Latest / LIFE Podcast with Dr. C / Gripping Grace in the Garden of Grief

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Gripping Grace in the Garden of Grief · LIFE Podcast with Dr. C

• 0:08
  Dr C: Marsha, welcome to the live podcast.
• 0:10
  Dr C: Excited to have you here today and learn more about you and your work.
• 0:14
  Dr C: Can you start by telling us a little bit about the Sterling Rose Sanctuary?
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: The Sterling Rose Sanctuary is a nonprofit 501c3 where we help people breathe again, live again, live again from trauma and grief so that they can live in their creative design.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: And we work with people all over the U.S.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: and now in seven countries.
• 0:38
  Dr C: Wow, amazing.
• 0:39
  Dr C: Seven countries of healing.
• 0:41
  Dr C: I love that.
• 0:42
  Dr C: And we need that now more than ever.
• 0:44
  Dr C: I think post-pandemic, so many of us have a similar experience of uh of the pandemic and how traumatizing that was for people in all different you know types of levels and in different dimensions of wellness.
• 0:57
  Dr C: So, you know, Marcia, in our planning session, you mentioned that if we don't deal with trauma, the body keeps us poor.
• 1:04
  Dr C: So can you explain to our listeners what is happening biologically, specifically with the amygdala in our organs when we hold on to grief?
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: So we were created to release.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, toxins build up in our body, and grief, if it is not released, creates toxin within the body.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: It creates a toxin that can go into various organs.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, one being the lungs hold grief, and it's not uncommon for people who are grieving to have difficulty breathing, to experience uh asthmatic issues, pneumonia, bronchitis.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: So the body does hold into the emotions that are not being released out.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: Anger goes into the liver, and so the liver stops being able to produce the way that it's made to because the anger is settled into the organ.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: So we want to understand that the body does hold on to the toxic emotions, and when I say that, I don't want people to think that, well, I shouldn't be crying, I shouldn't experience anger.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: What I'm saying is that if you're not releasing those emotions, you're not releasing the toxins of those emotions, the body is going to start having issues.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: And the brain also, if it is not having the proper dialogue in the brain, it also starts maybe having a negative rhetoric, which wires the body to also line up with what you're thinking and speaking over yourself.
• 2:47
  Dr C: You also talk about the four parts of the heart.
• 2:50
  Dr C: So you utilize the modality called heart sync or heart healing.
• 2:54
  Dr C: And you mentioned that the heart has four parts.
• 2:56
  Dr C: And let me make sure I got I got this right: true self, emotions, function, and guardian.
• 3:01
  Dr C: Are those the four?
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, ma'am.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: They are.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 3:05
  Dr C: Can you break down for us though, and explain how function sometimes tries to hijack our own healing?
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: Function, and when I speak of function, I want everyone to understand that when we get up in the morning, we go to the bathroom, we brush our teeth, that's a function of what we do during the day.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: We get a cup of coffee or get your juice at breakfast.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's you functioning.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: What happens in grief is we can go into a fight, flight, freeze, or fawn in a function.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: Function is what comes in and lives in that space because it's a place where it is a coping mechanism.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: And what happens is when it hijacks function, function does not know what's going on emotionally, nor does it want to, because it believes that if it has anything to do with emotion, it's not going to be able to survive.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: So it goes into this autopilot of performing.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: Some goes into performance, some go into just sitting back and doing nothing, and some it's just fighting, fighting, fighting everyone and everything.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: So depending on how the individual is wired and how they walk into their grief and in the trauma, that's what we're looking at when we're talking about function.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: And we don't want function to get hijacked because if it does, that means that you could start living in performance.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: And in performance, then you're not really able to be present with other people because you're not dealing with the emotions that are so necessary to be able to have the healing that is needed.
• 4:56
  Dr C: So why is it dangerous for high achievers to stay in mission mode and ignore the pain and push through, as you as you mentioned?
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, because first of all, when that happens, they become burned out, but they're also denying themselves the healing.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: So they've got to be intentional to heal.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so what happens is they're replacing performance for the intentionality of walking through the pain.
