Latest / The FEEL Podcast: Women’s Empowerment, Emotional Wellness and Self-Leadership with Melissa Crook / Breaking Gender Stereotypes: How One Sports Doll Sparked a Movement for Girls’ Empowerment

Transcript

Breaking Gender Stereotypes: How One Sports Doll Sparked a Movement for Girls’ Empowerment · The FEEL Podcast: Women’s Empowerment, Emotional Wellness and Self-Leadership with Melissa Crook

0:00
I think with women in general, there's a lot of pressure to be
0:06
perfect in so many ways. I mean, this is, you know,
0:08
really, you know, pressed upon us at a very early age, right?
0:13
You know, be a good girl, be a good student, be, you know, be
0:16
dressed, have the best, you know, outfit, don't get dirty,
0:20
whatever, whatever, whatever. We all know that blah, blah,
0:22
blah. And, you know, I just thought I,
0:25
I really hate that. I hate that so much because
0:28
perfection takes away so much of the person's, a person's
0:32
uniqueness, their creativity, their what makes them special,
0:37
what makes them quirky. So if we're striving for
0:39
perfection, it takes all that away.
0:41
It takes away our creativity. It takes away our innovation.
0:44
Because we're not going to fail, right?
0:46
We're not going to make mistakes.
0:48
It doesn't allow us to make mistakes.
0:50
And there's no end to perfection.
0:52
So, yeah, yeah. Hello, welcome back to The Field
0:56
Podcast Today. I'm your host, Melissa Crook.
0:59
I'm so excited to share this guest with you today.
1:02
She and I met several months ago and got to know each other.
1:05
And the minute I heard her story, I'm like, oh, I cannot
1:08
wait to share her on my platform.
1:11
I think that you all are going to have so much to learn from
1:15
her story and her journey and how it connects to how she shows
1:19
up in the world today. And we're going to get into
1:21
that. But Jodi Bondi Norgard describes
1:24
herself as an advocate, a good listener, and a believer in
1:28
equality. Jody, welcome to the Fuel
1:30
Podcast. Oh, thanks for having me,
1:33
Melissa. I'm looking forward to our
1:35
conversation today. I am too.
1:37
I am too. And I think this is so
1:38
interesting that sometimes when we look at the things that we
1:43
work in or how we show up in the world or the things that our
1:45
kids are engaged with, sometimes we don't always make the
1:49
connection to the deeper meaning behind it or what that might
1:53
mean for them in the moment later on as they reflect.
1:56
This is going to mean more as we get into Jodie's story and share
2:00
what her background is and how she got on that road and, and
2:04
it's really going to line up with that believer in equality.
2:06
Remember that that advocate piece.
2:08
Remember that this is all going to come full circle.
2:11
But before we get started on that, Jody, talk to me about the
2:14
the very basic premise, but important premise.
2:18
In order to show up as an advocate in the world, in order
2:21
to be a good listener, in order to really continue to fight for
2:25
equality for women, you've got to have a full cup to operate
2:29
from. And you've got to have the
2:30
energy to continue living in that and also maintain a balance
2:36
of not allowing it to steal your joy when it gets frustrating and
2:40
a hard at times. So talk to me about yourself
2:43
care journey and how you've learned to take care of yourself
2:47
well through this road that you've been on and these things
2:51
that you're so passionate about. OK, All right.
2:54
I feel like there are a lot of things I could answer there.
2:56
Do you want me to start with myself care or do you want me to
3:00
start with my journey and then I can start with my and then tell
3:03
you throughout this beginning period how myself, how I kept,
3:08
you know, care of myself mentally and physically.
3:11
That second one. OK, perfect.
3:13
Because, you know, for the first half half of my life, truly, I,
3:19
I thought, you know, I needed to lean in more, I needed to buck
3:26
up, I needed to work harder. That, you know, there was
3:29
something wrong with me, right? That why is, why is this so
3:34
hard? And, and this is before I had an
3:37
aha moment, which I will eventually get to.
3:39
But I, I, I, you know, I saw a lot of discrepancies in our, in
3:45
our culture when I was younger that, you know, was not
3:50
beneficial to women, right? Like you have to work harder.
3:53
I mean, one of the things that I write about in, in my book is I,
3:56
I was going, I'm right out of college.
3:59
I go in for an interview. I, I, this other guy is
4:03
interviewing or in the office, you know that we're going back
4:06
and forth and then they let him go and I'm like, OK, it's me.
4:10
And they said, OK, we'd like for you to come back for one more
4:14
test. I'm like, OK, one more test.
4:16
And they're like, it's a typing test.
4:19
I'm like, wait a minute, he didn't have to take the typing
4:22
test. I have to take the typing test,
4:24
right? Like why do I have to do this?
4:26
And she's just like, don't, don't make any waves, just just
4:31
do it, right? So I saw a lot of things like
4:34
that, right, that we had to go the extra mile that there was,
4:37
you know, that there were certain things that undervalue
4:40
and under minded women. Another thing, for instance, I
4:44
had so many people ask me, you know, how do you do it?
4:48
Running a business with three kids.
4:50
I'm like, have you ever asked my husband that?
4:53
I can bet not. I can bet not, but I had bet a
4:57
lot of your listeners and female listeners have heard that.
5:00
But so I seriously Melissa went along with this bullshit for
5:07
half my life until I had an aha moment when my daughter was nine
5:15
years old. And then I have two boys on
5:16
either side, all pretty close in age.
5:20
But I am going to go through and once I say that.
5:22
But a lot of things, what really helped me in my life to keep
5:27
myself physically and mentally sane through all this, and this
5:32
is just work for me was exercise.
5:37
So I was always a big runner, not a great runner, but I, I, it
5:42
just, it was just like the best bang for my buck.
5:45
Mm hmm. And if I could get out there for
5:47
30 minutes, I found that it cleared my head.
5:51
It made me a better person and made me a better friend.
5:54
And then as I move forward, it made me a better wife and, and,
5:58
and mother and I like myself better.
6:00
I could just think more clearly. So I think, you know, the
6:03
exercise for me became my meditation.
6:07
And to this day, I, I try to do something every day, whether you
6:10
know, it's a walk or a bike ride or, you know, playing paddle,
6:13
which is a big sport out in Chicago outdoors or, you know,
6:16
and, you know, doing something like that.
6:20
But that has really, you know, kept my sanity.
6:25
Yeah, yeah. And helped you continue.
6:28
You, you dealt, we're going to talk about this in a minute,
6:30
that mental, emotional, physical health connection because that
6:33
you really addressed all of that within that.
6:36
Before we talk about that, talk to me about healthy studying.
6:39
Healthy, I can say this the right way, setting healthy
6:42
boundaries for yourself. You got a company, you've got
6:45
kids, you've got a spouse. You, you, you have this advocacy
6:48
work and these ways that you care about women so much that
6:52
you've got to build some time and space with what you will
6:56
allow in your space and what you won't allow in your space.
6:59
And sometimes that might mean saying no to some things that
7:01
are good, but they just aren't lying at the time.
7:04
Talk to you about how you've learned to do that for yourself
7:08
in a way that allowed you to show up as your healthiest,
7:12
authentic version in all these different spaces that are
7:14
calling to you. Yeah, yeah, it, it was a, it was
7:18
a lot to juggle and I felt very passionate about everything you
7:20
just mentioned there. So, but I, you know, one of the
7:23
things that I, I gave myself permission early on.
7:28
So when I entered the toy business, I knew nothing about
7:31
the toy business. Nothing.
