Latest / The b.reathe Blueprint Podcast / Burnout Is for Weak People
Transcript
- Katie Harvey: Welcome to the b.reathe Conversations. This series explores how people operate as responsibility, ambition and pressure grow over time. These are not burnout stories and they're not about fixing anything. They're calm, honest conversations about awareness, capacity and what helps performance last. Today we're joined by a special guest. We have got Marion, how are you? Marion Neggers: Yes, I'm fine. Thank you. Thank you for the invitation. Katie Harvey: You're welcome. Thank you so much for being here. Why don't we start with a little introduction about who you are and what you do? Marion Neggers: Yeah, that's fine. My name is Marion as you can hear on my accent. I'm not from the UK. I live in the Netherlands ⁓ I'm a property investor in the UK helping a lot of Dutch investors to the UK property market, which is ⁓ Yeah, quite interesting and gives me a lot of energy ⁓ Personal I live in the south of the Netherlands ⁓ With my family, my kids are already grown. They have their own families. I am a grandma for a lot of years now, which is very, very enjoying. The little ones give me a lot of pleasure and energy, is nice. My background, I was in the banking industry for quite a long time. ⁓ built a lot of teams, which I really, really love. I love people much more than I love the numbers. And maybe that's why I'm in property because property is also people's business, which I really, really like. ⁓ After banking industry, I started my own ⁓ coaching and training ⁓ office in the Netherlands, ⁓ coached and trained a lot of management teams and directors of all kinds of companies, which was very, very nice because you always can look inside other ⁓ buildings and other enterprises, which was very, very nice. ⁓ Yeah, so always interesting people. Katie Harvey: Amazing. So your energy clearly comes from working with and around other people. How did you transition from banking into property? What happened there? Marion Neggers: Oh, that's a funny story. That's a funny story. everybody talks, thought that I was completely crazy because I started in property in 2015. I was the first Dutch girl that was in property in the UK. So I didn't know anything. I only went to London once for shopping. So tick that box off because As a girl, you once in your life, you need to go shopping in London. So I did that. And that was it. I didn't know anybody in the UK. I coached a company in the USA and ⁓ I met a guy who was in property. It's a funny story. And then he said, why aren't you in property? I said, that's very... Clear because I don't have a million in the bank and he said oh, but you don't need money to go into property and I said Yeah, I think you do and he said no no no you can use OPM never heard of OPM and OPM stood for other people's money So he explained how he did it and and I was listening and I was thought oh my god If it is this simple why isn't everybody doing it and then he told me listen if nobody tells you how it works. You don't know and then you're not doing it. So I dare you find a property market where the rental ⁓ income comparing to the housing prices is high and where you can evict a tenant if he's not paying. So the Netherlands was a difficult market then. So I looked at other places and yeah, the UK came up and that's how I started. Katie Harvey: Amazing. And how long did it take before you were full time in the property? Marion Neggers: ⁓ that took quite a while because there's also on one side there's business and on the other side there's your personal life. And my personal life was, ⁓ yeah, we had a very big ⁓ accident happening. My husband had a car accident and we had our own businesses. We both had our own business. And when he yeah, ⁓ crashed with his car, He couldn't work, so he lost his company. I just started a new company, so there wasn't that much money. So I had to ⁓ build it up from scratch again ⁓ with somebody that I had to take care of, my husband. So yeah, those were tough times. And then I realized I don't have a pension, but I still got a small portfolio of properties in the UK. So I thought, know what they could be my pension and then I started again and bought some new properties with a business partner. Katie Harvey: That must have been a really difficult time, having to manage work, family life, all of a sudden becoming a caregiver as well. How did you manage all of that? That must have been a real big change. Marion Neggers: ⁓ my God, yes, yes it was. It was. yeah, we're lucky because he's doing quite all right now, but the first six years they were just hell because there was no money. Because when you have your own business and from one day to another, the business is completely gone because you are the business. So there was no money, but... You know, you have to pay your mortgages and you have to pay for your car and