Latest / Bomb Life / Strengthening the Bond: Secrets to Lasting Love with Zach Brittle |331

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Strengthening the Bond: Secrets to Lasting Love with Zach Brittle |331 · Bomb Life

0:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Everyone, welcome Zach, brittle to the show Zach.
0:04
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so excited to have you on here.
0:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks.
0:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, how are you doing?
0:07
[SPEAKER_00]: You've seen when you're, uh, you're living out of a suitcase right now.
0:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, totally living out of the suitcase.
0:13
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the story of my life.
0:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're just like doing the best to can.
0:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, adapting, shifting, um, making it all work.
0:21
[SPEAKER_01]: But the show must go on.
0:22
[SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah.
0:24
[SPEAKER_01]: here we are hotel room at all and phone hotel room everything we have talked a lot about relationships on this podcast we've had several conversations and it always fascinates me because every time we have a new guest and whether we're talking about sex, marriage, dating, divorce, how to make it work, how do you know when it's over, how do you please your partner anything?
0:47
[SPEAKER_01]: there are always emails and DMs that come in and people are like, it was that message.
0:53
[SPEAKER_01]: That one spoke to me.
0:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, that's crazy because we've talked about this before.
0:56
[SPEAKER_01]: So we never know what's going to come out of your mouth.
0:59
[SPEAKER_01]: That's going to hit someone like a snack in the head and they're going to be like,
1:03
[SPEAKER_01]: White Bob, White Bob.
1:04
[SPEAKER_01]: So I am always telling people like you never know what episode's going to be life changing for you.
1:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, okay.
1:10
[SPEAKER_01]: So I got to get all your titles right.
1:12
[SPEAKER_01]: So you've been counseling couples for almost 20 years.
1:14
[SPEAKER_01]: You're a licensed mental health counselor, a certified Gatman therapist and a relational life therapist.
1:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And you've been married for what was it 28 years?
1:24
[SPEAKER_00]: we have 29 this summer and the line in my bio that's gotten me more business than any other line in my bio is that we're back and I've been happily married for 26 out of 29 years so most of what I know about how relationships work I've learned on the job I've learned with within through my relationship with her and then also my two daughters who are 19 and 23 they I call them they're they're adulting or they're trying to
1:53
[SPEAKER_00]: I've got a lot of training, and I've got a lot of tools, and I've got a lot of experience, but most of what I have is practice.
2:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I can fill you on that.
2:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I feel like on my journey of what I do with health and relationships and coaching and everything, I have learned to become the coach that I own because of my own experience.
2:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
2:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And what I have been through.
2:17
[SPEAKER_01]: So I fill you on that.
2:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's what makes the best therapist.
2:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's what makes the best coaches.
2:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Those that have that life experience
2:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, sure.
2:30
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'm just a fellow traveler, right?
2:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I don't put on a costume and go to my therapy office.
2:34
[SPEAKER_00]: I, um, I wear, you know, literally I just wear like my regular clothes all the time.
2:39
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's, I mean, some people put on a business suit, some people put on a uniform, and they transform into the thing that they do, and then they try and they clock out of that thing.
2:45
[SPEAKER_00]: And I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I,
2:49
[SPEAKER_00]: I do try to leave my work at work, but I'm never clocking out of the need to practice relationship skills in a meaningful way.
2:58
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's that's the way I think about it.
3:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, as I'm sitting here in my gym close.
3:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
3:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure if I bought gas.
3:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, yeah, I'm going to gym after this.
3:06
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm not quite as accomplished.
3:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I think as you, or I don't really even know what I'm doing.
3:12
[SPEAKER_00]: But I do have that.
3:13
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going, though.
3:14
[SPEAKER_01]: You're doing it.
3:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I do.
3:16
[SPEAKER_01]: You're doing it.
3:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I love it.
3:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so I have to know like why is this what you do?
3:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Why?
3:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Why do you come?
3:24
[SPEAKER_01]: So why do you help with relationships?
3:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm always curious of how people got on the started on their journey with what they're good at.
3:34
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a really good teacher.
3:36
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a really good friend.
3:37
[SPEAKER_00]: And I have this aptitude for connecting dots that I don't know, just kind of makes sense to me.
3:46
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I went to college.
3:48
[SPEAKER_00]: I went to undergrad to become a teacher.
3:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And I read out a college I was a teacher right away.
3:53
[SPEAKER_00]: I went into one of these.
3:55
[SPEAKER_00]: like I went into one of these environments where I was kind of the savior I was going to co be like the teacher who came in and rescued the entire system from being broken and I I knew a lot about how to like read and write I was an English teacher but I didn't I found out pretty quickly I didn't know how to talk to people or or manage relationships and so I went back to school to get a degree in counseling which I thought I was going to use to do to go back into classroom.
4:20
[SPEAKER_00]: turned out I had an aptitude for therapy.
4:22
[SPEAKER_00]: I was good at it and I was asked by my program to stick around and just some graduate assistant work which I did and I hated.
4:28
[SPEAKER_00]: I was doing work one-on-one with students and and then I and then one of my students brought his wife in and as soon as he brought his wife in I immediately was like, oh!
4:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I like this.
4:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I can do this.
4:42
[SPEAKER_00]: This was interesting.
4:43
[SPEAKER_00]: And I wasn't sure exactly why, but something energetically woke up at me at 20 years later, I feel really, really grateful.
4:51
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm an exactly the right job for me.
4:53
[SPEAKER_00]: I am good at what I do.
4:55
[SPEAKER_00]: And I also think that like, I probably would have been divorced a couple times over if I,
5:02
[SPEAKER_00]: weren't in this space like I I'm vulnerable to a lot of relational breakdowns because of my story and because of my just wiring that if I weren't attentive to it, I could easily have fallen prey to a lot of what I see my clients falling prey to so yeah you know part of why I stay in this job is because I feel like if I don't I'm gonna I don't know
5:25
[SPEAKER_00]: maybe fall off the wagon is the right turn.
5:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure if that's exactly right, but I like what I do.
5:30
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm never bored.
5:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like a couple therapy is a different thing than individual therapy.
5:36
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like they're just different disciplines and I don't really, I don't really like to say this, but I don't really trust people who are like, I do individuals and couples and adolescents and families and I do depression and I do eating disorders.
5:48
[SPEAKER_00]: I think people need to do a thing.
5:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and this is the thing that I do.
5:52
[SPEAKER_00]: I do couples therapy, and I don't do individual therapy.
5:55
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not very good at it.
5:56
[SPEAKER_00]: I barely can handle it as a client.
5:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been in the same living therapy for seven years with my therapist, who I love, but I can't do what she does.
6:03
[SPEAKER_00]: So I just wake up every day, and I try to put on my clothes and go to work and then come home and stay in the practice, basically.
6:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I love that you admit that though, that you're like,
6:17
[SPEAKER_01]: This is my wheelhouse.
6:19
[SPEAKER_01]: This is my lane.
6:20
[SPEAKER_01]: That is my lane.
6:21
[SPEAKER_00]: The nerve things I can't do for sure.
6:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And I always outsource them like I don't, I can't do that.
6:26
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, and I think it, you know, to your expertise, you know, that there are all kinds of trainers, like their trainers all over the place.
6:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And the person who might be a really great CrossFit trainer might be a terrible yoga teacher.
6:39
[SPEAKER_00]: And a terrible yoga teacher or a great yoga teacher might not have anything to know about how to do whatever else.
6:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, this is not my language, but I think you can be good at at caring about values and health, for example, and still be specialized in a way that you excellent in a different area.
6:58
[SPEAKER_00]: So
6:58
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I tell people all the time like because you'll see people that teach classes and they might be really good at teaching classes and then they come out and they train on the floor and train one on one and I'm like just because you can teach a group full of people it does not mean that you are good at personal training and that doesn't mean that you don't you're doing or vice versa just because you're a trainer it doesn't mean you can go into a group and you know how to watch 10 people form technique tempo you know it my gym has to be crazy
7:25
[SPEAKER_00]: classes and personal training and you can definitely tell that there are trainers who are dialing in like there's there's folks that are really good on one side of the room and not so good on the other side of the room and they I'm really grateful for the particular gym that I'm at because they're wise to that they get it and they yeah people are playing to their strengths which is really cool.
7:44
[SPEAKER_01]: No I love that you're admitting that and talking about that and I hope people are listening and it wakes them up to like yeah
7:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, this is what my therapist does.
7:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe I should ask them a question about this or Yeah, I felt something was off and I don't feel Like, you know, my cup is getting full by what I need in there.
8:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe this is something to do with it.
8:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I just hope it brings awareness.
8:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
8:07
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, to do to that.
8:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you think people should be in?
8:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Couple of therapy if they're married?
8:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, here's what I say all the time.
8:18
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think therapy works.
8:19
[SPEAKER_00]: I think couples work, or they don't.
8:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And sometimes therapy is the tool that they use to do that work.
8:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes it's a small group at their church.
8:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes it's a 12-step program.
8:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes it's a book that they found or a podcast that they listen to.
8:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes it's just their relationship with their neighbors.
8:35
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think
8:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Therapy is a very specific kind of tool that is time consuming and expensive, you know, so if you have the resources to do it, then it, you know, I mean, I was about to say can't hurt, you can hurt, you know, you want to be with a competent therapist.
8:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the other thing about therapy, a couple therapy is that, you know, I say about my office all the time.
8:56
[SPEAKER_00]: It's different based on who's in the room.
8:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes my office is a courtroom, sometimes it's a classroom, sometimes it's a yoga studio, sometimes it's a playground, sometimes it's a
9:05
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it just depends on what the couple needs and I think the reason I'm good at my job is because I don't think about couples there to be in a very narrow way I think about it in an expansive way and I really keen to understand what the client wants and then see if we can help them get it and if they can get it for free from a podcast I'll say get it for free from a podcast.
9:27
[SPEAKER_00]: don't waste your time and money in here.
9:29
[SPEAKER_00]: But at the same time, if they come in, people say, how long does it take?
9:33
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't like, I love using gym metaphor, so I'm going to beat it to death.
9:36
[SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, it's like you're moving into a gym and having somebody and saying to the trainer, how long until I can bench press my bodyweight.
9:42
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know,
9:43
[SPEAKER_00]: that the answer is dependent on how close are you?
9:46
[SPEAKER_00]: How hard are you going to work outside the gym?
9:47
[SPEAKER_00]: What's your diet exactly?
9:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you have a congenital arthritis that's going to make that impossible?
9:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, we need to figure that out first before we can actually decide whether or not this is the right venue for support.
10:01
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think it's, I mean, the thing I say about my clients that I love and I respect is the only thing my clients have in common is that they're asking for help.
10:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's, I find it interesting that you hear the same things as like I hear of like, well, how long is it's going to take to, you know, to heal from or like there was an affair or, you know, whatever they're dealing with and it's true.
10:27
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like how willing are you to put in the work like and are you both getting to do it?
10:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I had this question for you later, but I feel like it's important to bring up now just because we're on this like, yeah.
10:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I see this all the time, and I work individual people.
10:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes I work with the husband, sometimes I work with the wife, and they're on this journey, right?
10:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And my job with them is that person, their journey, their health, their wellness, and then I have to take the environment into consideration.
10:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, like, someone's still bringing home beer and pizza and are they supporting a like I have to consider the environment and everything and what I see happening all the time is this person is on their grind they're going they're they're changing you know they're reading the books they're doing the work they're physically moving their body, which changes all the chemicals in their brain they're feeling better they're sleeping great they have a great sex drive now and their partner.
11:27
[SPEAKER_01]: is not doing the same thing.
11:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And this person is like, hey, join me or like, this is what I'm doing.
11:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're sharing.
11:33
[SPEAKER_01]: They want them to, but this person is just like, it's not for me, or they, what I keep hearing is they say they will.
11:41
[SPEAKER_01]: They, oh, yeah, you know, yeah, that's a great idea.
11:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, maybe I will start or whatever.
11:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's starting to eat that person alive.
11:50
[SPEAKER_00]: of life first person.
11:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, the person doing the work because the more they get into shape, the more they're bettering themselves.
11:59
[SPEAKER_01]: They're they're watching their self talk.
12:01
[SPEAKER_01]: They're watching their energy.
12:03
[SPEAKER_01]: They're aware that you know and just you know alone just the benefit of sleep.
12:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And the chemicals and endorphins that you get is going to change a person.
12:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're becoming more and more aware of what the other person is not doing.
12:18
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, what would you suggest or recommend to that person?
12:22
[SPEAKER_01]: That's like, I love them.
12:25
[SPEAKER_01]: But I am so aware of their depression now and I'm saying that they will and then they don't, and they're like, that's not attractive.
12:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And like, but I don't want to hold my journey
12:36
[SPEAKER_01]: and shrink because they're not and it's just this battle that I am seeing more and more show up.
12:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And I see it with men getting frustrated with the woman and I see it with the women and they're getting frustrated with the man in their life.
12:49
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to stop getting out.
12:52
[SPEAKER_00]: I have an answer that might be controversial.
12:54
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not really, please.
12:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you have it to me.
12:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I love the controversial.
12:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you leave him behind.
13:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I know, I know, I know, yeah, I think you just, I think you say, okay.
13:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'm going to keep, I'm going to continue to do the thing that's good and right for me.
13:09
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm going to continue to live into my health and my wellness and my, and if you can come, I would love that.
13:14
[SPEAKER_00]: I would love for you to come.
13:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Please come.
13:16
[SPEAKER_00]: I want, I will make space for you.
13:18
[SPEAKER_00]: I will, you, you were welcome anytime to be here, but I'm not coming over there.
13:22
[SPEAKER_00]: not doing anything anymore.
13:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And that is hard for sometimes people to hear.
13:26
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think if you can do it in a loving and kind and invitation away, that's best.
13:32
[SPEAKER_00]: But you know, you can't I think healthy relationships in general.
13:38
[SPEAKER_00]: require two functional adults.
13:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I have to have two adults at the table and two people who are investing in their own health and wellness.
13:45
[SPEAKER_00]: And if one of them's doing it, the other one's not, you know, one of my mentors, and it's the relational life therapy guy's name is Terry Reo, if you don't know his name, he'll talk about how, like, if you show up at your best and your partner shows up at your best, that's a great day for you, it's a great day for them, and it's a great day for the relationship.
14:02
[SPEAKER_00]: If you show up at your worst and they show up at their worst, it's a bad day for you, it's a bad day for them, it's a bad day for the relationship.
14:09
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you show up with your best and they don't show up at their best, it's a good day for you, it's a bad day for them, and it's an okay day for the relationship.
14:16
[SPEAKER_00]: And sometimes, okay is the best you're gonna get, which is unfortunate, but it is the math, it is the reality, you have to kind of grapple with reality.
14:27
[SPEAKER_00]: And if okay is not enough for you,
14:30
[SPEAKER_00]: either you require or, you know, solicit the chains that you need or you leave.
14:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to, I'm going to be one of my clients.
14:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
14:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
14:43
[SPEAKER_00]: That's fine.
14:43
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll do it.
14:44
[SPEAKER_01]: But Zach, I don't want to end my marriage though.
14:47
[SPEAKER_01]: I can, I can just hear like 10 people right now.
14:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
14:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
14:51
[SPEAKER_01]: But I love them.
14:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't want to be divorced.
14:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And we have kids.
14:54
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm still getting mad or I have, you know, emotions or I still may have, but I'm afraid, what, what happens when I get to the point where I don't care anymore?
15:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I don't want to be divorced.
15:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And I love him.
15:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And we've together 15 years.
15:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
15:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say then lower
15:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you can't have everything you want.
15:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this is the reality of it.
15:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what do you really want?
15:16
[SPEAKER_00]: If you want to stay married, that's easy.
15:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Just don't get divorced, you know?
15:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, but if you want to stay married in a way that helps you live your best life, then you need to figure out what living your best life is, and then you need to invite your partner to join you.
15:30
[SPEAKER_00]: And if they're not going to join you, then you have new decisions to make.
15:33
[SPEAKER_00]: This is my include settling it might include leaving.
15:36
[SPEAKER_00]: It might include, you know, it might include having an affair.
15:38
[SPEAKER_00]: It might include, you know, just committing to the gym.
15:41
[SPEAKER_00]: It might include joining a book club.
15:43
[SPEAKER_00]: It might include traveling by yourself.
15:45
[SPEAKER_00]: It might include, you know, who knows?
15:47
[SPEAKER_00]: But like, this is the math.
15:49
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, if you're getting, if there's enough in the relationship to make it work for you, then you have to just kind of accept that they're going to also be tradeoffs.
16:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and that the physical part too is really hard because this person is, you know, they're, they're losing weight.
16:08
[SPEAKER_01]: They're physically looking good.
16:10
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I didn't women that are like developing this muscle that they haven't seen since they were 20, you know, and the big food bus going and they're like,
16:21
[SPEAKER_01]: They just feel amazing and they can like bang out 10 pushups and some of them are like getting to the level of pull ups and they're just literally physically getting stronger than their husband and then they're like, this is becoming a problem.
16:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know, I think this is, um, there's lots of cultural and, like, historical realities that are in play here.
16:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, but the, but the reality is that marriages and families are systems, and systems orient around their patterns.
16:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and they, those patterns become consistent, they become ingrained, they become predictable, they work.
