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Ask The Chiefs: The Zen Edition · B Shifter

• 1:00
  John Vance: You always used to start.
• 1:01
  Nick Brunacini: Yeah, who should?
• 1:02
  Nick Brunacini: I don't know where I saw this, but it was a million years ago.
• 1:06
  Nick Brunacini: It was fascinating to me And I said, if there's like an asteroid or anything from outer space breaching through the atmosphere, coming towards the Earth, you know it heats up as it comes in And I said it'll get so hot.
• 1:19
  Nick Brunacini: And they said if you see it go to purple, then you will be cooked within the next two to three seconds.
• 1:27
  Nick Brunacini: It will heat up very quickly And just you're going to explode into flame Really.
• 1:34
  Nick Brunacini: And so when you see it coming and it goes purple, maybe close your eyes for your gratitude, whatever before the end, and then you're going to meet your people.
• 1:44
  Terry Garrison: Yeah.
• 1:45
  Nick Brunacini: Yeah, so that's it, but that's science.
• 1:47
  Nick Brunacini: Purple rain Jimmy sang about it.
• 1:51
  Nick Brunacini: I guess none of that was actually.
• 1:53
  John Vance: He talked about the haze Prince was the rain.
• 1:56
  Nick Brunacini: Now.
• 1:56
  Nick Brunacini: Does the rain come ahead of the haze or does the haze come after the rain?
• 2:01
  Terry Garrison: There's a group called purple.
• 2:02
  Terry Garrison: What was it?
• 2:03
  Terry Garrison: Purple rain.
• 2:04
  John Vance: New writers of the purple sage.
• 2:06
  Terry Garrison: Purple sage No, that's a country group.
• 2:08
  John Vance: Deep purple, deep purple.
• 2:11
  Nick Brunacini: That was Smoke on the Water.
• 2:12
  Nick Brunacini: Smoke on the Water.
• 2:13
  Nick Brunacini: What was that song about?
• 2:15
  Nick Brunacini: That was Eight Track.
• 2:16
  John Vance: Remember what that song was about Smoke on the Water.
• 2:18
  Nick Brunacini: Fire in the Sky.
• 2:19
  John Vance: My Woman from Tokyo.
• 2:21
  John Vance: Yeah, that was a different song.
• 2:22
  Nick Brunacini: Like it was.
• 2:22
  Nick Brunacini: It was the same album Machine Head.
• 2:26
  John Vance: Yeah, i think it was.
• 2:27
  John Vance: I should be on Jeopardy a rock and roll.
• 2:30
  Nick Brunacini: Jeopardy.
• 2:30
  Nick Brunacini: It's just our childhood as all will remember it.
• 2:36
  John Vance: I don't know anything about modern music, no, or like country music.
• 2:40
  Terry Garrison: You probably know country music, yeah, but why you got a point at me like that?
• 2:43
  Terry Garrison: No, don't make any negative.
• 2:46
  Nick Brunacini: You know country music?
• 2:47
  Nick Brunacini: Yeah, I know country.
• 2:49
  John Vance: I have no idea anything about country music.
• 2:51
  John Vance: I don't like country music.
• 2:52
  John Vance: Yeah, i like old country music.
• 2:54
  John Vance: Have you seen a?
• 2:54
  Terry Garrison: girl with a big belt buckle and those tight jigs.
• 2:57
  Terry Garrison: Country music's OK Yeah.
• 2:59
  John Vance: Yeah, it's a good way to grow up.
• 3:02
  Nick Brunacini: Line dancing and stuff.
• 3:03
  Terry Garrison: I never line dance.
• 3:05
  John Vance: You have a cowboy hat though.
• 3:06
  Terry Garrison: I had a cowboy hat.
• 3:07
  Terry Garrison: I was big cat.
• 3:08
  Terry Garrison: What do they call it?
• 3:09
  Terry Garrison: Big hat?
• 3:09
  Terry Garrison: no cattle Yeah.
• 3:10
  Terry Garrison: Yeah, that's who I was Me.
• 3:12
  John Vance: Big bowls in Caltown.
• 3:13
  John Vance: There you go, all right.
• 3:15
  John Vance: Hey, thanks for joining us today on the Be Shifter podcast.
• 3:20
  John Vance: John Vance, nick Brunassini and Terry Garrison here And it's another round of Ask the Chiefs.
• 3:27
  John Vance: We had so many questions stockpiled that we're back to them.
• 3:31
  John Vance: We have a couple more today, so you guys ready to dive into?
• 3:34
  Terry Garrison: this, we are.
• 3:35
  John Vance: All right, First question.
• 3:37
  John Vance: I have a question for the chiefs Meditation slash.
• 3:41
  John Vance: Mindfulness is a hot topic in the first responder community for mental health.
• 3:46
  John Vance: What are your thoughts on its effectiveness?
• 3:48
  John Vance: Do you use it personally And in your opinion, are there benefits for improving incident commander performance not just mental health recovery, but resilience?
• 3:58
  John Vance: You guys think about that.
• 4:02
  Terry Garrison: I'm going to let you start.
• 4:03
  Terry Garrison: today, i got to think about my mental wellness.
• 4:08
  Nick Brunacini: Meditation and mindfulness.
• 4:09
  Nick Brunacini: I think that's a good thing.
• 4:12
  Nick Brunacini: I retired.
• 4:13
  Nick Brunacini: I got hooked into yoga, for whatever reason, very quickly, so me and another friend of mine who had retired were discussing what to do to stay in shape X, y and Z And so, growing up in the fire service and the traditional roles that we filled it was more of whiskey and football would describe our past time in activities, whereas really at this point in my life, i think that's somewhat toxic.
• 4:51
  Nick Brunacini: It's not good for your brain either.
• 4:53
  Nick Brunacini: One of those activities.
• 4:54
  Nick Brunacini: So you should really experience some moderation with that kind of stuff.
• 4:59
  Nick Brunacini: And what I find, as far as this question goes, and just kind of your own mental health, that worked better for me was yoga, and cannabis really were a better way to move forward, and so I think I'm in better health today than I was in 2009 when I retired.
• 5:20
  Nick Brunacini: I feel better, and a lot of that is just kind of it's your mental outlook.
• 5:26
  Nick Brunacini: There's also a big piece of it.
• 5:27
  Nick Brunacini: So, between that and working on that and sleeping, getting eight hours of sleep and drinking plenty of fluids all the silly bullshit we used to tell people on EMS calls sleep eight hours, drink plenty of fluids.
• 5:40
  Nick Brunacini: It was the best advice we could have given anybody.
• 5:42
  Nick Brunacini: I mean, it's really kind of the key to life, and so I'm kind of following my advice.
• 5:47
  Nick Brunacini: Now To answer this question yes, and I think it will make you a better IC, because it makes you a better person.
• 5:53
  Nick Brunacini: You're a little more patient, you're a little more I don't know mature in the way you deal with pressures and issues that come up during the day.
• 6:04
  Terry Garrison: It's funny because the way you just described that and we talked about country music is that is Hank Williams' junior song.
• 6:11
  Terry Garrison: It's certainly All my Roddy friends have settled down and doing more iced tea and cornbread instead of the hard stuff, but yeah, i think it's absolutely important.
• 6:22
  Terry Garrison: So for me it's probably more spiritual.
• 6:25
  Terry Garrison: That's just kind of the way I am in my life.
• 6:27
  Terry Garrison: But yeah, i think you have to have a if you don't have a quiet place to go to.
• 6:32
  Terry Garrison: wherever you, however, you get there and you hear that noise all the time.
• 6:37
  Terry Garrison: And I think that's when I watch TV nowadays, even if I'm not really watching.
• 6:44
  Terry Garrison: I watch something that just I'm not even paying attention.
• 6:48
  Terry Garrison: It's more like background noise.
• 6:50
  Nick Brunacini: It's like the fire stations that we worked in, there was always three TVs, four radios.
• 6:54
  Nick Brunacini: So, there are the PAs going and nobody paid any attention to adding on it.
• 6:59
  Terry Garrison: No, i think that's where my ears are ringing today, constantly.
• 7:03
  Nick Brunacini: Sometimes they would get bored and they'd just go and blow the sirens for the hell of it.
• 7:06
  Nick Brunacini: Yeah, woo, yeah.
• 7:09
  Terry Garrison: But I think it's awesome that somebody would write this question about the meditation, the mindfulness, because it really is important And we don't think about it.
• 7:19
  Terry Garrison: Bruno actually had a lot of comments about that years ago when he started talking about wellness.
• 7:26
  Terry Garrison: Right, he wanted that to be included in our wellness program, where at the time being a knucklehead that I was when I heard wellness first thing, i thought, oh, i'm gonna have to do more pushups and increase my bench or box steps or whatever.
• 7:41
  Terry Garrison: But he was talking about total wellness the physical wellness and the mental wellness.
• 7:46
  Terry Garrison: So yeah in fact he brought in people over our career.
• 7:49
  Terry Garrison: Some of them were successful and they connected with firefighters and some of them weren't successful, they didn't connect with firefighters.
• 7:58
  Terry Garrison: I know that in Houston we had a wonderful man, a doctor, dr Busser, who that I was able to connect with while I was there and he was really concerned about the mindfulness of our employees in Houston And he did a really good job there.
• 8:18
  Terry Garrison: He helped me out as a chief officer.
• 8:20
  Terry Garrison: So as a chief officer you spend a lot of time alone and thinking about the decisions you make and the next one you're gonna have to make and kind of having somebody to bounce that off of that isn't critical kinda.
• 8:35
  Terry Garrison: That was good for me, but I think that was part of that mental wellness.
• 8:40
  Terry Garrison: So I didn't realize what he was doing at the time.
• 8:46
  Nick Brunacini: Yeah, I think that's a big piece of it.
• 8:49
  Nick Brunacini: When we started our careers, our idea of mindfulness and fitness were different back then.
• 8:57
  Nick Brunacini: As you were more it was more built around resilience and there's nothing that can hurt me And I can go in and battle all these demons and do all this nonsense.
