Latest / Leaders In Payments / Embedded Finance That Scales with Jane Podbelskaya, Charge Forward | Episode 529

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Embedded Finance That Scales with Jane Podbelskaya, Charge Forward | Episode 529 · Leaders In Payments

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Leaders in Payments podcast, where we talk to sea-level leaders from across the payments landscape.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: We'll be discussing the products and services that impact the payment space today, as well as trends and predictions for the future of payments.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: We will also hear stories from our guests about their journeys to the top.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: The title of today's episode is Driving Embedded Finance Adoption to Grow Revenue.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: So we're going to be exploring what it takes for a vertical SaaS company to successfully launch, scale, and drive meaningful revenue from embedded finance, from the right people and technology to adoption to execution and measurement.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: So, Jane, thank you so much for joining me today and welcome to the show.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks so much for having me, Greg.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's a pleasure.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: So before we jump into the questions, please give us a quick rundown on your background and maybe walk us through Charge Forward a little bit.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: Happy to.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: I started my career as a software engineer and progressed to become software architect, solutions architect.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: And after completing my MBA, I went on to become a management consultant.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_02: So worked with the Baynon company.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_02: And then I came back to the technology world, but as an investor.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: So I spent a decade as a VC.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: And this is where it starts to get really relevant to Charge Forward because the first six years of my investor career was spent investing in B2B SaaS, Growth Stage Software Companies.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: I was with Georgian, it's a growth equity fund focused on North American businesses.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: And that's when I learned everything about SaaS model and what we now call vertical software.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: And in at the end of 2020, beginning of 2021, I changed my path.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I actually, that's when I first dove into fintech.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I joined an early stage fintech fund, Information Venture Partners, where I was investing and sitting on boards of many fintechs, including PayPax, InsureTech, Banking Tech, lending tech.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: And that's when I started to form my thesis around embedded finance and the idea that vertical software companies have this amazing opportunity to embed and offer financial services without actually the need to build them by embedding so-called embedded finance vendors.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: And in 2024, I launched, I decided to step away from venture career and I launched Charge Forward.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: And my mission is to help the vertical SaaS and non-financial software companies to create new revenue streams from financial services.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I do it by running advisory.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: I also run a media platform and community focused on embedded finance, where founders and executives of non-financial software companies learn everything about the way they can create significant revenue streams from embedded finance.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: So that's me.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: So again, very happy to talk about this topic today.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, as people who are listening, if they've listened to the last episode, they know what we're focusing on, which of course is the vertical SaaS community and really how we can take embedded finance to the next level.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think one of the topics that I don't hear a lot about is organizational readiness.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: So what does organizational readiness for embedded finance actually look like?
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_02: That's a great question.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I find that people tend to fall into two categories.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: One that thinks that launching a financial product is a massive undertaking, and you have to hire a large compliance and risk team and fintech experts.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: And the other extreme where people think, oh, it's just like I plug in Stripe and I'm ready to go.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_02: And neither is correct 100%.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: So, like what's really readiness means is um, well, I would put it into different categories.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: So technical readiness and organizational readiness are a bit different.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_02: Technical readiness is like, how ready do we have engineering capacity to plug in this product?
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_02: And yes, this can be as simple as uh let's read Stripe's documents and figure out their APIs and add their payments capabilities.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: That that is totally the case.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: But much more important is organizational readiness.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_02: And embedded finance vendors have made it's much easier now, so you don't really need to hire those big compliance and risk teams.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: At the same time, people sometimes don't understand that readiness means more than just, again, technology.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: First of all, is well, is there a customer problem to be solved?
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_02: Or did you just come up with the idea of like adding payments, adding lending for the sake of it?
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: Because everybody says that you're gonna make a lot of money of this.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: Is there a workflow that your software is automating that is adjacent to financial moment in the life of your customer, whether it's again payments or lending or insurance?
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: So figuring out if there's a customer need is number one.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_02: Number two is somebody senior needs to own embedded finance product.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I would underscore the word senior.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: And why is because again, launching financial products is not like adding a feature, it's really building a new business unit.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: And so the third component of readiness, I would say, is cross-functional alignment, which again is best done if you have a leader or owner, somebody who owns the initiative of launching an embedded finance product.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: The cross-functional alignment means that you, your product team, your engineering team, your design, like UX design team, your customer support team, your sales team, your marketing team, your customer success, operations, legal, finance, they all are aligned and moving in the same direction to help your product be launched and be successful and adopted and used by the customer.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I would say the key question is like, it's not like, oh, let's integrate fintech.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, are we ready to operate a financial business inside of our software business?
