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Tis The Season... For Weed and Booze · Millennial Mental Health Channel

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: All right, Eddie, what's your favorite Christmas movie? Welcome to MMHC,
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: your go to mental health podcast.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: I'm Eddie Coreo, a licensed professional counselor.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: And I'm Justin Romano, a Board certified child and Adolescent psychiatrist.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: We created MMHC to give listeners evidence based information directly
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: from professionals who work in mental health.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: We're not influencers, we're not trying to sell you anything.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: We just want to bring love, empathy, and understanding of
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: mental health into this world.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: And we really think that learning about mental health should
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: be fun, interesting, and most importantly honest.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: So thanks for tuning in. This is a show by
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: two millennials, but it is intended to be for everyone.
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: We hope you enjoy the show.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: Eeea, this is Cowboy Tom MMAC is a production of
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Speaker from My Heart Media.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: Oh. The Santa Claus. Oh yeah at the end. Yeah,
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: I don't know how I feel about Tim Allen anymore. Yeah,
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: but the Santa Claus was good. I think even I
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: not even think I know, I've even watched Santa Claus
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: two and three, and then Santa Claus four. Empire Strikes
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: Back was a good one. Uh. Prequels dude, it's I
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: feel like not a lot of people say the Santa
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: Claus for Christmas. There's other ones for sure that are
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: probably better, but yeah, I'll stick with that one.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: I'm a Grinchman myself, but I ask almost all my
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: patients because I'm curious. There are a few have said
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: Santa Claus this year, and so yeah, it's to make
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: it a comeback popular.
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: And you work with kids and teenagers, so of course
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: you're asking about it.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, it would be weird if I if I
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: was working with adults.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: No. Fine, did you ever hear that Jim Carrey had
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: to have like some like military cycle analytical person work
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: with him on like getting the suit and stuff for
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: The Grinch because he was like it was like torture
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: for him. You heard that.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was like eight hours in makeup every day,
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: which is just wild. And yeah, they brought in like
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: a torture expert from the CIA or something to try
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: and help keep him calm, just so that you wouldn't
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: lose it. And he almost like quit the movie.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because he was struggling, right, like you said not
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: he was not having a good time. Yeah, but he
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: made it.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: He persevered, He pushed through, and.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: Today's episode's about persevered.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: Today's episode is about thugging it out. Let's go, well,
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: hello and welcome to MMHC. We're so very happy you
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: have joined us. If you feel so inclined, we usually
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: say this at the end of the show, but we
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: wanted to say it at the beginning. Give us a
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: five star review. If you like the show, share this
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: with a friend. We got our Spotify wrapped stuff recently
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: and we were pretty big. Obviously, the United States is
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: our biggest country that provided us listeners, but you know,
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: we're pretty big in the UK. We got some Canadian listeners,
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: some New Zealand. Australia was in there in New Zealand,
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: so yeah. And then there was one non speaking, non
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: English speaking country and I can't remember which one that was.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: It was a weird one.
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: Did you check the Spotify wrap it up?
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: I did, but I don't remember there. Maybe I didn't
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: look at it that closely. Not for the countries.
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: Well, we'll post all that stuff later.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: But yes, today we're talking about the holidays, because yes,
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: it is Christmas time and around the holidays were often
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: reminded that people don't always like this time of year.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: Kind of similar to the Grinch, right, you know, the
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: Grinch had been doing Christmas for fifty three years and
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: he hated it.
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: I mean we were laughing and joking, but you're right.
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: I mean, you bring up a good point. I hadn't
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: thought about it until we started prepping for this episode.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: But yeah, not everybody has the fondest memories of holidays,
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: whether it's because of things growing up or things that
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: have happened recently, whatever it is, the holidays aren't that
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: cheery for every single person. So it's important to think
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: about it. It's important to it's a good reminder.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: And because sometimes the holidays bring about a lot of
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: trauma reminders for people friends and family who are not
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: there to celebrate. Plus there's a lot of just seasonal
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: changes too. I know in a previous Christmas episode we
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: talked about how a lot of the holiday traditions are
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: trying to like bite seasonal affective disorder. Like we bring
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: a tree into the house to try and bring some
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: nature and some pheromones into the house to try and
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: prevent depression. We add a lot of lights because it's
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: such a dark time of year.
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: So yeah, it's kind of a.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: Dark weird contrast between like it's supposed to be this
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: happy and everyone's loving it, but there's a hint of melancholy,
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: a hint of sadness and Christmas.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that seasonal effective disorder. Goddamn it. If you're
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: listening to this later, it's a remember twenty twenty five,
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: and it is every year it's a surprise. I don't
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: know why, especially in the Pacific Northwest. I feel like Colorado.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: I don't know how bad it gets there. I've heard
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: that Colorado gets a lot of sun in general, even
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: when there's snow, but man, Pacific Northwest, it is. It
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: is dreary. We just got hit with some atmospheric rivers.
