognize. Jennie [0:16:10]: That's why a lot of people aren't filling out forms nowadays. Jennie [0:16:13]: They're like, I'm gonna have someone call me incessantly until I pick up. Jennie [0:16:16]: So instead, we're sending a resource email. Jennie [0:16:19]: Here's everything you asked for, then I follow up with a call a day later. Jennie [0:16:23]: Not even immediately after just a day later. Jennie [0:16:25]: Hey, Cali, I saw that you got my email. Jennie [0:16:28]: I just wanted to make sure it had all the resources you need. Jennie [0:16:30]: What questions do you have for me. Jennie [0:16:32]: Leave it open, and they will ask questions. Jennie [0:16:34]: Is very rare that I get somebody who says, I got your email. Jennie [0:16:38]: I don't need anything else by. Jennie [0:16:39]: Very rarely Callan [0:16:41]: because what about? Callan [0:16:41]: I'm curious for the sake of debate. Callan [0:16:43]: Yeah. Callan [0:16:44]: Is the connection rate still as high because yours the the school of thought I subscribed to this for a long time. Jennie [0:16:52]: Mh. Callan [0:16:52]: And I'm not saying I still do or don't because I wanna get your opinion on. Callan [0:16:55]: Yes. Callan [0:16:55]: The school thought was call them immediately within five minutes. Callan [0:16:59]: Mh. Callan [0:16:59]: Because you're gonna get them on the phone, and then you have now control over the conversation. Callan [0:17:04]: Yeah. Callan [0:17:04]: If I give them an email with all of that information, they could read that and say man, I'm not really interested in. Callan [0:17:11]: Don't keep me wrong. Callan [0:17:12]: I, like, I will say this that is absolutely a better customer experience. Callan [0:17:18]: And many people would say, yeah, go with the best experience all day long. Callan [0:17:22]: It's hard to argue Bone when you look at pure conversion, which is better. Jennie [0:17:27]: I think two things. Jennie [0:17:28]: One it depends on the email itself. Jennie [0:17:30]: The email has to be good. Jennie [0:17:32]: We have a huge open rate on that email. Jennie [0:17:35]: It's pretty incredible. Jennie [0:17:35]: It's like, in the eighty percent, Callan [0:17:37]: I expect that though. Jennie [0:17:38]: Right. Jennie [0:17:38]: So they request information and they get it. Jennie [0:17:40]: Now mind you, we have two paths on our website. Jennie [0:17:43]: Are you ready for a demo right now. Jennie [0:17:45]: Great book it. Jennie [0:17:46]: Do you just need some more information. Jennie [0:17:47]: If you just need more information, you're not asking for someone to call you? Jennie [0:17:51]: Or else, you would say request a call from sales? Jennie [0:17:53]: What I find though is as soon as they open that email, Hubspot does a fantastic job. Jennie [0:17:58]: Of alerting you as soon as that email is opened and alerting you when they've clicked certain links in it. Jennie [0:18:02]: When you call, you can reference that open and say, hey, I Or, hey, I saw that you clicked on our pricing link. Jennie [0:18:09]: Did you have any questions on our packages. Jennie [0:18:11]: You're personal the phone call to what they opened and what they're interested in? Jennie [0:18:17]: The connection rate for me personally has been significant. Jennie [0:18:20]: It's been significant enough that that's why I'm not doing the first five minute call to an email. Jennie [0:18:25]: But I've also found and this is just theory that if I send an email to them from my email domain from Jenny, and I call them in my caller Id shows Up Jenny Little SALT, They're more likely to pick up. Callan [0:18:38]: So they're... Callan [0:18:38]: Okay. Callan [0:18:39]: That all makes sense to be on inbound. Callan [0:18:40]: Yeah. Callan [0:18:41]: What about outbound? Jennie [0:18:43]: Outbound, start with a call. Jennie [0:18:44]: I think outbound, there's no better way to get to a fast conversation than a call. Jennie [0:18:50]: Because a code email is gonna sit in someone's inbox that they have no idea who it's coming from, the subject line doesn't make sense to their business. Jennie [0:18:58]: The content doesn't make sense to their business, and you're sending it to the wrong person in the agency, You're just wasting your time. Jennie [0:19:05]: You're wasting marketing dollars. Jennie [0:19:06]: It's so much more cost effective to get somebody on the phone calling a good list than it is to send a thousand emails in my opinion. Jennie [0:19:15]: You're open and rate on emails can be significant. Jennie [0:19:18]: But if you can get them on the phone and follow up with an email. Jennie [0:19:22]: Even if they're not interested, hey, I'm not interested in this right now. Jennie [0:19:24]: Okay. Jennie [0:19:24]: Great. Jennie [0:19:25]: I'm still gonna follow up with you with an email, give you the resources that we talked about. Jennie [0:19:29]: There's just that... Jennie [0:19:29]: Again, that human connection that just is so much better. Callan [0:19:32]: Alright. Callan [0:19:32]: So first thirty second to the cold call, They pick up. Callan [0:19:35]: What's that look like? Jennie [0:19:36]: It's really hard to not get on the call and say, how are you today? Jennie [0:19:39]: That is so hard. Jennie [0:19:41]: Every Bd I've ever trained I say, get that out of your mouth. Callan [0:19:45]: I do I agree. Jennie [0:19:46]: Do you really care how they are, you do. Jennie [0:19:48]: But if you say how are you that you sound like a cold collar. Jennie [0:19:52]: One of the best cold calls I actually just got. Jennie [0:19:55]: I won't say the company because they'll know it. Jennie [0:19:57]: But they just cold called me from a six one four number, and I always answer it because it could be kids day care, it could be anything. Jennie [0:20:04]: Right? Callan [0:20:05]: Yeah. Jennie [0:20:06]: Answer it. Jennie [0:20:06]: Hey, Jen. Jennie [0:20:07]: I saw on your Linkedin recently that you were looking for a new account executive. Jennie [0:20:11]: Is that true? Jennie [0:20:12]: I don't know who this person is, but I'm like, yeah. Jennie [0:20:15]: I am. Jennie [0:20:15]: And it's struggling to hire right now because it's holidays, whatever. Jennie [0:20:18]: He said, great. Jennie [0:20:20]: Well, if I could give you a list of candidates in your area with the qualifications you need in the next five minutes, would that be of interest to you? Jennie [0:20:27]: Yes. Jennie [0:20:27]: That would be of interest to me. Jennie [0:20:29]: And it just kept me interested because he did his research. Jennie [0:20:34]: He knew exactly what I was looking for. Jennie [0:20:36]: Yep. Jennie [0:20:36]: He knew exactly what I was hiring for, and he'd cut right to the chase. Jennie [0:20:40]: I think he even opened the conversation with one of my favorite lines on cold calling was, hey, I know you didn't expect my call and it's un unsettled, but I saw that you're looking for an account executive in Columbus. Jennie [0:20:50]: Is that right? Jennie [0:20:51]: Didn't even tell me where he was calling from. Callan [0:20:54]: Yeah. Jennie [0:20:54]: I'm like, okay. Jennie [0:20:55]: That makes sense. Jennie [0:20:56]: But I do think the guard is really... Jennie [0:20:58]: You have to figure out the way to get that guard down, and I do like that opening statement of. Jennie [0:21:02]: I know this is an un scheduled call. Jennie [0:21:04]: You're acknowledging that you're calling them out of the blue. Jennie [0:21:06]: I do like that. Jennie [0:21:07]: I've always used that. Jennie [0:21:08]: In tone matters. Jennie [0:21:09]: I mean, it just matters so much. Jennie [0:21:11]: There's... Jennie [0:21:11]: I've... Jennie [0:21:11]: I still to this day have a mirror in front of my desk because... Callan [0:21:16]: For sure. Jennie [0:21:16]: What you look like on the phone, what you sound like is gonna portray inevitably when you talk to these people. Jennie [0:21:22]: And if you're having a crap day, and you're just frown on the phone, it's gonna sound like it. Jennie [0:21:26]: So I think that that's a big one, but I also think Cold call shouldn't last more than... Jennie [0:21:30]: I mean, if you can keep them on the phone for fifteen minutes. Jennie [0:21:32]: Great. Callan [0:21:33]: Well, what's your purpose of that first call? Jennie [0:21:35]: Purpose of the first car is to qualify. Jennie [0:21:36]: I think a lot of people go into cold calling, like, I just need to set this meeting. Jennie [0:21:40]: I need to set this meeting, But what is the benefit of setting a meeting with somebody that's not a fit for your product. Jennie [0:21:46]: Then you've scheduled an hour with them. Jennie [0:21:48]: You go through the whole product demo. Jennie [0:21:50]: They're not fit. Jennie [0:21:51]: You've wasted an hour when you could have been on a call with someone who is a fit. Jennie [0:21:55]: So my my suggestions always identify fit in that first couple minutes with really good discovery questions. Jennie [0:22:01]: And from there, identify that fit with the agent. Jennie [0:22:05]: Hey, You're a great fit. Jennie [0:22:06]: Would you be interested in scheduling the next call with your team and then getting that team on the call. Callan [0:22:12]: How do you get them to be open to answering those discovery questions? Jennie [0:22:16]: I've always said, hey, I have a couple questions to see if the agency's a good fit? Jennie [0:22:19]: People have this foam that's really real. Jennie [0:22:22]: Everyone wants to be a fit for something. Callan [0:22:25]: So true. Jennie [0:22:25]: You know what I mean? Jennie [0:22:26]: Like, they... Callan [0:22:26]: It's a dis process. Jennie [0:22:28]: Well, they... Jennie [0:22:28]: And they're like, well, why wouldn't I be