Latest / The Pressing Play Podcast / Ep16 Pressing Play with Persia Lawson -Finding Love, Choosing Joy & Bringing the Magic
Transcript
- Joanne Fiddy: I am so excited for today's guest. Put the kettle on my loves. Named by the Times as one of the UK's most successful love coaches, Persia Lawson is a dating and relationship expert, author and speaker. For over a decade, she's helped thousands of high achieving women, from CEOs to creatives. find real lasting love after years of disappointment, therapy and self-doubt. As a trained celebrant, she's even officiated some of their weddings. Blending psychology, energy work Persia is known for her trademark no BS approach to modern love. Her work has been featured in Vogue, Cosmopolitan and the BBC and she is a sought after expert. Persia hosts the number one rated podcast, Love Is Coming, and appears as the relationship expert on major US television show, Turgia Lawson, welcome to the Pressing Play podcast. Yeah, she's here. Yes, such, such an honour. Thank you so much for coming on. And I think let's just start at the beginning. mean, have you always been successful in your love life, being a love expert? Tell us. Persia Lawson: Thank you for having me, we got there in the end. I think you know the answer to that. Absolutely not. I was the biggest train wreck out of anyone I knew. God, where to even start with that? I had a boyfriend on every continent for a good, at least a decade, which sounds, you know, one might say, that is a success, but it was very gnarly. Long, long, I'll try and keep this as brief as possible, but when I was growing up, my parents struggled with drug addiction. Joanne Fiddy: you Yeah. Persia Lawson: And the way that I dealt with that was twofold. was basically looking for escapism and validation. And the way that I hit those, got those two needs met was through become being like the overachiever was the golden child, A-stars leading roles, all of that popular. But I also got with boys from actually when I look back from like disturbingly young age and the boys became increasingly like, actually, you I used to flip flop between the like the bad boys because we all have a bad boy. And then obviously I'd get burnt by him and then I'd reach for the nicest close guy around me and then regain my sense of self-worth. And then I would get bored and then end up cheating on him with another bad boy and it would just go on and on. And it got worse and worse actually as my parents got sober when I was around 16 because I always say shit stinks but it's warm. Like we are drawn as human beings to what is familiar over what is unfamiliar. because better the devil you know. I just, yeah, I got worse. I was a complete cheating addict. was, you know, there was a time I was sleeping with my boyfriend's best friend and it all came crashing down in my mid twenties. I went, I got a master's from one of the world's top drama schools and then found myself two weeks later working in a strip club as a hostess. And long story short, I got sexually assaulted in there really hard. quite in a very disturbing situation. Didn't tell anyone, didn't really realize, because then I'd have to explain what I was doing there. And so I just, I got this acting job in China. And when I was there, I was just so self-destructive. And I ended up putting on two stone in two months because I was drinking everything, sleeping with everyone, eating shit, not going to bed, just like really not looking after myself. And I always say that that rapid weight gain was the best thing to ever, like it makes me emotional. It saved my life because That was the one thing I couldn't hide from my parents. I could hide everything else. so, you know, I remember actually a boyfriend that I wrote my first book about, which is 10 years today since that book came out, which is a nice coincidence, The Inner Fix. But I remember him saying to me when, you know, he'd been in rehab because another thing I would always go for addicts. And so he was progressed because he'd actually been to rehab. But when I was telling him about this, he said, I'd known him since I was like a... since I was 13, we got together when I was, I think 25. And he was so surprised. He said, I always thought you were a princess, you had everything. Like he couldn't believe that I would feel that crap about myself and that I would have had problems like that because I was so good at masking them. So yeah, long story short, my parents picked me up from the airport after China and my, and you know, were understandably quite concerned because they're like, she does not, something's not right. So my dad took me away on this health retreat to... Thailand and we were doing yoga every day. It the first time there was no partying, there was no boys to distract me. While we were there, my dad said something that completely changed my life and actually became the message to the book that came out 10 years ago to daily in effects. And it was, he said, Persz, I'm really worried about you. And if, know, he'd been sober by this point for quite some time. And he said, if there's one thing, piece of advice I can give you, it's this, focus on the insides and the outsides will take care of themselves. And that was it. that, I, he, possibly said that to me before, but I heard it, you know, it really landed. And then that sent me on this whole healing trajectory, retreats, therapy, coaching, like all of it, you name it, every self-help book under the sun. Started blogging about it. That blog got quite a lot of media attention, which led to the book deal of the inner fix. And then in the process of writing that book and the book coming out, I met my now husband, who I've been with nearly 11 years and, you know, started this whole. trained as a coach, started this whole, well really, know, to me it's a movement because it's what completely changed my life. And here we are today. Joanne Fiddy: Such an inspirational story. It's such an inspirational story. And just taking from that, isn't it incredible how your body protects you, protected you in that moment and your body. And I think this is a big piece, also perimenopausal women, it's like having to tune back into your body because your body is talking to you. And we have learned to mask. We have learned to keep, we're fine. Persia Lawson: Hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Joanne Fiddy: everything's okay. And it's her body saying, no, I'm not okay. I'm not okay. And your journey, I've been reading it, Love is Coming, have the book here. Such a powerful, powerful read. Because also looking at where it was set, you know, you wrote this, how many years ago did you write this again? Was it six, seven years? Doing the maths. Persia Lawson: So that was, that came out in 2021, that book, but I've been writing that really since I met my husband, actually even before I met my husband, because I'd sort of started writing what that book became. But then, because I'd started this coaching business with my friend, we did the inner fix and that was kind of with her. So that this book, that book was, I mean, really in many ways, decade, yeah, actually a decade in the make. I started a form of it in 2011 and it came out in 2020. Joanne Fiddy: Yeah. Mm. Yeah. Persia Lawson: one, which is again interesting