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love the way you put that because that that kind of like puts the puts it all together is you know, are we ready to actually build a financial product?
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's a great way to view it.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: So you mentioned a whole bunch of teams and you mentioned having a leader.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, do you see it as just people you're borrowing time from all these different groups, or do you think there's actually a team?
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: So what kind of team should be in place that actually supports this?
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think it, you know, the answer is going to be it depends, right?
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think bigger companies, you end up having a bigger team, smaller or smaller, but not just the size, but what kind of people should be on the team that's really in place to support this strategy?
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_02: This is actually a very interesting question for embedded finance products because when we say you need a team, it actually doesn't necessarily need you need to hire 20 people to focus solely on this new financial product.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: We're talking here about, I would use the word virtual team.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: So the team consists of your executives, like your existing executives and team members that now allocate part of their time and attention to this new product.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I listed some of them just earlier.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_02: So let me walk through them once again.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: So product, right?
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: So obviously somebody needs to own it at the product level.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_02: So how do you actually integrate it, embed it, introduce it into UIUX where your customers are actually going to encounter this new financial feature?
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_02: Engineering does the hard work of building and integrating the tech at the back end.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: Finance needs to figure out the, well, first of all, the economics and the business case.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_02: And later on, they need to have ongoing reporting so that they could actually report on financial success and track all the financial metrics.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: The go-to-market is actually another one that is typically undervalued and underappreciated.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_02: That again, it's not enough to just embed and integrate and put the button into UIUX.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_02: Your sales team needs to know how to sell payments or lending, and the compensation structure is quite often different than it is for subscription-based products.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_02: Customer success, again, there's customer support components.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: So support needs to know how to answer questions about, like, oh, why my payment is not not going through?
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_02: Or I my I seem to be encountering some fraud issues, or my customer is trying to figure out this loan application and they're stuck, they can't figure it out, help me.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_02: So support needs to be educated on the financial side of your product.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: And customer success needs to again proactively work with the customers to help them learn about this new product and effectively drive the upsell motion.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: Legal and compliance and risk.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_02: This is where, again, things are very different from what they were five, 10 years ago, where you had to have a big department managing all the compliance and risk questions.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_02: Now, a lot of this is going to be outsourced to your embedded finance partner who will manage it on your behalf and for you.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the beauty of embedded finance.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_02: But then you need to have someone to manage that partnership.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_02: So that is another person or role is uh managing your embedded finance vendor relationships.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_02: So hopefully, this gives you a flavor that it's the embedded finance product is owned by a whole team, but this team is basically the people that you already have.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_02: And it all leads back to the leader.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like, do you have a general manager or a leader who manages this cross-functional virtual team to drive the product success?
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I love the way you covered the kind of organizational part and the people.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: And you had mentioned earlier, let's break it into two.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: So you got that part and you've got technology.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: So let's talk a little bit about technology.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: What technology foundation is needed to move from that point of launch to a meaningful scale?
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I would say the obvious layer is integration.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: And this is where, for instance, when you're choosing a partner, whether it's a payments company, whether it's a lending partner, you analyze and assess their tech stack versus your tech stack to understand how like compatible they are, how easy the integration is gonna be.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_02: And hopefully you select your partner based on your findings, because you're gonna be again joined at the hip and exchanging a lot of uh data flows.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_02: But what comes next is uh, for example, ledgering and reconciliation.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like once you have money flowing through your platform, your finance team needs to know what's going on and why.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: First of all, to because it's it's an area where your customer will have a lot of scrutiny, and you cannot be wrong in how many dollars you move around.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: And also because if you are, let's say, taking a rev share of that payment flow or of that lending volume or of that insurance you sold, you want to track and you want to track all the economics.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_02: So you need to build a tech stack that is uh again giving you this observability.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_02: Other things to monitor, obviously, any issues and errors.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: So, like if a payout fails or a customer can't on board, like you need to be tech enabled to be able to see what that problem is.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: Your support team will likely use that.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: Again, you're likely gonna be splitting support with the partner, with a vendor.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: Let's say your team will be doing first-level technical support, and then the the vendor team, the partner team is gonna do more in-depth support, like tier two, but still you want to have as much insight into what's going on to enable your support team to answer at least some of the quick questions.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I guess like the way to frame it is that at launch you care about that API connection, and at scale, you build an operating system, essentially.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: So we've talked about people and processes and now technology.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: How do you get all that to work together to truly drive adoption and revenue?
