Latest / The Relentless Pursuit of Winning Podcast / The Dark Side of Winning: Why Purpose Matters More Than Passion | Jay Sapovits

Transcript

The Dark Side of Winning: Why Purpose Matters More Than Passion | Jay Sapovits · The Relentless Pursuit of Winning Podcast

0:00
I
0:00
Went into recovery for compulsive gambling,
0:02
which I
0:03
Mm.
0:03
was from the time I was 13 until I was 24.
0:07
For the first half of my life I was a ready fire aim type of
0:10
an entrepreneur who just ran as fast as I possibly could and then as I
0:14
got older I got smarter and I realized that maybe you want to aim before you fire.
0:19
The essence of entrepreneurship is solving problems.
0:22
You need to think of a problem that you have that you want to create a solution for,
0:26
A solution into a problem with no market is useless too.
0:29
you don't
0:29
yeah.
0:30
work for money.
0:30
You work for purpose and the money comes.
0:33
I mean I'd replace passion with purpose.
0:35
passion can can wane, but generally speaking,
0:38
purpose doesn't.
0:55
Hey guys, welcome to another episode of the Relentless Pursuit of Winning Podcast.
0:59
My name is Rick Meekins. I am your host as usual,
1:01
and in our studio we have Jay Sapovits.
1:03
How are you today, sir?
1:04
Rick, great to be with you today.
1:07
Hey, it's great that you're here.
1:07
It's great that you're here, folks.
1:09
This is gonna be a really good show.
1:10
This
1:10
is one of those why did I become an entrepreneur show with all the highs
1:15
and lows and everything else that goes in between.
1:17
So buckle up, let's get it started.
1:19
However, if you haven't done already,
1:21
I would be grateful if you like,
1:22
subscribe, hit the bell so you can get updates every time we drop a new episode.
1:26
And without further ado, let's get to it.
1:27
So Jay, give us an overview, who you are,
1:30
what you do, and why you do what you do.
1:32
Hmm. Yeah, that's not a loaded question at all,
1:35
right? I listen, I mean
1:36
No, no.
1:37
who who who I am, I'm a I'm I'm a I'm a lifelong I'm a lifelong doer.
1:41
Mm-hmm.
1:43
I'm someone who has you know for the For the first half of my life I
1:46
was a ready fire aim type of an entrepreneur who just ran as fast
1:52
as I possibly could and then as I got older I got smarter and I realized that maybe
1:56
you want to aim before you fire.
1:57
so look I I've I've started a number of businesses.
2:00
I've been on a bunch of founding teams.
2:02
I became an entrepreneur I don't want to say accidentally but
2:07
through adversity and really just filling a gap in a a a situation where
2:12
I was in that wasn't where I exactly wanted to be at twenty-five years old.
2:18
And I just continued to pursue things that interested me and had a high level
2:24
of high level of I've always liked action.
2:27
So which goes back to my history of of you know of in life.
2:31
And I've always I've always put myself in situations to be around it.
2:35
So yeah, I mean that's how I would describe myself as as an overview,
2:40
a a a relentless doer.
2:42
I like it. I like it. I like it.
2:43
Tell me something. Your first business,
2:45
you gave me the impression that this wasn't something that was planned.
2:48
What tell tell us? How did you get into that?
2:50
And what was it?
2:51
Sure, yeah. So my first job was I was in the I was in the radio business
2:54
out of college and I was the youngest talk show host ever hired
2:58
in Philadelphia on sports radio 610 WIP which was the number one station
3:03
for men and sports talk, ~ back
3:06
Mm-hmm.
3:07
in ninety five when I when I got the job and was when I left in ninety seven.
3:12
And the reason I left is because I
3:15
Went into recovery for compulsive gambling,
3:17
which I
3:17
Mm.
3:18
was from the time I was 13 until I was 24.
3:21
when I went into recovery. And so,
3:24
as part of my recovery, I took a recovery job.
3:28
If you're not aware what a recovery job is,
3:31
it's it's really a a a mindless job that fills a lot of time,
3:34
that gives you the space to be able to get your head
3:38
Recovery jump started, so you don't have too much pressure from a work
3:43
you know standpoint. you know,
3:45
look, I was young, I was living with my parents still at the time.
3:48
I had a girlfriend, my wife of 30 years almost now.
3:51
and it was a tipped job. It was I was working outside services at a golf club.
3:56
I I really wasn't a golfer yet.
3:58
and I would I would work 630,
4:01
60.
4:03
Yeah, six AM until two two thirty every day.
4:06
Mm-hmm.
4:07
play golf in the afternoon. So it was just sucking up a lot of time.
4:10
I was also learning how to golf,
4:11
but I made seven dollars an hour.
4:13
I'm 25 years old, a college degree,
4:16
and I had just been an on-air talk show host and the number one station
4:20
in the country for its format.
4:22
And now I'm making seven dollars an hour plus tip tips,
4:25
Rick. Think about that. Coming home
4:27
Yeah.
4:28
every day and giving my girlfriend,
4:29
again now my wife at the time,
4:31
the money so we can pay down my debt and when we choose to start our life,
4:35
not be collapsed.
4:36
Buy it. So what happened was working outside services at a golf course,
4:42
you see patterns. Anytime you work for tips,
4:44
you see patterns. So I parked cars on a Las Vegas strip.
4:48
I went to UNLV, which makes total sense for a compulsive gambler.
4:52
~
4:52
Mm-hmm.
4:53
and believe me, sought out because that's how I wanted the action.
4:58
So
4:58
Mm-hmm.
5:00
anytime you work for tips, you'd notice and develop patterns.
5:03
You just do, right? When do I get paid and when I get
5:06
Mm.
5:07
And I noticed a pattern at the golf course of
5:11
really busy periods between seven and nine thirty AM and then they would
5:15
get slow between nine thirty and eleven and then it would pick
5:17
up around lunchtime but then it would get slow in the afternoons.