• 9:07
  Nick Brunacini: I bench press 400 pounds.
• 9:09
  Nick Brunacini: I can do X, y and Z And as you start getting older and accumulate more experiences, i came to find out I thought there's not a lot of difference like in a firefighter's capability of doing their job, between being able to bench press 250 pounds and 500 pounds.
• 9:27
  Nick Brunacini: You do about the same thing, so one of them's just you're just getting stronger to get stronger.
• 9:32
  Nick Brunacini: In fact, i saw a thing they were talking about a quarterback, the Eagles quarterback, and how much he could squat.
• 9:38
  Nick Brunacini: It was during a football game and Troy Eggman's commentator, who was the Cowboys Hall of Fame quarterback, and he's like why is he do that?
• 9:47
  Nick Brunacini: He's thinking why he's a quarterback.
• 9:50
  Nick Brunacini: And then, like, five plays later, this guy runs through 11 people and scores it.
• 9:54
  Nick Brunacini: That's why he does it.
• 9:55
  Nick Brunacini: He's collecting brain trauma right now.
• 9:58
  Nick Brunacini: That's what it's happening to him.
• 10:01
  Nick Brunacini: So I think That's the other thing is, when you retire, is you kind of think, okay, i'm retired and now I want to be as healthy as I can as long as I can?
• 10:10
  Nick Brunacini: So that was the other piece of it.
• 10:12
  Nick Brunacini: as I retired I thought, well, i'm not in the greatest shape of the world, so maybe I can work on that.
• 10:17
  Nick Brunacini: So part of the yoga thing is that's got me into fitness again, and so I think that's part of it is you do a little something physical every day to get your blood going and moving And I've noticed I feel a lot healthier now because of that.
• 10:31
  Nick Brunacini: I've blighter, i got my joints don't ache as much, and I think that adds a little more gratitude to your life when you go to bed at night So you sleep a little better.
• 10:40
  Nick Brunacini: You think now you know like life isn't as bullshit as it everybody says it is.
• 10:44
  Nick Brunacini: Well, you turn the TV on and that's what they're screaming at.
• 10:47
  Nick Brunacini: you think now you're You.
• 10:49
  Nick Brunacini: people don't live in the same zip code.
• 10:50
  Terry Garrison: I do, evidently my wife and I for the first time, and probably I Don't know as long as I can remember what's the evening news.
• 10:57
  Terry Garrison: Last night She got home and it's like well, let's watch the evening news NBC or CBS, i don't remember who it was.
• 11:04
  John Vance: Were you surprised that Walter Cronkite was no?
• 11:07
  Terry Garrison: longer And we watched it for about the first 10 Issue, the first 10 minutes for that, the two shootings, that the shooting, the run over the, the girl in the park, they got killed here.
• 11:23
  Terry Garrison: And it's like I looked at.
• 11:26
  Terry Garrison: I said, man, i'm tapping out on the news, i'm going back to Andy Griffith on the on the me TV channel.
• 11:32
  Terry Garrison: I can't.
• 11:32
  Terry Garrison: It was stressful just watching as I look over at it.
• 11:35
  Terry Garrison: Chief is, i need to Use some yoga, right there exactly, yeah, yeah, you could watch basketball instead.
• 11:43
  Nick Brunacini: There's none of that.
• 11:46
  John Vance: My favorite thing was Charles Caroll.
• 11:48
  John Vance: I mean, you want to talk?
• 11:49
  Terry Garrison: about it and Oh, sunday morning having coffee.
• 11:52
  John Vance: It's we're having the best pie in America.
• 11:55
  John Vance: We are in Des Plaines, Illinois.
• 11:59
  John Vance: Yeah, I was like that this is life.
• 12:01
  John Vance: This is what we should be doing.
• 12:03
  John Vance: But to get back to the question about the IC effectiveness, because I Used to watch some of the ICs that I really admired and they had a routine they'd go through and they were calm, good ICs, but like one of them would always put a dip in I knew when that always smoked.
• 12:19
  John Vance: But you know, i tried to emulate.
• 12:21
  John Vance: I still do like if I'm going to a call I'll pop in a piece of gum because it just calms me down.
• 12:27
  John Vance: I mean it just like I'm enjoying the piece of gum now And I'm not really thinking about the call until I get there.
• 12:32
  John Vance: But what other techniques would you say would Really help an incident commander get into the brain space they need to be in, whether it's before a shift or even on the way to that?
• 12:43
  Terry Garrison: Well, you know, one thing that is good for new incident commanders is to is to call your dispatcher and get your, get your tape.
• 12:52
  Terry Garrison: How did I sound right?
• 12:53
  Terry Garrison: did I sound like I had a?
• 12:55
  Terry Garrison: Because Bruno talks about cool command and we're going to get into that later too, with our leadership, maybe, and tie that to that.
• 13:01
  Terry Garrison: But You know, listen to how you sound.
• 13:05
  Terry Garrison: Do you sound like you have a high anxiety?
• 13:07
  Terry Garrison: You got to identify the problem, right, is it?
• 13:10
  Terry Garrison: do you get excited at certain points?
• 13:12
  Terry Garrison: because everybody knows when the incident commander Sounds excited, then everybody else kind of gets revved up.
• 13:18
  Terry Garrison: For me, it was always that the two things that I kind of think of every day is, well, i think a three of them, but the two that apply here is patience and being the present.
• 13:28
  Terry Garrison: Right, because I'm really an impatient person, it's I'm always.
• 13:33
  Terry Garrison: Even when someone's talking to me, it's like, well, i'm getting ready to, okay, i got to walk this way, i got to go do this, i got to think about the next moment.
• 13:40
  Terry Garrison: And then being a present, where you're at man, just trying to, without being too cosmic, just trying to enjoy the space that you're, that you're in, right there, and I think in it for an incident commander.
• 13:50
  Terry Garrison: That's really important too is to not get too frustrated with The position you're in, but just kind of be present where you're at.
• 14:01
  Terry Garrison: So those are kind of my.
• 14:02
  Terry Garrison: I don't know if that answered the question, but that's the two things that I think about that that are my Achilles heels is I don't get too excited about things just because I'm on my third marriage.
• 14:13
  Terry Garrison: I mean, what are they gonna?
• 14:14
  John Vance: I feel like.
• 14:15
  Terry Garrison: Sam Kanna say remember him.
• 14:17
  John Vance: Yeah, that guy beautiful, but it's like what?
• 14:19
  Terry Garrison: are you gonna do?
• 14:20
  Terry Garrison: they gonna send me to hell.
• 14:22
  Terry Garrison: I'm gonna be.
• 14:22
  Terry Garrison: I'll be a greeter in hell right.
• 14:24
  Terry Garrison: I'm not afraid of anything.
• 14:25
  Terry Garrison: I'm married 29 years, so I'm doing okay.
• 14:29
  Terry Garrison: But I I really believe that You got to kind of identify your weaknesses, so, and sometimes the weakness in this is just not taking the time to identify that, hey, i need to take time out.
• 14:43
  Terry Garrison: So you know some, some people, it's, it's there, they take long walks or they ride mountain bikes Or they do something you got.
• 14:50
  Nick Brunacini: That's kind of hard to do.
• 14:51
  Nick Brunacini: Before you take them in, though.
• 14:53
  Terry Garrison: No, i'm going back to the mindfulness, the prep.
• 14:55
  Terry Garrison: Yeah, just where do you go?
• 14:57
  Nick Brunacini: So then, when you get here, maybe you got a better center now I would notice that, like Especially when I was an officer, because you're looking through the windshield and you're not looking at the motor or the hose beds or anything else so you can see what's happening and you'd be responding, and It looked like World War two you were going to and it could kind of jack you up a little bit, especially working on a ladder, because you had so Many options for what you were going to do.
• 15:25
  Nick Brunacini: And you got there, and so I find myself starting to get okay, okay and I learned, is you just kind of close your eyes?
• 15:35
  Nick Brunacini: and you took three really Subsequently deeper breaths and I would do that and I would look up and it could be as nasty as it wanted to, and I thought, you know, i didn't like it.
• 15:47
  Nick Brunacini: I showed up to help.
• 15:48
  Nick Brunacini: So it put me what it did.
• 15:51
  Nick Brunacini: Is it forced me to Take a step back, kind of like you said, and figure out Okay, what are we going to actually do?
• 15:58
  Nick Brunacini: So, and that was that.
• 16:00
  Nick Brunacini: Was this like a task-level Supervisor?
• 16:02
  Nick Brunacini: that was, i wasn't taking command, i was going to work.
• 16:05
  Nick Brunacini: When I became a BC, i would use the same things as I thought, okay, i got a blah, blah, blah and I don't know.
• 16:12
  Nick Brunacini: I just there was something about being an incident commander That was just so much better and easier than being a company officer, and I don't know, i just liked it more.
• 16:25
  Nick Brunacini: Yeah so I could.
• 16:26
  Nick Brunacini: I enjoyed pulling up to the scene of all this chaos and looking at it And thinking these two or three things are going to solve this whole problem, and then calmly telling people to do those two or three things and then watching everything get better.
• 16:39
  Nick Brunacini: So and you know, and that would Reinforce itself over and over again.
• 16:43
  Nick Brunacini: So each subsequent incident, it was just you just kept building on the last.
• 16:48
  Nick Brunacini: And then I mean and this kind of starts to go into the next question About seniority that Vance hasn't asked yet, but see, i Is it was the execution of doing the work.
• 17:00
  Nick Brunacini: And then I figured out on the task level, the work is very physical and we're gonna go and we're gonna.
• 17:05
  Nick Brunacini: We're fighters.
• 17:06
  Nick Brunacini: That's really what we are.
• 17:07
  Nick Brunacini: We're going into a hostile place and we're gonna make the hostility go away.
• 17:10
  Nick Brunacini: Or behave is what the deal is.
• 17:12
  Nick Brunacini: If we can, and sometimes we overestimate our ability to tame a force of nature like fire, because it it'll burn you to death right, kind of like the purple light in the sky.