7:32
Designing, manufacturing, you know, retail, bringing a product
7:37
to retail, nothing. And I needed to figure it out.
7:39
But I said that, I said to myself, you know what?
7:41
I've got to give myself grace. Because if I make some errors,
7:46
it's, it's, it's OK because I, I how, how, how else am I going to
7:51
learn? How else am I going to move
7:54
forward if I don't? And I don't like to say fail,
7:58
but it's more of making errors or making mistakes.
8:03
So I gave myself that, and I really have stuck with it
8:07
throughout my whole career. Yeah, because I saw the benefits
8:13
of it. I think with women in general,
8:17
there's a lot of pressure to be perfect in so many ways.
8:21
I mean, this is really, you know, pressed upon us at a very
8:26
early age, right? You know, be a good girl, be a
8:28
good student, be, you know, be dress, have the best, you know,
8:32
outfit, don't get dirty, whatever, whatever, whatever.
8:35
We all know that blah, blah, blah.
8:37
And you know, I just thought I, I really hate that.
8:40
I hate that so much because perfection takes away so much of
8:45
the person's, a person's uniqueness, their creativity,
8:49
their what makes them special, what makes them quirky.
8:52
So if we're striving for perfection, it takes all that
8:55
away. It takes away our creativity.
8:57
It takes away our innovation because we're not going to fail,
9:00
right? We're not going to make
9:01
mistakes. It doesn't allow us to make
9:03
mistakes and there's no end to perfection.
9:06
So, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
9:10
I, you said that so well, I'd love it was literally in my
9:13
brain and you said it the minute it came to my brain.
9:15
It robs you of that creativity, the trying to do things, the
9:19
experimentation, the the the fearlessness to tap into
9:23
something and see what's there. And you've had these different
9:25
moments in your life where you've had phenomenal ideas, but
9:31
you had people in your path and in your way because the toy
9:34
industry is a more male dominated industry that I think
9:37
people realize and how toys are introduced and how they're
9:41
gender assigned and, and all these different things we do in
9:45
society within that. And so if you didn't give
9:50
yourself that grace, these ideas and creative spaces would never
9:53
come through in you to lead you down the road today.
9:58
I, you know, I, I, I don't, I don't like the word failure
10:01
because I don't like our word relationship, our relationship
10:04
with the word failure. If you know, I don't see if you
10:07
learn something from it, if you gave it a try, if you took a
10:10
gamble on yourself, it's never a failure.
10:13
The only failure, the only failure is not trusting yourself
10:18
to do that thing. So I think we could learn to
10:22
live out of that scope of it would be so out to.
10:25
Right. And not trying right.
10:27
There's so much fear associated with failure and it just
10:33
prevents people from trying something and sometimes it it
10:38
works and sometimes it doesn't, but it may lead to another great
10:42
idea or might might spark an idea and somebody else within
10:47
your team, within your family, within your, you know, whatever
10:51
situation you're, you know, you know, you know in at that point
10:56
so. Yeah, absolutely.
10:57
So when we talk about mental, emotional, physical health, you
11:02
talked about how the running it became tapped into that it
11:06
became a meditational activity for you.
11:09
I'm a firm believer that we got to take care of all those spaces
11:13
or we will start feeling the bad outcomes of not tending to those
11:19
spaces physically. You'll start having these
11:21
physical manifestations of things because all this other
11:25
stuff, these are mental and emotional stuff has been stuffed
11:28
away. You're working in these
11:30
environments again, like I said earlier, that really require you
11:33
to tune into that. So, so talk to me.
11:36
Has there been a time where you got away from that, that you had
11:38
a wake up call that you needed to get back into it or have you
11:41
always been aware? You talked about, you know,
11:43
running being a part of it. Have you always been aware of
11:46
that or talked? Tell me about how you kind of
11:48
learned that. Oh gosh.
11:50
I've always been aware 100%. I mean, I have never gotten off
11:54
of it because I feel is it, you know, it's everything is
11:59
connected, right? And and for me, it just, it just
12:02
made sense to, you know, you know, move my body if I move my
12:08
body, I I was way more creative. There were so many ideas I came
12:13
up with on a run and, you know, I just got lost in it.
12:17
But I, I, I'm, I don't know. For me, Melissa, it was very
12:23
important. And like I said, I I never ever,
12:27
ever have deviated from that at all.
12:30
Yeah, I love that. I love that you trusted that.
12:32
I love that you trusted yourself in it.
12:34
I love that you made it a non negotiable.
12:36
I think it's so important that we can tap into those things and
12:40
they just go in our calendar and there are non negotiables and
12:43
everything else works around that because we know this is
12:46
necessary for us to show up as our present precious, most
12:52
authentic self. And I'd let you, I, I relate to
12:55
you so wholeheartedly. I'll do a vigorous workout or
12:58
whatever it is I need that day, 10 minutes of quiet time, a
13:01
walk, whatever. And all of a sudden, as I clear
13:03
the space and I take that space, the creative ideas come, the
13:07
things I haven't thought of before, that maybe something
13:09
I've been loom, you know, ruminating on for a week, trying
13:13
to come up with something. All of a sudden, doesn't it make
13:15
sense because I created that space for it to happen.
13:18
I think that we're not underestimate the power of that.
13:21
So good. All right, Showing up for
13:24
ourselves and other women and living unapologetically.
13:27
This is so much a part of what you do.
13:31
But I want to take you back to a story you shared with me when we
13:34
met about this doll that you created and response to it.
13:39
But what you've learned from that.
13:40
So take us because I think this is a part of that unapologetic,
13:44
I'm going to create this. We're going to see what it goes,
13:46
where it goes. And, but even when you do that,
13:50
sometimes you, you run into walls and things that can really
13:53
take you out if you don't have that belief in yourself and, and
13:58
continue to have that unapologetic, unapologetic
14:01
understanding of the importance of taking those steps.
14:06
I think in addition to having belief in myself, which wasn't
14:10
always as strong at times during certain times of my journey, I
14:14
had belief in women and equality.
14:19
So that is what really kept me going.
14:24
I will get to my my story here in a second, but you know, in
14:29
my, in my life, I've never thought like I'm the smartest
14:32
person in the room or I know everything or I'm always right.
14:35
Not at all, not at all 100%. I love learning.
14:39
I love hearing people's ideas and thoughts.
14:41
I'm open minded. Again, I like to listen.
14:45
But when it came to the simple human right of gender equality,
14:54
I knew I was 100% right and I knew I wasn't going to back down
14:58
ever. So what happened is when my
15:03
daughter was nine years old, you know, I, I had a lot of, you
15:08
know, those gender issues were on my radar, right?
15:11
The, the gender inequality. So when she was 9 and my, you
15:15
know, my older one was 10 and then my younger one was around
15:19
6, I started to see discrepancies and products
15:23
marketed to girls. I started in boys.
15:25
So I started to see products marketed to girls associated
15:28
with appearance and attractiveness, products
15:31
marketed to boys associated with violence and aggression.
15:35
Now, my boys were never violent or aggressive, and I didn't want
15:38
to encourage that. And my daughter was always so
15:40
smart, and I didn't want her to feel that she had to, you know,
15:45
all of a sudden focus on what she looks like.
15:47
Yeah. So my aha moment just happened
15:51
and in a very unglamorous Theodore place.