all your daily expenses go on. So yeah, and I ⁓ managed and then again, I realized we are so much stronger than we think we are. Yeah. Katie Harvey: 100 % and also I bet the fact that you had each other made a huge difference to going through all of that. Marion Neggers: Yeah, I think love is the most strong emotion there is. Yeah, and I'm a lucky girl, you know, so I found the love of my life, which is pretty amazing. Katie Harvey: Yeah, it definitely makes a difference when you do and they do say love is the strongest drug. it gets you through all sorts of pain and gets you through all the lows in life. I'm glad that you're kind of out of the tricky side of it now and that you're being able to enjoy it and that you've made a lot of progress in your property stuff. From what I know now, you're doing very well. Marion Neggers: It is. Yeah. Yes. Katie Harvey: And obviously your background in banking, that is very different to the structure of working for yourself, especially as ⁓ a people person, we call it, with blazes, dynamos, the wealth dynamics. We could be quite scattered. We're not necessarily good at organizing, not very good at controlling our own day. So how did you transition from having a place to go to work to all of a sudden? running your own calendar. Marion Neggers: That was very difficult. But I learned a lot when I was in the banking industry. what I did and what my talent was building teams and selecting the right people for the right place. And I have a lot of blaze energy, which ⁓ the other side of that is I was in one bank branch ⁓ managing for three years, three and a half years, and then I got bored because then the team was ready and I got free time, you know, and then two things could happen. The best thing was I'm going to another branch with a lot of noise in it and the team that doesn't work, so they put me there, so build it up again, which was really, really nice. And if there wasn't ⁓ another place, you know, places gonna screw up things, you know, to keep it exciting and which that was not so good. No. Katie Harvey: No, but you, I remember the other day you said that you love problems. Marion Neggers: ⁓ yeah, yeah, yeah, I love problems, yeah. And I had, you know what, I had quite a lot of problems in my life, yeah. Yeah, yeah. ⁓ yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Katie Harvey: But you always solve them. You're a magician. So now that you are full-time property, what does your day-to-day life look like? Marion Neggers: ⁓ yeah, I need to organize some, some things. So, ⁓ when I was in my own coaching and training business, I had an amazing office manager. She was, she was completely steel energy, you know, so when I came with creative things, she just took it out of my hands, organized it and then, and then it was all done. ⁓ when I started in property, I didn't have that. office manager. So now I'm working with a VA and I'm now busy selecting a second VA because otherwise I am writing reports or going after tenants because it could be a noisy business and that's not what I want. Katie Harvey: No, definitely not. And it's quite hard to let go though, isn't it? And hard to trust other people. You've obviously got experience managing other teams, which is an incredible skill and trait to have. But when it's your own business, it's like your baby, isn't it? You find it little bit harder to pass things over. Marion Neggers: Yeah, you know what, ⁓ I love the energy, but deep inside I'm a control freak. I want to be on top of it, seeing what everybody is doing. So yeah, that's hard even because I'm from overseas. So it is not like some people have properties in the area that they live, which is... quite easy because if something is wrong, you get in your car and you just drive there and then you see what's going on. ⁓ For me, it's completely different because if something is the matter, I have to trust other people to go and find out what really is wrong and fix it. Katie Harvey: Yeah, and how does that work? Because there's obviously pros and cons to being out of the UK in that you're forced to have a team on the ground that does it for you. And I think that that is a huge bonus from day one is that a lot of us get wrapped up in the noise and then we don't know how to pass it on. Whereas you've had to do that. But in terms of traveling back and forth from the UK, know that you attend property entrepreneur in person. I know that you come back for viewings occasionally. So how do you... find the traveling in your schedule because it's not always consistent is it? can be quite sporadic. Marion Neggers: Yeah, yeah, sometimes you miss family things because you're traveling. Some months are a little more quiet than other months. This month, month of March is a very, very busy month. This month I'm traveling to the UK once a week, at least. So that's quite a lot. And then I know in April things get more