a fit? Callan [0:22:30]: Yeah. Callan [0:22:30]: Exactly. Callan [0:22:31]: It is crazy how fast that happens. Jennie [0:22:34]: And so I think it is, hey, I wanna see if the is a good fit. Jennie [0:22:37]: If not, that's okay. Jennie [0:22:38]: I'll give you your time back, but if so, I'd love to continue the conversation, and that that works almost every time. Jennie [0:22:44]: So finding that fit asking the great discovery questions, and prompting them to say, hey. Jennie [0:22:48]: I'm gonna maybe four to five questions just to see if the agencies a fit, do you have three or four minutes? Jennie [0:22:53]: Sure. Jennie [0:22:54]: Everyone has three or four minutes on the phone, most of the time. Jennie [0:22:57]: They say they don't, but they do. Jennie [0:22:58]: They answered the call They have the time. Jennie [0:23:00]: I think that that's a a benefit. Jennie [0:23:02]: And I think what a lot of Bd, Sdr str, account executives that are cold calling today get wrong is they'd wanna just get that meeting, get that meeting, get that meeting, which of course, we want to do. Jennie [0:23:13]: But again, your time is just as valuable as that agent's time, especially if you're doing demos in full sales cycle. Jennie [0:23:19]: Get the qualification first, then from there if they're a fit, book that next meeting. Callan [0:23:25]: Are you seeing more full cycle now versus Bd teams? Callan [0:23:27]: Yes. Callan [0:23:27]: Why is that? Jennie [0:23:29]: What I've seen So the last two companies I was at, I took away the idea of a Bd team and did full sales cycle. Jennie [0:23:35]: And the reason is, well, let's be honest. Jennie [0:23:39]: One is funding. Jennie [0:23:40]: There's a lot of companies right now that just can't cash flow an entire Bd team and Yeah. Jennie [0:23:46]: Entire account executive team. Jennie [0:23:47]: An entire customer success team, they just can't cash flow it. Jennie [0:23:50]: And so what account executives are getting really good at is prospecting because an account executive, a good one is not gonna sit around and wait for a bd to give them meetings. Jennie [0:24:00]: They're always gonna be looking at that next prospect They're always gonna look at who is the the referral I got from this closed deal that I can call today. Jennie [0:24:08]: They're not gonna wait around for it. Jennie [0:24:09]: And a hungry account executive is going to cold Callan [0:24:12]: call. Callan [0:24:12]: Agreed. Jennie [0:24:13]: And so I have found in my last, I would say three years, if I can get an account executive who's hungry, excited to get on the phone, doesn't get burnout out by hearing no all the time and can still get on that deal and close it, it cuts down not only the average sales cycle I found, pretty significantly. Jennie [0:24:32]: But again, we talk about the customer experience is just better. Jennie [0:24:35]: That first person you talked to is the human you're having the Zoom call with is the person you're talking to throughout the closed deal. Jennie [0:24:42]: Again, I think it makes the experience a little better. Jennie [0:24:44]: But if I had all the money in the world at a company of any size, I probably would still have a qualifier team, a team of people. Callan [0:24:54]: It's a nice... Callan [0:24:54]: It's a nice career progression. Callan [0:24:56]: It is. Callan [0:24:56]: It allows you to build from within a lot easier. Callan [0:24:59]: Now, they're still, like, gotta look at your own new unit economics, let's say, like, does the cost per acquisition is it worth it to bring on a a Bd team. Callan [0:25:09]: But I I am seeing a lot more people and I think Ai is gonna push a lot more people to go full cycle. Callan [0:25:13]: Yeah. Jennie [0:25:14]: I mean, my founder and I recently we kind of had this, like, discuss and debate on the next hire. Jennie [0:25:18]: Is it a Bd who's strictly cold calling? Jennie [0:25:21]: Or is it an account executive who's running full sales cycle and we did go the full sales cycle route. Callan [0:25:26]: Yeah. Jennie [0:25:26]: And to your point, being a Bd changed my life it really did because it taught me a lot and how to work on my feet really fast. Jennie [0:25:35]: So I always say if you're getting into your sales career for the first time if you come from any outside industry that you've never had to do sales be a Bd for. Callan [0:25:44]: Yeah. Callan [0:25:44]: There's a lot of truth to. Jennie [0:25:46]: Cold call. Jennie [0:25:46]: Getting some type of calling role because it will teach you so much and make you a better account executive. Jennie [0:25:52]: Make you a better consultant, make you a better executive. Jennie [0:25:54]: It just does. Jennie [0:25:55]: I've seen so many executives. Jennie [0:25:56]: So I've asked, like, have you been Bd? Jennie [0:25:59]: Have you done the Role and they just have it, and it