Latest / Around the Kinky Kampfire Podcast / EP 48 | Embracing Authenticity: Navigating Alternative Lifestyles and Identity with Shannon Elliott

Transcript

EP 48 | Embracing Authenticity: Navigating Alternative Lifestyles and Identity with Shannon Elliott · Around the Kinky Kampfire Podcast

• 0:58
  Speaker 1: Welcome back everybody to another episode of the bonfire that's kinky the crispy cinders that are being blown to bigger things around the Kinky Campfire, to bigger things around the kinky campfire.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: Once again, I'm joined with the fabulous and most, uh, amazing person ever, and I will let her introduce herself once again.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: Who am I with today?
• 1:25
  Speaker 2: okay, once again, I'm shannon elliott.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Um, I am a bisexual woman.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: I am a bisexual woman, I am a kinkster, I am a swinger, I am an author who writes queer kinky romance and I'm just excited to be here to talk all things polyamorous kinky things.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: That is great.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: And today I amepy Nuts that is my name.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: Today I am here to talk about also as well, the BDSM, kinky, non-monogamy things, maybe a little bit of geeky we were talking about fantasy stuff and unicorns before, and maybe that'll come up again or you can just call me HH, julius, julius for shorts or Jules.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: I'm the entertainment creative or host of Around the Kiki Campfire Campfire with a K.
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: We are here today to talk about more interesting things and give Shannon more questions about what she do and all those other things.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: But before we get into today's topic, we have our ASMR 30 seconds now.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: It's officially 30 seconds.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: Oh love it.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: Okay, I am still drinking a sparkling ice plus caffeine black raspberry, which was delicious before and not sponsored once again.
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: What are you drinking?
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: I'm drinking once again Dr Pepper out of a spank me like you mean it cup that I got at a swingers conference.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: Sponsor me.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: Did you manage to get any sponsors in between last episode and this episode?
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: No, no, and I'm really upset about it.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, not sponsored, but please, we will whore ourselves out for a sponsorship.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: I will.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: Oh boy, I'm telling you what.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: Listen, there is a youtube channel that is attached to this podcast and there's some sponsorship readings by a not sponsored person, but I think they did a very good job, in my humble opinion, because I edited it and I, I'm in the, I'm in the short.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: Let's just say that, okay, no spoilers, yeah, okay, so we will start our asmr.
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: 30 seconds, 10 seconds here, in a count of three, two.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: Ah, black raspberry.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: It's good, good stuff, whatever the 23 flavors of dr pepper are I actually don't even.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know anything about dr pepper.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: I'd like dr pepper, but it's like what is it exactly?
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: And like what's the difference between that and mr pip?
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: I don't know um, oh wow, people really do.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: There are 23 flavors of Dr Pepper.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: Do you want me to list them, or is that boring?
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: give me, give me like five really good ones okay, birch, what the heck is birch?
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: like a tree, I think.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: Who's drinking trees?
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: Prickly anise, which like makes a little bit of sense.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: It's got a little spice in it and then let's see what are other good ones amaretto's in there, but I think the one that most people like taste is the like cola, cherry, licorice.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: Those are the main three, I think licorice, cola, cherry licorice.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: Okay, I could, yeah that I could taste the licorice.
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: I'm not tasting trees, though, birch, what, the what, what, I don't know.
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: Anyways, dr Pepper, I will say your drink is amazing and you can find it on all your local retailers.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: And yeah, not sponsored.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: But that was my sponsor pitch right there.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: We're doing a great job.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, goodness, I don't know.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: I think I'll probably like wet myself a little bit, just if I ever get an actual sponsorship, I'll be so excited.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: We're like oh my goodness my goodness gracious we'll get there yeah, hopefully and like on a little side tangent I've I've had to look into like a sponsorship pitch there's a lot that goes into that.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: Have you pitched for a sponsorship before had?
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: to do that?
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: No, I have not, and it sounds very intimidating.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: It is.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: I feel like that's something that I would like find someone else to do for me.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: See, I need a little bit of money and then just get all the people who do everything for me, because, yeah, they want your metrics, see I need a little bit of money and then just get all the people who do everything for me Because, yeah, they want your metrics you need the sponsorship in order to pay for the sponsorship person to do the sponsorship stuff.
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: It's very confusing.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: I think I'll have to actually whore myself out for real, on a real note, to actually do that.