• 17:24
  Nick Brunacini: Oh, once it lights up, you're done, you're a speck.
• 17:29
  Terry Garrison: So I think that was kind of the thing For being yeah so, and yeah, just you talked about a little bit, is that you know, action feels good, right So?
• 17:38
  Nick Brunacini: you're a firefighter.
• 17:39
  Terry Garrison: You go there, you got it.
• 17:40
  Terry Garrison: You're, you're doing something that actually feels good.
• 17:43
  Terry Garrison: Yeah, the first couple times you're an incident commander and you're sitting there and maybe you're, maybe you know where you want to sign companies and they haven't arrived yet and You're waiting for that response to come and you're sitting there.
• 17:57
  Terry Garrison: You could get your.
• 17:57
  Terry Garrison: You get a little anxious with that, you do.
• 18:00
  Terry Garrison: You got to actually physically calm yourself down.
• 18:03
  Terry Garrison: Now It's nice in our system We had a partner and I had a great partner, sid Norwood, who would calm me down.
• 18:08
  Terry Garrison: I mean, he just had that kind of common effect because I don't know.
• 18:12
  Terry Garrison: You just one of those guys that we're gonna be okay, terry, we're gonna be okay, and And you think about your plan, your next move and once you, and then you, you understand it.
• 18:22
  Terry Garrison: That's your action.
• 18:23
  Terry Garrison: Like you said, you would identify two or three things that we're gonna put this fire out.
• 18:27
  Terry Garrison: So now you have your action ready to go.
• 18:30
  Terry Garrison: Your action may not be, you know, climbing a ladder, but your action is gonna sign these companies to help solve this problem.
• 18:38
  Terry Garrison: Brunisini used to say something kind of interesting.
• 18:40
  Terry Garrison: He said if the fire makes you crazy, face the other direction Mm-hmm.
• 18:45
  Nick Brunacini: No one here used to say that well, it's too bad It does, because that's kind of why they called us.
• 18:50
  Terry Garrison: Yeah, yeah, make you crazy, right?
• 18:55
  Terry Garrison: Mm-hmm.
• 18:56
  Terry Garrison: What are you thinking, john?
• 18:58
  John Vance: Well, there's, i think there's two levels of stuff.
• 19:01
  John Vance: So I was thinking about, you know, on the way, when that call comes through, and I agree with that and a lot of it I've heard you guys talk about over the years.
• 19:09
  John Vance: So I think about what Nick says.
• 19:11
  John Vance: You know, i didn't start this, i'm just here to fix it and they're counting on me to be calm and stuff, and generally I am.
• 19:17
  John Vance: The only time I really feel jacked up as an icy is when it's stuff I don't do on a normal basis.
• 19:23
  John Vance: So like a technical rescue and we've got to get four Construction workers out of a ditch that are trying to dig their buddy out, and those are the things that kind of ramp me up.
• 19:32
  John Vance: A Structure fire I like going to structure fires.
• 19:35
  John Vance: I mean that's one of my wife always says you know What's a good fire?
• 19:39
  John Vance: because we're always talking about well, that was a good fire.
• 19:41
  John Vance: It's like, is there a good fire?
• 19:42
  John Vance: No, there really isn't.
• 19:43
  John Vance: But you know, for us there is, when it goes well and everybody's safe and you can stop property loss.
• 19:50
  John Vance: But I think that the prep for that, the going into it, there's just a couple of things I do.
• 19:54
  John Vance: Number one You got to enjoy life and be mindful about that and be grateful for what you have.
• 20:00
  John Vance: I do sensory deprivation.
• 20:02
  John Vance: So I don't know if you've ever been to one of the since and I can feel my body get tense a lot of times And if I, if I get to that point, it's about a hundred bucks for an hour and you go into a tank And you float and all the lights are off and it's an hour of meditation and I end up falling asleep.
• 20:17
  John Vance: I mean, you, you're meditating so deeply and when you really do it and can get everything off your mind, you will go to sleep and you, i wake up, are you?
• 20:25
  John Vance: floating in like water, salt water.
• 20:27
  Nick Brunacini: Yeah, okay, salt water.
• 20:29
  Nick Brunacini: How deep is it?
• 20:30
  John Vance: It's probably about a foot or less.
• 20:32
  John Vance: Yeah, you don't.
• 20:33
  John Vance: you don't touch anything, you don't touch bottom.
• 20:35
  John Vance: So just to spend you the whole time.
• 20:37
  Nick Brunacini: Yeah.
• 20:37
  John Vance: And there's a thing you put around your neck so your ears don't go underwater.
• 20:40
  Nick Brunacini: But you just relax, you're lying, you go away.
• 20:43
  John Vance: You're back in in utero.
• 20:45
  Nick Brunacini: I mean, that's what it is.
• 20:45
  Nick Brunacini: Do you ever poop in the amniotic?
• 20:48
  John Vance: fluid No, no, no, no, no, no, no no no, no plugs, No, no, like emissions of any kind, never, never.
• 20:57
  Terry Garrison: Hey, not that I'll talk about.
• 20:59
  Terry Garrison: Yes, you, if you poop when you did yoga, hey, that's not fair, you broke wind.
• 21:03
  Terry Garrison: Man yoga.
• 21:04
  Terry Garrison: You fart like a son of a bitch because you are stretching some Yeah.
• 21:10
  John Vance: I've done yoga too And I was.
• 21:12
  John Vance: I was here at a very nice health club in Scottsdale and it's a chain in their lifetime.
• 21:17
  John Vance: They're by me and they're they're here And I walked in and usually I'm with, like the moms and some other dads, and it was the beautiful people of Arizona.
• 21:25
  John Vance: Oh wow, I turned around and walked out because they don't want to.
• 21:28
  John Vance: They don't want me in there.
• 21:29
  John Vance: But, I think I think that you know having those kind of things that you do that just chill you out, and that you know I'm not I'm not much into like getting massages or doing spa type of things, but that's a nice alone time to really get you centered And I totally recommend it If you have a chance to do sensory deprivation or a float tank or a float spot.
• 21:48
  John Vance: I do.
• 21:49
  Terry Garrison: I do some different.
• 21:51
  Terry Garrison: I do adoration right.
• 21:52
  Terry Garrison: So, being a Catholic, i go every Wednesday morning at four o'clock and I sit in adoration for an hour.
• 21:58
  Terry Garrison: And that's kind of the same thing, where you just sit there quietly for about an hour and think about things.
• 22:03
  Terry Garrison: But I was thinking back to this, this I see.
• 22:05
  Terry Garrison: So one of the things that because Nick hit it, you know we got to help this guy out is a pencil and a piece of, and your your worksheet or a piece of paper and writing some things down.
• 22:17
  Terry Garrison: When you're waiting, when you feel yourself get anxious, and because what makes you anxious is that it does it with me in meetings also is somebody's talking, and this is part of what I need to do is if I want to jump in and and and say what I got to say, and instead I just write it down, i go OK, i'm not going to forget that.
• 22:37
  Terry Garrison: Now We're down.
• 22:38
  Terry Garrison: You know, did you poop or whatever that, whatever that thought was going to be, and that's a good, that's a good point.
• 22:46
  Terry Garrison: That might be something that would help a young IC is to just have something where you can make sure, because what's making an IC agitated?
• 22:54
  Terry Garrison: or the fire itself, but really the fact that they want to do a really good job and they don't want to miss something.
• 23:01
  Terry Garrison: They obviously don't want people to get hurt and that's part of it.
• 23:04
  Terry Garrison: If somebody does get hurt, certainly don't want it to be their fault.
• 23:07
  Terry Garrison: So just kind of some skills that make you a better IC.
• 23:10
  Terry Garrison: So the better you become, the more comfortable you're going to feel in that position.
• 23:15
  Terry Garrison: I don't know.
• 23:17
  Nick Brunacini: You know there were certain triggers that would kind of set me on edges, and I see in, most of it had to do with substandard task level performance, so it did look like there were a few times you would like well, what the hell are they doing?
• 23:35
  Nick Brunacini: So there's nothing you can really do about that as it's going on, other than just kind of control yourself, i guess.
• 23:42
  Nick Brunacini: And then what?
• 23:42
  Nick Brunacini: whatever it is that's not going the way it should is figuring out how to do it.
• 23:47
  Nick Brunacini: It's not going the way it should is figuring out how to correct that.
• 23:51
  Nick Brunacini: So, but as an IC, that's not your job is to tell somebody how to execute a task level evolution, right, i mean that we don't do use the tactical channel for that.
• 24:03
  Nick Brunacini: So, so, really, i think, other than that, most of it, though, was like, when you got there, like if the fire is starting to jack you up because it's just burning and destroying stuff, is that thing getting me going?
• 24:16
  Nick Brunacini: so much is because, during, that thing is really that's like.
• 24:19
  Nick Brunacini: Don't look at it If it makes you crazy.
• 24:21
  Nick Brunacini: You got to figure out OK, i need to cut it off here and here, and then do this and that, and here's kind of the timing and the sequence of how that looks like.
• 24:28
  Nick Brunacini: So you're, i didn't get antsy because I'm sitting there in an action plan and thinking, ok, we've got to do this, this and this, and so then his company starts staging and you start assigning them.
• 24:39
  Nick Brunacini: Then it almost turned into a game.
• 24:41
  Nick Brunacini: To be honest with you, i enjoyed that part of it.
• 24:43
  Nick Brunacini: It was almost, and you're not saying it's a chess game, but it's like no, i kind of looked at it that way and it went a lot better when I could disassociate my ego and self and just stand back and clinically say this, this and this has to happen here.
• 24:58
  Nick Brunacini: So that's what I spent a lot of my time doing in the front end of it.
• 25:02
  Nick Brunacini: And then once our company starts staging the other good piece of this for us at least, and you said it we had a partner, but we didn't get there first, as we got there second, third, fourth, fifth, so you didn't have a lot of time to obsess because you were processing the information ahead of time.