• 5:26
  Dr C: So ignoring the pain and pushing through.
• 5:28
  Dr C: I hear that so much from people that I coach for burnout recovery.
• 5:32
  Dr C: I'm just pushing through.
• 5:33
  Dr C: I'm just pushing through.
• 5:34
  Dr C: I know, I don't know anything else but to push through.
• 5:38
  Dr C: And so what I'm hearing you say is pushing through is ignoring pain, ignoring the signs that something's wrong.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 5:45
  Dr C: And your your body, your brain, and your organs suffer for it because it has to go somewhere, right?
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: And we need to discuss that with grieving, right now, it's like 95 to 97 percent of those that are going in for a grief are counselor or coach.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's due to unresolved grief.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where the mental health component of our society right now, the majority of the people with mental health issues, it's due to unresolved, complicated, complex grief.
• 6:22
  Dr C: So Marsha, you've walked up a path that many fear, right?
• 6:27
  Dr C: You lost your son Sterling, and later your second son was murdered.
• 6:32
  Dr C: You said something profound to me when we were in our planning session.
• 6:36
  Dr C: You said grief did not define me, but it redefined my life.
• 6:40
  Dr C: Can you share that moment of realization where you knew your old self had to die to survive the new you?
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if we're gonna be realistic and honest, I knew in the moment that they said Sterling would no longer be coming home.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: I died.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: Now the the reality is, did I choose to acknowledge that or did I try to still stay who I was?
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: And in that moment, because I am what you get, I chose to acknowledge.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: And everything of the life that we had with Sterling as a family, as a husband and wife, me as a mom to the rest of my kids, it died.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: The friend that I was when Sterling was present in his presence died.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: I would no longer resurrect that person, nor did I want to because he wasn't here.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: So as a family, we sat down and talked about we need to give ourselves permission.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: We too have died.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so, in that, it's it's letting go.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: And when I say letting go, I'm talking about a releasing of trying to be restored to that time and to be that person that I used to be, that my husband and I used to be.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: We all gave ourselves permission that we need to step into become the new persons that we're called to be now, and that's a journey, and it has to be with intention.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: But I feel like most people don't want to acknowledge the death of themselves and the death of the existence of what their life was.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: That doesn't mean that we weren't going to parent, we weren't going to have a marriage, it meant we no longer were nor would be those people again.
• 8:39
  Dr C: We always talk about returning back to normal.
• 8:41
  Dr C: And what I'm hearing from you is that there's never going to be that same normal, right?
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: And we we I don't even like the word normal.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: I don't like that word.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think of normal as being a setting on a dryer.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: What is normal?
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, let's really think about that.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: There is there's nothing that our lives, what makes in our humanity where we cross over is that we all experience the same emotions, we all experience life and death situations, but there's not a normal.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: What there is is there's we were all created with a design that we should be living in, but what I do and what you do are not going to look the same, but it doesn't make it not normal, it's just that we're uniquely different and we're fulfilling our roles as we were called to do.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I've never liked the word normal, and it's interesting.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if it's because of the grief that I experienced as a child growing up, but I've always disliked the word normal because I think that puts an expectation that we have to be and doing something that it's unattainable.
• 9:52
  Dr C: Yes.
• 9:53
  Dr C: Thank you so much for correcting me.
• 9:55
  Dr C: I love that perspective because I think we are trying to fit a round hole into a square peg and or a square peg and a round hole, and we struggle, right?
• 10:06
  Dr C: We struggle with that with the traditional thought of where we should be, who we should be, how we should be reacting or dealing with a situation.
• 10:15
  Dr C: So thank you so much for correcting me because I love how you put that.
• 10:19
  Dr C: We're all unique, and everybody has a unique pathway and a unique journey.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 10:25
  Dr C: So one of the hardest parts of loss is that everyone grieves differently.
• 10:28
  Dr C: And you share a story with me about a photograph of yourself.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: From the onset, we decided to sit down daily, especially in the very beginning, to talk about what triggered each of us and what was healing to each of us.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: And when we had the life celebration, we had this beautiful picture that had been done of Sterling, and I wanted it to hang, and my daughter wanted it to hang in the space of our living, the main space.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that was healing to my daughter and to myself, but to my son and to my husband, it was triggering.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: So we we and I I really this is one of the things that we we teach and really encourage people from working with them in their grief journey, sit down and do this exercise and say, on a scale of one to five, how healing is it for you to have this picture present?
