Latest / The Midlife Rebel Podcast / How A Teacher Faced Trauma, Fought Loneliness, And Chose Herself - Roanna White

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How A Teacher Faced Trauma, Fought Loneliness, And Chose Herself - Roanna White · The Midlife Rebel Podcast

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Midlife Rebel Podcast.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's time to rewrite the Midlife story for women who refuse to be put in a box.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: Because maybe midlife isn't a crisis.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's an awakening.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: My guest today is Rowanna White, a senior teacher, parent, and solo traveller who brings both lived experience and professional insight to some of life's biggest questions.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: After a difficult divorce and the slow grief of becoming an empty nestor, Roanna is building her identity through healing trauma, solo travel, and building a business that's exploring ways to tackle loneliness.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: I have an inkling that this conversation today is going to be one of real talk about life as a midlife woman.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, Roanna.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's really good to have you here, and I'm kind of a little bit excited about where things might go today.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, thank you for having me, but you're welcome to call me Ro as well.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: My friends call me Ro.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Cool, thank you.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um okay, where should we start?
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think that from what I have gathered from the little bits of um information I've been plucking from here and there, your blog, your Instagram, um the bio that you've put into our guest directory.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um our conversation is, as I said, I feel like it's going to be one of real talk about this position we find ourselves in in the middle of our lives where there can be a lot of upheaval.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: For some it can be small, for others, it can be a big, you know, wake-up call.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, I feel like that's kind of the direction that that we're potentially heading in.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: And that when I mentioned real talk, um, yeah, like what is life throwing at us and you know, how are we navigate navigating those challenges and those changes?
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, definitely.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: Look, you know, the last I say four years have really um really pushed me to my limits.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I've had my own mental health issues, I've had children with mental health issues, uh, also dealing with some other pretty significant events that have happened in our lives.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: And um when you're down the bottom, um, you know, I often think about it as being under the water.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, you you reach the bottom and the seaweeds wrapped around your legs and you're trying to kick free, you know, you're trying to kick free to get back to the service, surface.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it's about how how can I get that seaweed to let go and you know, resurface back into this beautiful world.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's really uh that kind of brought up for me the fact that so much of this is an internal experience as well, isn't it?
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's this, yes, there are some external things that might be going on, but a lot of the processing is going on inside, and so we're expected to kind of just be getting on with life, and to the outside eye, maybe everything does seem quite okay, but yeah, we can be unraveling the sea weed.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, no one no one knew the the actual extent of how bad my mental health issues were.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: I would still get up every day, I would still go to work, I had a very have a very important position, like a head of department.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm responsible for managing, you know, 11 staff, um, as well as coordinating curriculum.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and when a few years later, when I actually said to them, you know, I would be sitting in our office having intrusive thoughts, I could see the shock on their face.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: I've known these people for years, and they just couldn't believe it.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: They were like, but you just sold it on.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, well, I felt that I had to, but I now actually realize um on self-reflection that I should have stopped.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I should have given myself some time, some more self-care, some more self-love.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: But I couldn't because I had teenage children and they were already going through their battles as well, and I just couldn't up and leave them.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it's it's one of those where we say rock and hard places.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you you're a mother, um, your kids are entering this new phase where they don't want you, but they want you to be around.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: They're lying on their beds for hours watching TikTok.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: They might grunt at you and they come out to get some food in the kitchen.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then you're also struggling, thinking, well, I'm sitting on the couch, you know, or scrolling through my phone, and um I could be out doing something, but then they judge if you're not there.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like I actually had one of my daughters tell me a few times when I did go out that I wasn't being a mother.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm seeing this thing said to her, But are you gonna come and sit spend time with me?
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: And she said, No.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Well, then why do I have to be at home?
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: And it's that that very much that internal debate, that guilt.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, your children know how to play the guilt button so well.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but they're also they're also moving through, they're also becoming young, young adults, they're also finding their place in the world.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, she one of them really struggled with the thought of becoming 18 and becoming an adult and and thinking, you know, what where do I go after school?
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: What happens to me?
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: How why all of a sudden at 18?
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: Am I expected to behave a certain way?
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: And all of those challenges come along with having gone through a terrible separation, a divorce, re-entering the dating world, which can be scary enough for anyone at any age.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then trying to maintain a career.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: I was also doing my master's, um, you know, because that was important to me.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: I started my master's in education and English as a second language because I'm very passionate about migration, uh, sorry, immigration um in Australia.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I just yeah, was doing all of these things, but still feeling really, really lonely.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: You get there's there was a lot there that we could like start to dig into.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um well, parenting, mothering is one of the biggest, if not the biggest challenge of our lives, isn't it?
