Latest / The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten / OCPD: Are You Rigid As Fuck?

Transcript

OCPD: Are You Rigid As Fuck? · The Dr. Psych Mom Show with clinical psychologist Dr. Samantha Rodman Whiten

• 0:05
  Hi everybody and welcome to the doctors.
• 0:07
  Psych mom show today, we're going to discuss ocpd which most
• 0:11
  people don't even know. Is a real thing or have never
• 0:14
  heard of and frequently mistake for OCD before we get there.
• 0:19
  The next episode is going to be subscriber only but I have not
• 0:22
  yet got jolted with inspiration for that one so while I can
• 0:26
  assure you it will be fascinating.
• 0:28
  I don't know what the hell it will be.
• 0:29
  So why don't you just bet on it being good or that you like one
• 0:33
  of the other proceeding? On episodes and subscribe and
• 0:39
  also join my Facebook group always.
• 0:41
  Because a lot of people like to talk about stuff like ocpd and
• 0:45
  sex and whatever. Just kidding, I haven't done
• 0:49
  this one on ocpd yet, but I'm sure they'll be talking about it
• 0:51
  when I do anyhow. So what's ocpd ocpd is as you
• 0:58
  could tell from the title when you are rigid as fuck.
• 1:01
  But how can this manifest? So these are people that get
• 1:05
  really into like rules moral codes, really?
• 1:09
  Any kind of code, they are into doing the right thing in the
• 1:13
  right way, at the right time and this often makes them
• 1:16
  insufferable. So this is obsessive-compulsive
• 1:19
  personality disorder. So there's various clusters of
• 1:23
  personality disorders or there used to be.
• 1:25
  I don't know if we do that anymore, it doesn't really
• 1:27
  matter my job. I'm in private practice DSM.
• 1:30
  Could be whatever. You know.
• 1:32
  But the the it used to be that there was Which is the weird
• 1:36
  personality disorders, the ones where you're kind of odd and you
• 1:38
  don't fit in socially like schizotypal, then there's
• 1:41
  cluster B, which everybody knows about is the dramatic one.
• 1:44
  So narcissistic, histrionic. And borderline everybody knows
• 1:47
  those, then cluster C is stuff like avoid independent and this
• 1:52
  one ocpd. So these aren't remember where
• 1:56
  they're clustered how they're closer.
• 1:57
  You could Google it but these ones make you very it's real
• 2:03
  difficult to deal with people you know.
• 2:05
  Oh, and not in like the cute way.
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  Kind of like if you're borderline or narcissistic,
• 2:09
  you're really Charming at first. This is not a cute disorder.
• 2:12
  It's not cute at all. So what it does is it makes you
• 2:15
  super rigid. It's not OCD where you have
• 2:18
  obsessions and compulsions. Like you have to wash your hands
• 2:21
  a lot or you keep thinking about, you know, whether or not
• 2:25
  you're meant to be in your relationship, that's
• 2:27
  relationship OCD or whatever, that's just intrusive thoughts
• 2:31
  and that's compulsions, that stuff responds, well to Prozac
• 2:34
  and Exposure therapy with response, prevention.
• 2:37
  Where you either imagine the bad thing or you actually stop
• 2:41
  yourself from doing the thing. Like, if your thing is washing
• 2:44
  your hands, you stop yourself from washing.
• 2:45
  Your hands until your anxiety, Peaks and decreases.
• 2:47
  Anyway, a form of exposure therapy, and I'm not saying it's
• 2:50
  easy to treat OCD by any stretch, but it's not a
• 2:54
  personality disorder. So it doesn't pervade every
• 2:56
  single aspect of your interactions with others, in the
• 3:00
  same way that ocpd or any of the PDS do because their
• 3:04
  personalities, A t disorders. So an obsessive-compulsive
• 3:08
  personality disorder person is going to be super rigid they're
• 3:13
  really into being on time they're really into being
• 3:15
  Frugal. They're really it doesn't have
• 3:18
  to be everything but it's most things they're really into a
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  moral code. They want to do the right thing
• 3:23
  all the time. They want you to do the right
• 3:25
  thing all the time. They don't want to be corrected.