16:57
[SPEAKER_00]: And then somebody changes the pattern, somebody goes, oh, I'm going to change the system.
17:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Then the system freaks out a little bit.
17:04
[SPEAKER_00]: If you think about a mobile that's floating over top of a baby's crib or something and all these pieces are moving and if you grab one and you just hold it, you stop it.
17:12
[SPEAKER_00]: The other pieces freak out, they all gonna go berserk for a little while until they find their equilibrium.
17:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes when a woman or a man gets decides, I'm going to change the system, I'm going to get healthy, I'm going to stop moving in this pattern.
17:27
[SPEAKER_00]: It does create
17:32
[SPEAKER_00]: if the person stays true to their change, you know, if they stay true that not participating, if they they compromise or they back down, which is what a lot of times happens.
17:41
[SPEAKER_00]: You've had, you've seen many people start the process and then bail.
17:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
17:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Because the system didn't accommodate and they went back to the old system, you know, but if you really interesting changing the system, you gotta stay on the path and then hope.
17:53
[SPEAKER_00]: that the rest of your set, the rest of the system conforms.
17:58
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that that's not strictly hope, right?
18:00
[SPEAKER_00]: You can you can encourage and solicit and hope, and I hope, I don't want to use that word again, but you can invite them to participate, but if they're not going to accept it, you know, it's not too much you can do about it, because I mean, you can't force somebody to do push-ups.
18:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
18:18
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
18:19
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I can relate to this because I was married for 17 years.
18:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Everyone on the show knows that I'm bringing it up.
18:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And I could see the changes happening.
18:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I've been divorced now for six years, I think.
18:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was,
18:34
[SPEAKER_01]: just growing and changing so much before at that point.
18:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I started my own therapy, you know, I was really diving into like childhood issues that were like showing up now and still creating problems and what I, and I was just, I had this growth expansion and that's when I really started to like train hard and on purpose, you know, in lifting and just feeling better.
18:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I was done having babies and I'm like,
19:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I get back to me.
19:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I got to figure out who I am and I, I disrupted the system.
19:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And I would be like, let's, let's go to couples therapy.
19:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's start like a journal, which I want to know you wrote like a marriage.
19:12
[SPEAKER_01]: What was it called?
19:13
[SPEAKER_01]: The happy marriage therapy journal.
19:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I want to know about that.
19:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, let's start a journal and like, you know, share them in exchange and things like that.
19:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And
19:25
[SPEAKER_01]: it was just like dragging this horse to the water and then like drink, just drink down it.
19:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'd got to a point where I realized like nothing is ever going to change.
19:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And I got to that point.
19:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And it wasn't with health and fitness.
19:40
[SPEAKER_01]: He was very in shape and stuff.
19:41
[SPEAKER_01]: It was like the mindset and other things.
19:44
[SPEAKER_01]: So I can relate to what you're saying.
19:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And I had to come to the realization like I am going and I'm not stopping.
19:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm positive and I see things
19:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, never he will never get to the level on that or be willing to and then lips the death.
20:00
[SPEAKER_01]: It was the math and I was like, but am I sure like am I fucking this up like am I making the biggest mistake of my life for me and my children?
20:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And now I can honestly say looking back like that was the best choice of my life.
20:12
[SPEAKER_01]: He got married very quickly after I'm I'm not remarried.
20:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And
20:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I see and I hear is the same person.
20:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's fine, that works for him.
20:25
[SPEAKER_01]: That works for their new marriage and stuff.
20:27
[SPEAKER_01]: But I was like, wow, I really have seen that I did make the right choice.
20:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, I mean, that happens.
20:33
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think the other thing we need to be like really like transparent about is that, you know, we're talking perhaps about fitness.
20:39
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's fine.
20:40
[SPEAKER_00]: That's good.
20:41
[SPEAKER_00]: People should be physically fit.
20:43
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's not the,
20:44
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not the variable in a relationship, right?
20:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the partner may be on the other side of the equation going.
20:50
[SPEAKER_00]: All she ever does is go to the gym and she's neglected to to to to to to She's did to to to to to to and here I am trying to like have intellectual Conversation and here I am trying to be, you know, spiritually relevant or whatever It is like I don't want to sit here and say,
21:03
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's all about getting your shit together and moving it.
21:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, people do have value different things for different reasons in different ways.
21:10
[SPEAKER_00]: And that conversation needs to be available and stewarded by two functional adults.
21:16
[SPEAKER_00]: And if they come to the equation and go, yeah, it seems like we've this particular version of our marriage is run its course.
21:22
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we're back and I, we've done that three times and each time we've chosen to re-up, you know, kind of renegotiate terms and re-new don't regret that, but we're different, you know, we've been married, we've been married, this is our fourth marriage that we're in right now.
21:37
[SPEAKER_00]: This just happens to be to each other, you know.
21:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Interesting.
21:42
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a really interesting way of thinking about that.
21:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Someone once told me, like, you know what?
21:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I think everyone should have to renew their marriage certificate or license or whatever it's called every five years or ten years.
21:55
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, yeah, for me, it's three.
21:58
[SPEAKER_00]: If I give hyper-practical advice, particularly to people who are thinking about getting married, like hyper-practical literally, this is the one thing I tell couples.
22:05
[SPEAKER_00]: I go, I think you should get it.
22:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Find a marriage therapist or find a couple of
22:09
[SPEAKER_00]: The same way you should have a financial advisor in a dentist and an an an an an automatic and you should commit to, you know, about six weeks if there'd be every three years and just as a way of Staying the course because people do change.
22:27
[SPEAKER_00]: about every three years but every three years we kind of sit down and consciously wrong.
22:31
[SPEAKER_00]: This is anthropology and psychology.
22:33
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not I'm not making this up, but right.
22:35
[SPEAKER_00]: You do, but every three years we hit this like, I wonder if this is what I'm still doing, you know?