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: I do have an OnlyFans account.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: I haven't shown my butthole yet, but it's there.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, get six figures if you show your butthole.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: Men and women.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: Just a little side note there for you campsters or anybody that's thinking about OnlyFans Show your butthole.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: If you have no problem showing your butthole, get paid for it.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: That's all I got to say.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, metrics, that's exactly what you were talking about in the last episode.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: You got to have the metrics to back it up.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: Yes, and in this case I could up into the butthole.
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: I know it didn't say you had to put anything in the butthole, you could back your butthole into the camera.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: There you go, put that just in a nice little HD, okay, anyway, oh, that was another Now, see, oh, that was another now.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: See, now we're tangening again.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: Now we're having a conversation.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: Do you know what a mukbang is?
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: I've heard of it before.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: I could not give you a definition okay, so it started.
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: Mukbang is a mukbang is uh videos right is the eating videos.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: It started in korea.
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: What happened was I think it started before quarantine, but basically a lot of people you know, with the advent of the internet you don't have to go outside the house, you can just watch a video, and a lot of people are watching videos while they're eating.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: So somebody decided to videotape themselves eating.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: So what a lot of people do is, when they're eating lunch or dinner or something, instead of just eating by themselves, they like to watch other people eat and talk about what they're eating so yeah, so people will eat like a whole menu of something, whatever it is, and they'll talk about the food and then they'll be by themselves or have a conversation and then that way you're not by yourself while you're eating.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so at some point would love to do a mukbang, and that is why I had that tangent going on, because I will hold myself out for some food as well as drink.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: I'm just going to hold myself out for all different kind of things.
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: That's all there is to that there, but that's my look as someone who's like so solo, polyamorous.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: Um half of dating as a woman that's really satisfying is just the fact that I can go out with people and they pay for my dinner, so I understand the desire to have someone sponsor your dinner and you can just eat on camera and, as somebody that is solo parlors and gender fluid, I invite all of the uh, the binaries to go ahead and pay for my dinner as well and and drink I.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: I fully appreciate that.
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: And yeah, omnisexual we date all over the place.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: That's.
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: I'm totally fine with all of that.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: It's great.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: Okay, enough of the side tangents, time to get serious, very, very serious about spanking booties.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: So Shannon, where would you like to go to today?
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: Because you said before that you were bisexual and then you started at 26.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: So that's an interesting jump in these last four years.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh gosh.
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: So I guess really like going back to recap for those of you who it's been a week and you've already forgotten what we talked about last week.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: I was 26 when I lost my virginity, um, and then I immediately went into like exploring my sexuality and sleeping with couples and friends and all sorts of stuff, um, and so my bisexual awakening kind of happened at the same time as, I guess, what I would call my polyamorous awakening, except for I didn't know that that's what it was, because I didn't have a term for that when I was exploring relationships with couples and other people all at the same time.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, lack of knowledge on my part.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: Not necessarily that like I wasn't engaging in those things, it was just I didn't know.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: It's like.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: It's like a unicorn.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: You don't know what a unicorn is until someone defines that a unicorn is a single bisexual female who sleeps with couples yes we're learning yes, like demisexuality and anything else but straight yes, people, people just need a little bit of education.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: Um.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: So yeah, like the beginning of my journey was like slow, especially because it happened, um, kind of in that timeline where we were going into the pandemic.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: Um, god, I don't miss being in my apartment all the time, like I was then.
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: But then when restrictions kind of started to let up a little bit, I at one point decided, you know what, for author purposes and writing, like BDSM, sex clubs, I want to see if there is like a BDSM club in my city.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: Well, didn't find that.
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: I mentioned in the last episode that I found swingers clubs.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: I want to see if there is like a BDSM club in my city.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: Well, didn't find that.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: Mentioned in the last episode that I found swingers clubs.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: And it's really interesting to me because, like in my personal journey, finding the swingers community was kind of like finding my people.
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: It was the first time that I had ever really been around people that like are non-judgmental about my interests and my wants and my needs and my desires, and like anytime I said something or was like kind of working my way through and questioning things, they were just like okay, yeah, that's great, like do what you want and figure it out on your own timeline.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: Um, and so that's really where I was able to kind of experiment with my sexuality a lot.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: It's where I really became much more confident in my body.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: You can't see me, but I'm plus size.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: Um, I am a fat woman and in our society that takes a lot of like deprogramming to undo a lot of the fat phobia that I had internalized.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: And it was one of the first experiences that I had where it's like I wasn't judged for being interested in men and women and other people.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: I wasn't judged for my body, I was desired for these things and people were interested in me and wanted to engage with me and talk to me and sleep with me and like spank me, like it was.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: It was a really freeing kind of experience for me to kind of join the lifestyle and ever since then it's been kind of.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think that's why I write about queer, kinky, polyamorous people is because I want people to see that in my work and feel just as loved and as accepted as I was when I joined these spaces, because I think fundamentally we're all just looking for like belonging in these spaces.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, yeah, I don't know if you asked me a question, or if I just went on a tangent, but I was enjoying myself the answer is yes.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: Also did it feel like a breath of fresh air, like you were home.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: Finally, was there a piece of you that's always been missing, and it felt like it just fit together like a puzzle piece yes, I I have talked about this with multiple people.
