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384- The Expert Blindspot That Cost Everything w/Bob Berbeco · You've Been Heard

• 0:09
  Speaker A: Bob, welcome to. You've Been heard. You're number two. You're like number two. I mean, I believe I might have lost. I might have lost track here. After 380 episodes, we were. We're no longer dissecting popular IT nerves. We are. You've been heard. We're going to get deep into IT in a second, but introduce yourself, tell everyone about you, how you got started, where you're at.
• 0:29
  Speaker B: Let's go. Absolutely. Sure thing. So right now I am the Chief Information Officer at Mahasca Health and I lead the organizational organization's information technology, data science, artificial intelligence, cybersecurity and informatics strategies. And all I do is ensure that all those things are seamless as we're looking to enhance patients, patient care and operational efficiency. So I have it from end to end, all the technology. And prior to Mahaska Health, I've been a senior leader in healthcare technology for numerous years. I've done predictive analytics, process optimization, change management, service line administration, business intelligence, data governance, experience design, demand management, information security, and then I've also done Six Sigma work. I have a black belt, and outside of that, I'm also a board member of a couple of boards. One, the Indianapolis Ballet and then the IU School of Science. And so I have a lot of interest in the arts. And I look really in those roles. I look really to give back. So volunteer roles. What can I do to help the community with the talents that I have and how can I participate and add to what the community is looking to achieve? And in the end, I am committed. My charge is I love collaboration. I love what we're doing here, Phil. I love collaboration. I love talking with others. I love learning from others. I love mentoring folks. And every day, I'm always looking to make some sort of a positive impact, whether it's in healthcare or beyond. And Mahaska Health, I was drawn to Mahaska by its culture. Its culture is amazing. The mission behind it is amazing. And I look to use what I have, the talent that I have and the abilities that I have to make a difference there. Awesome.
• 2:31
  Speaker A: You said a lot, which is in the theme of the IT world, We're asked to do a lot. You said a lot. I mean, you have a lot. You have a lot on your shoulders. And before you said all of that, you said seamless. You said the word seamless. We all know when anyone tried to sell something or implement something, they say it's going to be seamless.
• 2:55
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 2:55
  Speaker A: And thoughts on seamless?
• 2:57
  Speaker B: My thoughts on seamless.
• 2:59
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you have to integrate it all seamless. But how often does it deliver seamless and how often are we expected to deliver seamless?
• 3:06
  Speaker B: Yeah, though that is a really great question. I would say expectation wise, very often, 99.9% of the time. Do we get it 99.9% of the time, no. But I would say that how we approach it is whether it's a new project, whether it's a new initiative, or how we are integrating new workflows within our emr. We do our best, we map out what current state is. And I mentioned change management and Six Sigma. So much of what I do as we're doing these, what are things that we did, what are things that we can do better? And then whatever lessons learned that we've taken from say in implementation, let's go ahead and document that and then use that as the way to incrementally improve. We're all human. We, we try to do our best. We do our best to get things right from first time. We being human, we don't. So if there's a way that we can track those things, learn from them and then take that information to have less air next time is, is really the goal.
• 4:13
  Speaker A: Great question from the Sig Sigma piece. And, and being a black belt, I'm just curious how, how long does it take to become a black belt there? Is it anything like Brazilian Jiu Jitsu?
• 4:23
  Speaker B: It's not. Because I think Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is could be a decade, right?
• 4:29
  Speaker A: I think the average is like a decade. Unless you're like, yeah.
• 4:32
  Speaker B: Personally I bet in martial arts I, I did taekwondo, I did kaido, I did aikido, I, I, I think Jiu Jitsu, the black belt for Jiu Jitsu is the longest period of time I think to get a black belt is my understanding. I've never done Jiu Jitsu though. But getting back.
• 4:48
  Speaker A: You want to Chuck Norris act, you do have a little bit of a Chuck Norris look to you. I never said that.
• 4:55
  Speaker B: I've been told that.
• 4:55
  Speaker A: I know it's funny Stevenson, Chuck Norris thing.
• 4:58
  Speaker B: They're like the six Dig. But it took me about two years. I started with a green belt and there's a process and to get your black belt you have to do an actual. I did numerous projects as a green belt, but the black belt is more intensive and documentation around it and a project and a test and all those types of things. But I didn't have to do any. Hiya.
• 5:20
  Speaker A: You know, I guess my question is though, since the goal is to how has that helped you get heard more by executive management and deliver? I. I guess. Has it helped you deliver better to your end users or your customers? How has that helped?