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so my daughter and I put a five.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: On the scale of one to five, how triggering is this for you to have it present?
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: It was a five for them.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: And you go, Whoa, okay, how do you get around that?
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what we said is, is there a place in our house that we can put this that it's not invasive, but that we know that it's there and we can be able to see it?
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: And we found that perfect spot.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: We were able to do that, and they didn't have to see it in their face daily, but it was in a place that my daughter and I could see it and we could receive the healing that emitted from us from just having that picture present in that space.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: So we have to understand that because someone doesn't want a picture, it's not because they didn't love the person, and it's not because they're not supporting the way we're grieving.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's because it really is causing harm to their mental and emotional health and well-being.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: And we need to understand that we all have multiple areas that we may have some conflicts, but we can resolve them some easier, some more a little easier than others, but they can be resolved.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's the same thing with, you know, I was thinking about this the other day.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: We wanted to move.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: They tell you not to move the state where you are.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: Well, our son was very much a fixture of where we lived.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: His coming in and out, he was in law school.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: It was part of our day, it was part of our late night ritual that he would come in, and it was really taking a toll on all of us.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: And we the, you know, my children and myself said to my husband, we will, and he was like, I don't want to move, I don't want to move, I don't want to move.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: And we had to sit down and go through this same strategy on a scale of one to five.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we all wanted to move, three out of you know, four of us wanted to move.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: He came to that point, and with you know, after the year mark of Sterling's homecoming, we actually moved into our new place.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: And it's interesting because I asked the Lord, I said, Why did we need to wait?
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: Because it was supposed to be ready.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know how houses are, they're supposed to be ready a lot sooner.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Why did we have to wait?
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, I needed you to finish your year there because we're starting a new thing.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's a new beginning, and I just loved that.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I could receive that because it's like, thank you, Lord, I appreciate that.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: Because he wanted it to be that that year to have its completion in our home, but our new place was ready within a couple of weeks to walk right into it.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 14:22
  Dr C: Thank you for sharing that strategy on how you, you know, using a the scale from one to five and letting everyone kind of talk about what they're feeling and how it's affecting them.
• 14:32
  Dr C: I I love that strategy.
• 14:34
  Dr C: I think so often during times of tragedy, we we tend to shut down and isolate and not talk to each other.
• 14:40
  Dr C: And so I really appreciate that.
• 14:42
  Dr C: Let's continue the how-to, right?
• 14:43
  Dr C: Let's really talk about these strategies because I think these actionable steps are going to be so valuable for our listeners.
• 14:50
  Dr C: So, Marcia, you talked about you mentioned the grievers often suffer from brain fog simply because they aren't breathing deeply.
• 14:58
  Dr C: Can you talk to us about the breathing and visualization techniques that you teach?
• 15:02
  Dr C: What are we inhaling and what are we releasing?