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: It's felt made up. Yeah, a lot of rain, a
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: lot of cloudiness. It sounds like we're about to get
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: a ton of rain tomorrow. Yeah. That seasonal effective disorder
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: is tough. It comes. It feels like it's a surprise
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: every year.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: Before you know it, you're like, wow, why do I
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: feel so terrible?
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: M Yeah, well I haven't seen the sun in three months.
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: So that's it.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: That'll do it.
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: Here's your problem.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So we wanted to talk about one of the
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: major coping mechanisms that people use during the drug during
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: the holidays, and that is drugs and alcohol. That, yes,
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: it is a coping mechanism that a lot of people
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: use because it's readily available and a lot of people
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: have it during the holidays close by.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: About it too, like how much some of this something
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: like I want to say the two main substances, but
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: it's marijuana and alcohol, right, Those feel like the two
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: main Obviously there's harder substances that some people use, but
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: the two main ones in a lot of the country
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: are legal. Alcohol across the country, but marijuana uses is
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: way more legal than it was ten years ago when
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: it first started to really become legalized. Right with like
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: Washington and Colorado and Oregon coming in shortly after. I
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: think there's supposed to be something right with the current
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: president just wanting to actually reschedule marijuana right because it's
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: a Schedule one right now? Does that sound right? Am
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: I making that up?
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: That's what he keeps talking about, And I know Biden
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: had mentioned it in the past too, but just no
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: one seems to be doing anything about it. They're actually
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: making any moves.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: Well, something to consider it may get a lot more
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: legal here shortly, or we might make another four years
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: and it's not legal again. So anyway, that's the two
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: most readily available ones seem to be used by a
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: lot of people. And because it's legal, I think it
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: takes away a lot of that negative connotation with it.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: It's marijuana, it's alcohol, like it's legal. You see commercials
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: for it and not so much with marijuana, but there's
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: dispensaries everywhere. So because it's legal, it's fine to use right,
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: Like it's totally okay to use. But we really want
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: to talk about it in terms of a coping skill
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: and a coping mechanism. The analogy of kicking the can
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: down the road is huge, Like it's just when it
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: comes to coping and the use of drugs and alcohol,
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: you're just kicking the can down the road when you're
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: stressed out and you turn to marijuana, you turn to
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: alcohol or a nicotine vapor something else. You're really just
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: masking what's going on. And that's what's really tough, and
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: I think, especially for us working with teenagers, that's what
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: we really try to tell our clients and patients that like,
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: this is not a good way to cope with these things.
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  Speaker 2: Because you use, you're under the influence. You're under the
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: influence for a couple hours, three hours, whatever it is,
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: and then it goes away, and then the problem that
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: you we're trying to avoid it's still there. And then
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: it just like it sucks, and then you feel bad
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: because it's still there. And then what do you do?
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  Speaker 2: You use again, and then you use again, and it
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  Speaker 2: just turns into the cycle. It turns into a habit
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  Speaker 2: now that when I feel down or depressed or anxious
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: or stressed or angry, I turn to substance. And now
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  Speaker 2: this habit starts to turn into a dependency, and this
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: dependency starts to turn into a substance use disorder, and
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: trying to kick a substance use disorder it's really really
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: hard an addiction, for lack of a better term. So
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: I think that's a big reason why we wanted to
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: talk about it. It's definitely right now can be a
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: stressful time for a lot of people. I mean, it's
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: felt like the last chunk of time has been a
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: stressful time for a lot of people, but this time,
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: specifically with the holidays in mind, a lot of people
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: struggle because of the time of the year, and a
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: lot of people then turn to substances because of it.
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  Speaker 2: So we just want to shed some more light on it,
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: bring it to people's attention, understand that, you know, or
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: help us all understand that people might be dealing with
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: stressors in different ways that we're not always aware of.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: I wanted to add to your point too, where I
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: had a good friend in medical school that used to
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: describe drinking as drinking and partying doesn't really create any
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: more fun. It just steals it from tomorrow. And I
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: thought that was a really good way of putting it.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: And it's a good one.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: Yes, it is something that a lot of people do.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: And there's so much stress around the holidays sometimes too,
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: especially because so many people these days with the affordability crisis.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of financial stress on people too, and
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: a lot of pressure on parents to be able to
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: provide that stunning, that wow Christmas for their kids, and
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: it's hard and a lot of parents put themselves in
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: financial dire straits in order to provide that for their kids,
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: and it's just it's stressful. It's a lot on parents.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: I don't know, man, I just watched a presidential address
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: and I was told that inflation was down and prices
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: were down and gas is less than three dollars everywhere.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: That's bullshit. I just got gas together about three sixty.
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: So I don't know, man, I just calls it like
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: I sees it. And right now prices do not look down.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: Maybe you just don't need thirty seven pencils, you need
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: one pencil. Maybe less dolls, not getting as many dolls
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: this year.
