Latest / The Kids Menu / 05: Celebrating Preferences
Transcript
- Chef Mark: Okay, today I brought my favorite banana ripeness. And for those listening right now, it is quite yellow. I want pure yellow on my banana and the tip, the the part where the stem is in the very bottom have little green. This is my ideal banana. It is dreamy. I love it so much because it's a little bit smooth in texture and not super sweet yet. Like there's a little bit of acidity left in the banana at this point as it's ripening and moving onward. So th this is my ideal banana. I really want mostly yellow. I don't even want a speck of brown. That's my dream banana. Christiana, what is your dream banana? Christiana Cortina: It just, I have to say, that is exactly the ma banana that I feel like goes with your personality. I Chef Mark: Okay, say more. Christiana Cortina: don't know if I know how to explain it, except that as soon as you held Chef Mark: Ha ha Christiana Cortina: it up, I was like, yeah, that makes sense. you're gonna be appalled at my banana. So my banana Chef Mark: I can't wait, okay. lord. Christiana Cortina: I get a lot of hate for my banana preference. I do not like to see any green at all. Like your green tip of your banana, I was like, ugh. Chef Mark: Okay, describe yours. Christiana Cortina: So mine is all yellow, and there's like a lot of freckles. I would say I could even do one more day of freckles. Like this Chef Mark: Wow. Christiana Cortina: is maybe a day early, but I'd be okay with this. I would say like 40 to 50 percent of my banana is covered with freckles. Would you say that? Is accurate? Yeah. Chef Mark: Yeah, th there's a lot of fre yeah, that's a lot of freckles. Christiana Cortina: I like that it's sweet. I love that it's really sweet. And I don't like to taste that hint of the green. Is that the acidity? I never knew how to explain that. Chef Mark: Yeah. Yeah. And I I did learn this at some point recently. I kinda saw this like s progression of how the banana is ripening and it changes composition quite a bit. So this actually has less sugar in it right now. Mine being green on the tip and pure yellow. Yours has developed a lot more sugars and it makes a ton of sense when you kinda get into it and taste it, right? The flavor drastically changes. Christiana Cortina: Yeah, makes sense for my taste preferences too. I prefer sweet, so Chef Mark: Yeah. And I think for me it's really the texture. I want it to be in my mind it tastes creamy, but maybe other people would describe the more ripe banana that way. But it's like it there's this clear gel thing happening inside. And I love it. And it's still still firm. I think that's for that's what it like it has some chew and resistance to it. I think that's what I really need in my banana and most eating experiences is just a little bit of resistance in the chew. Christiana Cortina: Mm, that makes sense. For me, there's this weird feeling on my tongue before Chef Mark: Mm. Christiana Cortina: the banana is ripe. And I don't know how to explain it, but like Chef Mark: Yes. Christiana Cortina: the greenness makes my tongue feel fuzzy. Chef Mark: Okay, that's that's a thing, and I actually know what that is. That's tan tannins, and it's the same thing that is in wine, and I don't know if you've ever had wine that makes your tongue feel the same way. It's it almost gets very dried out and I think in sometimes in the wine space I am no expert, but I've heard the term grip, and it's almost like it's like squeezing and like gripping on your taste buds and is like grabbing it. And I think that's what that underripe green thing is. Christiana Cortina: That's so funny because when mine does it, I kinda like it. But the banana is not for me. Not for me for the banana. Chef Mark: Okay, interesting. Yeah. I absolutely can go too far green and have that where there's like a crunch in the center and it's really yeah, that maybe that tannin thing is happening. That's not for me. Christiana Cortina: I was talking to my friend the other day. We were getting a late-night snack after a concert we went to, and there were all these bananas, and we were talking about banana ripeness. And she told me that her grandma used to eat a sandwich. And I'm so I just can't wait to see her reaction. It Chef Mark: Yeah. Christiana Cortina: was white bread, not toasted, mayonnaise, and a gr a Chef Mark: Okay. Can Okay Christiana Cortina: green sliced banana. Banana green. Mm-hmm. Just green. Chef Mark: Wow. I have to say, if with all foods in the world, I need to try it once. I'm already dreading it. Christiana Cortina: my god, you have to try it and tell me what you think. I can't do it. I actually Chef Mark: But I I understand how the very unripe banana would pair better with mayo, in my opinion, than the very sweet banana, like flavor-wise. Christiana Cortina: Yeah, I guess that makes sense. I asked where she was from and she Chef Mark: Mm-hmm. Christiana Cortina: said the deep south. So I don't know. I've I've never heard of this sandwich Chef Mark: Okay. Christiana Cortina: before, but I was like, wow, I don't think someone could pay me enough money to eat that. Especially because of my hatred of green bananas. Chef Mark: That sounds really intense. It'd be so crunchy and not sweet at all. That's good that's that's gonna be tough. But I should I promise that I'll do it? Okay, for science and podcast, I'll do it. Alright, Christiana Cortina: Yeah, I think you should promise that you're gonna do it. Yes. Do it by next time. Now we're expecting it. Chef Mark: I'll do it. I'll do it. And I'll I'll f I'll film myself and put it on Instagram. Christiana Cortina: Perfect. Chef Mark: I feel like one bite is gonna be so harsh to my taste buds. I guess that Christiana Cortina: I'm excited to hear about it. Chef Mark: That does lead us into what today's podcast is about. It's about preferences. And I wanted to talk even about that idea of going into tasting something you think will taste bad and being okay with it. Christiana Cortina: yeah, tell me more. What do you mean? Chef Mark: I think only in my adulthood have I been able to enjoy that and I try to share it with kids that I'm working with 'cause I see with children th I think they're scared of that moment that something's gonna go into my mouth and taste bad to me and I don't know if they've always always I don't know if they've always explored what that will be like. what's the fear? why would that be so bad to have something that tastes bad and then you can spit it out and get rid of it? And so I do explore that quite a bit in my cooking classes. But as an adult, I've actually taken quite a bit of pleasure in tasting something that I think will taste bad and even confirming it and laughing as it's in my mouth and just I don't know, marveling at being a human being and having weird experiences. this is one of the strangest things I couldn't have dreamt of or made this up, it's awful and so strange and it's just funny sometimes. I really enjoy laughing at it while I'm eating something bad. Christiana Cortina: that just reminded me of this game that I used to play with my friend when we were in middle school and it was called bean jelly bean bamboozled. Have you heard of this? Where you would like Chef Mark: yes yes, tell us. Christiana Cortina: try so there was all these jelly beans and they were all different colors, but like the yellow one could be like butter or like with something gross that's yellow. Chef Mark: I think it's like earwax. Christiana Cortina: Ew, yeah. So and you would have to eat the you would spin the wheel and eat the jelly bean and have to figure out obviously you would know pretty quickly if it was the gross flavor or the flavor that was good. And I just thought of that when you said that because as a kid that was so much fun to be like, Ew, that's so