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: I talked about it at the conference that we were at together.
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: They had me um do a, um talk on like swingers clubs with another person have been on here uh, no, no okay.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: So another person who owns a BDSM dungeon and I did a talk about BDSM dungeons and clubs and when we were doing it, I cried in front of a whole ballroom full of people because for me it was like the question that we were asked at this conference when we were talking about BDSM clubs and dungeons was what is something that's missing in books that would add to like just make books better when representing clubs and dungeons?
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: And the response that both of us had as speakers was community.
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: Every time that I think of the communities that I have found in swinging, in BDSM and kink, in polyamory, it's always come back to finding that place, feeling like you fit in, not feeling like an outsider for once.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: And that's what like really I think makes people stay, is they realize that like, oh, this is, this is me, it's not just like a thing I do, it's part of my identity.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: Yep, and uh, I love it, especially in the communities, because you can, like you said, ask questions and explore and people are not judgmental about it because it's like, oh yeah, go ahead, and you can tell by those people when they say, oh really, and it's like you were judged.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: You're judged in regular life and it kind of sucks because I feel like that should be everywhere, not just in our, our community.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: It's like people just let people ask questions and be non-judgmental, judgmental about it.
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: But uh, yeah, really quickly for me, I was, uh, just part of regular society and I did a random google search and I came across fetlife and it took me a couple years to finally go to figure out what a munch was and finally go to a munch.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: And the place I was at the munch was actually at a strip club during the day, which is very interesting because once you go inside, you can dress however you want or not dress however you want.
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: But it wasn't actually a play party, it was more for demos and you know classes and stuff like that.
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: But it was interesting to me because it was like, oh, and you know classes and stuff like that, but it was interesting to me because it was like, oh, this is a very freeing space.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: And my first time people were like, do you know where you're going?
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: Because usually I just wear like cargo shorts and a t-shirt and everybody going in there was wearing like all black and leather and stuff and it was like, I think, is this that place with the munch?
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: And it's like, oh yeah, okay, well, all right, come on in.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: And the very I think it was like the first time was a social and the second time there was an actual class.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: There was a traveling dom that had classes and he was teaching about impact and he went over his backstory.
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: He was like, yeah, I was the guy that would go around and pull the girl's hair on the elementary school and run away.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: I'm like I did that, you did that too.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: And he's like now I'm the guy that ties all the people up and I spank their boobies.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: I'm like I want to do that too.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: It's like, oh, I should be here, I'm with my people and it was great.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, that whole thing of like belonging and like this is what I've been missing and that kind of just started the whole journey for me, because finding out about, about poly and everything, and it's like oh, this is what I've been missing in the queer community.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: And it's like oh, I'm not weird, there's a name for that.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: It's like, oh, one of the things that, one of the things that I always think is really interesting when I talk with people who read, is, like anyone who's read the Hunger Games and really, really hates that like Peeta and what is his name?
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: Dale or whatever, I don't know that the two male leads.
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: She has to choose between the two of them.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: Anyone who feels that way probably has a little bit of them.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: That's like slightly polyamorous, because, like I just I've never understood the concept of having to split my love between people or choose one person to love for the rest of my life.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: Why would I do that when I can just have both?
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: Exactly, it's the bisexual in me, it's the polyamorous person in me.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: Why, why not both?
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: why are we choosing?
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: You know, there's a, there's a little series out there called twilight and that, uh, that whole thing.
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: Never, you know.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: I don't know if anybody's heard of it, but it's like why, why are we choosing here this?
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: I don't.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I understand, just have the.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: You have the daytime and you have the nighttime.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: You know, you just kind of switch back and forth.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: I don't understand.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: One keeps you warm, the other cools you down.
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: Oh man, yeah.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I think the same thing too.
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: It's like why are we having choices here?
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: It doesn't make any sense, just do both of them.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: I don't get it.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: So, yes, I felt the same way.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: Why are we choosing?