• 3:28
  It's their way or the highway not in the way like casually,
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  like, people that are into themselves like this person.
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  It's extremely upset if they are not allowed to follow their
• 3:38
  rigid routine. So if they get up at six in the
• 3:41
  morning and somehow their alarm went off and they woke up at
• 3:44
  6:02, they are going to freak the fuck out.
• 3:47
  Like they are not going to be it's not going to be able,
• 3:49
  you're not gonna be able to deal with them.
• 3:51
  So this sort of obviously as many disorders are there was a
• 3:56
  genetic loading and there's also like the house that somebody
• 3:59
  grew up in if they were raised to be super super rigid then
• 4:03
  they you know make turn In into this to, and probably a parent
• 4:07
  is like this as well. So it's nature and nurture, if
• 4:10
  you're this kind of person and you grew up with a lot of
• 4:12
  restrictions and rules, then you really just think that that is
• 4:15
  the way that the world works best and there's a lot of of,
• 4:20
  you know, narcissism in this disorder, it may not be classic
• 4:24
  narcissism but it's narcissistic in the way that they feel that
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  their way is the only right way and that it's much more about
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  their focus more on. And the routines and the the
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  productivity than they are on the relationship with the
• 4:41
  person. So somebody with cluster B
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  disorder like borderline or narcissistic, they can
• 4:48
  understand that the relationship is Paramount.
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  They can under duress so they could be very Charming.
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  They could be very sweet. Somebody with ocpd is not
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  usually Charming or sweet because they're too stressed out
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  there all they have to follow their rigid routine.
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  They feel no matter What they do not feel that it's possible to
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  not follow this routine but still have an efficient
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  effective life. So if you recognize this in your
• 5:16
  partner, or your parent or yourself, I mean obviously,
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  let's tackle when it's not you first.
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  So when it's not you it's extremely difficult to live with
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  this kind of person. If you grew up with a parent who
• 5:30
  has ocpd, they also may have had like religious stuff going on,
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  where you had to I believe the same thing, there was only one
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  right way and they got very upset if you challenged it they
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  don't like to be challenged or questioned in any way and it can
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  be very alienating to grow up with a parent who doesn't want
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  to know any part of you and it's just fixated on that you do the
• 5:53
  right thing. That looks the right way and
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  then you you only talk about it in a certain way.
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  Most kids that grow up with a parent like this, end up
• 6:01
  feeling, pretty lonely. When interacting with that pair.
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  Rent, because it's so obvious that it's not about you.
• 6:07
  It's about whatever they need to happen.
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  Getting done. So this could be very hard to
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  grow up in such a household. Like, similarly, it could be
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  very hard to be married to such a person obviously, because
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  whether or not you have X amount of gas in the tank that you're
• 6:22
  supposed to have or whether or not you leave seven minutes to
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  get to the doctor's appointment. Instead of eight minutes, this
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  becomes a matter of major importance and if and if you are
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  belief system, He's from their belief system or changes over
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  time to very then, that is also going to be taken as a personal
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  offense, and everything is very stressful.
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  So, that's the key feeling when you're interacting with such a
• 6:48
  person. As you could see in my linked
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  article about a woman who wrote in that her husband, I do see
• 6:54
  PG. So the the point here is that it
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  is extremely difficult to live with these people.
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  But there are things that you could do to make it better and
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  some of those involve your own boundaries.
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  So the first thing before you even get, there is to understand
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  that this is what you're dealing with.
• 7:12
  Because if this sounds right to you, then you could feel very
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  validated. You could be like oh my God it's
• 7:17
  not that I myself. Am so Joe fuck up or so lazy or
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  a slob or whatever? It's that this person has like
• 7:24
  impossible, rigid standards and standards and are
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  extraordinarily perfectionistic and frequently not actually very
• 7:33
  efficient. They think Very efficient to
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  people with ocpd but in reality their routines and stuff end up
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  a taking more time than other more.
