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The Impacts of Gambling · She's On The Money

0:00
Speaker 1: She's on the Money. She's on the Money.
0:23
Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast
0:26
Speaker 2: Millennials who Want Financial Freedom.
0:28
Speaker 3: Today, we're tackling a.
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Speaker 2: Really tough topic. It's a topic that has impacted so
0:33
Speaker 2: many of our listeners in devastating ways, and it's a
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Speaker 2: topic we think it's time to talk about gambling. Over
0:40
Speaker 2: the next forty minutes or so, we're going to talk
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Speaker 2: through the impacts gambling addiction can have on individuals and
0:46
Speaker 2: their loved ones, and we'll touch on why it's such
0:48
Speaker 2: a prevalent issue in Australia today. Plus we're also going
0:52
Speaker 2: to discuss exactly what you can do to help yourself
0:55
Speaker 2: or someone you love recover from problem gambling. My name
0:59
Speaker 2: is Georg King and joining me today is Victoria Divine.
1:03
Speaker 2: Before we get into things, let's hear how gambling has
1:07
Speaker 2: impacted our community.
1:08
Speaker 4: Hi.
1:08
Speaker 5: Gie, I was in a relationship with my ex boyfriend
1:10
Speaker 5: for about two years. He was a full on gambling
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Speaker 5: addicts would have spent over one hundred and fifty thousand
1:16
Speaker 5: dollars on gambling. I didn't find out until about a
1:19
Speaker 5: year into the relationship because he lied to me about
1:23
Speaker 5: everything was hiding everything used to borrow money from me
1:26
Speaker 5: all the time, nothing ever really added up. Also found
1:29
Speaker 5: out through a friend of a friend that he owed
1:31
Speaker 5: his ex girlfriend forty two thousand dollars. We worked together.
1:35
Speaker 6: And worked everything out.
1:36
Speaker 5: Once I found out, I tried to help him and
1:39
Speaker 5: I took charge of all of his finances, had charge
1:42
Speaker 5: of all his bank accounts, and sent him money only
1:44
Speaker 5: when he needed it so he didn't spend anything. We
1:48
Speaker 5: finally saved up for a trip to go overseas together
1:51
Speaker 5: to Bali. We were over there for a couple of weeks,
1:53
Speaker 5: and the last few days that we were there, I
1:56
Speaker 5: just sort of had an epiphany and was thinking, what
1:58
Speaker 5: the hell am I doing? Why am I doing this
2:00
Speaker 5: to myself?
2:00
Speaker 6: And then we broke up a couple days after we
2:03
Speaker 6: got home.
2:04
Speaker 7: Hey, Georgia, So I dated a guy for a year
2:06
Speaker 7: and a half. After a year together, I worked out
2:09
Speaker 7: that he was at least sixty thousand dollars in debt
2:12
Speaker 7: from gambling. He spent most weeks weekends when we went
2:16
Speaker 7: together at the casino, and after finding out the full
2:20
Speaker 7: extent of his debt, he had not got a plan
2:25
Speaker 7: or any drive to get himself out of the situation
2:27
Speaker 7: that I had to make the decision to get out
2:29
Speaker 7: of that relationship as it was something that I couldn't
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Speaker 7: continue with.
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Speaker 6: Hi, she's on the money.
2:34
Speaker 4: I am twenty two years old and would like to
2:35
Speaker 4: share my story on gambling addiction, something that touches my heart.
2:39
Speaker 4: I was only fifteen years old when I became aware
2:42
Speaker 4: of my mother's gambling addiction.
2:43
Speaker 6: She had forged around four hundred.
2:45
Speaker 4: And fifty thousand dollars worth of checks from her workplace
2:47
Speaker 4: to fund her gambling addiction. This resulted in a criminal
2:50
Speaker 4: investigation and imprisonment for nine months. I'm so pleased to
2:54
Speaker 4: hear that you were bringing awareness to this difficult topic
2:56
Speaker 4: and raising.
2:57
Speaker 6: More awareness on gambling addictions.
3:00
Speaker 8: I'm a full time student and I work casually in
3:02
Speaker 8: a pub as a bar and gaming attendant. I had
3:05
Speaker 8: never really experienced gambling addiction firsthand until I started working
3:09
Speaker 8: in the industry. I've never experienced it myself, however, it's
3:12
Speaker 8: something I see every single day, the same people coming
3:14
Speaker 8: in to play the Pokey's at eleven am and not
3:16
Speaker 8: leaving until five pm or later, some even going around
3:20
Speaker 8: playing the leftover money on other people's machines just in
3:22
Speaker 8: case it goes off. I've seen people win sums from
3:25
Speaker 8: one thousand dollars to thirty thousand dollars and some who
3:28
Speaker 8: put the whole amount back through machines. We wear pages
3:32
Speaker 8: so they don't have to get up from the machine
3:33
Speaker 8: for a drink, so they keep putting their money through.
3:36
Speaker 8: All soft drinks, coffees and teas are free, and we
3:39
Speaker 8: provide bar snacks free of charge to gaming patrons. I
3:42
Speaker 8: love the social aspect of my job, but it's so
3:44
Speaker 8: sad to see people throwing away their hard earned money
3:47
Speaker 8: or ask them to borrow from other patrons to feed
3:49
Speaker 8: their addictions.
3:50
Speaker 9: My brother has always been fantastic with his money, managed
3:53
Speaker 9: to save about ten thousand dollars before he turned eighteen.
3:56
Speaker 9: As soon as he did turn eighteen and discovered betting,
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Speaker 9: it was a number of days before he lost all
4:00
Speaker 9: of that money. Almost four years on. I have full
4:03
Speaker 9: control over his bank accounts and I have to drip
4:05
Speaker 9: feed him money for rent, bills and groceries because he
4:08
Speaker 9: cannot have any money in his account without gambling it away.
4:11
Speaker 6: He begs for help.
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Speaker 9: He's in counseling. He has banned himself from everything that
4:15
Speaker 9: he can, but unfortunately his impulsivity is what gets him.
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Speaker 9: He could have full control one second and be two
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Speaker 9: thousand dollars down the next second. I've been there every
4:23
Speaker 9: step of the way, and it is the most distressing,
4:25
Speaker 9: gut wrenching thing that I've ever had to go through.
4:28
Speaker 6: Georgia. That is a lot. But I think the thing
4:32
Speaker 6: that I'm really grateful for out of those five different
4:35
Speaker 6: experiences that we were really lucky to have shared with us,
4:39
Speaker 6: because those are really deep personal stories.
4:41
Speaker 3: Is that they were all so diverse. Yeah, exactly.
4:44
Speaker 6: I think going into this, you pulled these together. So
4:47
Speaker 6: I'm really grateful for that. I had nothing to do
4:49
Speaker 6: with that part of the podcast this week, and you've
4:52
Speaker 6: pulled this together. But for me as a financial advisor,
4:55
Speaker 6: I've heard similar stories to that historically. The thing that
4:58
Speaker 6: I just learned is that you get by snacks and
5:00
Speaker 6: drinks and coffee and tea to stay gambling.
5:03
Speaker 3: Unbelievable. I did not know that either.
5:06
Speaker 6: Naive, but yeah, I potentially am really naive when it
5:10
Speaker 6: comes to stuff like that. Like I know when it
5:12
Speaker 6: comes to gambling addiction, the psychological back end of that,
5:17
Speaker 6: and I guess you know addictive personalities and that it's
5:19
Speaker 6: actually beyond their control a lot of the time, and
5:22
Speaker 6: people just say, well, just stop. It's not as easy
5:24
Speaker 6: as that or nearly as simple. And I've heard so
5:28
Speaker 6: many stories from our community over the last two three
5:30
Speaker 6: years now of people saying, Yep, my partner was a gambler,
5:34
Speaker 6: my dad was gambling, or my mum was gambling, and
5:37
Speaker 6: it breaks my heart every time. But I think that
5:39
Speaker 6: piece that I just learned, Oh, that that really upsets me.