15:54
It was at a toy store. So I'm just going to tell you
15:56
what my daughter looked like because she looked like a normal
15:58
kid on a Saturday afternoon. She had just gotten done playing
16:02
soccer. So she's in her shin guards,
16:04
her, you know, her jersey. Her hair is in crazy messy
16:07
pigtails. Her face is all lousy from
16:09
exertion when we have one of those panicky, I had a panicky
16:13
parent moment because she needed a wrap birthday gift for a party
16:16
she would be funding in 30 minutes.
16:18
Right, Right. We all have.
16:19
It's like, come on, got to get going.
16:21
And well, we're running into our toy store, our local toy store,
16:26
when we're frantically going up and down the aisles when the
16:29
line of dolls just stopped me in my tracks.
16:31
They had short skirts, crop top, belly button ring, big hair,
16:36
lots of makeup. I look at my daughter, I look at
16:39
these dolls. I pick up one of the dolls and I
16:41
and I bought her and the name on the hang tag was lovely Lola.
16:46
So this was this is lovely Lola. This is what?
16:49
And so the other dolls you can see, right?
16:53
I'm like, what in the world? This is insane.
16:56
So this is lovely Lola. So I started picking up the
16:58
other dolls in the line and there was Sizzle and Sue and
17:02
Dazzle and Destiny and Cue Candy, who literally had a
17:06
meltdown on the toy store. I brought this doll up and I
17:09
said, listen, you should not be marketing this crap to our
17:14
girls. And the kids were like, well,
17:16
I'm 16. I'm like, you know what?
17:18
Tell your manager because I'm looking tired of it.
17:22
So I did. I brought the doll home to my
17:24
husband and I said, listen, I think I can do something about
17:28
it. I think I can create a positive
17:30
image doll that encourages girls to be healthy physically,
17:34
mentally and emotionally through sports and physical activity.
17:37
Yeah. So I did.
17:39
And I took it took two years from rough draft to the actual
17:43
debut of the first doll. So, I mean, there was a lot, you
17:47
know, that I had to figure out. Like I said before, I knew
17:50
nothing. Yeah.
17:52
So my daughter was a great model and all her friends that would
17:55
come through, I'd measure all wingspans, the size of their
17:59
head, their torso, their length of their legs, because I shrunk
18:04
it down to make sure it was in correct proportion to a little
18:07
girl's body. Yeah.
18:09
So yes, there's a lot that went into it, but I'll pause there in
18:15
case you have any questions or I can move on to my first order.
18:18
But that was pretty exciting. I love that.
18:20
I love that you. I mean, I think it's one of
18:23
those things. So I'm a mom of three daughters
18:26
and this drove me crazy. And so I remember there was this
18:32
particular Barbie on my oldest daughter's list, and I'm like, I
18:37
am not getting her a Barbie, but they just come out with a line
18:40
of WNBA Barbies. That's where I will.
18:44
OK, She's wanted this Barbie and she wasn't The funny thing.
18:47
She wasn't really a Barbie kid. She was very outdoorsy, very
18:52
athletic, very also very creative.
18:54
But she was all the things like she was this full person and she
18:59
wasn't. You know, we try to put little
19:01
boys and little girls in these boxes and conform them.
19:04
When all three of my girls were all of these things, all of
19:08
these what we call feminine, what we call masculine, they
19:11
embodied all of these things and I wanted to them.
19:14
I came up in an environment that was very gender specific about
19:19
how you were supposed to show up in the world.
19:21
I was surrounded by boys and men's opinions about that.
19:24
And I didn't want them to feel that burden.
19:27
And so we got her this WNBA Barbie and she and, and she
19:32
still talked about this because at the time she was irritated at
19:35
the time. But then she came to understand
19:37
she's now, she and her sisters are the biggest WNBA fans on the
19:42
planet. Like they went out all the time.
19:44
But that was something that I was very like, God, what is it
19:48
that we can do that can be like meet her where she is because
19:51
she's seeing all these other little girls around her.
19:54
She's seeing the stuff advertised on the Disney Channel
19:56
and Nickelodeon and all these spaces and places we can have at
20:00
her friends houses. But also that isn't I feel like
20:04
like caving on my own values of what I want from my daughters.
20:07
So yeah, I think that that. And so I love how you took that
20:11
moment and as a mom and you're. Yeah, there's nothing here.
20:17
It fits this. And I had, I had the three
20:19
daughters coming off the soccer field in the shin cards, the
20:22
rosy cheeks that go into the birthday party after that
20:25
looking that way. And it's like, let's where's
20:29
this in all their forms and types and tall, short, little,
20:33
chubby, little, little, you know, ski, whatever it is, they
20:36
are in all their little phases. So.
20:39
So. Yeah.
20:39
So talk to me about what it felt like to really make this a line
20:44
with where your daughters and her friends were and then having
20:47
that. 1st order right? And you know what I, I do want
20:51
to bring out you, you, you made me think of something and you
20:54
know that every parent, you know, wanting to buy a doll for
20:57
their, their daughter, you know, will understand or, or be
21:01
shocked when I tell them this. But there when I, when I was
21:05
designing the doll, I had to start somewhere.
21:07
So I started some, you know, with research, obviously.
21:10
You know, were there any sports dolls out there?
21:12
No, you know, Barbie would come out every now and then with, you
21:15
know, an Olympic doll or, you know, some other sports doll,
21:20
you know, here and there. But I did find 75 lines of
21:24
fashion dolls, 75 lines. There are still 75 lines of
21:30
fashion dolls approximately out there and no sports dolls.
21:34
So to me, I thought it's it's it's it's a no brainer, right?
21:39
Like just I'm not saying you don't have to take away any of
21:42
the dolls. You don't have to take away any
21:44
of the 75 lines of dolls, but just give them an option, right?
21:48
Because you know that that is, you know, like you said, your,
21:54
your daughters are full people. We all are.
21:58
So when we, you know, pigeonhole children into certain
22:03
directions, right? This, you know, this box
22:06
feminism, this box masculism, it, it's not, it's not healthy.
22:12
It's not healthy at all. And it limits our, you know, our
22:16
our growth as a country, as a world.
22:20
So anyway, that I mean, obviously I wasn't thinking like
22:23
that in the beginning, but I learned so much.
22:26
So my first order was it just by chance?
22:31
It was a it was a phone call that I made to the United States
22:34
Tennis Association to buy the dolls for, you know, the US Open
22:40
in 2008. Yeah.
22:41
And they, I got to the right person right away and they said
22:46
within 5 minutes, they're like, we love this.
22:48
We'll take 500. So those 500 sold out in six
22:53
days. Wow.
22:54
So that was a great first Test. So that was for tennis girl, you
22:59
know, and they repeated that order every year, every year,
23:03
every year. It was just great.
23:04
They sold so well at the US Open.
23:06
Yeah. But my next goal was to launch
23:09
the line of nine dolls at the New York Toy Fair.
23:12
So that would. That was in 2009, in February of
23:16
2009 at the Javits Center. And that's where everybody comes
23:20
in from all over to see what the next best thing is.
23:23
Yeah. And I'm like, borderline cocky.
23:25
I'm like, it's me. Yeah.
23:26
It's like, I've got the next best thing.
23:28
Yeah. Well, not so much.
23:30
I had so many buyers come to my booth and say, I love your
23:34
product. My daughter plays soccer.
23:37
She would love soccer girl Cassie.
23:39
And I'd say great. How many would you like to buy?
23:41
And I'd always get the hand. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no.
23:43
We're we're not going to buy it because it'll never sell.
23:47
And I said, well, why? And they said because ultimately
23:50
girls like fashion. Can you create a fashion doll?