gross, making it into a game. But then thinking about trying food that was gross, I don't think felt the same way. Chef Mark: That's so interesting. The the game of it I think is the fun part and maybe that's what It's helpful for me to hone in on even right now as I'm thinking about why it's fun for me as an adult, 'cause I'm gamifying it and just enjoying the silliness of eating something it tastes bad. And that's something that I think we could really encourage in kids of like making it into a game and not putting so much steaks on it, like you have to eat this meal that I cooked for you, but just like being take this one bite and you might really not like it and and even come up with some sort of routine or ritual around how you'd spit it out and what kind of thing you get to clear out your taste buds with if it's a little sip of a soda or something, whatever it could be or treat. Christiana Cortina: Yeah, I think that's so fun making things into a game and also something else you said is just like giving the permission to spit out the food and letting a child decide if they like it or not and then not being disappointed when they don't. I think that's something I see a lot is there's like a disappointment or a frustration. Which, if you're preparing meals, is understandable. But also it's like you said, it makes it high stakes. And it makes me think of that one of my workshops that I do, which is called Balanced Bites. And basically what I do is I get fifteen little samples of food. and kids get to go up and decide if they wanna take a sample of each food and they get to try it and decide if they like it. And they're allowed to spit it out. And my little cousin participates in all of the monthly workshops. And she just turned nine. And one thing she would always do, because it was always kind of an influx of new kids each time. And she was the one who would had been there a while. But she would always ask the same question. She would raise her hand and say, Well, what if we don't want to try any of the foods? And I would always say, Well, then you don't have to. And all the kids would be like, like they were Chef Mark: Wow, Christiana Cortina: They were shocked, Chef Mark: they were shocked. Christiana Cortina: shocked, like shocked that they were allowed to spit it out and shocked that they didn't have to try it. And I feel like with my cousin, she was one for one thing she was doing was like reassuring herself that if she didn't want to try it, she didn't have to. But also I think there was something strategic that she was like, I want to let all of the other kids know that you don't have to try it either. And it made them feel safe. Chef Mark: That's so great. I really like that, first of all, that you're doing that workshop and allowing that just an environment where it feels really safe and no pressure. And I love that there's 15 choices. That feels like quite a few choices and things that you could find in there that you might think you would like. And then there's a freedom to choose none of it or to spit any of it out. And I think that's really cool. Like that's just what we need to give to kids more. Christiana Cortina: Yeah, I agree. It's definitely has that game aspect too. Chef Mark: Mm-hmm. Christiana Cortina: and it can be, it's so funny, my mom would help set up the the samples and I would tell her, like, just put a little piece. And she like was not understanding, like she wanted to give them more in the little sample so they could try eat more if they wanted, but I'm like, no, like we don't want it to be intimidating. It's just Chef Mark: Mm. Christiana Cortina: a teeny tiny taste. Chef Mark: Yeah, can you actually even show me with your hands or estimate volume wise how much was in each what's your ideal sample size for that? Christiana Cortina: Well, if it was a raspberry, it would just be one raspberry. Chef Mark: Okay. Christiana Cortina: Sometimes it would be hummus. And it would be just a little one of those mini tasting spoons of hummus. Chef Mark: yeah, okay. Christiana Cortina: So like really tiny, not even, you know, a bite sometimes, just to kind of Chef Mark: Mm. Christiana Cortina: introduce it. it also kind of makes it like More desired, I think, in a way, when it's like, I can't just have all of this now. but I think I might want to try it again. Chef Mark: Okay, speaking of hummus, you made my hummus recipe last week, and I would love to hear about how that went for you. Christiana Cortina: So actually I made it this morning. Chef Mark: Okay. Christiana Cortina: so thank goodness I had some flexibility because remember last time I said, I have tahini? Well I looked Chef Mark: Yes. Christiana Cortina: at that today, it expired in 2025. So Chef Mark: Good for you for not using it. Did you? Okay. Christiana Cortina: thought about it. Also I I didn't use it, I promise. But I considered it. I was like, what's the worst that could happen? And I didn't even I didn't look it up. I decided quickly, don't do it. I also didn't refrigerate it. So I don't know if you're s Chef Mark: I don't refrigerate mine. Christiana Cortina: okay. I wasn't sure. My new one said refrigerate after opening. So I was like, good thing I didn't need the other one. Chef Mark: Yeah, r really quick note is it would go it would keep longer, saving it in the refrigerator. And the thing that Christiana Cortina: Mm. Chef Mark: could go wrong is just with nut butters and anything with nuts, is the oils can go rancid and it just tastes off and we'll just have a weird thing going on. so yeah, refrigerating and not going past your expiration date's probably good idea. Christiana Cortina: Yeah, don't recommend. I didn't do it. I threw it away and Chef Mark: Good job. Christiana Cortina: I made a trip to Trader Joe's and I got more tahini and you know a bunch of other stuff because why not? It's fall at Trader Joe's. Chef Mark: Mm-hmm. Christiana Cortina: and so I did do where you boil or simmer the chickpeas with the baking soda so that the Chef Mark: Yeah. Christiana Cortina: skins come off. and it looked like it wasn't working. And in my brain, I was like, this isn't working. Like Chef Mark: Ha ha ha. Christiana Cortina: I'm doing it wrong. it's not working. And then once I drained them, I saw all this. I put them in like I have a rice rinser where the Chef Mark: Mm-hmm. Christiana Cortina: bottom is like a bowl and then you you pour out the side that's like drains Chef Mark: yeah yeah. Christiana Cortina: it. So I put them in there and all the skins floated to the top and I scooped Chef Mark: cool. Christiana Cortina: them out. Yeah. So that was a great trick because I do feel like it made the hummus a lot smoother. Chef Mark: Hmm. Christiana Cortina: And yeah, it was delicious. So I ate it with a red bell pepper because Chef Mark: Ooh. Christiana Cortina: that's what I was in the mood for today. And I the I needed to add a little more lemon juice. So I made it went a little heavy on the salt, because you know, me and measuring. yeah, Chef Mark: Yum, but also salt, yum. Christiana Cortina: yeah. and I loved the tahini. And I feel like my favorite thing about it was like kind of like you were saying, like the fresh lemon juice. It made it have like Chef Mark: Mm. Christiana Cortina: such like a bold complex flavor. Usually if I get hummus at the store, I never get plain hummus because it tastes like really dull. Chef Mark: Yes, agree. I agree with that. Christiana Cortina: So it was really yummy and it was really easy. And now I actually have some leftover falafel that I think I'm gonna make like a little tray with the hummus. Yeah. Yeah. Chef Mark: my gosh, that sounds very good. Okay, I have a couple of things. One is the skins. I'm glad they came off. In the recipe, the intention is actually for them to just soften and dissolve. So they're still there, but