quiet because I arranged everything with my new property manager. I set up the systems and yeah, and then it gets easier. But I love to talk to people in person because if you are actually on the ground, you can see what's going on. Yeah. Katie Harvey: Yeah, it is nice to be there, but equally it must be quite exhausting going back and forth. I guess one benefit about airports is you get a lot of work done usually because there's no distractions, but that must eat into a lot of time with the traveling. Marion Neggers: Yeah, that's it. It's very, very time consuming and you're working on really, really strange hours. So when you're waiting for a flight or the best thing of the airport is the airport lounges, which is very, very convenient because it's quiet in there. There's food and drinks and you can work. Yeah. Katie Harvey: And how are you finding it with your sleep pattern? Because obviously you're going to have some of the flights that are quite late or quite early. How does it affect your sleep? Marion Neggers: Not. Everybody has it. think when we all have our roots and when I look at sleep, I'm approximately somewhere between 95 and 99 percent, you know, and I always had that even when I was a kid, you know, when I go to sleep, I sleep. The only thing I notice is when I travel a lot, I love to go ⁓ the same time to bed every day. But when you're traveling, the time isn't the same every day. So you can see it in the recovery, but it takes just one day and then I'm up and running again. Katie Harvey: Yeah, that's the key, isn't it? You can go one day out of schedule, but as long as you get back into schedule, then it's okay. And it sounds like you have a really good sleep routine. So do you go to bed at the same time every day? What time? Marion Neggers: Between 10.15 and 10.30. Yeah, that's it. And I'll get up. I don't have curtains in my bedroom. My husband always say, look like you're some sort of a chicken, you know? When it gets dark, you go to sleep. And when it's light, you're up. But that's what I love. So in the summer, I sleep. Katie Harvey: Yeah, that's around the same as me. Marion Neggers: Not as much as I sleep in winter because the sun wakes me up and I really love that. When the lights, when it's light, I go up. Yeah. Katie Harvey: Yeah, and do you know what? Biologically, that's what we're wired for. We should be waking and sleeping with the sunset and the sunrise. So the fact that you don't have curtains in your bedroom is amazing. I mean, we have a lot of street lamps around here, so we can't do that because the light shines in through the room. But I'm thinking of buying one of those Lumi lights. It like wakes you up with the sunrise, the fake one. Marion Neggers: Yeah, they work really, really well because when I was living in ⁓ the city center years and years ago, they just were invented. And it's the same when you say, I had curtains because otherwise the streetlights are in your bedroom. ⁓ And it works really well, but not as good as the real sun that wakes you up ⁓ every morning. Yeah, I really love that. Katie Harvey: Yeah, do you ever manage to get outside in it as well? Marion Neggers: I'm sorry, do I? Katie Harvey: Do you ever go outside and get some natural sunlight as well? Marion Neggers: Yes, every morning. I do, every morning I do my morning walk. So when I'm up, first thing I do is put on my clothes and my shoes and I go for a morning walk. That's just, I live in the countryside. So it's just one ⁓ block that I can walk. It's approximately three and a half kilometers. It's not that far, but it's... Yeah, 25 to 35 minutes depends on how tired I get out of bed. And that's amazing. When I go home, then I'll take a shower and I do my breakfast and I'm full of energy. It works really, really well. Katie Harvey: Bye. Yeah, you've got a really nice little morning routine there. And what I like about it is it's not really complicated. It's nice and simple. Marion Neggers: No, no, is. ⁓ And this is age, you know. I'm ⁓ not a young girl anymore. Sometimes I feel like a young girl, but when I look in the mirror, I say, ⁓ no, you're not there anymore. But I ⁓ used to be a real ⁓ goal getter, you know, when I go to the gym, it was all or nothing, you know, just always full out. ⁓ but now I can't do that anymore because if I go full out or I go over the line, I have to pay this for the payback is two, three days and I'm really, really exhausted. So now I'm doing more the quiet stuff, more regularly. So every morning I do my morning walk and, I have to shoot videos, which I really, really hate. And ⁓ most of the time I do it in the midday, ⁓ a lunch walk or something like that, you know. So I'll take my ⁓ headphone and ⁓ yeah, I go for another walk. Yeah. Katie Harvey: Yeah, I love that. think that that is key as well. So I have a very slow morning, quite similar to you. get up, I get my natural light. I don't go for a walk