23:53
I'm like, that's my point. As a mother of a daughter and as
23:58
a woman, I'm positive girls like more than fashion.
24:02
Now, I always like to preface, we have nothing against fashion.
24:05
Absolutely. Yeah, I love how people express
24:08
themselves. I love how designers are artists
24:12
and they, you know, they they do amazing things.
24:15
I have nothing against it, but does it define a person?
24:19
Yeah, absolutely not. Absolutely, yeah.
24:23
And it's just one facet of who you can be.
24:28
And so we just, and then you see this doll and these are your,
24:32
you know, you talk about these 75 different ones.
24:35
They sell well because they're the only option.
24:38
So why don't you know, why don't we put something out there to
24:42
compete against that? But then that disrupts a whole
24:44
other narrative that we have that's.
24:47
A really interesting point, Melissa, because this happened
24:50
in the like, you know, the nut butter industry years ago when I
24:54
was growing up, all we had was peanut butter right?
24:58
There was, you know, you could have 75 lines of peanut butter
25:01
and you know, that's all we had. But if somebody said one in and
25:06
said, well, I have cashew butter, I have, you know,
25:09
pistachio butter and almond butter and all this stuff.
25:12
But the grocer said, but really, my customers only like peanut
25:16
butter. You know, they would have missed
25:18
out on a huge revenue growth within the nut butter industry.
25:23
So it took when when they introduced all the different
25:26
types of nut butters, it took a just a tiny bit away from the
25:29
peanut butter revenue, but it exploded the nut butter revenue.
25:34
Yeah. So I mean, it's so to your
25:36
point, yeah, that, you know, when the buyers were saying they
25:39
only buy fashion, they only like fashion dolls.
25:42
If that's all you're offering them, that's all they're going
25:44
to buy. You don't.
25:46
You don't have have any tests out there to show that
25:50
differently if they have a different option.
25:52
I think it's but it you said something, I think it's so
25:55
important. This feeds so much into these
26:00
patriarchal societal norms that we have lived with as women for
26:03
thousands of years. They aren't new.
26:06
We just see different iterations of it over time.
26:09
And we're hearing a lot of conversations now about how men
26:15
in our country are getting to these spaces are feeling lonely
26:18
and detached and all these things.
26:20
And, and we run into these spaces with women.
26:23
I talk to women all the time who hit this midlife point and they
26:25
crash because they've never stopped to consider what they
26:29
were aligned with. What if we stopped putting these
26:33
kids in boxes when they're 345 years old, 234 from the minute
26:39
they're born and how we dress them and how we present them and
26:43
how we decorate the room, the toys we buy for them and tell
26:47
them what it is and is OK for and not OK for them to play with
26:52
based on all these gender norms? What if we just allowed them to
26:55
be and see by exposing them to all of their options and being
27:01
fully open to all the possibilities, maybe all of a
27:05
sudden we're they're choosing life based on who they were
27:09
designed to be. They're not running into these
27:11
loneliness and I don't know where to belong and toxic
27:14
masculinity and not be, you know, midlife crises because
27:18
they were never cheated of the opportunity to explore that in
27:21
the 1st place. And that starts with the with
27:24
the toys that they play with and the things that the stereotypes
27:27
and stigmas that we put around that.
27:30
Mm hmm. It starts the moment a child can
27:33
hold a toy, a book or watch a screen.
27:35
Yes, yes. And absolutely.
27:37
Yeah. And you know, a lot of a lot of
27:39
people in the toy industry call it package childhood.
27:42
Yeah, they package the childhood, and that's where we
27:46
direct them. So you, you are, you are 100%
27:50
right. You know, my feeling is we have
27:52
nothing to lose. Right.
27:54
We have nothing to lose, so why not?
27:57
Why not give it a shot? But I think parents really, we
28:00
have a lot of power, yeah. I think women have a lot of
28:03
power. We're 51% of the population.
28:06
We control over 80%. I think of cash, what is it like
28:10
80, almost 90% maybe of the consumer spending.
28:16
So we have it's it's really time for us to recognize our power,
28:21
yeah, and use it and to press on together, Yeah, because we have
28:25
a lot of power. So if you don't like something
28:29
in your house, just don't buy it.
28:31
Don't buy it. That will send a strong message
28:35
to the retailer and the manufacturer.
28:38
Yeah, absolutely. And I'd love that coming
28:40
together piece. It is so important for us as
28:42
women who come together in this to learn and listen.
28:47
Going back to that listening piece, be a good listener, learn
28:50
how it somebody else's story, how it is you and show up and
28:53
support them in this and and model that to our little girls
28:58
as they come up going back. So you leave the toy Fair and I,
29:03
I would have been absolutely bamboozled and infuriated coming
29:09
out of that because I was with you.
29:10
You were telling me this story the first time.
29:12
This is a slam dunk. This is what we've been waiting
29:15
for. So talk to me about after coming
29:18
out of that experience, kind of like, OK, what do I do with this
29:23
now? Yeah, I know.
29:24
What do I do now? I needed to figure it out.
29:27
I really did. And I'm like, you know, I'm
29:30
like, how do I, how do I set myself apart from, you know,
29:34
the, the, the, you know, the big companies, you know, the Barbies
29:38
and all the 75 other lines of fashion dolls.
29:41
And I'm like, you know, I have a story and it's pretty good.
29:46
And so I did a really big PR push and it was successful.
29:51
And I mean, and that, and it just kept going.
29:52
It just kept going right. So I found that I, I would, I
29:57
was in a ton of publications. I was on a ton of shows,
30:00
including the Today show did a feature on me and, and, and my
30:04
brand, which is really cool. And so I also won all the top
30:10
awards in the toy industry. So I knew I had a pulse on what
30:14
our culture wanted. I knew I had a vibe that parents
30:17
wanted more for their girls, too.
30:20
But the buyers were my gatekeepers.
30:23
You know, they're, they're just in this really antiquated wash,
30:28
rinse, repeat cycle, right? You're looking for the next big
30:33
thing and is it the next Barbie? Is it the next, you know, I
30:39
don't know, you know, cabbage patch doll, you know, what is
30:42
it? What is it?
30:43
So they're looking for this next best thing.
30:46
And you know, a lot of buyers did say, you know, one day this
30:49
is going to be huge and what it is, give me a call because I
30:52
I'll, I'll jump on board. I'm like.
30:55
Yeah, what are we waiting for? I know it's so, you know, there
30:59
it's just, you know, it all comes down to, you know, bottom
31:03
line, Melissa Sabry, you know, I mean, it comes down to is this
31:08
going to make our company a lot of money?
31:12
Is this going to, you know, give our shareholders what they want?
31:16
So you know what, a lot of times, you know, we think that
31:19
the toy industry has the kids, you know, top of mind, but not
31:26
always, Yeah, you know, not always.
31:28
So we have to be really careful. One of the examples is.
31:33
Are you familiar with the LOL dolls?
31:36
I'm not, but I my kids are grown now so I'm a little and I don't
31:40
have grandkids yet, so I'm in that in between, like not in
31:43
touch. You're, you're in the yeah,
31:45
yeah, the, the no toy phase. You're, you're in the big ticket
31:48
item phase with your kids. Yeah.
31:52
So it's the the the LOL dolls were created by MGA and that
31:58
company is a privately owned company, a very big company.
32:01
And they're the creators of the brat stalls.
32:03
So that'll be I know. I would not let my daughters
32:07
have brat stalls. No, say that.
