Latest / The Accounting Leads Now Podcast / Why Profit Isn’t Enough And What Most Founders Get Dead Wrong - With Daniel Dickeson

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Why Profit Isn’t Enough And What Most Founders Get Dead Wrong - With Daniel Dickeson · The Accounting Leads Now Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Today's guest is Daniel Dickinson, a certified CFO and the founder of Atlas CFO Solutions, a firm that delivers high impact advisory services to small healthcare businesses.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: But Daniel's not your typical finance guy.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: He doesn't just look at numbers.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: He listens to what they say.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: With a gift for translating financial chaos into clarity, daniel helps business owners reclaim control not just of their companies, but of their lives.
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: In this episode, you'll hear how he turned a struggling salon into a thriving operation, why cashflow, not profit, is the real king, and how he's mentoring the next generation of entrepreneurs, all while proving that even the most complex businesses can work for the owner, not the other way around.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Daniel, welcome to the show.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: I'm so excited to have you on.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: I'm really looking forward to this one.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: Thank you, James.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: I appreciate it.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: I'm great Happy to be here.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: Awesome, awesome.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: Let's get right into it.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: So I would love to hear a little bit about how things got started on your side, a little bit about your story.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: So let's go back to the beginning.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: How did you get into finance and what inspired you to specialize in healthcare businesses?
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's it.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: It's an interesting story and always makes me laugh when I tell it.
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: So when I was in high school I actually wanted to go to school for English literature, to go to college, and my father was vehemently opposed to it.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: He felt like it and there's nothing against anybody who's an English lit major he just felt like it wasn't going to be applicable for me for a career.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: I would end up, in his words, either being a writer or a teacher, and I have no problem with either of those because I think it's outstanding.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: But I sat down and said OK, let me think of where I want to go with a career, and it's very hard when you're 17, 18 years old.
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: And I sat down with my guidance counselor and he said have you thought about business?
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: And I said I did, in fact, because my mother and my stepfather both owned a convenience store, so I hadn't been exposed to the entrepreneurial side of things early on.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: I had been working at the community school since I was in sixth grade and that made me decide I think I'm going to go into finance some type of thing.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: So when I asked my guidance counselor, he said you need to pick what you're going to declare for a major.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: And I had no idea.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: I understood, I took some business courses in high school, but nothing you know elaborate.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: I understood, I took some business courses in high school, but nothing you know elaborate.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: What would be the difference between, let's say, going and getting a degree in finance versus accounting, versus economics?
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: And through his guidance, thank goodness you know he said you'll probably want to look at accounting gives you an overall snapshot and not as sectored.
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: So that's what I did so.
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: I went to Florida State University and I graduated with a bachelor's and a master's degree in accounting, and then, later on, I went to Davenport University and earned an MBA.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: I decided to go into accounting more than anything because I love that.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: I'm fascinated with the operation of a business from every aspect of it.
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: Owning my own business.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: Now I think I'm more interested in the sales and marketing things and trying to understand that enigma than anything else.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: But to say to yourself you want to analyze how a company makes money.
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: What does it need to do?
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: and all the mechanisms that go into place.
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: So that's in essence.
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: I don't know if you want me to walk through my career, but I did the standard and all the mechanisms that go into place.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: So that's, in essence, you know, I don't know if you want me to walk through my career, but I just I did the standard.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: I went to work and ended up I worked for a wealth management firm and then I did that for about two years.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: It wasn't exactly what I wanted to do, and then I went to work for H Hess Healthcare, which was in New York.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: It gave me the opportunity to move up.
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: I moved up through the ranks.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: I've spent about 14 years there, became the controller and then, in March of 2010, I became the CFO, and I was the CFO from March of 2010 until February 2016.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: Then I went to work for the opportunity to be the CFO for a seafood distribution company in New England South Stream Seafoods and I had a great opportunity there, worked with some fantastic guys, and it was a completely different break from what I was doing because I'd spent the bulk of my career in healthcare.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: So it was giving me an opportunity to kind of do something different and seeing things on a logistics, distribution operations side, dealing a lot with inventory, and it was phenomenal.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: I learned so much over the time and then I just kind of I won't say I outg grew that because it was still a phenomenal opportunity.