• 5:37
  Speaker B: Yeah, I would say the most important thing that it's done. Understand your audience, like deeply and, and sit back and listen. So one of the dark sides of it is we tend to think we're knowledge experts. I don't want to generalize. Not everyone does that. But you go down this path and you see it is that we used to being the knowledge experts in the room. And so we think that by being a knowledge expert, we should do all the talking. So we have all the knowledge. We should do all the talking. What I look to channel is I look to listen. I want to listen from whether you're a provider, a clinician, whoever you are, I want to listen to what your needs are. And over the years I've listened and I look to anticipate those needs. What are questions that they're going to ask me before they ask me and be prepared to answer those questions. And I have artifacts, presentations that I've used in the past, you know, to get to the point. So to how do I channel impact? How do I deliver to their expectations? I look to anticipate their expectations and then be succinct and crisp in what I'm asking them. Like, you don't want to go too techy. You don't want to have 50 slides. You want like one slide.
• 7:00
  Speaker A: And, and just for the, like, if someone. Let's just say you went to executive manager, you're like, hey, I want to help the rest of my team get stuck. Black dog.
• 7:09
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 7:10
  Speaker A: How would you. Me being. Let's just say I'm a, I'm a cost center executive and I'm speaking.
• 7:16
  Speaker B: No.
• 7:18
  Speaker A: I'm gonna say why. You know, why was that so important? How is that going to help us? How are you.
• 7:23
  Speaker B: Absolutely. Yeah.
• 7:25
  Speaker A: I just want to know specifically, like maybe, maybe he was like, well, you know, send them to a Franklin Covey class or something. I don't know what six months of that. You think like, you think most seable executives know what Sig Sigma is? I'm just curious.
• 7:39
  Speaker B: I would say no, I, I once this described to them because it takes different forms, right. So everyone. You can call it optimization. Some people call it pdsa. There's different forms of optimizing and there's different processes. And Six Sigma is really just one of them. So there are executives I talk to that do know. Other executives I talked to that don't and no worries on that. But to answer your question, I use something. Have you heard of an sbar?
• 8:11
  Speaker A: I'm gonna say no.
• 8:12
  Speaker B: Okay, no worries, don't worry. So all an sbar is, this is an artifact and it's, it's a way to represent like a decision making document. So S is situation, B is background, A is assessment, and then R is recommendation. So all I do is I, I put all the details and I don't go techy. You know, what's the business need? What are we looking to accomplish? Here's the assessment behind it, here's the cost, the tco, what ROI we may gain from it, and then that recommendation summarizes the whole thing. And then I, I present that. And, and if someone says, you know, I've looked at this document and I don't see the value in it, that's okay. I put together a rational argument for something and if the value wasn't seen, then maybe now's not the right time. But I always like to present things in that way, is have it a very summarized, distinct, and enable that person to have all the information that they would understand to be able to make a good decision.
• 9:17
  Speaker A: By the way, we've got Dana in, in the chat. Dana, if you're there putting out fires, you're working at the same time. I just want to recognize that you're there. So if you've got any questions or anything, fire away.
• 9:27
  Speaker B: Okay. Yeah.
• 9:28
  Speaker A: So we, how we, how this whole thing started off is I do want to, I kind of want to get to the, this premise of where we're, I want to kind of get back to where we were at the beginning, which was, it's, it's great to have this, we worked our entire career, we did all this stuff. We had. It's great to have a seat at the executive roundtable. Right? How much better is it to actually be heard? And if there was one thing that the executive world is not hearing from it right now, or there's one thing that you would really want them to hear, like the number one thing. What is it?
• 10:02
  Speaker B: Wow, that's a really, that is a really good question. I would say the biggest struggle for it, and you're welcome to chime in, just my observation, is that unlimited need to meet demand. Like there's unlimited demand with, as we know, limited resources. And so it is left to, to figure that out. So I would say I, I work with the executives here and I work with other executives to impart that knowledge to them is, hey, let's Say there's a need. There's a business need that's coming to me. I really look to encapsulate out what. What we can do, you know, based upon that need. Sometimes what they're looking for is more than that, and that's okay. It's just I let them know of the risk of that, too. So hopefully that answers your question. It's a really good question.
• 10:56
  Speaker A: And, yeah, it's the tip of the iceberg. So, yeah, here's the. Here's the thing. Right.
• 11:03
  Speaker B: You.