5:43
Speaker 6: I can't believe that's legal Georgia.
5:46
Speaker 2: And yeah, it feels pretty unethical and immoral, but I
5:50
Speaker 2: guess their business is at the end of the day,
5:52
Speaker 2: and their patrons in that business. I think what shocked
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Speaker 2: me as well as that ve was how much money
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Speaker 2: these people were spending. There was the girl whose partner
6:01
Speaker 2: spent one hundred and fifty k. He was one hundred
6:03
Speaker 2: and fifty k in debt from gambling.
6:05
Speaker 3: That's insane.
6:06
Speaker 2: The lady whose mother forged four hundred and fifty k
6:08
Speaker 2: worth of checks to cover up per gambling. Like, oh
6:12
Speaker 2: my god, these are huge numbers that we're hearing.
6:14
Speaker 6: Yeah, we're not just talking. Oh my boyfriend has the
6:17
Speaker 6: sports bet app and it really annoys me that he
6:20
Speaker 6: does that at night instead of watching tiktoks with me, Like,
6:23
Speaker 6: I know that that is so trivial, but I know
6:25
Speaker 6: that listening to this episode, a couple of people are
6:28
Speaker 6: probably going to be like, oh my gosh, are they
6:30
Speaker 6: going to tell me that the sports but app is
6:31
Speaker 6: the worst thing ever to have? And no, we're not,
6:34
Speaker 6: but we are going to say that it is a
6:36
Speaker 6: really slippery slope and if you are predisposed or have
6:39
Speaker 6: an addictive personality, this is something that you can put
6:43
Speaker 6: yourself in the position of accidentally. And I guarantee you
6:47
Speaker 6: nobody's signed up for those things. Nob he signed up
6:50
Speaker 6: to be one hundred and fifty thousand dollars in debt.
6:52
Speaker 6: But listening to those stories, it is rampant in our community.
6:56
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and we saw on the thread all of those
7:00
Speaker 2: voice notes came from community members and that they came
7:02
Speaker 2: from a thread in our community, and there were so
7:05
Speaker 2: many devastating stories. So yeah, this is going to be
7:09
Speaker 2: quite a hard topic today, I think.
7:12
Speaker 6: And a bit of a trigger warning here is, well,
7:14
Speaker 6: it's probably not the episode do you want to listen
7:17
Speaker 6: to if you've been through this, or it's something that's
7:19
Speaker 6: really going to trigger you. I mean, This is going
7:22
Speaker 6: to be really fact based and we're going to discuss it.
7:24
Speaker 6: But again, if this is a topic that's going to
7:26
Speaker 6: really upset you, maybe give it a skip. We've got
7:28
Speaker 6: two other episodes this week that you could tune into
7:30
Speaker 6: that I'm sure are going to be lighter in content. Absolutely,
7:33
Speaker 6: but Georgia, do you reckon we should get into it?
7:35
Speaker 3: Absolutely?
7:36
Speaker 2: Be all right? So I want to start by talking
7:39
Speaker 2: about the most recent stats that came from the Australian
7:43
Speaker 2: Gaming Council. So they revealed that in twenty seventeen to
7:47
Speaker 2: twenty eighteen, Australian's lost twenty four billion dollars on gambling.
7:52
Speaker 2: Twenty four billion.
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Speaker 6: That is a lot of money. And Georgia, we're talking
7:56
Speaker 6: about this before because I was like, George, how do
7:58
Speaker 6: we can textualize that number? Anybody? One billion dollars sounds
8:02
Speaker 6: like a lot of money, but twenty four billion dollars,
8:05
Speaker 6: To just give you a little bit of a comparison,
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Speaker 6: the fast food and takeaway services industry in Australia is
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Speaker 6: worth twenty one billion dollars. So we are spending three
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Speaker 6: billion dollars more on gambling than we are macs Chippy's
8:20
Speaker 6: George which.
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Speaker 2: Is really bloody. Is surprising, don't you think?
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Speaker 6: Yeah, And that's why I wanted to contextualize it a
8:27
Speaker 6: little bit and go, hey, he's a comparison. I mean,
8:29
Speaker 6: fast food is something that I think we can all
8:32
Speaker 6: relate to and say, Okay, well, I'm pretty guilty of
8:35
Speaker 6: a late night mac is run, and I know that
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Speaker 6: a lot of people are. But when it comes to gambling,
8:40
Speaker 6: this can often be secret. It can be something that
8:42
Speaker 6: we don't talk about. And as somebody who might not
8:45
Speaker 6: have ever been negatively impacted by gambling, you might just
8:47
Speaker 6: go it's not as big a problem as you think
8:50
Speaker 6: it is, when in reality, it's a massive problem. And
8:53
Speaker 6: that's a lot of money, and there are a lot
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Speaker 6: of people that I would argue deserve a lot more
8:58
Speaker 6: support than they're currently being given by our government.
9:02
Speaker 2: Exactly right. And we will talk about the government's involvement
9:05
Speaker 2: in all of this a little later on in.
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Speaker 6: The show Spicy, So stick around, Spicee.
9:10
Speaker 2: My first question for you, though, is what is it
9:12
Speaker 2: about gambling that makes it so attractive? Why do people gamble?
9:15
Speaker 2: For lots of reasons? Gee, and they're not all necessarily negative.
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Speaker 6: I mean, we've started off on a pretty negative foot
9:21
Speaker 6: but we really want you guys to see the gravity
9:23
Speaker 6: of this situation. But according to Gambler's help, there are
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Speaker 6: four main reasons people gamble, and these are firstly for
9:31
Speaker 6: social reasons. I mean, everybody has seen the Melbourne Cup
9:34
Speaker 6: on TV and we all have been, at some point
9:37
Speaker 6: in our lives or another drawn a number out of
9:39
Speaker 6: a hat. The second is for financial reasons, so you
9:44
Speaker 6: might be doing it to win money and to get
9:46
Speaker 6: on top of your finances, even though it usually makes
9:48
Speaker 6: things worse. The third is for entertainment purposes, because some
9:52
Speaker 6: people really like the feeling of the high when they
9:54
Speaker 6: win and they're chasing that high. And the fourth is
9:58
Speaker 6: for coping reasons. It might be so someone forgets their
10:01
Speaker 6: worries or they feel a little bit more self confident,
10:04
Speaker 6: or because it helps when they're feeling nervous or depressed.
10:07
Speaker 6: They might be using it as a tool to lower
10:09
Speaker 6: their anxiety. So Georgia, it's become such a normalized part
10:13
Speaker 6: of Australian culture nowadays we see these ads consistently for
10:17
Speaker 6: betting companies that we're not going to name here. There's
10:20
Speaker 6: rise of apps which make it easier than ever to
10:23
Speaker 6: place a punt. And I think this shift to gambling
10:25
Speaker 6: now being so easy to do online means that a
10:28
Speaker 6: really large cohort of young people are pretty drawn to it.
10:31
Speaker 6: And because we can access at twenty four seven, there's
10:34
Speaker 6: no real limitation on it. It's no longer about just
10:37
Speaker 6: heading down to the pokeys. You don't have to be
10:39
Speaker 6: in a specific location. You could be lying in your bed,
10:42
Speaker 6: not able to sleep and you're gambling.
10:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred percent. So that is obviously super devastating
10:48
Speaker 2: thee but we know for lots of people it's not
10:50
Speaker 2: super devastating. It's a bit of fun, something to do
10:54
Speaker 2: on the weekend, put a punt on the AFL whatever.
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Speaker 2: But what people might be surprised to hear is that
11:00
Speaker 2: in Australia six point eight million of us are actually
11:03
Speaker 2: regular gamblers. You, of course, have a background in psych fee,
11:08
Speaker 2: so I want to know your thoughts on what it
11:11
Speaker 2: is about gambling that's so addictive.