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: The the one comforting thing that I find about being a parent or being a mother is that many people have gone before us and we've all come out the other side and we keep doing it, so something must be okay about it.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: But it's one of those biggest things because you do like I've got I started a little late in life, so I had Louie when I was 40 and Winnie when I was almost 42, so they're now nine and a half and 11.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm kind of in in still in it.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um that but you know, um you really well I'm yeah, I'm 46 next week.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: I've got a 20-year-old son, um, and two identical twin girls that are 18.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um so they like they're amazing.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: I I love them to death, you know.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, I often say you love them the most when they're asleep.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: I remember going when they're little and looking at them and just thinking, oh, that's so beautiful.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then they wake up.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then the children.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: Make a noise, tell you that you what you've cooked for them is not good enough.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, totally.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: What's the dinner?
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: I don't like that, you know, all those dead little things that you hear within within the household.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: And and you know that then I look back at it and think, because I have amazing conversations with my children.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: We can talk about absolutely anything, and my son often comments on that, which for him being the oldest and a boy, I feel is really important.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we do like he'll even come to me to discuss sexual things.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean, initially at the beginning, I was sort of like, oh, uh, like, do I really want to have this conversation?
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: But then you stop and reflect and you think, well, what an amazing relationship that you've created that he feels comfortable enough to come and tell you that I want to be the parent that they ring and say, Mum, you know, we need you to pick us up from this place and you can ask your questions later because they know I will, you know, because I just want them to know that I'm always there for them.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: But my priority is for them to be safe.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a massive responsibility, isn't it?
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, that like we're navigate, although it is one of those things that lots of people have done before, which is what being a human's all about.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: But we're not really given a um when we're kind of just winging it, aren't we?
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: We're figuring out like what happened in my world when I was a kid, what would I do differently, what do I think my kids need?
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, basically we're winging it.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: Look, I had the most amazing parents, so I had really, really good role models.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: Once again, I could go and speak to my mum about anything, and they're still there for me today.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like my dad's 79, my mum's 73, and and they're still supporting me and my children.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: And what I loved about it is, you know, I believe it does take a community to raise kids, and they've always been there for them.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they've become a huge priority for them.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: They're actually living with my parents at the moment because um, well, one of our struggles is we've got a stalker that lives next door to us, and he um he's obsessed with my daughters, and then that also then started to involve me.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: And we had to go somewhere for my children to be safe, and my parents just opened their doors and you know, allowed us to come back in.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: So they're such wonderful people.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then I look back, and I'm gonna say I was one of I was like a probably a perfect child, right?
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I did everything, made sure I followed the rules.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: But quite recently, um, as part of my journey in self-discovery, I undertook somatic experience therapy um because normal CBT wasn't working for me.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it had it had its benefits.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying that it doesn't, but I just didn't seem to find that underlying issue.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: What was it?
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: And through the somatic therapy, um the repressed memories have come forward, and I've now realized that I was sexually abused.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I can um relate a lot of that to my behaviors over the years and why I was so good, because I knew I had to be to be good because this person had told me if I, you know, told anybody or did anything, then well, he was going to kill me, basically.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: And here I am thinking about you know, thinking back now I was around four or five years of age, and you know, going and cleaning myself up afterwards because I didn't want my mum to know.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like you just I sit there and think about how how could such a young, you know, child know that that still wasn't okay and and to hide it.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then I feel like throughout then the rest of my life that's had huge influences on me.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um we used to live in a pub and so the smell of alcohol really has affected me my whole life.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: I rarely drink, and I now realize it's all relates back to those, you know, that what the perpetrator was doing, how he also smelt.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and this intense need to feel safe.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: And also then I put that on to my children in in the worry that they weren't safe.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: And from doing that, I that's why I was a good kid.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I did everything my parents wanted, that's why I got good grades, that's why I just lied on my bed and read books.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um because I was just being that good girl.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I now realize I've missed probably a lot of opportunities of um, you know, I was never a typical teenager.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: I never did the going out and drinking and having fun in my 20s.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: And when I got divorced, all of a sudden I thought to myself, um, so I was with my ex-husband from 17 to 41.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he'd been my only partner.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then at 41, I'm like, okay, I'm in my 20s.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: Except I've got three teenage children.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I did, I started going out again, I started enjoying myself, you know, meeting new people.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: But then I had the issues with one of my daughters, and I had to support her, and I had just started coming out of my mental health um uh journey.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but because I sort of stopped everything again for me, the C Wing latched on again and then I got pulled back under.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, thank you so much for being so candid with sharing some of those experiences uh with us or with me right now.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, I think that the all of these things are really important, and although it is it's really hard to come face to face with those experiences, this is a real um essential part of your growth, isn't it?