they will just blend easily. So they don't even need to be fully removed, or like you do you don't need to see them go away per se. Christiana Cortina: They're that's so funny because I was scooping them out with my hand. Chef Mark: Well, good for you. That definitely definitely will improve the texture, for sure. I should maybe be a little more clear in my instructions, so that could be Christiana Cortina: Mm. Chef Mark: a note for myself. and then my curiosity is what kind of blender or thing did you use to blend it? Christiana Cortina: my mini food processor which i love because i used to always use my blender but my blender lid is so hard to get off and Chef Mark: Mm. Christiana Cortina: it fills me with rage like Chef Mark: What? Christiana Cortina: i i know like it's the hardest thing i and i have to like put my fingernails to get it off and it like hurts so i hate using i know Chef Mark: That's not okay. What what is this blunder? Okay. Christiana Cortina: I think it's from Walmart, so it's not very nice. But my food processor is a cuisin art one. It's like or no, KitchenAid, one of those. Chef Mark: Yeah. Is it okay. Christiana Cortina: and it's like light blue, but I love it. And it's I wish it was a little bigger, but I use it so much. I never used to use it before. My mom actually gave it to me to borrow and I kept it. So shout out to her if she's listening. But I use Chef Mark: Nice, good job. Thanks, Mom. Christiana Cortina: it all the time. Especially like I feel it it makes things really creamy and smooth. Chef Mark: Yeah. Christiana Cortina: And I don't think my blender does, but honestly, I think just because my blender is not very good, my family Chef Mark: Mm-hmm. Christiana Cortina: has the ninja blender, which I'm like obsessed with. Chef Mark: Mmm. The mini food processor is really awesome. And especially for small batches of stuff like this, where it's a single can of chickpeas, a small recipe, can fit in there. It does really well. Like in general, if you're blending something that you want to be really smooth, having the size of container be small so that it can kind of get everything down into the blade area, that really helps a ton. Like I have a Vitamix that it's a pretty wide blender jar. It's it's a dream. It's the best thing ever. Christiana Cortina: I'm so jealous. Chef Mark: But it it has a huge jar and so it's so wide at the base that it will kinda just fling stuff outward and just stick on the walls of the blender and not really keep pulling it down and rotating it. And I encouraged Emily to buy a Vitamix, which she did. She found a used one somewhere. And it has the narrower base and just that difference alone I made hummus in her blender, hands down best hummus I've ever eaten in my life. It was so Christiana Cortina: Really? Chef Mark: smooth because the small diameter at the base helped contain it to keep pulling everything down and rotating all of the hummus as it was blending and it was so smooth. It was outrageous. Christiana Cortina: That's awesome. Yeah, this one was really smooth. I really loved it. I'm excited to eat it and I'm gonna take some and share it with my co-workers, I think, just because why not? Chef Mark: That's nice. Well, I'm I'm glad to hear that it turned out well and that it went smoothly and especially the fresh lemon juice, I think, really is one of the main things that sets that apart. And you can tell it's homemade and special and just tastes more nuanced and yummy. Christiana Cortina: Yeah, and you know what? I was at the checkout and I was like, do I have a lemon at home? And I was f probably 40% sure I had a lemon at home and I could have gone and got one just to be safe, but I decided let me just risk it. And Chef Mark: Nice. Christiana Cortina: I actually had two lemons at home, so Chef Mark: Did you cut it to the second one? Okay. Christiana Cortina: I did, because I squeezed I mean probably could have saved it and finished j squeezing out lemon juice from the first one, but I already threw it away. Chef Mark: Got it. Christiana Cortina: So it's okay though. Chef Mark: I was just thinking that I find myself going into two lemons when I make that recipe. I just love Christiana Cortina: really? Chef Mark: I just want so much good lemon juice in there. Christiana Cortina: Yeah, I like the lemon juice flavor to to come out a lot, so Chef Mark: Yum. Well people go make it. It's super good. Do it with your kids. It's really easy and fun. Christiana Cortina: Definitely. And you can dip so many things in it. Chef Mark: Yeah. Endless. Really. That's a good kind of on ramp for just trying out maybe a bite of a different veggie or really anything you could dream of, different crackers, breads. Yeah. Christiana Cortina: Mm-hmm. Chef Mark: great. Okay. Christiana Cortina: So Chef Mark, do you remember something that you hated as a kid, food wise, and that you like now? Chef Mark: Ooh, this is a really good one. Okay, let me let me take a moment and think about it. Maybe I'll put it back on you for a minute and I'll I'll come up with my answer. Do you do you have anything in mind? Christiana Cortina: I mean a lot of stuff. I want to say like everything except buttered noodles, but Chef Mark: Mm-hmm. Christiana Cortina: also the verdict shows that some people do say butter noodles, not buttered noodles. I've been asking some kids, Chef Mark: Okay. Christiana Cortina: and I have three children tell me they say butter noodles. So I don't know if it's generational, but I just wanted to point it out. Chef Mark: Ooh, okay, this is fun. I'll I'll keep my ear out and keep asking around. Cause I I cer I certainly would have thought always with a D buttered Christiana Cortina: Yes, keep asking around. Buttered. Yes. but I I really hated tomatoes and like anything chunky. So I think Chef Mark: Mm. Christiana Cortina: of like pasta sauce when I was younger and I it had to be like completely smooth. If there was like a tomato chunk in it, it was like immediate ick, get that away Chef Mark: Mm. Christiana Cortina: from me. And like salsa, I mean I think this might be a universal experience of kids, but you like dip it in the salsa to just like coat the chip and then take it out. Like you don't actually scoop it. Chef Mark: You just gotta get the juice. Christiana Cortina: Yeah, just get the juices like slightly on the chip. so anything Chef Mark: Uh-huh. huh. Christiana Cortina: like chunky like that, I really didn't like, which I love now. Chef Mark: Mm-hmm. Christiana Cortina: I'm not I eat mostly everything now. And I'm trying to think of something else that I really, really disliked. Did anything come to your mind while I keep brainstorming? Chef Mark: Yeah, I I thought of excuse me, I thought of bitter foods. especially things like greens. And I really like arugula. That's been something that just recently, for whatever reason, I kinda got into and bought a couple of times at the store back to back and just kept eating it. I don't know if I had that specific thing, but like green, like salads that have bitter greens in there, I really would be turned off by and bitter bitterness comes to mind a lot of like those flavors just being so really off putting when I was a kid and it's such a thing where you kind of acquire that taste and I guess now my brain goes to coffee of like acquiring that taste over time. I didn't start drinking coffee until I was in my late twenties and now I'm like very into coffee and have it at least two times a day pretty much nowadays. So that's interesting 'cause it's such one of those flavors that's very bitter, if especially if you have you know, back when I was a kid, I don't think there was any like cool hipster coffee around it. was just like folgers, whatever. It's so bitter, not Christiana Cortina: Ha ha Chef Mark: nuanced, kinda burnt, had a lot of bitter flavors