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: Just pick, pick both of them, okay.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: So we talked about that.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: Where are we talking about I?
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: I went all the way down the twilight rabbit hole and then I started thinking about reality tv shows, and I don't know if you watch reality tv shows or any 90 day fiance love is blind, any of those things.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: But no, I don't really watch tv at all okay it's like fell off the map when I got really really into reading okay, man, it.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: It's just funny to watch those shows where they live in a monogamous lifestyle and people are having to choose between one person or the other.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: But then it's like the love of my life, oh, I could never.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: And it's like you could just be with both people.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: And then I don't, you just don't.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: And then, oh, don't get me started on the uh, the sister wives, people.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: Because, yeah, that's like we were talking before about the one penis policy.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: It's like the men can have multiple wives but the wives can't talk to each other and they can't have husbands themselves.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: And it's like, wow, that's a thing, huh, people, people live that way.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: That's a hmm and it's a sin.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: Otherwise, like it's, it's totally by the book if the man has multiple wives but yet nobody, the wives can't talk.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: Okay, anyways.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: Yes, I'm sure you probably know all about that part.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: You haven't seen reality TV, but you know what I'm talking about.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: Yes, definitely.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: Goodness.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: Okay, so you got into BSM.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: By way of remind me again, you did the bisexual thing, then you did the poly thing and then the bdsm thing I did the bisexual thing, then the swinging thing, then the bdsm thing and then the polyam thing oh, you stopped you.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: You were headed down the poly through swingers and you went, took a right to bdsm and then went back into poly.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: Exactly I needed.
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: It's like I I needed the full understanding of my interests.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: And then I started to realize that like the journey we were on was incomplete and what I had found in swinging needed to be expanded upon.
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: It was kind of like we didn't.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: We started a new series with the BDSM stuff but we needed to go back and finish the first series with polyamory, kind of like we didn't, we started a new series with the BDSM stuff but we needed to go back and finish the first series with polyamory, kind of thing that makes sense.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, everything's a spectrum.
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: So, you know, take a couple of years, go one way and then when you have a, you know got enough information, you go back the other way.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: And then sometimes you go in the middle.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: Or yeah, everything is a spectrum so you can swing back and forth.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: I remember what I wanted to ask you now.
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, swing.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you got to work the kinks out.
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying?
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: Okay, so are you aware of the two sides of labels?
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: Do you know?
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: There's like a thing with the people that are for labels and the people that are like there's too many labels?
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: Yes, do you know the schism.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: I don't know where you're going with this, but I do know that.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: Okay, so what is your opinion of this whole entire thing?
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: Do we need this many labels?
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you've been on FetLife recently.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: recently, they have a lot of labels on there now I think it is an incredible thing to be able to find a label and an identity that you feel like fits you, like I know that, like, asexuality is an umbrella that a lot of people have various opinions on, and because there's so many like sub labels, and I think that it's really special to be able to say that, like no, this is specifically how I feel and who I feel I am, and so, when it comes to labels, I think that it's really kind of freeing in that way.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: At the same time, there is such inconsistency with how people define things that sometimes I do wish there were less labels.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: For example, I know that it is very kind of dependent on who you talk to, of how people define bisexuality and, in relation to bisexuality, pansexuality.
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: For me, my definition of bisexuality is that I am attracted to more than one gender, regardless of other things, which some people would argue might be pansexuality, and I would not disagree with them because I do think that the pansexual, um like identity is similar to the way I define it.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: Um, I know that some people use different words for it, um, but I I think that, like some people define bisexuality as like, oh, being, it's a binary.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: You're only attracted to men and women, which I disagree with.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: Some people are like oh, you're you, like are attracted to people on a spectrum, um, or that.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: There's like preferences, or like all sorts of things.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: It's like do you fall?
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: Like 75% women, 25% men, like there's so many different definitions that when you start to add more and more labels, it's like okay, well, like how are we finding consensus with these things?
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: And at the same time, it's kind of like well, if you find a definition that fits you, why should anyone else care that?
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: All of the above?
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: That's my answer yes, okay.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: So there's like two things, because there's the nerd in me that likes all the new labels and I'm like oh, what's this one mean?
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: Oh, what's that one mean?