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: Any I know that you have.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: Favor I'll try to work through that. I'm on track.
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: Sorry, I had to throw a little impression there.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: But overdose rates tend to go up during the holidays too,
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: and according to the Sunflower Addiction Treatment Center, this can
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: be as high as twenty two percent increase in those
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: overdose rates, which is a lot.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: If you think about it too, in terms of say,
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: during the year, someone is able to kind of just
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: cope and manage stressors like decently well right, like they're
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: not really turning to substances. But then you get to
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: a period of time in the year where you're a
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: lot more stressed, so you're struggling a lot more and
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: you do turn to substances. It could have been a
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: pretty big chunk of time the last time you really use,
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: so now your body is not as used to it
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: as it was before, and you try to use as
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: much as you usually do. That's when when overdoses can happen.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: I remember too to this podcast episode from Hidden Brain.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: You ever listened to that one? Yeah? Yeah, yeah. They
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: had one called the Lazarth Lazarus effect where they're basically
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: talking about the lock zone or Narcan and they're basically
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: making the argument of like, if Narcan is more readily available,
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: does that mean we're going to get a lot more overdoses?
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: And then they kind of went back and forth on
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: it and whatever. In the episode, they had mentioned that
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: there did seem to be a potential for people to
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: use more than they're used to because they know that
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: narkan might be available, But I think in the end
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: they toil. Ultimately, we're like, no, people aren't using to
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: overdose on purpose. It's still something that happens every once
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: in a while.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: So yeah, And like everything in medicine and public health,
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: it's kind of a risk versus reward thing. It's like,
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: you're probably going to save way more people with narkan
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: readily available than you would hurt. And I tend to
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: agree with that too. But yeah, if you give I've
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: actually not seen this firsthand, but if you give someone
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: who's overdosing on opioid's narcan. I mean, it's like whoo resurrection.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: They are right up and they're like, wait, what happened?
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: What's going on?
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: Because it's that full opioid antagonist, So it essentially reverses
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: the effect of the drugs.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's immediate.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really quick, and it's usually nasal too, so
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: it's straight to the dome.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: I see a lot of kids talking about drugs candidly,
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: which I always love when kids aren't afraid to talk
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: to me because they're like, ooh, you're an adult and
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: you're like somewhat of an authority figure.
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: I don't know how I feel about talking to you.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: But so many kids say something like when i'm high,
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: I don't have to think about what happened to me.
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: I don't have to think about my traumas. I don't
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: have to think about that stress of school, which I
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: think is an incredibly insightful thing. Like they realize that
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: they're essentially avoiding their problems a little bit. It gives
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: them a little bit of that time to say, Okay,
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: I have a little time where I do not have
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: to think about this, So I bring that up to say,
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: there are a lot of reasonable expectations why people start
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: using drugs. It makes you feel better in the short term,
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: but yeah, like you said, with kicking the can down
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: the road, it tends to make a lot more problems
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: in the long run.
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: I tell students all the time too, our in our
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: early psycho educational drug and alcohol program that we have
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: at the school, I can listen to the reasoning of
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: why you have used substances and it makes total sense.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: You feel shitty, you want to feel better. This makes
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: me feel better right away. On the surface, that makes
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: a ton of sense. Yeah, but then when you think
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: about it more, I am an adult with a semi
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: fully functioning brain, and I can also see a little
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: bit into the future of like, also, this is not
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: good for you or your brain development, Like we need
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: to we need to cut back on this. Not because
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to be a stickler or I'm mad at you,
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: or I want you to be in trouble, but because
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: I want you to be okay when you're older. I
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: saw an article that I feel like it wasn't. I
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: can't remember what article specifically, but it basically said teens
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: who use marijuana by the age of fifteen are more
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: likely to have other issues later in life, whether that's
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: cognitive issues, legal issues, behavior issues, You're just more likely.
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: Which to read it in an article is like, yeah,
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: no shit, Like that kind of makes sense. But I think,
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: you know, I guess it's good to have the peer
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: reviewed backing of it, right, you know what I mean,
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: Like it just kind of like I read it, I
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: was like, yeah, no shit, but I don't know, it
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: is good to put out there.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: And I remember doing some research on this, I think
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: it was for one of our episodes almost six years ago.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: Now that like a lifetime of cannabis use can knock
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: off about seven IQ points. It can really impact your cognition.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: So there's just a lot of different things and a
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: lot of stuff we still don't really know about those
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: long term effects of really street drugs or a lot
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: of prescription drugs either. That's and I listened to that
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: podcast you sent me on over prescribing of medicines in
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: America and agree with it so much like we are
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: essentially trying to fix society's problems with more pharmaceuticals, so
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: like people are struggling, and instead of actually fixing society's problems,
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: we're like, take a pill and try and fix it
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: a little bit. And just tens of millions of Americans,
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: if not more, are on prescription medications, and we don't know,
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: like a lot of the studies on these have been
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: very short term. We don't know long term effects really
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: all that well, which is kind of scary because there's
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: there's millions of people on these things.