• 11:03
  Speaker A: You mentioned all of the things that you're kind of in charge of at the beginning.
• 11:07
  Speaker B: Right.
• 11:07
  Speaker A: And I think people, they think almost like, can. Can anything be done with technology? And it's kind of like, yeah, so. And I hear a lot from. My goal is just kind of like, to reflect back often, but I hear a lot from IT leadership that they don't want to be the department of no or that they're looked upon at the department of no. And I don't actually necessarily think that's a bad thing. I think they don't want to be the department of no. So they end up saying yes a lot more often than we needed. And the. If we really want to solve problems, we have to learn to be good business leaders as well. So if someone comes to you and they say, hey, we want this, and you're figuring out like, well, how can we do it? How can I do it? How often are we asking, as IT leaders, is this actually the best thing for the business?
• 12:02
  Speaker B: No, that's. That's a really, really good question. Yep. Because.
• 12:06
  Speaker A: And I think oftentimes, and I've just run into my own business and running this podcast, sometimes, sometimes we end up fixing. And this is just a theme that keeps coming up as of late, we end up fixing the wrong problem the right way versus if we fix the wrong problem the wrong way. Oh, well, hey, we screwed it up anyways. And hey, we probably, hey, we wasted time anyways, goodbye. Next thing, okay, maybe. Maybe we move on. But when we fix the wrong problem the right way, we're like, hey, congratulations. It, like, you did it. But are we moving the needle on KPIs? Have we done anything? And how. And how far have we set back the business.
• 12:48
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 12:49
  Speaker A: With a technology solution that maybe solved a problem that wasn't really even a big business challenge at the time. And then we've got three other people coming to us from all other departments asking us to do something, when in reality, how connected are we really with what the main challenges of the business at the time. So I guess my question to you would be is what's the main challenge right now for you? Or how do we know what the main challenges of the business? And what if the CEO in the executive suite doesn't even know what the main challenge is?
• 13:18
  Speaker B: Yeah, I would say that the main challenge with, with healthcare in general is we, we're asked to do a lot for patients and for people that come within our hospitals with limited resources there too. So technology can be an enabler and can empower you to be able to do more. AI would be a good example. Be able to do more with less potentially. And I, you bring up a really good point is, and I'll use AI as a use case example is I think healthcare is still, still sorting out what, what AI can do for them in, in that regard. There's so much buzz and so many companies and so many third parties out there that are more willing to sell you a product. And I think healthcare in general is still sorting out do we do, bolt on, do we just focus on the EMR roadmap, things like that? And so I, yeah, that's, that's an excellent question. I'm, I'm trying to think of like a real good succinct answer to it. There's no easy answer to it. I think our role, you know, as an IT leader, as an IT executive, my role is to be that person in the room with those operational people and act as a shepherd, act as an advisor, a guide. And based upon, you know, try to get to your core of what you're saying, what is the business, what is your operational goal, what are you looking to solve? And then once we get there, that key facet, then, okay, here are some technologies that I think we can get you to what you're looking to solve. As we do that, let's look at what current state is. There are ways I can go into more artifacts, There are ways to analyze current state. Let's look at what current state is because we want to track that roi. We don't want to just apply something then not know if it happens. So track it. Have some KPIs, some things that are goals. Did it make an impact?
• 15:25
  Speaker B: It should be that trusted advisor should be. I mean the operational people will know their business. We're here to guide them in what they're looking to accomplish.
• 15:36
  Speaker A: I, I come from a family of doctors, so I, my dad was a urologist, my grandfather pediatrician, my uncle was an ophthalmologist, my mom was like the head office, like person. My sister's an rn, her husband's an anesthesiologist. And I've grew up in the hospital system and then I obviously worked in technology for a long time. So I think hospital is like the king of bolt ons and the king of old systems and the king of silos and even RJ11 cabling. And I mean it's.
• 16:13
  Speaker B: I remember those good old days.
• 16:15
  Speaker A: Not even the good old days, it's just stobby. I've been in hospitals where I've seen like what they call the cow or whatever it is, the wireless. And I've seen one sitting in a corner with the cords unplugged. I've seen one unplugged in a hospital and I've seen one plug, I guess not plugged in, but one out of order and one. And I was. One time I asked like, hey, what's that? Why is that unplugged? And they're like, oh, that's the new system. I was like, what? They're like, that was the nervous system. Like that was a big tail, you know, like someone came in. What was it basically like someone made a technology decision.
