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E36:Your Clients Should Be Your Marketing Department: How HawkSoft Grew on Word of Mouth · Elevate The Hustle

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: My house burned down, but I'm gonna go talk to an AI bot now.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I'm sorry to hear that.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_03: I mean that's just not gonna work.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_03: Elevate the hustle.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Elevate the Hustle, where we break down what it actually means to build teams, scale companies, and lead with intensity.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Dan Mayton.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Dom Picharillo, and today we're here with Darren from Hawksoft, who started with Hawksoft in 2004 as employee number eight.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_02: And we're excited to hear about his journey.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome, Darren.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you so much.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_04: Really appreciate you guys having me here today.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: Very exciting.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well, welcome to Elevate the Hustle.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'll I'll I'll I always lead off asking the same question.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll do it again today.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: What does the word hustle mean to you, Darren?
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_04: Um hustle to me really just means like what is the what is the buzz of the day in technology?
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_04: Um and pretty much for this year and for as long as I could probably see going forward, that is that is AI.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_04: Uh what is you know it, what is AI doing for us?
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_04: What is it doing to us?
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, what might it do to us?
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_04: Um and for me, it's all just about trying to understand how that merges with InsureTech and um and what what it does inside of an agency.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_04: So that's that's really kind of my hustle right now.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_04: And um that's that's my what I'm after every day and kind of what's on the back of my mind.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: So let's talk about it.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: Employee number eight.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, obviously most of the people that watch or listen to the show know what Hawksoft is, but tell us a little bit about for those that might not know, what is Hawksoft and what is your role there?
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: And employee number eight, tell us about your journey.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_04: So sure.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_04: So Hawksoft is uh is an agency management system.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_04: Um it was literally started out of a bedroom in 1993 um by Paul Hawkins and his son Sean, um, shortly thereafter, joined by his son-in-law Jason Hansen.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and the three of them ran the company out of a bedroom for a couple of years.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_04: Um Paul would go out to agencies in the Portland, Oregon area um and market and sell.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_04: Um, once we had some customers in the Portland area, uh, he would actually go out um and deliver updates to the software with a box of floppy disks.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_04: And he would go from office to office with a box of floppy disks and then go and install the updates for them.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, pretty cool.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_04: Um at that time, I was actually uh an insurance agent in Eugene, Oregon.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I was working for um a shop that had multiple locations throughout the Willamette Valley.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_04: And um we happened to use Hawksoft.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_04: Uh the agency that I worked at was one of the first 20 customers of Hawksoft.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_04: And uh that was kind of that was where I learned the name, or I learned how to use the software.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and um, you know, kind of there in the trenches, um, writing a lot of non-standard auto uh in the Eugene area.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_04: And uh I leaned on the software so hard every day, I knew that there was no way that I could do my my job without it.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and um it it just kind of became that core of of my daily activities at the agency.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_04: And um, after about three and a half years there, three years or so, um the person who hired me at the agency uh left to go work for Hawksoft.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_04: And he was actually employee number four.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_04: Uh he was the first non-family member that they hired.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_04: Um, that was Jamie Phillips.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_04: And uh Jamie was was with the company for uh a long time.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_04: Hawksoft would not be uh where it is today without Jamie.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_04: Um and we thank him very much for his time.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_04: Um he reached out to me about six months after leaving the agency and said, Hey, we're looking to to to build build some staff here at Hawksoft.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_04: We're interested to see if you would like to come, you know, check us out and see if we want to want to do this.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_04: So for me, it was very exciting from uh from a just a career standpoint to be able to kind of make that leap from from an insurance agency into a technology company.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but it did involve me relocating my family from Eugene, um, about 100 miles north up to the Portland area.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_04: Uh so that was not a decision that was taken lightly.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_04: Um they did a good job though of of kind of swooning me and and getting me to come.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: What what did what did they say?