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: And you're uh moving into the second part of your life.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and often that does happen.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: I've spoken to so many people who like we kind of reach this point, and and all of a sudden all of this shit starts to emerge that you didn't even realize was there.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: My yes, myself, I was a drinker throughout my teens, uh throughout my entire life, and I stopped drinking nearly four years ago, and that was when all of the stuff started to uh yeah, all of the you know, stuff that I realized I'd just been covering up for my entire life has now come come to be dealt with.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like it's yeah, it's an essential part of our growth, and we can choose to do it or not do it, to run away from it or to stay down there and unravel the seaweed.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think everyone's like when you speak to people about mental health, it's still a bit of a taboo topic, and that's why you know I want to come in here and I want to talk about it, and I want to say everyone's experience is different.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I never used to believe in mental health.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: I used to believe that people should just get up, go for a run, do some exercise, that you're gonna be okay, you know?
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then all of a sudden, my thing started first.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: It started with gastric issues, that you know, really bad reflux, then it was not being able to sleep and having insomnia, then the intrusive thoughts started.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, you know, I'm still getting up, I'm still trying to exercise, but then the gastric issues were stopping that.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and everybody, my sensations were also very physical.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I kept saying this to the doctors, you know, the GP, and they would would just not listen.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: And to me, that was a key thing.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like I the muscles in my body would feel like rocks.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'd have pins and needles in certain areas of my body.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, this is not normal, you know.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: I was taking medication, um, antidepressants, and and I was thinking there has to be more to this, you know.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: I I tried hypnotherapy for for sleeping, and that didn't work for me, but I know it's worked for others.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I was going to naturopaths to make sure I'd eat properly.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I'd read a lot about the somatic therapy.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: And when it talked about that it was helping your body process those past traumas which your nervous system hasn't been able to finish yet, um, I realized that that sounded like exactly what I'd needed.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: And the um like instructor or counsellor and that said to me, you know, this is about trauma.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, I haven't had any trauma.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I've got wonderful parents, I've got a great job, but you know, just the normal money issues anyone has, you know, with the increasing cost of living in Australia and got really good kids in the end.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: And and it would take about four months before, in one session, um, I started screaming at him to move away from me.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd always remembered a shadow in a doorway.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: So that that image has always been with me.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I just thought to myself, I was a young kid, and it would have been a shadow that made me feel scared.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then all of a sudden, the shadow had a face, and then all of a sudden, the memories of what he had done when he came into the room came back.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then I realized and had more sessions that um yeah, that it was sexual abuse.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's really interesting and um significant that you say that you've experienced mental health issues, but that it it represented it came out in bodily in your body that that um yeah, we often think of you know uh the mental health issues with just it's negative self-thought.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: I I mean, I don't know what other experiences you had.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but that you were actually experiencing physical discomfort and illness because of uh an unprocessed experience.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like I I just couldn't come to the like I've actually been always had like a lot of confidence, you know.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I don't have a lot of negative talk in my head.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm not berating myself, I'm not saying what I'm doing is wrong, and everything you read sort of pushes you towards that.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: And and I'm just like, this just doesn't sound like me, you know.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um my intrusive thoughts were around knives.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: So my ex-husband used to have a lot of fishing knives around, and I think that that came up with another safety thing, like they were very sharp, they weren't safe.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I never thought about using them on myself or anything like that, but there was this constant thought of knowing where every knife was in the house or knowing where something sharp was, and you started to think that you're going insane, you know, because you're thinking, why is this all I can think about?
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: But then through my research and stuff myself, I've now realized that intrusive thoughts are actually trying to protect you.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: So they're saying to you, you're not safe, like you're not safe.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: There's something that's not safe.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I've started saying to myself, like I've had them so like less frequently now, but when I do have one, because they say they're gonna pop up and I'm sure they will at stressful times in life, I'm now saying to my body, thank you for telling me that you think that I'm unsafe, but I really am safe.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: And but thank you for letting me know that I might not be safe at this time.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then I look around and I say to myself, is there anything here that's going to make me unsafe?
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: And we just I just scan the environment and I try to tell my body that it's it's okay, like it is going to be okay, because really your mind is just trying to protect you.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: And another thing I started looking into was chanting because there has to be something in that.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like the Indians, the Tibetans, you know, monks have chanted for years and years.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I spoke to a really good friend who uh is in the Indian chants every day, and he, you know, he's told me to start chanting about Hare Krishna and Rama.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I did that and I thought, but this doesn't mean anything to me because I wasn't raised with this.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I started um chanting things to myself that I needed to do.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: So one of the things initially was I needed to set boundaries.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I started chanting to myself, I set boundaries, you know, I set boundaries.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, one of them other ones was I deserve to be loved the way that I am, because I'd been in a bit of a situationship and he didn't want to progress that any further.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: And like in the end, I'm a pretty good person, right?
