Latest / No Shrinking Violets Podcast for Women / Midlife, Menopause, And The Power of Gathering

Transcript

Midlife, Menopause, And The Power of Gathering · No Shrinking Violets Podcast for Women

• 0:00
  Cheryl: I said, okay, well, what can I do that's completely different?
• 0:02
  Cheryl: And it's just be me, which is terrifying to be vulnerable and to admit um, you know, if that if you make a mistake or to laugh at yourself or to be self-deprecating or to not put yourself out there as if you have it all together.
• 0:17
  Cheryl: And that was what I was trying to do, probably for all the years of my life.
• 0:24
  Mary: For centuries, the phrase shrinking violet was used to diminish women, to suggest we were meant to be small and meek.
• 0:31
  Mary: But in nature, violets are anything but weak.
• 0:34
  Mary: They're resilient, beautiful, and essential to the ecosystem.
• 0:38
  Mary: Hi, I'm Mary Rothwell, licensed therapist, and each week I sit down with women who remind us that being compared to a violet isn't an insult.
• 0:46
  Mary: It's a testament to strength, endurance, and the power of taking up space and living by your true nature.
• 0:52
  Mary: If you're ready to stop shrinking and start thriving, you're in the right place.
• 0:57
  Mary: Hey violets, welcome to the show.
• 1:01
  Mary: When I was navigating perimenopause, I was also navigating a divorce and a new job.
• 1:07
  Mary: At the time, I figured any emotional ups and downs were a result of those huge life changes.
• 1:12
  Mary: I mean, I had a few hot flashes, but they, for me, were predictable.
• 1:16
  Mary: They flared up only in response to caffeine and alcohol.
• 1:19
  Mary: And although my alcohol intake wasn't that high, I did have caffeine every single day.
• 1:24
  Mary: So my mornings were warmed by the predictable flushes of heat and I dressed in layers.
• 1:29
  Mary: It was later, after more intense life issues, that I experienced weight gain and started to have wicked insomnia.
• 1:36
  Mary: Again, I attributed it to life events.
• 1:39
  Mary: It wasn't until I shifted from working with college students to working with women in midlife and started to hear stories from friends that I recognized that I was likely struggling with more physical and emotional issues brought on by my waning hormones.
• 1:53
  Mary: In spite of this, I honestly never felt dread or frustration with most of the issues.
• 1:58
  Mary: Well, except the weight gain.
• 2:00
  Mary: That was helped by a new thyroid medication to a small degree, but I'm making adjustments beyond that.
• 2:05
  Mary: While there are a small percentage of women that have severe perimenopause issues, nearly all the time, shifts in nutrition, movement, and a different approach to sleep can improve issues drastically.
• 2:16
  Mary: Honestly, I love most things about this time of life.
• 2:20
  Mary: I'm through menopause, and in so many parts of life, I feel like I have a new sense of freedom.
• 2:24
  Mary: Ever since a friend of mine referred to menopause as a second spring, I have embraced that.
• 2:30
  Mary: And I have a feeling my guests today would agree that midlife for women is by no means the beginning of the end.
• 2:36
  Mary: Cheryl Dylan is a life coach, writer, and founder of Thunderful Experiences, where she helps women create midlife chapters that are joyful, vibrant, and intentional.
• 2:46
  Mary: Through her connected hearts membership, the uplift newsletter, and private coaching practice, Cheryl helps women cultivate a renewed sense of self and shape a midlife that feels purposeful, rooted, and beautifully their own.
• 2:58
  Mary: Welcome to No Shrinking Violet, Cheryl.
• 3:00
  Mary: Thank you.
• 3:01
  Mary: I'm so happy to be here.
• 3:03
  Mary: I have not talked about this topic for quite a while on here, so I am excited to talk about it a little bit again today because I spend so much of my time in my practice working with women in midlife.
• 3:14
  Mary: So I wondered if you could start today by just giving us a few highlights of your life that led you to create connected hearts and the other things that you're doing right now.
• 3:24
  Cheryl: Well, I've had a very interesting journey through life.
• 3:27
  Cheryl: And uh for the first uh maybe 11 years, I was in a corporate career as a recruiter.
• 3:34
  Cheryl: And then I've been working with my husband and partner for the past 17 years in our divorce mediation and coaching practice.
• 3:41
  Cheryl: And I've been helping our clients with the emotional aspects of such a significant life transition.
• 3:47
  Cheryl: In the last couple of years, I've been feeling a pull myself to wanting more joy in my life, um, having deeper friendships with women.
• 3:57
  Cheryl: Uh, really, uh, my experiences with women friends have been kind of terrifying, uh, to be honest.
• 4:03
  Cheryl: And I just really hang out more with my husband and uh some of our guy friends.
• 4:08
  Cheryl: Um, but I've always wanted a nice warm, supportive circle of women friends.
• 4:13
  Cheryl: Um, and because of where I am in midlife, seeing some relatives and other people I know uh getting much older, it's like shining a light on the fact that I must be doing the same.
• 4:26
  Cheryl: And I really want to be intentional about um what my life looks like, you know, for the next five, 10, 20 plus uh years.
• 4:36
  Cheryl: And I know that that all comes from setting the foundation now.
• 4:40
  Cheryl: And so the the connected hearts community really is the community that I was looking for and could never find.
• 4:47
  Cheryl: So I decided to build it myself.
• 4:50
  Cheryl: It is part personal growth using my background as a life coach.