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, let me shout out the episode, since we you know,
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: we like to give shoutouts here and there. The Journal
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: by the Wall Street Journal on Spotify and probably Apple
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: podcasts too. They released an episode early December. It's called
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: is America On Too Many Psychiatric Drugs? So of course
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: I had to send it to Justin after I listened
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: to it because it was an interesting episode. I didn't
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: know that about benzos. Benzo dazepines, you're not supposed to
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: take it for very long. And then there's people who like,
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: I've taken this drug for fifteen years.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: And there were some old school psychiatrists that just threw
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: benzos around like candy because they didn't really.
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: Know yet how bad it was.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: But there was one incidence in residency where luckily this
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: didn't happen to my class, but an old school psychiatrist
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: retired and gave all his patients to the residents, and
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: almost all of them were on like super high dose benzos.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: And so that entire class, literally their entire third year
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: of residency was just trying to get people off of benzos,
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: which takes a long time. It can take years. So, man,
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: it's a mess, and sometimes psychiatrists have not had the
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: greatest track record for actually helping people.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: Damn it.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: Justin I know, try to change that, man, change at
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: the camera. We also want to give you guys a
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: little bit of information on just the genetics of substance US.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: I'm sure many of you guys have heard that it
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: is a heritable thing. It is a genetic thing. And
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: of course, to the American Addiction Centers, there are more
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: than four hundred different gene locations that have been identified
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: so far that are tied to addiction smoking and alcohol use.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: And then many of the addiction genes are directly involved
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: with how your brain responds to and processes dopamine, which
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: makes sense considering our reward in addiction pathway is built
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: on dopamine, which also makes sense why some people they
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: try something one time and it's like the greatest thing
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: on earth, Like it is just set off this cascading
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: effect that's very difficult to stop. You've probably heard of
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: people in your life too, I mean both of us,
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: either going through college or just in our adult lives,
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: of people who yeah, I tried at one time and
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: that was it, that was enough, Like it just I
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: was hooked. Yeah, it's tough because you don't know that
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: you don't know, you don't necessarily know that you're going
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: to react in that way until it happens. You could
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: have a potential genetic predisposition to it. But if your
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: parents don't use anything, or don't use substances, or have
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: never used or never really talked about it, you have
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: no idea. And then you go to college for the
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: first time you're an adult, you go to a party
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: and completely can change the trajectory of someone's life without
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: even realizing that it was going to.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: And that's why methapvetamine is so addictive, because it just
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: floods your reward pathway with more dopamine than you could
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: ever have in a natural setting. So no wonder people
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: keep chasing that feeling because it is the best they
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: have ever felt in their entire lives by far.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Do you remember the analogy or the phrase that
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: people use with meth uh and chasing the dragon forbidden Dragon? Oh? Yeah, yeah,
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: I remember that from my treatment of chemical dependency class.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: I watched a bunch of documentaries, but one was kind
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: of specifically on Portland, which is kind of wild because
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: when they were like showing some of the shots there filming,
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: I was like, holy shit, that's voodoo donuts. But then
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: I think there's another one specific in myth. But yeah,
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: chasing the Forbidden Dragon. They're essentially trying to get as
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: high as they did the first time that they use math,
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: which is impossible, just cannot happen, like physically, chemically, chemistry wise,
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: it's just not possible. I can't explain why it's not possible,
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: but it's just not possible.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: Well, you build up a little bit of a tolerance
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: to it. You could even fry some of those cells
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: that make dopamine. So there's a couple of different chemical
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: and neurological changes that can happen.
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: But yeah, you're right.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: Unless you go through like a really prolonged period, like
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: years of not using, you're never gonna get that feeling again.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's hard, man. Drug addiction is is tough, not
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: just on the individual but on the families too. It's
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: a lot, it's a lot. But let's nerd out a
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: little bit. What do you got for me for stats
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: and facts?
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: Stats and facts.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: According to the National Institute on Drug Abuse in twenty
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: twenty one, so this is prime pandemic time, more than
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: forty six million people in the US age twelve and
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: older had at least one substance use disorder. So that's
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: almost one in five US Americans had use substance use
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: disorder during the pandemic and only six point three percent
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: received treatment. Man, that's nothing, right, Like, no one is
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: getting treatment for this.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh my god, what I don't even want to
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: do the math. That's depressing. Yeah.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: I just read a really good autobiography called Casher in
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: the Rye, not Catcher in the Rye, but it was
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: by a guy named MOJ. Casher, and he was talking
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: about how essentially he was a full blown drug addict
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: by the age of sixteen, and he got to a
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: point where he was tired of his life just going
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: down the tubes. He was tired of having terrible relationships,
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: and he had the strength to be able to check
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: himself into rehab. And it took a couple of different rehabs.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: But I'm like, at sixteen, to have that insight to
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: say like, Okay, I don't want this for myself anymore,
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: that was huge. So shout out to moj Casher and
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: I think, well, he's actually got kind of like a
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: famous wife that a lot of people have actually heard of.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: Natasha Lagero is his wife.