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: So why wouldn't you want to be with me?
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: But in the uh instead of internalizing that, um, you know, I did say, you know, I deserve to be loved at the way that I, you know, the way that I am.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: But the one main word that resonated with me was power.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I felt like my power had been taken away.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: My power had been taken away during my marriage from my husband.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it had been taken away when my you know daughter had her issues because I couldn't, you know, control that anymore.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we had the stalker and he took the power away.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and there were some things that happened at work that changed my job where I had, you know, no control or anything over it as well.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I one of the things I also tendered was I had the power.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: And to make sure that I was telling myself that no matter what, um I don't have to go along with the decisions that these people make.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I am my own person.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's really important that now I make decisions for me, which is really hard because I've always put other people first because I am very much a giver.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I want other people to be happy.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I would do stuff that I shouldn't have because I wanted that other person to be happy.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: But now I realize, you know, with age, which is a good thing when you hit 40 and you've got a bit more life experience, that um, yeah, I do have the power and nobody can make me do anything or that I don't want to do anymore.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, girl.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's uh yeah, and have you noticed that the more you like start to recognize these patterns in your life, like that that particular word power, have you noticed that the more work you do, the more awareness that you bring to those situations, the the the less reactive you might be in those circumstances?
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, totally.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was really reactive, like you know, if anyone said anything, like my emotions would first like burr up and you know, be yelling back at someone, and I'm not really a yeller, but it was at that stage that it was just like I was felt like there was no power or control, and and so having you know kids in their teens, like you you don't know what you're gonna get on which day.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: And and then all of a sudden, when I realized that, you know, I do have that power, like I could now sit there and process things, allow myself to have the time, give myself permission to wait.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I used to respond to text messages immediately, like I can put it to the side now, I could take my time to think about it, to know that, you know, just wait for that rational thoughts to to return, um, and then then make your decisions.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: Which I think is a real um signifies that growth and that evolution and that processing of the stored um trauma and um and so on.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: Do you still have do you still go to the trauma, the somatic therapy?
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um no, I've stopped the somatic therapy, but I have kept up the CVT.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I was doing them both at the same time.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: And now that the um a lot of the memories have come forward, and then they started coming forward outside of that type of therapy.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: I knew then that I needed to be able to talk to someone.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I already have this really good relationship with my psychologist, and then I could talk to him about things like how do I tell my parents?
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: Because um you never want to tell your parents something like that because they did their best always to keep me safe.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: They did their best for me to have a wonderful childhood.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: And mum had just been diagnosed with cancer, she was undergoing treatment.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I I knew for months and months before I thought I could tell her because I didn't want to add to what she was currently going through, but she was always my main support person, you know.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then not being able to speak to her for a while um was really, really difficult.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, when I finally told them, um it was it was very hard.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I was gonna tell mum because usually I tell mum and then mum tells dad.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: But dad happened to be there as well, which was probably a good thing um for them both to hear it.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, sh said to me I could talk to her about it.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then I said, I just want you to think about that, because you can never unhear what you're going to hear.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I went away, uh, or she sh I would, you know, left her with that to think about.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: And she thought about it probably for a month or so, and she said, I'm ready to hear it now if you want me to.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I spoke to my psychologist, and it he said to me, Um, you know, why why don't you tell her?
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Because I don't want her to have any guilt.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I said, Because me as a mother, if one of my children came to me and said that, you know, I I feel that I would feel guilt.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, but what if she doesn't?
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: And what that's her journey to process.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: But he also said, you know, it's your decision if you want to tell her.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's your decision what you want to tell her or when you want to tell her.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: And she reached out to me again and she said, you know, let's meet up, let's have a talk about it.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I let her know that still at the moment I'm not ready.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, it's enough that she knows that it happened.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I said, she just wanted to know that I'm safe, you know, and she um she said, you might need someone to talk to.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Well, I have my psychologist and I also have my best friend.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I've been able to speak to both of them.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I said, I'm feeling supported.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but also because of all of this and all the other external factors that have been happening in my life, um, I'm taking term four off work because I'm lucky that I've got long service leave.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: And therefore I'm going to travel.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I've got a trip book to Nepal and India, um, which I'm really excited about because one of the things I started doing as an interest um, because I had time because I wasn't running the kids to football on the weekend anymore, was um Bollywood dancing.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, how cool.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: It is really cool.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I started doing that um outside of school, but we also have a cultural show at the school that I work at, and uh I work with a Fiji Indian lady and also a um uh in this uh uh Indian lady that's Sikh, and for a couple of years now we've um put on the Bollywood show, and I have to say I feel we get the biggest round of applause because it's so the music is so joyful, the dance moves are so happy, um, you can do it on your own.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like I went to Salsa initially, and I was like, you can't do that unless you've got a partner, you know, and it's really difficult.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I just wanted to do something that gave me joy.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I found out that Bollywood dancing has given me a lot of joy.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: And um the school group, we got invited to dance at the Festival of India at Dream Worlds.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: We've danced at a movie premiere for a friend's movie called Langophobia.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it was just, you know, the last few months just from being associated with that dance have been really fulfilling to me.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, well, I've got to go to Mumbai.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: Are you going on your own?