first thing. I tend to do that in the afternoon, but I get my natural light outside and I have my coffee outside with my glass of water. And then I have breakfast and then I write my list of what I'm going to do for the day. And then I get started, but I take it slowly. I don't rush it, but I don't have 20 steps in my morning routine. I think that people here morning routine or miracle morning and they get a bit carried away and they want a million things but you can't keep up with it. Marion Neggers: Yeah, that's the hard thing. That's something that I really had to learn. It's like I say, if you have blaze energy, it's all or nothing. When somebody says, ⁓ we go for one. Okay, let's start with five kilometers, which is completely ridiculous. If you just start slow and build it up. No, it's go full out. Then I have so much muscle pain for the next two days. You don't do anything at all. Katie Harvey: Yeah. Yes. Marion Neggers: Yeah, and now I had to learn to take it a little slower, but it's slower, but it's more consistent, which is, I think, much better for your body. Katie Harvey: Yeah, and it's first thing in the morning, which means that you're entering the day in a calm state, which is super important. If you wake up all rushed and chaotic, which I'm sure everyone does it at points where you've missed your alarm or you've slept in a little bit longer than you thought and you're rushing around, the rest of your day is bound to be chaotic. But if you start it calmly and slowly like you do, then you're much more on track to have a calm and consistent day as well. So yeah, I love that. Marion Neggers: Yeah, it's not always easy, you know, because sometimes I have a lot of work, so it's like the devil is chasing me, you know? But yeah, I'll say no, no, First my work and then we'll do the rest. And then when you come home, it is like, ah, you know? And the devil is still there because you still have to rush or finish things or, but it's... Yeah, the slow start is really, really, really great way to start your day. Katie Harvey: Definitely. how do you, even when you're traveling around, do you still have that same morning routine wherever you go? Amazing. And what about your evening? You've got your morning routine. Do you have an evening routine? Marion Neggers: Yes. ⁓ Yeah, I didn't watch TV for a very long time, ⁓ but yeah, sometimes I watch TV. Not too long, just a simple movie or something like that, and I really love that because it relaxes me, you know? You don't have to think about anything, which is so funny because before my husband had his accident, was really into, how do you say it, action movies. He really loved them. Sometimes we go to the ⁓ cinema and watch ⁓ action movies. But after the accident, his brain couldn't cope with all the action. So we started watching rom-coms, simple love stories, and it's very, very relaxing. You have a laugh, you don't have to think about it. It's not all images that are ⁓ flickering in front of you. it's just, sometimes it's a nice way of ending the day. Katie Harvey: Yeah, much more relaxing than an action film for sure. Marion Neggers: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is. It And you know, it's so funny because ⁓ when I look like an action movie or ⁓ something exciting, and then the next morning, I can feel that my brain was still busy all night solving problems which aren't even my problems, you know, they were in a movie which is really, really, it is funny. Katie Harvey: You It is true though, the anxiety and sort of the stress that these films cause you, which is obviously the intention from them. Sometimes it's fun, sometimes it's not, depends what film you're watching, but your body doesn't know the difference between it being real and it being fake. So it's still gonna go through the process of having to like let it sink in and work through it. So you make a really good point. It is like proven that... it doesn't know the difference between something that's real and something that's not in terms of your stress so you have to recover from that either way. So yeah maybe the romantic films are definitely the way to go for the evening. Marion Neggers: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think they are better. it's like you say, because your brain doesn't know if it is for real, if it is imagination, if it is happening, know, the flight ⁓ or fight or ⁓ freeze reaction is still there, which is, yeah, I think it's fascinating how your brain works and how you, ⁓ without even knowing it, how you steer from your brain by the language you use. I've been in a coaching and training business for a very long time. Everybody tells me, ⁓ you've always been a coach, even when I was little. Katie Harvey: Yeah. Marion Neggers: when my girlfriends had troubles ⁓ or when they fell in love or something like that, know, in the middle of the night, I was still on the phone with