5:21
So after a while my head started to clear and I started to jot down
5:26
a a business plan. I didn't know it was a business plan.
5:29
I'd never written a business plan.
5:31
I'd never started a business before.
5:32
~
5:33
Mm-hmm.
5:33
I'd always been in positions of leadership,
5:35
believe it or not, you know, like working at the at the Valet stand
5:39
I I became sort of the leader there,
5:42
working at
5:42
Mm-hmm.
5:43
at the campus radio station. I became the sports director.
5:46
You know, so I'd always elevated wherever I was at because of my relentlessness.
5:52
And
5:53
I just jotted stuff down, came up with a plan,
5:56
pitched the general manager, and said basically,
5:59
like, hey, we have these gaps.
6:00
I can fill them. And he hired me to be the from from outside the and
6:05
I obviously was doing great work outside in the cart shack,
6:08
but he hired me to basically become the sales manager of the golf club.
6:13
We crushed we crushed revenue the next year.
6:18
I think I I think at that point I I was up to a full forty thousand dollars a year.
6:22
You know, mind you, this is nineteen ninety-seven.
6:26
And then, you know,
6:29
through just identifying a gap in Philadelphia sports,
6:35
I had another idea. And the idea
6:37
Mm-hmm.
6:37
was to basically play a one-day skins game with the best players in golf.
6:44
At our golf club to promote the course,
6:47
get the rates higher, and use it as our main advertising and marketing channel.
6:52
And from that, I created what I now know to be my first ever business,
6:56
which was the Exilon Invitational hosted by Jim Furyk.
7:02
which was a one-day skins game that ended up lasting almost well not almost
7:06
10 years and 11 events in those 10 years and was widely considered one
7:12
of the most successful special events to the PGA tour in the history
7:16
of in the history of the game.
7:18
So that was my very first business and that all
7:24
manifest itself from sitting in a car chak,
7:28
trying to get my head clean and clear,
7:30
which, you know, obviously I did.
7:33
Wow, wow. I mean that's that's I mean that's I think I feel like that's
7:36
the definition of entrepreneurship.
7:38
I mean, you you saw an opportunity,
7:40
you know, and and you took advantage of it.
7:42
I mean, even if you didn't think about it from that perspective,
7:44
I mean it's just like, wow, this this is city here.
7:46
I need to do something about that.
7:48
And you know, this is I think as as entrepreneurs,
7:51
I think sometimes, you know, we we lose track of that.
7:54
You know, we get into that that regular okay,
7:56
I'm just doing I'm doing I've created a job for myself,
7:58
but
7:59
You know, we we have you know,
8:00
we have that, you know, and and I absolutely love that about about what we do.
8:04
Well, Rick, I mean I think look,
8:06
the The essence of entrepreneurship is solving problems.
8:10
All right.
8:11
Yeah.
8:11
So I think oftentimes folks will approach it with the concept of I need
8:16
to think of an idea. And it's like,
8:18
you don't need to think of an idea.
8:20
You need to think of a problem that you have that you want to create a solution for,
8:24
and then have
8:25
Yeah.
8:25
to figure out whether or not there's other people who have that problem.
8:28
And if they do have that problem,
8:30
are there enough of them? And if there's enough of them,
8:34
can you sell it to one of them?
8:35
And so if you follow that framework,
8:38
right? I have a problem, I'm creating.
8:40
It's going to create a solution.
8:42
Do other people have this problem?
8:45
Are
8:45
Mm-hmm.
8:46
there enough of them? And then the key one,
8:48
and you can't miss this one. Can I sell it to one of them?
8:52
Right? Who doesn't have your last name,
8:55
by the way? Right? A stranger.
8:58
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
8:58
Can I sell it to a
8:59
stranger? And if the answer to all those things is yes,
9:03
you likely have a business and an opportunity.
9:06
You know, a problem with no market.
9:09
A solution into a problem with no market is useless too.
9:12
So I you can't I mean,
9:16
I haven't ever seen anybody successful,
9:18
and maybe you have, you could tell me.
9:20
I haven't seen anybody successful just thinking about like I want to think about
9:23
a problem, or I want to think about a a business and start a business
9:27
and then go start a business. I it it all stems from either a passion or a
9:33
Fixing of a problem. I I've never seen anybody sort of just do
9:37
it because they're but not be in it.
9:41
Yeah, yeah, yeah, a hundred percent,
9:43
a hundred percent. You know, that's that's that's a that's a conversation I've
9:46
had a few times lately, you know,
9:47
the the passion oriented business versus the the the opportunity oriented business.
9:52
Tell me what what are your thoughts on the passion oriented business?
9:57
Yeah, I you know, passion only takes you so far.
10:00
~
10:01
Yeah.
10:01
I I I find passion for me at least,
10:04
look, I'm passionate about my business.
10:05
I love it. I I do like and love the decoration and and swag and merch business.
10:11
But you know, again, it it it I I also have passions and things I love outside
10:15
of outside of work, right? So like golf,
10:18
for example, is something I now love.
10:20
And I couldn't imagine creating a business again inside of the golf world.
10:25
It's I think
10:27
Just cr you know, there's so many people and golf's a perfect example of it,
10:30
right? There's so many people who put their life savings into like,
10:35
I don't know, a toll of some sort or a teaching aid,
10:40
or you know, I mean I just listen,
10:42
I have a buddy of mine who who just opened up a a golf simulator,
10:46
place and I mean there's like five golf simulator places inside of a
10:50
10 mile radius from me. And you know,
10:52
he said to me, he's like, all I need is 150 members and I'm gonna
10:55
and it's making money. And I'm saying to myself,
10:57
like, 150 members, like, do you understand how hard that is to get 150 people
11:02
to pay $99 six times a year?
11:06
I I mean on on you know that's hard.
11:09
You know it's really hard to get members.
11:11
And I think sometimes you can put things into a
11:14
Spreadsheet, and you're so passionate about it,
11:17
and you love it so much that you can lose sight of whether or not there's really
11:23
a business there. And I'll
11:24
Yeah.