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: No, quite often you'll hear grievers say, I just I I I can't concentrate, my brain's foggy.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, it's because the brain is trying to process, but also grievers breathe very shallow.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of a survival.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's just, and and some people catch themselves gasping for air.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so what happens when we're not breathing is that we're not our body's not getting the oxygen it needs, therefore, our brain is not getting the oxygen it needs.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: So we do some diaphragmatic breathing techniques with our clients, and we teach them how to inhale and to inhale, counting five, hold for six, exhale for seven.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: And what we say is when you're breathing in, we want you to breathe in the newness, the life.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: When you're exhaling, exhale pain, exhale anger, exhale the sorrow, not all at once, but identify that one thing and exhale it.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: You may need to do this three or four times over that one thing.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: It may be five times and maybe what you're just focusing on, but continue.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: And when you're inhaling, receive the new life in your lungs.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: Let it replace the stale air and the pain that your lungs have taken in so that you can have that quality of oxygen to be able to operate from.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: And you're replacing those toxins with the proper oxygen that your body needs.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and we tell our clients do it when you wake up in the morning before you get out of bed.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of setting the brain.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to breathe because the morning's really hard for grievers.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's just we're at the same nightmare again and again.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's how grievers look at another day when they're in that freshness of it.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: So, what we say is when that image comes to your mind, we want you to inhale and we want you to find that that's sustaining life.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: For me, it was breathing in the very breath of Christ.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: But for some, it's breathing in the salty air at the beach, or that really fresh, crisp air when you go on a walk in the mountains, or you're going trailing.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: So we say visualize.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: A visualization is so important in this process, and then in the process of that, allow yourself in that space to then start doing that throughout the day.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: And at night, we tell our reapers, always end your day in the same way you started because you want to release if you, you know, because we want them to get up to doing this multiple times during the day so that they're getting oxygen not just once and twice a day, but they're getting it throughout.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like at lunchtime, maybe before lunch or after lunch, take time and do that so that you are actually making sure that you're staying connected with the breathing and you're able to inhale the freshness of life and that you're exhaling the toxins that have built up between those hours from waking up and where you are now.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so we want them to live with that intention in the breathing space, but it's also retraining the brain from focusing solely on the loss and the sorrow and the pain.
• 18:44
  Dr C: So a lot of us spiral into guilt, and you know, we have all these in inner inner statements I could have done more, I should have done more, you know, all these things that we believe we could have done differently.
• 18:58
  Dr C: You have a specific technique for stopping that spiral.
• 19:03
  Dr C: So when the lies come into our minds, what is the question we need to ask ourselves instead?
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: Is that really true?
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: Because quite often, and first of all, the if I shoulda, coulda, woulda, that is a death sentence to every person that goes down that path.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: There is nothing that any of us can do to change the time of someone's exit.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: And we have to understand that our day was created when we would be born, it was created when we would take our last breath.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: And to be able to release that, because what you're doing is you're taking on to me this sovereignty that you don't have, this control that you don't have.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you stop and say, could I really have done anything?
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: Is that true?
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: Then how does that make you feel?
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: And quite often people go, I feel relieved.
• 20:15
  Dr C: For anyone dreading the first holiday, the first birthday, any tradition, right?
• 20:23
  Dr C: That might feel too heavy.
• 20:25
  Dr C: What would you give what what kind of advice would you give them to to handle these, you know, these moments?
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: We really try to help our clients be intentional to be intentional for the first, all the first.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna use my family as an example.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: After Sterling passed, we I sat with intention and said to the family, we need to go on and think about some of the first that are coming upon us and what we want to do.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so for the holidays, we did not stay in our house those that year.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: We went and did something in memory, but also being away from the house put us in a different space.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: So when we did have moments, and we did, that we weren't sorrowing and we weren't just grieving, we weren't surrounded by the things that could trigger us deeper.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: And initially my family did a little pushback, and I said, This is really important.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think we really need it, and every one of them if they came in here, would say it was the best thing we ever did.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: And for his one year anniversary of going home, we actually threw a party and we had some friends come and we celebrated his homecoming.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: With intention.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think that has to be part of it.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: That he's gone, but he has these friends.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: They're still grieving.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: Let's have a party.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: Because if he were here, he would love that.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: And we did those things with birthdays and Christmas and you know Easter.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: We had friends that came over to our clubhouse and we enjoyed the afternoon together, being with them.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think you have to make sure that you're doing those things.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: And we were at we were there at our house, but we weren't in our house.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that if people sit down and they work together, because we did this as a family.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: Where do we want to go?
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: Where do we want to be?
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: What do we want to do for his birthday?
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: What do we want to do for you know his homecoming day?
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: So again, I want to encourage people to be intentional about that first year.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because what happens if you're not, it comes upon you.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then you find yourself in this pit.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: And why do I know that?
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because I talk to my clients, and this there's some that have been in that pit because they didn't know to be intentional.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: And you're like, man, I wish I had done that because I just felt like I was being sucked in.