because it's 10 years since the inner fix came out today. I've always been really fascinated with time and like, just like, I don't know, I always remember like, Oh, it's been a year since this, it's been 10 years since this. Don't remember what I did this morning, but I'll tell you what I did like 15 years ago on Tuesday, the 11th of May. Joanne Fiddy: Hahaha. No, completely, completely. And I feel like this book, it's such a love letter. It's such a love letter to your relationship and your story. And I know that you wrote this in your 30s and you have just entered your 40s. Congratulations, darling. Welcome to the dance floor. We talk about it being a brand new dance floor. And in your book, Love is Coming, is there anything now that you're in your 40s and you've obviously been in your relationship now with Joey, Persia Lawson: Yep. Thank you. Joanne Fiddy: Is there anything extra that you would like to add into this book now you're in your 40s? Or is something that you've learned in your journey? Because obviously you just met Joey in this book. Is there anything extra you'd like to add inside? Persia Lawson: Yeah. my God, much. God so much. I wouldn't even know where to start because we hadn't got married. We were supposed to have got married, but COVID sort of fooled those plans. So we hadn't got married. We've been now married coming up to four years. And I did actually touch on COVID because yeah, I actually really like did a lot of the editing of the book in lockdown. Joanne Fiddy: Yeah. Persia Lawson: But since then, I mean, it's really the things that have been happening in the last less than a year. And it's a lot been around family and unexpected things like that you just can't possibly imagine. Like I had this week in September that start last 2025 that started, know, everything was going really well. I was about to film this TV show and, finally the dreams were coming true and we've renovated our house and like life is fine. Like my husband was working in Morocco in a film job and everything was really great. And then the beginning September this week, my dad, the way that he stayed sober, he goes trekking in the mountains. And we've actually gone with him, like we saw Everest, it was amazing years ago. But he went missing in the Afghanistan earthquakes. And we couldn't get hold of him. we thought, it's probably just because, know, but Afghanistan, like of all the countries and all the times that he could have been there. So that was very disturbing. So we had to just go for that week and just be like, well, you know, we're sure he's fine. you know, we just had to. And then literally four days after that, I was at my parents place in London, White City, and they live on like the top, they live in like the top flat of this big building. And I woke up to a fire at 3am with my mum and it was fucking terrifying. It was terrifying. And so we thought their place had completely burnt down and it might as well have because they've had to move out of there and their apartment was right next to the fire. I mean, we saw it, it was like Joanne Fiddy: you Persia Lawson: it was a few meters from us and it was about 10 meters high. It was terrifying. And then two days after that, my beloved father-in-law got diagnosed with terminal brain cancer. And it was like, the rug just got completely pulled out. And it was always what I was afraid of is like, you finally get all of these things that you worked really hard for. then life just comes, like none of us know what's gonna happen. And I think that's the... Joanne Fiddy: terrifying Persia Lawson: You know, I do talk about this in both of those books, The Inner Fix and Lovers Coming, but God, it was a stark reminder of like, you know what? Anything can change like that for better or sadly for worse. And so it's been a reminder, like one day at a time, make the most of this day, work with wherever you're at today. some days you're better than others, but you just don't know what's around the corner. And you just don't know, like when you sort of think, I think things are hard now, you just don't know. So like just don't sweat the small stuff, which I'm not great at, to be honest, but I just have to keep reminding myself, like, you've got a lot of good stuff in your life and enjoy it be grateful for it. Just like I was in my bed this morning and I was like, I once dreamed of having a gorgeous bed like this. And I'm just in there and I'm like, just feel it and enjoy it because we become so normalized, don't we? Joanne Fiddy: No. Yeah, we do. Persia Lawson: these things that were once dreams of ours. And then just to touch back on what you were saying about the body. I mean, that has been a through line in both of my books. And again, right now, not only am I dealing with my father in law, terminal brain cancer, but back in 2019, my husband and I had a mushroom experience. And two things, I saw two very strong visions. I'm quite witchy as like anyway, but. I saw COVID, I didn't know it was COVID, but I was like, Joe, everyone's wearing masks and the world is like, everything is shutting down. And he was like, all right, you're crazy. And then when COVID happened, went, I fucking saw this. So that was another thing. It's like women, we are witches and like, don't ignore those boys. And then the second thing that happened was that I had this really strong thing of like, was like the mushrooms would tell it like, go to your abdomen, there's something going on, get it checked out. And I ignored that for a few years. And then I just couldn't stop niggling. And then I went and got it checked out and they said, Joanne Fiddy: Thanks Damn it. Yeah. We are. Persia Lawson: like, this is amazing that you've done this because you've got quite a lot of polyps on your gallbladder and they're okay now and we'll monitor them, but it can get very bad if, if it, they, you know, and what's happened two weeks ago, tomorrow, I went to, I went for, I basically got fast tracked to have a meeting with the surgeon and I wasn't, I just was trying not to think about it. I was like, I'm sure it's fine. And basically he said, look, they're growing rapidly and we've got to take your gallbladder out because we're concerned about what it could be. and then we'll have to send it off for tests. given everything that's going on with my father-in-law and like the MRI scans, last week I had to go for a CT scan, had bloody ink injected in me Got it done, got it done. But it's just been like, my God, you know, but that could have saved my life because you don't have symptoms and you don't know usually with that, with the gallbladder until it's too late. So I'm just like, my God, women, if you ever get an intuitive feeling, Joanne Fiddy: love. Yeah, I'm sure. Persia Lawson: Get it, like, don't worry about being seen as a hypochondriac, because that's what they, they did say that, like, they didn't say that, but they, I saw it in their fucking eyes. And then, and then they, when they saw the polyps, they were like, it's like, listen to women, because we do know. Joanne Fiddy: Yeah. We do know, do. Thank you so much for sharing. just my heart just goes out to you. I'm gonna be sending you so much love ahead of your surgery and so, so, so much love. And isn't it so interesting what you were saying about