11:24
tell you, the biggest mistakes I've ever made in my life
11:27
is investing in infrastructure,
11:28
which you have to do if you're opening a retail type store like
11:31
a golf simulator joint, before I had customers.
11:35
So I, you know, I'm long on finding customers and then filling it,
11:39
finding out how to how to.
11:41
So
11:41
Create the business behind it.
11:43
And you know, I'm fortunate we're older now and mature,
11:46
we're a mature business and a bigger business.
11:48
We don't we don't have that, right?
11:49
We've got a pretty sophisticated shop.
11:51
But yeah, I mean, nothing happens till something's sold is the old expression.
11:55
And it's, you know, burying 50 to 100 that I mean,
11:58
restaurants are the same. I mean,
11:59
all your cost is up front, and you don't know,
12:02
you know, you serve somebody one bad meal and they're never coming back.
12:06
It's just really difficult to do,
12:09
and you
12:10
Yeah.
12:10
know, not for the faint of heart or faint of pocket.
12:14
Yeah, painted pocket. There you go right there.
12:17
Hey, give me a flashback from from our restaurant.
12:20
it was that was that was some st that was some scary stuff.
12:22
You know, it's just trying to make the trying to make it work.
12:25
You know, week in and week week out.
12:27
It's like you said, you have all the upfront costs and it's like,
12:29
All right, are are we gonna make it work?
12:31
Are we gonna hit our hit our numbers every week?
12:33
'Cause like you said, you know,
12:34
one bad meal, one bad experience,
12:35
you know, it it's gonna have triple effects.
12:37
I admire restaurateurs. I I think they've got to be the best
12:40
Well, listen, the ones who are successful have to be the best business people
12:44
in the world. First off, you're dealing with perishable items.
12:46
Second,
12:47
Yeah.
12:48
right, you not only most of most most restaurateurs get into it because they're
12:52
a chef and they love to cook and they're passionate about cooking.
12:54
Talk about passion. They're passionate about cooking,
12:56
right? You ran a restaurant. How much of your restaurant was running running
13:00
the business and how much of it was being a chef?
13:02
If you could have just been a chef,
13:04
most people say, if I could have just been the chef,
13:06
right? It's like if you want to be a chef and you love to cook.
13:10
You know what? I got an idea. Be a chef.
13:12
Like, you don't have
13:14
Mm-hmm.
13:14
to own the restaurant. You know,
13:17
and that was told to me too by someone who I thought was who was very successful
13:20
and influential in my life. It's like,
13:22
you know, there's people who like being garbage men.
13:26
Not everybody has to own the garbage company.
13:29
Like, it's okay to just enjoy a job.
13:34
So
13:35
That I would I would you know,
13:36
I don't know if anybody's passionate about garbage,
13:38
but that was the example he used and I used it again.
13:41
But being a chef is a perfect example.
13:44
Like if you're passionate about cooking,
13:46
it's okay to just be a chef. You don't have to own the restaurant.
13:50
Mm. Mm. You know, I was I was a chef I was a chef for a long time and
13:54
it and I enjoyed it. It was you know,
13:56
it was never I don't know, I I wanted to do my own thing just because
14:00
I wanted the to create the entire experience.
14:02
You know, and I wanted someone else to be able to manage the front of the house.
14:06
I can ra manage the back of the house.
14:07
But, you know, it's it's it was r it was a it was my first business,
14:11
you know, it was I mean there was there was a lot to it.
14:13
It was a it was a great experience.
14:14
You know, I would
14:15
Did you get out alive?
14:16
never do it again. Was that?
14:18
Did you get out alive?
14:20
I d I kinda did, kinda did. It was it w it was a lot of negotiation,
14:25
but yeah, we we got I g I got out of it alive.
14:27
Yeah. Yeah. I was a sh ~
14:27
~ and it was it was a great
14:30
I I was a chef, by the way.
14:32
Where are you really?
14:33
Yeah, line cook at Friendly’s
14:36
Not the same.
14:37
One of my one of my many jobs growing up.
14:39
How many jobs have you had in your life?
14:41
How many jobs have I had? I'm g I'm gonna guesstimate s five,
14:46
actually. The rest of it I've just been yeah.
14:47
Five? All right.
14:50
I I I I wrote it down once on LinkedIn.
14:52
I think I was at twenty-two.
14:54
Wow. Wow. Yeah, I've I've
14:56
Yeah, but I'm talking about like
14:57
I'm talking about from the time I'm 13.
14:59
I was a dishwasher, I was a line cook at Friendlies,
15:01
I worked at a pharmacy, I slung flowers at a greenhouse when I was 13 years old.
15:08
right.
15:09
I mean, like those types of jobs.
15:10
Like, I mean, I worked at a dry cleaner's,
15:13
I valley parked cars, I was an ice hockey referee.
15:17
I mean it's
15:20
I w I was a worker. I I had a lot of different things going on at the same time
15:24
all the time. That's what I mean.
15:26
Like I'm I'm a relentless doer.
15:28
Like I don't have
15:29
Yeah.
15:30
what you know, I can work a four hour day and that's most people's eight.
15:34
And I I don't mean that in a pejorative way.
15:36
It's just it it's who I am. And I used to be a night owl at
15:39
Just hard work and lots of things happening.
15:41
Yeah, I just like to do it. It's I'm not a workaholic.
15:45
I could be doing
15:46
different things and move on. Like and I can put things down now.
15:49
I don't know, somebody asks me a question and I answer it and people seem
15:53
to keep asking questions. So that that's work.
15:56
I guess so. Cool. What was what was the biggest lesson,
16:00
most important lesson you learned from the from the golf business?
16:03
From the yeah.
16:05
Yeah, I mean the golf business was crazy because I was I was I was,
16:09
you know, definitely punching up and out of my weight class as it related
16:13
to as it related to you know, being in business.