• 23:20
  unknown: Yeah.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: And it was so overwhelming.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so you're just taking a step away.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it's kind of stepping away and having a new breath, a new place to breathe from, and then coming back.
• 23:34
  Dr C: It sounds like creating new traditions to honor honor your family member or you know, someone who's no longer with you, but also in a way where you're celebrating their life.
• 23:46
  Dr C: So it's it's a new, a new day, a new tradition, right?
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: It is.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the other thing because we have people sit down and decide what is it that this year we can forsake, but what is something new that we can embrace?
• 24:02
  unknown: Yeah.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: And see, I think grief is an exchange.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think we have to give over in order to receive something back.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: We have to release something to get something back.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't mean that you can't go back and do some of those traditions later, but maybe this year, maybe next year is not the best year.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: And to find the things that really minister to your soul and your families in that time.
• 24:34
  Dr C: So we've talked about strategies, some strategies that people can utilize in the moment immediately.
• 24:39
  Dr C: So thank you for that.
• 24:40
  Dr C: If we think about evolving and making this sustainable, you've talked about a coin, the the coin of joy and sorrow.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 24:51
  Dr C: How do we get to a place where we can hold both, where the memory of a loved one brings a smile rather than just pain?
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we again have to, if we're feeling sorrow, we acknowledge it, we release, we let ourselves experience it in the moment.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: And we do something in the sanctuary we call scheduled grieving, so that people can grieve at certain times.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: And if this comes up, you allow yourself 10 minutes, 15 minutes, and then you return to joy.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: And how do you return to joy?
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: You incorporate their memories right in here, you incorporate the situation and the person so that it moves forward with you.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: You're never you're not leaving someone or a situation really in when I say that because people are experiencing health issues too.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: You're not leaving them, you're incorporating and moving forward with, and I just think that's beautiful.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: And you hold space.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: I have a space in my heart for my first son and my second son, and one that is a shared space for both.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: Because sometimes I just need to grieve the one son or the other son.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I really struggled with this at one point, and I was like, I need it, and then I felt guilty because I wasn't grieving the other one.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: And the Lord said, I have a space for each.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so let's work from the one space that's each.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: And if you have a shared space, here's this one.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I can do that now and and release that pain and return to joy because I have all these amazing memories.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we have to go back to in this space where there is sorrow and joy, you need to have a gratitude list of the things you are thankful for because that is what helps us return to joy.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't, so I know my gratitude, like I have an abundant gratitude list because one, I'm thankful that God chose me to be my son's mom, and that he chose them for me to have as sons.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: And there's so many things, and I write those things down, and they've become part of my experience that I'm so thankful for the deposits made from each of my life and the shared experiences, and so if you do that, it becomes more attainable because now you have that, you're not reaching out to find it because you're in the midst of pain.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: When we're in the midst of pain, it's a really hard time.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: But in when we're not to sit down and just think of all the things that you can give thanks for in and of that situation, and then incorporate it within that memory place.
• 27:58
  Dr C: Yeah, you know, I always say that I'm so thankful for my dad because he chose me.
• 28:05
  Dr C: He's my stepfather, but he chose me, right?
• 28:08
  Dr C: He chose to love me as a father, and there was never any distinction between me and his biological children.
• 28:16
  Dr C: So I always hold on to that as I'm so grateful for that.
• 28:20
  Dr C: I'm so grateful to have had him in my life to have experienced that.
• 28:24
  Dr C: So thank you for that because I do believe that there's an opportunity for us to find joy and kind of you know push the grief aside a little bit, right?
• 28:36
  Dr C: Where you can say, I'm I wish they were still here, but oh, how wonderful it was that they were.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: But it's not pushing it, it is stepping into it, it's releasing it, it is releasing it, and then you're able to receive the joy back of those shared memories and the gratitude that you can experience.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's important because the pushing is a function aspect.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: Function wants to push it because function doesn't want to deal with the reality of the emotion.
• 29:14
  Dr C: Thank you for the language, because I think it's very important too.
• 29:17
  Dr C: The words we use are so important, they have so much power.
• 29:19
  Dr C: So I appreciate you correcting that because I do believe that that is a pivotal distinction, right?