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: I'll always be grateful for every boss and every opportunity I've ever had.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: But I decided I'm 50 years old and I hit a point in my life where I wanted to try to do something different.
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: So I decided did something crazy was I'm going to start my own business and hence founding Atlas CFO Solutions, where I wanted to be able to try to help smaller businesses and really overcome the obstacles, particularly financially, that they seem to endure, and making my niche healthcare, because that is really where my strength and background is, or at least where I feel the most comfortable.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: So that was, you know, that's been the bulk of my career now and then it's just, you know, helping clients now and trying to meet new people and network and grow and get your name out there.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, awesome.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: That's so cool.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: You said your work is more than just the numbers.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: It helps tell a story.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: So what do you mean by that exactly?
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: I've asked this question to a lot of people in the past, but I'm always curious to hear the unique perspective of who we have on the show or who I'm speaking to, because there's a lot of different ways to go about that right.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: So I'd love to hear your perspective on that.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: Yeahing is.
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: There's a fascinating side of accounting for those of us who enjoy it.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: But for the people who are more of, let's say, non-accountants, the first thing they'll say is oh, you love numbers.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: Yes, I did very well in math and it is very math based, so there's no, that's not a misnomer or anything like that, but I often say to people because I love that moment when they have a light bulb where they see it's not financial jargon, it's not a KPI, but how?
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: it actually worked for them in their business.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: So what I often say to them is it's a language.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: It's like we're learning a language and for those of us who speak one language or two languages, whatever it may be, it's like learning language, and when you know, you know how to read it.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: And then what's beautiful about accounting is we created these standards so that it's applicable, whether it's generally accepted accounting principles or whatever.
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: But you can apply them universally across businesses.
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: Generally accepted accounting principles, but you can apply them universally across businesses and when I'm able to say that yeah to the business owners.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: One of the gentlemen I worked with when he was trying to understand inventory and I went back to having a professor I had in college who referenced, you know, when you have raw materials and you have work in progress and then a finished goods he used the example of a cake and I know probably a lot of people have heard this, but it's really more of an accounting, but you're understanding the principle behind how does something become what it is?
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: And it's always good when you can use examples or visualizations to help somebody see the bigger picture.
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: That is singularly the thing I enjoy the most is when you can turn around and say to somebody let's say they're looking at the receivables.
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: So in healthcare, one of the biggest challenges that they face is their claims are being held up either through the third party providers right, the insurance companies or it's being denied straight out.
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: So they're not getting their money and you want to walk back with them the revenue cycle management and help them to understand where does this trip up?
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: And it's a cause and effect that goes all the way through.
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: But when they see it and when they get it and then their cash starts coming in faster.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: So what does that?
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: Help them to capitalize on opportunities for their business for their growth, also for themselves.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: Every business owner, we start out with the intent it's not necessarily greedy, but you want to feel like you're doing this for something a return on your own investment or whatever it may be and you want to be able to have some standard of living that allows you to take and provide for your family or yourself and do things like that and that's the enjoyment that I get.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: You know, I'm sure we'll touch on it, but the example I referenced when you and I spoke previously about one of my clients that owns a salon it's really not in the health care.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: I took this woman on as a favor.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: You must have a list.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: You must have a list of my questions, because I was gonna get into that, yeah, yeah no, but yeah, I would love to hear um, because when we were speaking before about a really cool win you had for yes for one of your salon clients and and now you helped you know, look at her numbers and you helped her triple her take-home pay and I think it was what just around a year, yeah that's an accomplishment.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: Would love to hear a little bit more about how you helped her approach that transformation and what were some of the biggest levers you pulled for her yeah, absolutely, I mean it was, and it's ironic because when I always say, you know my health care, my niche is health care and this has nothing to do with health care.