16:17
I remember, you know, we didn't so the course that we did at didn't have
16:20
a a a clubhouse facility and
16:23
Mm-hmm.
16:23
the management company who agreed to to do the event with me,
16:27
in the contracts made me put in in a ton
16:32
of additional costs like a luxury RV rental so the players would have their
16:38
own private space because but they didn't have you know a clubhouse facility
16:44
for the players to to dress and all that good stuff in.
16:47
Mm-hmm.
16:48
And you know what I learned is that
16:52
Sometimes when you want to get things done and you don't have the upper hand,
16:57
you've just gotta say yes and figure out how you how you get it done.
17:00
And, you know, we did. And, you know,
17:04
I look back at that. It's funny,
17:05
the guy who was the head of the operations for that is a a powerhouse
17:08
in the sports industry now, and I saw him in the Hamptons last year and
17:12
we hugged it out and as I hugged him I said,
17:14
I can't can believe you made me pay for those RVs.
17:19
Ha
17:19
ha ha ha.
17:21
Rick, it's 1997. We're still I'm still talking about the RV I had to pay for.
17:25
But
17:26
Ha ha ha ha ha.
17:27
I mean that's like, you know, that links you forever.
17:31
And
17:32
Mm-hmm.
17:33
so but I had no choice, right?
17:36
I was I I I wasn't what was I gonna negotiate?
17:40
I mean I was happy somebody said yes.
17:42
I it was a position of all time,
17:45
and I knew it. So sometimes you only get one chance and
17:50
I mean early in life at least.
17:52
And you gotta do what you got you gotta you gotta do what it takes to say yes.
17:56
Did you did you feel like this was gonna turn into what it turned out?
18:00
My life.
18:01
No, no, no. The the all do it doing all
18:01
Give me my life or the or the of
18:03
the eleven events.
18:04
Well, you know, I I actually left after four and and you know,
18:08
got I got out of the business after four years and and it was taken over.
18:12
you know, again that that's sort of that's a you know,
18:17
I I was ready to move up to New England.
18:19
The event was in Philadelphia.
18:21
We were raising my family. My wife and I had we had gotten married.
18:25
We had a had our first daughter.
18:26
We were expecting a second. and her parents were up here and she wanted
18:30
to raise our family up in New England.
18:31
And it was a promise that I had made to her.
18:33
So I had sold my piece of the business and moved on to other,
18:37
you know, another venture. But
18:40
did I think it was gonna turn into it?
18:42
I mean, yeah, I thought I built something that was super fun and successful
18:46
and that people enjoyed and loved.
18:48
I mean, we had five, six, seven thousand people walking following
18:52
one foursome in our first event.
18:55
you know, the second event was just as big.
18:58
I mean, it was a scene, yeah. I mean,
19:00
it just was a different time where there wasn't content overload like there is now.
19:06
And you know, Philly didn't have the best golfers in the world.
19:09
And we had Jim Furyk and Sergio Garcia.
19:12
And, you know, Sergio was 19 years old and had played in the PGA
19:18
and was super popular because of it.
19:20
And the Ryder Cup came up in a couple weeks after that.
19:22
So I mean, did I think it was going to be as successful?
19:26
And yeah, I yeah, why not? I did.
19:28
Why not? What was next for you?
19:30
Yeah, why not? Like ~
19:33
so yeah, I moved up to New England.
19:34
I I opened the Boston I was employee number eleven or twelve of Marquis Jet
19:40
zero revenue. we went from zero to a billion in four and a half years.
19:44
I opened the Boston office for the for the crew.
19:47
and I ended up running the Midwest for the company for almost five years.
19:52
And the world of the world of private jets and and going from really what
19:57
I I consider now looking back to be a small business in the Exxelon to a
20:03
to a large business. I mean scaling a company in revenue to the
20:07
to the point where we did I mean zero to a billion in almost five years
20:11
was you know a staggering staggering pace and you know I was very fortunate.
20:16
I mean the two lead entrepreneurs on that venture,
20:18
Kenneth Dichter and Jesse Itzler are superstars and multi-time entrepreneurs.
20:23
a lot of people know Jesse and Kenny is run now two private jet companies,
20:28
two over a billion, took Wheels Up public and is
20:32
A serial entrepreneur with
20:35
endless successful stories and exits and yeah,
20:39
I definitely consider him my mentor and friend and you know partner
20:42
in business and and he's been awesome for twenty five years.
20:46
but yeah, it's that was a that was a great learning opportunity for for
20:51
me as well and a a great opportunity to to mingle with a crowd that that
20:55
I had really never grown I didn't grow up,
20:57
you know, in a wealthy environment.
20:59
I like that I tell people I'm the son of a wealthy school teacher and bookkeeper.
21:03
you know, my dad taught my dad taught in the inner city and you know we
21:07
we spent we spent half of our time in a in in a in a inner city and half
21:12
of our time you know in a kind of a weird suburb of Wilmington,
21:16
Delaware where we lived. So yeah that's what was next and boy
21:22
did that open up my eyes to the world.
21:25
How's that how's that? How did it open up your eyes?
21:28
Well, a lot of things. I mean,
21:29
first off, I was in nicer offices than I had ever been in before in my life.
21:33
and I was talking to people who made more money in a year than I
21:37
had made cumulative cumulatively to that point in my career.
21:41
~
21:43
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
21:44
so I think I share with you, you know,
21:48
a story when we first spoke,
21:50
You know, I once sat in one of my clients' offices and I said,
21:53
You know, Alan, I don't get it.
21:55
I said, You had all the money,
21:55
you have all the money in the world.
21:57
I said, What? Why do you keep working?
21:59
And this was I was still young at the time,
22:01
and he said to me, He goes, Jay,
22:02
let me tell you why I keep working.
22:04
He goes, Because I'm really good at business and I suck at golf.
22:07
And right, so it
22:08
Yeah.
22:10
it was a kind of at that point where the light went on and I realized that
22:16
And and believe me, this is super easy to say from my life's position today versus
22:20
where I was back when I heard this.