• 16:53
  Speaker A: And then that technology decision didn't get bought in on by hospital staff and us with something like that. It was so. But to even, to get. To go further down my. To even just go further down the black hole of the. The challenges in healthcare and everything is. Even within your administration, you must see like the RFK thing or whatever, and I'm not trying to talk politics or anything, but the question around of what should healthcare be delivering to begin with and even billing systems is insane. Right? So it's like what's most important is it making sure the bills get to the insurance companies and that type of stuff gets paid? Is it during COVID It was making sure a patient never misses a appointment. Like that was like. What did they call that? They called that the. There was like a name for that. Like if you missed. If you missed it. It was like the no show. Yeah, it was a no show, but it was like the. Someone said it was like the golden rule of COVID is like you could never miss. Like you can't have patients miss things because it was like so valuable. It was so hard to get to see a doctor anyway.
• 17:58
  Speaker B: Huh.
• 17:59
  Speaker A: Okay. That was one of the. I mean, I think healthcare is where AI use cases actually fit in the most.
• 18:07
  Speaker A: From a pharmaceutical manufacturing standpoint. They can like micropipet things on models faster. Oh, there's all kinds of like telecom stuff obviously that can eliminate missed appointments and things like that. So actually healthcare, I think AI will make a big difference in healthcare faster than possibly other industries. Maybe I'm wrong, but I digress. There's some bullet points on our talk today. And one of beginner's mindset. So you're a black belt, you're Chuck Norris. How do one act with a beginner's mindset? What does that mean?
• 18:41
  Speaker B: Well, it's interesting is that really what it means is always stay teachable. So no matter how long you've been in the business and we all, once again, I always go back to where you, so we're, we're going to be fallible and it happens to me as well. But you always look to channel. What can I learn from others? Whether you think you know it all. I've been in health care technology now for over 27 years. You can say I know a lot, but it doesn't mean that I walk into a room and I get to think I'm the most knowledgeable person. So I sit back and I want to hear other stories. People have so many good stories, so many good thoughts up there. I want to hear those. And I look to channel learning, adapting, listening to others and engaging with those folks. Like if they have a question or a thought, maybe there's some knowledge, some tidbit of knowledge that I can share with them, that can help them along that thought. And I think when I started, that's the trap for it, people in general, I, I, I'll just say that was my trap because I always thought, hey, I gotta be the guy that knows it all. So, so shields up. You know, I'm, I'm the person always talking and I'm the knowledgeable person. And I learned very quickly it was like, no, that's, there's no power in that. The power is listening to others and best part is getting a whole bunch of people in a room together. I've, I've seen this in action. Hopefully you have too. And, and you just, you create an environment where they all can engage and talk with one another, not talk over each other. And you're kind of guiding it, guiding the conversation. You get so much accomplished because 10 people in a room, there's probably someone super smart in different things. So I, I just, that's, that's actually the best part about leadership is there's so many smart people out there. So many things we can learn from each other if we just kind of for a second sit back and, and open ourselves to that learning.
• 20:45
  Speaker A: If you were in a room with all of your peers, black belt Chuck Norris's. What's the one thing you'd really want to talk to them or discuss? Like, what discussion would you want to have that you wouldn't, that you couldn't normally have with a non Chuck Norris?
• 21:02
  Speaker B: I do know a lot.
• 21:03
  Speaker A: I know everything.
• 21:04
  Speaker B: That's a great question.
• 21:05
  Speaker A: I talk about.
• 21:07
  Speaker B: Wow, that's a really good question because there's so much I would want to know about them. I like to connect personally with people. Everyone's got their own personal story, whatever they're willing to share. Let's connect personally and learn a little bit more about each other. And what are some challenges that they have going on in their workplace. And, and I'll share my challenges and just kind of go down that path. Like, even. Even though I have a black belt, there's other approaches I'm sure that people have taken that have worked for them. And so I'll talk through where are some challenges, where are some things? How can I help you? And here are some things that I have. There was a really great conversation, and I won't try to digress too much. Ad hoc conversation. I was at a conference and we talked about the next generation and I know that's out there in the news a lot. How do we engage people from different generations? And so all of us connected really well on that because some individuals had grandkids and we talked about the generations and just not just engaging them at work, but also at home. And how some of the things that happen at home, like this is where that beginner's mind really helped me because I just listen and there's aspects. I know there's things much in the news, but there's aspects about what happens at home, how that creates what the future could be, and how some people are wired. And on a long story short, it was just a fascinating conversation. So to answer your question, I. I think that's how I channel it, is connect with people personally, professionally, and then see if there's needs between the both of us that we can help each other with. Well, it's.
