Latest / 🎙️ Rebuild & Fulfill Real conversations on burnout, rebuilding, and becoming stronger than before. / Reinvention Before the Breaking Point: How to Change Without Starting Over | Episode 46
Transcript
- Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder): Sometimes we think change has to wait until something falls apart. We tell ourselves we'll make a change when we have more time, more clarity, or a better plan. Or we wait until we're so frustrated that staying the same feels impossible. But what if the signs are already there? What if a part of your life is asking for a change before you actually reach a breaking point? Today, Marc and I are talking about reinvention. How to recognize when something no longer fits, why we sometimes wait for a crisis, and how to begin moving in a new direction without having a new path all figured out. Welcome to Rebuild and Fulfill. I'm Kelsey Dunbar. here with my co-host, Marc Rogala. And in our last episode, Candice Snyder shared what she's learned through 300 conversations, and also she talked about reinvention, kindness, connection, and purpose. It got me thinking about how change often begins. Sometimes it follows a major event, but sometimes there's a quieter realization that the way you've been living, working, or seeing yourself. Isn't quite right anymore. Marc, today I want us to talk about those moments before the breaking point. How do we recognize them? And how do we respond without feeling like we need to change everything overnight? So when people hear reinvention, they might picture a major life overhaul, a new career, a big move, a dramatic decision. But I think it can start much smaller. We may have different pictures in our mind when we hear that word. So let's start by defining it for ourselves. So Marc, when you hear the word reinvention, what does it mean to you? Does it have to be a dramatic change or can it begin with something smaller? Marc Rogala (Co-Founder): I mean, obviously you're changing yourself, you're changing your perception of the world, you're making changes in your life. But I think the biggest mistake that a lot of individuals make is they think it has to be a major change and a major overhaul at once when really it could be small steps, a gradual shift. I think that's really, really important. And then the other thing is too, specifically on the career side, is you know, if we are making some changes on the career side, a lot of times we look at the person in the mirror and we feel that maybe we failed or, you know, there's we're defective or there's something wrong. I think we have to shift the narrative in the brain and understand that there are positives that we bring to the table. And with those positives, we can make a gradual shift and pursue something else that's gonna drive happiness and drive purpose. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder): Yeah, I I like that. Sometimes the outside of your life may look the same while something inside you is shifting. You may still be doing the same work or meeting the same responsibilities, but you're starting to question whether the way you're doing it still makes sense. So often the first sign of change is not a decision. It's simply noticing that a question keeps coming back. So, Marc, have you ever noticed a change? Beginning with a feeling or a question before you actually knew what action you wanted to take? Marc Rogala (Co-Founder): Yeah, I mean I've seen it not only with myself, but I've also seen it with a lot of people that I work with, Kelsey. you know, they have a responsibility, whether it's at home or or whether it's professionally, and they just feel trapped or they feel stuck and they feel like you know, is is this it? This is this this is my life, this is what I'm gonna be doing the rest of my life. And they just have an uneasiness in them. I had that uneasiness in me as well. And they they when you feel trapped like that, you know, it's almost like a a caged animal, if you will. sometimes bad habits start to develop, whether it's, you know, eating or lack of exercise, or you just feel drained or feel tired. And you know, it's just an un uneasiness in the inside, you know, in their gut that basically tells them that, you know, this is not working for me anymore. But there's obviously a lot of fear there to make changes because of the obligations that they have. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder): Yeah. and also sometimes there are even quieter signs. So as you were talking about before, Marc, maybe you feel more drained by something that used to energize you, right? So maybe you're staying in a role because people expect it of you, or you're might be working towards a goal that you haven't stopped to question in a long time and say, Wow, is that is that what I really still want? I mean, that's what I thought then, but now it just doesn't seem as important to me. So those feelings can be easy to brush aside, especially when there's no obvious event forcing us to stop and think. So Marc, what are some other signs that would make you pause and ask, does this still fit me? Marc Rogala (Co-Founder): Well, I mean, obviously feeling drained, feeling exhausted, But the biggest thing too is I feel that people become resentful. Resentful towards their job, sometimes resentful at home towards their relationships and their family, sometimes resentful to the person in the mirror. And when when you have start having resentments like that, that could be a very dangerous situation. And if people start feeling that way, I think they need to do some soul searching, take a really hard look, maybe put a plan of action in place and start looking at some goals that they would like to attain moving forward and make a gradual shift towards them. Because those resentments can lead to some chaos in their life for sure. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder): Yeah. And it isn't always obvious. You might tell yourself, I'm just tired, or this is just a busy season. And that may be true, but if that same feeling keeps returning, it could be worth getting curious about it. So the tricky part is deciding whether that feeling is asking for attention or whether we just need to get through a demanding stretch. So Marc, how would you tell when a feeling is something to pay attention to? rather than something to just push through because that happens to a lot of us a lot of the time, right? Marc Rogala (Co-Founder): Yeah, I think you make an interesting point there about a season, a busy time of the year. Maybe you're at work, it's the end of the the business year or what have you and you're working some extra hours. But if that passes and those feelings are still there and they keep returning, I think that's a big red flag. and even with rest, if for some reason you get past that busy season And you start doing some things in your life, you know, getting better sleep, maybe getting back into the gym, whatever it might be that you are looking to accomplish to try to be healthier and to try to be happier, if those feelings are still there, then that's a red flag. the other thing is too, is you know, regarding goals, you know, whether you still like the goal that you attain for yourself or do you dislike even the way you're pursuing it? I think that's important. And You know, if the feeling c continues to come back over and over and over again, then you need to take a hard look in the mirror. Like I said before, some chaos ensues. You know, I personally have felt that way in my profession, specifically when I was in the insurance industry, but also with the work that I do in the community. There's a lot of people that felt those feelings for a long period of time. And unfortunately some bad habits developed. And as a result of ignoring those feelings, a lot of chaos ensued. And they found themselves in a crisis mode. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder): Yeah. A hard week doesn't automatically mean it's time to walk away from something. Sometimes we do need rest or support or just a different approach. Other times the difficulty is showing us that the situation itself needs to change in some way. So since the same struggle can have different causes, it helps to look at what's underneath it before making a big change. So, Marc, What helps you sort out the difference between a temporary hard season and something that may no longer be right for you? Marc Rogala (Co-Founder): Good question. It's a deep question. I think whether the same problem continues after the immediate pressure eases would be something to take a look at. whether more rest or support would change the way you feel, whether the situation still matters to you, even if it's difficult, and whether you're trying to solve a temporary problem and avoiding a bigger question. I think those are all factors that people need to consider. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder): Sure. And and maybe one question to ask is if I had more rest and support, like you kind of mentioned before, would you still want to do this? If the answer is yes, maybe the pressure around it needs to change. If the answer is no, maybe there's a bigger question to sit with. So that question can open the door. But it may take a few more honest ones to understand what's really going on. So what other questions might help someone think it through without rushing into a a big major life changing decision? Marc Rogala (Co-Founder): I think people need to do an analysis of what part of this is working and what part is not. And I think they need to do some soul searching on the inside and ask themselves the question: what would I want personally if I weren't worried about disappointing someone? And that's just from the work that I do in the community. There's a lot of people out there, again, that are struggling with some bad habits and some chaos that has ensued in their life because they just feel stuck, they feel trapped. And They're worried about disappointing someone, whether it be their spouse, whether it be their children in their household, maybe they would like to pursue a different career that might give them better work-life balance, maybe give them some peace, maybe give them some purpose, but they feel that they would be letting people down because maybe it's going to be less income. And I think that that's an area that the general population struggles with. I have these conversations every single day. with men and women that feel that if they make the changes that they need in their life, they're gonna be letting people down in their life. Spouse, boyfriend, girlfriend, children, whatever it might be. Maybe they're maybe they're direct reports if they're if they're in leadership in the company that they're at. There's a lot of factors that come into play there. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder): yeah. So if we can notice these signs, why do we sometimes wait until we're overwhelmed before we respond? Maybe we're afraid of letting people down, just like Marc said. Maybe we don't know what comes next. Maybe we've built our identity around. Being dependable or successful or the person who can handle everything, right? So changing direction can feel like giving something up, even when the current path is costing us something too. So understanding these pressures can help us see why recognizing a problem doesn't always lead to change. So, Marc, What do you think makes it hard for people to change something even when they know it isn't working? Marc Rogala (Co-Founder): It's it's a deep question. I mean, again, I go back to fear of disappointing people or disrupting expectations. I think that is huge. The fear of the unknown, not knowing what comes next. I think people sometimes just stay