22:23
but you don't work for money.
22:24
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
22:25
Yeah, you don't
22:25
work for money. You work for purpose and the money comes.
22:28
So when you talk
22:29
Yeah, yeah.
22:30
about passion, I mean I'd replace passion with purpose.
22:33
Mm-hmm.
22:34
And you know, I I do think purpose-driven businesses succeed,
22:38
whereas passion can can fade away.
22:40
Because, you know, if you pr let's say you like fitness,
22:43
look like you're
22:43
Mm-hmm.
22:44
a fit guy, and you want to open up a fitness studio,
22:46
you could start actually hating fitness.
22:49
Yeah, yeah.
22:50
So that passion can can wane, but generally speaking,
22:54
purpose doesn't. And, you know,
22:56
his purpose was he had 400 employees that he felt an obligation
23:02
to continue the business on for,
23:04
and that he was extremely personally rewarded on a
23:10
day to day human level by the successes his.
23:15
bus his actions created inside of his business.
23:19
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense.
23:22
That makes sense. What what what do you think or what do you what do
23:26
you see as contributing the most to the success of of that of
23:30
the private jet business?
23:32
Now or back then?
23:34
Back then back then. like when you're growing from,
23:35
you know, zero to a billion.
23:36
~ yeah. listen,
23:38
I mean we basically Marquis Jet basically invented the jet card and
23:41
and and there were lots of
23:42
Who didn't want to take out fractional ownership and private travel at the time,
23:46
but they were willing to,
23:46
Mm-hmm.
23:47
you know, take the Starbucks debit card model and buy a certain number
23:52
of hours to quote unquote see if they liked it.
23:54
But ~
23:55
Yeah.
23:55
yeah, the convenience of a private jet if you have expendable cash is like
24:01
no other convenience that you'll ever experience.
24:04
And
24:05
Look, I mean, I've worked with some of the wealthiest people in the world
24:09
and even they are cautious of their allocation of their expenses.
24:16
So you won't catch them flying from New York to San Francisco privately,
24:21
but when they have to get from Nantucket to the Hamptons,
24:25
~
24:25
Mm-hmm.
24:26
you you you know you can you you you can
24:30
you can guess that that's something that's gonna make their life better
24:33
to not have to go from Nantucket to Boston or Nantucket to LaGuardia
24:39
and then LaGuardia to the the Hamptons by helicopter.
24:43
Like, no, I'm gonna go from the Hamptons to East Hampton over there.
24:46
So
24:47
Yeah yeah.
24:47
i you know, the utility of it is like is like no other,
24:52
but the cost is obviously you know,
24:55
I'd sit in I'd sit in front of somebody,
24:57
Rick, and
24:58
You can imagine I'm not I'm not an old guy at this point,
25:00
not old like I am now. but I'm I'm sitting across from somebody and they say to me,
25:05
like, well, what if I put six people or seven people on the plane and
25:09
and like I said to them allys I'm like you're not gonna put six people
25:13
or seven people on the plane. One.
25:15
Two, even if you put six people on the plane,
25:18
you're still paying the whole fare,
25:19
right? And three is
25:24
Cost per seat doesn't work. So if you're thinking about it from a cost
25:28
per seat perspective, like just tell me when you're ready to make your life more
25:33
convenient. So you just
25:35
Mm.
25:35
could never get there. It just financially like,
25:38
you know, I can go from Boston to LA round trip for say four hundred dollars.
25:44
I mean,
25:44
Mm-hmm.
25:45
how how you gonna get there? You know,
25:46
times seven's twenty eight hundred dollars if I take seven people.
25:49
Like, how you gonna get there on a
25:51
a private like you can't. So you just you know,
25:55
your time has to be well what do they say that time is you know,
26:00
time is the only thing that you can't buy more of.
26:03
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So what's what's the outcome of that business?
26:10
A Marquis sold to to to NetJets in two thousand and nine.
26:15
yeah, super successful. Highly successful business.
26:19
What and what was your
26:20
Well, I had left I my my role I
26:20
what was yeah.
26:22
had left I'd actually after about after almost five years I left Marquis
26:26
Jet to create to create my own business in the Villa Rental space and sort of,
26:32
you know, not sort of but take the leadership position again.
26:35
So that's two thousand six now.
26:37
And we weren't able to navigate successfully through the financial crisis
26:42
of eight nine.
26:45
And that business wound down. And from there I moved into a villa business.
26:50
I stayed in the luxury villa space and ended up being dispatched to build
26:56
a business on St. Bart's, where I was for almost off and on two years.
27:02
So
27:03
who's that business?
27:04
It's called Wimco SBH. It was a villa rental company and villa sales company
27:10
on the island on the island of St.
27:12
Barts Yeah.
27:12
So you just
27:13
built and sold villas, is that what that was?
27:15
We rented villas mostly and then resold villas.
27:19
We were realtors. we we but control it w had a had a had a high
27:25
ha high controlling interest of properties on the island.
27:29
~
27:30
huh.
27:31
so we were we were a definite we were a definite go-to from
27:34
a service perspective for St. Barts travelers
27:38
Okay, okay, excellent, excellent.
27:40
And what was next for you?
27:43
Yeah, next I so I I ended up leaving that business again.
27:46
One of the reasons I got out of the jet business,
27:49
it sounds crazy to get into the villa business,
27:51
is because of the travel and my kids were of an age that I wanted to spend more time
27:55
at home. So,
27:56
Yeah.
27:57
you know, being dispatched to St.
27:58
Barts as luxurious as it is, I often tell people being in paradise alone
28:03
is not paradise.
28:04
Yeah, yeah.
28:05
So, you
28:05
know, keep in mind I'm still married and have kids and they're young and you know,
28:09
being away was difficult. so I came back and that's basically when
28:15
Ink'd Stores, which is where I'm at now,
28:17
was was born. It it started as a fitness manufacturing company
28:24
of all things, where we decorated fitness equipment with corporate logos.