11:13
Speaker 6: So let's break this down a little bit. There are
11:16
Speaker 6: a number of factors that contribute to something being addictive,
11:21
Speaker 6: and the first is a chemical reaction. There's that release
11:24
Speaker 6: of dopamine that makes us feel really good. So what
11:28
Speaker 6: happens is uncertainty is a really large part of gambling.
11:32
Speaker 6: So Dopamine, which is the neurotransmitter that is released by
11:35
Speaker 6: the brain when we're experiencing moments of pleasure like eating
11:38
Speaker 6: something really yummy or that feeling that we're flooded with
11:41
Speaker 6: after a hard run, which I can't relate to but
11:44
Speaker 6: Jul I know you can, is released in situations where
11:47
Speaker 6: the reward is not one hundred percent guaranteed, it's uncertain
11:52
Speaker 6: and studies have shown g that the brain areas which
11:54
Speaker 6: are activated by taking drugs are also lit up when
11:58
Speaker 6: we gamble, and that over years of gambling, it can
12:01
Speaker 6: actually change the way our brains are wired, which is
12:05
Speaker 6: terrifying to maw wow. Their second thing is game design,
12:09
Speaker 6: and this is something that has historically not been as
12:12
Speaker 6: prevalent and not been as big of a factor, but
12:15
Speaker 6: it's now twenty twenty one and we have access to
12:18
Speaker 6: mass amounts of research and technology, and lots of forms
12:22
Speaker 6: of gambling are also designed to be addictive, like they've
12:25
Speaker 6: done this on purpose, Like historically the pokes were like that,
12:28
Speaker 6: but now they're gammifying apps so that you stay on
12:31
Speaker 6: them for longer. And I downloaded a few gambling apps
12:34
Speaker 6: just so I could have a look at them and
12:35
Speaker 6: see what was going on. And the thing that I
12:39
Speaker 6: noticed very quickly, and the thing that I think we
12:42
Speaker 6: can all relate to if we have TikTok, is that
12:44
Speaker 6: the time isn't in the top left hand corner. It
12:48
Speaker 6: is gone. And the reason it is gone is so
12:50
Speaker 6: you don't look at how long you've been spending on
12:53
Speaker 6: that platform. And that, my friends, is my reasoning as
12:56
Speaker 6: to why I spent so long on TikTok. But it
12:58
Speaker 6: is exactly like that. You go down a rabbit hole,
13:01
Speaker 6: but you don't look at the clock and be like, oh,
13:03
Speaker 6: my gosh, it was five, and then all of a
13:04
Speaker 6: sudden it was five forty five and you're like, oh wow,
13:06
Speaker 6: that was really different. Like you're not seeing that number,
13:09
Speaker 6: you're not seeing the time. And I mean, it's not
13:11
Speaker 6: game design, but it's casino design. Casinos do something really similar.
13:15
Speaker 6: They don't have clocks, so you can't keep track of
13:18
Speaker 6: the time, and they don't have windows, so you actually
13:21
Speaker 6: don't know whether it's night or dark, or it's getting
13:23
Speaker 6: late or it's being early. And yeah, there's a lot
13:26
Speaker 6: of things to take into consideration, but Pokey's are a
13:30
Speaker 6: really good example of this. They are light and bright
13:32
Speaker 6: and they're loud. Plus we heard at the start of
13:34
Speaker 6: the episode today from one of our listeners, Gee, the
13:37
Speaker 6: gamblers receive free drinks and snacks and they're totally encouraged
13:40
Speaker 6: to keep punting and stick around. Like that to me
13:43
Speaker 6: sounds crazy. So it's not just game design, it's like
13:47
Speaker 6: people literally there to enable your addiction, which, oh, it
13:51
Speaker 6: makes me feel really icky. The other thing to mention
13:54
Speaker 6: here while I'm talking about this is we also sometimes win,
13:58
Speaker 6: and those wins can be really deceiving, and they can
14:01
Speaker 6: trick us into believing our addiction is worth it or
14:04
Speaker 6: it's under control, when really when we win, it's just
14:07
Speaker 6: causing us to throw more money away because we think
14:09
Speaker 6: it's going to happen again. We're like maybe lucky people.
14:13
Speaker 6: But unfortunately with gambling, the more you gamble, the more
14:17
Speaker 6: that you lose. But you'll often keep on gambling to
14:19
Speaker 6: try and wim back some of those losses and try
14:22
Speaker 6: and get ahead financially because you feel behind, and that
14:25
Speaker 6: can be a supervicious cycle and can absolutely lead to addiction. So, Gee,
14:30
Speaker 6: it is a really sticky area that is designed to stick.
14:34
Speaker 3: I suppose I like that.
14:36
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it's like it's designed to make you addicted, right, Well,
14:41
Speaker 2: why wouldn't they? So gambling does seem more common in men,
14:46
Speaker 2: at least that's been my experience. Isn't that actually true?
14:50
Speaker 2: And are they more vulnerable to become addicted to gambling
14:53
Speaker 2: as well?
14:54
Speaker 6: Look, statistically, yes, men gamble in greater numbers than females.
15:00
Speaker 6: And a piece of research that we found from twenty
15:02
Speaker 6: fourteen was the Victorian Prevalence Study, which was conducted by
15:06
Speaker 6: the Victorian Responsible Gambling Foundation, and they found that problem
15:10
Speaker 6: gambling was twice as prevalent in men than it was
15:14
Speaker 6: in women, which I don't think any of us are
15:17
Speaker 6: going to be surprised about. These stats are especially strong
15:21
Speaker 6: in the sports betting side of things. So the twenty
15:24
Speaker 6: fifteen Household Income and Labor Dynamics in Australia survey found
15:29
Speaker 6: that sports betters were overwhelmingly male, coming in eighty eight
15:34
Speaker 6: percent aged between eighteen and forty nine, which was seventy
15:38
Speaker 6: nine percent of them, and they also found that seventy
15:41
Speaker 6: percent of those gamblers were working full time. Generally speaking, though,
15:46
Speaker 6: men do watch more sports than women, So I'm not
15:48
Speaker 6: too surprised with those statistics, And anyone who has watched
15:52
Speaker 6: even a quarter of an AFL game knows that betting
15:55
Speaker 6: ads appear at most ad breaks, and usually the ads
15:58
Speaker 6: are also extremely clever. They're really funny. They use characters
16:01
Speaker 6: that we know and love, like Shaquille O'Neil or Mark
16:04
Speaker 6: Wahlberg or Andrew Gays like they are really tapping into
16:07
Speaker 6: what we like and what we know and their high
16:10
Speaker 6: budget ads and they make gambling seem fun and harmless
16:13
Speaker 6: and part of just being an Aussie. So side note,
16:17
Speaker 6: the three biggest sports codes in Australia are the AFL.
16:20
Speaker 6: I'm in Melbourne, so I'm pretty sure that's the only one.
16:22
Speaker 6: The NRL and Cricket Australia are all sponsored by online
16:28
Speaker 6: betting companies. If that's not Oh, it makes me feel
16:32
Speaker 6: icky that they promote such a healthy living kind of
16:34
Speaker 6: mentality and they're like get your kids out, you know,
16:37
Speaker 6: do Mini Rus go and do ozz Kick go, and
16:40
Speaker 6: you know, get your kid into cricket really early. And
16:42
Speaker 6: then they're all sponsored by online betting companies, which makes
16:45
Speaker 6: me feel a little bit icky, but it's also exposing
16:48
Speaker 6: our children to thinking that's normal really early, which I
16:51
Speaker 6: believe is really scary. So given all of that, it's
16:54
Speaker 6: not surprising that when we watch coverage on television of
16:58
Speaker 6: their matches, it's always drowning in gambling at because they
17:00
Speaker 6: were sponsored by them. And to further all of that,
17:04
Speaker 6: a comparative study of men and women gamblers that was
17:08
Speaker 6: conducted by the Victorian Responsible Gambling Foundation that you mentioned
17:11
Speaker 6: before Georgia, they found that and I quote, for most
17:16
Speaker 6: age groups, female gamblers were significantly more likely to engage
17:20
Speaker 6: in scratch ticket play, bingo, phone slash, SMS competitions or raffles,
17:25
Speaker 6: sweeps or other competitions compared to male gamblers. In contrast,
17:31
Speaker 6: male gamblers of most ages were more likely to take
17:35
Speaker 6: part in informal betting table games, horses, harness slash, greyhound
17:39
Speaker 6: racing and betting and sports or events results betting, which
17:43
Speaker 6: I found really interesting, but again not so surprising because
17:48
Speaker 6: you know, gender stereotyping exists.