going on. It was just not pleasant. But it takes time to learn how to appreciate it. And then those things become so addictive, I think. Christiana Cortina: And it's funny that you say there was no hipster coffee, but I have completely vivid memories of me and my best friend going to the mall in sixth grade and getting something called a mu latte. And it was basically a coffee like frappuccino with tons of caramel and whipped cream. And I mean we'd get that and walk around the mall. We were like, we love Chef Mark: yeah. Christiana Cortina: coffee. And now I'd say pretty much drink my coffee, sometimes black, sometimes with a little cream, but definitely. I definitely leaned into the more bitter coffee as I got older, which brings my mind to something that I had to do some research on because I wasn't sure if it was true, which is Chef Mark: Yeah. Christiana Cortina: do our taste buds change every seven years? Chef Mark: Ooh. Christiana Cortina: I think I hear a lot of parents say this. I mean, I can't say that I'm not guilty of saying it either, but in a kids had I think seven years feels like a significant amount of time. Chef Mark: Yes. Christiana Cortina: but I actually read that your taste buds regenerate every ten to fourteen days. Chef Mark: Whoa, so that's really different. Christiana Cortina: It's really different. And basically it says the seven-year myth came from the general biological estimate that many cells in our body turn over or replace themselves every seven to ten years. Yeah, so Chef Mark: Okay, I've heard that one. Yes. Christiana Cortina: it seems like some people must have jumped to conclusions, but individual taste buds actually live for like only 10 to 14 days. so yeah. Chef Mark: That's so interesting. Christiana Cortina: It is. Chef Mark: So I'm I'm just wanting to gather a little more thoughts around that. It sounds like parents are using the seven years like your taste buds are gonna change as an encouragement? Like, is that supposed to be like encouraging like, well, if you don't like this now, you might like it later. You're Christiana Cortina: you might like it. Yes. Yeah, and it's not n necessarily a bad thing to say. I Chef Mark: Mm-hmm. Christiana Cortina: think even knowing that 10 to 14 days, like you could say that, I don't think that would be negative to Chef Mark: Mm-hmm. Christiana Cortina: say, as long as there's not like pressure underneath and more of like, you might like it this time. when you said arugula, I literally hate arugula. Chef Mark: Mm. Christiana Cortina: I think it tastes like dirt. And in my brain, I Chef Mark: Mm. Christiana Cortina: I think there's a reason for that. I think some people think it tastes like dirt. Chef Mark: I was just I was actually just hearing that same thing. It was in reference to beets and the how earthy and dirty dirty they taste. And that being the same kind of like on or off why what am I thinking of? Gene. An on or off Christiana Cortina: Jean? Yeah. Chef Mark: gene, the same as like the cilantro tasting soap. And literally a certain person will perceive it being soapy, or if it's a beet or rub, perceive it as big dirt tasting. Yeah. Okay. Christiana Cortina: That's so interesting because I hate beats too. I don't like beats at all. Chef Mark: Same reason. Christiana Cortina: So About it. I'm just like, ugh, I don't like this. So the Chef Mark: Okay. Yeah. Christiana Cortina: next time I try them, because I'm open to trying again, Chef Mark: Mm-hmm. Christiana Cortina: always, now especially that I know 10 to 14 days, but I'll be interested to see. something else I found interesting is that your likes and dislikes are largely managed by your brain, not just your tongue. Chef Mark: That really resonates with me. I feel like that's how the human experience is. like we're having our tongue be the receptor, but our preference can be changed by our thoughts. And I'll actually give an example right now. I was telling this story when I was teaching cooking in elementary schools, and I would go to the classrooms and talk about how today you might not like the thing that I'm gonna make for you and that's okay. But keep tasting and keep trying it because it might change and here's my story. I bought a six pack of these little green juice bottles from Costco. This was probably about 10 years ago. And my goal was to have more greens and have it be a convenient way to get some nutrients. The first sip of it I was so turned off. I thought it was just disgusting. I was like, this is terrible. I don't even remember if I finished the first one. And I had the intention of returning it because Costco's liberal return policy. I was like, let's do it. Christiana Cortina: Yeah. Chef Mark: And then I was like I kind of second guessed the next morning. Maybe when I woke up and saw the five bottles left in the fridge, I was like, well, I'll give it a go. It's here. It will serve the purpose of me getting the nutrients that I wanted and having some more greens conveniently. Let's try it again. And weirdly, I noticed that I hated it less. I didn't love it, I didn't like it, but I hated it less than the first day. And it was literally a day-over-day progression. By Wednesday, I felt kind of neutral about it. And then I was curious and looking forward to it by Thursday and started to have a small enjoyment of it. And by Friday I was really enjoying it and planned to buy it again. And that's a pretty rapid progression. And I even told the kids, like that's unique and very quick. And I'm an adult and I had a lot of I was able to parent myself during that time. But I thought that was so so cool to like have in that short period of time I changed how I felt about something. It was the exact same tongue that I owned. I hadn't even had a chance Christiana Cortina: Yeah. Chef Mark: to turn over those taste buds. And I just kept tasting it and kept having a different perception each time that I went for it. Christiana Cortina: Yeah, that's so cool. Did any of the kids resonate with your story? Chef Mark: I feel like I did see them being encouraged and just like really like listening and I I tried to tell it in an engaging way. So I I I just remember the the classrooms full of kids kind like being like, Whoa, like that okay, all right, that's interesting. Like I think they were open, it was helping them open their minds to what they might experience with all kinds of foods and what we were tasting in class. Christiana Cortina: Yeah, I love that. I love how you gave them permission to not like what you were gonna make today too. And then leaving it up to them but telling them a story about you and kind of like you said, growing your preference for the green juice. Chef Mark: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Did you have any more stuff that you discovered in research about the taste buds and them changing? Christiana Cortina: No. Really, I didn't go super deep into it. but just something again when I think of preferences and tasting. I have a lot of parents who will say to me, when they have a baby and their baby starts trying new foods, they're super accepting of so many things and they're willing to eat pretty much everything. And then once they get into toddler years, sometimes early toddler, sometimes late. Later that they start to reject a lot of foods that they used to accept. And to me, you know, that's them starting to develop their preferences. And as parents or as adults around, it's not our job to get them. to change their preferences or to get them Chef Mark: Mm. Christiana Cortina: to like something or eat something that we think they should eat. But it's our job to keep serving different types of foods so that kids have the opportunity to develop different preferences, kind of like your example. Chef Mark: Yeah, and that that seems really helpful. have you observed even