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: Well close the sales pitch.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_04: My job, so that so my job interview, if you want to call it that, was literally bring the family up to uh Picanby.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_04: So it was me and my wife and my three boys.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_04: Um, we went up to Tacanby from Eugene, an hour and a half drive for about a backyard barbecue at the Hawkins house.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_04: And that was essentially my interview.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_04: Um, interviewing the entire family and just trying kind of feel feeling it out.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, after dinner was over, um, at that time, Paul was like, let's let's head down to the office and and go talk.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so the office, I pulled into this little tiny parking lot, has like four spots, and it was it was like an 1100 square foot house with two bedrooms, a living room, and a kitchen.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_04: And there was a kind of a little dining room nook.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and I was like, Oh, this is the office.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_04: All righty.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_04: So we went in, we talked for a bit, um, and uh, and then Paul took me over to show me where my desk would be.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, he he literally opened an accordion door on a coat closet and he said, So this is uh I'm gonna I'm gonna build a shelf in here and this will be your desk.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_04: Um so yeah, it was a little eye-opening, a little eyebrows raised there.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_04: Um, my wife was not sure that she was ready to take take a leap on this.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but I knew in the back of my mind, I just had this feeling that there was something special.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_04: Um, the fact that they brought us up for dinner, um, the fact that that it was just family.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_04: And and all they talked about was family.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_04: One of the very first things that Paul ever said to me was, if you come to work at Hawks off, the first thing you need to know, and remember this always, is your family comes first, always.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_04: And that really, you know, kind of made me step back a little bit.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_04: It's like, wait a minute, that you don't hear that from employers every day.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, so I knew there was something special there, and um, it took a little bit of coercion and and and manipulation.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know, manipulation, that's not a good word at all, but coercion and negotiation uh with my wife to uh to go ahead and and make the move because we had we had a middle schooler and we had two two babies under two.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_04: Um so uh a relocation, uh moving, you know, moving 100 miles north, it was it was a lot.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_04: It was a lot of work and um it was a lot of stress uh looking back on it now.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, but it was absolutely the right decision.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_04: As we can see, here I sit 22 years later, um, and uh, you know, key part of the company, and the company has continued to stay true to those roots.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_04: And um, you know, family is still first at Hawksoft, and that uh that really just is is amazing.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_04: You just don't see it.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: It really is amazing, and kudos to you being the visionary to see it.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um are you I mean, the fact that you use the software and were a believer in it, um I'm I'm sure that had a big part in saying yes.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: So you you experienced that this works and and it is the future of the insurance industry.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_04: Absolutely, yeah.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_04: And I, you know, I also, you know, I I asked them specifically about their growth and you know, you know, where where they'd come as far as customer count in the last year to two years, and I could kind of see the trend.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and then you know, once we made the decision and I started in the role, um it became clear that it was an upward trajectory, but it was gonna be a slow and manageable growth, and that's really one of the keys to to the growth at HockeSoft is that it's been slow and manageable.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_04: There's never been a hockey stick graph for our growth.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_04: Um, it's just been a slow, steady climb.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, and a lot of that um, you know, I learned early on that Hoxoft didn't have a marketing budget.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_04: Um I mean, we didn't have a marketing department until 2012.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_04: So my first eight years there, I watched the steady growth and it was 100% organic, um word of mouth.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, probably the strongest, the strongest uh advertisers that we had out there were actually marketing reps for companies, for the carriers.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_04: Um, because they're there, they were out there visiting agencies every day, and they would hear the the good and the bad about the various AMS platforms.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_04: And they always heard great things about Hawksoft, and they would not hesitate to answer Hawksoft if they were asked, hey, I need a new AMS or I need an AMS for the first time, who should I go look at?
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_04: Uh so those marketing reps were key uh in our growth over the years until we, you know, finally decided to go ahead and start marketing ourselves.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_04: Um and uh yeah, it's uh it's been quite a journey, definitely.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: What were you hired to do there originally?
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_02: And like what was that's a great question?
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: I guess a couple of questions like what were you hired to do originally?
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_02: What were you doing at the insurance agency?
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_02: I know you said you were writing non-standard auto, but were you in like sales or on the account management team or whatever?
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: And did like any of those skills transfer?
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_02: Or did you need to learn like an entirely new set of skills essentially and start from scratch?
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_04: Excellent question.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so at the agency, I was an agent, but I was also a customer service rep.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_04: So the agency was we we were we each agent did their own.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_04: So, you know, we just answered the phone.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_04: If it was a vehicle change, we would go do a vehicle change.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_04: You know, we would just do the customer service, whatever it would be.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_04: If it happened to be uh I need a quote, then if we were lucky enough to pick up the phone, then that was gonna be our sale.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_04: Um uh and then we also had walk-ins because again, it was non-standard auto, so we would often just get walk-ins, people come in.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_04: Hey, I need to get, I need a policy.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_04: So whoever could grab those first.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_04: You got it.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_04: I got to get my car out of impound.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_04: I need to get some insurance.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_04: Uh so you know, it was it was almost a call center feel um every day.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_04: Uh the phone would ring, and it was a loud, a loud kind of horn sound that would throughout the entire office.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, so it was a lot of phone work, um, and then just picking up, you know, people coming in the door.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_04: So it was it almost was almost like a fast food kind of feel to it because you had those people could sometimes there'd be a line of people at the counter.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so when I went to go to work at Hawksoft, they told me they were gonna have me just essentially doing customer service, what we called customer service at the time.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_04: Today we call it product support.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and I remember my first day, Jamie told me, trust me, this environment is never, never like what it was at the agency.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_04: Like where that phone ringing off the hook and Monday mornings were horrible.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_04: And he's like, it's it's much more quiet and much, you know, much just much more laid back than that.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_04: So I was looking forward to that.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_04: But basically that's what I did for the first six months was just just answer the phone.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_04: Um, we had a one other person, Jamie's wife, actually, who um did all the installs.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_04: So for new for new agencies, she did their onboarding, um, which is at that time consisted of installing the program, doing like a quick one-hour overview, and then you cut them loose.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_04: Pretty much what it was.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: This is the night.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_02: This is well, I guess it's 04 now, so it's not we're not on floppy disk for 05.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_04: Correct, correct.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: We were doing cloud at that point, or are you still going you're going on site like install um no?