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  You know, expeditious ways of dealing with things and Bea.
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  They are ruining a relationship. So a man with ocpd that really
• 7:51
  wants to save time all the time and save money all the time.
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  I end up divorced too, which is a big expenditure of time and
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  money because the wife can't even deal with him so he can't
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  even see. He can't see the forest for the
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  trees and that is really the key.
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  Classic feeling of OCD of ocpd, rather is not being able to see
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  the forest for the trees, the trees are so important.
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  That you lose sight of the fact that you know, the forest is
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  burning and by which I mean the relationship, you know, any
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  interpersonal relationship that is on the line here.
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  So first you got to realize that this is what you're dealing with
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  which can in and of itself, be very validating.
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  Particularly since many people have not even heard of this
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  disorder because it is not super common and it's also Very
• 8:35
  socially condone. So these people get jobs, where
• 8:38
  efficiency is prized and yeah, there are an asshole and they
• 8:42
  can be rigid. Bought they're good at the job.
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  Those spreadsheets always perfect.
• 8:47
  And so they do rise through the ranks in some way, certainly not
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  as they would if they were nicer and easier to deal with and had
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  more social ability, but they do have jobs and they do, you know,
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  do well. And especially when the job
• 9:03
  involves being perfectionistic, like, A doctor or really a
• 9:07
  surgeon, something like that. A doctor, you know, usually has
• 9:10
  to have more bedside manner talk to people.
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  But if it's like some really mix specialized thing where you have
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  to do everything perfectly, then this is your person to do it and
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  it is very hard to feel. Like you're not the problem.
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  When this person who supposedly gets everything, right?
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  All the time is telling you that you are way is stupid and Your
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  way is ineffective and inefficient etcetera.
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  And they frequently get very angry these people because they
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  cannot tolerate this order. So, if you lead to some kind of
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  disorder, even just by being slow or something or not on The
• 9:49
  Mark with something, here we go. It's a World War 3, you know.
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  So this type of personality is very difficult to deal with
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  understanding it is the first. And the second is that you have
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  to learn to set very firm, boundaries in terms of what
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  Behavior you will tolerate, and not tolerate.
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  And so, for example, I will not tolerate you raising your voice
• 10:07
  at me and then you got to follow through by for example, leaving
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  if they the room or the apartment or whatever if they do
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  raise their voice at you. So because they are so rigid,
• 10:17
  these people can very easily learn when something is always
• 10:22
  going to go badly for them, they can learn not to do it because
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  it ruins their day. I've seen a view if they have to
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  talk with, you have some kind of an interaction of fight and
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  you're not going to do. They want if they yell at you,
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  you know, they're eventually going to learn potentially not
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  to yell at you because there is a reason, the reason isn't that
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  you get upset they're not going to think of it like that.
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  But the reason is that they're still not going to get to do
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  what they want to do. So if you are going to be late
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  and you are husband yells at you getting here, you idiot.
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  You're going to be late and you say we talked about that you
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  can't call me an idiot and then You don't get up and you really
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  don't get up, you know, I mean that's going to upset them but
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  then long term they're going to realize.
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  If I call her an idiot you really not going to get in the
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  car. Holy shit.
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  That's this is terrible. So they can learn not to do
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  that. So learning is hard when you are
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  so activated. But over time, they can learn
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  that. It is really never going to go
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  their way, but it takes a strong person to really not capitulate.
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  And when somebody's acting like a whirling dervish around you to
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  not, just get up. Do whatever the hell they're
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  doing. That's why couples counseling
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  can really help you to assert your boundaries and to stand
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  strong. Because otherwise, you can be
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  swept up in the tide of tremendous, urgency and anxiety,
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  and rigidity and just get into the car even if the person
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  called you an idiot. But that's not how you want to
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  live your life, right? So the firm boundaries can help
• 11:56
  and then also if this person all personality disorders are not
• 12:00
  super easy to treat because they are more pervasive but they are
• 12:04
  all true. Nibble on some level people are
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  changeable, you know, I again, I would be in the wrong
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  profession. If I did not believe that they
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  used to think of borderline personality was not changeable.