more changes developmentally past the kind of infant to toddler and then beyond have you just observed lots of ups and downs and changes in the human development side of things? Christiana Cortina: Yeah, definitely there's different there's so much in in developmentally with kids that can change. The one thing with I think the one from baby to toddler is so significant too because when your baby is growing from a baby to a toddler, they're growing so rapidly. So they're Chef Mark: Mm. Christiana Cortina: going to like consume way more nutrients. But then in toddler years, their growth is slowing down. So they're also probably eating less, it seems, and that can be Alarming. So that Chef Mark: Mm. Christiana Cortina: I think is the one that's most, and it's like they're kind of first starting to have their preferences. So I feel like that's the most significant. Chef Mark: Mm. Christiana Cortina: The other thing I wanted to mention too is we were kind of talking about like making it a game and saying, like, like this is so gross, like, and making it fun if you don't like something. Chef Mark: Mm-hmm. Christiana Cortina: And it made me think too, like some kids who especially I think of like neurodivergent kiddos with autism or ADHD ADHD. Can be super sensitive to those experiences. And Chef Mark: Mm-hmm. Christiana Cortina: there can be a lot more fear and discomfort for those kiddos. So I think giving an extra like safe environment and support is important because they Chef Mark: Mm. Christiana Cortina: usually have a preference for something that is predictable and going to taste the same every single time. Chef Mark: That's a really, really nice reminder and just like a heads up there. I appreciate that and just a need for everyone to have safety, but maybe even extra in certain environments. And as always, if you're a parent with a kid, you know your kid the best and know what their needs are and just providing that predictability and safety and openness and maybe there's not much space to be trying new foods. May maybe that actually isn't the best thing for your family right now. Christiana Cortina: Yeah, thanks for saying that. Or something else I I know we're hopping around today, but Chef Mark: Yeah, yeah. Christiana Cortina: I want to ask, go back to our other question, is there something that you really loved as a kid that you don't like now? Chef Mark: For some reason that feels a lot easier to answer. And I feel like middle school me just like my interests and tastes were just so basic and going for a lot of like processed and fast food and stuff like that. And I think of I had these dehydrated potato things that were in a little cup. Did you have these too? It's the weirdest Christiana Cortina: Wait. Chef Mark: thing. It was like a little almost like the idea of like instant noodles, but it was in a cup and it was mashed potatoes, and you just either microwaved it or put in some boiling water. And they were in from Costco in like three packs. And it was like a basic one that was just like butter and salt, one that had kind of like chives and onion flavor, and then one that maybe had some sort of cheese. And I loved those, but it just sounds I haven't had one since then but it just sounds gross. It just sounds like why what I don't want that. I want I would I would make real mashed potatoes but I just don't really want that Christiana Cortina: Yeah, that's so funny. I used to love packaged mashed potatoes. And I don't know if I ever had those specific ones, but any of the box ones, like the flakes, was like these are so good. Yeah. Chef Mark: Actually I did too. My my dad would make those if he ever was like helping assist to dinner. He would make mashed potatoes and I just put that in quotes into taking a box and rehydrating the potato flakes. But you know what I I know what I liked about it, actually, when I think about it right now. Both Christiana Cortina: Mm. Chef Mark: of those things, the texture was super smooth and uniform. And Christiana Cortina: Mm-hmm, I was Yep. And the same every single time. Chef Mark: Super same, so consistent. That's the some of the real like feats of modern food where it's like fast food or packaged food, so consistent in a way that array like cooking with whole ingredients and fruits and vegetables are so different. You cannot have that same level of predictability every time. So it's kind of amazing and can be really comforting for a kid and especially whatever developmental stage you're in. Christiana Cortina: Yeah, for sure. I love that you said that. Chef Mark: How about ya? What what's a food you liked that you would not be interested in eating now? Christiana Cortina: there's so many, too, but there's something I really think of that is kind of funny now. every time I got home from school in like middle school or as a high schooler, my mom would have lean cuisines. Do you know what those are? Yeah, like so early 2000s, lean cuisines. Chef Mark: Yes, like frozen, right? Yeah, totally. Uh-huh. Christiana Cortina: but she always bought me the raviolis. And Chef Mark: Mm-hmm. Christiana Cortina: But listen, there was four raviolis because it was a a diet food, I I think. lean cuisine. So Chef Mark: yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it sounds like very much that's the goal. Christiana Cortina: I loved it, it's just cheese raviolis and a smooth red sauce, and you made it in the microwave. So was like fast and comforting and easy. So and I loved the taste, but I remember I would eat one and be like, I'm still like starving. Chef Mark: That's such a small amount of food. Christiana Cortina: I know it. Such a and I sometimes I think I would make two, but then I would be like, my gosh, I'm still hungry. But you know, I was a teenager, so I was growing and you Chef Mark: Yeah. Christiana Cortina: using my brain a lot, and the lean cuisines were not cutting it. I have not had one in a really long time, but I don't imagine that they would be something I would enjoy today. Chef Mark: Yeah. Was that one of the ones that had other side dishes like in little compartments on the tray, or is it a single food item? Christiana Cortina: This one was a single food item. I think some of the lean cuisines, I think there was this other one too. It was like a sesame chicken with noodles, Chef Mark: Hmm. Christiana Cortina: but it would have I want to say twelve noodles. And I was like, okay. Chef Mark: Wow, that's pretty it's pretty intense and overt of like this is a diet food, you get very little food. Christiana Cortina: It was, yes, but it didn't taste bad to me. I just Chef Mark: Yeah. Christiana Cortina: think I always was like, okay, I need more food. Chef Mark: I'd be curious to know yeah, what their approach was 'cause it sounds like it's really the portion size versus the types of ingredients and what they were putting into it. Would you guess that it was like normal wheat, normal cheese, normal like Christiana Cortina: Mm-hmm. Which I think is so funny because I think it just shows how diet culture shifts. early Chef Mark: Yeah. Christiana Cortina: 90s or 90s, late 90s, early 2000s was very much low calorie, low fat, Chef Mark: Yeah. Christiana Cortina: portion sizes, eating less. And now I think there's a lot of diet culture focus on ingredients and whole foods and clean eating. Chef Mark: Mm-hmm. Christiana Cortina: so yeah, I think it is really interesting. and you know, there was all the 100 calories. packs and Chef Mark: Yes. Christiana Cortina: you'd get like I remember those little cookies with the fudge stripes on top. Do you know what I'm talking about? They were like vanilla with a hole Chef Mark: Hmm maybe. Christiana Cortina: in the middle. Chef Mark: kind of, yeah. It it's kind of making me think of like a Girl Scout type cookie, but maybe not. Were they were they Kebler? Okay. Okay, it's