that witchy instinct that we have and that intuition and women's health. It can be dismissed because it's, oh, you're in pain and you're here. And I think many women listening to your conversation right now have been through it. Persia Lawson: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Joanne Fiddy: I think we've reached a point in our 40s and in our 50s where we have been through stuff, isn't it? And with our bodies, with what's going on in our lives, And it's having that inner strength and resilience to keep going. What do you feel like is your North Star in this moment that you're going through? Persia Lawson: what a great question. I am very much I mean, I've said one of them already, which is one day at a time, because when I start to think in the future, and all these things happening, it becomes very unmanageable. And also, you know, last night was on my husband's up at his parents, I'm going up this weekend. And he was FaceTiming and his dad who this time last year was absolutely fine. Like we had no we had no idea what was going on. and he can barely speak and it was, it really was, it's really painful and it's scary. And so again, coming back to what I said is just like one day at a time, be grateful for what's here now. And you know, we are so powerless. know, I, on the tap this morning, I did a, we're both rapid tapping pros obviously, and I just felt called to say the serenity prayer. And that really is it for me. Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change. courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to note the difference. And there's a second part, you're gonna like this. The second part that most people don't know is, grant me patience with the changes that take time, appreciation for all that I have, tolerance for those with different struggles and the strength to get up and try again, one day at a time. Like you got everything. Joanne Fiddy: goosebumps. Yeah. Persia Lawson: What else do you need? Like that prayer, the whole thing is just getting me through right now. It really is. Joanne Fiddy: Yeah. And having that ritual that you say to yourself and tapping that your body safe and just having that, think that's just such a powerful north star to have during this time. Cause life is, it is right. I think aging is such a privilege. It's such a privilege. And I think, you find, and talking about the women, you know, that you work with, I feel this is a bit of a bridge, isn't it? When you're going through such a tough time, you, you have this, in a way it's that gift of life is really precious everybody. Life is really precious. And at the same time, for women, they're told that they get made to feel like they're expiring. They're going into this pause. And suddenly there's that fear of aging, going into a perimenopausal state and that patriarchal, we've also got to be the patriarchy in. But that conditioning that we have where it's like, oh, hang on, should I just take a sidestep left now and just dim my light a little bit? Persia Lawson: Yeah. Yeah. Yes! Yeah. Joanne Fiddy: because I am getting older and then you have these moments. So for me personally, a very, very close member of mine passed away when she was 39 and I was about six, seven. And I feel that's been like an echo, like a little, even gets emotional talking about it. I it's just been an echo in my life that you realize that life is here to live. And yet for women, they feel they have to step aside and not live because they're told to pause in this pause years. Persia Lawson: Yeah. Yeah. Joanne Fiddy: What would you say to women that feel maybe for them, it's love isn't coming for me or it's what's the point? What do you feel based on the experience that you're having right now? Persia Lawson: I would say you are the point and your life is the point. And we don't know that we're gonna get another chance to experience life, certainly in this way, in this earth suit at this time. And like you already said it, Jo, like life is a gift, life is precious, but you make the meaning. Like we live in a universe of infinite possibilities, infinite possibilities. That is science, that's science, man. I'm not very scientific. Joanne Fiddy: Yeah. Persia Lawson: But this is it's really I've got an amazing coach at the moment I'm working with culture Shana Raven and and she's got this book called The Limit Does Not Exist and it's really been helpful for me at this time. I definitely she definitely came in at the right time for me because she she just reminded me about that that like you know what the pleasure out of all of the possibilities what are you choosing to focus on and the thing is what we will choose to focus on is what we are conditioned to focus on what we practice focusing on. So it starts with changing our mind, like changing our mind. A Course in Miracles, you know, talks a lot about this. It's like a miracle is simply a shift in perspective from fear to love. And there's a saying in there that, again, I've got a lot of North stars at the moment, but it says, only what I am not giving in any situation can be lacking. Only what I'm not giving in any situation can be lacking. So if we're going to apply that to like, you know, there are many, many women out there. who are not, and you're one of them, Joe, who are not choosing to see this as a pause, as they're choosing to go, I don't know how long I've got. That's the fucking reality. I don't know how long I've got. I don't know how long the people I love have got. I'm gonna make the absolute best of every moment. If this experience has taught me one thing, it really is that. Like, you don't have to take on this bullshit messaging. you get to decide, like, I love what you said about the 40s, welcome to the dance floor. And I was like, I've never left it. I met my husband on the dance floor, I meet all my favourite humans on the dance floor. But I love that expression, you know, I love that. actually saw Faithless play not long ago and gone as a DJ and you know, it's so, Faithless is amazing. I actually years ago, me and Joe met Maxi Jazz, Joanne Fiddy: Hahaha! faithless. Yeah. Persia Lawson: we were at a festival and yeah, he's just such a legend. But that whole thing of like, really, you know, there's an expression that is the first quote, it's a quote actually by the philosopher Ralph Waldo Emerson. And I opened my book, Love is Coming With It because I love a festival, I my husband at a festival and the quote is, life is a festival only to the wise. And I was like, that's really, like that's so profound. It's like, the way I see it is, You know, okay, you go to a festival and it can be the most amazing thing. The sun's shining, you're with your friends, you're drinking cider, you're dancing, everything's great. And sometimes you go to a festival and it's pissing with rain, your tent's got a fucking leak, the portaloos are vile. Like, fact is you're there. And I've, like, when I change my mind, instead of going, this is shit, this is shit, because I've been that person, I've like, I get to make the best of this. Like, I'm at the festival anyway. And I, you know, let's go into a tent because the thing about when it rains at a festival is everyone goes in the tent. So the energy in the tents is actually better than when it's summer, when