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: So it's a friend of the family and she was in a very difficult spot.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: If I may, I don't want to share too much.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: You know, it is her personal story for hers that she's going through, but I will share just some brushstrokes.
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: So the audience understands.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: She was married.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: She has two daughters.
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: One daughter is entering college, one is just about to finish high school and her husband unfortunately passed away two years ago.
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: She owned a salon and she self-admittedly, her name is Melinda would.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: She ran the business more almost like a hobby at the time.
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: It was something she did.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: She went to school for it.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: She's very good at it, but it wasn't.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: She was not the breadwinner.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: And now she found herself in a situation where she needs to provide for her girls and that became a whole different story.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: And I did not know her.
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: It was referred to, you know.
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: She was referred to me.
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: We had a number of conversations and I said I think I can help you.
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: So I looked at her books, I looked at her, you know.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: Particularly what I was trying to understand I always look for is inefficiencies.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: How can we increase capital?
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: That's what she's struggling with.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: So what are the drivers of the cash flow?
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: we want to focus on Some of your key drivers of cash flow that you want to look at is now, for her, it's a point of sale, so she has no accounts receipt, but we're going to look at how she's paying her vendors right.
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: We're going to look at her inventory.
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: Now there's two types of inventory that she has.
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: There's inventory that she uses for her actual treatments for her clients, and then there's inventory that she actually sells.
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: So what we discovered was, sadly you know, she's a very super sweet woman she's too much to too many people.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: I guess that's the easiest way to say it.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: She's trying to please all the people that she has working for her, so each person will only use a certain type of product and that's just for what they use on their clients and stuff, because they're renting out the space and the booth.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: And what it led to was her having an exorbitant amount of inventory in hand that was not for resale.
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: Right away, I said to him well, we need to reduce that, because it's tying up your working cabinet.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: The other thing is that she had not made any type of, she was afraid to, in fact, to increase her rates, the fees that she was charging, because she was so afraid of losing the clientele that she had, because she needed every dollar that she needed.
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: And I said, okay, what we can do is we can test it by making adjustments to the pricing strategy, incrementally, very small, it does not have to, and you do it over time, but it'll get you there faster.
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: So we did that and in combination with obviously tightening cost management, let's take a look at all your expenses?
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: what's going through?
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: What do you truly need?
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: What can you eliminate?
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: And in that term, she was taking home roughly about $36,000 a year for her working full-time, and I'm going to share this with you because it's probably something that means the most to me.
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: She was working seven days a week, barring holidays, could not take a day off, did not take a vacation, anything and she when.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: I was on the call with her.
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: I could actually see that she was burned out.
• 12:51
  Speaker 3: People talk about burnout and it is in fact something that happens.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: I could see her expression on her face and then I saw, when we walked through and it's the next meeting that I had with her when I had a forecast for her and I showed her if you do, if you reduce your inventory, if you increase your pricing, if you reduce your costs in this area, right here, this is the result you'll have, and I believe it was 11 months and it was over 90,000 that she would be taking home.
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: And then I projected one thing extra for her.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: I did a projection for five years for her forecast out because I wanted her to see the big picture.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: If you continue on this course, this is where we'll be in year one, year two, year three, year four, and by year three she should be close to 130 or more thousand.
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: And that's without trying to scale.
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: You know, because that's the next thing I said to her is what you want to do?
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: Is you now want to look at what are the other avenues that you can do to supplement, for supplemental income, to grow the company?
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: She actually cried and that was the most touching moment I have ever had in my entire career.
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: That night I went home and when I went to bed and I know everybody says this or it sounds silly, but it was like when you know that you can make a fundamental difference in somebody's life you know it's the greatest feeling you can have.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: Or for me personally I don't speak for anybody else but yes, we want to make money, but I'm also interested in truly helping people.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: Like I shared, there's a gentleman I'm helping for free because he's in such a difficult situation, but his business is one that he helps men and women who are in law enforcement that deal with traumatic events.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: All right, and I shared with you that my middle son is.