them. Just, no, this is okay. There will be another one, you know, this is not the end of the world. Listen to what you say to yourself. So yeah, I think that is very, very important to be aware of the language you use for yourself. Katie Harvey: Definitely and it affects so many different parts of your body and the way that you function when you are in that fight or flight mode and a lot of people don't realize that they're in like a low level mode of that constantly. They never exit it and that's like the slow mornings and going to bed at the same time. That shows that your body is safe and your brain loves safety. So it wants to know what's happening and having those routines is crucial. your brain actually being able to go into the rest and digest mode. So you're absolutely nailing it on that. Obviously though, property is not always smooth sailing, we all know that. So how do you deal with the stressful days? How do you deal with it when things don't go quite to plan? Marion Neggers: ⁓ my god, no. No. You know, I know there will always be another day, you know, and whatever happens, it's not the end of the world, you know. At the end of the day, I'm still breathing. Maybe things weren't going the way I would like them to go, but sometimes it's better to just leave it there, do two steps back and look at it from a different perspective instead of sitting in the middle of the problems. because you don't have the overview then. So sometimes you have to step back and look from another place. Katie Harvey: Yeah, I also find speaking to other people about it is really helpful because they see things that you don't. When you're wrapped up in it, sometimes you just can't see the end. So other people's perspectives can be super helpful. Marion Neggers: Yeah, that's what I love about the communities that I'm in. know, people are always helping each other. And I think there's also a cultural difference between the UK ⁓ and the Netherlands. We have a lot of Dutch investors ⁓ building a community and ⁓ helping each other, but it's always different from the UK. I think in the UK, The networks are much more ⁓ helpful and ready to help each other. And the Dutch people, they are more individualistic. They hold their cards to their chest, you know, I'm not going to tell you what I'm doing because maybe you're going to steal my idea. And I think this is completely nonsense because the world is more than big enough. know, there's lots of opportunities for everybody. So ⁓ just step up and help each other. And sometimes that's difficult. That's what I love about being in the networks in UK. People are sharing ⁓ opportunities and also problems. Katie Harvey: Yeah, and I... Marion Neggers: And it's like you say, if you can share your problems, half of them is already solved. Katie Harvey: Yeah and it's interesting, I've never really thought of the culture differences between where you are in the UK and it is true everyone in the UK is willing to help. You get a few negative people, a few people that aren't interested but you just distance yourself from them and then it's fine whereas I didn't realise that you don't have that sort of same experience where you are. Marion Neggers: Yeah, there are more cultural differences. I'm Dutch, so Dutch people are highly regulated. Everything is organized. There are forms for everything. Yeah, if you buy a house in the Netherlands, you only work with one solicitor, which saves a lot of noise and makes the process very, very quick and smooth. So ⁓ yeah, there are lot of things that are a little different. Everything in the Netherlands is mapped and measured. for example, if you go to land registry in the Netherlands, you can see exactly where boundaries are. are measurements, are ⁓ centimeters and ⁓ yeah. It's all there. It's completely different. Katie Harvey: Yeah, well it sounds like you fit into the UK culture very well in terms of wanting to help people and always willing to chat. You're very much a people person. So it definitely works out well. You get the best of both worlds. Marion Neggers: ⁓ yes, yes, yes. And sometimes it's also helpful if you have the Dutch background, know, like I always tell my property manager, yeah, that's a great idea, but let's do it the Dutch way, you know, it'll save a lot of noise in the process and ⁓ we can step up really, really quickly. yeah, that's funny. Like when we... complete the property, we do it within four weeks and then it's all done. You know, so when people say, ⁓ but you can't do it, but four weeks is a long time, you know, in the Netherlands you can do it in two days. So four weeks, very long. Yeah, but we can't do it in four weeks. Yes, but if you go to an auction, you have to do it in four weeks. So you can do it in four weeks. Yeah, so that's, yeah, that's what I love. Katie Harvey: Yeah, I think there's a few people here who I bet Wish had some Dutch culture around. Marion