28:30
Uh-huh.
28:31
~
28:32
and through that experience, we learned how to decorate a lot of really hard
28:37
and difficult substrates like PVC and foam and plastics.
28:43
And all sorts of fabrics with stretch.
28:46
And the velocity in sales wasn't as we had hoped from a manufacturer's standpoint.
28:52
So I had the brilliant idea.
28:55
I said, geez, we know how to decorate things.
28:57
What if we just decorate things that people want to buy?
29:01
Yeah.
29:02
And so we pivoted the business to where we're at now,
29:04
which is ink stores. And the concept is we decorate everything with anything.
29:08
~
29:09
Mm-hmm.
29:10
I haven't figured out yet which I like better.
29:12
We decorate anything with everything,
29:14
or we decorate everything with anything.
29:16
So
29:16
Yeah.
29:17
but you get the gist. And now it's hats and t-shirts and hoodies
29:21
and anything under the sun, pens and water bottles and
29:26
I'd like to think we're a little more creative than than all of that,
29:29
but but that's the that's the core business and we've been at it now
29:32
for ten years successfully. And it's in in this iteration and yeah,
29:37
this is the this is the last stop.
29:39
Wow, wow. You said initially earlier in the inter in the interview when
29:43
you were introducing yourself,
29:44
you talked you said that you took the the ready fire aim approach
29:48
and now you've moved to the ready aim fire approach.
29:51
Tell us tell us a little bit a little bit about that.
29:55
Well, I just think when you're younger and you feel like you have a lot you know,
29:58
you have a lot more vinegar, let's say,
30:02
I think that you're willing to try things that when you're older you y you know,
30:06
you probably take a step back.
30:07
I like I just don't make decisions as fast as I do now.
30:11
I you've heard again, I'll just get into cliches again,
30:14
right? Which is, you know,
30:16
Hire slow, fire fast, for example,
30:18
Mm-hmm.
30:19
right? Used to be hire fast, fire slow,
30:21
right? Well, think of the discrepancy in hire fast and fire slow.
30:26
Like when do you think you're gonna get yourself in more trouble?
30:28
When you hire someone on a whim fast and then take a while to fire them
30:33
if they're not doing the job, or hire slow and if they're not doing the job,
30:37
fire fast.
30:39
There's real economic consequences in that cliche.
30:41
So,
30:42
Yeah, definitely.
30:43
and not only economic, but also like talk about wastes of time.
30:47
You talk about emotional energy that's absorbed by being with the wrong people
30:52
or putting the wrong people in the wrong seats.
30:54
so that's a real life example of something I've gotten a lot better with.
30:59
you know, I used to fall in love with candidates,
31:01
meaning like, man, they're gonna change that.
31:04
And it, you know, you have enough experience and you realize like.
31:07
The panacea is not walking through the door.
31:09
Like your problem today is going to be your problem tomorrow.
31:14
Somebody can help you, but it's going to take them time.
31:16
~
31:16
Yeah.
31:17
You know, nobody's an instant on.
31:19
And the truth, you know, again,
31:22
I it it's so it's just it's learned over time.
31:27
So
31:28
That to me is the most real life example of how I've how I've changed.
31:33
Like I just I'll give you an example,
31:35
I'll give you another example,
31:36
Rick. If you get an email, I know when I used to get emails or I used
31:40
to get text messages, I used
31:42
Mm-hmm.
31:42
to I used to feel an obligation to reply instantly.
31:49
Mm, mm.
31:49
Now I don't. No.
31:50
Not so much anymore. Yeah.
31:52
Look, I do sometimes,
31:54
Mm-hmm.
31:55
but I I like to tell my clients,
31:57
I said, listen, if you send me an email after hours,
32:00
I've read it. If I don't reply,
32:03
it means I'm thinking.
32:05
Mm okay. If I don't reply, I'm thinking.
32:07
It's true. I if
32:09
I don't reply, it means I'm thinking.
32:11
But yeah, of course, you know,
32:13
how about in twenty twenty six when somebody tells you they didn't get your email?
32:17
I mean, shut up. Like, what are you talking
32:18
Right.
32:20
about? You didn't get the email.
32:21
I mean, yeah, legitimately people glance through emails or they're
32:25
in meetings or but like,
32:27
Agree.
32:27
do you know anybody that doesn't have their phone within arm's length
32:34
at any time ever?
32:35
Mm-hmm.
32:36
Come on. 99% of the time that's a true statement.
32:41
So, like, I answer when I can,
32:44
but
32:45
Listen sometimes I need to like not answer.
32:48
Yeah, yeah, there is that. There is that.
32:50
Tell me something. over the over the years,
32:54
how how have you managed your teams?
32:56
Like just in terms of you know,
32:59
creating culture or you know, just your just your leadership.
33:03
Yeah, my leadership style, boy,
33:05
I struggle with this one. my leadership style is I hire competent people
33:09
and I get out of their way.
33:10
Yeah, I do too sometimes.
33:12
Till a bite you in the butt, right?
33:12
Toss what's that?
33:14
Till bite you in the butt, right?
33:16
Well, you know, it's a really it's a it's a hard style to have,
33:19
right? I mean when you take a hands off approach to your people,
33:22
you're putting a ton of trust in and putting a ton of trust in people is
33:26
is can be la I'll talk about emotional pain of being an entrepreneur
33:29
can be really difficult. Now I don't think that people want to be micromanaged.
33:33
I never liked being micromanaged.
33:35
~
33:36
Mm-hmm.
33:37
But yeah, I mean I I try to give people enough direction to take the ball
33:41
and run with it and do the best job that they can.
33:43
And I don't ever want to feel like I'm the pressure of that I'm
33:47
I'm somebody is feeling pressure from me because I feel like the what
33:53
we ask people to do has a intrinsic pressure in and of itself.
33:59
So
34:00
Yeah. Yeah.
34:02
that comes with
34:05
The way I look at it is everybody in my company can feel the pain,
34:08
or I can. And so I do.