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: He was in the military.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: He's no longer anymore, and there was a personal thing that resonated to me and wanting to be able to help him when he gave me one story about he had a police officer that he was working with.
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: He's a doctor in psychology and the police officer was trying to deal with the.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: He had taken a two-year-old baby from the hands of the father who had committed suicide and he just the descriptive.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: I don't want to go into it or make this a melancholy podcast, but his description touched me so deeply.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: I said you know what?
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: I'm going to help you for free and that's I think we need to have more focus on that.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: Not necessarily like doing things for free and a lot of accountants are going to jump all over me for saying that because you know to that thought process but you want to help people.
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: For example, like I said, I'm a mentor at Score.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: I told you previously and that's how it helps people for free.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: It's a great program, but the idea driving that's how it helps people for free.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: It's a great program.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: But the idea driving, underlining everything, is making a positive impact on people's lives and if you can do that and make money every day, you wake up and you're winning.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: That's my own field.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: I appreciate you sharing that so much, daniel, both of those stories, because I did want to ask you about that and I'm happy you brought that up, because when we were initially speaking, that really resonated with me and it was a big reason I wanted to have you come on the podcast.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: You have so much to share and just the way you go about helping your clients, helping people who aren't even well, I want to say clients, but not even paid clients, Like you were connected with someone and you're like look, I, I just want to help you out and I'm a firm believer.
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: I was taught and mentors always tell me like if you you take care of everyone else, they'll take care of your business.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: So I think you're a prime example of that and I think it's really cool what you're doing.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: So, um, thank you, that's awesome.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: Um, so tell me a little bit about your um, you know success and what does that finally look like when a business is works?
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: Works.
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: The business works for the owner instead of the other way around.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: So that's a key component.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: Like everybody, one of the questions I'll actually ask somebody during what we call a right fit meeting and we're trying to determine if we are right to work with each other.
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: But you want to ask that person to define how they view success, because success is subjective.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: Success to one individual may be hey, I'm driving a Lamborghini.
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: Success to another person may be, for example, melinda, I want to be able to put my daughters through college.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: I don't want to lose my home.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: Success is me making enough money to support my family, right?
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: So I always say I need to ask that question because I need to understand how that person views their success.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: For me, when I look at that success and the turning point it's, success can be measured in numbers and ratios.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: It can be measured in milestones, if you're asking me personally, in my business, my first goal was to replace the salary that I was making as a CFO with client based.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: You know, having that know, having that, to me I feel like everything above and beyond that is great, because I'm doing what I love making, what I was making, you know, and that's the to me, the first and then the second part of success will be to grow to a firm, you know, and on a personal level.
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: For clients, the success is watching them, you know, as you mentioned earlier, when they're not having to work 60, 70 hours a week.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: By that means, we help them implement the right infrastructure so that they can start to create almost like an org chart where they've got people that are handling things, that they handle these things.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: It's that buffer to give them free time to either focus on growing the business Maybe they have their own personal time that they need to be able to go take a vacation or do things like that.
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: And I take it in a little bit of a tiered approach.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: I'm working with a woman right now who owns a physical therapy practice.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: She's an amazing person and she's going through that right now.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: She works all the time from 630 in the morning till 11 o'clock at night.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: Very, very intelligent, hardworking, driven woman.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: And I said OK, here's what we need to do, and I'm just starting out working with her.
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: I said the first thing we need to do is look at all the drivers of your cash flow.
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: We need to increase your cash flow.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: Then we also need to look at the efficiencies in your organization.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: Conversely, meaning, let's look at the overhead analysis.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: In healthcare, more often than not, you have a doctor who they're extremely intelligent individuals, very driven, ok, and but they did not go to school for accounting or finance.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: So they're excellent at what they do and their speciality, in this case, the woman, being a physical therapist and extremely intelligent, but they're not schooled on the financial side of things Right, so they need someone's help to come in and say, ok, they want to be all things to all people.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: So it's like, well, they hire this person and they hire this person, and then they you know, for example, this woman has a bookkeeper.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: She has a CPA who does her tax returns.