everyone's outside, which is lovely, but you don't get the energy in the tents in the same way. So I'm like, you get to decide the meaning. You get to choose, like pick your adventure. You know, we've all been around those people and honestly, in many ways, like mine, I am not a naturally super positive person. I have to work really hard at this. My husband much more so is. Joanne Fiddy: Mm. Persia Lawson: But we are around those people who have allowed the world and the shit that's happened to them to calcify them and make them so bitter. it's understandable, but then you see the other people, the people, I love Corrie Tenboom and she was the woman who, she was in the Nazi concentration camps. Nazis kill her family in front of her. And then she chose to forgive those exact Nazis who did that because she was like, forgiveness, like I wanna be free of this. And she's like just. you read a book and the work she's done, it's like, see, that's what I'm talking about infinite possibilities. There are people who have gone through things that you and I can't even comprehend and have chosen to make the meaning of that, like not let that ruin their life, let them go and thrive, not even in spite of it, but because of it. And that's what I really take. And, know, I grew up with a very messed up childhood in many ways, but a lot of good things, but I was like, you know, my parents got sober and I'm like, they're my heroes and I choose to. Joanne Fiddy: Mm. Persia Lawson: make my life a beautiful work of art. Not perfect. It's messy as fuck sometimes, certainly at the moment, but I want to make the best of it because what else, like otherwise, what's the alternative? It's so depressing. I don't want live like that. I just don't want to live like that. Joanne Fiddy: Yeah. Yeah. It's so, it's so true. It's so true. And as you talk about with the festival and it's all of it is so true. And I think it builds it's Ellen Mills. She talks about being a queenager that how we are forged in fire and that makes us who we are, like forged in fire with that experience that we've been through and, and we're going in spite of it. And we are moving that life is a roller coaster. And I think, and look at your relationship. Persia Lawson: Wow. Mm-hmm. Joanne Fiddy: With Joey, I saw you talking about surrendering to the festival and is it me to man that can hold the fairy lights and your hand at the same time? Was that right? Can you talk me a little bit more about that? Persia Lawson: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it was actually that's gone sort of mini viral that one. And it was, marry the man. I've kind of like, it's really funny because when I was I used to be an actor when I was at Joanne Fiddy: Mm. Persia Lawson: university, I played the role of Miss Adelaide in Guys and Dolls. And she has this song that goes, marry the man today. And I just always remember those words. And I sort of accidentally started this series on Instagram, like every now and then when I remember to do it, like marry the man who, you know, whatever picks you up from the airport, whatever it is. But the one that the other day it was he was in our tree and you know, had some hard news about his dad and Joanne Fiddy: Yeah. Persia Lawson: in our tree and he was just wrapping fairy lights making we've got this beautiful magnolia tree making it so magical. And I was so, I just was like, he's still bringing beauty to our lives. He makes us a sauna every night. We've got this beautiful sauna and garment which has changed our life. Can't recommend it enough. And yeah, I was like, so the Instagram reel I did was like, marry the man who can hold grief in one hand and fairy lights in the other. And it was just like, you you choose to make, you're going to have moments of course, where you fall apart and that's part of it as well. Joanne Fiddy: Yep. Ugh. That's it. Yeah. Hmm. Persia Lawson: For the most part, you make the most out of it. You try and bring the magic wherever you can. like that is how we're getting through this at the moment. Like this weekend, it's his little brother's birthday and we're having everyone up to his parents where we got married, where we got engaged. They've got, where we spent lockdown and it's, they've got land up there and we're gonna do a little mini, not up, but we usually do a festival for charity. We're not able to do that this year, but we are doing a kind of, you know, like a sort of mini version of it and with like, I don't know, 30 of us or something. And we really need that. It's like, let's get the music on. Hopefully the weather will be nice. If not, we'll go in the barn and have a great time. We'll make the best of it, but just let's bring the magic because they need it right now. And actually we all do, we all do. Joanne Fiddy: Mm. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, we all do. We all do need the magic right now, my love. And you're, just you being on here, I've got to say, you're bringing the magic. You are bringing the magic. And I'm sure everyone who's listening to you right now is really feeling it. I'm really understanding what you're saying and just kind of really resonate with what you're saying. Let's talk about your festival and the festival that you have. So I really, I think there's women that are listening here and... Persia Lawson: Hmm. Joanne Fiddy: maybe they are in, I think we've got a whole range. I think the 40s and the 50s is a wild time. have, you know, women who are dating, women who have been through a huge breakup and they're going through, a divorce right now. And you've got women who are married. So I've got some questions for all of those, because I think we're going to cover them too. But talk me through your festival that you're doing within your work. Persia Lawson: Thank Mm-hmm. so, so because I'm last year, it was 10 years since I met my man at a festival and I knew that, you know, the TV show would be coming out. I'm trying to think, I think I came up with this, up with this idea before I got the TV show, but it's like, I've got my core program, which is love for leaders. And that's very much, I'm always been a high achiever and that's for women who very much identify as being achievers and you're going to get down and do the deep work. Joanne Fiddy: Mm. Persia Lawson: And that's, you know, that's my heart and soul. But I was like, I know I want to have one other space, just two spaces. That's more, that's, you know, lower investment. But it's like a really community led and it's just mindset and energetics around relationships. But really it's beyond that. It's not, it's, it's kind of life. It's like everything we're talking about of like, I'm going to choose to make my life about joy, celebration and magic as much as I possibly can. And so that's really the essence of that. Joanne Fiddy: Mm, yes. Persia Lawson: of that membership and we started last July and it has just been thriving. And so with the TV show coming out, we wanna be welcoming more women into that. just to like really come and experience what happens in life and in love, in all your relationships, when you decide to come from that energy, like even when the hardest things like we're going through at the moment. we still choose to come from that energy. And I'll tell you what, it's a lot