• 25:20
  Nick Brunacini: So if you're responding to the thing as a BC and you're waiting for Engine 13 to clear alarm, because they should be on the scene right now, so I'm starting to do the delivery thing, ok, you should be there.
• 25:30
  Nick Brunacini: And your initial report you're going to tell us what the hell's burning, and so boom, boom, boom.
• 25:34
  Nick Brunacini: And then they start painting a picture.
• 25:36
  Nick Brunacini: You're like, oh, this is.
• 25:37
  Nick Brunacini: I'm probably not going to even take command when I get there.
• 25:39
  Nick Brunacini: They got a small house with a room and contents fire I need to turn it on or a car in the driveway.
• 25:45
  Nick Brunacini: That's why it looks as big as it does, whatever that is.
• 25:48
  Nick Brunacini: So once you get there and you think, ok, this is what we got.
• 25:51
  Nick Brunacini: So there's a lot of stuff like, before you actually show up to the scene, that you're processing is the IC, so it doesn't give you a lot of time to ring your hands and clutch your pearls and think about, oh my God, look what, look at what this horrible fire is doing to such an innocent community And you think, ok, this is.
• 26:12
  Terry Garrison: You know the other thing?
• 26:13
  Terry Garrison: you made me think of that because people will make you crazy.
• 26:16
  Terry Garrison: So if you're making yourself crazy, it may have some to do with confidence level and competence level, and you can always train and be better and listen to more after action reports go on.
• 26:28
  Terry Garrison: Now I learned more about your role as an incident commander And then the other things that make you crazy is other people right?
• 26:35
  Terry Garrison: So the ones on the incident ground, like you said, that aren't on the fire ground, that aren't doing what you expect them to do, and you don't have a lot of control over that.
• 26:44
  Terry Garrison: But you've got to be a little patient.
• 26:45
  Terry Garrison: Maybe you've got to send a company in, or not, jim probably whatever division boss, but the third one that will make you crazy.
• 26:52
  Terry Garrison: And if you use this you know the blue card system, it's the people around you.
• 26:56
  Terry Garrison: You know where I was going.
• 26:57
  Terry Garrison: It's the people that if you don't make that command post, you're suburban or wherever.
• 27:03
  Terry Garrison: You're locked in there.
• 27:04
  Terry Garrison: If you don't control that, that could get you wound up really fast.
• 27:09
  Terry Garrison: Somebody put in their head in the window, some other chief officer asking a silly ask question, not having the support that you need, like we had a partner That'll jack you up So you can control that.
• 27:21
  Terry Garrison: And you really need to and say, hey, right now, no, i'm doing it And we were guilty of that too.
• 27:28
  Terry Garrison: I mean, there was times in our career we get in the back seat and the command post but I see Nick and he's like, hey, how they going?
• 27:35
  Terry Garrison: man?
• 27:35
  Terry Garrison: And the guy would turn around and give us a look.
• 27:37
  Terry Garrison: It's like, oh sorry.
• 27:39
  Nick Brunacini: I figured out after about three or four times I'm getting the back of the car anymore.
• 27:42
  John Vance: That's what I'm doing.
• 27:43
  Nick Brunacini: I'm not doing it.
• 27:44
  Nick Brunacini: So that was because.
• 27:46
  Nick Brunacini: Because why are you back there?
• 27:48
  Terry Garrison: You can hear everything.
• 27:49
  Nick Brunacini: Okay, you're the shift commander, You have to be a senior advisor?
• 27:51
  Nick Brunacini: Yeah well, i don't have to be in the back seat with the goddamn command post.
• 27:54
  Nick Brunacini: I can be outside at the driver's door and, for something they need to know, i knock on the window, tell them hey, blah, blah, blah, yeah.
• 28:00
  Nick Brunacini: It's pretty simple, i think.
• 28:03
  Nick Brunacini: Really at the core, though, what set for me mindfulness was competence.
• 28:08
  Nick Brunacini: So if you show up and you do what's expected of you, then that is really kind of what controls your anxiety more than anything else Is.
• 28:18
  Nick Brunacini: This is what I was trained to do.
• 28:19
  Nick Brunacini: I showed up and I had this and I applied those skills to this and it went well.
• 28:24
  Nick Brunacini: Whether it's a task level thing or you're a strategic IC, you get assigned as a tactical level boss.
• 28:29
  Nick Brunacini: It is.
• 28:30
  Nick Brunacini: So again, i'm going back to the work, as we all are part of this organization because we're hired here and get paid to do this work, so that becomes the connecting force.
• 28:41
  Nick Brunacini: Well, the better you are at that work and the more you understand it and our capabilities and limitations, that kind of settles your ass down.
• 28:51
  Nick Brunacini: I mean, people in my fire department is you're going through the IC thing and they say, okay, the one thing socially that they're going to go crazy is when you change the strategy from offensive to defensive, because that's like the failure, that we couldn't put it out this way, and you know they're then gnashing of teeth and we're not worthy In actual application.
• 29:15
  Nick Brunacini: Every time I got there as the IC and changed the strategy I had eight people come up and thank me for that because they wouldn't do it themselves, because it was for whatever reason.
• 29:24
  Nick Brunacini: But and so you learn very quickly oh, that's all a bunch of bullshit too that we've all believed.
• 29:30
  Nick Brunacini: So maybe if we just do the actual capabilities that we have and stick with that and be really good at it, then that becomes kind of the way forward.
• 29:40
  Terry Garrison: And you know as far as the mindfulness of that, because you know everybody feel not everybody, but most of us feel after we run an incident afterwards, like how'd I do?
• 29:50
  Terry Garrison: And that could start eating that chill, go back to the station or whatever, But have those after action reviews, Review the incident right there And you said it on our last podcast I think, but we used to do a after action for just the command team.
• 30:04
  Terry Garrison: But, there's a good way to do that too.
• 30:06
  Terry Garrison: Just get the company officers and the IC and say okay, guys, what can I do better?
• 30:12
  Terry Garrison: That'll help you feel better about the next one, right?
• 30:15
  Terry Garrison: And if somebody says hey, i didn't really like what you you kept, you didn't give us enough time, you gave us an assignment and then you started asking us how we went and got off the truck.
• 30:23
  Terry Garrison: Yeah, so you need to do better, whatever it is.
• 30:25
  John Vance: You can learn from that right, Build competence and then you Yeah, i think that you both brought up great points and I hopefully we helped Dave out a lot.
• 30:37
  John Vance: Dave will be getting an OGIC t-shirt from B-Shifter B-Shifter, so thanks for that question, dave.
• 30:45
  Terry Garrison: We should wear one in here with that bag.
• 30:47
  John Vance: Yeah, oh, i've got one on.
• 30:49
  Nick Brunacini: Oh, you got one on.
• 30:49
  Nick Brunacini: You should have seen it in color baby.
• 30:51
  Terry Garrison: Yeah, it's good on you.
• 30:55
  John Vance: You get a free bowl of soup with that.
• 30:57
  Nick Brunacini: Color with a U.
• 30:57
  Nick Brunacini: Exactly, we are all wearing B-Shifter clothing.
• 31:00
  Nick Brunacini: We're a fashion house.
• 31:01
  Nick Brunacini: Yeah, it's all about the merch.
• 31:04
  Nick Brunacini: Yeah, we're a fashion house in a college.
• 31:06
  Terry Garrison: Yeah, We're flying our color job.
• 31:09
  Terry Garrison: How much of.
• 31:10
  John Vance: B-Shifter can you see?
• 31:12
  Nick Brunacini: Oh, this is so much fun, All right.
• 31:13
  John Vance: Next question Advice on how to manage those that may have more experience than yourself.
• 31:20
  John Vance: I'm a fairly new officer and sometimes my crew is composed of members who have significantly more experience than myself.
• 31:28
  John Vance: How do I maintain my own personal leadership to the crew while simultaneously helping them grow?
• 31:34
  John Vance: I'm aware my ego has something to do with this, but I still want to ask to see if there was any input slash advice that you have for me.
• 31:43
  John Vance: Thanks, That is GD.
• 31:46
  John Vance: This is initials.
• 31:47
  Terry Garrison: GD.
• 31:47
  Terry Garrison: Well, congratulations on promoting through the system.
• 31:52
  Terry Garrison: Maybe you're younger, maybe you were, i don't know.
• 31:55
  Terry Garrison: You applied for the positions and you got the positions right.
• 31:59
  Terry Garrison: But it's kind of interesting because a small part of the job that fired whether you're a fire captain or a chief officer a small part of what you do is really autocratic.
• 32:11
  Terry Garrison: Right, it's the hazard zone that's autocratic, but everything else I mean you have time to get input from people and to provide feedback and get people's opinions, and you don't want somebody who's government's more seniority to be a bully actually, and you shouldn't allow that.
• 32:29
  Terry Garrison: But it's nice to get input from people as a leader, right?
• 32:33
  Terry Garrison: So I think that probably throughout the entire fire service, there's people out there that are younger, that are supervised of people older, right?
• 32:45
  Terry Garrison: People with more experience.
• 32:46
  Terry Garrison: That's just kind of the way the job works.
• 32:50
  Terry Garrison: So some of the things you could do is just, first of all, if you have an ego and you can feel that ego, don't let that ego go because don't let it play out.
• 33:04
  Terry Garrison: I should say You should let it go but not let it play out, because once you throw down that on the boss card, you're screwed.
• 33:12
  Terry Garrison: Right, mike, you're smiling at that one.
• 33:14
  Terry Garrison: Yeah, once you go there, i'm the captain.
• 33:18
  Terry Garrison: It doesn't matter how old I am, i'm the supervisor, i'm your BC.
• 33:21
  Terry Garrison: Oh my God, if you've got a state your title, wherever you are in the organization, i'm the fire chief, buddy.
• 33:28
  Terry Garrison: Yeah, i think we all know that.
• 33:30
  Terry Garrison: It says it on your shirt, asshole.