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: She has a business coach who's charging her a thousand dollars a month and not giving her any return on their investment.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: She has a medical biller who's charging her 5.5% of her revenue for all the billing.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: I told her, after looking at the model, I said you're more profitable than you even realize because you're not following ASC 606, which is alignment with your revenue Okay, recognizing revenue when it's earned and it's through contract and so forth.
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: I said and also, if we start to close your cash gap, you'll pay your vendors, You're going to increase your cash flow, You're going to be able to scale your business.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: Those metrics helps you to hire that right-hand person that you need so that you can have some time to yourself and you will continue to now create a model that you can scale and grow from.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: And it doesn't require you doing every facet Things that she would tell me she was doing.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: I would say, okay, so you could not hire, let's say, a virtual assistant or an assistant and that person couldn't do that for you.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: Or let's look at everybody's role in the company and see is there a way to consolidate things?
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: Because more often than times they're filling bodies and they want to get things done because they need that and your overhead, your payroll, more than anything predominantly, can balloon and out of control.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: And then, if you don't have an alignment with your revenue and your overhead and your expenses, there's the profitability issue, but there's also that issue of scalability and cash flow and other metrics.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: So once you get that alignment like I just had a meeting with her yesterday and I could see the difference, the change right, she's getting it, she's understanding what we need to do when you start to map out and that's, I guess.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry for the long-winded explanation, but if you create the structure for them and that's what they need, they just need to have that structure, the blueprint, to say this is what we need to do.
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: And I'm going to walk you through and this is what I do as a business and all of my colleagues.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: You take that person by the hand and you walk them through in a step-by-step process to say, when you do this, you do this, you do this and you give them a cause and effect.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: If you do this, this is the result and they can see it and it's measurable.
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: And then, over enough time, in the increments, as we follow, and particularly all drivers of the cash flow, you're making positive movements.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: So that's my measure of success is to be able to watch them have that light bulb moment when the infrastructure is designed, then put in place and then actually executed, and when it's executed and when it's working and they see it, the relief that comes over them.
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: That's awesome, that's a great answer.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: I'm curious, daniel, what do you say to potential clients or what would be your word of advice for other CFOs out there?
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: You're speaking to a prospect, you're speaking to a business owner.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: They've brought someone in before and all the things, the things you're sharing, like, hey, I know I can help you out here in these areas, this is what you need to do.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: And they're like, ah, I had someone come in before and like they, yeah it, it didn't work, I didn't get anywhere.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: Like, and you know, I, I can actually do this.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: Like I have a track record, we have this, we've done this for someone else.
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: Uh, what do you say to them?
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: Because I'm sure that's an objection everyone comes across, right?
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: Yes, it is most certainly I've.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: I've encountered it myself.
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: Okay, um, that you're, as the the oncoming cfo or potential cfo for them.
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: You're battling some baggage that they may have, and rightfully so.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: Sadly, there are people in the industry who are not as professional as they should be and I don't want to name any names or, you know, be a negative person about it, but it's painful to endure when you're on the other side and you know that you can help somebody and you want to help somebody and you're trying to explain it.
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: So the advice that I give to the CFOs is to number one always remember that they are not financial experts.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: Okay, it's great that we have ratios, it's great that we have data rails and spreadsheets and dashboards and everything that can give them that, but you've got to make sure that they understand it almost in a spoon feeding sense, because you have to crawl before you walk and walk before you run.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: Number two be thorough.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: You have to be very thorough with what you do.
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: Go through that with detailed, fine analysis.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: You can give them a summary, but you spend time and then you create this summary to them so that they understand, and then you give them the option, no matter how if they want to go as granule as possible and drill down to line items on a P&L or specific items within that, they can do that.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: Or if they want summary.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: I have clients that are very vast in how they want to handle things.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: Some don't want to get on a call, some want to get on a call weekly, some email me daily.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: It really depends on their need.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: But you have to understand it requires a level of emotional intelligence, if you will, to understand the client's needs that's the thing and understand that you have to work through those barriers.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: And how do you do that?