• 22:45
  Speaker A: It's all about getting heard.
• 22:47
  Speaker B: So, yeah.
• 22:48
  Speaker A: It leads to the next question, if this helps.
• 22:51
  Speaker B: Do you.
• 22:52
  Speaker A: Do you love going into work every day honestly, or their day?
• 22:55
  Speaker B: Or you're like, okay, honestly, do we all have bad days? Oh, yeah. I mean, that's just echoes with the territory. I, I can't say I am a very candid, transparent, and I like to say 100% honest person. There are days you're not looking forward to the day. It's just how it is. I think everyone. I'm sure you do too. Everyone. There's not one person out there that could say, yeah, I left my job every day. But.
• 23:19
  Speaker A: But we launched a new ERP implementation one week after the ERP or new.
• 23:26
  Speaker B: Yeah, but I, I can honestly say it's not a tagline or anything. This is, this is an awesome place. I love where I work. I love what I do. I love the teams that I work with and the. I love the. Some people. You haven't asked me that question, but some people, because sometimes providers, there's like, anyways, I don't even have to go there. I love working with providers, I love working with the clinicians. I love learning from all of that. Really, that's it. And you know what's cool? Sorry, this will be the last thing I say about. That's what is so tough. That's what's so powerful about the beginner's mind. So if you go in and you kind of go. Go in with your. And you kind of go in with assumptions on people, you might have a negative outlook on some of them. But if you just go in blank plate, you're like, you take it as it is and you learn from it. And then there's no, none of that negativity, I guess, potential negativity.
• 24:27
  Speaker A: Is there anything you do before going into that, like it's all about them.
• 24:32
  Speaker B: Oh, that's a good question.
• 24:35
  Speaker A: I used to do that. I used to go before I had a stressful presentation or meeting with the team or whatever it was. And I would tell my other guys this too. Just, I'd say, just I would say to myself before I went into any meeting, if I'm outside, like, it's all about, it's all about them first.
• 24:51
  Speaker B: Wow, that's great. That's powerful, Phil. I think it is powerful because I don't necessarily channel that. I think I just, I don't have like a mantra in my mind. I think I go into a room like, what could I learn? What can I learn from others is how I approach it.
• 25:08
  Speaker A: This was when I had to teach people to do very Go talk with complete strangers. Yeah, it was a Cisco startup and I was trying to train like sales reps to go sell Cisco Iads to small business owners and teach them about VPNs and off site backup back when DSL first came out.
• 25:31
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 25:32
  Speaker A: So most of the time they were just getting rejected by gatekeepers. And kicked in the teeth and like, you know, get out of here.
• 25:38
  Speaker B: Right.
• 25:39
  Speaker A: And so I tell them, like, if you're on a mission to help and it's all about them, it makes it a lot less stressful on you. Yeah.
• 25:48
  Speaker B: Wow.
• 25:49
  Speaker A: I mean, just saying, like, if you're, if you're, if you're not here for that reason, then yeah, leave.
• 25:55
  Speaker B: No, that's, that's very powerful. See, I'm, I'm learning just from this. That is very powerful. That's a, that's a good outlook.
• 26:02
  Speaker A: How do you build a team that every leader wants it? If you go into work and you're happy every day, you have a great environment, you have all this. How do you build a team? And I think you used the words last time. Positive, adaptable, and high impact. So first of all, I hate negativity. Who doesn't? Attitudes are the number one thing in my book. I think.
• 26:21
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 26:22
  Speaker A: Adaptable is like, also important because things change all the time in it. High impact.
• 26:29
  Speaker B: So how do I build a team? Let's say I'm, I'm starting from scratch. How do I build a team or look for people? I think in, in going with the gut sometimes can have a negative, you know, because people like, we're KPI based or whatever, but I see the spire in people. So over the years I've hired people and if you went by the requirements, the resumes, and you looked at the resumes, you'd be like, there's no way. This person doesn't have it. But when you talk to them. That's why sometimes I may be old school in this regard. I like personal interactions or video interactions where I can see people because I get a gauge for how they are. The people who have that fire in them where they want to just do something, maybe they don't even know what they want, but they have this fire in them and a passion in them. And it's like, as a leader, all you have to do is just kind of guide them. Where do they want to go with? And then empower them and feed it, feed that fire. It's just amazing to see what, what people are able to accomplish. But the adaptability, for sure, positivity is huge. It's one of the things that I think we talk about. People should be positive. There's negativity out there in the world. It's just a person's mindset can have a huge impact on a team. And you, you've probably seen this. I know I have. If you have one, just one Person, let's say the team's kind of neutral. You have one person who comes in, and they just have this type of positivity. They. They just. They see things in a positive light. It. It's like the entire team lifts up. It's just. It's just amazing. So those. Those people are.