• 33:32
  John Vance: I used to have a chief that said right here, we follow the golden rule, he with the gold rules, and he used to call us collar brass, pick and choose.
• 33:43
  John Vance: I don't have to do the same work you idiots have to do.
• 33:47
  Terry Garrison: You know he was one of those guys.
• 33:48
  John Vance: Sounds wonderful, yeah it's like that's not.
• 33:49
  John Vance: I'm more of the boss that I am now because of all the bad bosses I've ever had So and I've been a supervisor since I was 19 years old.
• 33:58
  John Vance: in one way or another, i've been used to having people who are older than me but you guys had probably older than you, like war veterans and people who had pretty entrenched beliefs and ways of doing business.
• 34:14
  John Vance: So how did you deal with that during your career?
• 34:19
  Terry Garrison: I'm a chief No.
• 34:22
  Nick Brunacini: I work for old people, i mean, but I was the subordinate to them, so that was interesting And most of them were, i mean.
• 34:33
  Nick Brunacini: I think the key to that whole question is the work Is that's we're all there to do the work.
• 34:39
  Nick Brunacini: So if you're the supervisor of that crew, it's your job to make sure the work gets done.
• 34:43
  Nick Brunacini: It's there, in fact, you're a working boss, so you're doing that work with them.
• 34:50
  Nick Brunacini: You're a member of the working crew, so in that way you kind of lead by example.
• 34:56
  Terry Garrison: Yeah.
• 34:57
  Nick Brunacini: So the older members see that, oh, he's just one of us and this is what we're all here doing and this is what he's making us do our job.
• 35:08
  Nick Brunacini: It's my experience that we have, where I was, the people that I was hanging out with had respect for those bosses That would show up and say this is what our job is, this is what we're doing, and not the ones that showed up and said, oh, no, no, no, this is our job, and I want the truck cleaned in this fashion as follows because this is the way we do it on C group.
• 35:29
  Nick Brunacini: No, the truck will be just as clean on B group and we'll clean it as we clean it.
• 35:33
  Nick Brunacini: So that was first and foremost.
• 35:36
  Nick Brunacini: In fact, it was to the point that if you had, like, a new officer who just wanted to be everybody's friend, we really didn't have much time or use for those people.
• 35:47
  Nick Brunacini: It would act as such.
• 35:50
  Nick Brunacini: So, and the fire service at least this is the way it was with us is people would end up with who they wanted to work with Is nobody worked at stations they didn't want to be at It took a while after.
• 36:05
  Nick Brunacini: Is, our assignment procedures were all based on seniority.
• 36:08
  Nick Brunacini: There was nothing else.
• 36:09
  Nick Brunacini: If you had the senior letter for a spot, you got the spot, if you had all the qualifications required of that spot, so you would assemble crews that went in and some of them had worked together for 20 years I mean a very long time so you were coming into that kind of a deal.
• 36:26
  Nick Brunacini: So that could be a challenge, especially if you were going into those places.
• 36:30
  Nick Brunacini: Is an act, an acting officer, so they're captains off one day and they you fill in.
• 36:36
  Terry Garrison: Are you done?
• 36:37
  Terry Garrison: see, i go ahead.
• 36:38
  Nick Brunacini: No, go ahead, i was just there to get ready to jump into a different boat, all together.
• 36:41
  Terry Garrison: No, i'm just thinking maturity, right, so?
• 36:44
  Terry Garrison: so it doesn't really have to do with link on the job or time on the job or Mm-hmm, your age, or anything.
• 36:52
  Terry Garrison: But the maturity piece so I remember you made me think about it is that I was a Acting captain and I roved into a station where they had a pretty senior captain and I.
• 37:03
  Terry Garrison: There's a couple guys in a station.
• 37:05
  Terry Garrison: If I told you their names, you would know who they are.
• 37:07
  Terry Garrison: There are a couple of caustic guys and So I come in and I'm the acting captain and I were not even promoted yet And they're like, oh, gerson, all right, here we go.
• 37:18
  Terry Garrison: There was a female there and these two caustic guys And they go okay, first thing is, is we're gonna watch these movies tonight?
• 37:25
  Terry Garrison: Said no, we're not gonna watch those movies.
• 37:28
  Terry Garrison: No, the other, the other captain, he lets us watch these movies for these movies.
• 37:32
  Terry Garrison: Nobody was dressed in these movies.
• 37:34
  Terry Garrison: And it's like, no, we're not gonna watch those.
• 37:37
  Terry Garrison: Say come on, gerson.
• 37:38
  Terry Garrison: And I said no, we're not gonna watch the movie, watch them next you if he comes back, next you if you guys watch them, next you.
• 37:45
  Terry Garrison: So we didn't want the movie, so I got to hurt their feelings and then We go on a call and they keep screwing with each other.
• 37:52
  Terry Garrison: And I'm watching this like I didn't say anything, i'm just watching them.
• 37:54
  Terry Garrison: They just keep poking at each other and poking at each other.
• 37:57
  Terry Garrison: So we get a call.
• 37:59
  Terry Garrison: It was down station six.
• 38:00
  Terry Garrison: So we get a call, like got on three in the morning.
• 38:03
  Terry Garrison: It was the third call we had and on the last call the guy got up a little bit slower than the other guy.
• 38:09
  Terry Garrison: Well, this time on his way by he punched him to wake him up.
• 38:12
  Terry Garrison: So we go on this call and I I feel the tension is like okay, what's going on there?
• 38:18
  Terry Garrison: EMS call down there is actually worthwhile call.
• 38:21
  Terry Garrison: We go back to the station and I could feel the tension and I thought Should I do anything now?
• 38:27
  Terry Garrison: I'm not gonna do anything.
• 38:28
  Terry Garrison: So I go to my room and I hear And it's a fight.
• 38:32
  Terry Garrison: I mean, you know what a fight sounds like when it's in the next room and I go out and these guys are going at each other And I lost.
• 38:39
  Terry Garrison: I said neither wonders touch anybody.
• 38:41
  Terry Garrison: And they look at me and they both stop and They they had been building up to this fist fight and I said you guys don't talk to each other the rest of shifts.
• 38:51
  Terry Garrison: Shut the hell up, don't talk to me, don't do anything.
• 38:55
  Terry Garrison: Well, in the morning when I left, both those guys individually Came out to me and said hey, we're really sorry We put you in that position.
• 39:03
  Terry Garrison: You know we shouldn't have done, and they were both very sincerely apologetic about it and I thought, you know I should have been More consistent with.
• 39:12
  Terry Garrison: So I started off at the shift.
• 39:14
  Terry Garrison: I was, i had, i showed maturity and said we're not gonna do this.
• 39:17
  Terry Garrison: But I really kind of got a sense something was happening.
• 39:20
  Terry Garrison: I didn't.
• 39:21
  Terry Garrison: I didn't Tell them, hey, take it easy, guys, or say anything to them.
• 39:26
  Terry Garrison: So I think you know for the maturity factor and then be consistent.
• 39:31
  Terry Garrison: Have you read supervisors and this is one of the problems I see kind of with with younger supervisors are still trying to figure out their personality traits as a leader.
• 39:41
  Terry Garrison: So they come in and they're almost like trying different things and a real inconsistent kind of way, and one day They're the buddies, on the next day to the boss, and then there's a buddy And you got to pick which, what you're gonna be, and you got to be consistent as a Supervisor and now you're smiling at that, but Consistency is a key right the question is you're younger, everybody's older.
• 40:04
  Nick Brunacini: Yeah what I promoted the company officer.
• 40:06
  Nick Brunacini: I was young, i was like 27, 28 years old And seven, eight years on a fire department of a captain, because that's when you started the academy.
• 40:16
  Nick Brunacini: You wanted to graduate as a captain, right, i want to be a captain, paramedic.
• 40:19
  Nick Brunacini: That's the, that's the swashbuckler.
• 40:21
  Nick Brunacini: So, anyway, we promote, we're going through, and that the fire department puts you through all these like Leadership and captain's classes.
• 40:31
  Nick Brunacini: This is what we expect of you.
• 40:33
  Nick Brunacini: Blah, blah, blah.
• 40:33
  Nick Brunacini: And I remember we're going through the personnel piece of it and they're the assistant chief of personnel came in and said, all right, the way this fire department's organized, the way we hire people said you know, you're gonna be brand new captains.
• 40:43
  Nick Brunacini: And they say there's about a 95% chance You'll never have to write paper on anybody during your whole career because the house smooth and blue, blue, blue.
• 40:52
  Nick Brunacini: That was the biggest load of bullshit I was ever told, and in any part of my career, because we started Brovin as acting captains in the first place I went is the captain left and you would know this individual because the recruit firefighter He had was another fireman son and this recruit firemen should not have been a fireman ever.
• 41:14
  Nick Brunacini: They should not have got through the academy, not suited for this job in any way whatsoever.
• 41:20
  Nick Brunacini: Well, this, the captain at that truck couldn't be put in the position where he would have to do any discipline With his buddy son.
• 41:28
  Nick Brunacini: So he just takes a month off and it gives the problem.
• 41:31
  Nick Brunacini: So I rove in and they're like, and he should.
• 41:34
  Nick Brunacini: That son of a bitch showed up My first shift there to tell me that guy who told you're not gonna have to write paper.
• 41:41
  Nick Brunacini: No, no, no.
• 41:41
  Nick Brunacini: The captain.
• 41:42
  Nick Brunacini: Who would you tell me okay, i'm not gonna fire, kill good kid, you are so anyway.
• 41:49
  Terry Garrison: So the dad, the supervisor, who should have been there that Month, showed up to tell you what to do while you were there, because here's two chickens.
• 41:59
  Nick Brunacini: Yeah, it did well, It's Exactly but one of the hobo brothers was there and it was fun to watch as I just sat in the chair and thought, watch these two go off and fight, so anyway.
• 42:12
  Nick Brunacini: So that was my.
• 42:13
  Nick Brunacini: So I have a different view of this captain.
• 42:15
  Nick Brunacini: Then now that I have to fill in and do his job because he refuses to do it.