32:10
No, I ate. They were awful, awful.
32:13
They're still are awful. And so the, the company created
32:18
in the late, I think it was probably around 2018, maybe they
32:24
were launched 2017, these LOL dolls.
32:27
So they came in the hall and it had a surprise, right?
32:31
So, so you would, it was like a landfill nightmare.
32:35
They're still around, but you'd open the ball and every little
32:38
thing is packaged, right? So it was like the surprise
32:42
factor. Oh, I got shoes to go along with
32:45
a Dolly or whatever. And so these things are like
32:47
that big and they're plastic. And they had a color feature,
32:53
you know, which accompanied disclose a secret color feature.
32:55
But what they didn't disclose is that when you dip the little
33:00
dolls in cold water, which they encourage you to do, some of
33:04
them came out with sexy lingerie, Others came out with a
33:09
devil tail on its backside. Others had shackles on the rib
33:15
ankles. Yes, this toy won the Toy
33:19
Association Toy of the Year award in 2019. 20 and 21.
33:26
They're still out there there's. Like 50 Shades of grey doll.
33:29
What's I know? I don't even.
33:32
Imagine. I know.
33:34
So I mean, there were parents that went nuts on this and you
33:38
know, MGA said. Well, we just go, you know, we
33:42
just go off of what, you know, culturally is happening and we
33:48
bring this to our kids. It's like.
33:50
That's your excuse. That's your.
33:53
That's so void values I know. Can you imagine?
34:00
Sitting around like a big table thing.
34:02
Yeah, let's have this one with shackles on our wrists.
34:04
You know, I mean, it's like, why didn't somebody do that and just
34:08
say, no, we can't do that? That's that's inappropriate.
34:12
So I did, I called, I, I know a lot of, you know, other people
34:15
in the toy association, I called them up because I did an article
34:19
on it. And I said, do you know this?
34:23
That this is what MGA did because it won your top Toy of
34:27
the Year award three years in a row.
34:29
And they're like, no idea. I'm like, OK, better, you
34:34
better, you know, do your homework a little bit more.
34:37
So. So that's why I think, you know,
34:39
like, sexy dolls are alive and kicking.
34:42
And I don't know why MGA and their, you know, President Isaac
34:47
Lariam decided that this was a good idea and that actually
34:50
little girls would like this. But it's not only the message
34:54
that is damaging to little girls, it's also damaging to
34:58
little boys because this is how we view little girls.
35:01
Exactly. Yes, It starts so early and we
35:05
don't take into a fact how early we're planting the seed of how
35:11
to view, how to treat, what to expect.
35:16
Oh my God, and it does so much damage.
35:18
I mean, that's just that is infuriating to me.
35:21
Instead of looking at a doll like you've created that gives
35:25
options and empowerment of like, oh, girls are athletes too.
35:28
Oh, girls run too. Oh, girls are strong too, like
35:31
or for little boys that like, oh, that'd be fun.
35:34
I'd I'd like to play with her. That and and being OK, like all
35:39
these stigmas and stereotypes and conditions and shoulds that
35:46
we've put in these kids life that that form and and it's
35:50
starting to make the like let's get upriver on this stuff and
35:54
start, you know, responding instead of reacting later when
35:57
the damage has been done. We continue to put this garbage
36:00
out in the world. I mean, I think that's so
36:02
important, which leads me to my next point of your why and your
36:06
values. You have a very, like you have
36:08
never given in to the absurdity, like you've never let it derail
36:14
you from your purpose. Talk to me about when you knew
36:19
this is what you cared about, this this importance of.
36:23
Yeah. When was that first, that next
36:26
point that you made? Like this is my thing.
36:29
Well, you know, I've always been surrounded by, you know, very
36:32
strong and, and, and smart women.
36:36
And it always was confusing to me when, you know, I'd I'd hear
36:42
my friends, you know, say, you know, oh, I'm just not that
36:45
smart. I'm like, Oh my God, you're the
36:47
smartest person I know. Yeah.
36:48
Like, why would you say that, You know, or, you know, just
36:52
hear their confidence just be chipped away and chipped away
36:57
and chipped away. And, you know, I, I also, you
37:02
know, Warren Buffett said something that really resonated
37:05
with me. He said, look at what our
37:07
country has accomplished using half its talent and imagine what
37:11
we could accomplish if we pulled women off the sidelines.
37:15
And I thought that was so interesting because when I was
37:18
younger and just my own observation, when I was, you
37:21
know, my own story and, you know, we all have these stories.
37:25
But I was, you know, a very, you know, I was a good student.
37:29
I have a lot of friends. I was, you know, that kid that
37:32
the teachers would say, hey, we have a new student.
37:35
Would you mind sitting with them at lunch?
37:37
You know, I felt good about myself.
37:39
And then I got older and into junior high.
37:41
So those those things that made me strong, like my sensitivity,
37:45
my compassion for others, you know, my, you know, those things
37:51
that I knew innately were my strengths and then I was told
37:55
were my strengths when I was a younger person.
37:58
All of it the sudden became my weaknesses as I got old, right?
38:03
I can't I, I was told I was too nice, I was too kind, I was too
38:08
sensitive. You know, I would never make it
38:11
in the business world because I was too compassionate and I just
38:15
didn't have what it took to make it.
38:17
My guidance counselor actually told me that when I was a senior
38:20
in high school. But I know it was just like, you
38:24
know, So then I, you know, and then I was, when I was younger
38:27
too, I was, you know, very blonde.
38:29
And, you know, if I asked questions, I had two male
38:34
teachers tell me in junior high in middle school that the reason
38:39
I asked those questions was because I was blonde.
38:41
And I was like. Oh no, OK, it's not a whole dumb
38:45
blonde, dear. Wow.
38:47
Yeah, they were basically like calling me a dumb blonde, which
38:50
led to, you know, those idiot, you know, kids in, in, in school
38:55
giving them permission to call me a dumb blonde.
38:58
So then I was known as a dumb blonde.
39:00
So, so I, I'm, I'm telling you this because that those
39:04
instances when I was always a leader in my own mind and you
39:10
know, I felt like that. And when I was in, you know,
39:12
younger, as I got into high school, I thought, I, I want to
39:16
do student council. I don't want to be the
39:18
president. I'm going to be on the tennis
39:21
and, and track team. I don't want to be the captain,
39:24
right. Like I, I, I found myself no
39:27
longer sitting at the front of the class, in the middle and in
39:30
the back because I wanted to hide.
39:33
I didn't want to raise my hand. I felt like I was sitting on the
39:37
sidelines and I had a lot to offer.
39:40
I felt that, you know what, this is my place.
39:43
I'm going to be sitting on the sidelines until I got to
39:46
college. And I was like, what am I doing?
39:49
Like I just woke up and, you know, and I was getting a lot
39:53
of, you know, good feedback from, you know, my work and, you
39:57
know, you know, whatever I was involved in, I'm like, you know
40:00
what, I've been sitting on the sidelines and it's time to get
40:04
off the sidelines and it's time to take other women and help
40:08
them off the sidelines. So that has been my mission is
40:13
to. Not allow women to sit on the
40:16
sidelines, Yeah. And that's really the moment
40:19
just goes perfectly into our next talking point.
40:21
You stopped living out of other people's expectations and
40:25
started living out of your own. You came back home to yourself.
40:28
You came back home to who you knew you were in elementary
40:32
school. And I think it's so interesting.