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_04: We actually had we actually had WebEx.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_04: We were using Cisco WebEx, so we would talk people through connecting.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and we were doing installs out of state at that point, so that there wasn't too much on on site at that time.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we were we were actually you're sending them the software, right?
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're you're like physically made it.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_04: We were able, we were able to, we were able to download it in in 04 or 5.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: And they got like a key or whatever this is like.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_04: Um at that time, I don't think we even had a subscription key at that time.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_04: The the the installer was was hidden behind a password on our on our download center.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_04: So not just anybody could go get it, but uh, I don't think there was even any kind of any kind of keys.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_04: You just install it and you you use it.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_04: It was so there was a lot of a lot of honor system going on.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_04: And our our pricing at the time was was so was so silly.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, it was I was silly is not a good word because we were a small company.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_04: We had like 250 agencies when I started.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but it was literally$120 a month for your first office and$60 a month for each office after that.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_04: So they didn't even care how many users.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, it was just based on office at that point.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, I remember the day that I learned that it only costs$120 per month for that software.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_04: I was blown away by that.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, you kidding me for all that this does?
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_04: $120 a month?
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_04: Sign me up.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_04: I knew if I was if I was an agent, there's no way I would open my doors without having that in place because it's it was just it was a tool that was important and and it was cheap.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: So very, very good.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: Were most people coming?
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: Were most clients in the beginning just people that didn't have an AMS before?
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: And there were, you know, many so they weren't trade like going from a different AMS to you guys.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: It was more you know, they were.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_04: At that time, there's there was absolutely a lot of that at that time, but they still had the filing cabinets, um, and they were looking to go paperless.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_04: That was the buzzword of uh of the you know the early 2000s was go paperless, get those filing cabinets out.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_04: Um, we did have some, you know, some data conversions as well, but they were definitely in a higher percentage with no management system at that time, which is reversed today, of course.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but I was about six months in, um Jamie, Paul, and Sean uh all went to a big um a big convention, uh the American Agents Alliance in California, Southern California, and they brought back with them a big stack of business cards.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_04: And I'll never forget it was a Monday morning, and we actually had a meeting.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_04: It was the first meeting.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_04: Took six months before I had my first meeting there.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but we sat around and um we essentially decided to go ahead and do and and like like officially define some roles.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_04: And Jamie looked at me and he said, Darren, you're gonna be in charge of getting contracts.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_04: And he handed me this big stack of business cards.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_04: And I remember thinking, Oh, that that sounds like sales.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_04: Am I stepping into sales now?