• 42:19
  Nick Brunacini: So then after that happens is then we ended up at a station that had just had some Some racial personnel issues going on that were kind of the big deal at the time.
• 42:29
  Nick Brunacini: Well, both of those captains got booted from the station for it and they put in two roving, the two newest.
• 42:35
  Nick Brunacini: We weren't even captains yet.
• 42:37
  Nick Brunacini: They hadn't made us and I said you guys Going on, i Should have gone to law school.
• 42:43
  Nick Brunacini: This is not what you said it was gonna be.
• 42:46
  Nick Brunacini: So I Very quickly learned.
• 42:49
  Nick Brunacini: I don't really care how old you are or what you think or what your last name is, none of that matters.
• 42:55
  Nick Brunacini: What happens is like when we get a call and we go off and we do what we're supposed to.
• 43:00
  Nick Brunacini: If you'll do that, then we're great.
• 43:02
  Nick Brunacini: That's all that matters right now.
• 43:04
  Nick Brunacini: To me is the rest that I don't care what color you are, what kind of genitals you none of that matters.
• 43:11
  Nick Brunacini: Will you just do your job, please?
• 43:13
  Nick Brunacini: Well, you'll do that, we're good.
• 43:15
  Terry Garrison: It goes back to the work.
• 43:16
  Terry Garrison: You said it right position and function right so that young Supervisor has a position to lead that that crew.
• 43:24
  Terry Garrison: That's his position.
• 43:25
  Terry Garrison: The function is to lead.
• 43:27
  Terry Garrison: He needs to do that in a way that, first of all, don't don't do anything where you're causing the problems, because you're being a young smartass And I don't think this person is doing that.
• 43:38
  Terry Garrison: But you got acknowledged.
• 43:39
  Terry Garrison: You're younger, but you still got to do your job right.
• 43:42
  Terry Garrison: So do it in a respectful kind of way.
• 43:44
  Terry Garrison: Have you ever you know what it's like when somebody disrespect you?
• 43:47
  Terry Garrison: you don't give a shit what their age is.
• 43:50
  Terry Garrison: When somebody disrespects you, you, you, it's, it's irritating.
• 43:55
  Terry Garrison: Whoa, look at that Careful there bands.
• 43:57
  John Vance: We've got so much on this table.
• 43:59
  John Vance: It's crazy.
• 44:01
  Nick Brunacini: It will be fine, we're gonna fix that, oh you didn't know.
• 44:04
  Terry Garrison: But before we got here I kind of moved some of those around.
• 44:07
  John Vance: Oh thanks, It sounds really good.
• 44:09
  Nick Brunacini: You know.
• 44:09
  Nick Brunacini: The other thing that this question asks is okay, i'm a brand.
• 44:12
  Nick Brunacini: This doesn't ever stop, yeah, so he's a brand new captain.
• 44:15
  Nick Brunacini: He's younger than his crew.
• 44:16
  Nick Brunacini: I was a shift commander and I had been one for a while, so I mean it was There was no secret who the shift commander on B shift was.
• 44:25
  Nick Brunacini: I'm the IC on a fire.
• 44:27
  Nick Brunacini: I know what I didn't.
• 44:28
  Nick Brunacini: I got to the fire.
• 44:29
  Nick Brunacini: I should have been the.
• 44:29
  Nick Brunacini: I say I didn't take command, i didn't transfer command because the fire was out.
• 44:32
  Nick Brunacini: And I tell a story all the time during these classes And it's good It's.
• 44:35
  Nick Brunacini: It has to do with the work.
• 44:37
  Nick Brunacini: So this particular captain was the most senior member, maybe the most senior member of the fire department, and He wasn't dressed appropriately and we had just had a class at the CTC on that, and so I went up and asked him about that and he was very offended, like what are you talking about?
• 44:57
  Nick Brunacini: You know, your dad said teach the crew how to do the job and stay the hell out of their way.
• 45:04
  Nick Brunacini: I said, oh, that's not what he meant And that's what you want to do is that maybe you need to not get on the fire truck anymore, yeah, and just stay in the station.
• 45:12
  Nick Brunacini: Would that be okay with you?
• 45:13
  Nick Brunacini: is the second paramedic on the truck?
• 45:15
  Nick Brunacini: How about if the other guys, if the engineer figures I just don't want to do this today.
• 45:19
  Nick Brunacini: So he's like, hey, man, you're being an asshole.
• 45:21
  Nick Brunacini: No, no, no, no, no, no, you're that, you're the good, the son of a bitch that didn't do his job.
• 45:26
  Nick Brunacini: So in the last training session we talked about this and you said this is what it looks like.
• 45:31
  Nick Brunacini: And then you show up to the scene and that ain't what you doing.
• 45:33
  Nick Brunacini: I said so you just lied to all of us, right, yeah, and man, he, you call me a liar.
• 45:39
  Nick Brunacini: No, i know I did.
• 45:40
  Nick Brunacini: Oh, you got a.
• 45:41
  Nick Brunacini: Yeah, punch me tonight, that's gonna go away, come on more on.
• 45:45
  Nick Brunacini: So We kind of had a little squabble over that for a month or two.
• 45:51
  Nick Brunacini: And then it got to the point and Another fire and I pulled up and we're setting the command van up and his company gets there And he comes out and he does a twirl with all of his turnouts on and then throws me double birdies.
• 46:03
  Nick Brunacini: I went over, i hugged him I said thank you, you're dressed appropriately, that's all we wanted.
• 46:09
  Nick Brunacini: And then see that the ego part is after the thing was over.
• 46:12
  Nick Brunacini: I went and purchased ice cream and then took it to the station and said no, this is Yeah, if I'll come up and tell you to do your job and remind you Then later on if you actually do what I asked.
• 46:25
  Nick Brunacini: That I should give some positive reinforcement that way In advance.
• 46:30
  Nick Brunacini: If I, if I were known, i would have emptied all the shit out of the back of my response vehicle and put an isolation tank in it.
• 46:38
  Nick Brunacini: And we would have floated together, me and Booger Dave, and we would have come to some kind of mental Mindlock on what our role in the community was.
• 46:47
  John Vance: I Think that's a good idea.
• 46:50
  John Vance: I think mobile deprivation tanks.
• 46:53
  Terry Garrison: I do too every fire.
• 46:54
  John Vance: They're putting sawdust in.
• 46:56
  John Vance: Haven't been proven to work yet.
• 46:58
  Nick Brunacini: So I think at ten years You'll that will have like the medication you smoke before you get into the tank.
• 47:04
  Terry Garrison: It'll just be a whole thing somebody's gonna drop a toaster and on somebody else.
• 47:08
  Nick Brunacini: It's not gonna.
• 47:08
  Nick Brunacini: Well, i have a curling iron and floating around.
• 47:14
  Terry Garrison: Yeah, it's not good, go ahead.
• 47:15
  Terry Garrison: But what this part you said it, i mean this person it's it's about?
• 47:20
  Terry Garrison: I just think you got to be respectful to everybody, whatever position you're in.
• 47:26
  Terry Garrison: You'd be nice I mean, it's pretty nice of people and then, and then most people want to be nice back to you.
• 47:32
  Terry Garrison: But if you come in and I'm the new guy and it doesn't matter at what age I am, you're gonna do what I say, which this person is not saying that, but there are people to do that.
• 47:40
  Terry Garrison: I've seen people promote to position on the guy.
• 47:43
  Nick Brunacini: Now I got this yeah, they think they're more important than you are all, so I think no pin that on.
• 47:48
  Terry Garrison: All the sudden, all the knowledge and the planet Just went through that badge and entered into your body and now you're the smartest person in the room.
• 47:55
  Terry Garrison: So we had a fire chief that would tell you.
• 47:58
  Terry Garrison: You know, it's written on a wall out there.
• 48:00
  Terry Garrison: If you think you're the smartest person in the room, go to another room.
• 48:04
  Terry Garrison: Yeah, right, and that's so it's Most people will treat, or the way they treat you is a reflection on how you treat them.
• 48:12
  Terry Garrison: Right, right, it really is.
• 48:15
  Nick Brunacini: Yeah, yeah, that's it's.
• 48:16
  Nick Brunacini: It's that simple.
• 48:17
  Nick Brunacini: I Mean it really.
• 48:19
  Nick Brunacini: It's all the stuff that your parents taught you growing up.
• 48:22
  Nick Brunacini: As you can't hit other people, you don't take stuff that's not yours, you have to play nice.
• 48:25
  Nick Brunacini: Those are the basic ethical rules that we all live by, and if you and really and we've all worked with people that didn't get that and And it seems like if you didn't get it when you were young, you just ain't getting it.
• 48:41
  Terry Garrison: You know what.
• 48:41
  Terry Garrison: What I was thinking is that what in our organization growing up because I was, you know, like you talked about There are some war guys that I got hired in you know 77, and there is a lot of old guys left over and most of the ones that didn't want to promote the captain the ones that wanted to Stay engineers and firefighters, and they had some age Love being in that position and they had a.
• 49:04
  Terry Garrison: They had and they took on the responsibility Is to help the young guys do better.
• 49:10
  Terry Garrison: It was it really kind of interesting.
• 49:11
  Terry Garrison: Like I just have Glendale, there's a guy green over there who is an engineer forever and Really brilliant guy, just never wanted to promote the captain but every captain at work for him he made that captain successful and a lot of the, a lot of the older people I guess I'd call them older people because I am one But they want to do that, they want to help you be six.
• 49:32
  Terry Garrison: I remember, like I said, i promoted the captain with I think I had 12 or 13 years on, so that was a little bit of time and I was hired when I was 19, but I was still kind of young, but it seemed like the people that had some age and wisdom were there to help me.
• 49:50
  Terry Garrison: Hey man, i'm gonna help you out.
• 49:52
  Nick Brunacini: It's like wow, thank you, you know, and they were dressed up in different ways, man, you wouldn't expect some of them like The Ed.