better than the alternative, as I said earlier. And it's just been this really magical space. I do like a Zoom kind of gathering once a month, which is a training, like most days I do, we've got a telegram group, so it's like WhatsApp really. And I do like audio drops and we have different chats and different things and there's music. There's just all sorts of things. And it's just been wonderful, absolutely wonderful. Joanne Fiddy: Yeah. Yeah. a wonderful place for women to gather at their kind of their online festival with you. Someone who you really do walk your talk. You really do walk your talk with your perspectives that you're doing and how you feel and how bringing the magic and that energy of what is possible and focusing on that. I just, love you for it. I really, really do. And talk about for love for leaders. Persia Lawson: . Thank you. Joanne Fiddy: So do you feel for love for leaders? Is there a particular woman that comes in and maybe we're listening, the women listening to this now as they're driving or they're on their commute and they're going, yeah, this is me. What women are entering love for leaders and what are you noticing about them? Persia Lawson: Mm-hmm. Yeah, so women who are lovely. So yeah, high achievers, women, like quite a few of us are like, I want to win. We want to we want to be the winner of whatever it is and competitive. And a lot of these women are coming in because, you know, they might be thriving in their career, they might have CEO have their own business. I mean, we've had everything, doctor, politicians, journalists, like every, you know, and not not not everyone's Joanne Fiddy: Mm. Haha Persia Lawson: career is necessary. It's not like that's not for me. I'm like, you don't need to be like at this level, but you do have to identify with being an achiever and whatever field that is, because that's a very big part of it. And that's why, you know, most of them are single. Sometimes they come in and they're like, either like, should I stay or should I go? Like they're coming into the container to sort of work through that. Sometimes they're like coming in to work on their relationship or marriage, but primarily I'd say a good 80. Joanne Fiddy: Mm. Yeah. Mm. Persia Lawson: 85 % are women who are single and really want to meet what I call the true power couple partnership, you know. And so back in the 80s, there was that the term power couple and that basically was like a couple who's rich, famous, beautiful, successful, you know. And to be a true power couple, can absolutely be those things. But really, it's about, it was inspired by looking at my parents and like who they became. It's about the relationship is not just about externals. It's about who are you choosing to Joanne Fiddy: Yeah. Mm. Persia Lawson: be, be, what are you choosing to bring? What value are you bringing? So it's about giving, not just what can I get? Like, how can this be perceived? Because we've all seen the power couple celebrities and they don't last very long. If that's all that it's based on, you know, it's, if that's, yeah, exactly, exactly. ends up, you, you end up losing a lot that you came in with in a lot of those situations. So it was flipping that on its head and it was like, you know, I really believe in, know, I want to help women create women in positions of influence. Joanne Fiddy: Yeah. Yeah, high cost divorce normally. It's all over the Daily Mail. Yeah. Persia Lawson: in whatever, again, whatever spirit that might be on a global stage, that might be, you know, I've had women who are teachers or head teachers at their school. And it's like, you know, that's such an important role. You're like influencing all of these people. So it's really important. And so it's really, you know, I want them to be in relationships that are forced for good, not drama. And again, can be, you know, I've had women who get into partnerships that they become extremely film for. maybe because they're famous or they've become famous and they're very known in their world of work. Then, you know, I have women who they just like with their partner, they go and do like a charity run and you know, but it's something healthy and wholesome that they do. And I'm not saying that you it's not about I'm just gonna get in a relationship, we just become a do-gooder because I've got the festival and you know, that's why I'm like the love for leaders and festival is like basically me. It's like the high achiever. Joanne Fiddy: Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Persia Lawson: the success, you know, which has always been important to me. But then there's the festival, the magic, the fun, the playfulness. Like I love dancing. I've already done two festivals this summer and we're only in like mid-May when we're recording. yeah, it's those two spaces for me are, they really like, yeah, my heart and soul. Joanne Fiddy: I love it. And do you feel that maybe patterns for those women when it comes to relationships that their career is thriving and they notice that there is a gap? And if there's women that are listening right now, obviously go and see Persia Lawson. But is there any advice that you would like to give them where they're going and looking, you know, they're thinking, actually love isn't coming for me. And there is that quiet resignation where it's just not gonna happen. Persia Lawson: Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Hmm. Joanne Fiddy: It's not for me. I've reached a point now where I resign. I'm not going to look anymore. Persia Lawson: Hmm. Yeah. Which is basically a form of self-defense. Cause you think if I, if I, I'm just going to cut that possibility off so that I'm not going to get disappointed. But the thing is, remember we live in universe of infinite possibilities. Whatever you decide, it will become a self-fulfilling prophecy. So you need, if you actually really want that, and my, my feeling is like, who doesn't, I mean, of course there are exceptions, but most of us, certainly everyone I know, was like, we do want to have that deep love, that, that joyful. Joanne Fiddy: you Persia Lawson: partnership where you feel like a team where they're your rock, they're your champion and vice versa, you've got each other's back and life becomes like even more expansive when you're together. I've had women who have been single for 15 years, women who've never had a partner, women who are in their 60s, like leaving an abusive marriage, who are now in the most amazing relationships, married, traveling the world, having kids. I've seen it all. I've worked with that. You know, I've been doing this for Gosh, started working on myself, 2011 started on blogging and that sort of training and all of that in 2012. So I've been doing, can't, is it 14 years? Something like that. It's a long bloody time. I've worked with thousands of women at this point. And the ones, it's not your, it's not like your situation that is the problem. It's your perception of it. It's your story that you are making it mean. Joanne Fiddy: Yeah. Persia Lawson: So the ones who go on to get the thing they want, it's not that they were more beautiful or they had these external things that we think are what matters. It's that they just decided, they're like, I live in a universe of infinite possibilities. If it