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: So most of my travel is solo.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because I I don't have a partner.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but also I've found over the years that I've gotten back into traveling, I meet the most amazing people when I travel on my own.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: Who could say they were at the top of the marina bay sands sitting at a table with a you know 34-year-old Dutch lady, a 20-year-old, one-year-old German student, and you know, at the time I think I was 44, you know, 44 Aussie woman, and we're sitting around just talking about the world and our travels.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: If I was with family, if I was with friends, that wouldn't happen, you know.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that experience wouldn't happen.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that the solo travel, while a lot of people um say, oh, I could never do that, or I think you've got to open yourself up to the idea.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, first of all, go somewhere you think's a bit safe.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: The first time I did it years and years ago, I went to Bali and I met a friend over there.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: But then my first solo solo travel was to Thailand.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I spent two weeks traveling around Thailand, and then last year I went to Singapore and Vietnam.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I've I've gone to those places where I feel um, you know, I was generally knew I would feel safe.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and now I'm trying to go a bit further afield to uh India.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: So the travel, your travel, did that start before your relationship ended?
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, were you kind of or has this been part of your um your process?
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's been part of my process.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: So my one thing after the divorce and everything got finalized because that took a very long time, because he um just wanted to make it difficult.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um I promised myself a trip.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: So that was the trip to Thailand.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: And um then from there I thought, no, then the next year I thought I need to go somewhere else because that's the thing for me.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um when I was in Vietnam, actually, I I was probably I almost didn't go because I'd gotten low again.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: But I just thought to myself, you can't let that or fear like stop you.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you at least have to get over there.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: And once you're there, you know, you'll have those distractions.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then this trip, as I said, came about after the repressed memories coming up and and then just deciding, you know what, you've dealt with so much, it's time to have a really good long break.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's time to go away and um, you know, go and visit the places where they they are chanting, go and see all these different cultures.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um initially, what sparked me about India was my dad, who is very middle-class white Australian, um, doesn't like dirt, doesn't like pollution, doesn't, doesn't really, you know, branch too far with his food.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: He went there a number of years ago and he came back and told me India is the most fascinating place that he's ever been in his life.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that started initial interest.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then through my English as a second language um and interest in immigration, I've made a lot of friends that are like Indian, Pakistani, Nepalese, and just talking to these people about their culture and it and them being open and and and willing to share it with me, um, just made me want to go and visit this place where they're from.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, cool.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um do you feel like you're finding out who you are?
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because for all those years, I'd say like 40 odd years, uh, I was forcing myself to be a certain person, you know?
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and for a number of years, I was just a wife, a mother, a friend, uh a worker, but I really wasn't doing anything for me, what I call to fill my bucket, you know, it was always emptying my bucket into other people's.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I I think now we're starting to do the things for myself and take the time to care for myself.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like even the smallest things now I'm grateful for, like actually putting moisturizer on my legs after a show or you know, things that I was like previously didn't even think of because you didn't have the time.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: You're busy, right?
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you'd be, you know, I'd go for a run in the morning, and then I you'd quickly be rushing out the door to go to work, and then you'd rush back in the door and try and cook a 20-minute dinner before you took one kid to AFL, and then the next one had to go there, and you had to watch it because the training was like half an hour away, and then you have to come back again, and then we eat, and then you got to clean up, and then it's washing, and then it's bedtime, and then it's just rinse and repeat, and there's just no time for yourself in there.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas I I really would like to say to women, you need to schedule time, like you deserve time.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: My ex-husband carved a lot of time out for himself, which made it difficult.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: But that was a good thing in hindsight when I look back on it.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he was very busy, he was a great provider for the family, he worked really hard, but then he enjoyed himself and his downtime, whereas I never got to do that, or I did it.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: And and that's my fault, you know.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm not saying I'm not putting the blame on it.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I should have pushed or I should have let the relationship finish earlier, you know, but in the end, it was my decision to do all those things, and I now realize it's my decision to put myself first, and that's why this trip is happening because it's it's time for me.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: How has your this shift uh changed people's perspective of you?