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: By establishing trust.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: It's done incrementally.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: We don't meet people and instantly trust them, especially when you're talking about finance.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: Right, you're asking for people for their financial statements, potentially looking at their tax returns.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: This is very, very personal information and they're very guarded.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: It would be like you know here in the United States if you're walking up and asking somebody hey, what's your Social Security number and how much do you make?
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: These are things that we don't ask each other right.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: So having that mindset and having that in place to be very sensitive to the person's needs, be very responsive to everything that they ask and be thorough in understanding and obviously you do need to understand what you're doing.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: I think there are some people who take on the task of thinking that they went and got a certificate to be a bookkeeper or something.
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: There is a certain level of experience and education that goes into being a CFO that you actually need to be able to understand tax, understand compliance, you understand financial analysis and planning and so forth.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: It's a little bit different.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: That's no knock against anybody in the bookkeeping industry because they do a phenomenal job.
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: It's a crucial aspect of every business.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: But for example, a client I was just saying to you earlier she's facing this difficulty because her bookkeeper did not understand ASC 606.
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: And I said to her you're more profitable than you realize right off the bat, because they're booking revenue in a cash basis and you're booking it when the service is provided.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: That's when your revenue should be booked.
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: I'll just give you an example.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: And that right there alone made a dynamic shift in just her P&L.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: So now it turns around and say, okay, now, if we look at this and you want to expand your business, one of the things you need to do is have two years of profits and you need to be able to demonstrate to a lending institution that you can in fact support a line of credit if that's what you're looking to obtain right To help you grow.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: So these are the metrics that you want to have in place.
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: So that's the advice.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: I know that it's not like because it's subjective and each person is.
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: You're dealing with an individual and every individual is different.
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: But I think the most important thing is to understand your client's needs, read their emotion, understand what they're thinking and feeling and be cognizant of the fact that they've been through some trials and tribulations.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: And I think if you're able to do that and you're there almost on a therapeutic sense for them to just talk, sometimes some people just need to say, not expecting you to fix a problem, just hey, I'm dealing with this and this and they talk and then they realized I didn't have to do anything.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: They just needed a moment to, if you want to say, vent or just kind of express their emotions of what they're going through.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: We're business owners.
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: You know I'm sure you know this very well they wear so many different hats and that can be so overwhelming.
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: They're trying to be sales, they're trying to be marketing, they're trying to be financed, they're trying to be operations.
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: They're trying to be all things at once and particularly if you don't have a specific experience in that, it can be challenging.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: It can be like I talked with you previously, marketing is not my strength.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: I've worked with marketing for years and years and years, but never like as a specific to what I need to do for my business type of thing.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, that's the advice I would give to any CFO that's trying to learn.
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: Just focus on that.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: Awesome, that's great.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: I got a couple kind of lightning round questions for you.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: Cool, we'll wrap this up.
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: So there's a handful here Off the top.
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: What's the number one number every business owner needs to know like the back of their hand gross profit, cash flow and gross profit if I had to say one and two.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: You want to know your cash if you want to drill down even more granule, know your burn rate, know what your cash balance is and how far it can sustain you perfect, perfect, most underrated financial strategy.
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: You wish more people used.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: That's a good question.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: I think that to focus on your margins, to really truly like for example, in being that healthcare to your service.
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: What's your cost of service and what are you getting per your revenue?
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: Because that's going to drive your business.
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: If you look at the key, drivers of cashflow.
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: It's your working capital, arap.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: It can be your gross profit and your EBITDA.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: And look at those, but really manage those lines, manage your expenses and I think people tend to think they do.
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: But then when you show them, they realize they're not Okay.
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: What's one habit that made the biggest difference in your career.
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: Actually, it's a funny habit.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: I am a huge list maker.
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: Okay, I create lists and then sub lists.
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: But why is?
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: Because I like to be very structured in everything that I do.