in in the role that they're in or the life that they're living, just because it's the same old, same old, even though they feel unhealthy on the inside. It's what they become used to and they're afraid that if they make changes, it could affect them in a negative manner. I know for me personally, I felt responsibility for continuing the role that I was in. You know, personally I don't believe that I quit anything. and I think that sometimes people feel that if they leave a role professionally, that that they're quitting and that they failed. And again, that's where that brain set reset comes in. Because even like with me, when I was a manager in the insurance industry, I felt that way. But at the same time, I mean, now I would look at all the success that I had in the insurance industry, whether it was as a sales representative or a manager, winning trips, winning different awards and so forth. But for me the biggest thing was, you know, I'm not going to quit. I I felt that way with my profession. I felt that way with my marriage. That's just something that's been ingrained in me. And I felt that if I would have left my marriage, or left that role in the insurance industry, personally, I felt like I would be a failure and a quitter. And that's so not the case. You know, you're pursuing something in your life that might lead you to a purpose. It might leave you to passion that you might have. Now I'm inciting Candice's name of her podcast, right? Okay. You know, and it might lead to something that you never could have predicted. I think I'm evidence of that, you're evidence of that, and a lot of the guests that we've had on our podcast are evidence of that for sure. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder): Yeah. And and I love that answer. It's not just the fear of change, it's the fear of what change is going to represent either to us or to others. Like I couldn't hack it. You know, and and people have that fear of I have to admit something about myself in order to change something about myself. And that do th those two things don't both have to be true. So that's a great point there. I love that. So I also think people can feel like things have to be bad enough before they're allowed to change them. But you don't necessarily need a crisis to take an honest look at your life. That idea of needing permission can keep us in place even when we know we're ready to reconsider something. So, Marc, have you ever caught yourself waiting for permission, certainty, or a dramatic reason before making a change? I think we all have, Marc Rogala (Co-Founder): Okay. Well this is Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder): right? Marc Rogala (Co-Founder): This is a loaded question because those that follow the podcast know what happened with me. Of course I have. I never made the change until the change was made for me. But what did it cost me? I mean, it cost me my marriage, it cost me my relationship with my kids, it cost me that profession. But everything happened for a reason, but it led to a lot of chaos in my life. And again, when I speak to individuals, and it doesn't necessarily need to be at a behavioral health center or hospital. Just talking to people in everyday life, I do share a little bit of my story because I do look at the world completely different now. I think work life balance is very important. I think you got to be continuing to work on your relationship. I'm not fearful of change. Sometimes when you make changes in your life, okay, it's the best thing that could have ever happened to you. I don't have fear of the unknown. Why? Because I went through the unknown. And I get that and I understand that, but I feel by sharing my story with people, it gives them a sense of things can work out as well. It gives them hope and inspiration, like we've talked about many times on this podcast. But I think that's the biggest thing, you know, is is not getting to a situation where you're in crisis. Maybe journal, maybe look at your patterns. Do some introspective, look at how you feel. And again, we do not have to make all these changes at once in any aspect of life. I mean, maybe you just put some feelers out there to see if there's any other jobs or professions out there that might be of interest to you. Maybe you make one change on the dietary side. Maybe you start walking. Maybe if you're having struggles at home with your relationship with your partner, spouse, what have you, girlfriend, boyfriend. You go to couples counseling. I mean whatever it might be. You don't make that first step as opposed to that festering inside of you, because it's like a cancer. And that cancer is gonna manifest. And when it manifests, it usually leads to chaos in people's lives. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder): Yeah, and to Marc's point, I want to make sure we don't leave our listeners thinking that reinvention always means quitting or leaving or throwing everything away. Sometimes the first change is much, much smaller. You might adjust a commitment, change how you define success, maybe ask for some help, or decide if an old expectation just no longer needs to direct the rest of your life. A smaller adjustment can still change how a situation feels and what options become possible. So Marc, what's an example of a change that could begin with an adjustment rather than a dramatic leap? I know you touched on that before, but maybe can go into that a little bit more what that might look like for someone. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder): I mean the way I look at it now is changing your routine on a daily basis, something that's gonna make you feel purposeful in life. look at the amount of time that you give something. We'll use work as an example, try to create more work-life balance, right? Setting a limit or asking for more support, that's not a sign of a weakness in any aspect of life, whether it's professionally or personally seeking out support. Yet again, as we've talked about many times on this podcast, there's a perception out there that that's a weakness asking for help or asking for support. It's not a weakness, it's actually a sign of strength. I kind of alluded this a little earlier, but You know, maybe exploring new options. Like I said, from a professional perspective, maybe put some feelers out there and see if there's any bites, you know, while you're continuing to work at your current role. You might be pleasantly surprised. the other thing too is, you know, expectations, letting go of expectations that no longer serve your goal. And then the big thing is and you kind of just mentioned this changing your definition of success because the way I looked at success before was a nice house, nice cars, a wad of cash in my pocket, and that is so different than the way I look at the world right now. My definition of success now is what type of difference I can make in people's lives, you know, and how and help people. Now that's me. Everybody's different, but do some soul searching. Like I said, do some journaling. And figure out what your personal definition of success is and what would make you happy on the inside. That's what it comes down to is being happy on the inside. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder): Yeah. And and speaking of definitions, I also want to clarify the definition around support and help. Now, obviously, we have throughout all of our podcasts recommended that when you need help, when you need support, and we might be talking about professional help or talking to a a a family member and saying, I I need help. And that's a little bit more of an an emotional help rather than an intellectual help, which could also simply be someone that your friends with that you admire them and you respect their opinion, just saying, Hey, I have some ideas or some things that are rolling around in my head. Do you mind if I get your take on it? That is help and support too. So don't think that anytime we mention support or help, it it almost has to be a crisis situation. This could just be like, I'm just trying to find a way to be a happier me. And I thought of a few things, maybe I can bounce it off of you. So I just wanted to put that out there. Marc Rogala (Co-Founder): Absolutely. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder): yeah. But there's a difference between honoring what something meant to you and insisting it has to stay exactly the same forever. Letting go of an old direction can bring up doubts about whether we're dismissing the time and effort we already invested. So how can someone respect what a past goal or role meant to them while still giving themselves permission to change? Marc Rogala (Co-Founder): I mean, I think that the biggest thing is you're not starting from scratch, man. I mean, you've learned a lot. Again, I'm just gonna use me as an example, okay? I'm in a completely different career now, but I was in sales and insurance for a long time. Okay. And there's a the the way my brain works is there's a lot of things that I use from my sales techniques. When I'm working with an individual on the outside and we're just talking about life changes, I can read body language, I can hear a tone in their voice, almost like I would observe buying signals when I was in the insurance industry, right? Okay. I pay attention to pauses, whether it's a conversation over the phone or whether it's a conversation in person. So I mean, you have knowledge, you've learned a lot along the way. So even if you move on, you can take that knowledge and you can apply it to other aspects in life, professionally or personally for that matter, as well. So that's the biggest thing that I think people need to understand. And the other thing too is self worth, self love, separating that from a job, title, or role. Because at the end of the day, we're a human being. We're not Marc Rogala agency manager. we're a human being, and I think that that's important. And understanding that change, whatever it might be, doesn't erase all the good things that you've done in the past. And you have to identify those good things and you have to remind yourself of those good things. Because again, I going back to what we talked about earlier, sometimes if we do make some type of career change, we feel that we failed in that career. Not at all. You've accomplished a lot in that career. It was just time for a move, time to make some changes in your life. Again, working on some stuff on the inside to give you some purpose, some passion, and some peace. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder): Yeah, or the other thing that I can think about is say a relationship. I mean, not every relationship that you've ever had is a relationship that you still have now. And there might have been a reason why it ended. And it doesn't mean that you had to have had a fight with someone. It sometimes people come into your life for a reason and they leave for a reason. And you can respect the relationship and the role that it played in your life without having to be hurt over the fact that that relationship no longer exists. So there are lots of different things that can change in your life besides a job or or say a relationship or a feeling or a goal. I've had physical goals, whether it's a marathon or half Iron Man, and I'm not so sure that I want to do those things anymore. I did it one time, and I may decide that I want to do them sometime in the future, but they're not the priority for me that they once were. So what we're talking about is something as simple as something that you thought was meant for you that no longer applies. And That should be understood as well. So Marc Rogala (Co-Founder): One thing can say regarding the relationship thing, you bring up a good point