kinda shows sometimes. Jennie [0:26:02]: So I think that's a differentiator. Jennie [0:26:05]: You really have to look at your business? Jennie [0:26:06]: Your unit economics and say, like, what makes the most sense for the what we're trying to accomplish today? Jennie [0:26:11]: For us, it was more demos, more demos, more demos, not necessarily more cold calls. Jennie [0:26:16]: So that's why we kind of pivoted towards that full sales cycle role. Callan [0:26:20]: You know, here's something thing I'm curious about. Callan [0:26:22]: Yeah. Callan [0:26:22]: You spend a lot of time insurance, spend some time outside of insurance. Callan [0:26:26]: I came back to insurance. Callan [0:26:28]: And I'm curious. Callan [0:26:31]: What are the things that somebody's coming into insurance that they need to know. Callan [0:26:35]: And this role that we're talking about when it comes to outbound and cold calling in this whole world. Jennie [0:26:42]: Yeah. Jennie [0:26:42]: I think without sounding to cra, insurance is an industry that has not changed in a hundred years, but is also changing faster than any industry I can see right now with the use of Ai with the use of these software and technology products that are helping agencies move faster. Jennie [0:27:00]: But what you're gonna find in what you need to learn is that agents are so protective of their business. Jennie [0:27:07]: They really want to beat the guy down the street. Jennie [0:27:11]: They're uber competitive, and their salespeople people on themselves. Jennie [0:27:14]: They're seeing through your smokes screen fast. Callan [0:27:18]: No question. Callan [0:27:18]: Agree. Jennie [0:27:19]: So you have to get through that really, really fast and be humble about it. Jennie [0:27:23]: I mean, I've made cold calls where I'm saying, hey. Jennie [0:27:25]: You're a salesperson. Jennie [0:27:26]: I'm a salesperson. Jennie [0:27:27]: Let me ask you a few questions if that's okay. Jennie [0:27:29]: And they don't mind that. Jennie [0:27:30]: They understand it. Jennie [0:27:31]: So it's... Jennie [0:27:32]: You're selling to salespeople, which is unlike a lot of industries that you can be in salesforce. Jennie [0:27:37]: Sure. Jennie [0:27:38]: So you have to be really quick on your feet. Jennie [0:27:41]: You have to understand these agents, The whole goal is them to protect their assets in their business. Jennie [0:27:47]: So they're not going to invest in something that they don't believe in. Jennie [0:27:51]: And if they do, they're gonna cancel quick because they don't implement or they don't get their team on board or they don't understand it. Jennie [0:27:57]: And, yeah. Jennie [0:27:58]: I think it's really interesting because just recently, I came across an agent that I started working with at the shipyard, he remembered my name. Jennie [0:28:06]: He said, I remember you. Jennie [0:28:08]: And I said, from where? Jennie [0:28:10]: And he said you worked at that marketing agency, what was it? Jennie [0:28:14]: Like, five years ago I said, actually, it was, like, ten. Callan [0:28:16]: But the fact that you remember Jennie [0:28:18]: who I am is incredible. Jennie [0:28:19]: And that's the thing those girls don't go anywhere. Callan [0:28:22]: Yeah. Jennie [0:28:22]: You can pull a list of agents today and pull that same list of agents in ten years. Jennie [0:28:26]: Some of them are retire. Jennie [0:28:27]: Some of them unfortunately will go other places, but they stick around. Jennie [0:28:31]: And you you can build that trust with them quickly. Jennie [0:28:34]: We have to keep it because they they really hold on to the people that they do business with. Callan [0:28:39]: I'd say you. Callan [0:28:39]: I agree with all those points. Callan [0:28:41]: I mean, I think that especially with the agency space. Callan [0:28:43]: It's hard to get out of insurance. Callan [0:28:46]: Tell me about it. Jennie [0:28:51]: I tried. Jennie [0:28:51]: I really really did and not to say, like, insurances it sticks with you, but it was an industry I knew and I knew how to talk to. Callan [0:28:59]: Yeah. Jennie [0:28:59]: And going to, like, these conferences now this year again. Jennie [0:29:02]: It's like, oh, hi, so and so and so and so, and it's just people stick around. Callan [0:29:08]: Yeah. Callan [0:29:08]: No. Callan [0:29:08]: Look, I'm one of the rare ones that just I love insurance. Callan [0:29:11]: I love the industry. Callan [0:29:12]: I love the Nuances. Callan [0:29:13]: I love how complex it is. Callan [0:29:15]: Yeah. Callan [0:29:15]: But it is... Callan [0:29:16]: I've found that there are people in the beginning of my career back in two thousand nine. Callan [0:29:23]: I'm still see the same people. Callan [0:29:26]: Yeah. Callan [0:29:26]: Now it's interesting because so many people have went on to take great positions. Callan [0:29:30]: And it is kinda crazy because everyone does grow together because if if That is why. Callan [0:29:35]: Like, you... Callan [0:29:35]: It's not an industry where you can burn a bridge. Jennie [0:29:38]: Oh, for sure. Jennie [0:29:39]: Everyone will know. Callan [0:29:40]: Yeah. Callan [0:29:40]: It's it is small. Callan [0:29:42]: Everyone's gonna know in that reputation will will follow. Jennie [0:29:46]: It will. Jennie [0:29:46]: It absolutely will. Jennie [0:29:47]: And I mean, the same with agents. Jennie [0:29:49]: I mean, I've worked with some agents I I'd never wanna work with again based on. Callan [0:29:53]: Oh, sure. Callan [0:29:53]: Yep. Jennie [0:29:54]: The way they've treated my staff or the things they've said to us or the ways that they do things. Jennie [0:29:58]: It's like, you talk about not non fit. Jennie [0:30:01]: It's like, we're not calling on this guy ever. Callan [0:30:04]: Yeah. Jennie [0:30:04]: You know, I've had a few of those come across, but you're right. Jennie [0:30:07]: I mean, if you show up at a conference, and you've burned a bridge with a decent sized agent, everyone's gonna know. Jennie [0:30:13]: Yeah. Jennie [0:30:13]: And no one's gonna trust you. Jennie [0:30:15]: So I completely agree with that that piece of it. Callan [0:30:18]: It doesn't mean you can't, like, tie in a full circle to earlier. Callan [0:30:21]: It doesn't mean you can't write the wrongs. Callan [0:30:23]: Sure. Callan [0:30:24]: And then proof... Callan [0:30:24]: But you gotta... Callan [0:30:25]: And you're gonna have an uphill battle climb. Callan [0:30:26]: Start to say, like, yeah, You should still be taking risks and making mistakes and stuff like that, especially if you're innovating. Callan [0:30:31]: But, I mean, that was one of the things that I always found. Callan [0:30:34]: What whether that was at Smart harbor, bold penguin or any of those companies, the majority of agencies have a pretty high patients on a product. Callan [0:30:43]: Sure. Callan [0:30:44]: On a new product. Callan [0:30:45]: No, I will say this is specifically for the early adopters. Callan [0:30:47]: If you're if you're further down the product adopted so, if you're, like, in the early majority late majority, not so much. Callan [0:30:52]: But that's just about... Callan [0:30:53]: I don't think anybody is. Callan [0:30:54]: But I think meaning, like any other industry, same thing's gonna happen. Callan [0:30:58]: But I found they will be very patient with your product if the service is really high. Callan [0:31:07]: If you're owning the things that you that were over promised or wrong or whatever that might be. Callan [0:31:12]: And I was insane that goes for not just agencies, but carriers and pretty much anybody in the space. Callan [0:31:17]: You know, one of the things I always heard, and I can't say this specifically, but just from friends of mine that have worked in the auto dealership space, if there's not... Callan [0:31:25]: If there is an immediate ROI that burst month is gone. Callan [0:31:28]: They will not mess around. Callan [0:31:29]: I I even found that to be the case in insurance. Jennie [0:31:32]: I don't think so either. Jennie [0:31:33]: I mean, we recently just signed up an agency because of the features we haven't rolled out yet. Callan [0:31:38]: Yeah. Jennie [0:31:39]: And, I mean, they just did their onboarding call. Jennie [0:31:41]: I just got the call on my way here and our onboarding specialist said to me She's a great fit. Jennie [0:31:46]: She's excited about the product, It... Jennie [0:31:48]: It's gonna work really well for her, but she's more excited for this product. Jennie [0:31:52]: We're releasing the end of the year. Jennie [0:31:54]: Top of the first of the year. Jennie [0:31:55]: And to your point, if we don't deliver if we don't have that service intact. Jennie [0:32:00]: If we don't keep her updated on how thing. Jennie [0:32:02]: Even if we say, hey, we promised you the first week of January, it's looking like it's gonna be in February, that momentum of keeping in front of the customer, is always gonna pay off. Jennie [0:32:12]: They will always stick around. Jennie [0:32:14]: And we talked a little bit about two, you know, agents who early adopters to your point. Jennie [0:32:20]: If they can see the vision, if you can paint a vision and, like, the end result of using your product To the agent, That's the end all be all. Jennie [0:32:27]: It's not selling what this product can do for you today. Jennie [0:32:31]: It's... Jennie [0:32:31]: Here's what can happen to your if you implement this product over time. Callan [0:32:36]: Yeah. Jennie [0:32:37]: That's the big win. Jennie [0:32:38]: Oh, I Callan [0:32:38]: would say let them c creative it with you. Jennie [0:32:40]: Yes. Jennie [0:32:40]: Great. Callan [0:32:41]: Correct. Callan [0:32:41]: Most of those early