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: No clue I knew.
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: I wasn't going to but yeah, if anyone wants a
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: really good book about substance using young people, I've actually
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: recommended it to a few patients and parents of patients too.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: It's a really great understanding of what's going on in
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: the mind of a young person who's really struggling with drugs.
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: One last stat in fact for twenty twenty one is
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: that unfortunately, about one hundred and seven thousand people died
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: from overdough So this is, like you pointed out prime
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: middle of the pandemic, right. I think I've mentioned it
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: in previous episodes where the calling in of the National
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: Eating Disorder hotline like skyrocketed during the pandemic, so I
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: can only imagine. I don't know if they're on par
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: with each other, but for sure, like those things shot
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: through the roof, and I'll even I've shared it before too,
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: so I don't have an issue with it. I mean
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: even my own time during the pandemic, I remember just
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: every day was something different, just trying to figure out
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: what the fuck is going on. I had no idea,
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: trying to go to work, not knowing what I'm doing,
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: not seeing Kevy for a while, and not seeing my
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: family for a long time, and I remember I would
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: get home and I would I basically got into this
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: habit of like I'd drink at least a beer, maybe
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: two beers, and I remember I did it for like
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: a couple of weeks and relazing like it's only two beers,
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: but I feel like shit, like this sucks, and like
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: having to stop myself of like, yeah, I'm not doing
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: this anymore, like this is not But not everybody has
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: that opportunity, and not everyone is lucky enough to be
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: able to just kind of stop like that in the moment.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: But for sure, even for me, like it was definitely
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: something that I noticed my own substance use started to
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: creep up a little bit. And it's not like I
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: was excessively drinking like what we were in college injury
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: grad school, but it was enough to where I was like,
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: this is this is too much, This is more than
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: I need to be doing. So I gotta I gotta
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: cut that out. Yeah, something that I wanted to talk
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: about too specific, the substance use was just I mean,
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: for lack of a better word, like something that has
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: been interest to me. And the lack of the better
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: word is the interest part. I don't know if interested
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: that maybe important, Like something that's been impactful for me
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: in my life. I don't know, has just been substance
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: use in the Latino Mexican community. And maybe this has
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: been a subconscious thing in my mind that that's why
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: I've been so like passionate and like interested in working
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: with substance use disorder and why it's so important to
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: me with teenagers. It's just how like rampant substance use
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: is in the Latino and Mexican community. So I want
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: to drop some stats in fact and then talk a
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: little bit first one I'll say is that about twenty
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: one percent of Hispanic and Latino people ages twelve and
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: older have reported using drugs in the past year. This
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: includes any illicit drug and this is compared with some
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: of the other ethnic and racial groups. There's estimates that
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: suggest around seventeen percent of Hispanic individuals may have had
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: a substance use disorder in the past year. It is
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: about nine million people. Not surprising to me. Marijuana and
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: alcohol the most commonly used substances. I put for and
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: I do mean for us, for the community, for the people. Overall,
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: nearly half of the Mexican adult population reports current alcohol use,
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: which is about forty eight percent, and many also report
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: excessive drinking, which is about thirty five percent. In recent years.
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: If we look at Mexican adolescents, around twenty point six
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: percent have consumed alcohol, with thirteen point nine percent reporting
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: excessive use in the past year. Research also suggests that
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: Mexican Americans tend to have higher rates of alcohol dependence
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: and consumption volume compared to some other Latino subgroups in
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: the US. Ultimately, I think what a lot of it
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: comes down to is that in our community, alcohol use
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: substance use is normalized, it's glorified, it's just a regular thing.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: Growing up, I always heard about the first time that
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: a family member drank. They were six years old, seven
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: years old, the first time they had a beer, right,
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: they already had a mustache, so might as well have
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: a fucking corona to go with it too. And I
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: think it's one of those things that it's so normal
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: as and glorified that that's where we kind of run
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: into issues. There's always the jokes of like a meme
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: of a Latino Mexican family in Costco and they have
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: a flatbed cart and it's just filled with cases of beer.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: You're like, Oh, what's going on? Is there a wedding
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: or something? Nope, just my son's second birthday. And it's like, haha,
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: that's great, that's funny. I laugh at it every time too.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: But then it's like, damn, we do be drinking a lot.