Neggers: Yeah. Yeah. Katie Harvey: So just to round things off for today, if you had to give someone top three tips for staying balanced, transitioning into full-time business, and generally looking after yourself and slowing down, what would you tell them to do? Marion Neggers: I think one of the ⁓ best ways and it helped me a lot is listen to your body because your body knows. And that's, I think that's, to a lot of people that's strange because the body is the vehicle you travel in. And you know what, if I say it has to go like this, it has to go like this. But I believe that a lot of diseases are coming from stress. ⁓ and ⁓ becoming, because we didn't listen to our bodies. I worked with a lot of, ⁓ when I was still full in the coaching industry, I worked with a lot of stressed out managers, burnouts and all kinds of things. And when you start talking to those people, they had several signals, but they all ignored the signals. and then they go into a burnout and then it gets really, really, really bad. Yeah, because it takes a long time to get out. Katie Harvey: Yeah. Yeah, and I've seen some really bad cases of it, like very physical symptoms, like stroke-like symptoms, really, really bad. And they go to the doctors and they say you're just stressed, but it's deeper than that. It's not as simple as just going for a spa day. It's consistent, really small habits that you have to do to be able to get out of it. Marion Neggers: ⁓ my god. Yeah, and it's also some sort of acceptance. I had a burnout when I was really young. I was 25. I was managing five bank branches. I already had two kids and I was just divorced, which was really, really, really nasty. And then one day I couldn't get out of my bed because my body didn't work. I couldn't sit. I thought I was completely paralyzed. I asked my kids to help me to get dressed and my daughter looked at me and said, mom, when I help you to get dressed, how on earth will you go to your work because you can't stand on your two feet? So yeah, I called for the doctor and he said, you you have a severe burnout. And I laughed at him and I said, you know what, burnout is that that's for people. that are weak, you know, I'm not a weak person. So I'm sick, know, my body is telling me I'm sick, maybe I have cancer or I don't know what, but I'm sick. And then he said, no, it's just stress. And to let it sink in and realize, ⁓ my God, I had so many signals, the lights were on red, you know, and I just kept going, which was... pretty, pretty stupid, but I didn't know then because I thought, you know, when I'm not there, everything will collapse because I'm in charge and I have to do it. And then the worst part was when I returned to the work floor, several months later, everything was still there, you know? There weren't crying customers or something like that, you know? Everybody managed without me being there. There was such a big eye opener, you know, so yeah. Yeah. And I made myself a promise I never ever go back to that place. It's a dark place. Yeah. Katie Harvey: Yeah, and it is super hard to recognise. I think when you're stuck in it and you're so deep in it, you can't see it yourself. So I often speak to people who once they've sort of understood the signs and the symptoms, they're like, I think I might be burning out. Like, I think I might be in this position myself. And I'm like, that's completely okay. It's good that you're recognising it firstly, but I'm to be brutally honest with you. You're a lot further along than you think you are. and this is a lot worse than you think it is and you need to just take a step back and set some boundaries, look after yourself because the best gift you can give anyone is the best version of you and that is, I live by that and I know that if I'm getting to a point where I'm exhausted, I'm tired, I start dropping my daily habits, I know I'm not a good person to be around. So I need to do it not just for me but for the people around me because you can't perform or be a kind person without looking after you. Marion Neggers: Yeah, I agree. I agree. And it sounds so simple, but it's, yeah, it's hard sometimes. Katie Harvey: Definitely will. Yeah, people wait until crisis before they do anything. That's what I'm on a mission to stop is have people have the balance before it gets to that tipping point. But it isn't easy and it can be really difficult, but I'm glad that you have seen the light at the end of the tunnel and now you're in a really good, healthy position. Marion Neggers: Yeah, so listen to your body. That's a top tip. And I think the other ⁓ tip is believe in yourself. Because there are a lot of people that are waiting for the people around them, the environment to pat them on the back and say, ⁓ you're okay. Which you're always okay, you you were already okay as a baby. This is who you are. So... stay close to yourself and believe in yourself. And I think