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  It is, you know? And now narcissistic personality
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  is the boogie man of the moment and that's changeable to people
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  work on that constantly as long as they are not with the
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  therapist. Who thinks that a diagnosis of
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  NPD are narcissistic personality disorder is is the end of the
• 12:29
  world and and death sentence then yeah of course, people work
• 12:33
  on being self-absorbed. All the time in therapy.
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  That's like a major part of evolving as a human being and
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  same with ocpd. People can learn to be more
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  flexible if they have the motivation to do so.
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  And a lot of motivation comes from thinking, you're going to
• 12:47
  lose your family and because your wife or your husband is
• 12:50
  going to leave you and with parents, did you know, you got a
• 12:55
  little bit less traction there. So if you're an adult child of a
• 12:58
  parent with ocpd, these are these are frequently situations
• 13:02
  where people try to go lower contact because it is so
• 13:05
  Stressful to interact with this person that it's just not worth
• 13:08
  it. But again, if the person is
• 13:11
  motivated enough to respond and change in certain ways,
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  sometimes they can and people with ocpd need real direct
• 13:20
  communication. Things like you cannot raise
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  your voice above a speaking tone or I will have to leave this
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  house and this meal. So if it happens one time they
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  do now the problem Is that a lot of people try to not hurt the
• 13:37
  person's feelings? Listen, this person does not
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  have as many feelings as you, the person whose feelings are
• 13:43
  getting hurt. This person's feelings are
• 13:45
  hidden below, the surface of lots, and lots of surface level
• 13:48
  anxiety. That's greeting so much noise
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  that you need to speak loudly and firmly to get through it so
• 13:54
  much. Like with narcissist.
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  I always advise. You're going to set a boundary
• 13:58
  do not worry about hurting the person's feelings.
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  Just be very, very clear. This is not a little shrinking
• 14:04
  violet person. You have to say something super
• 14:07
  clear in order to give them any shot of hearing you, not the way
• 14:12
  you would want somebody to talk to you not that way.
• 14:15
  So a different way that you think is rude that you would
• 14:19
  feel was rude. If somebody talk to you like
• 14:21
  that, that is how you have to set boundaries with these more
• 14:24
  difficult personality disorders, such as ocpd or a narcissistic
• 14:28
  personality. You need to say things, like I
• 14:31
  will not tolerate you speaking to me like that, you can Use the
• 14:35
  word idiot. The that's very clear, you know?
• 14:38
  And if the person does use the word idiot in this example, you
• 14:41
  would have to leave. You would have to leave the room
• 14:43
  or do whatever you say you're going to do.
• 14:45
  Now, what have you are the person with ocpd?
• 14:48
  Well, then you've recognized yourself and now it is.
• 14:51
  If you have the, the insight and the psychological mindedness, as
• 14:57
  we call it, the awareness of psychological variables and
• 15:00
  interest in them, to be listening to this podcast, or
• 15:02
  somebody sent it to you, and you've listened to it then.
• 15:05
  You know, you can stop this by working deeply in therapy on why
• 15:09
  you are so rigid it's likely a combination of genetics.
• 15:12
  You had a rigid parent and the fact that you were raised by
• 15:14
  that rigid parent you know and so that's nature and nurture and
• 15:18
  if you realize that this you are going to ruin your life EG your
• 15:23
  spouse is going to leave. Your kids are going to hate you
• 15:26
  by being so rigid. Then truly you can work on
• 15:29
  stopping frequently. Ironically it's by enacting some
• 15:32
  different sorts of rituals you. Like every Tuesday, I go to
• 15:36
  therapy and I bring a list of all the things that my wife got
• 15:39
  upset at me about and we go through them and we see what
• 15:41
  could I have done differently. That is a major step to a lot of
• 15:44
  people to some people that sounds like very wrote and that
• 15:49
  it would be unappealing. But to somebody who thinks in
• 15:53
  this way that is feels like you're getting something done
• 15:55
  and truly you are. And the other obvious downside
• 15:59
  to having this disorder is a profound lack of empathy.