• 28:16
  Speaker A: Must have in a team, and vice versa. One person can poison the will.
• 28:23
  Speaker B: Correct. And you have to. You can't turn a blind eye to it. You're. You're completely right about that.
• 28:31
  Speaker A: How do you then empower the group of people?
• 28:35
  Speaker B: Yeah, I enabled them to make decisions. So you have to foster a culture, like a culture of safety, where people feel like they have the capacity, it's okay, we all are human. We're going to fail at one time or another. They need to know that they can make decisions on their own without having to constantly look up. And so what I do is foster that culture where you have the ability to make decisions on your own. Please keep me in the loop. The raci. I need to be aware of things. But you're able to make the decision and then turn to me for guidance on that decision if you want. Want. And I hate to use the word guardrails, because that sounds negative, but, you know, there are some decisions that require guardrails, where, at the very least, just bring me in on the conversation so that we can talk through it. But that's really. It. It's that simple, is empower others to be able to do their job. And then my role is I'm the conduit. So you have folks who need to get their jobs done, and there's things they need from leadership. They come to me, and I'm the conduit to be able to work with executives, other senior leaders to further what they're looking to accomplish. How can we do things, get things done together?
• 29:52
  Speaker A: I want you to give me an example of that. But first, Dana said managing cultural fit and behavior is essential.
• 30:04
  Speaker A: How do you know if someone's not in the right culture?
• 30:06
  Speaker B: Ooh, that is. Wow, that is a tough one. Cause it's not a KPI sort of thing. Dana brings up a really good point. If you don't have someone who's a culture fit, I mean, it may sound harsh, but you. You have to have that conversation with that person, say, look, you know, maybe this isn't the place for you. Right. I mean, I know that sounds harsh, but sometimes it really isn't. And they. They need to know that maybe this isn't the place for you. I, I will do everything I can to make sure you're successful. But maybe this, this may not work out where you're at now, but you have to. I don't know if Dana or you have ever heard of this. What you permit, you promote. So if you let those non culture fits or those toxins, if you will continue to be there and you don't do anything, it gets worse.
• 31:00
  Speaker B: Mm.
• 31:04
  Speaker A: What about core values for IT team? Do you have them?
• 31:09
  Speaker B: Yeah, I would say core value definitely. And it's not like a mantra, but customer service, you know, I know that's almost probably overused a little bit, but customer service, you know, really try to understand what the customer's looking for and then use your thoughts and abilities to deliver to those needs. And it's really listening and what you say you're going to do, you do and then follow up. So close the loop, do what you say you're going to do and listen. There we go.
• 31:43
  Speaker A: How do you hire great people?
• 31:47
  Speaker B: It goes back to what I said before, on fire. So looking for people have a fire, a passion. Looking for people that you could almost feel they show themselves to be adaptable and they show themselves to be positive. And the other thing too is that they're able to focus on the solution. So I know I threw out a lot there. One of the core values I look for is being solution like and the thought behind that is everyone has hard days. Everyone's going to deal with someone who's difficult and may not make your day pleasant. If you're able to just kind of let that roll off but focused on, okay, I've heard out of what I heard from the person and some of the things were negative emotions. I did hear one thing there that I think is a solution, something I can do that can fix it and those that are things that I, I do, I, I look for in people, especially the solution minded.
• 32:50
  Speaker A: I gotta know how you find those people.
• 32:52
  Speaker B: They're out there. That's the coolest thing. They are totally out there. I have recently hired a few people over the past six months that they have it and, and I, I can say it's, it's amazing is in, in six month period of time, not to say things were bad or anything, but it's like you could tell things to elevate just by their presence. Because a lot of what we do, especially in it is perception based. So there's, there's things with KPIs, there's projects, there's things that we're trying to get Done. But a lot of what we do is. You mentioned the. No. So it's like perception is very difficult. Can't really put quantitative values on perception. So you, you have to help people who. They get that they understand what it means, they're self. Aware. There we go. So they understand how they represent themselves could impact someone else. And if they're not doing something in such a way, they need to have that beginner's mindset and that ability to look within, to adapt and change themselves.