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: And it's like very minute, and I'm very much one of those like information uh hoarders that needs to know what all the new labels are and what all the definition is, so I can be like well, actually that means that you're this and this and this.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: So I've had a recent awakening as far as like representation uh, coming out because I am gender fluid, so I do one side or the other, but not so much in between, and it's it has been very confusing for people that I talk to, especially being like a switch and being omnisexual, which is a new one uh, because how you represent yourself, people have like an assumption and then when you talk to them they're like oh yeah, uh-huh, totally, uh, no, I don't get it.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: And it's like okay, well, you, I'm not the man you were looking for.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: It's like those kind of things.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: So I think labels are good to give people an idea, but then I know it's common in society for people to lean on those labels and then it's just kind of like all right, that's your representation and that's your label.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: So you're this like with the whole, true, when people use true dom or true submissive, and it's like, yeah, people say they're, you know, sub or dom, but like ask more questions.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: What does that mean exactly?
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: It's the laziness I don't like.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: It's like, okay, somebody said they represent.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: What does that mean to you exactly?
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: Because, like you said, I don't like.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: It's like, okay, somebody said they represent.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: What does that mean to you exactly?
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: Because, like you said, you don't really have a difference between buy and being panned.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: And it's like, oh, that's interesting, okay, because, yeah, I've heard the differences between the two.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: And it's like, just ask some questions and, yeah, if we can get that going, that would be great.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: We wouldn't have to worry about labels if people just ask more questions.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: That's yeah, that's one of the first things that I do anytime.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: Um, I'm dating someone, or like getting to know someone or vetting someone for a kink like kind of situation is I always ask them clarifying questions.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: So like if I'm talking to someone who, on their fetlife profile or on their field profile, say like oh, I'm a dom, I'm like, okay, well, what does domination look like to you?
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: What does submission look like to you?
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: If I'm dating you, it's like, okay, well, what does?
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: Like you say that you're in a relationship with a nesting partner.
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: What does that mean to you?
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: What is like?
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: What do your other relationships look like?
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: Because you're totally right that like if we don't understand and if we don't clarify for ourselves what other people's meanings are behind these labels, we're going to end up making an assumption later on that may not be beneficial to either of us.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: It may end up hurting people, like you never know what's going to happen simply because you didn't ask why and what, and like those follow-up questions that really help you figure out, like how you connect with a person you know.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: Yep, and I'm a big fan of negotiations, and boy you got to do that like every three months because some new information can come up and you know you like oh, actually I'm this now because of this, by this definition.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: I just did an episode by myself where I ranted on the attractions.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: You know there's six main attractions, oh, so people like to talk about romantic.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: So you have the romantic spectrum and you have the sexuality spectrum, but there's four other ones that people don't realize.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: So there's the aesthetic attraction, there is the emotional attraction, there's the intellectual attraction.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: So that's where, like, sapio and demi come in.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: And then I can't remember the fourth one now because I'm thinking about the other ones.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: So I'll go back to that one, but I talked about it in the episode, so the Capsers know what I'm talking about.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, good for you guys.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: So it's interesting because, especially like the A-spectrum, people like asexuals why would you be in a relationship with people?
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: But it's like there's other attraction styles, so we focus on the sexual and the romantic, but there's actually four other ones that are there as well.
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: And speaking of like, asking people why like, for me, two months ago I didn't know about that, and then doing my research on the asexual episode.
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: It's like oh, I'm actually not very sexual at all, but I'm heavy on the emotional, which is kind of incorrect because it's not about emotions, it's about personality.
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: So if you're attracted to somebody's personality, so it's not sapiosexual, it's like sapio attraction because it's intellectual but can't really say intellect anymore because that's like ableist.
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: So you have to say how somebody thinks, because if somebody's like below, like lower, like has an 80 IQ, it doesn't mean that they're like you, not really attract.
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: It's how they process information.
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: So some of the work, we, we actually need more labels now because there's different attractions.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: So you can be zero, like for me, a romantic asexual, zero on those things.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: But I'm heavy on emotional and sapio.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: I want to know how somebody thinks that I'm attracted to personalities and then sex can happen.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: If you want it, you, you can have it.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: I don't really say no, but that's another thing, uh.
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, it's like we, we have labels, but then we kind of need more because there's more information out there.
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, I'm a big fan of renegotiating and the counselors know that too.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: I want to negotiate everything.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: You should have a negotiation all the time about everything.
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: Well, not all the time, but periodically and about everything.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: I'm going through that right now in a couple of my personal relationships, just because it's like like I've been dating certain people for like period of time, or I've been friends with someone for a certain period of time and it's like we've changed as people and our priorities have changed, and so it's like we just we sit down, we talk about like hey, where are you at, where am I at?
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: Like, where do we align, where do we not align?
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: How do we want to move forward with this?