• 4:55
  Cheryl: It's part conversations that are deeper than the surface uh with women, you know, instead of just the chit-chat talking about, you know, the traffic or the weather or the news, um, it's talking about more meaningful things that we're facing in our lives.
• 5:10
  Cheryl: And also there's some fun in there because I realize with all the heaviness in life, that that silly fun just kind of slips away.
• 5:19
  Cheryl: And um, and I think that's really key to making life vibrant.
• 5:23
  Cheryl: So um, so that's really a little bit about it.
• 5:27
  Cheryl: Um, I you know, I hope that makes sense, but uh, you know, every day is a new adventure.
• 5:31
  Cheryl: It's been a really interesting uh time in my own personal life.
• 5:36
  Cheryl: I've been speaking with a lot of other women who feel the same.
• 5:39
  Cheryl: And like I said, because there didn't seem to be something like this, I just said, well, I'll just make it.
• 5:47
  Cheryl: And that's really what's happening.
• 5:49
  Mary: Yeah, no, I love that.
• 5:50
  Mary: And that's really what has been the case for many of the guests that I have.
• 5:54
  Mary: They'll be in, and you mentioned corporate, they'll be in a job that's a corporate job or something that's much more typical nine to five.
• 6:01
  Mary: And as they get older, they realize that there is something that they just want to explore or they want to do or they want to create.
• 6:08
  Mary: And most of the time that changes the lives of other women.
• 6:12
  Mary: So, what I think is interesting is now my parents aren't living.
• 6:15
  Mary: If they were living, they'd be 99.
• 6:17
  Mary: But women like my mom's age, they never talked about menopause.
• 6:22
  Mary: I think there was kind of that pull yourself up by your bootstraps.
• 6:25
  Mary: If you're struggling with something, you don't talk about it.
• 6:28
  Mary: And I have seen really, this is really cool.
• 6:31
  Mary: I've seen such a change in women our age and a little bit, you know, probably starting now in their late 30s, where they recognize there's gonna be these changes happening.
• 6:42
  Mary: And I think by talking to each other and sharing our experiences, we help people sort of help each other get prepared.
• 6:51
  Mary: Do you find that that is some of what happens in your groups?
• 6:56
  Cheryl: I do.
• 6:56
  Cheryl: Um, the the age range of the women in my community are in their mid-50s to late 60s.
• 7:04
  Cheryl: And so just about all of us are past menopause.
• 7:09
  Cheryl: Um, but there are other things that are happening, you know, to us, our our moods, our uh our body, our appearance, um, just things that are more concerning to us, the worries that we might have.
• 7:23
  Cheryl: Um, so we're aligned with a lot of those things, and everybody's experiencing it differently.
• 7:29
  Cheryl: And I think, and some of and that then yet at the same time, some of us are experiencing it the same.
• 7:34
  Cheryl: And um, and these are things that maybe in the past we'd be embarrassed to even bring up.
• 7:41
  Cheryl: Uh, and it's not like you're gonna talk to your husband about it, and you know, the the internet really wasn't what it is now, there wasn't a lot of information about it.
• 7:50
  Cheryl: People just were silently suffering.
• 7:52
  Cheryl: And what I find is by being more vulnerable, if the space is safe, you know, we do have some guidelines and everything's confidential and there's just some rules of the road.
• 8:04
  Cheryl: Um, but if it's a safe environment, these women are wanting to talk about these things because they don't have anybody else to talk to and it they feel alone.
• 8:15
  Cheryl: And by discussing it together, we get ideas, we we feel less alone, we feel like we're more bonded uh together, that like we know things that no one else knows, and uh we're really supporting each other along the way.
• 8:30
  Cheryl: So it's refreshing because you know, at first glance you might think, well, how could you ever bring something like that up?
• 8:38
  Cheryl: Uh, you know, maybe talk about hormone replacement therapy or talk about what's going on with, you know, with your body, or talk about whether or not you should get some cosmetic filler or, you know, where do you go?
• 8:50
  Cheryl: And, you know, things like that.
• 8:51
  Cheryl: But um, I think by bringing it to the forefront in a safe environment, it really has so many benefits.
• 8:58
  Mary: Yeah, it's funny because you're talking about things that you might never talk to anybody else about.
• 9:02
  Mary: And I recently had a guest, and we were just talking about aging, and she said, Yeah, I found this chin hair.
• 9:08
  Mary: I never had chin hair before.
• 9:10
  Mary: And I finally mentioned it to a friend, and she was like, Oh yeah, I just plucked mine.
• 9:14
  Mary: So, you know, it's one of those things where we think we are we're mortified.
• 9:18
  Mary: It's we're the only person that is enduring this.
• 9:21
  Mary: And, you know, I remember also having a friend who who's a little bit older than me, and we were out to dinner and she had a hot flash, and I could see it.
• 9:28
  Mary: Like she turned red, she started sweating, and I was like, what is happening?
• 9:33
  Mary: And she was very embarrassed.
• 9:34
  Mary: I'm like, well, don't be embarrassed.
• 9:36
  Mary: Like you, you can't help that.
• 9:37
  Mary: So I think being able to now talk about this stuff.
• 9:41
  Mary: And the one thing that I love is I know you have a group that you meet in person.
• 9:46
  Mary: And one of the things that I see online is, first of all, that is something that came into our lives, right?
• 9:54
  Mary: At the age we are, we didn't grow up with the internet.