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_04: And sure enough, that is exactly what it was.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_04: Um so I did sales from like September of 04 until about 18 months.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_04: So about March of 06 is when um we hired Chris Lejeune, um, who was pretty famous in the industry.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_04: Uh Chris is has passed now, so you know, we still mourn his loss.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, but Chris came in and um took the sales reins from me.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_04: And I was happy about that.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not a sales guy.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_04: I love to present um and I love doing demos.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_04: I loved, I was able to, you know, always tout the benefits of the software.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I can get exciting direct excited during a demo, and I think that's probably why they wanted me to do it.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_04: But when it came time to actually ask for the sale, that was when it was just not my my cup of tea.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not a sales guy.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but I do remember uh very clearly I remember a couple of deals that I closed that were like, you know, large-ish for for for the time and and how proud I was of myself, uh, especially when like uh I remember an annual paid in full check came in and it was like six grand.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_04: And uh our controller at the time, Dave Olsen, he came walking over to show me the check and patted me on the back.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_04: He said, Thank you, good job.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_04: You you you did this.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_04: So that was really cool.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: So are you, I mean, at this point, are you like, damn, maybe I should have stayed back home and not taken this job.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sitting in the sales seat.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_04: No, no, I always still felt comfortable with it, even though you even though I I kind of felt that it was just I just embraced the challenge.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_04: And I knew that the software was powerful enough to sell itself in some ways.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so and I wasn't asked ever to have, you know, like an aggressive approach.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_04: And so, you know, they really just approach, and even today, we our sales team kind of still approaches it the same way.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_04: They're they're they look at themselves more as consultants than as sales salespeople because Hawksoft then and now, um, if you're sitting through a demo with a Hoxoft rep, you're evaluating the software, they're evaluating your agency.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_04: And there is a mutual evaluation for fit that's happening right there.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and we will know our our our our sales guys will know right away if an agency is not going to be a good fit for Hawsoft.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_04: And that can sometimes be a tough conversation the other way, where if someone wants to come on board, but we foresee workflow problems, we foresee training, uh training challenges, um, we will agree to disagree and uh and walk away from a large agency if we believe that it's not a good fit for us.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and you know, vice versa, obviously agents will walk away from us if they don't believe it'll be a good fit.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_04: Uh so that's always been that that integrity has always kind of been there.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_04: And um, like I said, I was never asked to do any shady, you know, used car salesman type of stuff.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so it never really was uncomfortable to me to do sales.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_04: But that being said, I was happy to hand it off to a real sales guy when this when the day came.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: What what's what what are some of the things that you know makes you guys the right fit for the agency?
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: And what are some things that you guys look for?
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, that's a good question.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_04: It's a great question.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_04: Um, we feel that our our best fit is in uh small to medium sized agencies, um, anywhere from you know one to 20 or 30 users.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, we would still consider a 30 user agency kind of medium.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_04: Once you get above 30 users, it starts to get into that large area.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_04: Um, what we would call an enterprise agency.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_04: And we we absolutely have some enterprise agencies uh, you know, that are using Hawksoft and thriving with it.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_04: Um, we've just learned over the years that onboarding those agencies requires additional work.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_04: Um they have, you know, custom workflows that that may not really fit our kind of out-of-the-box molded workflows that we that we recommend.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_04: Um and I mean it's it's rare for us to truly say no to an agency, um, but we have in the past.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_04: Um accounting, special accounting needs um can definitely be a red flag where we might say, you know, well, this might not be a good fit.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but again, that's it's pretty rare.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_04: Uh I mention it because to me it feels like that piece of integrity that uh a lot of companies may not have where they would just they would see those dollars and just go for those dollars and just say, you know, throw caution to the wind and we'll get through it.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_04: Um we've always had more of a guarded, kind of cautious uh look to it.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_04: Um, Paul, Paul said one thing to me one day that that really stuck with me, and I still I still think about it today.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_04: Um the value of a friend is greater than the value of a dollar.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_04: And to to hear that coming from the CEO and entrepreneur of a company um was pretty pretty astounding.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_04: And he, like I said, he still stands by that today.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_04: And um, and that, you know, money does not drive hawks off.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_04: Uh it never has and it never will.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: I I I think that's interesting because I mean you guys obviously have a non-traditional way that you have grew this company, right?
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: You you I mean, like the big purple cow, right?
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh how how you guys present yourself and how you guys like how we see you in the market, how a lot of our user, a lot of our clients are your users.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: I I I think the number is like 30 or 40 percent.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: Somewhere in there, yeah.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: And and everybody's super and we trained all of our virtual assistants in you know, a Mr.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: Six, applied epic, easy Linux, and Hawksoft, but but like the people that are Hawksoft are like we're we're we're Hawksoft, they're like passionate.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: No one ring it, no one sorry applied, but no one's out there really raving about how much the you don't you don't hear it, you just don't hear it.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_04: No, um passionate, passionate is the word that we use.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_04: We we feel it, we hear it.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_04: Uh if you go out to one of our user group events, um it's amazing to see people get so excited about insurance software.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_04: Like, really, really think about what we're really talking about here.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but it's more it's so much more than that.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_04: It's it's the experience.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_04: It's you know, if you call our product support team, you're gonna get you're gonna get help.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_04: If you don't get help right on that call, they're gonna find somebody to help you, and you know that you have that trust and that you're gonna get a call back on that, probably within a day.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, that's just unheard of in today's world.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so and and we've somehow continued.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_04: to be able to have that throughout all these years.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_04: And yes, it it translates to to passionate users.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_04: Paul actually once compared us to Subaru because Subaru is, you know, kind of that kind of that company that flies under the radar.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_04: You don't see a ton of advertising.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_04: But if you talk to a Subaru driver, they'll never buy another car.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, they'll never buy it.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_04: They love Subaru.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_04: Yep, absolutely.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, Hawksoft is like the Subaru of AMS.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_04: That's that was one another one that Paul Hawkins came up with.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_04: So that's pretty cool.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: I like that.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: I feel I feel like that too.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: Indeed.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: Part of your marketing campaign.