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: And I think that like it's really interesting hearing that there's six types of attraction, because I've recently been struggling with like some of my own feelings when it comes to certain things.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: Like I know I'm bisexual, I am sexually attracted to men, women and like other people, but like when it comes to romantic attraction, I've been like really kind of questioning my romantic attraction to women and a lot of that has to do with like compulsory, compulsory heterosexuality, um, which I'm like unlearning, um.
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: But there's like so many different facets of getting to know people and like your attraction to them for different reasons that like we need those ways to identify in order to help us navigate.
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: How do we want to relate to people?
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: What kind of connections do we want to have?
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: Because you, like some of my best friends, I would say I have a very deep emotional and like romantic connection to.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: There's no sexual attraction because we're besties, yes, but like there could be, you never know, it's just oh, but like.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: You need those kind of like guiding terms, I think, in order to figure out how people truly connect yes, and I learned a new word for that it's called a squish a what a squish that's when you have a platonic attraction to.
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: It's called a squish A what A squish that's when you have a platonic attraction to somebody.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: It's non-sexual, so you have a crush.
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: When you have a crush on somebody, they came up with a new term.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: It's called squish.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: That sounds like a term from Finding Nemo.
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: Yes, I just thought it was funny.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because it's crush for sexual crush and then like a platonic crush when it's non-sexual, non-romantic.
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: You just have strong feelings for somebody.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: It's called a squish.
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's like I want to cuddle you, but I don't want to sleep with you.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: I will squish you.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: That's cute.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: I like that yes, oh, I remember what.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: The fourth one was intimate.
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: So you have intimate, let's go again, because we're going to do it again Sexual, romantic, intimate, aesthetic, emotional and intellectual.
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: That's the six, the six main ones.
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: So I think it's funny that people talk about the sexual ones so much when it's like that's just one of the six things that somebody hit because I will cuddle you.
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: I'm high on intimate, I love cuddling, but I don't need.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: I don't need the sexual stuff and romance.
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, I've had partners say I'm romantic but I don't know what they're talking about.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: I have no idea what, what that even means.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: But I will talk you, I will have a nice boring conversation with you and forget about everything else and then, like I thought we were doing the sex thing and I was like, oh, that's right, that's a thing I forgot about.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: That I mean, yes, go, yes, exactly, go ahead.
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: This is the whole thing.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: Like this is not the man you were looking for, cause you got the BDSM stuff in there.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: You got a big old sadist.
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: You have a full-on scene.
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: It's like I'm going to bed now and then they're all riled up and it's like I don't know what you want from me.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: Uh, yeah, then I start messing with them about that.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: But yeah, all of man, this is why I like education and research.
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: Because, yeah, just learned about that recently and it's like nobody's talked about this.
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: What are we doing here?
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: I don't know, we're just floating along on a little rock yeah, thousands of meters, what is it?
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: meters per second or something like that through space, trying to figure this whole thing out.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so you talked about your, your, your journey from the queer, then swingers, bsm, and then back to poly, but you didn't say anything about being a writer.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: So how did that start?
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: oof.
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: Okay, so to become a writer you must be a reader, um, and so there was a period of my life when I really really got back into reading.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: It had been a long time since I had really wanted to read and I think a large part of it is that, like school kind of makes you not want to read books, it makes it not fun.
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: And so, like I came back from that, bounced back, got really into reading romance to the point where I was reading a lot of like indie and self-published books and I was being asked to become like what's called an advanced reader so advanced copies are sent to readers before the publication date of a book and like you read, you review.
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: And so I did that for a while.
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: And then I became really close with several authors who were like, oh, do you want to read my works in progress?
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: And I was like, absolutely, and I just like gave feedback and thoughts on the story as a reader.
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: And then eventually I was talking with some of them, like some of my author friends, and they were like, shannon, you have all these ideas, like just write it, like you can do this.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: And I was like, oh, I guess I can do this.
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: And I remember going to dinner with my family and being like, yeah, like I, this was November of 2021.
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: There is like a kind of national effort to get people to write during the month of November and the goal is to write 50,000 words in a month.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: Um, and I was participating in this.
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: And so I went to dinner and I told my family and I was like, yeah, like this month, I'm trying to basically write a book, write 50,000 words in a month, um, and then, like I'd like to publish it.
• 39:12
  Speaker 2: And they were like, well, finally, and I was like, what are you talking about, finally?
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: And they were like you've been like so into this for such a long time and you've always had the creative capacity for this.
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: Like I have a background in theater and art and just like creative storytelling and that's always been my passion, and so, like becoming a writer just has felt really natural for me.