17:51
Speaker 2: Just back on what you said THEREV about the three
17:53
Speaker 2: major codes all being sponsored by betting companies. As someone
17:58
Speaker 2: who loves sports, I just find.
18:01
Speaker 6: Like, literally we can't convince Georgia to work for She's
18:04
Speaker 6: on the money full time pushing works in sports nine
18:06
Speaker 6: to five, my day to Friday. Like we're not saying
18:09
Speaker 6: you're a little fan, you're a big fan.
18:10
Speaker 3: I'm a big fan. And up the Melbourne.
18:13
Speaker 2: D's who took home the Premiers.
18:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I do.
18:16
Speaker 2: I just find it so disheartening and knowing that all
18:19
Speaker 2: of those little eyeballs are watching the TV to watch
18:22
Speaker 2: their heroes up on the big stage, and then in
18:25
Speaker 2: the ad breaks they have to put up with those ads, which,
18:27
Speaker 2: to their credit, are really good ads. They're really fanny.
18:30
Speaker 2: They're written by the smartest minds in the media and
18:32
Speaker 2: advertising industry, and they're just targeting, you know, these young
18:37
Speaker 2: people into getting brainwashed that gambling is okay and a
18:41
Speaker 2: normal part of society when it really shouldn't be. And
18:45
Speaker 2: it's really the part of ossie culture, like having a punt,
18:48
Speaker 2: putting a multi on your AFL games and like, sure
18:52
Speaker 2: it can be harmless, but these numbers are terrifying.
18:55
Speaker 6: Couldn't agree more, Georgia.
18:57
Speaker 2: And if everyone's doing it, then it's like, well one,
19:00
Speaker 2: like all of my mates are doing it, what's the harm?
19:04
Speaker 2: But that's when things can get quite dangerous. I wanted
19:06
Speaker 2: to say, though, v we mustn't forget that there is
19:10
Speaker 2: the little little gamble responsibly little message at the bottom
19:13
Speaker 2: of these ads.
19:15
Speaker 6: That makes it so much better.
19:16
Speaker 2: Actually type yep, it's actually because.
19:20
Speaker 6: They put it on there. It makes me not want
19:22
Speaker 6: to do it and it absolutely means that I gamble.
19:25
Speaker 2: Responsibly choose for the warning.
19:28
Speaker 3: Just on that.
19:29
Speaker 2: Yugov did do a little survey on this, which revealed
19:32
Speaker 2: that seventy percent of people believe that gamble responsibly messaging
19:36
Speaker 2: has no impact on reducing problem gambling.
19:39
Speaker 6: Only seventy Yeah.
19:42
Speaker 2: Nineteen percent believed it had some impact, eight percent didn't know,
19:46
Speaker 2: and three percent believed it was effective.
19:48
Speaker 3: So I thought that was funny. My favorite was the
19:50
Speaker 3: eight percent.
19:51
Speaker 2: Who didn't know, which just like, okay, let's move on here.
19:57
Speaker 2: Do you have any insights into what the impact of
20:00
Speaker 2: COVID was like on the gambling industry and whether it
20:02
Speaker 2: made things better or worse for Australians.
20:04
Speaker 6: I do, and we've done some research in These answers
20:07
Speaker 6: are coming to you from our friends at the Australian
20:10
Speaker 6: Gambling Research Center. Never met them, but from their research
20:13
Speaker 6: they sound like good eggs and they found a number
20:16
Speaker 6: of key findings. So they found that Almost one in
20:19
Speaker 6: three survey participants signed up for a new online betting
20:22
Speaker 6: account during COVID nineteen, and one in twenty started gambling online.
20:28
Speaker 6: I'm assuming that's because there wasn't much else to do
20:30
Speaker 6: while we're all in lockdown, so that kind of makes sense.
20:34
Speaker 6: They also found that even with limited access to venues,
20:38
Speaker 6: overall participants gambled more often during COVID nineteen, and the
20:43
Speaker 6: proportion who gambled four times or more in a week
20:46
Speaker 6: increased from twenty three percent to thirty two percent. That's
20:51
Speaker 6: a pretty significant jump. They also found that horse racing,
20:55
Speaker 6: sports betting, greyhound racing, and lotto were the main products
20:59
Speaker 6: that party been's gambled on before and during COVID nineteen.
21:04
Speaker 6: And another concerning statistic that came out of the survey
21:07
Speaker 6: they did, George, was of all people surveyed, seventy nine
21:12
Speaker 6: percent of participants were classified at being at risk of
21:16
Speaker 6: or already experiencing gambling related harm.
21:20
Speaker 3: Geez, that's a lot of people.
21:23
Speaker 6: That's like nearly eight out of ten people that were
21:27
Speaker 6: significantly impacted because of their gambling. Whether they thought they
21:31
Speaker 6: had an addictional or not, it was harmful, which is
21:34
Speaker 6: really really scary and also during COVID. Again, I've got
21:38
Speaker 6: a lot of stats here, but I want to share
21:39
Speaker 6: them because they are all really powerful young men. So
21:43
Speaker 6: these were people aged between the age of eighteen and
21:46
Speaker 6: thirty four were the sub population most likely to sign
21:50
Speaker 6: up for new online accounts. Kind of makes sense to
21:53
Speaker 6: increase their frequency and monthly spending on gambling from six
21:57
Speaker 6: hundred and eighty seven dollars a month to onosand in
22:00
Speaker 6: seventy five dollars a month, and to be at risk
22:03
Speaker 6: of gambling related harm.
22:05
Speaker 3: That's a so decent amount of money.
22:08
Speaker 6: So young men are most at risk of spending the most,
22:12
Speaker 6: but are also at the most risk of gambling related harm,
22:16
Speaker 6: which is really sad. Like it's not again, I think
22:19
Speaker 6: that this is a stereotypical kind of response, but like,
22:23
Speaker 6: I'm not surprised it's mostly men. But that's a lot.
22:25
Speaker 6: Like that's a lot, and we really need to be
22:27
Speaker 6: having this conversation more. And the last stat I'll leave
22:31
Speaker 6: you with I found really interesting. Key experts noted that
22:35
Speaker 6: the temporary closure of pokeys Venus had immediate benefits for
22:40
Speaker 6: some people who gamble, including more money for essential items
22:43
Speaker 6: and increased savings.
22:45
Speaker 2: Interesting, So would that be because some people's form of
22:49
Speaker 2: gambling is strictly the poky Yeah.
22:51
Speaker 6: Absolutely, And they said that women were more likely to
22:55
Speaker 6: engage with poky's as their preferred form of gambling, which
22:59
Speaker 6: kind of makes sense. But at the same time, if
23:02
Speaker 6: you are into the pokys, if you can't access the venue,
23:05
Speaker 6: well you're not gambling anymore. A lot of them would
23:08
Speaker 6: just find something else to do instead of turning to online.
23:12
Speaker 6: And I'm taking a wild stab here because this data
23:15
Speaker 6: I couldn't find. That would probably be because of their demographic.
23:19
Speaker 6: They're now between the ages of eighteen and thirty four
23:21
Speaker 6: and going to the pokis every day, because I think
23:24
Speaker 6: every eighteen and thirty four year old is going to go.
23:26
Speaker 6: What's the point I can do that from my phone.