22:40
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you think about it, people know their head when I say this, you know, you meet somebody in about three years later, you get married, and about three years later you have a baby, and about three years later you have another baby.
22:51
[SPEAKER_00]: And about 18 years later you're baby's leaf, and a B&L, like there is this sort of relatively predictable cycle that if you steward it well, you, you're going to stay ahead of the curve.
23:02
[SPEAKER_00]: If you don't steward it well, you're going to wake up one day and go, who is this person that I'm sleeping next to?
23:07
[SPEAKER_00]: And now are we just roommates?
23:09
[SPEAKER_00]: How did that happen?
23:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it happened because you didn't, you know, put your flag in the ground every once in while and say, are we doing, are we still on track, we're still doing the thing.
23:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
23:17
[SPEAKER_00]: We're still good.
23:18
[SPEAKER_00]: We want to shift.
23:19
[SPEAKER_00]: We want to make physical fitness a priority over the next three years.
23:22
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, what we're going to do now that our baby is no longer on suicide watch, trying to throw themselves down staircase, it's like, are we going to?
23:29
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, actually live our life, we're going to hire babysitter now, you know, like people when they do that, then things pile up and they atrophy and that's, you know, you don't, again, fitness, right, you don't use your muscles, they die.
23:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Why do you think people don't talk about this?
23:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, they don't know how.
23:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Where was the person?
23:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And nothing against religion or anything, but I was Catholic.
23:51
[SPEAKER_01]: They brought up very Catholic.
23:53
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was to get married in the Catholic church by a priest, by a man that was never married or in a relationship with a woman.
24:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And guess who gave us our counseling?
24:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that guy.
24:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we did have to go to like these classes, and we met with like an older couple.
24:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Precane, all right, it was called Precane.
24:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I'll never forget the couple.
24:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And my husband at the time was such a dick to them, and that should have been a right flag.
24:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
24:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
24:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was just like, what is happening here?
24:27
[SPEAKER_01]: But no one guided me.
24:29
[SPEAKER_01]: The best thing that happened, I think was my mom.
24:32
[SPEAKER_01]: God bless her.
24:33
[SPEAKER_01]: And she was my parents relationship was no example at all, but she got me this book and it was like,
24:40
[SPEAKER_01]: the top 25 questions to re-ask your partner before you become a guide or something.
24:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And I only got through maybe the first chapter and then he wouldn't participate anymore.
24:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, ride flag.
24:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I know.
24:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I'm just like hearing you talk it.
25:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like no one tells us this.
25:02
[SPEAKER_01]: No one tells us about the the three years and no one certainly said get a therapist, but get into that like do the work, you know, like stay on course.
25:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Why, Zach?
25:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's such a thing because patriarchy's real.
25:19
[SPEAKER_00]: And because, you know, the Catholic Church and every other system in the world is based on power and strength and winning and losing.
25:25
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, it's not based on being relationally relevant, you know, or relationally connected.
25:30
[SPEAKER_00]: And...
25:31
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, when we are invited into relationships, we accept a general like kind of pattern of rules that seem to make sense because they've made sense for hundreds of years or thousands of years.
25:43
[SPEAKER_00]: And we don't, nobody's challenging those.
25:45
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that did that change.
25:46
[SPEAKER_00]: That started to change in the 70s when women's liberation happened and they started to kind of go, hey, I think I want more out of life, you know.
25:53
[SPEAKER_00]: And but they were in relation to with men who were raised by these other guys who had never had a conversation, you know, I mean, so it's changing I think it's changing particularly because women are not
26:04
[SPEAKER_00]: interested in settling anymore for the for the system.
26:07
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I've got two daughters who are offended by me because I raised them to be emotionally intelligent and none of their 19 to 23-year-old men in their lives have any capacity for actual conversation and so they're mad at me but I'm like trust me, you're you know, you're you're better off.
26:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, you know, because you're not going to end up in the situation where they just settle
26:29
[SPEAKER_00]: for the red flags early on.
26:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, my kids would both reject the stories that you just told me.
26:35
[SPEAKER_00]: They would be like, same, nope.
26:37
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, saves changing.
26:38
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's hope.
26:40
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, but you know, we've been we've been under the weight of these sort of systems forever and I'm having to repent like I'm repenting of that like I have to acknowledge that I participated in that for the longest time, it's probably when I'm here to fall apart on nearly fall apart a few times, you know, so I don't know, I think I think we just don't have any practice.
27:03
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
27:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
27:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I got to say, like, I love that your marriage is falling apart because thanks.
27:10
[SPEAKER_01]: You are one that I would go to and be like, you know, it's like he's been there.
27:15
[SPEAKER_01]: He understands what it's like and has gotten himself out.
27:19
[SPEAKER_01]: But I,
27:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I could out this for my wife's more impressive like she's actually more like the fact that she's married to a relationship expert that she also has seen flail relationally, you know, she's she's very keen to appreciate the kind of the work that is involved, you know, I mean like, yeah, I'm I'm very fortunate in that way.
27:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I got it.
27:46
[SPEAKER_01]: I did kind of go back
27:50
[SPEAKER_01]: like your daughters and how where they are emotionally and emotional intelligence and how important that is.
27:56
[SPEAKER_01]: That is one thing like when my life imploded, my girls had to watch me fall apart and then rebuild and learn.
28:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I've dated a couple of men since then.
28:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And they have watched me fall apart from that and learn like that is acceptable.
28:15
[SPEAKER_01]: That is not acceptable.
28:20
[SPEAKER_01]: but I do know now that they will never accept the shit that I have accepted and had to learn from.
28:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I put up a real um the other day and I'm in a bathing suit just standing there cooking like it might be so no I thought if you make it on my own you can do your own thing the only thing you need for a man is how the way you treat you yeah.
28:41
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the one.
28:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Pressure.
28:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
28:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
28:43
[SPEAKER_00]: It's true.
28:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Everyone, it always did you read any of the comments.
28:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you get in there and read some of the comments?
28:50
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't have time for that.
28:51
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I literally do not have time for social media.
28:54
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't even do my own, but I was like trying to figure out who you were and who I was talking to.
28:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
28:58
[SPEAKER_01]: So who is this check?
28:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I was into it.
29:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I put up in a bathing suit because one, it will grab more attention.
29:05
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just the way social media works and stuff, and I'm like, I want this message to be heard and to it triggered so many people not women, but just men and they took it as like we don't need men.
29:20
[SPEAKER_01]: You're on a social media platform that was designed by men and you're paid by men and I'm like no one said we don't men.
29:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I actually love men.
29:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I am not a man hate or at all.
29:33
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, Jay did even though I could have, would be, I love that.
29:36
[SPEAKER_00]: I, I want the guy you want to date is the guy who goes, that's, you know what, you're exactly right.
29:41
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
29:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
29:43
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a good guy.
29:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
29:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
29:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for raising the bar for me.
29:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's the guy you want to date.
29:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
29:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And they were just so triggered by that.
29:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, you're missing the point.
29:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that like, if we are emotionally aware, and we make our money, and we can do all that, like.
29:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't need you, honey.
30:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Now it's just based on how you treat me, which means how you communicate with me.
30:06
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're there for me, can you hold space for me?
30:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Ooh, does that piss you off?
30:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, we're so good at missing the point.
30:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's, but it's because we've been trained to believe that power and strength are the thing.
30:18
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the thing that, and you know, it's hard to argue with that right now, because we live in a world right now that has chosen to elevate power and strength over integrity and dignity and truth and respect.
30:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Like we just, so it's hard to look around and make the argument, but you know it in your body,
30:38
[SPEAKER_00]: You do.
30:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, your body will always, always tell you.
30:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
30:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, can I ask you about the gothic and theory?
30:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And what that exactly is, because I know there's a lot of people that are like, I've heard of that, but I know clue what that is, what makes it different.
30:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know, what I always say about the Gottman method is that it's a method.
31:00
[SPEAKER_01]: That was the right.
31:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
31:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
31:02
[SPEAKER_00]: It's it's it's basically relationship 101.
31:04
[SPEAKER_00]: So John Gottman is he's kind of the world's most famous and respected couples researcher.
31:13
[SPEAKER_00]: He was not a guy with an opinion.
31:14
[SPEAKER_00]: He didn't seek out to like
31:16
[SPEAKER_00]: write a book on his theory.
31:17
[SPEAKER_00]: He wanted to figure out what made relationships work and what made him breakdown.
31:21
[SPEAKER_00]: So he did all this research.
31:23
[SPEAKER_00]: He did longitudinal research about 40 years worth where he tracked couples over time.
31:28
[SPEAKER_00]: And he was able to observe what did the couples who stayed together have in common and what did the couples who were breaking up had in common.
31:33
[SPEAKER_00]: And basically kind of revealed that the couples who were divorcing and who were miserable, they did these things and couples who stayed together, they did these other things.
31:43
[SPEAKER_00]: And
31:44
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you ought to take that in college.
31:45
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it ought to be like a, like a, like a psychology kind of required.
31:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Seriously, of course, because it speaks to the value of emotional intelligence.
31:54
[SPEAKER_00]: It speaks to the value of personal responsibility.
31:58
[SPEAKER_00]: He wrote a book called Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work, which is a fine book.
32:02
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not a very good read.
32:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Like he's not an author.
32:04
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a scientist, but he, but the, the contents valuable.
32:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you ought to have it as a resource, but it basically says,
32:13
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, couples that say together, there are seven principles.
32:17
[SPEAKER_00]: They're in three buckets just to make it really simple.
32:21
[SPEAKER_00]: The first one is the quality of the friendship.
32:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Like how strong is your day-to-day fundamental regard and respect for one other?
32:28
[SPEAKER_00]: And you can learn to build that up.
32:30
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a thing that you can build.
32:32
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think if you're checking in every three years, how's our friendship?
32:34
[SPEAKER_00]: How are we doing?
32:35
[SPEAKER_00]: How are we doing in this space?
32:36
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, that's the value of that kind of tracking.
32:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Because early on, it's really easy to be friends.
32:41
[SPEAKER_00]: you're interesting in your new and we have all the synergy to stay up late and sex is amazing and but like like early it comes really easy but you know you get into the grind of having jobs and kids and mortgages and your friendship can atrophy you know so the the first one is really about the quality of friendship the second bucket
33:01
[SPEAKER_00]: is around how you manage different or how you manage conflict.
33:06
[SPEAKER_00]: And there are some principles, specific principles about that, that help reframe your relationship to conflict.
33:14
[SPEAKER_00]: One of the biggest pieces of the research is this idea that about two-thirds of any issues that a couple has are perpetual.
33:21
[SPEAKER_00]: They're never going to go away.
33:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's your nature, you're an extrovert, you're a messy, you're a need, you're a spending, you're a sever.
33:27
[SPEAKER_00]: That's never going to change.
33:30
[SPEAKER_00]: people get into a lot of trouble because they try to solve unsolvable problems.
33:33
[SPEAKER_00]: And so there's just a different approach, which is to create empathy and compassion and temporary compromise, which you need to be an adult to learn how to do, right?
33:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's a, that's the, that's why I go back to it takes two functional adults.
33:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and the third bucket is really around do we have a sense of alignment around mission vision values?
33:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Are we, are we do we want, are we targeting at the same thing?
33:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Do we are we chasing goals and dreams together?
34:00
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, the idea of how does a relationship work at its base level is do we have a strong friendship?
34:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Can we manage conflict and are we aligned to the same thing, you know?
34:11
[SPEAKER_00]: And those are all skills that you can build.
34:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm also certified in what's called relational life therapy.
34:18
[SPEAKER_00]: I've already mentioned that in Terry Real's name.
34:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I think relational life therapy is more like 501.
34:22
[SPEAKER_00]: If Gottman is relationship 101, RLT is more like relationship 501.
34:27
[SPEAKER_00]: And what Terry likes to say is that other methodologies will give you tools, and then we want to work with the part of you that doesn't use tools.
34:34
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's a thing that the Gottman method said which is, do this, do this stuff.
34:40
[SPEAKER_01]: OK.
34:41
[SPEAKER_00]: And then there's a reality which is sometimes you can't do that stuff because you've got childhood trauma or you've got you've got a trust breach or you've got you've got ADHD or you've got untreated alcoholism or like there's a there's lots of reasons why you can't do the thing and so it's not good enough to say go do the thing if you do the thing you'll be fine you have to also address the part of the person that
35:05
[SPEAKER_00]: doesn't know how to do the thing, their parents never taught them how to do the thing.
35:08
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't have any models for the thing.
35:11
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't have any, they're not medicated properly for their age to eat.
35:14
[SPEAKER_00]: They haven't done the work of grappling with their relationship without call, you know, like so it's a little bit of a like a graduate level approach to couples work, but but I think everybody should be exposed to and familiar with basic principles of being in a, you know, sound
35:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
35:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
35:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And that can be started early on.
35:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I feel like again, like it should be taught in college.
35:42
[SPEAKER_01]: It really should.
35:43
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, if not in high school and opening people or it should be taught to your children, you know, like you should.
35:50
[SPEAKER_00]: me and Rebecca because of what we've weathered and what we've had to learn, we have been pushing down this idea of, you know, exactly exactly what you said in your bathing suit, like what matters is how you are treated by this guy, you know, and these people.
36:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Even in your even in your platonic friendships, same-sex platonic friendships, like what matters is whether or not you have the ability to navigate, you know, difference in a responsible and respectful way.
36:14
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's always easier if your friendship is stronger, you know, right?
36:18
[SPEAKER_00]: And then don't join your life with somebody who doesn't share your values, you know, which is why about every three years, you ought to be checking in and saying, hey, are we still interested in, right, venture or wealth building or health or, you know, whatever, like if we're not, then we've got to pay attention to that and course correct.
36:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
36:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
36:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And kind of like, because what if you get to that point and that three-year check-in and you're like, no, we don't like, and he's going, no, I don't agree with what you're saying.
36:46
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is not the right value.
36:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, then you're not, then you have it been married for 35 years or 25 years or 15 years.
36:51
[SPEAKER_00]: And trying to figure out why there's too much sunk cost in this equation.
36:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
36:55
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, like, people don't get divorced because they're like, oh, now we're just going to wait till our kids
37:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Or, you know, be checking in regularly enough, consistently enough to know whether or not this thing is hearing off course.
37:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, God, I wish someone would have told me, I'm always curious, like how my story would have played out if someone was like, make sure you're checking in and do this.
37:22
[SPEAKER_01]: But all we can do now is just stop the cycle.
37:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, and live your best life.
37:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this is the life you have.
37:29
[SPEAKER_00]: It could have played out in different ways, but who knows?
37:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Who cares?
37:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, this is exactly exactly who cares?
37:35
[SPEAKER_00]: I think, people always ask me all the time.
37:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what would you do differently?
37:37
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, I'm not sure what I'm doing anything differently.
37:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Number one is because I'm really happy with what I'm at right now in my family life.
37:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And number two, even if I had a time machine, I could go back and say, Zach, you should do this differently.
37:49
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure what to listen, you know?
37:51
[SPEAKER_00]: If somebody has dropped into your life, as you're about to get married and say, hey, listen, the Catholic church doesn't really, it's not probably the right thing for you.
37:59
[SPEAKER_00]: You should probably not do that.
38:01
[SPEAKER_00]: You wouldn't have listened.
38:02
[SPEAKER_00]: It would have been like, well, but my family, well, but they did it well, but they're so and so.
38:07
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, it takes what it takes.
38:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
38:11
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, time takes time.
38:12
[SPEAKER_00]: And so again, all we can do right now is just do the best we can with what we have available right now for me, as much as I love working with my clients.
38:20
[SPEAKER_00]: It means making sure that my relationship with Rebecca and my kids is solid enough that I can hold my head up and, you know, move through my days.
38:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
38:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I know you have experience with alcohol and you're sober now and it is, it is constantly like if I could say like what's someone asked me like what's the what's one of the number one problems that you see that impact people's health and fitness journey, but then also relationships and other things going on, one of the top three would be alcohol.
38:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
38:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I didn't get sober till I was ready.
38:56
[SPEAKER_00]: That's just the reality of that disease for me.
38:58
[SPEAKER_00]: But I can I looking back, I can tell you that anytime I went on like a personal like wellness retreat or I did something like a like, I don't know, like a three day centering something, whatever it might have been.
39:12
[SPEAKER_00]: And they were like, what's the, what's something that's in the way of you being your best self?
39:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I, I can't tell you how many times I wrote down alcohol.
39:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, if I, if I were just quit drinking, I'd be fine.
39:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I, I mean, for years decades probably.
39:22
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, this was out of my life.
39:24
[SPEAKER_00]: I would be fine.
39:25
[SPEAKER_00]: But I didn't listen to myself.
39:28
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I didn't listen to myself.
39:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Why wasn't right?
39:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Why was it right?
39:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I wasn't ready.
39:31
[SPEAKER_00]: I wasn't ready to hear it like I, or I was too, I was too sure that it would cost too much to do my drinking.
39:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I was, I was like, you know, I would cost too much.
39:41
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, and I mean, I was, I don't regret how long it took me.
39:45
[SPEAKER_00]: It took me to look, you know, but I'm so grateful right now.
39:48
[SPEAKER_00]: I live in a ton of gratitude for not having alcohol in my life.
39:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Like,
39:52
[SPEAKER_00]: people congratulate me on being I think I'm five and a half years and I like congratulations that doesn't mean anything to me I have no I have no pride about it I have only gratitude and so when people ask me about it I just you know and they say how did you do it I go I don't know
40:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I do know.
40:07
[SPEAKER_00]: I could tell you, but um, but what I know is that I, that I'm so glad that I'm not waking up home over, that I'm not embarrassed.
40:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not worried about what I'm going to say.
40:16
[SPEAKER_00]: When I go out at night, I'm not my kids aren't, you know, constantly fretting about whether or not they can trust me to drive or talk, you know, so yeah.
40:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Like,
40:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I just live in a different skin and I love it, you know, and to be honest, you know, one of our three periods was when I was sober and Rebecca was not yet, and I said, hey, listen, I'm, this is me now.
40:41
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the path I'm on.
40:42
[SPEAKER_00]: You can come if you want, but I'm not coming back over there.
40:45
[SPEAKER_00]: And you, you know, if you don't come, I'm going to leave you behind.
40:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I'm not gonna leave you.
40:50
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll say marriage to you, but it'll it's gonna suck and you're gonna.
40:54
[SPEAKER_00]: It's you know, yeah, but um, and she figured it out.
40:57
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, not I don't want to say she figured it out.
40:58
[SPEAKER_00]: She was right when she was ready.
41:00
[SPEAKER_00]: She she got on the wagon and that's where we live.
41:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
41:03
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's it's
41:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you think it's possible for someone, you know, based off your experience with alcohol to have had a problem, it was major problem and then they got sober and now every now and then they fall off the wagon and like they have a drink here and then a couple months past and then they drink you know here like is it possible to keep it in your life a little bit.
41:24
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't, I don't think it's possible for me.
41:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it might be for some people, but I don't know.
41:31
[SPEAKER_00]: My wife, I haven't relapsed one time since I put my last drink down.
41:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Rebecca's probably relapsed maybe half dozen times, six or seven.
41:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Always for one night, always, you know, so she doesn't fall off and then like go bingey crazy for months at a time or disappear at Las Vegas or something.
41:52
[SPEAKER_00]: But I can tell you that she, every single time she's like, nope, can't do it, nope, not for me.
41:57
[SPEAKER_00]: So, not for me, not for her.
42:00
[SPEAKER_00]: But maybe somebody, maybe somebody can.
42:02
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, alcoholism, alcohol dependency, alcohol abuse, they're all different and they all manifest differently for different people.
42:11
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, who knows?
42:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Who knows what your diagnosis is?
42:14
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it really matters, you know?
42:17
[SPEAKER_00]: for me it was it was preventing me from living my best life and I don't have any interest in entered sometimes sometimes I'm like hmm a cocktail would sound really nice right sure but I don't have any confidence that I could I wouldn't just open my own floodgates because I have enough kind of OCD that I would be like I don't know I just I wouldn't be yeah good idea for me yep
42:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Zach, it's been amazing having you on can if there's one thing that you could leave our listeners knowing kind of like the demographic and struggles that we've talked about on here is there anything that comes to mind that you would like to leave it with.
42:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I have a kind of a hit pocket answer to this question because people will ask me like, what's the secret?
43:04
[SPEAKER_00]: And I, yeah, I've basically bowed it down to two things.
43:07
[SPEAKER_00]: And then one, I've set a couple of times already, which is you've got to be a grab.
43:10
[SPEAKER_00]: You've got to be a functional adult.
43:11
[SPEAKER_00]: You've got to be emotionally intelligent and aware and attentive to your own shit so that you can show up in the relationship.
43:19
[SPEAKER_00]: That's important.
43:20
[SPEAKER_00]: And then from that position, the secret of a healthy relationship is pretty simple.
43:28
[SPEAKER_00]: That's it.
43:30
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the whole thing.
43:31
[SPEAKER_00]: As an adult, you do more things that they like and fewer things that they don't like.
43:34
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you have a chance.
43:36
[SPEAKER_00]: The rest of it is just, you know, whatever.
43:38
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to grapple with stress and you have to grapple with strain, but I think the number one thing is to be a grown-up and the number two thing is to learn enough about what your partner likes and doesn't like that you can show up for them in the ways that are important.
43:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and imagine if they're doing that for you, and you're doing that for them.
43:52
[SPEAKER_00]: You're both doing it.
43:53
[SPEAKER_00]: You're cooking with gas, it's amazing.
43:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
43:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, Zach, this has been great.
43:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Where can people follow you, find you?
43:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Give us it all, and we'll put it in the show notes, too.
44:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, the internet's easy.
44:03
[SPEAKER_00]: My name's Zach Brittle, so you can find me there.
44:05
[SPEAKER_00]: I've got a weekly podcast, it comes out every week.
44:07
[SPEAKER_00]: It's called Marriage Therapy Radio.
44:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Other format of that show is that I interview couples.
44:11
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you're just like, how do other couples do it?
44:14
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I'm learning about every time.
44:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I just learned something new every week.
44:19
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm on sub-stack.
44:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Sub-stack is it's called StuffIRight.com.
44:23
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's the place that I do most of my thinking out loud.
44:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Awesome.
44:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
44:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Awesome.
44:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay everyone, check out the show notes.
44:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Zach, this has been great.
44:32
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope we can have you one again and keep this conversation going anytime.
44:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I think this was fantastic.
44:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Everyone, check out the show notes, read the books, grab them with the links to everything down there.
44:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you again for coming on.
44:50
[SPEAKER_01]: The bond-life podcast is for informational and entertainment purposes elements.
44:53
[SPEAKER_01]: The content share here is not intended as medical, legal, or professional advice.
44:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Always can talk with a qualified professional with or making any health settings by nature or legal decisions.
45:00
[SPEAKER_01]: The opinions shared on this podcast are personal, experiences, and insight.
45:04
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you need expert guidance, go find the right professional for you.
45:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for listening.