34:11
So you just you just carry that weight.
34:12
I try to ~
34:13
I carry the weight.
34:14
yeah. I I I try to I d I do the same thing.
34:17
I f I find that to be important because I want people to be able to bring their
34:20
A game, you know, and I've even said to people just like look,
34:24
you're you're doing your thing.
34:25
Do you need support? Okay. Do
34:27
Yeah.
34:27
you are you spreading your and I ask them,
34:29
I ask my assistant sayers like,
34:30
are you spreading yourself too thin?
34:31
Because we're doing, you know,
34:33
these three, four, five things.
34:34
Because, you know, I find
34:38
And I'm I'm probably stricter than I am when I was or more I guess more aware
34:43
of it than I am when I was younger.
34:44
But you know, accountability for me is is really important.
34:49
It's like you say you're gonna do it,
34:50
I need you to do it. You know,
34:51
I need you to do it at the standard that that we agreed on,
34:54
you know, and we've we've got to we you know,
34:56
we can't get stuck, you know, in in certain scenarios because it just
35:00
it hurts the whole company. You know,
35:03
and so
35:03
Yeah.
35:03
there's that shared responsibility I think is important.
35:07
Yeah, th look for me the challenge on that is the you know,
35:11
sometimes sometimes the expectations that I have may not match
35:15
the expectations the person doing the work has.
35:18
and so I need to be cognizant of it.
35:20
But when you ask about what my management style is,
35:23
I I I would definitely say I have a mostly hands off management style
35:29
and I allow people the the room to
35:33
to succeed at what they're at what they're at where they're at
35:36
and what they're doing.
35:37
Love it. Are you intentional about creating company culture?
35:40
Is that something that's in your playbook?
35:43
I mean intentional in that look I want people to like coming to I mean
35:49
I love working. Most people don't.
35:51
Yeah.
35:52
Most people work because they either have to for financial reasons,
35:55
right?
35:56
Yeah.
35:58
or it you know, so I want people to like coming to work.
36:03
Like I want them to feel
36:05
You know, I know safe space and safe is always a word that,
36:08
you know, you like people can use and but I want people to feel like when they come
36:12
to the office or come to the shop,
36:14
like that you know, they're not gonna get their head bitten off or yelled at or
36:22
Talk down to like I I really want everybody to be our our email at at the office,
36:27
our our corporate email is Behappy @ inkdstores.com So our initial slogan when
36:33
we launched was we aim to be the best 10 minutes of your day.
36:36
Like I'm someone
36:38
Okay.
36:38
who has chased happiness my whole life.
36:40
And when you ask me like what what if you ask me what I want from my life,
36:45
I would tell you I just want to be happy.
36:47
And for the most part, I am. and it's one of my great superpowers,
36:51
is that I can have a terrible day today and I wake up tomorrow morning with hope.
36:55
So
36:56
Nice.
36:57
I'm, you know, that's who I am.
37:00
And so when you ask me if I'm intentional,
37:02
yeah, I'm intentionally me. Like I manage the company how I want to be managed.
37:09
Trust me, I've worked with all types.
37:11
I
37:12
Mm-hmm.
37:12
told you what, 22 jobs or something crazy like that.
37:16
Mm.
37:16
I've
37:17
had all types of managers.
37:19
Hm.
37:19
And I can assure you that I have taken the the the
37:25
w the best of the worst, the best hits of the worst,
37:30
and intentionally
37:32
Yeah.
37:32
programmed them out.
37:34
Mm. Yeah.
37:35
I had one manager,
37:36
I had one manager who used to like to go to Atlantic City
37:40
Mm-hmm.
37:42
and he would call me into his office.
37:44
Now mind you, I'm not in the office,
37:45
so he would call me on the phone and tell me to come to the office
37:49
Mm-hmm.
37:50
when he won so he could count his money in front of me.
37:53
Nice. Need people in the world like that.
37:56
It is.
37:57
I mean it's insane. That's
37:59
insane behavior.
38:01
You and he would do it under the guise of like,
38:03
I wanna talk to you.
38:06
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And just sit there.
38:08
Like that's nuts.
38:09
So like you just take someone's you like take hours out of somebody's life
38:13
for no reason. I
38:14
Yeah.
38:15
I I have no interest in playing those games.
38:17
I I just don't play any games.
38:18
Like we have zero I'm in a zero games environment.
38:21
There are no
38:22
Yeah.
38:23
games where we play. Like it's it doesn't exist.
38:26
I'll give you an example. So I'll go in on Monday morning,
38:30
for example,
38:32
Mm-hmm.
38:33
and my team will be
38:34
We start the day, the summer we start at eight,
38:37
and the winter we start at nine.
38:38
I'll go in at nine o'clock, let's say nine o'clock,
38:40
and from nine until nine thirty,
38:42
I'll just hear people I'm in my office working and I'll just hear people laughing
38:46
and hooting and hollering. And I say to myself,
38:49
like, that's a half hour that I have people not working,
38:53
right? And so I'll say to myself,
38:55
Okay, here's the choice. All the people who
39:00
are in there talking and laughing and having a good time,
39:02
like each other, and they're catching up on their weekend together.
39:07
Mm-hmm.
39:08
Or you get a half hour's more work.
39:09
Now, who do you think's gonna do a better job at their job?
39:15
The person who, if I walk in there and say,
39:17
Hey, let's get to work, it's enough talk.
39:21
Or I shut my mouth, I do what I'm doing,
39:25
and I listen to them laugh and enjoy each other's company.
39:29
Rick,
39:30
Mm, mm.
39:31
like, you know what I mean? Penny wise,
39:33
pound foolish? Like
39:36
You know, one way I win, one what I'm gonna lose if I try to win.
39:41
Like it makes no sense. So you ask about the old J,
39:46
the new J, or the old, you know,
39:48
when I was younger versus when I'm older.
39:50
Like the younger me, it would have irritated to no end.