23:28
Speaker 6: It's probably that older demographic who at the end of
23:31
Speaker 6: the day actually need more money for essential items and
23:34
Speaker 6: need more savings. And that's a really good benefit of
23:37
Speaker 6: COVID nineteen on gambling, if we can call it that.
23:41
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a positive way of looking at it.
23:43
Speaker 4: VI.
23:43
Speaker 2: This is a question that I am very excited to
23:46
Speaker 2: ask you, and it's the last one I'll ask you
23:47
Speaker 2: until we head to the break.
23:49
Speaker 6: Is it because it's spicy?
23:51
Speaker 2: It is spicy? Does the spicy question? We hinted that earlier?
23:54
Speaker 2: What does the government gain from continuing to allow gambling
23:58
Speaker 2: to be promoted as blifically as it currently is.
24:02
Speaker 6: She's hitting it with the hard questions right before the break,
24:06
Speaker 6: all right, g So, in the twenty seventeen to twenty
24:10
Speaker 6: eighteen period, their New South Wales government received two point
24:16
Speaker 6: three billion dollars in tax revenue, and our very state
24:20
Speaker 6: of Victoria g made one point one billion dollars in
24:23
Speaker 6: revenue from gambling.
24:25
Speaker 3: So how does that work?
24:27
Speaker 2: Is gambling's obviously taxed and.
24:29
Speaker 6: They'sosly taxed, and they take it in that way, And
24:32
Speaker 6: I would assume that that is why they are not
24:35
Speaker 6: doing nearly as much as they could reduce gambling. It's
24:38
Speaker 6: a little bit spicy because that is a lot of revenue,
24:41
Speaker 6: and it is a lot of money to be making.
24:43
Speaker 6: But it also would make sense for them to want
24:46
Speaker 6: to protect that revenue, and anything that they do to
24:50
Speaker 6: put us in a better position would mean actually foregoing
24:53
Speaker 6: that revenue and saying that's not as important to them
24:56
Speaker 6: as our mental health, or our physical health, or our
24:58
Speaker 6: financial health. So I guess that's from me and my
25:01
Speaker 6: view on it. But I cannot see why the government
25:04
Speaker 6: they say, oh my gosh, like we absolutely will do this,
25:07
Speaker 6: that and the other. But the fact that they're making
25:09
Speaker 6: literally billions of dollars from Australians gambling is pretty good
25:13
Speaker 6: reason to not do a whole heap about it.
25:15
Speaker 3: Yeah.
25:16
Speaker 2: Well, in terms of what they could do, I guess
25:18
Speaker 2: they could put tighter parameters around advertising, right and like
25:22
Speaker 2: choose different time slots or just ban it.
25:24
Speaker 6: All together, yeah, and how much and when? And they
25:27
Speaker 6: could even do things like stop venues from providing free
25:32
Speaker 6: food and drink or even stop venues from selling it
25:35
Speaker 6: so people have to leave the venue to go and
25:38
Speaker 6: get lunch or get dinner, because I guarantee those things
25:42
Speaker 6: are keeping people in venues for longer. So I think
25:45
Speaker 6: there's a lot that people could do. They could even
25:47
Speaker 6: put caps on how long you're allowed to be there for.
25:50
Speaker 6: I mean, nowadays COVID normal, I can go to the
25:53
Speaker 6: restaurant for two hours? Is that the same for Pokey's
25:57
Speaker 6: Or we're going to start implementing things like that, And
26:00
Speaker 6: could they stick in saying that I don't know what
26:03
Speaker 6: the rules are for going back to the Pokeys in
26:05
Speaker 6: COVID normal. But at the same time it would be
26:08
Speaker 6: really smart of them to consider stuff like that. But
26:11
Speaker 6: would it be in their best interest as a government.
26:13
Speaker 6: Probably not.
26:14
Speaker 2: Yeah, so they remember I'm not sure about the years,
26:19
Speaker 2: the exact years, but remember like tobacco ads used to
26:22
Speaker 2: be on TV all the time. Now they're obviously not advertised.
26:26
Speaker 2: Do you think there is a time in the near
26:28
Speaker 2: future or the distant future where gambling will not be
26:33
Speaker 2: advertised at all anymore? And in fact, they will put
26:36
Speaker 2: warnings up against the poking machine, saying there is a
26:38
Speaker 2: high risk of addiction here, you could lose all of
26:41
Speaker 2: your money, etc. Etc.
26:42
Speaker 6: Do so at your own risk. I would love to
26:44
Speaker 6: think that that was true, but I still don't believe
26:47
Speaker 6: that people take our mental health as serious as our
26:49
Speaker 6: physical health. And we don't have a picture of somebody
26:52
Speaker 6: who has, you know, a tough, fielled lung that we
26:55
Speaker 6: can spam everywhere and be like, this is what happens
26:58
Speaker 6: when you gamble, because in reality, the outcome of gambling
27:02
Speaker 6: is so significant and it infiltrates not just the person
27:06
Speaker 6: but the entire family. It ruins family units, it ruins relationships,
27:10
Speaker 6: with kids. It puts you in significant debt. But as
27:13
Speaker 6: I've said on this podcast before, debt is invisible, and
27:17
Speaker 6: that makes it so easy to just ignore, whether that
27:20
Speaker 6: is you getting into it or the government going ook.
27:23
Speaker 6: It's a problem, but maybe that's a problem that they
27:25
Speaker 6: deal with because we're making our billions of dollars of
27:28
Speaker 6: money in revenue. So do we really want to change.
27:32
Speaker 2: If anyone does work in government policy and you are
27:35
Speaker 2: making strides towards a brighter future.
27:39
Speaker 6: Another elogizing for our comments.
27:43
Speaker 2: Guys, let's leave it there for now, but we will
27:45
Speaker 2: be back after the break to explain how you can
27:48
Speaker 2: spot the difference between a gambling problem and a casual punt.
27:51
Speaker 2: And we're also going to tell you exactly what you
27:54
Speaker 2: can do if you think you are struggling with gambling
27:57
Speaker 2: addiction or if someone you love is. Don't go anywhere,
28:04
Speaker 2: all right, the straight back into it. Who among us
28:08
Speaker 2: is the most at risk of gambling addictions.
28:10
Speaker 6: I'm glad we're talking about this because we know that
28:12
Speaker 6: for a majority of people, gambling isn't actually an issue,
28:16
Speaker 6: but through significant portion of us, it is a massive,
28:19
Speaker 6: potentially devastating issue. So let's unpack exactly who might be
28:23
Speaker 6: more vulnerable. Unsurprisingly, given our comments earlier in the show,
28:27
Speaker 6: men are more often problem gamblers compared to women, but
28:32
Speaker 6: also personality traits, people who have issues with impulsiveness and
28:35
Speaker 6: people who have low self control are definitely at risk.
28:39
Speaker 6: And Georgia, we recorded an episode a couple of weeks
28:42
Speaker 6: ago about neurodiversity and people experiencing neurodiversity and what that meant.
28:49
Speaker 6: These people are at significantly more risk than I would
28:53
Speaker 6: say people not experiencing neurodiversity issues. Also, people with mental
28:58
Speaker 6: health disorders are risk as well. So according to the
29:02
Speaker 6: Mayo Clinic, compulsive gamblers often have issues with substance abuse,
29:07
Speaker 6: or they may live with depression, bipolar or anxiety, and
29:11
Speaker 6: people who have ADHD are also at risk g which,
29:15
Speaker 6: as I was saying before, is a neurodiversity issue. I
29:18
Speaker 6: get a bit frustrated, if I'm being honest, and let
29:20
Speaker 6: me go on a tangent here when people say that
29:23
Speaker 6: neurodiversity is a mental health disorder, because I don't believe
29:27
Speaker 6: those true things to be synonymous. But given our episode
29:30
Speaker 6: on ADHD and neurodiversity, I think the key issue here
29:33
Speaker 6: is around impulsiveness. So if you're somebody who's a bit compulsive,
29:37
Speaker 6: whether that comes to the share market or substance abuse,
29:40
Speaker 6: or you're just neurodiverse, you are at significantly more risk
29:45
Speaker 6: than the average bear. G.
29:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, that definitely makes sense. My next question is how
29:52
Speaker 2: do you actually go about sporting an issue and what
29:55
Speaker 2: is the difference between having a casual punt with your
29:57
Speaker 2: mates on the weekend and having a proper addiction.
30:01
Speaker 6: So the first thing is having a deep understanding of
30:03
Speaker 6: what's actually going on, and it's really hard. G. As
30:07
Speaker 6: we heard before, people hide it, they lie, they forge checks,
30:11
Speaker 6: they hide the debt, they borrow money like they aren't
30:13
Speaker 6: willing to answer this question. So getting a full understanding
30:17
Speaker 6: of the picture and being honest about it is really
30:20
Speaker 6: really important. So whether that's you going through it or
30:22
Speaker 6: you coaching somebody to be like, hey, ge, I know
30:25
Speaker 6: that there might be an issue here. I'm not here
30:27
Speaker 6: to judge you. I'm here to help you what's actually
30:29
Speaker 6: going on and sitting them down. But there are some
30:31
Speaker 6: signs that you're gambling could be getting out of hand,
30:35
Speaker 6: So gamblers help say that. Common signs include being kept
30:38
Speaker 6: awake at night, thinking about gambling, feeling like you're out
30:42
Speaker 6: of control, building up debts that you just can't pay off,
30:45
Speaker 6: and betting more than you can afford. They also said
30:49
Speaker 6: that feeling like you can't talk to anyone about your
30:51
Speaker 6: gambling and hiding evidence of your gambling activity are all
30:55
Speaker 6: little kinks that you're gambling could be on the pathway
30:59
Speaker 6: to being out of con If you're someone who puts
31:02
Speaker 6: the occasional bet down on a sporting match, or guests
31:04
Speaker 6: super exciting during the Spring Racing Carnival which is coming up,
31:07
Speaker 6: or who throws a few dollars in the pokeys when
31:09
Speaker 6: you're out at an RSL with your parents having a
31:11
Speaker 6: good steak dinners classic rye RSL. I think that's absolutely fine.
31:17
Speaker 6: So long as there are parameters. You might say, Yep,
31:20
Speaker 6: I'm going out tonight. My limits fifty bucks and I'm
31:23
Speaker 6: going to spend no more than that. To me, that's
31:25
Speaker 6: a fine form of entertainment. It is not my job
31:28
Speaker 6: to judge you on what you like to get up
31:29
Speaker 6: to when you're out, But as I've just said before,
31:33
Speaker 6: g can be a really slippery slope. And if you're
31:35
Speaker 6: someone that has a really addictive personality like me, or
31:39
Speaker 6: who does display impulsive behaviors. Also, like me, it can
31:44
Speaker 6: be riskier for you, so you do just need to
31:46
Speaker 6: be really careful.
31:48
Speaker 2: So if someone was to say gambling aligns with my values,
31:53
Speaker 2: I want to put fifty dollars down or like you know,
31:57
Speaker 2: fifty dollars from my budget each week, I want to
31:59
Speaker 2: allocate to get what are your thoughts on that I.
32:01
Speaker 6: Can do that. I absolutely agree with budgeting for things
32:04
Speaker 6: that are in line with your values. If that's what
32:06
Speaker 6: you want to get up to and that sparks your joy,
32:09
Speaker 6: go for it. I spend money on gel now, polish
32:11
Speaker 6: and eyelash extensions. Who am I to judge anybody on
32:15
Speaker 6: their spending because arguably I'm never going to win anything
32:18
Speaker 6: from my eyelash extensions except a few compliments. So at
32:21
Speaker 6: the end of the day, I think it's really important
32:24
Speaker 6: to just make sure that whatever you are putting in
32:26
Speaker 6: your budget is actually reasonable. So just because it's in
32:29
Speaker 6: your budget does not mean it's justifiable. It can only
32:32
Speaker 6: be free cash flow that you can reasonably afford. And
32:35
Speaker 6: if you have three kids at home and you're really
32:38
Speaker 6: strapped for cash, maybe I'd really be rethinking whether that
32:42
Speaker 6: needs to be in your budget or not or that's
32:44
Speaker 6: actually creating more financial constraint at home. But if you
32:48
Speaker 6: had a heap of free cash flow and you're like, oh, va,
32:51
Speaker 6: I'm investing thousands months and I'm doing this and I'm
32:53
Speaker 6: saving and you know, I just on Friday nights go
32:56
Speaker 6: out for a drink with my friends and we bet
32:58
Speaker 6: about fifty bucks, I'd be like, oh, okay, Like that
33:01
Speaker 6: is not a problem. Context is what is important there,
33:05
Speaker 6: because if you're saying, hey, they is fifty bucks a
33:07
Speaker 6: week and okay, nowt well, I can't comment on that
33:10
Speaker 6: purely because I don't know the situation. As I said before,
33:13
Speaker 6: if you had three kids at home and you're actually
33:15
Speaker 6: finding it really hard to pay the bills and put
33:17
Speaker 6: food on the table, that's actually unacceptable. We can't be
33:21
Speaker 6: doing those things if you're in that situation. But if
33:24
Speaker 6: you're financially free and have a whole heap of free
33:26
Speaker 6: cash flow, I'd be like, Okay, go for it, enjoy that,
33:30
Speaker 6: do whatever you want. I mean, as a financial advisor,
33:33
Speaker 6: i'd be saying, are you sure you want to do that?
33:34
Speaker 6: Or do you want to invest it?
33:35
Speaker 3: It's a better option. Rah.
33:37
Speaker 6: But at the end of the day, your values are
33:39
Speaker 6: your values. Just make sure that the context makes sense,
33:42
Speaker 6: not oh, they said that fifty bucks is fine, because
33:44
Speaker 6: absolutely that is not the case. All right, V let's
33:47
Speaker 6: move on to some of the solutions that we've collected today.
33:51
Speaker 6: What should we do if we're starting to feel as
33:53
Speaker 6: though gambling is starting to have a negative impact on us?
33:56
Speaker 6: All right, So there are a few things that you
33:58
Speaker 6: can do. First thing I think is lean on distractions.
34:02
Speaker 6: So if you're feeling yourself craving wanting to put a
34:05
Speaker 6: bet down, or you're really craving a trip down to
34:07
Speaker 6: the RSL, go and catch up with a friend. Instead,
34:10
Speaker 6: find an activity that you can do that replaces it.
34:14
Speaker 6: I would argue that instead of going, oh, just go
34:16
Speaker 6: for a walk, find an activity that releases dopamine. So
34:20
Speaker 6: you're getting that hit still because innately and chemically that's
34:25
Speaker 6: what you're chasing. So if you're going, I really want
34:28
Speaker 6: to put a bet down on XYZ this week, maybe
34:31
Speaker 6: find a way to get that dopamine hit. If you
34:34
Speaker 6: get a dopamine hit from catching up with friends, go
34:36
Speaker 6: and do that. If you get a dopamine hit from
34:39
Speaker 6: going on a long run like Georgia does, give that
34:41
Speaker 6: a crack. But find something that releases the same chemical
34:45
Speaker 6: so that you're not missing out on it completely, because
34:48
Speaker 6: often when we try and just substitute it out, like
34:51
Speaker 6: turning on the TV, it's just pushing off us making
34:54
Speaker 6: that decision because we're chasing a chemical high. And I
34:57
Speaker 6: know that that's probably not what you expected me to
34:59
Speaker 6: say say, but I think it's really important to not
35:02
Speaker 6: just swap it out for an activity that distracts you,
35:05
Speaker 6: but distract yourself with something that could be a consistent
35:08
Speaker 6: distraction that you start leaning on more regularly instead, so
35:12
Speaker 6: that hopefully we can swap that behavior out instead of
35:15
Speaker 6: just going, oh, I really want to gamble, you might
35:18
Speaker 6: go just really feel like going for a run this morning.