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: And so I published my first book in 2022, on my birthday, and so that was the first book that I published, and now I have five out.
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: I'm working on my sixth and I have a bunch more planned, but it's interesting because, like the first two books that I published are a duet, so like part one, part two, and they are a dark romance.
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: So there is love and like people falling in love, but there's also like a little bit of murder and arson kind of involved, um, which is always like a fun little sprinkle in there, um, but it's also polyamorous, but it was before I knew what the term polyamorous meant.
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: But it's like a central female main character and she has five love interests, um, one of them is a trans man, um, one of them is non-binary and asexual.
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: There's a woman and two men, all like kind of interconnected in their polycule and like some of them have relationships together, some of them are married, and it was was just like I wrote the story that I had in my head and in my heart and then later on I was like, oh, there's a word for this, and so it's been really interesting because, like I think I said it in the last episode when we talked but like my writing journey has really paralleled my personal journey when it comes to like learning about my sexuality, my interests, my kinks and also my place and how I navigate polyamory, and so I write queer, kinky, polyamorous romance for the most part, um, and I love writing about those relationship dynamics and the struggles that come with them, um, and just like the intricacies of people falling in love and also not falling in love, because love isn't always necessary to a relationship.
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: Sometimes it's like you have a different kind of intimacy, um, and so I just think like relationships between people is fascinating, um, I think that's why I spend so much, well, all my time thinking about it now and researching it and writing about it, but, yeah, that's so crazy, and this is your full-time job now writing yes what can you?
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: say what you were doing before?
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: what job was the last, like nine to five job or whatever that you had?
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: I always worked for non-profits before I did this, so I was mostly working in kind of like, like membership, fundraising fields, um, and it was a lot of um, event organizing and um.
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: One of the things that I think is so interesting is my past jobs were very much about crafting a story in order to compel people to feel something that would drive them to donate money.
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: And now I write things that like compel people to feel, things that drive them to buy my things.
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: Also would you say that's almost similar to running a swingers club.
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: Yup.
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: Probably yeah, oh, okay, yeah, yup, probably yeah, oh, okay, yeah, okay, that's, yeah, that's very fascinating.
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I had the same thing too in school where, like re, like it ruined reading for me, so I can't read fiction now.
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: Really.
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I have trouble with it.
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I can.
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: I can listen to it if it's something I read in school because there was a point where I was a part of a science fiction book club.
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: So I'll go back and read, like 1984.
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: I'll listen to that again because that was one of the books we read, so I can listen to the books.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: But, yeah, because I tried to read nation, one of my partners got me nation and it's like, oh, you relate to the main character, maui in that book a lot and I tried to read part of it.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: Like this was recently, because years and years has been pretty much just self-help books, like I'm reading, the body keeps the score.
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: Now as well, listening to it.
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: Great, yes, which is another side note.
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: I realized what I wanted, like my passion is going to be, is that last part of the book with the group therapy sessions that he talks about, the improv part of it.
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: So that's more of the improv I would like to do.
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: If I can get one of those groups going, I'll be like chef's kiss, I'm good now for life.
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: I'm just going to keep doing that.
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: But yeah, man, yeah, fiction is tough.
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: But if I know writers that have books.
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: I would probably read those and get in there, and especially with the I forgot the term now ghost, ghost reading, secondary reading.
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: Oh, sensitivity reading.
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: Why can't I remember sensitivity reading?
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: So yeah, especially when it has to do with people that are very interested in getting the, the, the different things, especially with the BDSM stuff Correct reading.
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: So yeah, especially when it has to do with people that are very interested in getting the, the, the different things, especially with the bsm stuff correct and the like, the non-monogamous, poly and swinger stuff, getting all those correct.
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: I love the fact.
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: That's really what drew me to the smart lovers is everybody wanting to learn more about the, the nuances and the details of all the different stuff and, being very man people asking some good questions.
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for anyone who is not part of the reader world, a sensitivity reader is essentially someone who, when they, when an author writes a book, they are going to do their research and their due diligence, hopefully to make sure that the things in their book are accurate and that they're telling like a story that is not harmful to communities.
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: However, everyone's flawed no one knows all the answers, and so a lot of the times, authors will hire a sensitivity reader who, based on their own research and lived experiences, will go through a book and like point out, like here's things that you did really well when representing this community or this activity.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: Here's like trouble spotting areas where it's like you're not quite getting it right or you could like strengthen it or like tighten it up.
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: And then here's maybe something that, like you wrote that's like really problematic.