• 22:38
  unknown: Yeah.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_04: Once the purple cow uh once we retire the purple cow that maybe we'll maybe we'll do some so let's so before we get into the purple cow and more you know kind of more advantages of hop stuff and things like that.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: So you let's fast forward to you know you you're you're kind of sitting in a bunch of different seats right the company starts growing you know is there like this aha moment where you're like this is this is going to work out this is you know this is going to become a major player in the space or did you kind of always just know it I can I kind of already I kind of always knew it um especially when we when we we cruised through the financial crisis of 2008 without even a blink we continued to grow.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_04: When when other companies were just you know shedding workers and shutting down and you know that there was there was no credit anywhere Oxoff was like debt free and continuing to grow uh we were continuing to hire we didn't lay anybody off it was amazing that was definitely an aha moment right then was like well if we can withstand something that's taking out you know half of the freaking corporate world and we don't even blink and we just push right through it that is like okay this is something's really special here.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_04: And then about a year later or it's really right around around the same time because in 2009 I realized that that it was kind of an aha moment for me for my career when uh I was tapped to essentially create a new department.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_04: And um me and and Leslie Wilcox who's actually Sean's mother-in-law um she joined the company and we decided to carve off um a team just to do the data conversions for the onboarding agents that were coming from from competitors because those conversions had picked up this was 2008 2009 uh we were starting to see you know more than half of the agencies coming in had a data conversion to do and before that the trainers themselves the actual agent that's onboarding they would actually handle all the conversion stuff and that was that was me I was on that team and we decided to just create a new set of a new a new department um to do database conversions only um and I was picked to do that along with Leslie and that was when I kind of was like okay now I've got kind of got my own thing now to build and uh and that was so much fun.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_04: And I can look at did they move you out of the office did they get you out of the closet by that point or you fall in the closet so by actually by that point we had already relocated twice.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_04: Okay good yeah so we were in actual cubicles um but yeah that was uh I still I still look at that department today and and you know have some pride because it's like it's it's it's it has a manager and a and a multiple staff members under it.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_04: When I departed that department that was in 15 um and I had done it for about five and a half years um at that time there was three people in that department and when I left they hired at least one to replace me and possibly even two right away because it was just so busy.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_04: And that was when I moved into product.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_04: So how many departments have you sat in so I would say all of them at this point now all of them except for like the accounting guys the the billing team got it never been on never been on that team but I have really worked in every department which one's your favorite um at this point I would absolutely say that my current one is my favorite um for the first saying that no it's it's a good question.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_04: It's a good question.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_04: Product was amazing.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_04: I I I I loved being a product owner um and really you know learning that skill and um it's it's an amazing job and I still think it's the best job in the company as product owner but after doing it for 10 years and um and building Hawksoft six uh migrating 3000 agencies um it was hard it was hard but from from like from from like 2020 until really until 20 like late 24 early 25 um some of my hardest years at the company absolutely getting through getting through that uh the building of a new product and and migrating everybody to it so I was ready to be done with product and move to something else when this opportunity came along so it really was the timing was perfect and I'm I'm having so much fun doing marketing um it's it's just a blast I would not be sitting here talking with you guys today if I wasn't in this job and I'm I'm having a ball so it's awesome.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: So tell tell us a little bit more about the current role and what what what what you're doing and what some of the goals are for the company.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_04: Sure.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah so um this this department actually started or the the park partner ecosystem as its own thing started in about 2019 um by Kenny Hendricks my predecessor here um and he worked hard to build the ecosystem that we have today um over a good solid five years and um when I came in and took this role we we're looking at a a little over 70 partners in the ecosystem total um a good mix of what they each do um about half of them are API partners so they're actually using um using data from our API to to do things that Hawksoft can't do for an agency.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_04: There was about a two month gap between when Kenny left and when I actually started and during that time um our chief marketing officer who I report to uh Rishang he actually um was kind of evaluating the the position the ecosystem itself and trying to decide you know what his what his vision for it was um so the first thing that I was that I was asked to do when I when I came in was was literally to tap the brakes on the the growth of the ecosystem um with over 70 we just kind of felt like we had enough and we wanted to kind of change the criteria a little bit for who we were going to accept uh as a partner.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_04: So we basically put those brakes on by setting a 15 mutual customers um minimum so in order to be considered to be a partner now we've got to bring us a list of 15 mutual customers that have been using your platform uh and the main reason for that is that we want to make sure that a a vendor that we're gonna put in our partner ecosystem is able to one provide the kind of experience that that we that our customers expect um two that they're able to grow and scale and continue to to to to provide that kind of experience as they grow and scale uh and three that they're just financially viable and we that we have confidence they'll they'll be around in a year or two.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_04: So I've been pretty shocked at the amount of interest that there is in our in in our partner program.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_04: I get multiple requests every week from vendors that are that are new startups that want to you know join our our our ecosystem.