• 9:57
  Mary: So it can be really hard to kind of talk about that stuff sometimes in certain places because people can be really cruel.
• 10:08
  Mary: And I feel like when we can be in person, there is a different sense of respect, a different sense of kind of honoring the experience of other people.
• 10:21
  Cheryl: Yes, absolutely.
• 10:22
  Cheryl: And I agree with you.
• 10:24
  Cheryl: You know, there's been a lot happening in the world, probably since maybe right before the pandemic, some really big things.
• 10:32
  Cheryl: And some things that none of us ever thought would ever be happening in our lifetimes, and things that our brains really just can't even process.
• 10:40
  Cheryl: Um, and I've been feeling very nostalgic for the old days.
• 10:45
  Cheryl: I feel like I feel like my grandmother, you know, I miss those olden days where um where there were no phones and it was only interaction on a landline or it was only interaction in person.
• 10:57
  Cheryl: I'm missing, you know, board games and just the things that we used to do to socialize.
• 11:04
  Cheryl: The internet has brought a lot of um interesting new good good things, uh, but on the other side of that are also some not so fantastic things.
• 11:15
  Cheryl: And I really, really miss the in-person connection.
• 11:18
  Cheryl: And I feel like there's nothing that compares to it.
• 11:21
  Cheryl: And so it was important to me that my group be local, in person.
• 11:27
  Cheryl: We share the same energy in the same space, it's very intimate.
• 11:31
  Cheryl: Um, it does feel safer, it's cozy, and it really lets us put our guard down and not have to worry that something we're saying, either to your point, that some troll is gonna say something nasty, or that it's gonna wind up on all these other websites that we may never gave permission or that AI is listening, or you know, there's just something sort of sacred about being together in person in in the same space.
• 12:00
  Mary: Yeah.
• 12:01
  Mary: Well, and also I think when we see someone online, you don't see the whole thing.
• 12:06
  Mary: You see what they've edited.
• 12:07
  Mary: You know, before we hit record, I'll say we were talking about filters and you know, we don't see what someone looks like.
• 12:14
  Mary: But when you get into that space with other women, you start to see maybe um expressions or things that they may do that you're like, oh, like you get a real sense of who someone is.
• 12:26
  Mary: And I also feel like we, if we open ourselves to that in our friendships now.
• 12:32
  Mary: So you mentioned, you know, for you, there was there weren't always easy female friendships.
• 12:37
  Mary: And unfortunately, I think sometimes society sets us up for that, this competition or the judgment of someone else.
• 12:44
  Mary: And I think as we get to the age we're at now, I think partly we stop caring as much, but I think we also show up more authentically.
• 12:53
  Cheryl: Yes, I actually would say that I did and sometimes still do care a lot, but I have some good coaching tools.
• 13:02
  Cheryl: So I I remember to coach myself off the ledge and kind of get back to just be you, just be you.
• 13:09
  Cheryl: I think that for a lot of people, um, it you know, it's triggering.
• 13:13
  Cheryl: You get around certain people, and if they're insecure, you it brings out your insecurities, it kind of attract, you know, or if you're insecur insecure, you're gonna attract people into your life who are also insecure.
• 13:26
  Cheryl: It's gonna really bring out the worst in you.
• 13:28
  Cheryl: Um, I have lots of years of that, you know, and I won't bore you with all the details today, but but I recognized that it isn't just that I've attracted these horrible women.
• 13:38
  Cheryl: It's that it started with me.
• 13:40
  Cheryl: I didn't feel secure, I didn't have confidence.
• 13:44
  Cheryl: Um, I I was comparing myself to them and feeling like they were all better than me or, you know, prettier, or had something that I didn't have.
• 13:53
  Cheryl: Um, and it really was a terrible situation, you know, because I really got what I was putting out, you know, came right back.
• 13:59
  Cheryl: Um, and this year, what was so interesting, it actually started last year, is I figured if you keep doing what you're doing, you're gonna keep getting what you're getting.
• 14:09
  Cheryl: And I didn't want that.
• 14:11
  Cheryl: And so I said, okay, well, what can I do that's completely different?
• 14:15
  Cheryl: And it's just be me, which is terrifying to be vulnerable and to admit um, you know, if that if you make a mistake or to laugh at yourself or to be self-deprecating, or to not put yourself out there as if you have it all together.
• 14:30
  Cheryl: And that was what I was trying to do, probably for all the years of my life, pretend that uh everything's good.
• 14:36
  Cheryl: Now I show up warts and all.
• 14:39
  Cheryl: And I I feel like that has been um interesting.
• 14:46
  Cheryl: I feel more comfortable in my own shoes.
• 14:48
  Cheryl: I'm still nervous when I do that stuff, but it's more natural because it's who I am.
• 14:53
  Cheryl: And I've been able to attract other women who take that cue and then it gives them permission to do the same.
• 15:00
  Cheryl: And then we all feel like kindred spirits.
• 15:04
  Cheryl: So um it has made these friendships that I'm cultivating more authentic because I don't feel like any of us are pretending to be someone we're not.
• 15:13
  Cheryl: And I don't feel like any of us are afraid that if we reveal who we really are, that we're gonna be talked about or cast out, um, that actually it makes us very endearing and it makes us all feel like we're, you know, a big bunch of weirdos, you know, with our own stuff.
• 15:30
  Cheryl: But it's it's cool.
• 15:32
  Mary: Yeah.
• 15:32
  Mary: Well, and I think you bring up a good point.