• 49:58
  Nick Brunacini: So Bessinsky, i was a roving captain and he was on engine four and I remember going there and it and being his boss and Just on calls he it.
• 50:11
  Nick Brunacini: I had worked with him as a firefighter, so we knew each other and it was different.
• 50:15
  Nick Brunacini: So he acted a certain way when we were working together.
• 50:18
  Nick Brunacini: It was more like equals.
• 50:20
  Nick Brunacini: But but then when I became the officer is he was almost would explain what he was doing on calls in a way And that you thought, you know, i never thought of that before, but that's pretty smart.
• 50:31
  Nick Brunacini: And we were going to a fire and it was summertime, you know.
• 50:34
  Nick Brunacini: So it's like a hundred and five out, and that's how bitch throws on a sweatshirt And then he puts on his turnout coat.
• 50:39
  Nick Brunacini: I asked him what the hell are you doing?
• 50:41
  Nick Brunacini: He says hey, man, you ever get hot?
• 50:43
  Nick Brunacini: I said yeah.
• 50:44
  Nick Brunacini: All the time I've burned the shit out of my shoulders and anywhere my jack.
• 50:48
  Nick Brunacini: He says put on a sweatshirt first.
• 50:50
  Nick Brunacini: He says I quit getting burned.
• 50:51
  Nick Brunacini: He always wore sweatshirt and I said that's I and I now.
• 50:56
  Nick Brunacini: I just wasn't efficient enough to carry out goddamn sweatshirt.
• 50:59
  Nick Brunacini: I thought I'll get burned.
• 51:01
  Nick Brunacini: I guess I put in the sweatshirt on, but It just things like that, little practical things that you didn't think of and you thought she said and you're thinking Sobo came up with this.
• 51:11
  Nick Brunacini: I mean, this guy had a van with every tool known to man in it and then every weapon and every round.
• 51:17
  Nick Brunacini: His old retired Moraney was a lunatic, you know, but he was a nice man, i mean, and so if you were nice to him he'd be nice to you it was just.
• 51:26
  Nick Brunacini: It was perfect.
• 51:27
  Nick Brunacini: I liked working with sobo and then, like you said, the crew would.
• 51:31
  Nick Brunacini: They'd start a thing.
• 51:31
  Nick Brunacini: Man, leave the hell alone.
• 51:33
  Nick Brunacini: Who are you?
• 51:35
  Nick Brunacini: I'm so close, buddy today.
• 51:36
  Nick Brunacini: Yeah, no more.
• 51:38
  Nick Brunacini: Yeah, put your stuff back in your pocket will be fine.
• 51:41
  Terry Garrison: Yeah, so I had a driver that passed away, a Vietnam era veteran, sid Norwood.
• 51:46
  Terry Garrison: Well, i love Sydney and He was older than me by I don't know 15 years and went to Vietnam and had all this and He was my driver for probably 10 years and treated me like I was his dad, his boss on duty And I'd see him off duty.
• 52:04
  Terry Garrison: We'd every once, while have dinner, have a beer, and the roles completely changed Sydney, What do you think?
• 52:08
  Terry Garrison: and but when we were on duty, he gave me all the respect and and Just it's incredible how those guys are able to do that.
• 52:16
  Nick Brunacini: It was.
• 52:16
  Nick Brunacini: It was a unique generation of people that were ahead of us.
• 52:20
  Nick Brunacini: Is that guy?
• 52:22
  John Vance: One thing I would say to GD to is you're gonna go from feeling like you have all these people that are older than you and In a blink of an eye it's they're all gonna be younger than you.
• 52:32
  John Vance: And where that bridge happens, i don't know, but it happened to me in the last five, ten years Where I was always the young supervisor and then all of a sudden it's like oh wait, a minute, i am the oldest guy here now, pretty much, and Relish being the young guy.
• 52:52
  Terry Garrison: Drs In Dennis.
• 52:52
  Terry Garrison: Every you walk in now and you see a doctor, dennis, the eye person, whoever, and it's like she could be my kid, but you respect the position they're in and you know so well, i mean, that's what happens when you accumulate age you become the oldest person in the room sometimes.
• 53:09
  Nick Brunacini: But like you said, vance, it's a weird thing to get used to.
• 53:12
  Nick Brunacini: Yeah, i walk down in there in the classroom and like sometimes I'll think I Don't know if any of you are even 50 years old.
• 53:18
  Nick Brunacini: Yet I mean, jesus Christ, where did you come from?
• 53:21
  Nick Brunacini: Say it matters that it sneaks up on you happens in a blink of an eye.
• 53:27
  Nick Brunacini: Yeah Well, the alternative sucks Yeah.
• 53:31
  John Vance: Should we do a timeless tactical truth before we go?
• 53:33
  John Vance: why not?
• 53:34
  John Vance: Yes, timeless tactical truth.
• 53:43
  John Vance: It's the cards from Allen Brunisini available to be shifter store and we pulled one out at random.
• 53:49
  John Vance: This is the Jack of clubs, the jack of I.
• 53:53
  John Vance: I think of the loveboat episode where they were trying to cheat at a card game and And Gopher was on the PA saying, oh try, the club sandwich today, it's going to jack you up.
• 54:06
  Terry Garrison: So you just aged yourself.
• 54:07
  John Vance: Yeah, the loveboat.
• 54:09
  Nick Brunacini: Have you read the latest?
• 54:10
  Nick Brunacini: well, it's the recent, and it's been happening last year too, with the chest, the high level Chestmaster tournaments, and they said that's over.
• 54:20
  Nick Brunacini: They said there's not going to be any more gary kasparovs or any of these people.
• 54:25
  Nick Brunacini: Why?
• 54:25
  Nick Brunacini: because now they have figured out how to cheat.
• 54:28
  Nick Brunacini: But see, computers have become so good with AI that they can beat any chess player in the world.
• 54:34
  Nick Brunacini: So what happens is they have these tournaments and these people put, like these, vibrating sensors up in their rectum and I'm not bullshit, this, this happens, man.
• 54:46
  Nick Brunacini: They said it's over.
• 54:47
  Nick Brunacini: Grandmaster chess is done unless they do a Proctologist exam on you beforehand.
• 54:53
  Nick Brunacini: And then what they do is they communicate to them with what move to make through that device.
• 55:00
  Nick Brunacini: And okay, you know the three of this and two of this means move this piece wherever, so they get that worked out.
• 55:05
  Nick Brunacini: And then these, whoever it was, is just smoking them.
• 55:08
  Nick Brunacini: You know one of the boom, boom, boom.
• 55:10
  Terry Garrison: So they got Google glasses or something a whole time.
• 55:12
  Terry Garrison: Cameraman, you get on, i want to look at.
• 55:19
  Nick Brunacini: I know sometimes the tactical truth could be both some part of the podcast, exactly So.
• 55:25
  Nick Brunacini: We've talked about purple lights burning us to death and cheating as grandmasters in chess and Isolation dip tanks.
• 55:32
  Nick Brunacini: Yeah, i, we're onto something here, i think the time tactical truth command post location.
• 55:40
  Nick Brunacini: I.
• 55:47
  John Vance: Command post location Good view, obscene, remote from action.
• 55:53
  John Vance: Doesn't interfere with apparatus movement.
• 55:55
  John Vance: View of two most critical sides of the situation.
• 56:00
  John Vance: We were just talking about the command post and us screwing it up as humans, but command post location for us, i mean, this is, this is a good truth, because you need to find that.
• 56:11
  John Vance: What happens when you can't get that at the scene?
• 56:15
  Nick Brunacini: Well, you, that's like the the Easter egg to get that spot, and once you get, it is Very quickly.
• 56:23
  Nick Brunacini: A ladder truck will park right in front of your command post.
• 56:27
  Terry Garrison: I've told this story before, but so I'm a new IC.
• 56:30
  Terry Garrison: I've got cliff in his driving for me very experienced Driver, and We call them fits back then or age out on there.
• 56:41
  Terry Garrison: And so we pull up to this scene and we got a rip, roar and commercial big box fire.
• 56:48
  Terry Garrison: And I look up and I get my senses and I go down and I'm writing and I'm like this first I'm getting a little anxious.
• 56:55
  Terry Garrison: Getting a little anxious, i write a couple things, i'm talking on the radio.
• 56:58
  Terry Garrison: I look up again and hit, driven me to another corner.
• 57:03
  Nick Brunacini: I Look, i was like What the hell happened I?
• 57:07
  Terry Garrison: felt like I machine he timed machine, jeff.
• 57:10
  Terry Garrison: Oh, i never.
• 57:11
  Terry Garrison: I was so caught up with this as a brand new IC Battalion three that I didn't even feel the vehicle moving and he moved me over to another position.
• 57:19
  Terry Garrison: But you know, like you said, that's the Easter egg.
• 57:22
  Terry Garrison: If you can get that spot, get that spot and do the best you can.
• 57:26
  Terry Garrison: If you can't get that spot, you're still gonna do the best you can, right?
• 57:29
  Nick Brunacini: well, i advise what I got in the habit of doing.
• 57:31
  Nick Brunacini: If I was IC number two, i would try to loop the building with my car as part of my response.
• 57:37
  Nick Brunacini: So I could get the most views, because I figured once we park as our views going away.
• 57:42
  Nick Brunacini: That's true.
• 57:42
  Nick Brunacini: One day We pulled up in the same deal.
• 57:44
  Nick Brunacini: We pull up and it's rocking and rolling and it's cooking, just go into town And so you're like it's like marginal, it's okay, we're gonna attack, we're gonna do this, but you know, if this ain't done, in a minute and a half We got to make a change and in the middle of it a Glendale ladder truck pulls up.
• 58:03
  Nick Brunacini: Well, glendale painted their apparatus yellow.
• 58:05
  Nick Brunacini: My Fit partner is Lynn and he gets out of the thing and he screams.
• 58:12
  Nick Brunacini: It may have been a Don Jesse, move your school bus.
• 58:15
  Nick Brunacini: And about that time all of a sudden out riggers go down this Brono.