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: So, for example, I have a structure of how.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: I approach every single day from.
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: I get up early in the morning and work out, and after that I'm at my desk at a certain period of time and for a certain period of time.
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: What I found that's worked for me is to do it in blocks of time.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: Like from this time to this time I'm going to post on social media and build my presence on it.
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: From this time to this time, I'm going to answer client emails.
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: From this time to this time, I may make phone calls.
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: From this time to this time, I'm going to work on the client caseload.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: It's having structure and I learned that very early on, particularly fine-tuned it when I went for my MBA, because I did my entire MBA online and this was many, many years ago.
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: I graduated in 2010 with my MBA and so it was on the forefront of the online process that things were coming through and you really, in order to be successful and do well and I graduated with a 3.7, you needed to.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: You have to have structure.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: So I learned early on and I've implemented throughout is structure.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: It's really not applicable anything to accounting per se.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: It's just in general in life and I apply that inside my business life, professional and my personal life.
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: Awesome people, what is the?
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to think how I want to wear this exact two and I don't want to potentially word it wrong for you.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: What would be the strongest piece or the best piece of advice you would give to to the listeners or listener, there might not even be a lot, we'll see okay so listener.
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: What's the best piece of advice you give to the listener?
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: to the listener.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: If you are, if you are thinking about, um, starting a business, right, you definitely want to try to make yourself aware of creating a business model.
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: Understanding the pricing that you would do your pricing strategy.
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: Understanding your market, like who you're going to be selling to and how viable that market is right To the individuals that already own a business.
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: It's again going back to.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: You're going to look at your margins, because you're focusing on the two key components Number one, your revenue and what you're getting for your revenue dollars.
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: Number two, your costs.
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: What are your costs?
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: Because everything left is what's going to be left for you in the end, right After you're paying your expenses.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: Your net profit it goes to.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: So I would tell them that that's what you want to focus on and, more importantly, I guess I'd go back to saying anything is if for the person who's thinking about doing something or whatever, try to pick something that you love.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: I know people say that and it sounds almost like a cliche, but I tell you this best move that I've ever made in my life starting my own business to be able to help people and you really do wake up every day happy to go to work.
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: You wake up every day saying this doesn't feel like work.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: This is one win after another, and I'm not saying I haven't had my setbacks, I have.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I would say you know to do what you love and you're passionate about.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: That's awesome.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: Okay, Last one here in this, in this rapid fire round.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: What's the best piece of advice you've ever received?
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: That's a tough one because it's been.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: I've had so many great men, I've had some great mentors in my life, phenomenal individuals, I would say that's, that's a hard one.
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: You got me on that one.
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: I'd have give me a moment, just I know it's gonna be good, because you're we kind of got.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: Uh, we tripped you up a bit so I know there's gonna be.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, see it's the problem is it's I've I've been um at the c level for so long.
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: Now it's a little bit harder.
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: So I'm going back earlier in my career when I really needed, you know, I think, probably one of the best pieces of advice I had actually had to do with managing.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: Okay, Now that I think about it, I had a manager who had said to me I was.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: It was yeah, you know what, I'll go with this, because it was I was first promoted to being a controller and I was so nervous about being.
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: I'm a manager and I have all these employees under me and I had never managed before and I was very young.
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: It was in 2003.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: And I was so concerned with what people would think of me and would I be a good manager and how effective would I be?
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: So I sat down with my manager and I had a great relationship.
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: So I had this ability to go and say I'm feeling some reservations or some anxiety over this situation.
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: In this case, being a manager, I had because, you got to remember, I was managing people and some of them were more than twice my age and they were resentful.
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: Some people had gotten passed over.
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: I moved up, maybe faster than they did, and so it was there, maybe a little bit of animosity.
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: And he said to me Dan, the hardest thing that you're ever going to do in your career and I thought he was going to say, was the accountant learning this rag, this, that applying this principle?
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: And he said it has nothing to do with accounting.
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: He said it's going to be due with managing people.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: And he said my experience, and he was an older gentleman.