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's another really good thing.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_00: I don't really care.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I used to worry a lot, obviously, what other people thought.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I'm I'm very professional in my job, you know, I'll I like to be thought of as, you know, somebody that's a good role model for others.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: And then in the end, now that I've opened myself up and started exploring a lot of different things, um if people knew half of what I've done, they'd be really surprised.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, my really good friends and family know, um, because they're the people that should, because I've realized I've I can't hide things anymore.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: And that's because I hid something, you know, for nearly 40 years.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: So the people that are really important to me, they know what's going on in my life.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: They know some of the more interesting things that have happened.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but the other people, I don't care.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: But then when I do my travels, I get messages like I I write a little post of it on my Facebook page, and I'll get messages from you know, friends on there saying, you know, this is so um inspiring.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: I love reading them.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: People will say to me, When are you going away again?
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: I can't wait to see them.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: Or someone will message and say that you're so brave, I could never do that.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then I say, What?
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: Why could you never do that?
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing it.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: So does that mean anybody can do it?
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: And then people message you saying, you know, I was there in you know, 1982 and this and that, and and it just connects you in another way.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: And um, as I said, one of the biggest things for me was loneliness.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I like I've got, you know, I've got really good close friends.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, as I said, I've got amazing parents, um, great colleagues, you know, it's like a family when we get to work, but I was still lonely.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: And that loneliness started inside my marriage when I reflect on it.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I remember standing there one day, coming home after work, the kids were upstairs, um, you know, my ex-husband was, you know, right on and said he wasn't going to be home till seven.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I just standing there and thinking, what am I doing?
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what what is my life become?
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm here, I've got a beautiful family, and I shouldn't be feeling loneliness.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: And that has sort of led me to um create this business that I'm starting up.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's like a website app.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's basically hire a friend.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: So what I found, what I found was um, you know, I'd be text a friend and say, Do you know, do you want to go out and try this new restaurant?
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_00: Or do you want to go out for a coffee?
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: Or how about we try this Pilates?
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: And they're in the same situation.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: Most of my friends are single mums, and no, I've got the kids this week, or I don't have them next week, and we just couldn't coordinate things.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: And because my kids are a little bit older than everyone's, they've still got younger ones.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's um, you know, my life became totally different.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I would thought to myself, you know what, I'd happily go on a website, look at people's profiles, decide you look interesting, and I'll pay you whatever the the the work the friend gets to decide their rate.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I pay somebody 50 bucks to come to a concert with me and pay for their ticket.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have you done it?
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: I would.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I would no, I haven't done it yet, but I would.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: But then when I started talking about the business idea, um, people would say to me, Oh, that'd be great.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like, um, you know, you just moved to an area and you um don't want to go somewhere by yourself.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you can um jump online and book somebody to go with you, or a girlfriend of mine, her dad's in his 80s and loves the theatre, but she's single mum and got all the care for her kids, and he always wants her to go and she can't manage that.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_00: So she said, Oh, she'd happily go online and book for him, you know, to go with somebody and take him to the theatre.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because then he's happy as she's happy knowing that he's or you know, also having his needs fulfilled.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not about romance, it's not about therapy, it's just about connection, which I feel in uh Western cultures that we're really, really missing these days.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_01: I want to talk to you a bit more about that, but I'm just curious.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, like the thing that pops into my head, I love the idea, and I love the idea of connecting people.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um the payment thing.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have to pay someone?
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_01: Look, I that one works up for me.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: And also safety, like how would you so the safety thing is pretty much similar to if you do go on a banking or dating website.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_00: So there's like the selfie check, and they have to put in their license or their passport.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: Because to me, that's what it's all about, safety, and you know how concerned I am about safety with what's happened to me.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_00: So that will be really stringent.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: The reason for the payment is because that's sort of my other side and my other passion.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it allows people to have a side gig.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: So everybody needs a side gig these days to have that little bit of extra money to go out and you know to do something.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not going to be like very expensive because the people will just price themselves out.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: But I just think by receiving that money, there's that commitment that'll be made that that person will actually show up.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because I find if you do things for free, people will just say, Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, and then they don't turn up, you know.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, if someone's going to pay me$20 to have a coffee with them or$20 to go to a concert, and I get a free ticket, then yes, I will.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: But hopefully, in the end, on outside of the app, if they do then form their own friendship or relationship, then that's great too.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: That that's to me what the outcome is going to be.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's the initial connection.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: So people will be able to search on, you know, gender, language, what activities you enjoy doing, um, age, you know, similar to a dating website, but it really just is about um being able to connect with somebody and and you can still have friends and be on there.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's not saying that you don't have friends.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think it'll be good for people that are potentially neurodivergent, you know, because they do struggle with making friends.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um and for me, having experienced that real deep feelings of loneliness, I don't want that to happen for other people.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um so if I can create connections and then they can develop further um into friendships and they move away from the site, then that would be the best solution possible for me.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_01: How far ahead are you with it?