• 58:24
  Nick Brunacini: Got me it's like the buildings are like the hell with the building.
• 58:27
  Nick Brunacini: Let's watch and put the Brono up again.
• 58:29
  Nick Brunacini: You know it'll go up and over.
• 58:31
  Nick Brunacini: We could do 2,000 gallons a minute off the tip.
• 58:33
  Nick Brunacini: So it was yeah, we left this where it was and, yeah, we ended up changing the strategy and using the brono.
• 58:40
  Nick Brunacini: It worked.
• 58:44
  Terry Garrison: Stay out of the smoke.
• 58:45
  Terry Garrison: Yeah right, that was.
• 58:47
  Terry Garrison: Think about Southwest supermarket, right, we couldn't see the building at all.
• 58:52
  Terry Garrison: So when I got there, the battalion chief was in the smoke.
• 58:56
  Terry Garrison: We pulled up the command van and we thought we're in a good location And command van is difficult to get We never.
• 59:04
  Terry Garrison: Doomed.
• 59:06
  Terry Garrison: We were across the parking lot.
• 59:08
  Terry Garrison: Never saw the building until it.
• 59:12
  Nick Brunacini: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's part of it.
• 59:13
  Nick Brunacini: That was fate man right there That was yeah.
• 59:15
  Nick Brunacini: I wouldn't have changed anything.
• 59:16
  Nick Brunacini: No, no, we couldn't have changed it there.
• 59:19
  Terry Garrison: We couldn't have, we were boxed in.
• 59:21
  Terry Garrison: But I guess the other thing is, if you're not it, i'm gonna say this Nick, you may disagree with me, but if you're not in a good position, i like what Nick says we're gonna drive around and pick a good spot, if you're not in a good spot and It's gonna compromise what you think you can do, move to and that move your spot.
• 59:39
  Nick Brunacini: Have your there's the problem is sometimes you can't is you're so as you can, and what I would do is I would send my Partner forward and I'd say go forward and tell me what the hell we got to be doing next.
• 59:51
  Nick Brunacini: And so he would come back and like, if it's a big apartment complex, for example, and then this happened to me and it's like I can't make sense of the building because I can't see it, it's too far away and there's too much fire and smoke.
• 1:00:02
  Nick Brunacini: He comes back and he says, nick, look at the building to the left of you and it's laid out exactly the same.
• 1:00:08
  Nick Brunacini: And this is what was.
• 1:00:09
  Nick Brunacini: So I, he could give me a reference where I could wrap my head around it.
• 1:00:13
  Nick Brunacini: There was another time where we didn't do much in wild land here.
• 1:00:16
  Nick Brunacini: It just didn't happen very often.
• 1:00:18
  Nick Brunacini: I mean, it's Phoenix, it's a desert, we don't have a lot of Oil rich growth coming out of the ground, but we had a fire way north, north of carefree highway, and they set the command vana, yeah, and there was, and they had probably about 50 or 60 acres burn.
• 1:00:33
  Nick Brunacini: So it was a deal and I remember was burning towards us and There was an airplane overhead from the Bureau of Land Management And they said I worry, expect turnover in the next three to five minutes, something to that effect.
• 1:00:47
  Nick Brunacini: And I asked somebody in the like, the support officer.
• 1:00:50
  Nick Brunacini: I said what the hell is burn over?
• 1:00:52
  Nick Brunacini: He says it's gonna burn over the road.
• 1:00:54
  Nick Brunacini: I said that we're parked on and he says yeah, so Bev drove the command van.
• 1:00:59
  Nick Brunacini: I said just drive us, just start driving, i'll tell you when to stop.
• 1:01:03
  Nick Brunacini: And like the put the pop out was still out, she's rock, it was over, all good.
• 1:01:09
  Nick Brunacini: I mean we had to move the command post because otherwise we're gonna have burn over.
• 1:01:15
  Terry Garrison: I had Early on and now maybe you can get a sense of what what the building looks like.
• 1:01:20
  Terry Garrison: But I learned from the south was freeway, because I thought that was One structure and it ended up being that add-on that wasn't connected to there's not four walls or seven.
• 1:01:32
  Terry Garrison: So I would have Sid Norwood.
• 1:01:33
  Terry Garrison: He would get out when we first arrived and he would take a clipboard and he would do a quick walk around, make sure he Didn't talk to anybody.
• 1:01:41
  Terry Garrison: Right, don't stop.
• 1:01:42
  Terry Garrison: This is something that he did for me because I had trouble getting a feel for the building, and he would come back.
• 1:01:48
  Terry Garrison: He goes this way you got, and he'd show me a, a layout of the building.
• 1:01:52
  Terry Garrison: It was crude but it made sense, right?
• 1:01:54
  Terry Garrison: it's like oh, okay, now I.
• 1:01:56
  Terry Garrison: Now I understand what we got, so that helped me.
• 1:02:00
  Nick Brunacini: You know, i think, what the solution is today, or drones, is.
• 1:02:03
  Nick Brunacini: If you got, it's that man.
• 1:02:04
  Nick Brunacini: I used helicopters all the time, media helicopter.
• 1:02:07
  Nick Brunacini: I prefer them over the cops because the media had better cameras.
• 1:02:11
  Nick Brunacini: Yeah, so, and we could, we could, we, we could pull their signal off in our command post.
• 1:02:17
  Nick Brunacini: So that was a deal and they had a radio so you could talk to them.
• 1:02:20
  Nick Brunacini: So a lot of times we would get intel That way from and it was much better and you can make better decisions about.
• 1:02:28
  Nick Brunacini: Okay, especially like in more complicated action-planning Scenarios where you had, like, bigger buildings that were more complex, you make better sense out what's going on.
• 1:02:39
  Nick Brunacini: And I think today, with drones and you see more and more fire departments, i mean, if I was doing a command post would be goddamn drone and the roof of the thing and you would use it.
• 1:02:48
  Nick Brunacini: In fact, you could tether it almost.
• 1:02:51
  Nick Brunacini: It doesn't have to be able to fly everywhere And you just need an aerial view of the building you're in front of.
• 1:02:56
  John Vance: So I mean there there's different ways to Deal with the bad view we just put one in service in our battalion vehicles, a tethered drone, so it flies under 200 feet, so you don't need a license for it.
• 1:03:08
  John Vance: It's it's fixed and you can run it for 24 hours and yeah, it's still be up.
• 1:03:13
  Terry Garrison: Do you got a train pilot?
• 1:03:15
  John Vance: No, you don't need one because it's tethered and it's 190 feet is all it goes up, so you don't need the license to do it.
• 1:03:21
  Nick Brunacini: So you get the drone up and then all you can manipulate the camera so you can zoom and do this and that and there's a thermal Imager on there and everything else.
• 1:03:28
  John Vance: So it's yeah, so we're.
• 1:03:29
  John Vance: We haven't used it yet.
• 1:03:30
  John Vance: We just put it in service last week.
• 1:03:32
  Nick Brunacini: Yeah, I think like interior.
• 1:03:33
  Nick Brunacini: You can use a drone interior And so if you have like a drone, you could have somebody flying into dangerous It's like the cop robot almost is will send the robot in.
• 1:03:43
  Nick Brunacini: Well, the drone does the same thing for us.
• 1:03:45
  John Vance: So the other thing I'd say about command post location, at least for my area, is don't be afraid to offer.
• 1:03:51
  John Vance: I don't like fire apparatus or ladder trucks, anything off the road.
• 1:03:54
  John Vance: But if you've got a park in someone's yard a little bit, only about 20% of the time do they complain, and Thankfully we have a great public works department.
• 1:04:02
  John Vance: They'll go out and put sod down and patch the hole.
• 1:04:05
  John Vance: If we put ruts in somebody's yard, but we don't hesitate to pull a chief's vehicle off into somebody's yard So we can a be out of the way and then get a good view.
• 1:04:14
  Nick Brunacini: So for us, you know, i would say that was a yeah, it's a BC.
• 1:04:16
  Nick Brunacini: You learn that sometimes I have to get off the street and drive over sidewalks and things in residential neighborhoods, we would back into the driveway across the street.
• 1:04:26
  Terry Garrison: Yeah, that's beautiful.
• 1:04:27
  Nick Brunacini: Yeah, now, man, there's that's.
• 1:04:29
  Nick Brunacini: But that's a good quiet.
• 1:04:31
  Nick Brunacini: What's a good timeless tactical truth.
• 1:04:32
  Nick Brunacini: There's the command post most of the time I bet 75% of time you had a very good view, You didn't need to move it and you could kind of tell the changing conditions and so you know.
• 1:04:41
  Nick Brunacini: And that's really.
• 1:04:42
  Nick Brunacini: It's a lot more efficient when the IC has Visual factor feedback, because you know immediately the the status of your attack and what's going on.
• 1:04:54
  John Vance: All right, let's wrap it up.
• 1:04:56
  John Vance: Thanks guys, come by on.
• 1:04:59
  Nick Brunacini: I like it when it's more like this Yes, yeah, it's enjoyable, yeah, and.
• 1:05:03
  Nick Brunacini: I I really think that we get some tanks and we could do this inside the tanks.
• 1:05:07
  Nick Brunacini: Can we share tanks?
• 1:05:09
  Terry Garrison: Can we all?
• 1:05:09
  Terry Garrison: I don't in the beginning, i think we we got it.
• 1:05:11
  Nick Brunacini: We have to be a spooning in the tank.
• 1:05:14
  John Vance: No, not yet.
• 1:05:14
  John Vance: I'm worried about Nick and his.
• 1:05:18
  Nick Brunacini: Dukie.
• 1:05:21
  Terry Garrison: Yeah, yeah, and a body of water before, because that question came out.
• 1:05:26
  Nick Brunacini: I was highly relaxed when it happened.
• 1:05:28
  John Vance: We all have listen, i think, we all.
• 1:05:31
  Nick Brunacini: I get my big head from my mama.
• 1:05:34
  John Vance: Thanks for listening to be shifter.