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_04: Most of them pretty much all of them at this point we're telling them please go build your business and we actually offer our API to our agencies at this time at no additional cost.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_04: So agencies are more than welcome to go go work with a trusted vendor if they find somebody who's doing something that they're that they're excited about and they can and they have enough trust then they can go ahead and get their API keys from us and we will go ahead and allow you know they can go ahead and share those with any vendor that they want to uh allowing that vendor to get their data build some integration do the testing um and then from there you know if they've if if they're they've got a good business plan and they're moving forward then they will continue to pick up other customers not only Hawksoft customers but other uh insurance agencies as well um and once they have that 15 then we have a talk and we actual be actually begin the vetting process for for a new partner.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_02: And is it common for agency management systems to give away their API for free or it's not it's not um other other vendors do charge uh a monthly fee for that API um we we may need to at some point um it's not free to us every every byte of data that moves through that api costs off money um so today we we um you know we we cover that cost but there will probably be a day come when we'll have to start charging something for it we've we've only begun chat chatting about it we have no we have no solid plans at this point or pricing models but we do believe that there will be a day when it won't be able to be free because there are more and more agencies coming reaching out to us every month that that want to get uh access to it and of course the more people that are on it and using it the more it's gonna cost yeah I I think it speaks to you know the philosophy the philosophy that you've been talking about this whole time though where you're trying to create an exceptional experience for your customers and allowing them to go access other softwares that are gonna make their job easier as an agency owner for free which no one else is doing I think really speaks to that yep purple cow so so for those that don't know let's talk about the purple purple cow what is what is the purple cow yeah so the purple cow was actually a very a rather rather old marketing um um adage I guess the the story is if you are driving home from work and you're driving across the country and you look at a field full of cows it's just a field full of cows and you're probably not gonna even tell anybody that you saw a field full of cows they're just out there grazing and doing their thing and you're going home from work you're tired.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_04: But if one of those cows had purple spots all over it or was fully purple sitting there in the middle of all the other cows that are just black and white you're probably gonna tell somebody that you saw that cow you're gonna tell your wife you're gonna tell your kids you're gonna call your brother say hey holy crap I just saw a purple cow I'm not even on drugs um so that that's kind of the kind of the adage is like if you saw a purple cow you would tell others about it.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_04: And so that's that's kind of the the the purple cow experience is that experience that we want to provide to everyone who comes across Hawksoft whether it's at a at a show um if it's you're visiting an agency um we calling in for a product support talking to one of our sales reps um we want to make sure that we stand out in a way that makes folks want to talk about us that's what's grown our business over the years and um continuing to work now.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_04: So that's purple cow.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: I love that I mean I I think like Dom and I obviously are business owners and we talk about this all all the time you know we we both have a background or we both started out in hospitality you have to provide people the best experience right it's it's it and it might you know it could be a five star restaurant right it could be a five star hotel or it could be a little hole in the wall where they just care so much about making sure that the food tasted great right the detail the details were were thought about and and that's the ones where you come home and you you know like you said call your friend and say that was absolutely amazing and that's something that we hammer home every single day to our team about about LA teams where we're it's like hey you know if people have an unbelievable experience with one of our team members they're gonna go tell you know one person, three people, five people and they're gonna continue to talk about it right because that that's what moves the needle and and that's how you continue to grow.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: And that I guess that's why we're great partners we we we understand each other a little bit so and share that view we share that philosophy.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: But that's cool.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's cool that you guys are you know been in business for a long time and could have changed your waves and said hey you know we're gonna go after that aggressive growth and we're gonna now go after a larger ICP and whatever the thing is so you talked about in the beginning AI uh tell us about AI tell us about you know some of the things you are looking at or some of the things that you know hox off is trying to do to incorporate AI as part of their workflows.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_04: So um Hawksoff is still kind of evaluating uh what we want to do with AI it's moving so fast um and that's also another reason why we are we really want to encourage agencies to get that API key and and you know don't we don't want people to be stifled by what we provide because we know that there are other many other vendors out there and even just like the open AI models themselves um if you have what's called an MCP address or an MCP server you can actually hook um Claude right into uh into an AMS database um and then Claude can do all kinds of crazy stuff with that data I mean I'm seeing people manipulate data and show them things that I would never even consider building a report in Hawks off to show Claude can do anything uh with that data almost um and it's pretty it's it's it's exciting but it's also quite frightening because it feels like it's moving so fast that a lot of folks maybe are not stopping to think uh about the potential ramifications of opening up that data.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_04: And I think the scariest thing for me is just really seeing it grow so fast and not really having any clarity as to what the future looks like.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_04: And that's probably the most unnerving part of it for myself.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_04: Um I actually really just really really saw what vibe coding even really is in the last couple weeks.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_04: I mean I've heard the term but I didn't realize really what that meant until someone was just showing me.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_04: It's like oh you just tell Claude what you want to see.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_04: I want to see a website that does A, B, C, and D.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_04: And Claude will go away and 10 minutes later for present you with a website that'll do A, B, and D and have a suggestion on how to accomplish C.