can happen for her, her and her, then that's actually proof it can happen for me. It's not taking it from me. And so I just say, get around, stick with the winners. There's an expression in 12 Steps, like stick with the winners. if you surround yourself with people, Joanne Fiddy: Yeah. Persia Lawson: who will always go, and I know sometimes we can't avoid this if they're in our family, but you can certainly limit access to you to a degree that you need to. But if you surround yourself with people who are so negative and who really believe in, don't believe in possibility and who will always look on the dark side of life, then unfortunately that's what's gonna rub off on you. Whereas if you get around people who, you know, expand and challenge your thinking and go and remind you like we are, we are existing on a ball that is like flying around space. You know, it's like, we shouldn't even be like, it's, it's insane that any of this works. Like, don't just like, sometimes I think, you know, we look at mortgages and tax it. We believe in all this bullshit that we've made up. Mortgages and taxes and like, Joanne Fiddy: Yeah. Persia Lawson: you know, like systems, we believe more in that than like the magic. And yet I'm, sat looking out at nature right now, outside my office window, my garden. And I'm like, like, you just look at nature, it's magical. It's insane. Like Marianne Williamson talks about like the, does the, you the embryo, there is a divine intelligence that enables the embryo to become the baby, the acorn to become the oak tree. Like there is intelligence in that and it's us who blocks it. Joanne Fiddy: cuddle. Persia Lawson: So get in the flow of life because because nature and life like that sort of operates. That's that's doing all right. It's us who fucks it up. It's the limiting and the the like negativity and the control. All of that is what fucks it up. So so stick with what is working. Stick with the winners. Joanne Fiddy: Yes, stick with the winners, stick with the winners. And I talk about, and I think it's gonna marry the harmony, it's gonna harmonize quite well with what you're doing. I always talk about your belief soundtrack. So your belief soundtrack is, you know when you were little, you used to like record the top 40 on cassette? Yeah, but not get the DJ. Yeah, you remember the cassette tape? Well, those are all our little beliefs that we were downloading about everything, know, life, love, and everything in between. Persia Lawson: Mmm, Those are the things! Yeah! Joanne Fiddy: And then even, know, especially in teen years as well. And then they become the soundtrack to our lives now. And so I always say, you know, if you can't find your rhythm in, you know, in your forties, fifties, in midlife, in peri, wherever you are, there's usually a belief out of tune. And then also kind of taking on board actually that peri-menopause is puberty in reverse. And I find that I'm working with a lot of inner teens are coming up. Persia Lawson: Yep. Joanne Fiddy: from that teenage years, how important do you feel beliefs are to how we are now? imagine that we're going through this inner, we'll feel a bit inner teens now, Alanis Morissette, how important is that to you feel in your approach to love? Persia Lawson: Yeah. They're they're everything. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the reality is that our reality is a sum of our beliefs. And that's really confronting. Like, I don't always want to know that because I like to know that when it's working for me, when something isn't working for me, I'm like, no, it's not safe. But it is, like, you get what you believe is possible for you. Because if you don't believe it's possible, not only will you not try, you will actually... Joanne Fiddy: Yeah. Persia Lawson: Like you will block it in obvious ways and very insidious ways that you don't even realise. Your beliefs and the identity that that shapes, like is your identity about someone who believes in lack, scarcity, fear, like you make your decisions and your choices from that place, or are making your decisions and choices for like best case scenario? You detach from, like what has happened in the past does not have to determine the future. Because if I believed that my past would have to determine my future and I looked at what I grew up with and some pretty dark things that happened and also my past behavior, like how am I with someone for 11 years, an amazing marriage and relationship, not perfect, but pretty bloody good, given that I was a full on cheating addict, I was a nightmare. And I had to change my mind about who I was. And therefore when I changed my mind about who I was and what was possible for me, I changed how I thought. which changed how I felt, which changed the energetic resonance I gave off, which changed the actions that I was taking, which then changed the results. It's the knock on effect, but it does, you know, it starts with the mind really, because I feel like, I mean, energy is the first thing you notice about people, but people's energy is a response of what they believe about themselves and about life. Joanne Fiddy: Yes. Yes, it is. Persia Lawson: Because if I said to you like, Joe, like, okay, you are like, just like physical, physicalize this, you are a person who believes that life is shit. gets harder and harder. You're not good enough. No one loves you. And yeah, it's all downhill from here. Like, there you go. Yeah. But how do you hold yourself? Yeah, that's all you'll see. Joanne Fiddy: Yeah. Yeah, that's all I'll say. Yes. It's all I'll say. Persia Lawson: How would you hold yourself as that person? Whereas if I said, Joe, your identity, you are a woman who believes that the best is yet to come. You live in a world of, I'm getting shivers. You live in a world of infinite possibilities. Magic is all around you. You just got to be open and receptive to it. Your best years are ahead of you. The better it gets, the better it gets. You are beautiful. You're amazing. You're talented. Everyone loves you. You're like, it's a completely different, like your energy completely, it's a completely different thing. So I actually. Joanne Fiddy: different shifts. completely. Persia Lawson: do think it starts with beliefs and with the mind, the energy follows on from that. Joanne Fiddy: Yes, yes, you could just feel the shift and let's say it is doing the inner work. It is doing that inner work and giving that inner team part of yourself a big hug and be like, we've got this, we've got this. And it doesn't, your past doesn't have to become your reality. And it's, love what you do with your work. I love that you do that with the work with the women is helping them with the inner work. Okay, something fun for you. I've got a couple more and then I'll release you to the world, but a couple more. Persia Lawson: Yup. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Joanne Fiddy: So looking at that teenage-esque side, are there any dating, and you're about, sorry, I'm jumping all over the shot because I'm very excited. So imagine that you are going fresh into the dating world. Yeah. You're in your forties, fifties, going into this dating world. And I've been, you know, I've been married before I've been divorced. And I know when I went back into the dating world, it felt quite daunting. And I thought there was loads of rules. So imagine there's, you know, if you're out there, you're listening right now and you're going back into the dating world. Are there any myths from the nineties and the two thousands that we need to put in the sin bin? that it's like, no, we're not doing this anymore. What would you say are your top five? Persia Lawson: Yep. Okay, I, funnily enough, I just brought up these slides that I've been making, because I'm making a free training at the moment. I can say what it's called, it's called Love Slut to Life Partner, when you and I, do remember when you and I were in Monaco on a work thing end of October, 2025, it was just after I finished the filming job, and one of our members, she said, oh yeah, I said to my friend the other day, you're such a love slut. And I was like, Joanne Fiddy: love you. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Mm. Persia Lawson: I've never, how have I never heard that? And I'm like, I'm stealing it. I was like, I'm such a lobster, to love. So anyway, this training and I was, I talk about the anti-dating matrix. Okay, that's what I'm all about. So basically the dating matrix says, you've got to chase love. You've got to like, it's a numbers game. You've got to perform. You've got to be like, you've got to control everything. You've got to force it. You've got to make it happen. Joanne Fiddy: Done. Hmm. Persia Lawson: Um, all the good men are taken, you know, or, um, uh, it's about being impressive. All of that shit, like what we are fed in the superficial swipe cut, everything's transactional. So what happens is that people go on these dates and they're performing that auditioning, there's no authenticity, there's no realness and everyone goes, everything. It feels so superficial. It's like only what you are not giving in any situation can be lacking. So you have to basically do the opposite of all of that. So it's about being present. It's about. Joanne Fiddy: Yeah. Mmm. Yep. Persia Lawson: bringing your truth, even if that means like you go on a date and you're like, listen, can I be honest with you? I'm feeling really anxious instead of like, yeah, I'm fine. And like really awkward, say, I'm really anxious. I haven't done this for a while or like, you know, I find these things quite awkward sometimes. And I remember doing that. The guy that I dated before my husband, I did the online dating thing once and it was so interesting because Joanne Fiddy: Yeah. Yeah. Persia Lawson: it completely broke the ice and like that's when we could actually connect. And he was like, you know what? I feel the same. And then it just completely relaxed us both. So it's the way that you relate and it's like everything we've been talking about, like bringing depth and bringing truth. Like this isn't about like oversharing your, you know, your most traumatic things unless like, you know, when I met my husband, I was at that festival talking about my book that was coming up the year after. Joanne Fiddy: Yeah. Mm. Persia Lawson: And so women kept coming up to me who'd been in that workshop crying and he was like, what the fuck is that? Who are you? was like, oh, well I'm writing this book. And because I'd done four and a half years of healing, I wasn't like telling the story of my parents for shock and to manipulate him like I used to with other men, if I'm honest. I was just like, I kind of, I'd alchemized it. I had integrated it. was able to like... Joanne Fiddy: Yeah. Yeah. Persia Lawson: talk about really deep things in a very relaxed way. And he was like, I've never met anyone like you. I've never met a woman who's just sort of like being able to talk about, yeah, I used to have a problem with cheating and blah, blah, and you know, like, and he was just like, what? Like no one would say these things normally, but it's like, actually, if you can just be real and you can be grounded and you can trust yourself and you're like, you know what? The right person for me, I am not going to ever meet them, see them or them see me. through bullshitting. Like that's not gonna happen. Joanne Fiddy: Yes. Persia Lawson: Whereas if you can bring the ugly parts of your past, but again, only when you've really like, you know, done the work around them. So otherwise you're not kind of like in the real, I'm not saying you can't say if you're having a hard time, but there's gotta be some level of discernment, like maturity around what you share when you don't need to share everything straight away up front. But that immediately sets you apart. Joanne Fiddy: Hmm. Persia Lawson: You know, we look at a business, it's like, what's the unique proposition? Like, what's the thing that makes you stand out? Why are you different from everyone else? Everyone at the moment in the dating matrix is trying to do that on a very performative level. Whereas the irony is the thing that's gonna actually make you unique and stand out is being real and dropping the fucking act. And also bringing that energy of magic and the festival as opposed to like, you know, cause that's something people can do on dates is. Joanne Fiddy: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Persia Lawson: yeah, ain't it awful. isn't this shit and that shit. you know, we can, it's very easy to cause people, know, especially in Britain, we bond over that shit. But actually you don't want to bond with someone over shit things. Like you want to, you want them to come away being like, I feel, I feel so inspired. feel like, well, what the hell just happened? Who the hell was that? That's what you want to leave people with. Joanne Fiddy: Yeah. Yeah. Ha ha! Yeah, yeah, so if you're going out in the dating world, be yourself, bring the magic. Don't feel you have to hide who you are. Be who you are and bring that magic. talking about magic, if, there any advice for any women and maybe they've been in their marriage for 20 years and again, it's that resignation, that invisible pause, know, you know, I don't feel sexy, don't feel, because I'm getting older. Obviously that narrative of what older is. Persia Lawson: Thank Joanne Fiddy: Do you have any advice for how to get that spark back in a marriage or confident in themselves or anything like that? Persia Lawson: You could. It starts with you. I mean, I've learned this in my marriage of when I was like, you when you normalize to each other and like, I miss the honeymoon and blah, blah, blah. And it's like, we've got to do this. Like, no, no, no, just you focus on you. Stop trying to make the guy do it or whatever. And honestly, when you focus on feeling great and you just doing what you need to do to fill yourself up. And that can be, you know, the inner, the deep inner work, but it can also be like, you know, anything from like, Joanne Fiddy: you Yeah. Persia Lawson: going and getting your nails done, like dressing up because we can get, certainly I can get very lazy and sloppy of like, just bombing around the house in bloody like sweatpants. And I'm like, why is the magic not here? Well, this is not how you started. Go back to what you were doing at the start. How were you operating with each other at the start? So for me and my husband, festivals, huge thing. We met at festival, we we re-fall in love. We have our best sex in a