35:20
Speaker 6: So I think it's really important to think about creating
35:23
Speaker 6: new habits and what habits you can replace that behavior with.
35:27
Speaker 6: Another resource is gamblers help, and they suggest resisting urges
35:31
Speaker 6: by thinking of them in waves. I like this because
35:34
Speaker 6: waves come and go and the idea is to just
35:37
Speaker 6: ride them out. So if you're really feeling like you
35:40
Speaker 6: want to do that, just know you're at the pink
35:42
Speaker 6: of the wave and it is going to go down
35:44
Speaker 6: at some point, and that mindset can really help you
35:48
Speaker 6: also if you fall off the wagon, so to speak,
35:51
Speaker 6: or the wave. If we're going to try and stay
35:53
Speaker 6: on topic, George, don't be hard on yourself. Instead reflect
35:57
Speaker 6: on where you fell down and what you're going to
35:59
Speaker 6: do differently next time. And I think that advice can
36:02
Speaker 6: go across literally every part of your life, whether that
36:05
Speaker 6: is finance, or your career or gambling, like doesn't matter
36:09
Speaker 6: if you fall down. The important thing about falling down
36:12
Speaker 6: is whether you're going to get up or not. The
36:14
Speaker 6: people that are defeated are the ones that stay down
36:16
Speaker 6: and keep the habit going. The ones that get up,
36:18
Speaker 6: they're the ones with grit, and that's us. That's the
36:21
Speaker 6: she'ese on the money community. We're really gritty and we
36:23
Speaker 6: get up when we fall down, and we make a
36:25
Speaker 6: plan for what we do differently because we don't see
36:28
Speaker 6: things as a failure. We see them as a learning
36:30
Speaker 6: and we go, you know what, that didn't work, Let's
36:33
Speaker 6: give it a crack again. We're not upset with ourselves.
36:35
Speaker 6: We just know we need a different strategy. And if
36:39
Speaker 6: you're in debt, please don't just continue to gamble in
36:42
Speaker 6: the hopes that you're going to win back your losses.
36:44
Speaker 6: I'm going to tell you hard and fast right now,
36:46
Speaker 6: you never will at the end of the day. With
36:49
Speaker 6: the statistics about what you can win and how it works,
36:52
Speaker 6: it's not going to happen. You're just chasing more losses
36:56
Speaker 6: and putting yourself in more debt. You need to talk
36:58
Speaker 6: to Gamblers Help. You can talk to them, they are
37:01
Speaker 6: beautiful humans that are going to help you through that.
37:04
Speaker 6: Or you can talk to our friends at the National
37:06
Speaker 6: Debt Help Line and they will put you in touch
37:09
Speaker 6: with a free financial counselor to help you create a
37:12
Speaker 6: plan to change your situation. So I think it's one
37:16
Speaker 6: of those things. As I said before, it is not
37:18
Speaker 6: a reflection of whether you're a good person or a
37:21
Speaker 6: bad person. What we want to take away from this
37:24
Speaker 6: is we are gritty. We get back up when we
37:26
Speaker 6: are pushed down, and if we are experiencing something that
37:29
Speaker 6: is making life really hard for us, we have people
37:32
Speaker 6: around us. We've got the Shees on the Money community.
37:35
Speaker 6: You guys are always more than welcome to message us
37:37
Speaker 6: and we will put you in contact with who you
37:39
Speaker 6: need to chat to. There's Gamblers Help which is in
37:42
Speaker 6: the show notes, and our friends at the National Debt helpline,
37:45
Speaker 6: who will also be in the show notes, so you
37:47
Speaker 6: are never alone on these journeys. And you know what,
37:50
Speaker 6: none of the people that I've just mentioned will ever
37:52
Speaker 6: judge you for the decisions that you've made.
37:55
Speaker 3: Absolutely not.
37:56
Speaker 2: I think as well as be like, open up to
37:58
Speaker 2: your loved ones and be honest with them, because I
38:01
Speaker 2: imagine carrying around those levels of self loathing potentially, and
38:07
Speaker 2: levels of guilt if you're in debt, Like, if we
38:11
Speaker 2: can talk to our loved ones about that and just
38:13
Speaker 2: get that off our chest, and you know, that could
38:15
Speaker 2: almost be the first step into you know, walking this
38:18
Speaker 2: new path and finding solutions instead of just bottling it
38:23
Speaker 2: all up and trying to face it on your own.
38:25
Speaker 2: I think speaking about it and being really honest, open
38:27
Speaker 2: and vulnerable will be super helpful.
38:29
Speaker 6: Yeah, And it's a very hard situation to be in
38:32
Speaker 6: when it is a loved one, because when you're seeing
38:35
Speaker 6: somebody else go through it, you've essentially got to wait
38:37
Speaker 6: until they're in a position where they're willing to open
38:40
Speaker 6: up and accept help. And accepting help for a lot
38:42
Speaker 6: of people is really hard. If you're that person that's
38:45
Speaker 6: really bad at accepting help, please stop, like, please, just
38:50
Speaker 6: accept the help. It is there for you to use,
38:52
Speaker 6: and people love you and want to be involved in
38:55
Speaker 6: your life and actually want the best for you. And
38:57
Speaker 6: I promise the sooner you accept help, the sooner you're
38:59
Speaker 6: going to be out of this sticky situation, and the
39:01
Speaker 6: sooner we see the light and we're able to live
39:03
Speaker 6: the life we deserve to live. So it's also really
39:06
Speaker 6: important to note that when we're broaching things like this,
39:09
Speaker 6: like George, if I thought you had a bit of
39:11
Speaker 6: an issue, would be a really tricky thing to bring up.
39:14
Speaker 6: It would be something that was really hard to talk about,
39:17
Speaker 6: and you know what, the first thing you might do
39:19
Speaker 6: is completely deny it, And that's okay. I think we
39:22
Speaker 6: just have to be really non judgmental and soft and
39:25
Speaker 6: maybe broach that topic and number of times. The key
39:28
Speaker 6: is to talk to them without blame and just go
39:30
Speaker 6: really gently. Gamblers help suggest that the chat happens in
39:34
Speaker 6: a private and safe space as well, where they're not
39:37
Speaker 6: going to feel too vulnerable, and they have a number
39:40
Speaker 6: of other suggestions that were really helpful as well, so
39:42
Speaker 6: I'll quickly run through them. They said, focus on the
39:45
Speaker 6: positives and fixes rather than the problems themselves. So just
39:49
Speaker 6: like debt, we don't care where you've come from, we
39:51
Speaker 6: care where you are going. Doesn't matter what's happened, what
39:54
Speaker 6: are we doing in the future. Let's just draw a
39:57
Speaker 6: line in the sand and let's make a positive plan
39:59
Speaker 6: for what we're going to get up to. Like, how
40:01
Speaker 6: are we going to get out of this debt? George,
40:02
Speaker 6: how good will we feel when that happens. They also say,
40:06
Speaker 6: get them to talk about what might be good about
40:09
Speaker 6: gambling less. So get them to come up with the positives.
40:12
Speaker 6: Because if you're like, hey, George, so if you gamble
40:15
Speaker 6: less you'll feel better, You'm like, okay. Get them to
40:18
Speaker 6: come up with things that are really relevant to their
40:21
Speaker 6: personal situations. Let them know that you're only asking and
40:25
Speaker 6: talking about this because you care about them. I think
40:28
Speaker 6: that's really important. And using words that they use, So
40:33
Speaker 6: not going and using the word gambling if that's the case.
40:36
Speaker 6: If they don't use that word, maybe they use pokey's,
40:39
Speaker 6: maybe they use different words to describe what they do.