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: Um, so like one of the things that I have had, um I've I have a sensitivity reader friend that I'm like really close with and we've had conversations before about specifically like um, primal kinks and how they relate to people of color, um, and so like you just hit two of my buttons right there, you just yeah, and so like people will take their books to a sensitivity reader so that if he is quote unquote the predator in a primal kink situation, and so that's that's kind of yeah, I know your eyes just got real wide and so that's kind of.
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: The role of a sensitivity reader is just to point out like here's, here's where you can do better, here's where you're doing great and here's how you can do better, here's where you're doing great and here's how you represent these things well.
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: One little note we say hunter now because the predator word is primal.
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: Hunter now because of that one TV show where they were catching predators.
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so we say primal hunters now yeah.
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: See, you're an excellent sensitivity reader.
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: That is not something I knew as an author, and now I just learned a new thing and I will change my language.
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, poc and Primal.
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: You know Camsters, yeah, yeah, I've had a few conversations about that.
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you got my oh man, that's another one that.
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you got my ooh man, that's another one of those things.
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: When you just learn about it it's like, ah, that's what it is.
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, if you need more, yeah, yeah, I'm spiraling now because you're like oh, primal, yes, yes, somebody that represents as a POC that dates a lot of non-POC women.
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: That is a big thing.
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: When you're chasing them around in the woods, it's like, depending on who you're with, that looks kind of strange.
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, bigger black man, yeah, that's a type of thing, but there are ways to do it.
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: Where it's, let's just stay away from the face.
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: That's one big thing.
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: We just don't do anything with the facial stuff.
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: I mean, the neck is fine, but it's like the hair is fine, but just no, trauma to the face is a big thing, but there's knees and elbows that happen and you know, yeah, stuff like that.
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: But I have notes, if you want them.
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: I have, yeah, a lot, of, a lot of notes about those different things, um, but yeah, that's.
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: That's one of those sad things now where we had to change the, the language, and that happens a lot just because of normal society.
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: And then, of course, you got people that just key into one little thing and it's like oh, you're a million man and all those big buzzwords that they like to use, and it's okay, predator, this is not what we're talking about.
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: Okay, it's all.
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: Legal consenting adults, yes, adults.
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: Okay, legal adults.
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: So yeah, primal Hunter hunter just got to switch out of that.
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, sad, okay.
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: Um, yes, sensitivity reading.
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: I had another question, but I will go back to that later.
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: I'll probably when I'm doing the editing.
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: I'm like that's what I wanted to ask, but that's the type of thing that happens.
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: Okay, that is a good button.
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: Right there we're at like the 45 minute mark.
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: So, once again, thank you, shannon.
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: This is part two of hopefully many more to come, and we will probably deep dive in more topics.
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: So a little teaser for the campsters there would you like to promote anything?
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: Sure, I am an author.
• 49:54
  Speaker 2: I do write queer, kinky polyamorous romance which I think might interest some of your listeners.
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: So you can find all of my books on Amazon under my pen name, shannon Elliott, and then all of my socials Facebook, instagram, tiktok all that is under author Shannon Elliott, and then all of my socials Facebook, instagram, tiktok all that is under author Shannon Elliott.
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: So you want to follow along with me.
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: I post a lot of really kind of kinky stuff.
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, yeah, and around the kinky campfire.
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: What are we doing with that?
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, and once again I'm going to be pointing down, even though you guys can't see me, but all her information and probably a little bio or something will be in the description below.
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: And this is Around the Kinky Campfire.
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: This is your host, hh, julius or Julius or whatever name that I picked for this episode that I can't.
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: Creepy Nuts I think it was Creepy Nuts, was it Creepy Nuts?
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: I think it was creepy nuts.
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: Was it creepy nuts?
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: Crispy bacon.
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: Creepy nuts.
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was creepy nuts, creepy nuts.
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: Hey, I remember things, but you can just call me Julius and go onto the Instagrams and check out campfire.
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: Kingsters can't fire the K.
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: This is around the king.
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: You can't fire with a cage.
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: Make sure you just can't fire the K.
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: This is around the key.
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: You can't fire with a cage.
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: Make sure you put that K in there because, yeah, you be something else completely.
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: So put that in there and we have new episodes Most Thursdays, most Thursdays, on all the major platforms Spotify, itunes, amazon, all those different kinds of things.
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: And that is all for now.
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: Would you like to say goodbye to the people?
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: Thank you, and that is all for now.
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: Would you like to say goodbye to the people?
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: Shannon, bye, thank you and hello.