tent, always. Joanne Fiddy: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Love it. Love it. Persia Lawson: Go back to what you were doing at the start. it's, you know, the secret of, and this isn't even coming from, I've been with my husband 11 years, so it's a long time, but it's, you know, I go to my parents who are very much still in love. We've had a wild old time of it, but it's like, you have got to treat your relationship like an adventure. And like, you've got to keep falling in love with the same person again and again. But that starts with you falling in love with yourself, like, and... Joanne Fiddy: Mm. Mm. Yes. Yes. Persia Lawson: they will either meet you there or they won't like you can't you can't force someone to show up in a certain way but you can certainly inspire them so that starts with the energy of like what energy am i showing up am i coming from control look like naggy like which again is i'm really good at doing naturally but i'm like no i don't want to be that person like especially right now with everything my husband and i are moving through it's really easy to fall into that energy and i'm like no no no no I need to practice what I preach now more than ever when times are hard. I need to bring the festival magic. And that's why, know, this weekend, I'm like, what can I do to just bring some magic to all of us because we need it, not just me and my husband, but the whole family and like our friends, friends around us. So again, it comes back to only what I am not giving in any situation can be lacking. And I've just seen, I've just got, this feels like it's going to be done. I've just seen my friend gave me this festival hat. I mean, how much better is life when you've got Joanne Fiddy: Yeah. Mm. love it. So much better. Persia Lawson: I might just keep this on for the rest. don't even know if they're going to see this. Okay, I'm going to keep it on. Joanne Fiddy: Can you please keep it on? Please keep it on, please keep it on, please keep it on. It's gotta be done. I think this is about marriage. It's not the big fairy tale. It is the work, isn't it? It's not bright, shiny days all of the time. It's funny ways to bring the magic and it's loving in the tough times. It's when you are in your kind of holding hands, you're like just trying to get through it and being connected and knowing that you're with your partner. And I think I told you just before this actually. Persia Lawson: Mm-hmm. Joanne Fiddy: me and my partner have a bit of a joke. We said couples that shovel shit together, stay together. Because in the very beginning we were putting horse manure in the back of our car. Don't even ask, it wasn't my idea. And there was a sheet. But that's kind of what we do in those tough times. It's stay together and one of you, you do bring the magic for you and for your whole family. My love, your last question. I you've got the big project coming up as well. What are you pressing play on next? Persia Lawson: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. well, I think you've sort of said it there, my TV career. so you can go and have a look at it on HBO Max. it's called 90 Day Fiance, The Last Resort. It's an American TV show. And yeah, I'm like the dating and relationship expert in it. And it was filmed in Henry VIII's castle, actually, this is a great little tip. Henry VIII's castle just north of Bristol called Thornberry Castle. I didn't even know he had a castle. It's amazing. You can stay there. It's like super luxe. You can stay there. You can go for lunch. Like great. If you're in that part of the world, go and check it out. It's really magical. But yeah, I'm really excited because I used to be an actor and I, you know, I, I've had a dream of like bringing this work. Joanne Fiddy: Yeah. Yeah. Persia Lawson: mainstream for a long time and I have to agree but I knew TV I really wanted to move into TV and this time 10 years ago I actually had a TV deal with with my friend who I wrote my first book with and long I won't go into the whole story of it but we long story short we we walked away from it out of our choice and so this has been a long time coming I've had so many nimes I nearly got the dating relationship coach in Celebsco dating back in 2018 and I was so crushed when I didn't get it and then what I've realized is that like Joanne Fiddy: Yeah. Persia Lawson: It's, it's the same thing that I teach my clients of like, when you know, you can really want something. And I believe if you really desire something, that's because it's, it's meant for you. But the hard thing about manifestation is when you're in that annoying, like that thirsty desperate energy, you're not actually a match for that thing. When you can get to a point where you go, I really desire it. I will take the action that is like going to make me get, you know, the external and inner action as well, doing the belief stuff around that it's possible for me and all of that. But I also am. like surrender to how or when this comes about. Like I'd really got to point, I was like, I know it's meant for me because I wouldn't have this feeling if it wasn't, but maybe I'm meant to become like in my sixties. Like, that's until then, I'm just going to keep making great work. I'm supporting women. You know, I get to control my schedule. Like, like I'm going to just make the best and do my best. And it was like the minute that I had really genuinely, I wasn't pretending anymore. Like I genuinely believe that it came, which is exactly what happened with my husband where I was like, Joanne Fiddy: Mm. Yeah. Yeah. Bye. Persia Lawson: I know it's meant for me, I'm gonna have this amazing relationship one day. Maybe I'm meant to have it later on in life, I don't know. But in the meantime, I'm gonna make the best of everything. I'm gonna surrender the festival, gonna get on the dance floor and just enjoy life. And I'm not joking, I was on the dance floor. And when I really got that and I was dancing for me, instead of looking around at men and who was looking at me, in that moment, I had this feeling, said, turn around, turn around, and there he was. I mean, it was like the universe. I feel like... Joanne Fiddy: Yeah. Yeah. Persia Lawson: I was meant to do this career because it's like the universe has just given me so many crazy stories like that, that are, you know, but then I decide like this was meant for me and therefore it is meant for me because when you make the decision, life will kind of restructure around it for that to become the case. So you decide, you make them, you know, I want to leave really like cannot stress that enough. You get to make the meaning out of everything, including the hard shit, because there is going to be hard shit. That's part of life. None of us are exempt. There are no guarantees in life, but you get to make the meaning. You get to make the story. So decide to tell a bloody good one. Joanne Fiddy: Yeah, I'm just gonna mic drop right there and say thank you so much for coming on the podcast. This has just been such an incredible conversation and myself and all the listeners are sending you so much love, really so much love to you, especially over the next couple of weeks. And thank you again. Thanks darling. Persia Lawson: Hahaha! Thank you. Thank you babe. Thank you. Thank you darling.