• 34:00
  Speaker A: Perception is reality. Back when I worked at Starbucks.
• 34:02
  Speaker B: Yep. Couple of the other thing too about that too is I keep mentioning about how don't be the person who thinks they know it all because we don't. No one knows it all. And the thing about perception. So I'm going to tie the two together is you don't have to. So if someone comes to you, like if a provider comes to me and they ask me something very specific about a workflow that could be through the emr, it's likely I may not know all specifics of the solution about that. So I may not have the answer. That's okay. The perception is, hey, okay, I'm hearing what you're saying and I, I got the lead. That's all they need to know. Who's going to take care of this? I got the lead. I will run it to its endpoint and I'll follow up to make sure it's fine. And that's a perception.
• 34:51
  Speaker A: I was going to go on a provider tangent, but I want to stay on this.
• 34:55
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 34:57
  Speaker A: Paint a picture for me of something that this team member did. Give them a shout out if you want. That lifted everybody else up, that just, they were aware and it just lifted the team and brought positivity to it. What is it? Can you give me an example so that other people can follow? Yeah.
• 35:18
  Speaker B: Yeah. So we've had a long standing issue that was in our surgery area and this person came in and saw the issue and basically took ownership of it, ran it to its endpoint where it was, it was label printing and it was in. We, you know, healthcare sometimes could be complex. So we have label printers and they're all printing differently and there's no consistency. There's. And so there was a need for standardization because people were actually hand labeling things when they shouldn't be or. Well, they were for a good reason. But we should have had technology that did it. And all this person did really. I mean, it's simple. They came in, they say, I see the problem. I'm Going to take care of this. And they. They did everything they could. They found out they didn't know all the right people to talk to. They didn't know who to interact with. They learned it, they figured it out, and then at the end of the day, they got it all done. All these. All the label printers are now consistently printing. It was huge.
• 36:22
  Speaker A: How they asked questions. How did they approach people?
• 36:26
  Speaker B: Yeah, they asked questions. They approached people in a very positive way. Right? Like, hey, I'm trying to get this done. I'm trying to get this set up. I'm trying to fix something. You know what? Can you help me to understand what's happening? And that person had to talk with people like technical people, clinical people, providers, other technical people that don't even work at our organization to try and put all this together so that it would actually work. And the last thing I should say too, shoot. I should have mentioned this part of the character, persistence, but that is huge. Like never give up.
• 37:10
  Speaker B: It may take five years, it may take 10 years, but never give up.
• 37:15
  Speaker A: Persistence, curiosity. There's something about being able to talk with people. When you say providers, do you mean doctors? What do you mean?
• 37:23
  Speaker B: Yeah, well, doctors.
• 37:25
  Speaker A: Doctors become providers.
• 37:27
  Speaker B: Now providers would be physicians, NPs, PAs.
• 37:33
  Speaker A: Right.
• 37:34
  Speaker B: So. So that encapsulates all. Yeah.
• 37:36
  Speaker A: A doctor's okay with being called a provider. That's new. I come from the old school world and my dad's 91. Oh, okay with the doctor is in the highest of the highest esteemed pecking order at the hospital.
• 37:50
  Speaker B: Sure.
• 37:51
  Speaker A: They still. I mean, it's a very. That job for that person to do that and deal with all those different personalities in a hospital.
• 38:00
  Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
• 38:01
  Speaker A: You think hospital is the most politically correct organization, but it's not. Everyone is seeing everyone naked. You deal with every technique in the hospital. Yeah, you do craziness. You deal with insane people, crazy. I mean, you just deal with so much. It's the least probably politically correct organization sometimes, except for the IT department. They've got to listen be. I've just. How did this lift up other people? Did other people. Did it lift up the team or.
• 38:29
  Speaker B: Like how I would say the approach. Like it gets back to how can you describe someone who is positive and. And that really. This person jokes, just jovial, like just her presence uplift people in her presence. But it's hard to describe. It's like you almost have like a comedian who is really good at being. Being an informaticist at the same time. So who has the clinical RN background, who has the clinical background too.
• 39:05
  Speaker B: It's almost the best of world.
• 39:08
  Speaker A: Yeah, it's. It's almost like we have to do. Teach IT personality stuff or something. We need to have some. Like, maybe she should do a class on this.