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: Like it's not even like it's it's a lot. And
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: I don't know if if scientifically, genetically or whatever, Mexican
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: Latino people are able to just drink more, but we
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: just drink a lot and it's very glorified. Drinking is
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: a very central part to social gatherings. There's a ton
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: of jokes related to a ton of memes related to it,
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: but I don't know if I can really think about
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: a gathering, a celebration, or anything that does not have
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: alcohol in it. And this is not to shit on
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: my family, is not to ship on my people, is
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: not to ship on the community. But it's something that
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: we should probably consider and think about that we do
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: normalize it quite a bit, like it's a pretty regular
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: and accepted thing that we just drink a shit time,
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: like that's just it just is. So I feel like
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: that's something I would like to see improved on. I
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: don't know where we start, but it is something that
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: I think is a concern to me and concern to
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: other people, and something that I've just probably has impacted
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: me subconsciously for a long time and probably kind of
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: help steer me in the direction that I am today
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: with my passion for working with substance use and just
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: mental health in general with a lot of our minority populations.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: Well, for sure, thanks for talking about this stuff, and
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: I always love it when we could make it somewhat personal.
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: In this country, we're always advocating that Mexican Americans and
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: Latino people in general get help for their mental health,
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: and I think a big part of that is being
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: able to come out and just have that basic conversation
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: talk about how like, yeah, it is a big part
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: of the culture Wyoming. Coming from Wyoming, like, Wyoming is
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: a heavy drinking state, And when I went to college,
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: it was a very heavy drinking school, and it was
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: like that was what you did, Like, if you want
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: to go out and socialize, you drank. And as I
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: got older and got farther away from Wyoming, I started
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: to realize that not everyone is like that. And my
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: parents told me that when we first moved to Wyoming
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: from California that they were like, wow, everyone here really
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: drinks a lot. So yeah, it's so very culture dependent,
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: and you know, it's hard to understand why. I've kind
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: of thought about, like from an evolutionary standpoint, why is
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: drinking such a common thing?
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: And I wonder, I.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: Don't think there's any real good way to study this,
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: but I wonder how many births on Earth are due
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: to alcohol or had some involvement in alcohol. And I
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: think it really helps people lower down their defenses, It
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: helps them be more social, it helps them connect with
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: other people. Sometimes there are maybe some good things with it.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: But I think alcohol just helps people have more babies.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: And so that's why as humans we do it all
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: the time.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: I think two of just how much like things end
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: up like normalized, like through commercials and through like pop la, right,
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: Like that was a huge thing with cigarettes, and it
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: wasn't till people really started to turn on cigarettes that like, oh,
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: now that the numbers have plummeted. But alcohol, I mean
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: there's the there's commercials all the time. I've talked to
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: you about the cores Light one from back in the
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: day with the with the silver bullet, or the bud
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: Light one with the twins, right, stuff like that. I
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: saw a TikTok the other day that talked about the
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: famous Corona commercial where there's the palm trees with the
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: Christmas tree lights. Yeah, and the Christmas lights and the beer.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: Apparently that that commercial has been running for thirty plus years. Yeah,
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: long time, as old as fuck, right, And these are
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: just things that are very normalized. Do you go to
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: Buffalo Wild Wings what's what's Buffalo wild Wings slogan? Beer
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: wings sports something like that? Yeah, right, So I think
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: I would. I would probably say that's probably a piece
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: to it too, is the just like the normalization of
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: it through commercials and popular culture.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: Plus I feel like there has been more specific Latino
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: oriented drinking commercials like what is it Modello like Sign
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: of the Fighter or whatever, and like this, like yeah,
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: Mexican fighters and Latino like. It just feels like it's
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: it's very much more targeted at Latinos more than ever before.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: Too. That dose Eki's man the most interesting man in
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: the world. Hey, I was fucking with dose Eki for
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: a while just because of.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: That powerful advertisement.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: Very powerful these advertisers and should know what they're doing, right,
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: and they know what they're doing.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, They've got lots of market research to tell them
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: exactly what to do.
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: So some discussion questions two parter, do you know anyone
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: in your personal life who struggled with addiction and how
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: did it change your relationship?
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: I saw this question earlier and I had to think,
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, I think honestly multiple people have to
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: really reflect back and yeah, either through like friends, family,
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: just seeing that growing up and now also being able
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: to look back and be like wow, like that was
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: a little too much for that person to be drinking
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: at that time, right, like that we maybe should not
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: have like made it such an okay thing. So I
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: guess for the first question, yes, for sure. Second thing,
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: how does it change your relationship? I think it's it's
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: hard because like you just don't always like know what
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: to do. You start to pick up on like when
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: they maybe are versus or not under the influence, you
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: see changes in the person. Relationship probably gets less close,
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: right just because they're they're probably preoccupied with other things.