that I see it with the grandkids, you know, I think it's a, I don't know, it's a tough world. It's a different world than the world that I grew up in. There are so many things, you know, on the social media, they see a lot of stories that are perfect, you know, and they are comparing themselves with. stories because they are just stories. When the camera is off, most of the storytellers are completely different people. We do everything to get the few likes. ⁓ And I see a lot of young people that don't believe in themselves anymore because they think they have to keep up with the image that all the influencers are giving. And that is something that makes me really really really sad. So I think that the second best tip is believe in yourself because you are worth more than anything that you can see online and you're capable of much more than you can ever imagine. Katie Harvey: I love that. That is a great tip and it is so easy to get sucked into social media these days. Too easy, actually. I mean, I had to unfollow huge amounts of people just so that I wasn't comparing my life to someone else's life, which probably isn't even real. So yeah, it can be quite toxic if it's not used in the right way for sure. Marion Neggers: Yeah, that's it. And I think that it's tempting, you know, because when you look at it, it's so funny when you're waiting for the bus or you're in the waiting room at the dentist or something like that. Ten years ago, you went into a waiting room and there was always somebody talking, you know, even it was about the weather, but there was connection, you know, people are talking to each other. And now everybody's on his phone, know, like zombies. And it's not helping, you know? think ⁓ your brain needs challenges. yeah, youth is not challenging themselves. Yeah. Katie Harvey: what would your final tip be? Marion Neggers: ⁓ my God, the final, your body ⁓ believe in yourself. ⁓ I think time is... ⁓ is maybe the third tip, just you spend your time well, you know, and you, ⁓ we live in a world that is, everybody says it's not equally ⁓ divided, you know, some people have more, some people have less, and some parts of the world are in war, but there's one thing that we all have the same of, and it's time. We all have 24 hours a day and it doesn't matter if you're white, brown, yellow, poor, rich, it doesn't matter. You have 24 hours. And most of the time you are on autopilot, you know, you go to your work, you go lunch, you go and you go home, then you go dinner, then you go sit in front of the telly and then you go to sleep. So, but I think the third tip is just to think about the time. that you have and there is much more time than we think. When I was coaching, a lot of people came into the practice and said, oh, but I want to change my life, but I don't have time to change my life. And I say, oh, that's interesting. How long do you sleep? I sleep eight hours. Okay, you sleep eight hours. So you have 16 hours left. How many hours do you work? Five, six. even eight hours, you have still eight hours left. And in those eight hours, you have to do some shopping, you have to do some cooking, you have to watch over the kitchen, you have a lot of things you have to do every day. But I bet you, you still have approximately two, three hours a day that are free. So if you wanna start a new business, if you wanna start meditating, start ⁓ do some sports or whatever what, you have the time. So don't tell yourself you don't have time because there's always time. Katie Harvey: is incredible. I love that. It is always the same, you always hear it from me, I don't have time for this but actually manage it a little bit better and if you're passionate and you want it enough you'll always find the time. Marion Neggers: Yeah, that's so funny because when you, for example, if you are in a group and then things need to be done, it's so funny because the most busy people always have time. That's funny, isn't it? Katie Harvey: It is. It is. Well, thank you for sharing your perspective so openly. Conversations like this exist to normalise the experiences that many people go through quietly as life and responsibility grow. So if anything that we've spoken about feels familiar, that doesn't mean something is wrong. It just means you're starting to pay attention. You can find more conversations like this through Breathe. And if you want to understand how you're currently operating, you can take the b.reathe Scorecard at www.breatheblueprint.com. And Marion, people get of you if they'd like to? Marion Neggers: yeah, you can ⁓ me up. It's Marion Neggers, N-E-G-G-E-R-S. If you ⁓ my name into Google, there's only one of me, which is very, very handy. ⁓ you always ⁓ to me. And if I can help you with anything, just me know. Katie Harvey: Amazing. Thank you so much for joining me today. Marion Neggers: Thank you. I really enjoyed this conversation. Thank you so much.