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_04: You haven't written the line of code um you've just told told the browser what you'd like to see and and there it is.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_04: It's it's really it's really it's exciting but also like I said a little bit frightening.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think that oh go ahead please no well I was I I and I agree with you.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean I I I also think there's like the the other side of that argument and I agree like there's there's certain stuff that AI can do that humans can do right like it's it's just it's absolutely insane but then you're having you're kind of getting to this point where you're starting to start feeling a little AI fatigue right where it's like I like I just got an email and I I was trying to figure out if this is actually like purposely done or not where they're like you know we're gonna help you're Stan are you still at Starbucks and we're gonna help you solve this problem.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: It was like something with like toilet cleaning and I was like I like you could tell it was like an AI rent email and I was like where where how why right but you're because now you're just you're doing everything so fast right you're throwing so much shit part of my French against a wall to see what sticks.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: And now you're getting now you're getting like overload where it's like hey I just want somebody to call me and talk to me like a normal human being right as opposed to getting like the same email message 15 times a day that sounds exactly the same.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_04: My biggest concern is right now is most folks that are in this business as agents are are the core the core reason we're insurance agents is to help our our communities is to protect our communities and um I hope that insure tech does not start to overshadow that main reason for why we're in business to do to to write policies and to protect our our our communities.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_04: With the the focus that we're seeing on sure tech it almost feels like some agencies are really just more focused on making money than that core reason that the this bus this business exists in the first place.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_04: My goal is to um is to make sure that I communicate that and um do what I can to alleviate to keep that from happening.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_04: I want to make sure that we stay focused as agents on on the reason that we're doing this business and not get so distracted by my steck tech my tech stack that I that I I I failed I start to lose that that vision of of why we're doing this in the first place because it's it feels like that's just the focus right now um this year especially is focusing on the tech stack and that's that's what can I do to be more efficient.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_04: And when we focus on how to be more efficient at the end of the day it almost feels like we're just focusing on how to make more money.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_04: And um if we're if our our goals for efficiency are just to provide a better experience to our customers then yes by all means let's become more efficient.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_04: But if we're just focusing on making money then I believe that we're starting to lose sight of the reason that we're doing it in the first place.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_04: And I don't want that to happen.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah I think insurance is very much still a relationship business.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like we go to a lot of conferences we shake a lot of hands you know we we do all this stuff and you know seeing the agents together and hearing them talk about how they've grown their business like most of them are still growing by referrals most of them are still you know part of their community board or their church or their synagogue or like whatever they're still just involved in their community and supporting that community.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_02: And so you know as much as the world is kind of and insurance to an extent as well is is diving into AI it feels like this will be one of the last ones to completely lose I hope so its soul so to speak.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good way to put it I think I think you hit on it right.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean and I think what you said is super profound.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think I think there's obviously going to be winners right I think there's gonna be companies out there that are like we're gonna get really efficient we're gonna you know we're gonna be able to you know buy out more companies or flip to private equity or whatever it is like there's gonna be a lot of winners but then there's going to be people that are going to be like I don't want to go work for that company anymore right or or I don't want to work with that company anymore.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: And now I want that human touch and and the ones that are going to be you know kind of still taking care of the people those are the ones that are that they're gonna win that business long term right because at the end of the day last thing you want to do is call your insurance broker and some AI picks up and starts starts starts telling you like my house burned down yeah but I'm gonna go talk to an AI bot now.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: Oh I'm sorry to hear that I mean that's just not gonna work uh yeah well well this this this is definitely an interesting conversation let's get to my favorite part of the show where we ask you some personal questions and get to know Darren Rapid Fire all right let's do it rapid fire uh what is your favorite sport to watch Darren football are you a teams fan uh no i'm uh so i'm a i'm a colts fan first because i was born in indiana and now i know the colts came from baltimore i remember the i remember when they snuck out of snuck out of the city in the middle of the night and showed up in Indianapolis still mad and more about that by the way I know they are they are and they'll never they'll never forget it uh never forgive um but yeah but then I'm I live in Michigan now so I have to be a Lions fan um Michigan Lions fans are the most the most
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_04: Religious, dedicated football fans I've ever met.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I grew I Michigan was a second home to me as I was growing up.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_04: So I was there through all the bad Lions years.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but these folks are diehard.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_04: They do not care if their team wins or loses.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_04: They love it if they win, but they're fine if they lose.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_04: There are still Lions parties every single Sunday.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_04: Uh and the the the city just bleeds blue in the in in the in the fall, and it's great.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_04: I love it.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_02: Did you have one of the paper bags over your head back?