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I don't know, it's tough. I think it's
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: tough too because when you think back to like our
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: time in college. You talked about Wyoming for a little bit,
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: and I think back to my time in college, like
• 30:49
  Speaker 2: we definitely we were drinking an unsafe amount, right Like
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: that's like that was bad and there's definitely we probably
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: could have could have qualified in some type of for
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: some type of issue. So I think the issue drinking
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: or the negative what phrase am I trying to use,
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: Like the problem drinking was definitely a lot more prevalent
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: when we were like in college and stuff, then we
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: probably would like to admit, I think we definitely have
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: known a lot more people who have struggling with addiction
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: than we maybe realized at the time and could probably
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: reflect back and just be like, oh shit, like that
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: that wasn't so good. Yeah, what about you. Yeah.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: I had some friends growing up who struggled with addiction,
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: and it definitely created a wedge.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: In our relationship.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: Like one of my friends who I was really good
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: friends with, was hanging out with almost every single day
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: because he was a close neighbor. We both we got
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: in trouble when I was in ninth grade. We got
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: in trouble for experimenting with stuff. And for the sake
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: of my career, I'm not going to go too far
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: into what we were doing, but that experience changed me
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: and it made me scared, like it really put the
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: fear of God into me. And I didn't do anything.
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: I didn't experiment with any drugs or alcohol for the
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: rest of like junior high, high school anything because because
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: of that event. So it kind of scared me straight.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: But he went farther off the deep end, and it
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: just seemed like every time I saw him, every time
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: I hung out with him, it was like, Okay, it's
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: getting more and more and more and more. Yeah, and
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: I had mentioned on the show that I actually found
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: out earlier this year that he had passed away, and
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: so that was just I hadn't heard from him in years,
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: and when I did hear from him, he was usually
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: just kind of talking about drugs. Like I got this
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: random text from him saying, like, come to California. The
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: weeds so awesome, and I'm like, dude, I used to
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: live in California. I've been there, and I don't really
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: do that, and so like it just, yeah, there was
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: a wedge in that, in that relationship. And it's such
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: a strange dichotomy because on one hand, and I'm thinking,
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: like I would have done something if he would have
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: reached out, I would have tried to help him. But
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: on the other hand, when you're working with people with addiction,
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: do you understand that you really have to have some
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: solid boundaries up or else sometimes they can walk all
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: over you too. And so a lot of conflicting ideas
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: in my head of like, man, I wish I could
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: have helped him. I wish I would have helped him,
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: but I didn't know, And what was there anything I
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: could have done? Man, there's just too many questions to ask.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: No addiction is tough, man, Like, it really is. I mean,
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: it's kind of simhar that makes me think of like
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: eating disorder treatment of there's a big kind of phrase
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: of like if you wait for someone to be ready
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: to change, you're going to be waiting forever. It's really hard.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: I also wanted to understand that you can't always work
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: harder than the person, right, And that's a really hard
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: space to be in, especially if you're a carrying person
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: with some empathy or just a regular person with empathy.
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: It's hard to feel that way. And so that's kind
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: of to your point of like getting not that I
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: like the idea of scaring straight, but having that one
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: interaction of that one instance where like, oh, I never
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: want to do this again. That's what makes me hopeful
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: with a lot of our kids and a lot of
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: our students and teens that we work with, is that
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: like it's one of those like we still have an opportunity,
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: even if you've made a bad decision or multiple bad decisions,
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: to kind of write the ship and get you in
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: kind of on the right path.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: What do you think how do we change the way
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: our society deals with substance use? What's your big idea.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: I think my big idea, I got a lot of
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: big ideas. I think that where we run into a
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: lot of problems is that a lot of people will
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: assume that someone who's struggling with addiction or substance use,
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: it's their choice, and like they like they're they're choosing
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: to be struggling so bad. And I think it's it's
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: a lot more nuanced than just like a yes or
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: no question, or yes or no choice. So I think
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: we really started to look at it as a medical problem,
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: as a disease, as an issue, and less of like
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: a personal choice that someone makes every day that might
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: help a lot, or might help at least a little bit.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: But it's just tough, right, Like I think people's threshold
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: for empathy is so low nowadays. Like people, it's really
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: hard to care about other people. It's really hard to
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: not just want to focus on yourself, right, So to
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: ask someone to care about other people. I mean, I
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: live near Portland, dude, Like every day on the news
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: there's something about Matthews and homelessness and feenanel use and
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: this and that, and people just like having zero fucks
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: about human beings. They just don't care, and that's really hard.
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: You know. Thankfully there are still people that care, and
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: there's programs and things that people can get help help in.
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I think if people, if people were to
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: wake up tomorrow and just the idea that like, oh yeah,
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: substance use, an addiction is a disease. We need to
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: treat it as such and not just a singular choice
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: that people make, we might be in a better spot.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: But even then it's a tall task.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I watched an interview recently with Bam Margin,
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: the guy from Jackass, Oh yeah, and to kind of
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: give you an idea of how hard it is to
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: come off of drugs and alcohol. He was talking about
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: how someone asked him.
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: Like, what's the worst pain? What's the worst thing?