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: Or is it um so the landing page is up so people will be able to go and um will be up today actually.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_00: They'll be able to go and register their initial interest.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then we're still um in the processes of making uh the final website for people to be able to put their profiles up.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: So that hopefully be ready to go at the beginning of next year.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: But just wanting to get an idea of the you know initial interest for people, um they can jump on the website.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_00: So it's um it's called Yankia, which is a derivation of the word for friend in Armenian.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_00: Don't ask me why, but I was googling different ways to say friend, and that's what came up.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_00: So it's y-n-k y-r.com.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and our logo is yaks, and it the whole thing is about joining the herd.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: So it's joining together, having that connection, and and yaks are just cute, right?
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_00: They're very cute.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_00: They're very cute.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_00: So um, yes, I've been developing or thinking about this idea now for a while, and I've finally been through my journey, through my healing, through all the self-discovery, being able to say, okay, I'm actually, you know, I'm as I said, nearly 45.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's a pretty big risk to be investing all this money in it.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_00: But for me, it just feels like it's the right thing to do.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_01: Love it.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: You've obviously with throughout the conversation, you've spoken about your own feeling of loneliness.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_01: You've really you've identified this as a big problem, and we hear people talk about it all the time.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_01: How and you've seen it in in the education system, right?
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: You work in a in a school.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um what do you think is going on?
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think that the disconnection is part of um what where does it come from?
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_01: Why?
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_01: Why is it happening?
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, they talk about an epidemic of loneliness, and I think it stems back to um so if I could consider Eastern and Western cultures, Western cultures have become very selfish and self-absorbed.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we no longer know our neighbours' names, you know.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um the issues I've had with the police and and saying to them, can't you just go and knock on this person's door and say, hey mate, you know, it might be a good idea to stop.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_00: They're not even prepared to do that.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I just think, like in the day, you know, the police officer would have known everybody in the community, would have rocked around, he would have said, hey, that's not on, pull your head in, and and things would have continued on.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I just think that we become so self-absorbed and focused on, you know, earning for ourselves.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, it's important to support your family, but it's also important to be aware of like other people in your community that are struggling.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like people are walking past homeless people in the street and and not even giving it a second thought, you know.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas I'm one of those people that are stopping and saying, Can I get you something?
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'll never give them money because my grandfather always said to me, I'll offer them food, um, you know, always go and buy them food or something like that.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_00: But to think that we've become a society where it's acceptable to not stop and help somebody, you know.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think in Australia in particular, you know, we always used to be like we had the Aussie butlers and we give each other a hand, but it's it's disappeared.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_00: And from, as I said, becoming friends with different people, like I find the Sikh community in Australia amazing.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_00: They or once a year you have this thing called the Sikh Games where they get together and they play all different types of sport.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, I've been fortunate enough to go along and watch that.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then you see when the floods and the fires are on, you know, they they're cooking food and they're out there taking it to people.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what community should be about, you know.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and they're they're new people to Australia, they're immigrants, but they're they're wanting to share and become part of our community.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_00: And and when the recent rallies happened um all around Australia, um, and it turned out to be, you know, pro-testing the immigration laws, I'm I'm sitting there thinking, these people are contributing so much to our society.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_00: They're doing the jobs that we won't do.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_00: They're working in nursing homes, they're doing, you know, the lower level jobs, they're our Uber and DD drivers, you know, and I take my time to speak to them all, and they got master's degrees and they got this and that, but they come to Australia and just to have a better opportunity, they're happy to do these jobs, you know, but they're also contributing so much.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_00: And and they, you know, if you take I I'm not a religious person, um, and if you take the religion out of it, if you know, whether it's Sikh or Hindi or whatever, they're still gathering every week as a community.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_00: They're supporting each other.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_00: They know that they can contact somebody if they need to, um, and someone there will help them.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_00: And we just don't have that anymore.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that is the biggest thing about loneliness.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it was intensified after COVID.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think you know, we all stayed home.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we all did the right thing, which is what we thought we needed to do at the time, but we just isolated ourselves even more.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, we're sitting there binge watching, you know, a whole Netflix series where, you know, in our day we used to get excited waiting once a week for the for the release.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_00: And and that was a simple joy in life.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: And and now you don't even have that.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was obsessed with Beverly Hills 902 and oh, and I couldn't wait for every like Sunday night to see Dylan and Brendan and you know, the the whole gang.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_00: But it's now everything's just instantaneous, and we just expect to have it there and then, and and the commun that that just takes us away from getting outside, speaking to people.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and as I express that's something really important to me.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like I used to be um one of the run directors at a local park run.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, that's that's another great community thing that's free.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_00: They when you look, there's so many things out there that are free for people to attend to and become part of your community.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, people are just not seeking those opportunities anymore.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's quite a quite a um thing, isn't it?