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_02: I like that you mentioned adoption because it's not enough to just add a button or embed that payments.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: If your customers are not using it, you're not gonna see the revenue.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I keep on talking about it like I'm a broken record.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: I talked about this in the last episode, and I'm gonna talk about this a lot again.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like that adoption is paramount for you to actually see the revenue.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_02: So, like high-level technology gets connected and it gives you visibility and it tells you what's happening.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: Processes that you put in your organization help you determine what you do about it, and people make decisions and improve the system.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_02: And then let me explain.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_02: I know it sounds kind of high-level.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: So, for example, your technology shows you that oh, this particular customer is growing quickly, they're processing a lot of payment volume, and oh, they have seasonality in their volumes.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe they're solving snowboards, right?
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: So they're very hot in the summer, and in the or maybe again, maybe it's an events organization where you have a cash flow gap between the time you're preparing to run an event and by the time you get the revenue from the ticket sales.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: So there's a cash flow gap.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: So technology can give you that visibility, but you need to have some kind of a process in place to pick up that change in that customer.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: And let's say you need to configure your product to surface a loan offering for this organization.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe for this snowboarding shop, you offer them a loan in September so they could stock the latest and greatest snowboards for the season, or maybe for the events organization, you know that they always have a cash flow dip four months before the event, so you can offer them a loan at that moment.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: And then the customer success team, like the people side, right?
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: They can also pick up a phone and call that customer to say, like, hey, we noticed uh that your business is doing really well, but you have certain seasonality, so you know you may have seen there's this button that we added in our product, or you may have seen it in our marketing email, but let us explain us what it is.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: It really is a loan and it's uh it's legit.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's we're using your data to price it, so you're not gonna get such a great offer from a bank.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: So why don't you take advantage of this great opportunity?
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: And then you measure the outcomes.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_02: Did this customer accept the offer?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: Did they decline it?
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: Why did they actually take advantage of the loan?
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_02: Did they pay it back?
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_02: Did they grow faster because of that?
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: Did their business did better this year?
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: So measuring loop gives you this again, this operating system.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: I keep on using this term.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_02: So ultimately, like success of the embedded finance tends to be like contextual, like the right financial products offered to the right customer at the right moment inside the right workflow where the needs appear.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: And that is again enabled by technology, process, and people.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: Well, in the next episode, we're actually going to be talking about this all from an investor perspective.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: We've got a special guest for that episode.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna ruin it by telling people, but you'll you'll hear that coming up in a couple of weeks.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: But the metrics is one thing that investors obviously have.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: But from where you are and talking to the operators every day, and you know, let's assume that this vertical size company has this products embedded.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: What metrics do you see that matter the most when evaluating whether the strategy is even working or not?
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: This is my favorite question, I guess, because I I carry my investor hat on when I talk at any client.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: There's quite a few to measure and to track.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_02: So let me explain.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: Revenue obviously is a very good indicator.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: If you're making a lot of revenue from your financial product, it's working.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: But the problem with revenue, it's a lagging indicator, right?
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's you're trying to identify how well your financial product is performing before the quarterly board report comes out.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_02: So, first, I advise customers and companies to think about the total legibility or addressable volume.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like what is the total potential GMV that all your customers could be processing?
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_02: And obviously, that is connected to the need that we talked about before, like whether your customers actually need the product and if they're processing certain volume elsewhere, which you're trying to move.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: So the second one would be adoption, like how many of your customers actually signed up for your payments or took on your lending product or used the insurance.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: And the next one is what again, what share of that addressable volume of each customer or in total is actually starting to go through your platform?
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's not enough for customers to sign up to like go through KYC to sign up for your payments.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: They actually need to start processing their payments.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_02: And if they're or they need to start asking for a loan, and you kind of like start to measure what is their total volume they're processing versus percentage of that volume that goes through your system.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_02: Are they uh obtaining loans somewhere else, or they're is their customers using the insurance product, or are they going somewhere else or not?
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_02: So figuring out those tiers, and then you look at like more like economics metrics, such as they create, how much revenue per customer, gross margin?
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_02: Those are kind of the most obvious ones that people think about.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_02: But then also, and this is where we're going again closer to investor lens is what are the indirect metrics that are being impacted by the financial products?
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: Are customers that let's say use your payments or use your lending, do they have higher attention?
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_02: Do they have higher revenue per client?
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_02: Do they give you higher satisfaction scores and feedback?
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: Is it improving your customer acquisition?
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: So, this is, for example, this one is like maybe trickier to measure.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: Your investors, of course, will also want to measure your cost of customer acquisition.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_02: But at first, you you can start talking to your sales to hear like, well, your sales are pitched payments capabilities, lending capabilities.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_02: Is it making it close like easier to sell to close that deal?