40:34
I was listening to somebody the other day, can't remember who it
40:37
was, was talking about this very important parts in all of us, no
40:43
matter how we identify, no matter our gender, there are
40:47
those masculine traits and there's those feminine traits
40:50
and they exist in all of us and they and we need them all for
40:55
all the different ways that will show up in the world.
40:58
And so you're embracing all of the parts of us and seeing all
41:04
the parts of us is a strength that depending on the situation,
41:07
we will need to tap into at different times and call on to
41:12
allow us to be fully present and aware and the healthiest version
41:17
of our self that that moment requires.
41:19
But when we shut those things off because of the, the
41:23
narrative we've received that that's that means you're weak or
41:27
that means you're soft or that means you're this or that, like
41:30
we've completely cut off a part of ourselves and, and, and it's
41:34
been done to all of us. And at some point there's a
41:37
reckoning with that. And I would say there's a
41:40
reckoning with that right now in this country.
41:42
We are being led by individuals who operate out of these partial
41:48
hurt, damaged parts of themselves.
41:51
And that where they are not, they don't feel the freedom to
41:54
tap into the full expression of it.
41:56
And we're all suffering for it. And and going back to this
42:00
starts with when you're in the toy aisle, when you're shopping
42:04
for your kids for the holidays, for birthdays, for their
42:08
friends, think about the things and the messages you're sending
42:12
to them. But let's get back to you got
42:15
off on a soapbox moment there. But let's get back to you
42:18
decided in this moment, it is time for me to live out of my
42:22
own expectations instead of others.
42:25
Was that a Was that kind of a really freeing moment for you?
42:30
Yeah, it, it was, it was just like this isn't this is insane,
42:35
right? I, I, I'm seeing so much of
42:37
this, you know, that, you know, women just aren't feeling
42:42
confident and or, you know, they, in my opinion, should have
42:47
been way more confident because, you know, they were all that in
42:50
a bag of chips. I'm like, Oh my God, like you
42:53
could rule the world. Like, no, don't let anyone take
42:57
that, you know, spark away from you.
42:59
So, you know, that is and I and I truly believe that I, you
43:04
know, and I know not everybody, and I'm not asking either.
43:08
I'm not striving for, you know, one gender to be better.
43:11
Exactly. Yeah, I am just asking for
43:15
equality. Absolutely shouldn't be that
43:18
difficult. And it shouldn't be that hard.
43:20
Yeah. And I shouldn't tell you,
43:22
Melissa, that there are so many researches that that state that
43:26
by the age of five, a little girl starts believing that their
43:30
gender can't do as much. And then by the age of nine, a
43:34
little girl's confidence peaks. And then she starts to feel the
43:38
need to to conform to a way a girl should look, should act and
43:44
should feel right. And it's not surprising with the
43:47
confusing and conflict messages that they receive.
43:50
So it's, you know, it's up to us to just, you know, call out all
43:54
of this and recognize I, I almost feel like once that light
43:57
bulb goes on, then you start seeing more and more and more of
44:03
this, you know, you know, inequality that is out there.
44:08
And I always say, you know, you know, talk about it, talk about
44:11
it with your spouse, talk about it, you know, with your
44:13
children, talk about it with your friends.
44:15
You know, like This Is Us, like this is not, this is not OK,
44:19
Because you know, I, I guess what I'm doing is I'm sounding
44:24
the siren that, you know, gender inequality starts early.
44:29
And so I've always thought, let's look at the root of the
44:31
problem, right? Because when we're older, you
44:34
know, when you're, when you're in your teens or your 20s or you
44:36
know, are in, in, in the workforce, you know, there's so
44:39
many health self help classes for women, right?
44:42
You fit in. How do you do it all, which is
44:44
all BS in my opinion. Is it working great?
44:47
I shouldn't say that if it works for you, great.
44:50
But I'm saying let's look at the root of the problem.
44:54
Because women and girls were not broken.
44:57
So culture that's broken and our society that needs to be fixed.
45:02
It's not us. Yeah, 1000% I love that so much.
45:07
And when you've made this shift in the decisions you've made and
45:10
making these bold choices, which shouldn't feel bold, but they
45:13
are because of the society we live in to put these products
45:16
out there that you know are a connect point this and and going
45:19
on your own PR and and writing the books and being a speaker
45:23
and being a voice. This is open doors of
45:24
opportunity for you to have influence to get in front of
45:28
people that can do have the power to make changes.
45:32
Talk to me about how that has been and, and, and what is.
45:39
I know there's a lot of frustration right now, but also
45:42
I would think I would hope there's some hope in that.
45:44
Talk to me about what you see happening as you're engaged in
45:48
these spaces. I mean, the last year is, I'll
45:55
be honest, when I'm at a speaking event, it's difficult.
45:57
I have a lot of a lot of sad women, a lot of what do we do
46:03
asking that question. Yeah, I do think there is hope
46:09
from that. The November election of women
46:14
being and now we have 2 new governors that are female.
46:21
I think things could be shifting.
46:25
We will see. I'm not quite sure, but it's
46:28
been hard. So I've there was like a point.
46:32
So my book launched in January and I was very, very busy for
46:36
about a good six months. And then in June, things started
46:39
to get very heavy and I started to see myself pull back from
46:42
doing some things. And and then I realized, you
46:46
know what? It's OK to rest.
46:49
We're in very difficult times where it's OK for us to rest.
46:54
It's not OK to give up. Yes.
46:56
So again, going back to your beginning, taking care of
47:00
yourself in this climate, it is OK to rest, but it's not OK to
47:07
give up. So I have been, I guess that's
47:11
been, you know, part of my self-care in this particular
47:18
time of life in our culture, which has been crazy.
47:24
So, you know, I, I, I still, I, I will, I will always continue
47:28
to fight. I will always continue to fight.
47:31
And I give a lot of credit for to Miss Magazine for giving me a
47:34
platform to always, you know, say what is on my mind.
47:39
Yeah, I hope all the people like it, too.
47:41
I think they do. Yes, I love that so much, so
47:44
important to have those spaces that you know you're going to
47:46
get to be seen, known and heard and valued and and and respected
47:51
and honored in that way. And also I love what you said
47:54
you got. It's so important right now.
47:56
When I went into this year, I was just like.
47:58
Oh. This work I'm doing and these
48:00
voices I'm sharing and these ways that I'm supporting women
48:03
are more important than ever. And also it requires more
48:08
intentional space to rest and refill because it's heavy and
48:14
it's anxiety written and it's hard and it can be infuriating
48:20
at times. But I but it's more important
48:23
now than ever for us to show up for this.
48:25
But we got to make sure we're doing it with a field cup or we
48:28
will hit the wall. We will get discouraged, we will
48:31
quit. And this is a time we need more
48:34
of us, not less of us. So thank you for sharing that
48:37
part about rest, so important rest we feel and what get back
48:41
in there. Let's go.
48:42
Yeah, we got to go and then we'll get tired again until it's
48:45
done. We just cannot give up.
48:47
And like you said, Melissa, there are so many different
48:49
spaces where we we can, we can help others like, like you
48:53
giving me and other women a space where we can share our
48:57
voices. It's, you know, you know, on
49:00
social media, it's marching, it's, you know, voting, it's
49:04
knocking on doors, it's making phone calls, but it's using your
49:09
voice. And I can't, you know, you know,
49:13
stress that enough that the importance of using your voice.
49:18
Yeah, absolutely. If I need that place, it's
49:20
aligned to you and show up there.
49:22
We can't all do everything, but we could all do something.