• 15:35
  Mary: When we pretend to be what we think somebody wants us to be, and then they never know who we really are, that friendship or that affection or whatever we think might be there isn't true anyway.
• 15:46
  Mary: And once we can let that guard down, even if there might be some people that do kind of like raise an eyebrow, it's like you find your people.
• 15:55
  Mary: And it's very powerful when you have friends that truly see who you are and then you connect in that authentic way with them.
• 16:04
  Mary: I think that's pretty cool.
• 16:06
  Cheryl: I agree.
• 16:06
  Cheryl: I agree.
• 16:07
  Cheryl: And I think that, you know, I've always what I'm realizing about myself is I've always been this way, but I've hidden it.
• 16:13
  Cheryl: And I have kind of like rejected it about myself that, you know, I will say something out loud that someone else is thinking but would never say.
• 16:24
  Cheryl: And um, and so a lot of time, and sometimes I would say it and then I would look around and be like, oh, I shouldn't have said that, you know, because it it just didn't go over, but uh, but I was with the wrong people.
• 16:34
  Cheryl: Now I feel like by saying it, it's not like I'm their fearless leader.
• 16:39
  Cheryl: It's just that in a way it is demonstrating some leadership because it's letting all of them also see that it's great to just be you and it's okay to do it, um, even though for many of us it's really scary to do that.
• 16:56
  Cheryl: And I have these women now who I feel like they're my cheerleaders.
• 17:01
  Cheryl: They know that I'm stretching myself out of my comfort zone with a lot of the things I'm doing because I've been open about the fact that all these things are terrifying.
• 17:10
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 17:10
  Cheryl: And then after I do it, or if I write a newsletter and I say something about it, I'll get replies back with people saying, I'm so proud of you, or good for you, or that's awesome.
• 17:21
  Cheryl: And it's like not doing it for the accolade or the praise, but it sure is neat and gratifying to have people kind of rooting for me and hopefully, you know, I'm rooting, you know, they're seeing that I'm rooting for them back by what I'm sharing.
• 17:36
  Mary: Yeah.
• 17:37
  Mary: Well, the one thing I know you talk about is being your own best friend.
• 17:40
  Mary: And I think a lot of us say that.
• 17:42
  Mary: I'm I'm just I'm my own best friend, but I don't know that we really think about what that means.
• 17:47
  Mary: So when you say that or you help women cultivate that, what does that mean to you?
• 17:52
  Mary: What does that look like?
• 17:54
  Cheryl: That's a great question.
• 17:55
  Cheryl: You know, it means a lot of things.
• 17:57
  Cheryl: To me, it starts with do you love yourself?
• 18:01
  Cheryl: In other words, do you like to be in your own company?
• 18:04
  Cheryl: Uh, do you um do you trust yourself?
• 18:09
  Cheryl: Do you speak to yourself kindly?
• 18:11
  Cheryl: And there's an inner critic that we all have, and it's terrible.
• 18:17
  Cheryl: It says the most mean things to us.
• 18:19
  Cheryl: You know, it's like we are meaner to ourselves than anyone else could be mean to us.
• 18:23
  Cheryl: Oh, yeah.
• 18:24
  Cheryl: Um, and so that inner voice, you know, really being aware of what what is what are you saying to yourself?
• 18:32
  Cheryl: You know, what what are you hearing as your your your critic?
• 18:36
  Cheryl: If you can have an awareness of it, you can shift it.
• 18:40
  Cheryl: And if you start to make these little shifts in the way you speak to yourself, sometimes it's even out loud what you say.
• 18:47
  Cheryl: If you're apologizing in the beginning of every sentence, what are you apologizing?
• 18:51
  Cheryl: You know, I'm so sorry, and then you it's like you don't have to apologize for taking up space, you don't have to apologize for for speaking up.
• 18:58
  Cheryl: Um if you can make these little shifts in how you speak to yourself, it will make a big change in how you feel about yourself, your emotions.
• 19:09
  Cheryl: That will then make a big shift in the actions and the choices you make, which will then feed back to what you're saying to yourself.
• 19:18
  Cheryl: So I see it as a it's a a continuous loop.
• 19:21
  Cheryl: You know, if you are feeling like crap about yourself, you're gonna be making some pretty bad choices and feeling lousy.
• 19:28
  Cheryl: If you are cheering yourself on and you truly cherish yourself, you care about yourself, you're kind to yourself, that's gonna be your loop.
• 19:36
  Cheryl: And that's obviously a more empowering place to be.
• 19:40
  Cheryl: And I feel like if you have a great relationship with yourself, that's the foundation for all the other relationships in your life because you're not gonna be looking for other people to fill gaps.
• 19:54
  Cheryl: You've you've filled them all yourself, and you feel you feel great with who you are.
• 20:00
  Cheryl: So now you're naturally gonna attract more authentic relationships.
• 20:04
  Cheryl: You're gonna have people who are more calm around you, who don't feel like they have to perform or be somebody different.
• 20:11
  Cheryl: It just really is um, it's all starting with you, how you feel about yourself, how you treat yourself.
• 20:17
  Cheryl: And then, of course, there's the other ways you treat yourself, right?
• 20:20
  Cheryl: With your nutrition or with your exercise, um, or with what you say to yourself when you put on clothes and instead of telling yourself how horrible and fat and disgusting you look, you know, to um to maybe not say those things.
• 20:35
  Cheryl: I think it extends as far as buying clothing that you feel like a million bucks in so that you never get to that place where you're criticizing.