there. You know, I mean, if for some reason you had a relationship that you moved away from, you really can do some introspective there too. I mean, look at the things that went well, look at the things that went not so well, and maybe why that relationship no longer exists, and maybe do some soul searching. And again, you can use the knowledge that you've accumulated. Buy those relationships that are no longer in existence and apply that to future relationships. It's the same thing. I mean, it's no different than diet. It's no different than a setback on alcohol, drugs, gambling, shopping, or whatever it might be. It's like looking at the glass half full versus half empty. It's brain set resets, is really what it comes down to. And if you can get in the habit of doing that, it's gonna make these changes and taking a look at what's going on on the inside a hell of a lot easier. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder): Yeah, well said. I appreciate that you jumped in there. those are excellent points. So another thing that keeps people stuck is believing that they need to know exactly where they're going before they can take a step. But sometimes the next step is just a way to learn more. So you could write down what you're noticing. You can talk it through with someone you trust, as we mentioned. You can try a different routine for a couple of weeks, just see how it feels. You can explore an option without committing to it yet. So those first steps don't have to settle the whole question. They can simply help someone understand themselves and their options a little better. So, Marc, what small steps might help someone learn what they want without forcing an immediate answer? Marc Rogala (Co-Founder): I mean, I definitely believe in journaling or writing things down. So I mean again, writing down what feels energizing and what feels draining and and look at the patterns. talking with someone who can listen without deciding for you, just you're able to bend an ear and listen to and have them listen to you about maybe some of the thoughts that are going on inside. trying a small change. Again, we're not just pulling the friggin' tablecloth off the table. And expecting everything to s make a small change and and and and notice that change and how it affects you. I think that that's very important. gathering information about a potential option on something that you're looking to adjust in your life and setting an intention while staying open to adjusting it, I think is important as well. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder): Yeah. The goal isn't to force an immediate answer. It's to give yourself a little space to pay attention and to make a more informed choice. Marc was just talking about when you're bending someone's ear, sometimes just even hearing your own voice asking about something helps before they even start saying anything, helps you lead to the decision that you want to make. Because when you hear yourself talking, you're like, yeah, that that's that's true. And it just makes you think more about it before you even get the reflection back. So as we learn more, we may find that the first plan needs to change too. That doesn't mean that we failed. As Marc said, we want to take the idea of failure out of the equation. This is a reevaluation, right? So how can someone stay open to adjusting a plan without feeling like changing course means that they failed? Marc Rogala (Co-Founder): I mean, first and foremost the plan is not concrete. So I mean treating a treating a plan as something that you can revisit and make adjustments to. I think that's the most important thing. Obviously constantly seeking out new information and potentially making those adjustments and remembering that an adjustment can help you keep moving forward, focusing on what matters most to you. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder): As we bring this together, here's a question listeners can take with them. What's one part of your life that may be asking for a change? Not because everything is falling apart, but because you're ready to move in a different direction. You don't have to answer it all today. You might just notice what comes up. So Before we close, Marc and I each want to leave you with one thought from this conversation. I'll go ahead and go first. You don't need to wait for a crisis to take your own concerns seriously. Also, A small adjustment can be a meaningful beginning, and you can appreciate what a past role and goal gave you and still choose something different. So Marc, what's one thought you hope listeners carry with them after this conversation? Marc Rogala (Co-Founder): It's okay not to know the whole plan yet. Getting support can help you think more clearly. And changing course doesn't erase what you've already learned. Kelsey Dunbar (Co-Founder): Absolutely, for sure. And if you're in a difficult season, this isn't a push to make a rush decision. It's an invitation to notice what you're experiencing, get support where you need it, and consider whether a thoughtful adjustment could help. Reinvention doesn't always start with a dramatic moment. Sometimes it starts with noticing that something no longer fits and being willing to ask what might need to change. You don't need the whole path figured out to take one thoughtful step. The next step might be as simple as giving yourself time to think, writing down what you've been noticing, or talking it through with someone you trust. whatever it is, let it be a first step that makes sense for you. So, as always, thank you for listening to today's episode. If this conversation resonated with you, Share it with someone who might need the reminder that change can begin before everything falls apart. And as we always say, keep rebuilding, keep moving forward, and we will see you on the next episode of Rebuild and Fulfill. Take care.