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: So he's, at this time I'm young, I'm 27 years old.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: He's an older gentleman telling a younger gentleman.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: He said it's like herding cats.
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: Each person, all well, do they have good intentions, but they're all doing, they all have their own agenda they're trying to achieve.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: Either it's, you know, trying to get something done on their job, or what they're trying to do and so forth.
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: And he said you're trying to bring them all together to get them herded and in the right direction.
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: And I, looking back now it's the CEO has the vision right.
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: They create this vision and their job is not to force it on people, it's to get them to buy into that.
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: And that's what he was telling me as a manager.
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: Don't come in draconian, you know.
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: Hitting a gavel and saying this is because I said so, which I wouldn't do anyway.
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: That's how my manager saw it.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: But that process of getting people to buy into what you're doing and where you're going, help them see your vision, and you've created a team in almost total alignment.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: It's not always in alignment In alignment and I thought, looking back now, that paid me huge dividends throughout my career, because being a manager, you want to make sure your employees are happy.
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: We went through the pandemic and there was the quiet quitting and resignation, revolution and there was a titanic shift in employment.
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: So, even as a manager, when you're trying to hire people, they'll come in and it was a completely different personality or mindset for some employees entering the workforce or reentering, and it was now.
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: You have to be even twice as cognizant of how people are being treated.
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: It was now.
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: You have to be even twice as cognizant of how people are being treated, how they.
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: Are they satisfied with their work?
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: Are they you?
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: Know being compensated correctly and everything.
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: So the management aspect of it was was a big piece, Really sadly, I don't mean it to not have anything to do with accounting, but oh no, it's perfect.
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: That was a huge, especially as I was a young guy at the time.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: I was so young that it meant a lot to be able to have somebody as a mentor.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: That's awesome, that's so good.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: Um, last one, dan where can people get in touch with you?
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: They want to continue the conversation, they want to learn a little bit more about you.
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: Where, how can they reach you?
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: yeah, absolutely okay.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: So, um, I'll get'll first give you my email address, which is dan at atlascfosolutionscom.
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: So it's Dan D-A-N at A-T-L-A-S-C-F-O-S-O-L-U-T-I-O-N-Scom, my number is 860-865-4924, and my website is atlascfosolutionscom.
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: You can reach me any of those ways.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: I am on LinkedIn, daniel Dickinson.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: I'm on Facebook, I'm on Instagram as well, so I'm on social medias and they're on my website as well.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: You can link up there and be happy to help anybody, even if they just need to talk just as an assessment or try to get.
• 39:18
  Speaker 2: They've got a couple of questions or anything it's.
• 39:20
  Speaker 2: I have a very non-salesy approach to things.
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: I just want to help.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: So amazing, yeah, amazing.
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: We'll put all that in the show notes that people can get in touch.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: I highly recommend it.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: Dan, it's amazing what you're doing.
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for coming on the show sharing a little bit more about your story and your background.
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just I really enjoyed our conversation before getting you on the show.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: I truly love what you're doing and how you just want to help other people.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: So again, thank you so much for coming on.
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: The CFO Chronicles.
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: Thank you, James.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: I super appreciate it.
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: It was great pleasure to be here.
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: Thanks for tuning into this episode of CFO Chronicles the secrets behind success.
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: It was great A insights we share here.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: Second, if you're ready to take your business to the next level and attract the high-end clients you deserve, head over to accountingleadsnowcom or click the link in the show notes to book your strategy.
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: Call it's time to position yourself as the advisor your clients need.
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: And don't forget you can connect with me on LinkedIn to stay up to date on what's happening in the world of accounting and financial growth.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: We've got exciting topics coming up, so stay tuned for the next episode of CFO Chronicles.
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: Until then, keep pushing forward your growth is just one strategic move away.
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: Thanks for listening to CFO Chronicles the secrets behind success.
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: We hope today's episode provided valuable strategies to help you attract more high paying clients.
• 41:00
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• 41:04
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• 41:09
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• 41:13
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