49:25
I know that's been used a lot lately, but it's so true, So
49:28
true. All right, so talk to me about
49:31
your, I talk a lot to women who about embracing their layers,
49:34
all the pieces and parts of their story, the make up, who
49:37
they are, the parts we love, the parts we don't love.
49:39
We as women carry so much shame, so much guilt, all these things
49:43
we do to ourself. Going back to what you were
49:44
talking about with perfection earlier, we put these
49:47
unrealistic standards on US based on these expectations
49:51
everyone else has expressed. Instead of just getting really
49:55
curious and rather than judgmental about, OK, what are
50:00
these spaces and places that are getting in my way of me fully
50:03
embracing who I am believe, knowing my value for, you know,
50:07
forgiving myself, getting rid of that shame narrative, stop
50:11
feeling guilty, all those things.
50:13
I feel, you know, for you to really be able to show up in the
50:16
world as healthy and authentically as you can, you
50:18
got to get to a place where you can embrace and acknowledge all
50:21
those things. So talk to me about your layers
50:24
journey and, and how you feel like that is unfolded for you
50:27
and you and being able to really get to that point with all
50:31
that's happened in your life. Right, right.
50:35
Oh my gosh, Melissa, they're they're let me let me quickly go
50:38
through some high, high and low points of my of my career.
50:43
OK, so that'll, you know, lead your followers to understand
50:47
your listeners to understand you know how I got here.
50:50
So with the go go sports girls in 2015.
50:54
So I hung in there for five long years and it was very hard, but
50:58
I knew I was right. Walmart picked up my my brand.
51:02
So that really got the the wheels turning right and the
51:06
motion and it was just snowballing.
51:09
In 2016, my my business was acquired by a large company
51:13
called Jazwares. It seems like it would be
51:17
awesome. At that point, they were going
51:19
to relaunch the line of dolls, removed everything from Walmart.
51:22
Walmart was on board with it all.
51:25
And then they got cold feet. They hired, I had a team at Jazz
51:29
Wears of about 10 people about, you know, I mean, I think it was
51:33
nine women and one man. And then they hired 2 new guys.
51:38
And they weren't convinced that the true girl empowerment
51:43
product would work because it's never been done before and they
51:47
didn't want to be the first. So they returned the
51:50
intellectual property to me at no charge, which was they did
51:54
the right thing. It was, you know, hard, but it
51:57
was the best breakup ever. So that's when I, you know, I,
52:01
you know, and then COVID hit and then whatever.
52:03
And that's when I realized my journey has been more than a
52:05
doll. Yeah.
52:06
And that's when I started writing my book.
52:10
And that took quite a while. So my book More than a Doll, and
52:16
it's I, I didn't stop there either.
52:20
When Biden got into the admin, you know, into office, he
52:24
immediately created the Gender Policy Council and I started
52:30
working with them and I did that for the last four years.
52:34
So that was, you know, when it came to policy on toys and media
52:39
and publishing. So I feel like I, I really did a
52:43
lot with that. I did a study with the Geena
52:45
Davis Institute and how diversity, equity and inclusion
52:51
is related to toys and marketing and advertising.
52:55
It's a fantastic study. It's on our my website, it's on
52:58
their website. It really tells a lot.
53:02
So I, I just won't stop advocating for women and girls
53:06
because, you know, deep in my heart and my soul, I know that,
53:10
you know, women were born to change the world.
53:13
Yeah. That's bottom line.
53:17
You know that is the bottom line.
53:19
Yeah. And you didn't allow that
53:20
disruption or disappointment derail you.
53:24
You just you moved into a new iteration, a new season, saw all
53:27
the possibilities got to, you know, have a voice and space and
53:32
influence in these really impactful pockets that make a
53:37
really important far reaching decisions.
53:42
Yeah, it's important to be able to pivot, right?
53:46
And a lot of times those pivots, it takes a, it takes a while to
53:50
figure out which way am I going to go.
53:52
But it is important to always be able to pivot.
53:57
And I try to remind myself because what I do is not easy.
54:01
It's not easy at all. I mean, there are a lot of, you
54:05
know, I've been called a man hater.
54:07
I even called a, you know, like I'm like, I don't hate that.
54:11
And I just. Just wanted to have a place at
54:14
the table too. Exactly.
54:17
I'm like, God, I mean, I get, I get hate mail.
54:20
I get, you know, people, it's just, it's, it's, you know,
54:24
there are just so many, you know, a few nasty ones, but so
54:28
many that are amazing, that want to do great work.
54:31
So I feel that that outnumbers the nasty, right?
54:36
We can't let the nasty get in the way.
54:38
So yes, but there there's, there's always a, you know,
54:42
there's always a pivot that needs to take place.
54:44
You know, we all know that in life.
54:46
It's just which direction. Yeah, I love that.
54:49
I love that explanation. I think it's so important to
54:51
circle back around to this isn't about getting rid of anybody.
54:55
It's about making room for all of us.
54:58
And all of us have the same opportunity and impact and
55:00
influence and get riding of this idea of scarcity and fear around
55:05
that. And it really comes down to the
55:06
end of the day, there are actions that just don't want to
55:09
give up power. They just don't want to give up
55:11
power. I mean, just call it what it is.
55:14
And and they're not interested in sharing.
55:16
It's working for them. And but it's hurting most of the
55:20
rest of the population because it's a small faction it's
55:23
working for. And and so being willing to be
55:27
the disruptors and being willing to speak the truth, but also
55:31
speaking the truth to the fact. This isn't about anybody trying
55:34
to get rid of anybody else. This is simply about making room
55:38
for all of us, because if we're going to be as healthy and
55:42
cohesive and powerful in the best way that we can be, it
55:47
requires all of. US.
55:52
Yeah, very well. Yes, so good.
55:54
Thank you so much for that. All right, you have learned to
55:58
do this. You live so well what I call
56:00
feel. Finding empowerment, embracing
56:03
layers. You have found your empowerment.
56:05
You've embraced your layers. You live authentically out of
56:08
that. Talk to me about the impact that
56:10
has had on your relationship with yourself as well as your
56:14
relationships with other people. Like OK, say that again my like
56:21
the. Your ability to live out, feel,
56:24
you've lived that out, finding empowerment, embracing layers.
56:26
You have found your empowerment. You've embraced your layers.
56:29
You know your value. So talk to me about that impact,
56:33
being able to do that, making that shift that you did many
56:36
years ago to live out of your own expectations versus others.
56:39
What that's done in terms of your relationship with yourself
56:43
and how you feel about yourself and then in turn how that it
56:46
impacts your relationships with other people.
56:49
Yeah. You know what it it, it is
56:50
interesting. I get it.
56:52
It has been very healthy for me to be able to, you know, express
56:59
myself in this way and something that is so important to me.
57:03
I think it's been really, you know, healthy for my children to
57:08
see, you know, their mom fighting for something and
57:12
passionate about something. Yeah.
57:15
I think with my husband, he's been super supportive.
57:20
But did we have our arguments? Of course, because I wasn't
57:24
making a lot of money. But I would always say I'm like,
57:28
but I'm trying to change the world.
57:30
There has to be some value in that, right?
57:32
You know? But that being said, you know,
57:35
you, you need money, you know, you know, to, to, to live too.
57:39
So I understand where he was coming from it, you know, at
57:43
that point when our kids were little.
57:45
Yeah, when it when it comes to, you know, some people like when
57:50
I, I had, you know, some men that I know read my book and
57:55
come up to me and just say, Oh my gosh, I am giving this to
57:59
every man I know every man. And you know, surprising to me,
58:04
I'm like, oh, wow, thank you. Right.