adopters want to be a part of that process. Callan [0:32:44]: Face. Callan [0:32:45]: And they'll let you in, the they'll let you into their office. Callan [0:32:48]: Mh. Callan [0:32:48]: Get into their office. Callan [0:32:49]: Yeah. Callan [0:32:50]: Get into an insurance savings these office. Callan [0:32:52]: It will make it will open eyes to a whole different perspective if you just go make those trips. Callan [0:32:58]: Yeah. Jennie [0:32:59]: Agreed. Jennie [0:32:59]: I was actually just at of an agent's office in the fall, who I met at a conference he was oddly enough here in picker ten, and I sent you... Callan [0:33:07]: And I Jennie [0:33:07]: just come down here. Jennie [0:33:07]: It a small... Jennie [0:33:08]: I mean, it's not a large agent. Jennie [0:33:09]: It's a small agent, but just sitting in this office for two hours. Jennie [0:33:12]: Yes. Jennie [0:33:13]: And seeing how many phone calls he answers? Jennie [0:33:15]: How many people walk through the door. Jennie [0:33:16]: How many claims his receptionist who was his daughter is doing? Jennie [0:33:19]: You know you're a bother. Jennie [0:33:21]: When you cold call these people after seeing how things they are. Jennie [0:33:25]: Got to get in in a way that helps them understand how you're going to benefit them, not how you're gonna benefit your own product. Jennie [0:33:33]: So at your point, we did a beta test this year with one of our new products, and our customers were, like, chopping at the bit to get in this beta test, and it's like, okay. Jennie [0:33:43]: Why don't we just release it then? Jennie [0:33:45]: It's like, well, we wanna release it when it's great. Jennie [0:33:46]: Like, let's just release it and we did. Jennie [0:33:48]: And it's great. Jennie [0:33:49]: It's been fantastic. Jennie [0:33:50]: And so you're right. Jennie [0:33:52]: Hubspot does the same thing. Jennie [0:33:53]: They have all these, like, beta things that as an early adopter of Hubspot. Jennie [0:33:57]: I wanna know. Jennie [0:33:58]: I wanna what's releasing. Jennie [0:33:59]: I wanna know how I can move faster in this tool. Jennie [0:34:01]: And it makes you feel like part of the process, which I love. Jennie [0:34:04]: That to your points like you help c create this product together, and then they feel like it's theirs. Callan [0:34:09]: Okay. Callan [0:34:09]: I got a couple questions to wrap this up. Callan [0:34:12]: Sure. Callan [0:34:12]: You're starting back at the shipyard as a Bd, calling on insurance agencies. Callan [0:34:17]: What would you do differently? Jennie [0:34:20]: So I was on a team with a lot of competitive men. Callan [0:34:25]: Yes. Callan [0:34:25]: But to say safe. Callan [0:34:27]: I'd say that Yeah. Callan [0:34:28]: For sure. Jennie [0:34:30]: And when I would outperform them, which wasn't all the time, but there was some cases where I would. Jennie [0:34:34]: I got too cocky. Jennie [0:34:35]: And I started to let myself, like, fall into my seat a little bit, and it's like, oh, instead of making my sixty five calls today. Jennie [0:34:42]: I can make thirty and still get four demos out and then let that other thirty slide, but the inconsistency started to eat away at me. Jennie [0:34:51]: Little by little, that inconsistency does do some damage. Jennie [0:34:56]: And I remember specifically, you and I had a conversation. Jennie [0:34:59]: You may not even remember this, but you pulled me into one of the conference rooms and you said, Jen, I've noticed that your numbers have dipped a little bit. Jennie [0:35:06]: What's happening. Jennie [0:35:06]: And I couldn't put my finger on I don't know. Jennie [0:35:09]: I feel like I'm still doing the calls. Jennie [0:35:10]: I feel like I'm still doing what I do, but I went back and looked at my numbers and my numbers had dropped. Jennie [0:35:15]: I wasn't making the calls. Jennie [0:35:16]: My demo numbers were still relatively there, but I could see that inconsistency start to happen. Jennie [0:35:22]: So for me, if you can get into a group, even if you're not the best at what you do, consistency will always beat out talent in my opinion every day. Callan [0:35:34]: Yeah. Jennie [0:35:35]: So I feel like if I could remain... Jennie [0:35:37]: If I... Jennie [0:35:37]: In that short period of time, a little bit more consistent, that would have been a game changer for me. Jennie [0:35:42]: But in addition, I also think where I knew I was good at. Jennie [0:35:48]: I should've have just rinsed and repeated that a lot. Jennie [0:35:50]: We... Jennie [0:35:51]: Our friend Bob, who we know is one of the best... Jennie [0:35:53]: One of the best. Jennie [0:35:55]: No question. Callan [0:35:56]: Absolutely No question. Jennie [0:35:57]: Had the most consistent talk track and demo track, I've ever seen in my entire life, and he was our best sales guy. Jennie [0:36:02]: By