like a diet brand. Christiana Cortina: Yeah, they were just small, maybe, but I think they were a di a diet brand of Kebler. And it was a hundred calories and there would be six cookies, really tiny in there. I was like, okay. Yeah. I'm like, okay, I'm starving. Chef Mark: the size of a quarter, tiny little nice. That's so rough, yeah. Christiana Cortina: Yeah. Chef Mark: And if like there's a different approach now, it's like Frankensteining together, like here's this food you used to like, but now we're gonna make it with like different ingredients and we're gonna replace this with that and put together a new thing. I'll just briefly share. I got consulted and ended up not even working with them because the company literally folded before I had a chance to have them sign my contract. But there was a lady who was trying to make hash browns and she thought potatoes were not good. For some reason I was like, what's wrong? Literally hash browns. Commercial hash browns are one of the most perfected foods in the world. Like the McDonald's style. It's literally perfect. It's so crispy, so good. She was gonna remake them with both lentils and And bind it together with some yeast slurry. And they tasted disgusting. I got a sample to and it was actually someone I had worked with and he was doing marketing for that company. I'd worked with him at a different company, shared some with me and was like, hey, tell tell me like what you think, get some feedback, maybe we could do a collaboration, have you make them but it was so disgusting. I I have had very few foods in my life where I had to actually spit it out as an adult. I couldn't even finish chewing and laugh about it. It was so wrong. Christiana Cortina: no, that there's so many things like that right now on the market I feel like, and the marketing is usually phenomenal. Yeah. Chef Mark: their website looked amazing. I was like, yeah, this is the food of the future, but I was also like, Why? Why does it need to be different than Christiana Cortina: Mm. Chef Mark: our regular really good hash browns that we've perfected as Americans? Christiana Cortina: Yes, there's nothing I hate more than when you go on social media and they're like, make this better for you dessert with cottage cheese and I'm like, ugh, no thanks. Not my pref not my preference. I'll have the real deal. Chef Mark: Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. yeah, I guess I was thinking about other foods as a kid that I might have liked and didn't like, but on the same vein I had canned Chef Boy RD like meat sauce and pasta in a little can. Christiana Cortina: Can I can picture it. I feel like I could be a sketch artist and draw exactly what Chef Mark: okay. Christiana Cortina: you're talking about. Chef Mark: Yeah. And I think there was a couple of varieties. One was maybe like a spaghetti and meatballs. Like there tiny little meatballs that were like the size of a dime. And then the one that was more like a meat sauce and maybe a ravioli. Christiana Cortina: Mm-hmm. yeah, the Chefoyardi ravioli was one of my favorite things. Yeah. Chef Mark: I loved it. Also, okay, so I have to give myself some cred or I don't know what the word is, some space here. I haven't had either of those dehydrated mashed potatoes or any canned Chef Boy RD products since I was in middle school, so Christiana Cortina: I recently witnessed my little cousin eating spaghettios, and there's nothing I want less than to try them now. I looked at them, I smelled them, and I was like, yep, not for me. But as a kid, you know, they were predictable, they were easy, they were fast. She even, I said, why don't Chef Mark: Yeah. Christiana Cortina: we make them on the stove? And she was like, ew, I'm making them in the microwave. And I was like, okay. What? Chef Mark: Interesting. Okay. Cause the heating method would make them gross. Okay. So r I'm I'm Christiana Cortina: So funny. Chef Mark: I'm thinking that the flavor is in such a narrow range. Like Christiana Cortina: So Chef Mark: maybe that's why it's so easy and kind of predictable as a kid, because it's kind of like Very smooth, a little sweet, Christiana Cortina: Mm-hmm. Chef Mark: creamy, not very salty, not acidic. Like I want my tomato sauce to like have some salt and some acidity to like really kind of pop out at me. But I feel like the spaghetti is just really middle of the road, just like this narrow little band. I'm just picturing this narrow strip of where the flavor is and other foods that I want to make have all these different like peaks and spikes popping out of it on this graph of the food fl flavor spectrum. Does that does that resonate? Christiana Cortina: Yes, yes. It's very flat tasting. I can still taste Chef Mark: Flat. Perfect. Christiana Cortina: it. And I just wanna also put a disclosure that I'm not hating on her spaghettios in front of her. Especially when she says, I wanna make them in the microwave. I I didn't get grossed out to Chef Mark: Mm-hmm. Christiana Cortina: her, but I my face might have, but I was just like, okay, that's your preference. And I think that there's something to be said here of celebrating kids' preferences. obviously not just giving them a free-for-all to eat whatever they want, whenever they want, but celebrating what they like and what they don't like and offering kids different foods. Including the ones that they prefer, because that's a way that kids feel cared for when you're taking their preferences into consideration. Chef Mark: That's really I love that last point, really seeing them and seeing this is one of your favorite things. You don't like Het on the stovetop, let's make it in the microwave Christiana Cortina: Ha ha. Chef Mark: and love that for you. And that that's like I think bringing around the the theme of what today's episode is all about and is celebrating preferences. And as you and I are discussing our own maybe strong feelings and maybe you and I are in agreement today, it might sound like if someone was listening in, like a kid or just another person, it might sound like we're ganging up on them if they had a different preference. And so I I really try to in my cooking classes let every kid have their own full individual experience. And then if someone really doesn't like it, let them say it that way. And let's actually rephrase our language because I have a rule in my class that we actually don't use the word yuck and we don't say that's gross. Christiana Cortina: Mm-hmm. Chef Mark: We're not deeming this food something. We're saying that's not for me. I don't like it. And I and I even sometimes surprise the kids because they've actually probably had a lot of pretty good training in this generation, and they're oftentimes. Shocked if I say, Is it okay to say I don't like it? no, no, that's wrong. That's you can't say that. I'm like, you can actually say I don't like it. That's Christiana Cortina: Ha ha ha. Chef Mark: you that's your preference. And Because they're they are trying to be kind to each other. And I think that's pretty cool to just really carve out that space and it and it requires some effort. And I think just in general, like as humans, it's hard to do to celebrate someone else's preference, hold your own and be like, I think that's the grossest thing that I would never want to put in my mouth. You like it. That's cool for you. I'd Christiana Cortina: Yes. Chef Mark: Don't think less of you. I sell him your friend. Like that's hard to do. Christiana Cortina: It is. I love that you do that in your classes because that's one of our rules. I guess not really a rule, but not yuck. Chef Mark: Mm-hmm. Christiana Cortina: We say like we don't yuck someone's yum. Chef Mark: Mm-hmm. Christiana Cortina: you know, we don't say that's gross or ooh, because someone else might like it. So we want Chef Mark: Mm. Christiana