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's like where do you where do you start?
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_01: Because it can be a bit of a perpetual cycle as well, I think, especially um with social media.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, for example, you know, if a person has a phone and they're on their phone, um their desire to connect probably diminishes, but then they feel lonely because they're not connecting.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_00: And you see it when you go out for dinner, like there's friends at the table that they're on their phone.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I was out for dinner the other night with some friends, and they had um, you know, two two teenage boys there, and the uncle said to them, I'll I'll give you five dollars a half an hour that you don't touch your phone.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_00: And and well, it was funny at the time, you could actually see, like he's one of them in particular, he's body changing.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_00: You can see that he wanted to touch his phone.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not saying that's just children because I go on detoxes as well, because yeah, I can be there doing the doom scrolling too.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_00: But and I think there's a place for it.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying that it shouldn't be there.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_00: There's some really good stuff on social media.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but we've also got to put it down and and realize that we're going to get more from life if we communicate with humans in person.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_01: As we come towards uh the end of our conversation, is that like I think that that message is very clear.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um is there anything you would like to add?
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, for me, it's just about um, I think why I'm doing this.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's just about women, in particular around our age, you know, you feel like you hit 40 and you feel like you're told it's doomsday, menopause is looming, you're about to dry up, nothing's gonna be good.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's all over over.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_00: You're done.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_00: You always all and and I think you've got to stop and think, no, that's not true.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_00: We're now entering the phase, you know, we've raised and nurtured our children, or we're sort of getting towards the end of that.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, there's so much out there for you to do.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_00: Don't let your partner stop you from doing something, you know.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_00: Don't let yourself think I can't do that because you know what if I step out.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not I'm the only white woman in my Bollywood dance class.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_00: So you can imagine, like, I'm not very coordinated.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm not, I'm not, you know, my hips don't wiggle, like, you know, and but they've been so accepting and so supportive, and and you're already judging yourself before you even get there, you know.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I think that we do that a lot.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, why not, you know, go and try something different, something that it's always been in your mind to do.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_00: And don't think that, as we said, that it's all over.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's just think it's time to begin again.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_01: I totally agree with that.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I love that.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's I've it's taken me a while.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm 51 now, and like I feel like my this process is it go it takes some time.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I said to someone not that long ago, I said, because uh I was like, I've just kind of realized that the first part was the warm-up.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_01: I totally get to you have all of those experiences and you get to kind of go, all right, now let's figure out what worked, what didn't, what I need to, yeah, what process to move on to like become this um new woman almost.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, exactly.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, when people talk about, you know, like women or whatever these days being queens, well, you know what?
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_00: Us in our 40s are queens.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_00: We've survived a lot, we've done a lot, and you know, we should be wearing that crown.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we should be out there rocking it, and we should be out there enjoying ourselves.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_01: Love it.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_01: What a brilliant message to end on.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm totally with you.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I think also, like I just just a quick add to that is you're, you know, you've you've been very generous with sharing your story and your experiences and that healing process that you've been through as well.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_01: And that's all part of kind of figuring things out, isn't it?
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_01: So that you can live your live your best midlife, let's say.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um and you do sometimes you do have to do the work to come out of it.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_00: The best advice a girlfriend said to me once I was there talking to her, and she's the kinesiologist, but I said to her, you know, um, I'm about to go and see a psychiatrist, you know, and the medication is not working, all of this type of stuff.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_00: And she said to me, Rowanna, you are relying on these people to heal you.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_00: You are the only person that can heal yourself.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then that made me think, and I realized you're right.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I decided to have a year of focusing on Rowanna, and I was, you know, put money into my health, uh, which you quite often don't do as a mum because you prioritize everybody else first.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, that that that time of um, well, the years are not up yet, but that time of, you know, spending money on me, and um, you know, I even did things like colonic therapy, which has been amazing and helped my gut issues.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you deserve it.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_00: You deserve your the time that you should give yourself, and you deserve to spend money on yourself.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_00: Stop putting yourself last.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_01: Love it.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_01: What a beautiful way to end.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for sharing your journey with us.
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, loved it.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_01: Beautiful.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_01: Have a great holiday.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_01: I will, I will.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_01: Hey there, Rebel.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for listening to this episode of the Midlife Rebel Podcast.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_01: If you'd like to support the show, you can buy me a coffee by going to buy me a coffee forward slash midlife rebel podcast.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for listening.