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: So if they're saying that yes, customers get excited about this, or this is a deal maker versus a competitor that doesn't have a financial capability, so that tells you that yeah, you're actually winning more deals.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I guess ultimately the investor lens is to drive higher growth rates and higher multiples.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: But again, those are more the result of everything that we just talked about.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: So I would say the takeaway line here would be like don't just measure fintech revenue.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_02: Fintech revenue is like as a percentage of your overall revenue, is like super valuable, of course, but like try to think about like how much of your customers' like financial lives you already own.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: So this is what would be like more conceptual level on the metrics.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you obviously have a lot of experience with these companies from you know an investor perspective, and then obviously with your advisory work.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: So, what do you think separates the companies that are successfully scaling embedded products versus those that are struggling?
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_02: Some of the things that I already mentioned, such as do they have leadership, senior leadership, who owns this as a product?
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_02: This is like honestly parameter number one.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: I always saw that, and I kind of like just from experience, I thought this.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Be the case, but then I believe Rainforest came up with a benchmarking survey and they actually measured that upside from having a full-time owner, the impact is very measurable both on the take rate, on the attached rates.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: So they were the first one who actually put numbers on the difference between having a leader or not.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: And again, in some cases, it's totally okay to start with a fractional leadership, but as long as you have leadership and owners, right?
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_02: As long as somebody that his whose role includes owning the embedded finance products.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: So that is probably number one.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: Another thing is understanding this attachment and distribution.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_02: So this is where I actually published some research.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: I was curious myself to understand.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like there's like 10 different parameters you can move to improve your revenue from, let's say, payments.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: You can improve your take rate, you can negotiate your contract, you can do like L2, L3 optimization, you can improve your UI UX.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_02: There's so many things you can improve.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like I actually modeled which one gives you the highest revenue lift at different stages of your embedded payments adoption.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: And at the very early stages of your embedded payments program life, it may be about the model you use, the take rate you negotiated.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_02: But once you start to scale, there's one clear winner there: adoption.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_02: Adoption and usage.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like how many of your customers have you have adopted your payments?
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: What share of their payments are coming from?
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: That just disproportionate level on the ultimate.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: And finally, I would say it's the same idea of the owners, right?
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like you do you see embedded finance as another feature you just added, or do you see it as part of your strategy?
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: Do you see this as a new PL, as a new business unit, as a new business line?
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_02: And this is where it's uh a bit different from many other products where you literally create a team around.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_02: As I just mentioned above, here your team can be virtual and shared with other departments, but there needs to be a team, there needs to be cross-functional alignment, and there needs to be a leader.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_02: Embedded finance rarely succeeds just because like the API was successfully flagged in.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's because somebody actually took the ownership and like built the business around it.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: No, it makes makes perfect sense.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think people will appreciate that.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well, as we come to a close for this episode to wrap up, what is the one key takeaway you want vertical SaaS operators that might be listening today to leave from this discussion?
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_02: I would say that think about embedded finance as a new monetization and a new like customer, I want to say value layer that you are building on top of what your vertical SaaS company already has.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_02: So what do you have as a vertical SaaS company?
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like you have you own the workflow, you own customer relationships, and you have proprietary data about your customer.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_02: And also, by the way, as you add more financial products, you start owning more data.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_02: So if you add payments, you actually uh own more, even more data about this customer because you really see their daily operations and how much this restaurant is uh booking or making how much this yoga studio is uh is earning per month.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: So you have this proprietary data set, and no financial institution has that data.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_02: And this is really what's fascinating me about like embedded finance is that vertical software companies are in such an amazing and powerful position to use this relationships, use this data, use this workflow ownership to deliver and delight their customers with embedded finance offerings that was just not ever possible by traditional financial institutions like banks or insurance companies.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_02: So I would say this just take advantage of this truly amazing opportunity that embedded finance represents.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_02: This was not possible just a decade ago, as we talked on the last episode.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: And now you can do it and you can grow your business while doing that.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_02: So that's gonna be my advice.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: Just just do it.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: Nike style.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: There you go.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: Just do it.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think that's a great, great way to wrap up the show.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: So, Jane, thank you so much for being here.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: I know your time is very valuable, so I really appreciate it.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I look forward to the next one as well.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks so much, Greg.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_02: This was really fun.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so audience, to learn more about Embedify, where you're gonna hear even more of this great information from our great panels and speakers and content, just visit embedify2026.com.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: You can go there, you can learn more, and you can register to attend.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for joining us this week on the Leaders in Payments Podcast.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: Make sure you visit our website at leadersinpayments.com, where you can subscribe to the show and where you'll find our show notes.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: If you enjoyed listening, please share on your social channels as well.