58:08
You know, and I've I've, but I and I've had women, you know, of
58:11
course women really relate, relate to my book.
58:15
But, but I, but I've also had, you know, some people who don't
58:20
agree with me, you know, who have said what I'm doing is
58:24
ridiculous, you know, that women have a role in this world and
58:28
men have a role. Yeah, I mean, and those people,
58:32
I'm like, okay, yeah, I, I don't really need to, you know, talk
58:37
to you or because that's the way you feel.
58:39
That's good, you know, and that's your prerogative.
58:43
But yeah, I've had, you know, more support than not and more
58:49
positive that has come out of this relation, you know, this
58:52
with relationships, you know, with my my journey than not.
58:56
But yeah, there have been some that you know.
59:00
Yeah, it, it, it hasn't. You know they don't.
59:03
They like the way things have been set up in the past.
59:08
And, you know, they don't like change.
59:11
You know, frankly I'm I'm trying to create change.
59:14
Yeah. And I think it's so important
59:17
that we learn the importance of like, there's just people,
59:20
you're not going to change their minds, they don't want to
59:21
change. So you don't waste your energy
59:23
there. You don't need to wait, you
59:25
know, say OK and move on. I think it's so important to
59:28
release that in that sense of responsibility that sometimes we
59:32
as women feel to change people's minds or convince them to do or
59:36
believe what we're believing. I'm like, you can bang yourself
59:39
ahead of against the wall for a long time trying to do that.
59:42
Not get anywhere. We're not expend your energy
59:44
into places and spaces that are ready for you and welcoming for
59:47
you and waiting for you to show up.
59:49
So thank you. Exactly.
59:50
Yeah. Thank you so much for that.
59:52
All right, We are winding down here in our conversation.
59:55
Share with me 5 activities that nourish you.
1:00:00
Five activities that nourish me. Oh my gosh, one activity I'll
1:00:06
you know, my all my children are adult children and I love, love,
1:00:11
love being with them and my husband and they are just like
1:00:16
so fun. So that totally nourishes me,
1:00:21
that my girlfriends, they nourish me all the time.
1:00:27
I don't know what I would do without my girlfriends.
1:00:31
And now I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go into sports now.
1:00:34
I love to play sports. I love paddle, I love to ride my
1:00:39
bike. I love to golf.
1:00:42
That really helps me. I love to cook, that nourishes
1:00:46
me. And the other thing I love to
1:00:48
do, I love to listen to books. I don't read as much as I used
1:00:52
to, but I get a lot more information from listening just
1:00:57
because, again, I'm, I'm active. I can go on a walk or I can cook
1:01:04
and listen to a book. So I can do two things at once.
1:01:07
Yeah. So I would say those are the,
1:01:10
that is what nourishes me. So that's a good question
1:01:14
because I want to do them all right now.
1:01:16
I know, I know, but it's and it's also when you name those
1:01:18
things that it's like you're intentional about making sure
1:01:21
you're including them in your thesis and places when you when
1:01:24
you bring them to the attention. I love the nuance that is
1:01:27
involved in those activities, too.
1:01:29
There's athletic things, there's contemplative things, there's
1:01:32
learning and curiosity things, there's cooking and nourishing
1:01:36
things. There's a full gamut of things,
1:01:38
and I think that's such a great example of the nuance that
1:01:41
exists within all of us and what comes and what's possible when
1:01:45
we don't put limits on that. I love that.
1:01:48
So beautiful. All right, because.
1:01:50
You know what, Melissa? Really good.
1:01:51
Because back to what you said, like your daughters, they're all
1:01:54
full humans. We're all so complex.
1:01:57
And when we start pigeonhole holing people, that's when
1:02:00
problems start. Yeah, yeah, 100 percent, 100%.
1:02:03
It's actually kind of simple in concept, but we just have not
1:02:07
been able to get the world to come along into it in actual
1:02:11
application. But we're not giving up, still
1:02:13
working everyday. All right, 5 words on how you
1:02:17
want to feel the next six months.
1:02:20
Oh God, yeah. Like some relief.
1:02:23
I Yeah. Touché.
1:02:30
Some relief, Yeah. Yeah, You know, not exhausted,
1:02:35
you know, I think, you know, contentment in our, in our
1:02:40
world, that would be nice. You know, joy, of course.
1:02:45
Doesn't everyone want to feel joy and healthy, you know, just,
1:02:51
you know, hope hoping, you know, our our culture can stay, you
1:02:57
know, physically and mentally, you know, healthy and not, you
1:03:02
know, go underwater. So and you know, I wish that for
1:03:05
everybody actually, I you know, we need all need to stay strong
1:03:09
and and that's another one strength.
1:03:11
I just, I, it is amazing how much strength I feel like I tap
1:03:16
into and how much more we all have, right?
1:03:19
So we need to dig deeper and dig deeper and dig deeper, yeah, and
1:03:23
find that strength. There's so much within us that's
1:03:26
possible when we're willing to tap into it.
1:03:28
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. All right.
1:03:30
Share with people where they can find you, follow you get access
1:03:34
to your resources, your book. And this will also be on our
1:03:38
website at embracinglayers.com on our resources page.
1:03:41
OK, awesome. It's, you know, my website,
1:03:45
jodievandenorgar.com or I have, you know, I write for Miss
1:03:49
Magazine. I, I write on sub stack.
1:03:52
I, you know, LinkedIn, Instagram.
1:03:55
Those are probably my two biggest ones.
1:03:58
Yeah, should be, should be, you know, a comment, a question I'd
1:04:03
be happy to answer. OK.
1:04:05
All right, love that. And final thoughts you'd like to
1:04:08
leave with our listeners today. What's a final?
1:04:11
Thought yeah, stay strong and stand tall.
1:04:16
So good. Jodi Bondi Nurgaard, thank you
1:04:19
so much for joining me today. I could talk to you all day.
1:04:22
You give me so much hope. I love your story.
1:04:25
What you're doing and how you show up in the world is so
1:04:27
important. Keep fighting the good fight and
1:04:30
and take care of yourself along the way.
1:04:33
I think that it it's more of that of just and not losing
1:04:37
hope, not losing sight and knowing that there's people like
1:04:40
you out in the world every day showing up and, and that spirit
1:04:45
that you have and that sense of commitment that you have comes
1:04:50
from so deep inside of you. Thank you so much for being with
1:04:53
me for sharing this time. Listeners, keep showing up for
1:04:57
yourselves every day. You're worth it.
1:05:00
You're valuable. You get to choose and and don't
1:05:04
give up when you feel tired, when you feel more up, take some
1:05:06
time out, take some time to rest and then get back in and bring
1:05:10
other women with you. Let's do this together.
1:05:12
Take good care of yourselves and we'll see you here next time on
1:05:15
the field podcast. Hello and thank you so much for
1:05:19
being with us today on this episode of the Feel Podcast.
1:05:24
If you would like more information on how you can apply
1:05:28
these talking points that I share with our guests in each
1:05:31
episode to your own life, really utilize this Feel framework.
1:05:37
Go to embracinglayers.com, fill out our contact form and let's
1:05:41
set up a free 30 minute consultation to talk about how
1:05:46
you can start living your most authentic, organic, healthy,
1:05:51
feel fueled life. Thanks again for being with us
1:05:55
today. We'll be back to you soon with
1:05:57
another episode here on The Feel Pot.