Latest / Marketing Shed / Was Dolly Parton the best at personal branding?

Transcript

Was Dolly Parton the best at personal branding? · Marketing Shed

• Warren Fiveash: Good morning, Paul. How are you today? Paul Duxbury: I'm very, very well, thank you, Warren. Very well indeed. Yes. I'm a bit I'm bit sad because summer summer is gone. Now, I mean you you're only sad if you're missing something, and it has been brilliant. And I know it's not over yet. It's still August. but I'm sad for those super hot days and you know being in the garden Eight o'clock when it was light and all that good stuff. But but I'm not really sad, you know, I'm just just you know being nostalgic for a couple Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: of weeks ago and thinking how marvelous has it been. Yeah, and how are you? Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Yeah, no, don't know what you mean. It I notice the nights have drawn in a bit and you know it's kinda getting darker like eight o'clock and y yeah, you think back, you're Paul Duxbury: Mm-hmm. Warren Fiveash: sitting out in the garden probably around that time. but I think you know, there's always one last hour of summer, isn't there? So I'm hoping like we get a little bit of a heat wave in September. You never know. I don't think it's Paul Duxbury: Yes. Warren Fiveash: I reckon we'll get another one. I can't I think it's gonna give us one final one final hurrah. It has been good. Right. I think Paul Duxbury: Fingers crossed. Warren Fiveash: we take it for granted, don't you? I think we've taken it Paul Duxbury: Yes. Warren Fiveash: for granted. Well next summer could be a washout for all we know. So But Paul Duxbury: You are you're do you're right. Yes, that is exactly right. Celebrate what we've had. yes. Warren Fiveash: I've been okay. I've been ill actually the last week or so. So I haven't I'm I haven't been on top top form. but I'm in recovery now so that's good. And all the better for being here. Paul Duxbury: good, good. And I've been busy, you know. I'm sorry, I'm sorry you haven't been a hundred percent, but glad you're back in action. I have been, I've been fully, fully fit, but I've been kind of getting back into things. you know, there's always that idea in my head that things start in September. They don't really start until middle of September, but but one has to prepare. And so I've been sort of just just making sure that things are set up, projects are running in good shape. And things are back on track for for action in September. And I've just started training again, running training, because I've got I've got a marathon in April and I I I took two weeks off when I didn't run a well, I know I did run a bit, but but hardly ran at all. and now I'm back in the the training pattern, which is which is quite good and has led actually, if sorry, I'm hijacking our conversation, but Warren Fiveash: No, love it. Paul Duxbury: has led me to A very interesting discovery because 'cause I'm running more now, again, I'm back in the baked goods aisle at my local supermarket. Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: And guess guess what the latest innovation is within the baked goods aisle? Warren Fiveash: Is that what we spoke about before? Paul Duxbury: No Warren Fiveash: No. I don't I can't I couldn't I couldn't tell you. Paul Duxbury: Well, could I tempt you with a crumpet, but not just any crumpet. This is the the team at Warburton's who have introduced pizza crumpets. Warren Fiveash: Pizza crumpets. I'm surprised that's not been invented before actually. Paul Duxbury: Well, exactly. These you know, sometimes these ideas are staring us in the face. So so they they the marketing team there, I'll give them credit. who knows what how it works in Warburton's. Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: but they've clearly thought, well, how can we how can we sell more crumpets? And one way of doing that is to, I guess, increase the number of occasions on which one might consider consuming a crumpit. So crumpets obviously kind of fit with breakfast, Warren Fiveash: Yeah, yeah. Paul Duxbury: but how about for dinner? Your pizza crumpets, stick some cheese and tomato on top, Warren Fiveash: Not that. Paul Duxbury: bingo. You've got you've got a pizza. You've got a pizza. It's just you know Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Yeah. That's genius. You know what? Crumpet is one of those things. You can have it at breakfast, but you can also have it if say you've had a big lunch out and you don't want a big dinner. It's one of those things you just stick in the toaster and you have. And actually pizza crumpets, it's like the perfect solution, right? Paul Duxbury: Yeah. Yeah. And why? A why? Why do you need all this effort to make a pizza? You've got to take it out of the pack. You've got to Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: stick it in the oven. You've got to wait at least 15 minutes plus 15 minutes to warm up the oven. Whereas pizza crumpets, you're talking four minutes, flash to bang, bingo. You know, or maybe Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Yeah. Paul Duxbury: 10 minutes under the grill. So so you know it's It's instant gratification. I I'm I'm all over it. Warren Fiveash: How how big are the crumb are the same size crumb pits, but just pizza, yeah? Paul Duxbury: Yeah, they look exact well, this is the only thing they could I think they could have done this better. They are exactly the same as regular crumpets, but a bit more orange. Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: And when you look at the ingredients to say what makes them pizza crumpets, it's it's one one line that says pizza flavouring. And I Warren Fiveash: Right. Paul Duxbury: I just think if they could have found a way just to tweak the recipe to make it more pizzerish, I don't know if there's something they could have done with the with the The dough, I don't know. that would have been great. But I but I appreciate that they're looking to leverage their existing production line and I so I assume chucking a packet of pizza flavoring in the vat is you know, pretty straightforward. Warren Fiveash: Well. Paul Duxbury: so yeah, good for them. Good for them. Warren Fiveash: I love that. Love that. Well, do you know what? Next shop up next shop idea I'm gonna be keeping an eye out for those and 'cause me and my wife love a crumpit and my kids love crumpets so I think they will go down a storm in the five ash household. Paul Duxbury: Yeah. Yeah. So how about yourself? Apart from being in recovery from being poorly, what what you up to? Warren Fiveash: well, a couple of things actually. So don't know if did you see the Mar did you see the Mars bar that was discovered thirty five years ago? Paul Duxbury: I I saw briefly, yeah, yeah, I did I I I I sort of saw it come up on a feed. I didn't really dig into it 'cause I think I was on a bicycle somewhere at the time. What what was Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: it all about? Warren Fiveash: So they found an a a Mars bar from I think it was thirty five years ago, which was much bigger in size than the Mars bars of today. Don't ask me the exact sizes, but a lot bigger, substantially bigger. And I think people have just been horrified by the fact that things have got smaller and more expensive. And actually I was standing in a shop yesterday, won't say which one. They're all the same, I suppose, in terms of size of the snacks that they've got now, but it it is remarkable how small, much smaller a lot of these products have got. When you look at them, you stand Paul Duxbury: Mm. Warren Fiveash: back, you look at the sweet aisle, and you think, my God, they really have got a lot smaller and they're probably the same price in relative terms to what they were sort of 20, 30 years ago. So yeah, it's just it's just quite alarming. I bet Mars never banked on the fact that someone would keep a Mars bar for 35 years. So that you could compare Paul Duxbury: Well, yes, I think that's that's that's probably reasonable sort of assumption that that that Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: that would wouldn't happen. But equally I you know, who knows what people have got stashed away. But do you know the the smaller things is in line with this there's so much of these GLP one weight loss drugs going around that I think people are gonna Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Yeah. That's true. Paul Duxbury: want to have smaller portions. Warren Fiveash: Yeah, yeah. Do you know what? there is an argument to be made that is it a bad thing obviously we'd all say the value maybe of the products versus the size isn't quite right. But is it a bad thing that these things are smaller if we're all the things? Paul Duxbury: Well, if you said to I'm sure if you said to a health professional, Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: in thirty years time we want things that are not necessarily that good for your health to be more expensive and sold in smaller quantities, they'd go, Yeah, there we'll have we'll have that. So so maybe Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: you know, having a smaller quantity of a treat is a good thing. Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Yeah. On the flip side of that, I did see that Coke Coca Co Coca Cola or a Coke brand. other Coke brands are available. have got a mega a mega can now. So like a pint can you can get. Paul Duxbury: really? Warren Fiveash: On the flip side of that. Yeah. So so yeah, so they're expanding their range, probably still pricey, but yeah. Paul Duxbury: Yeah. Warren Fiveash: Interesting. But you know, there's all these kind of videos on YouTube going around like, you know, this is the end of capitalism, as you know, all these doom mongering around the cut the size of a Mars bar, I think which is quite funny. I just think it's the way things are Paul Duxbury: Yes, yes, agreed. Yeah. Warren Fiveash: at the moment. you talked about the end of consumerism before, haven't you? So maybe it is a a nod to that. But the other thing, the other thing I want to talk about, and I'm jumping on the bandwagon a little bit here, but obviously it's really sad. Obviously Dolly Parton died this week, didn't she? and Obviously everyone's warning there. I didn't I'm bit very Paul Duxbury: Yes, very sad. Yeah. Warren Fiveash: sad because not just a obviously great at her what she does as a musician, but San you know, sounded like a great human being and did loads of great, great work. but I you know I was watch I watched the documentary on her last time. So I don't I confess I didn't know loads about her. my wife was a big fan. but fascinating story, and also it just got me thinking, she Just knew I've never