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: After all the Jackass stunts, after everything you've done, what
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: was the worst And he said alcohol withdrawal. He was
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: like in a place where he was having to detox
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: and they didn't give him much help or much and
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: much medical support. And he said that was by far
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: like the worst thing that he had ever experienced. It's
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: it's miserable. It's hard, like once your body gets used
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: to that, once your body needs that, it is incredibly
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: hard to just stop it all quickly, and it makes
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: you very, very sick. Between alcohol and drugs.
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we tell I mean, I tell kids a bunch
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: like alcohol withdrawals can kill you. Yes, fortunately like these withdraws.
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: Maybe not so much marijuana use withdraws, but other substance
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: withdraws can kill you. And it's really scary, and there's
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: not a whole lot that could be done, like while
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: you're doing the withdrawal. I think to from that episode
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: we mentioned earlier from the Journal that benzo dazepine withdraws. Yeah,
• 37:05
  Speaker 2: that sounds fucking awful, dude, Like, oh my god, someone's
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: been taking this drug for ten fifteen years. Oh just man,
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: that was I was. I think I drove with like
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: my mouth like open the whole drive to work. I
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: was like, what the what we did? What we're doing? What? Oh?
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: For sure? Yeah, learned in residency the three withdrawals that
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: can kill you, or the three bees, booze, benzos and barbituates.
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: Baby, that's a barbituate. That's a bath word.
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like pino barbitol. It's like an it's like a
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: similar to alcohol and benzos. We don't use them too much.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: Anymore in medicine these days.
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, is it? Because would you say that like an
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: alcohol and alcohol like alcohol and I'm assuming benzo, they're
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: like kind of like a downer medication or downer substance,
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: right that they like slow down your your bodily functions.
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: Is that where barbituates do too?
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they all work in very similar ways. They increase gabba,
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: which is a neuromodulator, an inhibitor. It's a calming thing,
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: so that that's essentially how they work. They're incredibly effective,
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: but incredibly addictive.
• 38:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: Well, let's jump to some resources here, so if anyone
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: needs them, here are some of our favorite resources.
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: And it always depends on.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: The area that you're in and everything can be different,
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: but here's some that almost everyone listening, maybe except for
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: you Australians down there, you can't use any of these.
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: But we have the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: Administration what we call SAMSA. They have a website that
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: you can look up. Their phone number is one eight
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: hundred and sixty six to help. The nine eight eight
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: hotline is always a really good idea for people struggling
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: with mental health. Suicide thoughts any of that kind of stuff.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: And a good reminder to the National Hotline. The nine
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: eight eight is similar to nine to one one where
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: you call and it gets you connected to resource that
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: are near you and not just like connect you to someone
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: in Alabama if you're calling it from Portland. So we
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: got fine treatment dot gov. That could be a good
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: place to actually find a substance use treatment center. I
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: will say, and I have to acknowledge teen and adolescent
• 39:14
  Speaker 2: treatment can be kind of tough to find. Unfortunately. I
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: remember running into this early on in my career in
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: the mental health clinic that I worked in. Finding a
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: bed in a in a treatment center for a teenager
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: can be pretty hard. Yeah, if there's not if there's
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: not beds or programs available.
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: Well, and I felt so bad leaving Australia out I
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: looked up a number. It's for the National Alcohol and
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: Other Drug Hotline. One eight hundred two five oh zero
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: one five.
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: So thank you for doing that.
• 39:45
  Speaker 3: Let's go, you're well, love it.
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: Some last couple of things for help. I mean, we
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: understand and we say this acknowledging that there's privilege in
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: this because Justin and I feel like we have these
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: things readily available but if you are someone who is
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: able talking to a doctor, finding the therapist for sure
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: can be helpful. And really the main point that we're
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: trying to get at is not to keep holding it in.
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: That's what's really hard. When people are battling and struggling
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: with things by themselves, it's hard. It's hard to help
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: people don't know what they don't know. So if you
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: have people in your life that can be a support
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: to you, please consider reaching out. Please consider reaching out
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: to one of the hotlines or supports that we've listed.
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: Trying not to keep things to yourself, because the more
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: you can ask for help, hopefully the easier things can get. Yeah,
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: thank you all for listening. It's December twenty twenty five.
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: Happy holidays. We'll be back maybe in the new year.
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: Is that going to be our next episode? What's the
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: fourteen day? We're probably not going to record on New
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: Year's Eve? Right, what do you think?
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll pass it.
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll see you guys in January twenty twenty six.
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: It's currently December twenty twenty five. Happy holidays everyone, you
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: know where we find us. We'll play it out as usual.
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, you can leave us a five star'd review.
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: We'd love it if you did share, send it to
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: your friends. Thank you all for being supporters. Thank you
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: for another great year. Six years as done. We're looking
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: on the year seven. See what happens next. We appreciate
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: you all again. Happy holidays, Stay safe out there during
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: the winter, and remember take care of all mentals. Happy
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: kwanta ooh, and hanukkah.
• 41:18
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• 41:21
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