a landslide. Jennie [0:36:03]: So it's that consistency in what you do, what you say and doing what you say you're gonna do. Jennie [0:36:10]: If you're gonna if you're gonna make seventy calls today, we had our morning standards, I'm gonna make sixty five calls and you make thirty, You gotta you gotta write that wrong somewhere. Jennie [0:36:18]: When... Callan [0:36:20]: Did you ever make thirty calls? Callan [0:36:22]: I never... Callan [0:36:23]: Like, I'm not trying to, like, I could see me having the conversation because your numbers may not be what I thought you were capable. Callan [0:36:31]: Sure. Callan [0:36:32]: But thirty that sounds Jennie [0:36:34]: maybe crazy thirty. Jennie [0:36:35]: But, I mean, there were days I was walking out, like, ninety calls. Callan [0:36:38]: Was a hundred easily. Jennie [0:36:39]: But at the same time, it's like, I said this to somebody not that long ago, because they were asking me about one of their Bd. Jennie [0:36:45]: I said, you, I have Bd who makes thirty calls a day, but their talk time is insane and their demo counts insane. Jennie [0:36:50]: And then I have another Bd who makes a hundred calls a today day and can't get a person on the phone to save their life. Jennie [0:36:55]: What would you rather have? Jennie [0:36:57]: And that's a really interesting question because you get someone who's on the phone who's making connections to scheduling demos, but they may only hit thirty calls that day, but they've been on the phone all day long. Jennie [0:37:07]: Versus someone who... Jennie [0:37:09]: Their numbers look insane, but they can't get a demo on the calendar. Jennie [0:37:13]: That's an interesting dynamic. Jennie [0:37:14]: That's something I've always tend to look at because some B will come in and say, well, I made my hundred calls today See, It's like, are you moving the needle at all. Jennie [0:37:23]: So that's why I think a lot of people are moving towards that to your point connection rate, conversation rate, conversation time instead of just pure numbers. Jennie [0:37:32]: You know, Callan [0:37:34]: it's an interesting question, then that is the age old debate. Callan [0:37:37]: Yeah. Callan [0:37:37]: And my opinions fluctuate on this. Callan [0:37:39]: Yeah. Callan [0:37:40]: The thing that I I kinda settle on on that one in particular is if that person that's cons... Callan [0:37:45]: Is putting a lot of real effort. Callan [0:37:47]: We all know you can wait till seven o'clock and hit fifty calls. Callan [0:37:50]: If you're calling East coast. Callan [0:37:51]: Right? Callan [0:37:51]: Like, that's not... Callan [0:37:52]: Yeah. Callan [0:37:53]: You can start to just go layer deeper to see what's happening. Callan [0:37:57]: Okay. Callan [0:37:58]: So let's say that's been done. Callan [0:37:59]: The next thing I I always look at is, like, how are they improving month over month? Callan [0:38:04]: Right. Callan [0:38:04]: Is there a consistent improvement? Callan [0:38:05]: Now you have to make sure that the coaching is there? Callan [0:38:08]: Sure. Callan [0:38:09]: The coaching, the training, the development is not there, not their fault. Jennie [0:38:12]: Right. Callan [0:38:12]: But if that's there, and they're consistently improving. Callan [0:38:15]: Over time that person will wipe out the other person. Callan [0:38:21]: Unless if their talk time is so high, that's what always to me It was an or. Callan [0:38:25]: It was never an and. Callan [0:38:26]: Like... Callan [0:38:26]: Like, to say I need to make sixty calls and three hours of talk time. Callan [0:38:31]: That's ridiculous. Callan [0:38:31]: Yeah. Callan [0:38:32]: If you're over three hours every day and you're at thirty. Callan [0:38:34]: Okay. Callan [0:38:35]: You you're very good at getting people on the phone. Callan [0:38:36]: That's fine. Callan [0:38:37]: But I think that what I'm hearing and you say is that this is that person that's Or actually, I'm sorry. Callan [0:38:42]: You didn't say this. Callan [0:38:43]: I'll say this. Callan [0:38:43]: I'm thinking of the person that's hitting the end result numbers. Callan [0:38:48]: Correct. Callan [0:38:49]: But their talk time calls are significantly lower everybody else. Callan [0:38:53]: But they're usually hyper talented. Callan [0:38:55]: Mh. Callan [0:38:55]: And can do that. Callan [0:38:57]: On a lot. Callan [0:38:58]: They just don't need to work as hard as other people. Callan [0:39:01]: Now that's great and that said, to me that person's on a super shortly. Jennie [0:39:09]: Street. Callan [0:39:09]: What I mean by that is short is the wrong word. Callan [0:39:11]: They're on... Callan [0:39:12]: I wanna say down I sound Jennie [0:39:15]: my dad. Jennie [0:39:15]: But say Callan [0:39:16]: it is Jennie [0:39:16]: the nice. Jennie [0:39:16]: Yeah. Jennie [0:39:17]: Because you think about that, it's