seen, I don't think, an individual that knew their personal brand as well as Dolly Parton did, and was so confident in it. And she's probably a great example of how to live, if you're building a personal brand, how to how to do it, because she just knew exactly who she was, was confident in it, doubled down on it, never wavered from it throughout her whole career. She actually wasn't an overnight success. She it took years to get. the success she got, but that came from her just being really consistent in who she was and her approach that, you know, the look she had was obviously very consistent over a number of years. Obviously her product was very good. And so obviously that gets found out in the end because people want good product, but you know, good music. but she just knew who she was. And for example as an example, she made decisions around who she was. in a very clear and very clear and decisive way. So if you think about it from a brand positioning point of view, brand positioning should, you know, you should make be able to make decisions off the back of that. the you know, yes or no to things based on who you who you are and and w and where you see your position in the market. And she knew when to say no to things and she knew when to say yes to things. And, you know, if you think about this T V show she picked to kind of increase awareness of who she was, Paul Duxbury: Mm. Warren Fiveash: the mu you know, the country market, and then and then making decisions around whether she business decisions around whether she gave the rights of her music away to people like Elvis. So I will always love you. That was a song that she wrote, obviously, and performed and was very successful. Could have she got approached by Elvis to sing who wanted to sing that song, could have but he wanted the rights to the song, essentially, and she wasn't prepared to do that because very much about empowering herself and Paul Duxbury: Yeah. Warren Fiveash: you know having having ownership of those things so and and then made the decision years later to give it to Whitney which was the right call by the looks of it. So yeah, this Paul Duxbury: Yes, yes. Warren Fiveash: way took over I just think brilliant woman but also brilliant brilliant marketeer. Paul Duxbury: I agree. And and and how would you compare her to say Madonna, who famously has gone through many reinventions over the years? Warren Fiveash: Yeah, that's a really good question. I mean I suppose neither is she's not wrong in her approach, Madonna, because she's been very successful. But maybe maybe Donna Parton's unique in the fact that she's universally liked and loved, because not many people are. Whereas you would say Paul Duxbury: Yeah. Warren Fiveash: maybe Madonna does split more of an opinion, but that is part of her brand. Paul Duxbury: Yes, it's more controversial. Warren Fiveash: Yeah, controversial, that is part of who she is. And so she has taken many forms over the year, but almost that kind of reinvention is part of who she is. So she is very good at it too. but maybe has lost you know, if you're if that is your brand and you reinvent, there is a danger. And there probably have been times where that reinvention hasn't worked. So there's a Paul Duxbury: Yeah, mean Madonna seems to have kept in the in the in the top of the public consciousness. I mean, she was in the Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: the the World Cup final show, wasn't she? Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Yeah. Paul Duxbury: and whether she's still trading off the success earlier in her career, I guess to an extent. But it's interesting how you're right, Dolly Parton has kind of been the same person throughout her career. Madonna Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: has reinvented herself, but of course has always been literally the same person but but is sort of shown different sides. And I suppose it partly goes down to the genre of music, maybe, because Country and Western is more Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: enduring, whereas Madonna's gone for pop music, which does does fade. Warren Fiveash: Yeah, I think that's a good that is a gift one. So there probably is nuance around it. You there's an element of the Paul Duxbury: Mm. Warren Fiveash: the the music genre that Dolly Partons in does. Paul Duxbury: Yeah. Well talking about talking about music, I wanted to talk to you about the BBC Proms. Warren Fiveash: Yeah, pretty Yeah. Paul Duxbury: and I went last night, I went to Warren Fiveash: Thank you. Paul Duxbury: the Ultimate Calm Late Night Prom. Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: Are you familiar with BBC Radio three Unwind? Warren Fiveash: I'm not actually. No, I'm not. It's new ones and let's go. Sounds good though. Paul Duxbury: Well, you should be one. You should be. Shame on you. No. Ha. so so BBC Radio Three Unwind is a digital only channel that was launched, I think, two years ago. Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: and it it it focuses on ambient soundscape music, which is a mix up of classical and quite a lot of sort of synthesizers and voice music and is kind of in this sort of well-being meditation space. And the prom was called Ultimate Calm because one of the shows on BBC Radio 3 Unwind is called Ultimate Calm. and I thought it's a brilliant it's a brilliant show. I love the channel. I love the yeah I love the channel. And thought it's a brilliant example of small big marketing. so small marketing, somebody or probably a team within Radio 3, a few years ago clearly identified there's a group of people, me included, who quite like that sort of soundscapy ambient music. but but we're only getting the ability to listen to it every now and again through the occasional show. Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Yeah. Paul Duxbury: and then the big is is is how the marketing team then put that offer together. So they created the channel, they created the shows, they created the activation through things like the Ultimate Calm prom and of course the branding and all the rest of it. but I think it's a brilliant way of Of how Radio Three has grown their listenership. I I I assume, I haven't seen the numbers, but I Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: assume they've grown grown their listenership by listening to their audience and being able to find different ways of delivering Radio three to suit their needs. What a what a great job. Warren Fiveash: I think you've got to give them a bit of credit there and actually you noticed the BBC kind of following what commercial radio stations are doing in that they create these subset kind of stations or spin-offs of their main stations that are way more focused on genre, right? So you you've got the perfect example there of the Calm one, but then you've got BBC Radio Six Indy now and you've got BBC Radio Six, I think there's other iterations of it. Paul Duxbury: Yeah, yeah. Warren Fiveash: Similar to absolute nineties, absolute seventies. and it is a way of growing your listenership if you want to bring in people with specific genres and because you can you could you know, in the day and age we live in, you can access whatever you want according to the your interest, right? So BBC have got to adapt to that. So I think, yeah, clever move, smart move. And actually BBC probably don't get a lot of credit for the fact that their listenership is still really high. So they're Paul Duxbury: Mm. Warren Fiveash: doing something right. you know, as Paul Duxbury: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Warren Fiveash: big as it was ten, fifteen years ago, but it's in relative terms compared to a lot of people, it's still in the millions of listeners for a lot of Paul Duxbury: Yeah, and and what they've done brilliantly is they've they've not said, well, how do we get more people to listen to Radio Three as it exists today? They Warren Fiveash: Mm. Paul Duxbury: said, How do we take what Radio Three does and serve a bigger audience, serve more needs? Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Yeah. Paul Duxbury: and they've done that, I guess, by taking a little tiny bit of what Radio Three covered and expanding it into Radio Three Unwind and everything that has to offer. So Big Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: small great, great work. Warren Fiveash: Love that, Paul. Love that. and how was the problem? You said you went last night, did you? Paul Duxbury: I went last night, yeah, and it was a late night thing. So so I was Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Yeah. Paul Duxbury: it was a late night, but it was worth it because it's a special atmosphere when you go when you go to a a concert that starts at ten fifteen, finishes just shy of midnight, it's it's it's a special Warren Fiveash: Get home, okay. Paul Duxbury: special occasion. Yeah. Yeah. Warren Fiveash: There's a tra the trains were still running. Paul Duxbury: well fortunately, do you know what? I I was able to drive into central London Warren Fiveash: Well. Paul Duxbury: and I was with my partner and we w got a lovely meal. We then we then drove from Sloan Square to near the Albert Hall, parked within a hundred yards of the Albert Hall. And Bob's your uncle. How good is that? Warren Fiveash: Great. Great. Sounds lovely. I thought you seemed chilled today. I thought you seemed un unwound. Paul Duxbury: Yeah. So tell me what what else do you want to share today? Warren Fiveash: well in terms of what's coming up, I think so what am I doing this week, Paul? So I think you alluded to you alluded to it earlier. September is the month when the show goes back on the road, right? So Paul Duxbury: Yeah, for sure. Warren Fiveash: August has been trying to keep keep the show on the road, keep things moving as possible as as as as much as you possibly can. September is where I've been setting up all the meetings and reconnecting with people. So there's a lot of prepping for the workshops and getting things signed off that we need to get signed off over the next month. So it's a big month September. A big month. So a lot of prep for that. Yeah. Paul Duxbury: Yes. Big month. Big month. Well, I've got I've got some interesting stuff happening in September. I'm developing some ideas about a new learning solution or development offer. Do you remember, Warren? You're a senior marketer now. do you remember when you made that move from being a sort of brand manager, marketing manager level to the head of brand? Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: Brand director level. Warren Fiveash: I can remember it well. Yeah, I can remember it really well. Paul Duxbury: And how we how easy was that for you to do? P you you're probably gonna say easy 'cause you're you're good at what you do. Warren Fiveash: No, no, no, no, no, not at all. I don't want to use the cliche kind of imposter syndrome, but you do there is an element of you are winging it a little bit. And you know, there were things I just I was kind of didn't know what I was doing, if I'm honest. So there is an element of learning on the job. No one trains you how to be ahead of. It's just you Yeah. You're gonna do it. Paul Duxbury: Well, nobody trains you at the moment. But you see, what what I'm 'cause I'm I'm I'm I'm thinking back to when when I experienced the same as you. And you're right, there was no sort of manual. You you you you you mainly looked at your your new peers. but it occurs to me that that my recollection is I didn't have to get much better, if better at all, at marketing the discipline. I didn't have to learn any Warren Fiveash: no. Paul Duxbury: new marketing professional skills. Warren Fiveash: No. Paul Duxbury: It was all about the mindset of being a senior Warren Fiveash: Mm. Paul Duxbury: leader with a marketing hat on. Was was that was Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: that your experience too? Warren Fiveash: A hundred percent yeah, you've hit the nail in the head. I think the the it wasn't a jump in expertise, it was a jump in all the things that come with being a head of department. and you like you said the mindset. So when that as a marketing manager in the you're in the weeds, you're doing the doing. As a head of, you've got to be taking more of a step back, and that is hard. and doing more the strategic work, thinking And as someone who was always naturally probably more of a doer when I was younger and kind of trying to get stuff done and the mindset she thought was quite hard. Paul Duxbury: Yeah, I think so. I mean, I I was I was just I've got a list over here that I've been looking at. So I had things like you you you go from answering questions to asking the questions, you go Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Yeah. Paul Duxbury: from controlling work and budgets for that matter to setting direction. You go Warren Fiveash: Mm. Paul Duxbury: from you being the personal expert to you exercising judgment. and most of all You're creating the the environment or the conditions for people to deliver their best work. So so I'm gonna look at that. I'm gonna look at capturing the essence of that, distilling it, and then finding a way to share that with people who are facing the challenges we faced earlier in our careers, so that they can get get moving quicker and be more successful earlier as they they move into senior marketing leadership Warren Fiveash: know what think Paul Duxbury: roles. Warren Fiveash: I think that's a really I think it's a really good shout because I do think I do think that is a problem, actually. I don't you know, now you've said it, I think I could count, you know, there's loads of people that would benefit from that Paul. Every Paul Duxbury: yeah. Warren Fiveash: single person I know they've all had to kind of learn on a job and it probably taken years to really learn and all those things you just said. Paul Duxbury: Yeah. Yeah. And I don't and I don't think it's a sort of you know, three month program. It could be, but but very few people have the the the the luxury of time or or funds to do that. I think it's a sort of it's a day-long mindset change session, giving people the tools to then develop and apply those skills themselves afterwards. and to give people a just a little bit of a recipe. for how to make that jump across quite a bri a big a big divide between marketing management and marketing leadership. Warren Fiveash: Yeah, and it's I suppose it's stepping stones giving yourself time to make the change, right? 'Cause it does take a bit of time. And having the Paul Duxbury: Yeah. Yeah. yeah. Warren Fiveash: having a bit of a toolkit to work to. yeah, I love that. Paul Duxbury: Yeah. Yeah. Good. Well, I shall keep you posted on that. That's the plan for the week ahead. And I'm also I'm going to go to Switzerland. end of next week. I'm doing some lovely training, helping some people with their strategic Warren Fiveash: That's Barzo. Paul Duxbury: presence. That's going to be fun. Back in back in Basel, that's going to be exciting. so I think Warren Fiveash: Yeah. I'll take it. Paul Duxbury: I may be talking to you from from Switzerland or maybe France. I'm going to France afterwards. So I might talk to you from France next week or the week after. Warren Fiveash: fancy. can you make sure you've got a scenic background behind you, Paul, and you Paul Duxbury: yes, I will see what I can arrange. I will talk to the local board and see what they wish to promote at that point in time. Warren Fiveash: I need to up my background. Need to get out of the shed next time, hope maybe. Paul Duxbury: Yeah, that well no, no, no, no, no. The look look it the shed is the name. We've we've got Warren Fiveash: Yeah. Paul Duxbury: to be in the shed or or somewhere exotic. So so unless it's exotic, stay in the shed, mate. Warren Fiveash: That's the name, marketing's the game, right? Paul Duxbury: Yeah. Okay. Warren Fiveash: Cool. brilliant. Well, good to see you, Paul. And yeah, look forward to catching up with you next time. Paul Duxbury: Likewise, glad you are almost back to a hundred percent. Take care, mate. Warren Fiveash: It's both.