• 39:17
  Speaker B: Should do the class.
• 39:18
  Speaker A: No, that's really easy. Yeah.
• 39:20
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 39:21
  Speaker A: And you've talked with all these people for years. Just know it's like the coffee guy. I'm giving you the last word. I'm giving you the last word. If there was anything out there that, that you wanted people to hear that's really, really important for this.
• 39:33
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 39:33
  Speaker A: For, for the world to hear.
• 39:35
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 39:35
  Speaker A: Technology leaders have done. Not that they're not hearing right. It's. We did a roundtable the other day and it opened up pretty. It opened up pretty rough with there's so many IT people out of jobs and no one gets it and AI this and expecting us to implement AI yesterday. And you get that side of the story, right?
• 39:56
  Speaker B: Sure. No one understands.
• 39:57
  Speaker A: And they think the ERP system can be implemented in two weeks. You get this type of stuff. So you do them some charity work here to the IT world. What do we need executive management to hear? And I think you said it best in the beginning. Let's just go back to the beginning. Or it's, you can't get everything at once or something like that is how I remember.
• 40:18
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 40:19
  Speaker A: And what's the solution to that problem?
• 40:22
  Speaker B: Yeah, I would say, I mean the solution to that problem is. And, and some of this is relational, some of this is process. So seek. So with the executive, the operational side, seek to understand, partner with them, learn their needs and have open, honest dialogues. You got to create that relationship. That's important. Have open, honest dialogue with them. On. I hear what you're saying. These are some things you want to do. Here's what we can get accomplished and show clear roadmaps. You'll have playbooks, checklists. Here are some clear things that we can get accomplished today. Here are some clear things we can get accomplished in, say six months. Here's some things that we can do in, in a year. My experience has been is that if you people want to be in the know and if you can show them. I hear one, I've listened. I hear what you're saying. I'm with you. I'm not the no guy. I hear what you're saying. Here's giving the resources, pie money that we have. These. Here's our roadmaps. Here's what we can get accomplished for you. Is there something you operational leader would like to adjust based upon what we have here. Is there a priority that we should probably change? I think sounds simple. It's about creating relationships and then engaging with those leaders and trying not to. I'm not saying people are building walls, but when you kind of hear the, this thing, it sounds like a wall being built. And the more walls that are built, you wouldn't be able to have that dialogue.
• 41:59
  Speaker A: You did mention the SWOT analysis when you were talking before in the 60, 90 day plans. And I think sharing that with executive management and asking them, does this align with what keeps, what keeps you up all night every night? Yeah. How could I help you not have nightmares?
• 42:15
  Speaker B: Absolutely.
• 42:16
  Speaker A: And in, in a hospital system it can be, and I applaud you because it can be much more difficult because you have a lot of moving parts and a lot of different competing leadership and voices. People that could say, well, mine's more important than him. I'm assuming you run. Yeah.
• 42:30
  Speaker B: And that's okay. Like, I think what I do then is, okay, these, I hear the different voices and how do we coalesce or converge those? Right. So do I set up a meeting? Do I set up some time to talk with each person individually or like you just mentioned? And I don't think I, I don't delve too much into that whole 39, 30, 60, 90 day SWAT, but I, I did that when I came here. So I had a 30 day, 60 day, 90 day plan, did a SWOT analysis and I presented that and my strategic plan based upon the SWOT to our executive team and the board of directors for their feedback and, and what are the adjustments? So I like what you said with the different voices because that will get a little bit trickier, especially in a larger organization. You're just gonna have to figure out that's where that relationship building comes in. You're gonna have to figure out, okay, I got all these voices. How do I coalesce and converge those so that we get something meaningful?
• 43:28
  Speaker A: Yeah, especially if you're competing egos. I'm just.
• 43:32
  Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah. I don't know.
• 43:34
  Speaker A: We put them in like a ring and say, you know, taekwondo, karate, like let's go.
• 43:39
  Speaker B: Yeah, you'd have to have, and this gets into, you know, I go into the, the, the details. You could have a demand management process. So, and it can be as big or as small as you think it needs to be based upon your organizational size. But demand management helps. So you have a, a big intake view of how things are going in and somehow we have to put a process around how those things are going to be prioritized across the organization.
• 44:07
  Speaker A: Bob, been a pleasure having you on the show today. You've been heard.
• 44:12
  Speaker B: Thank you. Thanks, Phil. Appreciate it.