• 20:44
  Cheryl: Um, it's wearing the right clothes, it's doing your makeup in an age-appropriate way.
• 20:51
  Cheryl: For me, I only know how to do my hair one way, I only know how to put on makeup one way.
• 20:55
  Cheryl: It doesn't matter if I'm 20 or 55, you know, but as you get older and your body's changing and your skin is changing, you know, you a different skincare routine maybe would be useful for you, or applying the makeup a little bit differently, like lift it up instead of, you know, would would make a you know, brighten up your face and make a big difference.
• 21:18
  Cheryl: So really being your own best friend is how you treat yourself inside, but it's also how you treat yourself outside.
• 21:27
  Mary: Both of those things are connected.
• 21:29
  Mary: Oh, yeah.
• 21:30
  Mary: And it's I think it's really hard sometimes to hear what we say to ourselves.
• 21:34
  Mary: And if we we would never say it out loud to someone else.
• 21:36
  Mary: And so that's the idea of that best friend.
• 21:39
  Mary: Your best friend, you're not going to talk to them like, oh my God, I can't believe you're trying to wear that.
• 21:43
  Mary: It looks awful.
• 21:44
  Mary: We wouldn't say that.
• 21:46
  Mary: So I think that's part of it.
• 21:48
  Mary: But I also think when, you know, when I think about being in a group with women where you trust them, they can also help to gently point out the times where you use language.
• 21:59
  Mary: That puts yourself down or in ways that aren't, you're not trying to be funny, ways that really were saying, I don't like myself in these aspects.
• 22:10
  Mary: And when that can be reflected back in a situation where it's someone that we trust, we've built that trust.
• 22:17
  Mary: We know we're all there for a reason, you know, a reason to kind of share and lift each other up.
• 22:23
  Mary: I think that's really powerful.
• 22:24
  Mary: And one of the things that I have seen, and I'll be curious to hear your input on this, if this has come up with you, the women you work with.
• 22:32
  Mary: But I think, you know, we get to this age where we've moved through menopause, but we've been so busy raising our children or building our career or doing all the things that we either haven't processed things, or we'll feel like, oh, I'm not keeping up.
• 22:49
  Mary: I'm not doing as good as Jane down the street or, you know, or Joan that is in the office next to me, or this other mom that we might see at the park.
• 22:57
  Mary: But we never really process that.
• 22:59
  Mary: We sort of hold all of that stuff, all of those self-disappointments.
• 23:03
  Mary: And I think once we get to this point where we are now, things clear out a little bit.
• 23:07
  Mary: Our kids grow up.
• 23:09
  Mary: Maybe there's an empty nest.
• 23:11
  Mary: We might have moved to a point in our career where we've either been promoted or we're thinking about retirement.
• 23:17
  Mary: And it clears out some of this space.
• 23:19
  Mary: And I think then we start looking at all of these things.
• 23:22
  Mary: And sometimes that's really difficult because now it's like, okay, I have all this stuff that I shoved on a shelf, a mental shelf in my life.
• 23:30
  Mary: And now we start to be able to like look at that shelf and see what's on it.
• 23:36
  Mary: But I think also giving ourselves permission now to be able to start to deal with it, move through it, and have sort of this freedom of now we're in a different phase of life.
• 23:47
  Mary: Are these themes or that you've talked about?
• 23:50
  Mary: Or what are your thoughts on all that?
• 23:53
  Cheryl: Yeah, that's a great question.
• 23:54
  Cheryl: Um, a lot of the women that I work with do have children and they're empty nesters now.
• 23:59
  Cheryl: Um, some of them have children who boomeranged back home, you know, which is that's a whole nother story.
• 24:05
  Cheryl: Uh, and then I have some people who are in the same, you know, we're, you know, based on our age, like we're in the sandwich generation, you know, caring for aging parents and adult children who maybe came back home or financially need need help.
• 24:17
  Cheryl: Um, but um for now, I can't speak about myself for this particular example because I don't have human children.
• 24:25
  Cheryl: Mine all have four legs.
• 24:26
  Cheryl: Um, but you know, for the women who are the the caregivers, right?
• 24:32
  Cheryl: Raising the children, taking care of a spouse, a lot of them working full-time, running the house, like they're doing a lot.
• 24:40
  Cheryl: And a lot of them are doing it on autopilot.
• 24:44
  Cheryl: It's like these expectations that have been ingrained from a very, very young age.
• 24:48
  Cheryl: And probably, Mary, you know way more about that in your experience as a therapist, like where it's all coming from.
• 24:54
  Cheryl: Um, you know.
• 24:55
  Cheryl: But they've done, they've been doing, doing, doing, and really not giving themselves any uh focus, not prioritizing their own needs, not prioritizing self-care, or they'll say, I'll take care of myself after I've, and then they list all the other things that they have to do.
• 25:13
  Cheryl: Um, it's like they can't help themselves but to be doing for all these other people without even taking a pause to think about what about me?
• 25:23
  Cheryl: Um, or, you know, or why am I doing all this?
• 25:26
  Cheryl: Or, you know, maybe they'll all get along just fine if I'm not doing half this stuff.
• 25:31
  Cheryl: But um, but it's just these expectations of what what you're supposed to do, you know, as a wife, as a mother, you know, whatever.
• 25:39
  Cheryl: Now the kids are grown adults.
• 25:42
  Cheryl: These people uh may still be working.