• 16:01
  So I refer you back to my empathy podcast.
• 16:05
  Which could be very useful, because if you have this issue,
• 16:08
  it's almost 100% that somebody in your life has been like, why
• 16:12
  don't you see what I mean? Can't you see?
• 16:16
  You're hurting my feelings or something.
• 16:18
  To indicate that you have a profound lack of empathy and
• 16:20
  perspective-taking is tough. When you are constantly suffused
• 16:24
  by tremendous simmering anxiety, almost rage over the fact that
• 16:29
  nobody's as efficient as you. It's a hard place to be in.
• 16:32
  Of course, this isn't real, it isn't real that you're the only
• 16:35
  You know, efficient person on the planet and it isn't real.
• 16:37
  That you have the best possible routines out of any of the
• 16:41
  billions of people in the world. You have figured out how to get
• 16:44
  out in the morning. Efficiently more than anyone
• 16:47
  else. Could look, that's a not real,
• 16:49
  you know with work. You can see that that is not
• 16:52
  real and that as a lot of anxiety is it's a defense
• 16:55
  mechanism against a profound fear of loss of control.
• 17:00
  So that you give yourself an illusion that you're in control
• 17:04
  to beat. Back fear of, not being in
• 17:07
  control because none of us are in control.
• 17:09
  I'm sitting in my car right now in a meteor, could strike me
• 17:11
  dead from the heavens, right? So, since none of us have any
• 17:14
  control people with value in various ways, try to work
• 17:19
  against that, you know, by thinking about various other
• 17:22
  positive things such as well, I may die at any moment but I know
• 17:27
  I can get out in the morning and 16 and a half minutes so they
• 17:31
  don't articulated with the, you know, fear of mortality.
• 17:34
  But that's really What it is. That's what most anxiety is, is
• 17:37
  a fear of loss of control, and then you create the illusion of
• 17:42
  control in various ways, frequently ways that upset other
• 17:46
  people because they make you into it an asshole to deal with.
• 17:49
  So if you, if this podcast resonates with you because you
• 17:54
  have somebody in your life like this, then it is also honestly a
• 17:57
  good idea to talk to your own therapist about processing, some
• 18:01
  of your resentment because again, these people are
• 18:03
  difficult to deal with and you have Your own resentment and
• 18:05
  there's reasons that you pick to have these people in your life
• 18:08
  or else you didn't pick if they were parents in which case,
• 18:10
  you're processing, family of origin issues.
• 18:13
  And or if you're married to such an individual and couples
• 18:16
  counseling, may be very useful because it may be a time that
• 18:19
  they say, well shit I'm here, I have to be here, I'm here for 45
• 18:23
  minutes so I want to get ways to deal with this and and some of
• 18:27
  them may be beating back the defensiveness originally, but
• 18:31
  eventually it is likely that people can meet.
• 18:35
  In some sort of middle you know there's all kinds of middle in
• 18:37
  the middle just has to be maybe instead of you giving 99% of
• 18:42
  them, giving one percent, you could end up giving 75% of they
• 18:44
  give 25% but that's going to feel a hell of a lot better in
• 18:47
  your marriage. Of course 50/50 is wonderful but
• 18:50
  you know, that's math, that's not reality.
• 18:53
  Any change would feel significant if you're in this
• 18:55
  situation. Alright so I hope that you
• 18:57
  enjoyed this podcast on the introduction to a personality
• 19:00
  disorder that you probably did not know and I will talk to
• 19:04
  everybody sooner. And please subscribe.