Cortina: to be respectful. but we're allowed to not like it. And we're allowed Chef Mark: Mm-hmm. Christiana Cortina: to respectfully spit it out. Chef Mark: Mm. Christiana Cortina: without, making a big scene of this is disgusting so that we can take into account that somebody else might enjoy it and it might be their preference. Chef Mark: Yeah. And the more descriptive that I can coach everyone to be with their language Then it takes away that full global judgment of the food and saying, that's gross, that's a bad thing, and then makes the other person think, well, if I like that, I like a bad thing. You can just like really talk about it and talk about Silver Me spaghettios. I think of how soft the texture of the the noodles is. I don't want that. I want some bite in the pasta. So that is unappealing to me. And I want the sauce to be saltier. I want the sauce to be more acidic. I want the color to be brighter red and like deeper, not pale. Orange. those th those are the things that I want in my in my pasta experience. And I'm not just going, spaghettios is so gross and if you like it then there's something wrong with you and you're gross. Christiana Cortina: Yeah. That's such a good point. I encourage parents when kids say they don't like a food to ask them what they don't like about it. Kind of what Chef Mark: Mm. Christiana Cortina: you're saying, like do you not like that it's sour? Or do you what does it remind you of? Like kind of trying to help them develop that language and make comparisons, Chef Mark: Mm. Christiana Cortina: like, if it tasted different, like what could be different about it that you might like it? because you know, I have a kid who always says, I I hate tomatoes, but they love ketchup Chef Mark: Mm. Christiana Cortina: and spaghetti sauce. So I always remind them, I'm like, well, you like spaghetti sauce and ketchup, and those are made of tomatoes, so you just like them in different ways. Chef Mark: Yeah. Christiana Cortina: so kind of like reminding them that there's this like growth mindset to have when it comes to disliking food, and maybe you're gonna have a food that you're never gonna like your whole life. for me, I think that's salmon. I've really, Chef Mark: Mm. Christiana Cortina: really tried, and I don't think. Salmon is gross. I do want to like salmon, but for some Chef Mark: Mm. Christiana Cortina: reason I can't do it. I've tried. You know I've tried. I've sent you my salmon Chef Mark: Yeah. Christiana Cortina: photos. And sometimes I'll be like, okay, I think I like it. And then the next time I'm like, nope, not for me. So and that's okay. Yeah. Chef Mark: You're trying. You're yeah, you're you're you're putting it yourself out there and exposing yourself to Christiana Cortina: Ha ha Chef Mark: it. And that's okay if you end up just still not liking it. Christiana Cortina: It is, it is. Chef Mark: I think I have an instinct to want everyone to all foods and well there's just some way that you need to taste it and then you'll love it. But that's just not the case. And like that's a perfect example for you with the salmon. Christiana Cortina: It is and I really feel like I'm missing out. I'm like, Chef Mark: Mm. Christiana Cortina: there's so many more recipes I could make. And you know, that's like a good staple of like every week we have, you know, chicken one time and maybe ground Chef Mark: Yeah. Christiana Cortina: beef and then salmon. So I'm like trying to make that part of my life and it just hasn't worked out for me in a positive way. Chef Mark: Yeah, and that that's okay. I think just making peace with that is also okay. Yeah. Christiana Cortina: It's okay, you're right. Thanks for giving me permission to do that. Chef Mark: But it it does require like those multiple experiences, trying it over different years as you're changing as a person, trying lots of different preparation methods, and there's different ways. I I think of ways to cook it, like if it's on the stovetop, if it's baked, what etc. And then also different cultures, how do people treat that product or that ingredient throughout the world? What are preparation methods that people have discovered? That's always a fun way to try to find something that could work for you. But if you've had enough of them and you don't still like it, that's okay. that's where you're at, Christiana Cortina: Yeah, and I think too another thing that comes to mind just for myself is when I have tried to make a salmon dish and then either been okay with it or not liked it, I give myself a lot of space to wait to do that again. Chef Mark: Mm. Christiana Cortina: so with kids, you know, if you're serving things and all of a sudden, you know, they ate broccoli the last three times you served it and you serve it again and they're like, I hate broccoli. Chef Mark: Mm. Christiana Cortina: Maybe don't serve it the next day, but maybe in two weeks, try again, don't say anything about it, and just, give that space of taking a break from something and then reintroducing it. So it seems like you're taking their preferences into account. Because if I was saying, I really hate salmon and then I came over your house for dinner and you made me salmon that day, I'd be like, thanks. Chef Mark: Yeah. I think that that's really good. I like just giving yourself the space because as adults we kind of need to parent ourselves, right? Like we we need to take that role of like an adult who's looking down at us, maybe a little bit and like, I'm gonna give you some space for that, but let's try it again later. And then as Christiana Cortina: Yeah. Chef Mark: the child we can like receive it and like taste it again, like, but I still don't like it. And then Christiana Cortina: Ha ha ha ha. Chef Mark: other role, you go, Okay, that's all right. Well, we'll either try again, later again. Good good for you. Christiana Cortina: You tried. Chef Mark: Good for you, bud. Christiana Cortina: Okay, well to close out, I want to ask you one more question about preferences. Chef Mark: Yeah. Christiana Cortina: Do you have any preferences when it comes to food that would be controversial to most people? Chef Mark: that's a really nice question. I like it. controversial. Let me think about that. Let me let me just take a moment and think about it. Yeah. Do you do Christiana Cortina: Okay. You know what I mean to tell you, Mai? Chef Mark: yeah, you do you have one already l locked and loaded? Okay. Christiana Cortina: two the first one is much more controversial which is I like my fruit mushy I like it Chef Mark: Okay, say more, say more, I'm listening. Christiana Cortina: Prefer my fruit to be more overripe than perfect or underripe. like strawberries, blueberry, all I want to say pretty much all fruit. Like I prefer it to Chef Mark: Mm. Christiana Cortina: be really ripe, maybe because I like it sweeter, but I like the texture, Chef Mark: Yeah. Christiana Cortina: which I yeah, people don't I don't I don't know if I've met anybody who's like, me too. Usually people are like, okay. Chef Mark: Yeah, I I can't imagine enjoying the mushy texture. So I can't Christiana Cortina: Ha ha ha. Chef Mark: I'm like trying to meet you. I'm like, okay, I can see the sweetness. Like more sugars have developed. Cool. And then you're like, I like the texture. I'm like, hmm, okay. That's not for me. Christiana Cortina: Yeah, that's that's definitely my most controversial. My other one is I like french fries with mayonnaise. Chef Mark: I feel like that's not terribly different. I would say in the US that's not Christiana Cortina: Yes. Chef Mark: popular opinion, but I think in France maybe that's I think Christiana Cortina: Really? Chef Mark: and really come at me in the comments or whatever people do. I don't know if that's true or not, but I think I think that's a a thing in other parts of the world. Like