• 25:44
  Cheryl: I have many of the women who are still working full-time.
• 25:47
  Cheryl: Some of them are uh newly retired, they have more time on their hands, but now they're questioning what's next for me in an optimistic, exciting way.
• 25:58
  Cheryl: But some of them are terrified because they don't even know what they want.
• 26:02
  Cheryl: They've never asked themselves and they've never taken the time to really think about what makes them happy or what hobbies they love or what trip they might want to go on, or what they want this next chapter to look like.
• 26:14
  Cheryl: Some of them aren't um, they're not maybe they're they're a little disappointed that that's how it is.
• 26:22
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 26:23
  Cheryl: But I find that at least the people in my circle are more about it's okay, that's why I'm here.
• 26:29
  Cheryl: Let's I want to figure it out, and we're all gonna be, you know, inspiring each other.
• 26:34
  Cheryl: Um for for me, I've been on this mission to figure out why I am the way I am because I'm very self-aware.
• 26:44
  Cheryl: Um, I'm I'm very curious.
• 26:46
  Cheryl: I feel like a lot of the way I am is not because of me or my own beliefs.
• 26:53
  Cheryl: It came from mother, father, oh yeah, expectations, society, their beliefs, their limiting beliefs that I've taken on that have limited me.
• 27:04
  Cheryl: Um, I want to break through it and get to the bottom of it already.
• 27:07
  Cheryl: I'm sick of it.
• 27:08
  Cheryl: It's really heavy and annoying, you know, it's like to carry that around.
• 27:12
  Cheryl: So I've been reading a lot of books about it.
• 27:14
  Cheryl: I've been um talking to a lot of people about it.
• 27:17
  Cheryl: I am discovering a lot of those limitations did come from other people.
• 27:25
  Cheryl: I took them on.
• 27:26
  Cheryl: I kept myself small, and I just don't want to do it anymore.
• 27:30
  Cheryl: And it's been kind of like I'm peeling the onion, you know, just trying to get to the bottom of it.
• 27:35
  Cheryl: I want this next chapter to be completely free.
• 27:39
  Cheryl: I want to be free of all of it.
• 27:41
  Cheryl: I just want to have fun.
• 27:42
  Cheryl: I want the life my life to be my own.
• 27:45
  Cheryl: I don't want to be held back by any of these things.
• 27:47
  Cheryl: I sort of feel like I don't know how much time is left for me on the planet.
• 27:51
  Cheryl: And I feel like every day that goes by that I'm not living that way is a waste.
• 27:56
  Cheryl: So I think all of us are just in these, you know, curious places.
• 28:01
  Cheryl: It's time for discovery.
• 28:02
  Cheryl: What's the next chapter going to look like?
• 28:04
  Cheryl: And taking responsibility that it's up to us to define what we want our life to look like moving forward.
• 28:12
  Mary: Yeah.
• 28:13
  Mary: Well, you actually brought up one of the issues I hear the most in my practice from women is they don't know what they want.
• 28:20
  Mary: Because when you are especially raising children, or again, you're you're building a career.
• 28:25
  Mary: In a career, you sort of know what you need to do.
• 28:28
  Mary: There's there's kind of like a playbook often with kids.
• 28:32
  Mary: You're simply responding.
• 28:33
  Mary: Like the next thing happens, you gotta figure it out.
• 28:37
  Mary: And I think when the dust clears on that kind of thing, you can look around and be like, oh, okay, so I don't have to be at the beck and call of my children.
• 28:47
  Mary: I am sort of in a spot in my career where I feel comfortable or like I know the playing field, I know the landscape.
• 28:55
  Mary: But when it comes to what you're talking about, building fulfillment, I think we can really feel at a loss.
• 29:02
  Mary: And I know that is one of the things that you really want to help women to kind of learn this idea of self-trust.
• 29:11
  Mary: How do you help them do that?
• 29:14
  Cheryl: Yeah, well, a lot of cheerleading.
• 29:17
  Cheryl: And, you know, you can do it.
• 29:18
  Cheryl: Um, you know, we we talk about these things.
• 29:21
  Cheryl: I think a lot of it is just again having conversation about it, you know.
• 29:25
  Cheryl: People will share where they are, um, what they're feeling.
• 29:30
  Cheryl: Some people, it's interesting.
• 29:32
  Cheryl: I've met a lot of women who haven't joined my group, who whom I feel would really get a lot out of it.
• 29:40
  Cheryl: They say they're looking for meaningful connections, they say they're looking to add more joy into their lives, they say they're looking to uh stretch themselves, but they won't take the action and join my group, which will help them cultivate all of those things.
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 29:58
  Cheryl: Because they're so stuck, like not giving themselves the permission or having so many years where they never did, and it feels so uncomfortable.
• 30:06
  Cheryl: Oh, yeah, that even though they want it, they won't take the action.
• 30:10
  Cheryl: And yet the women in my group still have those feelings, but the difference is they're aware of that, and they consciously are choosing to carve time for themselves and to explore, and they know they deserve it.
• 30:28
  Cheryl: So even though they don't know what they want, they know they deserve it.
• 30:32
  Cheryl: They know they know they deserve to create a life that's theirs now after all these years of doing for everybody else.
• 30:41
  Cheryl: And so I think that's just this little tiny shift is not knowing what you want and not being able to take the action towards it, even a little step.
• 30:53
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 30:53
  Cheryl: Um, and knowing you don't know what you want, but being excited to figure it out and choosing to figure it out, if that makes sense.