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_04: Uh I wasn't really a big Lions fan until I lived here.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_04: Now that I live here, um, then yeah, I I I'm I'm I'm on I'm on board with the bandwagon for sure.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Dom and I are both Jeff fans, so we we we uh give kudos to the Lions because they actually turned it around.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_01: So you know we we look at you guys and say there's still hope for us.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_04: Yep, there's a there's a success.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_04: It's tiny glimmer, indeed.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_04: You guys have to deal with the Patriots in your division all those years.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, not fun.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um what's the hardest no you've ever turned into a yes?
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_04: Ooh.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, you guys didn't let me prepare for this one.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_04: Hardest no I turned into a yes.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_04: Might be when I when I actually got my wife to let me move to Canby to go work for Hawks office.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_04: Honestly, that might be the one.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_04: Um, because it was a pretty hard no.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_04: And uh yeah, she saw how she saw how it affected me because I actually did turn the job offer down.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_04: Um and she's she saw how it affected me for a couple weeks.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_04: Um when she finally changed her mind and said, you know what, let's if that if they're still willing to have you, let's let's let's just do this.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_04: Um there's a little bit of a sheepish call when I called Paul back and said, Hey, um we would like to do this if the if the offer is still open.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_01: So did he did he try to trade trade on the number and say I'll give you some process?
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_04: He didn't to his credit.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_04: He didn't.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_04: Uh he didn't tell me yes right away on the phone, though.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_04: He said, Let me talk to my partners and I'll get back to you.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_04: So he made me he made me sit and and and be nervous for a little bit.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_04: Yep, exactly.
• 46:19
  unknown: Yeah.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: Shout out to the wife and kids for uh coming through the clutch.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh who's one person you would love to have dinner with?
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_04: Uh Daddy Lee.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_04: Singer and bass player for Rush.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_04: My very favorite player.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_04: There you go.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_04: That's awesome.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_04: Yep.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, what is a partner integration you wish existed but doesn't exist yet?
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: We got all the hard questions for you today.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's a I'm drawing a blank on that one, guys.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_04: That's not something I've even thought about, to be honest.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_01: So something we'll we'll we'll end the questions on that though.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_01: Something to to think about after af afterwards.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_04: It will come to me.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_04: It will come to me, probably today.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: Where uh so for those people that are watching at home and wanna or listening and wanna learn more about you know Hawkso as a as an AMS, how how can they find you guys?
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, yeah.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_04: Uh so our website is hoxoft.com, pretty simple.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_04: Um, if you uh are interested in a sales demo, you can go there, follow the prompts.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but uh sales at hoxoft.com is the email address to request um someone to reach out for a demo.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_04: Um we've got uh we've got um the uh representatives all over the country.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_04: Um uh and some of them still do on-site demos if you happen to be in a city where one of our our sales uh representatives lives.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_04: Uh we actually call them sales consultants.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_04: So still today, same, like I said, same philosophy, no high pressure.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_04: Um, we just want to show what we've got and and let agencies evaluate whether or not it might be a good fit.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Darren, we appreciate you coming on to elevate the hustle and sharing your story and hops off story.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we you know, we you guys are a great partner.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_01: And like I said, we've never met a person that says, like, uh soft.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_01: So uh whatever, whatever you got, whatever you guys are doing, keep doing it.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we hope you guys enjoyed the show and we'll see you guys back here next week.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, everybody.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you so much for having me.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_04: It was really a pleasure.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_04: Really was, guys.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_04: We really enjoyed it.