mayo is a pretty popular I'm I'm not too upset about that. That sounds pretty great. Christiana Cortina: is less controversial. Some people don't aren't on board, but I think it's becoming more popular. Like a lot of fries will be served with like an aioli, which love that. Love it. Chef Mark: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Totally. And I'll I'll just take a quick detour to say I think mayonnaise gets way too bad of a rap and Christiana Cortina: Mm-hmm. Chef Mark: people I actually, okay, that's a food that I thought was gross as a kid that I really like now. And I think the main discovery is having good homemade mayo at a restaurant to start with, and and then working in a restaurant and making it, seeing what goes into it. And when you make it homemade, it's literally like fresh lemon juice, a little bit of Dijon mustard, salt, and then oil. And there's an egg in there to help bring everything together and hold it together. And I have a beautiful recipe for egg-free homemade mayo that's kid friendly, that kids can make and tastes good. I've gotten ninety plus percent of kids to enjoy it and I use chickpeas in mine instead of an egg and that helps emulsify in the same way it has lecithin and brings together the oil and the small amount of lemon juice and it binds and keeps it into a semi-solid form. Christiana Cortina: Wait, should I make that? Should that be my recipe? I think it should be your recipe. Okay. Chef Mark: I think that should be a recipe. I have to ask, do you have an immersion blender? Christiana Cortina: No, can I use my food processor? Chef Mark: I think you can use your mini food processor. Christiana Cortina: Okay, okay. Chef Mark: And and I think, and maybe we can talk offline, but maybe yours has the the lid with a tiny little hole at some point in it. Christiana Cortina: Mm-hmm. Chef Mark: And that's what actually what that's for is to control drizzle in the oil. I'll go right Christiana Cortina: Okay. Chef Mark: on I'll go onto this little off-ramp here onto the recipe and then I'll come back to if I have a controversial food opinion. the way that mayo needs to work is you have to break the oil into small enough droplets mechanically, with a machine of some sort, and then those tiny teeny little bits of like a sub-droplet can just kind of stay floating. basically in the rest of the liquid. And in your case it will be blended up chickpea liquid from a can of chickpeas. So another great way to start making your mayo is take your can of chickpeas and drain out the liquid and then save that and make hummus. And so I actually Christiana Cortina: Mm. Chef Mark: a lot of times do those two recipes at the same time. So we're in reverse order here so I'm sure you do not have the liquid from your chickpeas anymore. Christiana Cortina: No, it said save it and I said, I don't think I'm gonna this. Which is so funny, but that's okay. Chef Mark: Well, that's okay. Was it in my recipe that I say save it? Christiana Cortina: Yeah. Chef Mark: I'm I'm amazing. I didn't remember that I said that. Christiana Cortina: It said it and I knew there was a reason, but I it was just another stem. Chef Mark: You didn't you didn't even I didn't even know why it was so important right now. Save it so you can make the mayo. So you have your your liquid base in the food processor, and then as the blades are running the entire time, little stream of oil will go in, and as it hits the blades, it'll break into even tinier pieces, and then it'll stay all put together. And if that doesn't happen, the oil is too It's it loves it each other too much and the little droplets want to join back together and then you have separated oil and not a thickened mayo. And that's with all kinds of dressings and vinaigrette. If you don't get that like agitation to break up the oil small enough, then it doesn't stay separated and just wants to come back and join with itself and then separate out of the water base. Yeah. Cool. Christiana Cortina: Mm. Okay, well I'll send you a picture of my food processor and you can let me know. Okay, it's the best meal. I'm excited. Chef Mark: Okay, and it's the best mayo. Listeners, make this mayo. It's dead simple. The ingredients I listed are the ingredients, and that's why it's so good, because it's once again fresh lemon juice. And for me, Christiana Cortina: Mm. Chef Mark: that is the difference again between like store-bought mayo, which uses vinegar, and white vinegar is very one-dimensional and very harsh tasting to my taste buds. Christiana Cortina: Mm-hmm. Chef Mark: And lemon is just so much more nuanced. And if if you are making it yourself with fresh lemon juice, you will have all of those fragrant compounds still there, available, and it just tastes and smells. Smells so good. And from there you can make all kinds of dips and dressings and dip your french fries in there and all kinds of stuff. It's really, really good. Yes. Christiana Cortina: Wait, I have to ask you, what is your favorite store-bought mayo brand? Since we're talking about preferences. Chef Mark: Well, I was vegan for six years, and during that time I would buy the Follow Your Heart brand. Yeah, Christiana Cortina: I never heard of that. Chef Mark: they're they're amazing. They've actually been doing dairy-free cheese and things for thirty plus years, maybe forty. Christiana Cortina: wow. Chef Mark: Yeah, they've they've been in the game for a long time, maybe since the eighties. and th and theirs is Christiana Cortina: Okay. Do you have an Chef Mark: really good. It's super clean tasting. I just like that. It was like neutral, salty, and yummy. Christiana Cortina: Do you have an flavor that's not vegan that you like? Or a brand? Chef Mark: I haven't purchased mayo in such a long time because I make homemade mayo routinely and I r and I restock Christiana Cortina: Okay. 'Cause you make it yourself. Chef Mark: it. When I run out, I get sad and then I make sure to restock it and the main ingredient to buy is I'll get vegetable oil. So that's soybean oil. And my recipe, I think you just need about one cup of it to make a good portion of mayo. But a lot of times I'm doing a double batch of it just to have it on hand. It lasts so long. There's it's so staple. The the fat encapsulating everything is such a good preservative naturally. It's like blocking oxygen from touching the lemon juice and other whatever chickpeas. So it just stays for months in the fridge. But I do not let it last that long because I we eat it so much and make I make a lot of Caesar dressing with it, like a homemade Caesar. It's really good. Yeah. Christiana Cortina: Ooh, that sounds good. I'm gonna try that. Okay. Did you think of your T. Chef Mark: Let me think of a conversion a controversial take. Christiana Cortina: You don't have one? That is like such a chef thing to not have one. Chef Mark: Yeah, and maybe it's because I just think my opinions are great. That's probably it's probably just ego. Christiana Cortina: It's definitely what it is. Chef Mark: It's like, well I make really good food and everyone would like that. That's so silly. Why would you not like what I make? Christiana Cortina: That's so true. I think that's what it is, but you'll have to tell me if you think of one. Chef Mark: Yeah, it's not even a a controversial preference or anything. I'm just thinking about how I eat my French fries, because you were tick talking about fries. I'd my method is just a little like animalistic. I'll take so many, I'll take like five or six into one cluster and like just take a huge bite. And that's like very much my personality. I want huge bites of like dense food in my mouth. Christiana Cortina: I could relate to that. Chef Mark: Okay, well that that's it for today. Christiana Cortina: Yeah, thanks for listening and we'll see you next time. Chef Mark: See you next time.