• 31:03
  Mary: Oh, yeah.
• 31:03
  Mary: Yeah.
• 31:04
  Mary: So I'm sure that in well, you've you've said this, in what you're doing now, you're gaining as well as giving, right?
• 31:12
  Mary: It's this symbiotic relationship that you're growing from the women around you, they're growing from you.
• 31:19
  Mary: So if there are women listening that are at this point where they're they're either approaching menopause, they're through menopause, and they're experiencing some of this stuff we're talking about.
• 31:30
  Mary: They feel stuck, they don't know where to start, maybe they themselves have not had really nurturing or deep female friendships.
• 31:38
  Mary: What are some things that either you've learned from your women or or just on your own that you would offer to them?
• 31:44
  Mary: What are some things that you would say, just start with these few things and it'll start to open some things up for you?
• 31:50
  Cheryl: Uh, if I think about, you know, the women in in my circle, and you're right with what you're saying, it's it's a win-win.
• 31:58
  Cheryl: I'm learning from them, they're learning from me.
• 32:00
  Cheryl: I feel like, what do they say?
• 32:02
  Cheryl: It's like the sum is bigger than the parts or something.
• 32:05
  Cheryl: Yeah, you know, sure.
• 32:06
  Cheryl: All of us together, it's just really so powerful.
• 32:10
  Cheryl: Um a different perspective, something you never thought of.
• 32:15
  Cheryl: Somebody's got some expertise that you don't.
• 32:18
  Cheryl: Um, just the just the sharing.
• 32:20
  Cheryl: It's been really great.
• 32:21
  Cheryl: And I do see this as something where I wanted some personal fulfillment, but I also wanted to help other women have personal fulfillment.
• 32:33
  Cheryl: So I I'm really like so so happy about what's happening.
• 32:38
  Cheryl: In terms of the woman who isn't really sure where to start, you know, there's lots of different ways.
• 32:44
  Cheryl: There's lots of books out there.
• 32:46
  Cheryl: I love reading books.
• 32:47
  Cheryl: I love I read self-help books.
• 32:49
  Cheryl: There are like three self-help books I have read like six times each.
• 32:53
  Cheryl: I just read them over and over again to have a constant reminder.
• 32:56
  Cheryl: Things that have really resonated with me.
• 32:59
  Cheryl: Um I'm curious what they are, Cheryl.
• 33:01
  Cheryl: What what books are you?
• 33:03
  Cheryl: So yeah, so there's a book.
• 33:05
  Cheryl: Um, my new favorite one is called Children of Emotionally Immature Parents.
• 33:10
  Cheryl: Because as I said, I really want to get to the bottom of these these things that have have held me back, these beliefs.
• 33:18
  Cheryl: And uh, of course, it all goes back to your mother and your father, but um, but you know, like I don't I don't blame them.
• 33:26
  Cheryl: You know, I can hold I can hold space for both.
• 33:28
  Cheryl: Oh, yeah.
• 33:28
  Cheryl: They're only doing what they learned.
• 33:30
  Cheryl: It repeats, you know, generationally.
• 33:32
  Cheryl: But um, but it in addition, though, it's affected my life in some pretty significant ways, which are un unfortunate.
• 33:40
  Cheryl: Um, or maybe fortunate because if you look at it, all the things I've gone through have made me who I am and have made me very empathetic to other people and very uh emotionally uh attuned, you know, to what's going on for other people.
• 33:56
  Cheryl: So again, as a coach, you can say your biggest pain is your biggest gift.
• 34:01
  Cheryl: Um, but I still feel like it was kind of sucky, you know, to be a kid growing up and experiencing a lot of these things.
• 34:08
  Cheryl: So that book is, I really, really love it.
• 34:10
  Cheryl: I'm reading it now for the second time.
• 34:12
  Cheryl: Um, and then there's a book called How to Do the Work, and it's written by Dr.
• 34:17
  Cheryl: Nicole Lapera.
• 34:18
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 34:18
  Cheryl: And she's the holistic psychologist.
• 34:21
  Cheryl: Um, she has, I think, three books, and I've uh I've read two of them like six times.
• 34:28
  Cheryl: And um, she's got an Instagram and she's very active on it.
• 34:31
  Cheryl: And again, a lot of the things that she says resonate a lot with with me and where I am in life.
• 34:36
  Cheryl: So I really, really like that.
• 34:38
  Cheryl: Um, and then there's all the coaching books, but to start small, I think it's just being curious.
• 34:44
  Cheryl: Go out and see what's available on meetup.
• 34:47
  Cheryl: Go out and see what's available on the internet, read some books, start small steps, maybe with a girlfriend that you have.
• 34:54
  Cheryl: See if you can bring things up at a little bit that's not too scary and see how they respond.
• 35:00
  Cheryl: You know, if you have if you feel like you can have deeper conversations with them.
• 35:05
  Cheryl: Certainly, you know, you can subscribe to my newsletter, you know.
• 35:08
  Cheryl: Maybe some of the things I say will be helpful.
• 35:11
  Cheryl: Um, and really just put yourself out there.
• 35:15
  Cheryl: Start to have an awareness of the things you're afraid of, start to have an awareness of the ways you hold yourself back.
• 35:23
  Cheryl: Try to remember all the things you loved before you had all these responsibilities and or you know, go try new things, take a class, you know, just ex expand, expand yourself.