40:42
Speaker 6: Use that language so that it's relatable and it doesn't
40:45
Speaker 6: feel too far from home. The next thing they suggest
40:49
Speaker 6: is be vulnerable yourself, which I think is actually one
40:52
Speaker 6: of the keys to getting someone to open up. So
40:54
Speaker 6: if I wanted to have a really deeper, meaningful conversation
40:56
Speaker 6: with you, George, I'm not going to start by asking
40:58
Speaker 6: you the deeper meaningful question. I'm going to ask by
41:01
Speaker 6: showing you that I am being vulnerable, maybe share and
41:04
Speaker 6: experience myself that I struggled with so that then hopefully
41:07
Speaker 6: you reciprocate and we can talk about that thing that
41:10
Speaker 6: I'm trying to get at. They also said that asking
41:13
Speaker 6: the question how bad do things have to get before
41:16
Speaker 6: we fix this is a good question. And the last
41:19
Speaker 6: thing they recommend is being patient. This process could take weeks,
41:24
Speaker 6: all months, or even could take years, but patience is
41:27
Speaker 6: the key, and I thought that those points were really helpful.
41:31
Speaker 6: They also gave us George three points to avoid. So
41:34
Speaker 6: they said, the first thing to avoid is calling them
41:36
Speaker 6: the problem. That is going to get everybody off side.
41:39
Speaker 6: Let's be honest. The second you call someone a problem,
41:42
Speaker 6: they don't want to bar of you. The next is
41:44
Speaker 6: avoid blame. So we're not talking about blame. We are
41:47
Speaker 6: just talking about solutions. And the third thing that they
41:50
Speaker 6: said to avoid was avoid lecturing them or telling them
41:53
Speaker 6: what to do. Figure out your solutions. Together and focus
41:57
Speaker 6: on that.
41:58
Speaker 2: And if that does seem too daunting, guys, we will
42:01
Speaker 2: link to Gambler's Help in the show notes of course,
42:04
Speaker 2: so you can always point them in that direction as well.
42:06
Speaker 2: They're the pros.
42:07
Speaker 3: They will yeah, be massive helps.
42:09
Speaker 6: Agreed, And I think something to also note about Gambler's
42:13
Speaker 6: Help is you can call them if you're not the Gambler,
42:15
Speaker 6: so it doesn't have to be you. You could be
42:18
Speaker 6: someone who has a brother, a sister, a mother, a father,
42:20
Speaker 6: a friend, a family member, anyone going through that situation,
42:25
Speaker 6: and they are going to help equit you with the
42:27
Speaker 6: tools and resources that you need to help them, because
42:31
Speaker 6: not everyone who is going through a situation like this
42:34
Speaker 6: is going to pick up the phone themselves. And also
42:36
Speaker 6: just quick disclaimer, we're talking about Gambler's Help a lot
42:39
Speaker 6: in this episode. Very positively. They are in no way,
42:41
Speaker 6: shape or form sponsoring us. They don't even know we're
42:44
Speaker 6: doing this episode. We just think that they are good
42:46
Speaker 6: Eggs doing good egg things.
42:48
Speaker 2: Yeah, and their website is incredible. It's packed full of resources,
42:52
Speaker 2: many of which we've used throughout this episode. So check
42:54
Speaker 2: it out if you are if you want to learn more,
42:56
Speaker 2: if you are concerned about someone in your life or yourself.
42:59
Speaker 3: We are, are, of course, about.
43:01
Speaker 2: To enter into the season of spring racing, so I
43:04
Speaker 2: feel like this episode has actually landed at a really
43:06
Speaker 2: good time, which was probably deliberate planning by young Jessica Vici.
43:10
Speaker 6: She's a smart she's a genius.
43:12
Speaker 3: She's a genius.
43:13
Speaker 2: But I think it's appropriate for us to cap off
43:16
Speaker 2: today's show with an overview of what the odds actually
43:18
Speaker 2: are like when it comes to gambling in Victoria. Again,
43:22
Speaker 2: this is according to Gambler's Help, Big shout Out, and I.
43:24
Speaker 6: Feel like it's a good place to leave this. This
43:26
Speaker 6: has been a really heavy episode and these are a
43:29
Speaker 6: few facts that are a little bit bizarre but also
43:33
Speaker 6: maybe why we all need to reconsider what we are gambling,
43:36
Speaker 6: because these numbers are wild g exactly.
43:40
Speaker 2: So I'm going to start us off with the poke machines,
43:42
Speaker 2: so to get five black Rhinos on the Black Rhinos machine,
43:46
Speaker 2: which apparently is.
43:47
Speaker 6: The I didn't even know that there was a Black
43:49
Speaker 6: Rhinos machine.
43:50
Speaker 3: The more you know, apparently that's a big one. Exactly.
43:53
Speaker 2: The odds of winning are one in nine million, seven
43:56
Speaker 2: hundred and sixty five, six hundred and twenty five.
43:59
Speaker 6: Oh wow, that's a lot pretty poor, all right, I
44:03
Speaker 6: can see below you've got a note It says ask
44:06
Speaker 6: G about Powerball, G, this is me asking you about Powerball?
44:11
Speaker 6: What are our rods if we put our money on that?
44:14
Speaker 2: The odds are one in seventy six million, seven hundred
44:17
Speaker 2: and sixty seven thousand and six hundred.
44:20
Speaker 6: Oh my gosh. And it also says ask G about scratchies. G.
44:25
Speaker 2: Mate, you're ruining it by reading sorry this way? Sorry,
44:28
Speaker 2: so making me seem late.
44:29
Speaker 6: All right, you can't. But also I am as well.
44:33
Speaker 6: How often can we win on scratchies?
44:36
Speaker 2: One in six hundred dozand times? So you would have
44:38
Speaker 2: to buy a lot of scratches.
44:40
Speaker 6: Fee to guarantee aware goods. Yeah, that's a lot of scratcheese,
44:44
Speaker 6: and oculably, that's more than a house deposit. So I'm
44:47
Speaker 6: just going to keep saving. If I'm being honest, you've
44:49
Speaker 6: turned me completely off.
44:51
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, we do.
44:52
Speaker 2: Hope you guys have enjoyed this show. It was really
44:54
Speaker 2: stat heavy fee. I'm thinking maybe I'll put together a
44:57
Speaker 2: little blog post so that these numbers are written down
45:00
Speaker 2: instead of just flying around on the podcast. So I'll
45:04
Speaker 2: build that this week and then we'll publish it and
45:07
Speaker 2: send it out to you guys. All right, Phie, that
45:09
Speaker 2: is all we have time for. We will of course
45:11
Speaker 2: be linking to Gambler's help in the show notes as
45:13
Speaker 2: I've said a thousand times, so if gambling is a
45:16
Speaker 2: problem for you or someone you love, please do get
45:19
Speaker 2: in touch with their team as they do have so
45:21
Speaker 2: many amazing resources for you to use.
45:23
Speaker 6: As we said, good eggs doing good things. So as always,
45:26
Speaker 6: just before we head off, we'd like to acknowledge and
45:29
Speaker 6: pay respect to Australia's Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people's.
45:33
Speaker 6: They're the traditional custodians of the lands, the waterways and
45:37
Speaker 6: the skies all across Australia. We thank you for sharing
45:40
Speaker 6: and for caring for the land on which we are
45:43
Speaker 6: able to learn. We pay our respects to elders past
45:46
Speaker 6: and present, and we share our friendship and our kindness.
45:49
Speaker 2: The advice shared on She's on the Money is general
45:52
Speaker 2: in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances.
45:55
Speaker 3: She's on the Money.
45:56
Speaker 2: Exists purely for educational purposes and should not be really
46:00
Speaker 2: add upon to make an investment or a financial decision,
46:03
Speaker 2: and we promise. Victoria Divine is an authorized representative of
46:07
Speaker 2: Australia Pacific Funds Management Proprietary Limited ABN three four one
46:11
Speaker 2: three two four six three two five seven AFSL three
46:14
Speaker 2: thirty nine one five one.
46:15
Speaker 6: See you next week, guys.
46:17
Speaker 3: Bye guys,