as soon as someone feels like they don't have to work as hard as their peers, they're gonna do what I did. Jennie [0:39:23]: And they're gonna start to get a little cocky, and they're not gonna show up a little bit late to the office, and I've had people like that. Jennie [0:39:29]: I've had stellar sales reps who just get the job done and check out. Callan [0:39:35]: Sure. Jennie [0:39:36]: But to your point, that compounding is key. Jennie [0:39:38]: That incremental increase every single month of demos and close deals and higher Ac and shortening the sales cycle. Jennie [0:39:48]: I think that it does compound over time. Jennie [0:39:51]: Yeah. Jennie [0:39:51]: That is something a sales manager or sales leader has to keep an eye on. Jennie [0:39:55]: You can't just look at the Hubspot dashboard every day and say yep, You hit your calls, You scheduled your demos. Jennie [0:40:00]: Great. Jennie [0:40:01]: But what are the quality of those demos? Jennie [0:40:03]: That was one thing I always did at the shipyard... Callan [0:40:05]: A big one. Jennie [0:40:06]: Every time I scheduled a demo and it held I got paid off at holding. Jennie [0:40:09]: Great. Jennie [0:40:10]: My job's done, but I go back to the Ae and say, was that a good demo. Jennie [0:40:14]: Are you gonna close that? Jennie [0:40:16]: That's important because it... Jennie [0:40:17]: That's what's moving the needle. Callan [0:40:19]: Yeah. Callan [0:40:19]: That's the person that's consistently improving. Callan [0:40:21]: Will... Callan [0:40:22]: Once they get to that same point. Callan [0:40:25]: Yeah. Callan [0:40:25]: I think the reality for me is always this person that didn't do as much that's... Callan [0:40:30]: They've could say they've been fairly consistent, they can't have a bad month. Jennie [0:40:34]: Sure. Callan [0:40:34]: Because if they have a bad month, they can't look in me and say, like, hey, I just had a bad month. Callan [0:40:39]: Mh. Callan [0:40:39]: Hey Even didn't try... Callan [0:40:40]: You didn't... Callan [0:40:40]: Like, your efforts not there. Callan [0:40:41]: Right. Callan [0:40:41]: Have to in a row, then, look, we're probably gonna part ways. Callan [0:40:44]: That person that's been consistently putting in the effort in improving, you know that if they've got a bad month. Callan [0:40:51]: They're gonna be way more consistent because, like, it's there. Callan [0:40:53]: The efforts there. Callan [0:40:54]: It's like, okay. Callan [0:40:55]: I get. Callan [0:40:55]: You're a... Callan [0:40:55]: You you're Jennie [0:40:56]: to them. Callan [0:40:57]: Yeah. Callan [0:40:57]: You've earned a pass. Jennie [0:40:59]: Absolutely. Jennie [0:40:59]: It's personal to them. Jennie [0:41:00]: I mean, I was just telling my founder the other day. Jennie [0:41:02]: Like, I hate losing so much. Jennie [0:41:04]: That everyone's gonna have... Jennie [0:41:06]: Like, there is very rarely a salesperson person who's gonna hit their quota every single month. Jennie [0:41:10]: I mean, quotas are starting to diminish. Jennie [0:41:13]: I mean, the statistics that I'm seeing less and less reps are hitting quotas because of it you name it market. Jennie [0:41:19]: Whatever it could be. Jennie [0:41:20]: Yeah. Jennie [0:41:20]: But if you get someone who hates losing so much and they're willing to go back into that bad month and see what happened. Jennie [0:41:27]: Those are the keepers. Jennie [0:41:28]: Not someone who's, like, to your point, I just had a bad month. Jennie [0:41:31]: I'll get back to it next month, And then you start to see that digress direction, that's a real thing, and I think that is something that's a profile that I always look for, someone who can take accountability, hates losing, but also can see and identify where they went wrong a little bit. Jennie [0:41:48]: Or where their numbers are starting. Callan [0:41:50]: Self reflection. Callan [0:41:50]: Right. Jennie [0:41:51]: Yes. Jennie [0:41:51]: Absolutely. Callan [0:41:52]: Yeah. Callan [0:41:52]: I think it's huge. Callan [0:41:53]: Jen, this was a lot of fun. Jennie [0:41:55]: Yeah. Jennie [0:41:55]: Always. Jennie [0:41:55]: Thanks for coming on soon. Callan [0:41:57]: Oh, hundred percent. Callan [0:41:58]: I hope you enjoyed Jen and I conversation. Callan [0:42:08]: I love talking about how Jen turned an un unsustainable campaign into a highly profitable staple of their go to market strategy. Callan [0:42:15]: You wanna learn more about Jen, you can find a her on Linkedin in the show notes. Callan [0:42:19]: Also, if you like this episode, you can find me on Linkedin to let me know. Callan [0:42:24]: If you really wanna support the show, subscribe to us on Youtube, give us a review on Apple podcast or spotify. Callan [0:42:29]: Every time you do is very much appreciated. Callan [0:42:32]: Thank you for listening, and I'll see you next week.