• 35:37
  Cheryl: Um, and I think if you approach life with this kind of curiosity, everything's an adventure, you know, everything's an opportunity, it will start to open some doors for you and kind of bring you on the path.
• 35:50
  Cheryl: So I don't know, Mary, can you relate to any of that?
• 35:54
  Mary: Oh, for sure.
• 35:54
  Mary: For sure.
• 35:55
  Mary: No, I love the idea of curiosity.
• 35:57
  Mary: I probably say that in every episode at some point.
• 36:00
  Mary: And uh, and I think what you bring up about parents, because of course that would be a whole other episode, right?
• 36:05
  Mary: Is you know, we have parents who often were not equipped themselves to understand their own emotions.
• 36:14
  Mary: And so the they may not have an awareness of um, well, let me take that back.
• 36:21
  Mary: They have probably have an awareness of how their behavior is affecting their children, but they don't know what to do about it because most of them would never go to therapy, not from that generation.
• 36:32
  Mary: And so then we are sort of left kind of to come a little bit full circle with what we talked about in the beginning.
• 36:38
  Mary: We're sort of left now in this situation of like, okay, we have this stuff, we want to start to it, you know, explore.
• 36:46
  Mary: Or as you're talking about, you want to process it and like move through it and get to the next thing, the the joy and the fulfillment.
• 36:55
  Mary: And we weren't given tools by our parents to do that.
• 36:59
  Mary: We're we're in a sense undoing the things that we had to get through.
• 37:05
  Mary: So I think that's a really important point.
• 37:08
  Mary: So the curiosity, that acceptance, not self-blame, but to really be able to do what you're saying, explore some things, you know, look at why do I have this reaction or why have I limited myself?
• 37:22
  Mary: And I love, love, love that you do that with women together, because I just think that that is awesome.
• 37:31
  Mary: So could you talk a little about everything you offer, where people can find you, and then I will link it in the show notes because I know that you have a newsletter that you mentioned that where you like to share some of your insights.
• 37:46
  Cheryl: So I have uh a newsletter called The Uplift.
• 37:48
  Cheryl: It's free and it goes out every Thursday.
• 37:51
  Cheryl: It is um, it's like a mini version of some of the things we talk about in our local community, but I'll typically bring up some topic, how it relates to my life, a struggle that I'm having, or something that I'm observing, um, and then what I'm doing or what I did to address it or overcome it.
• 38:12
  Cheryl: And then there will be some reflection prompts in there.
• 38:15
  Cheryl: Um, every once in a while I'll put a try it, like here's one step for you to take this week, you know, just a little baby step if you're faced with something like this.
• 38:22
  Cheryl: Um, so the uplift newsletter is free.
• 38:25
  Cheryl: Um, that's available to everybody, no matter no matter where they're located.
• 38:30
  Cheryl: And then um I'm in uh coastal North County, San Diego.
• 38:34
  Cheryl: And so the Connected Hearts membership is currently in person and based here.
• 38:40
  Cheryl: Um, again, my company is new.
• 38:42
  Cheryl: I have these big dreams that one day there will be chapters all over the country.
• 38:48
  Cheryl: Um, maybe I could travel around or I'll have people who can uh facilitate these.
• 38:54
  Cheryl: Um, but for now there is no online version of it.
• 38:57
  Cheryl: And then the coaching is online and that's available to women everywhere, and that's one-on-one personalized support.
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 39:06
  Cheryl: So um, so those are the ways for now.
• 39:09
  Cheryl: Uh, if you, you know, if you want to start up uh a local where you are, Mary, we could talk and I can teach you what I'm doing.
• 39:17
  Cheryl: But uh but hopefully, you know, again, all kidding aside, hopefully the listeners just know they're not alone.
• 39:25
  Cheryl: All of us, no matter where we live, feel, you know, scared about things, feel confused about what's happening to us, our moods, our bodies, you know, where we are in life.
• 39:38
  Cheryl: But there's lots of support out there now.
• 39:41
  Cheryl: And there's lots of other women who are experiencing these things and want to be able to talk about it with others.
• 39:48
  Mary: Yeah, very inspiring.
• 39:49
  Mary: And I would say there's there could very well be some women's groups that we don't even recognize.
• 39:55
  Mary: I know a friend of mine is starting a yoga menopause, a yoga group for women.
• 40:00
  Mary: She specifically got certified in yoga for menopause.
• 40:04
  Mary: So there are starting to be more and more women deciding to do what you have taken the step to do and help women gather.
• 40:13
  Mary: And it is one of the most powerful things.
• 40:15
  Mary: We've been doing it for centuries because that's how we supported each other.
• 40:20
  Mary: We just have gotten away from that.
• 40:22
  Mary: And you're you're right, you know, when we start to put a screen between us, it can be really effective for what we're doing right now, for a podcast, for one-on-one.
• 40:32
  Mary: But when we gather in a group, that power of being together in the same space is just the it's unmatched.
• 40:40
  Mary: So thank you for the work you do.
• 40:41
  Mary: And thank you so much for being here and sharing everything with me today.
• 40:46
  Cheryl: Thank you so much for having me.
• 40:47
  Cheryl: I've really enjoyed our conversation.
• 40:50
  Mary: You're welcome.
• 40:50
  Mary: And I want to thank everyone for listening.
• 40:52
  Mary: Please forward this episode to a friend who would benefit from the information that we shared today.
• 40:57
  Mary: And until next time, go out into the world and be the amazing, resilient, vibrant violet that you are.