39:54
Now I can appreciate what it is.
39:56
Like these people that work at my company like each other.
40:00
Mm-hmm.
40:02
That's a gift. Like every company doesn't have that.
40:06
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
40:07
So
40:07
I want to encourage it. I want to foster it.
40:10
And you know what? I've watched these people bust their butt when they've needed
40:15
to get stuff out. So, like, I think it brings out peak performance.
40:20
And I'm not a, you know, we're not a football team.
40:23
You know, we print t-shirts and embroider hoodies.
40:25
I mean, you know, take a breath.
40:27
Don't take yourself so serious.
40:29
Yeah. Yeah.
40:30
It's serious.
40:31
We take our jobs serious. But you know,
40:34
they're younger, they're artists,
40:36
they it's we spend a lot of time together all week.
40:39
That's beautiful culture. I mean I I I love that.
40:41
I love that. I mean they're they're they're they're
40:43
Thanks.
40:43
they're a community, you know.
40:45
~ and that
40:45
Feels that way.
40:46
works.
40:48
Feels that way.
40:49
Yep. Yeah, I the question I always love to love to ask folks,
40:54
especially folks like you, is,
40:56
you know, as an entrepreneur, I mean we've always have,
40:58
you know, some sort of idea of what winning looks like somewhere down the road.
41:02
And the challenge that we have sometimes is you know,
41:06
maintaining that relentless pursuit.
41:07
You know, and so my question for you is,
41:09
you know, what would you recommend or what would you suggest to our audience?
41:13
To help them, to guide them in maintaining that relentless pursuit.
41:17
I don't know if you're gonna like my answer.
41:20
Go for it.
41:21
I think you either have it or you don't.
41:24
Mm, yeah. Yeah. You wanna dig into that little more?
41:29
Yeah, I just think it's like
41:31
It's hard for me to answer because I have it.
41:33
Right? And
41:34
Mm-hmm.
41:34
I've always had it. Like I've always been a guy who's been in excess and run,
41:39
you know, hit the more button on everything I've done.
41:41
I've always
41:42
Yeah.
41:43
been super driven. Like you no one's ever had to wake me up for to work.
41:48
No one's ever had to push me for work.
41:50
Yeah, I just think like you either have that relentless desire to succeed
41:54
or you don't.
41:56
There's so many opportun so many opportunities that are out there to
41:59
to to get ahead.
42:02
You know, I I think some people can have it and get lost and lose their
42:06
way or get distracted by life and their circumstances.
42:10
And that's definitely a challenge.
42:12
And that could be, you know, anything.
42:14
It could be drugs, it could be alcohol,
42:16
it could be a bad relationship,
42:18
it could be a family member could be ill that they,
42:21
you know, are you know, acquiesce their own personal
42:26
well being for you know a time period to to take care of them,
42:30
you know, out of you know out out of their control,
42:34
but in their control and and you know doing the very humanitarian type thing.
42:38
but yeah I think generally speaking we are who we are and you know I just I've never
42:45
really been an excuse maker. I've been someone who's taken it on the chin and
42:51
You know, when I get kicked I get back up and yeah,
42:55
it's happened a lot. I mean I've no one's like to say no one's failed more than me.
42:58
but you know, I'm a
42:58
Yeah, yeah.
43:00
I'm a lifelong I'm a lifelong failure,
43:02
right? Of the I've had more people say no to me than than I could fight
43:08
it fight a dollar for every no,
43:10
right? Forget it. So
43:11
Yeah, I just think like this is one of those where you have to like really
43:15
get deep down and and define who you are.
43:18
And I think sometimes like when you talk about entrepreneurship,
43:21
I think a lot of people start something and you know,
43:24
maybe they haven't faced adversity in their life and you know the the
43:27
the number one thing that you could be with yourself is honest.
43:30
Who you are, what you're good at,
43:32
what you're great at, what you're not great at.
43:35
And you know, sometimes people get into situations because they don't have that
43:39
honest, you know, like conversation with themselves of what's gonna happen when
43:44
things don't go the way I want or
43:46
you know, can they bounce back from it and who they really are and sometimes,
43:52
you know, look at look at your past.
43:54
So I I I don't mean to be discrediting or downplaying it towards folks,
43:58
but you know, some people bite off more than they can chew at the from
44:01
the beginning and shouldn't be entrepreneurs.
44:05
Mm.
44:07
just like by the way, just like people shouldn't be employees.
44:10
Mm, yeah.
44:11
You know, if you
44:11
find yourself working till ten if you're working for another company,
44:14
if you're working for somebody else and you're working every day from eight
44:17
in the morning until ten PM at night,
44:19
like at some point maybe you should be working for you.
44:23
So the i the knife cuts both ways.
44:26
It's yeah, that's how I
44:29
That's how I c I classify it. I'm not one of these guys who I don't
44:34
I don't believe I don't believe it's a learned behavior.
44:38
I I believe that you are or you aren't.
44:40
And that's that's upbringing type stuff.
44:44
That's that's black couch stuff.
44:47
couch stuff, the therapist's office.
44:50
Yeah, yeah,
44:51
yeah, yeah. so tell me something.
44:53
If our audience wants to get in touch with you,
44:55
what's the best way to do that?
44:57
Yeah, easiest is email at inkdstores.com.
44:59
It's I-n-k-d s t-o-r-e-s dot com.
45:02
I'm also on LinkedIn. I try to post almost every day.
45:05
and it's all real content I write,
45:08
not or video, not not AI.
45:11
I'm not a I like AI, but yeah,
45:15
I got a lot to say, so I don't use AI as much as I see others.
45:20
Yeah, Awesome. Awesome. Jay, this has been a great show.
45:22
Thank you so much.
45:24
Rick, pleasure. Enjoyed the time visit.
45:28
Awesome, awesome. And folks, thank you so much for watching and listening
45:31
to another episode of the Relentless Pursuit of Winning Podcast.
45:33
We'll catch you next time.