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of well, and I think it is for all grievers because I think they think if I push it, then I can enter.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, no, I don't want you to push.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to enter because, see, if you're pushing it, then it goes in the body and it's going in the mind, and then it's all lining up, and now we're back at this place where the toxins are starting to seep in.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: So we want to enter it in that moment.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I, if you don't mind, I'm just gonna share something with you.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: I guess it was Sunday.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: My youngest son, who's 24, we were having a date day together, and we were in the car and we loved music and we were listening to music, and I mean, my faucet of my eyes turned on and they would not stop.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, I tears just kept coming and coming and coming, and finally, and I'm dabbing, and you know, but I'm entering in that space, and my son looked at me and he said, Mom, are you thinking of Sterling?
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: I said, I really wasn't, but my body was, and I'm just releasing because Sterling's homecoming is this Sunday.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, and so I hadn't had any intention of that, and these things come out of nowhere, and I entered in that place, I just cried in the car, just let it out.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: My son was so sweet, he was loving on me and just precious because that, and then I was like, Lord, thank you for the times that Sterling and I and all of us could share in enjoying music, and because a lot of the music we were listening to, which we listen to it often, but for some reason my body was feeling it, and I need everyone to understand our bodies somewhat pivot around these anniversary times, it knows it's in tune with it.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have to think about it, I don't have to set it into it's there, but how I handle it makes all the difference in the world, yeah.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, wow.
• 31:37
  Dr C: Woo! So you have definitely dropped a lot of jewels, pearls of wisdom.
• 31:45
  Dr C: If you could leave our listeners with one mantra to hold on to when they feel like they can't go on, what would it be?
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: That they can breathe again, live again, and live again in their creative design, and that grief does not get to have the last word.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: They do.
• 32:05
  Dr C: I love that.
• 32:06
  Dr C: We have power, we have control, we have agency.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: And if with intentionality there is healing, time will never heal, but their intention will heal them if they set into the places to be healed.
• 32:23
  Dr C: So, Marsha, you have a book called Gripping Gripping Grace in the Garden of Grief.
• 32:28
  Dr C: Can you tell us a little bit about that book?
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, that book is really a very raw visceral account of my own loss, and it's walking through pretty much all the first, but also there's a return to joy and the beauty that comes from the Ashheen.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: And there are pictures in the book that really minister to the soul in correlation with the writing, because those pictures were given to me by the Lord when I cried out in those moments, and I love photography, and I cannot even begin to tell you the beautiful backdrops he gave me in those moments to say this is a gift from you, and so I did not intend on publishing that book, but was led to do so, and it has been called a companion to grievers because it is a place where grievers can know that someone is experiencing the same depth of pain, but also have the hope.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: And in that book, there are questions so that the griever can really be intentional with their own grief story, and there's a place, you know, at the end that really talks about the treasures that we get to come out of from the dark, and so there's a multitude of treasures that I felt I walked out with, and I wrote those down.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I really encourage people write down your treasures from the dark.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: Write them down.
• 34:16
  Dr C: I love that.
• 34:18
  Dr C: Write down your treasures from the dark.
• 34:23
  Dr C: Marcia, where can people find you?
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: You can go online and we're at www.thlingrose sanctuary.us and there's a form that if you want to send it in, we're fairly quick within 24 hours getting back to people to set something up.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: And the book is on our website as well as on Amazon, and we just really want to encourage all people that you can heal and you can have the experience of life in newness.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's not gonna be where you were because we don't want to go there, it's gonna be from doing a new thing, living a new thing.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the butterfly, it has to pump its wings when it comes out of the cocoon, and we've got to pump our wings and then take flight.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I want everyone to know they can pump those wings and take flight.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you for having this tough conversation because so many shy away from the conversation that involves pain and grief because it's not a it's not always a feel-good story.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: But the reality is we're all facing death at some point, and we're gonna face it multiple times.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_00: So why not be equipped?
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: Why not be ready?
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: And to know how to navigate in the midst of it.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:55
  Dr C: Marcia, thank you.
• 35:56
  Dr C: Uh I I I'm I'm a little speechless, I'm a little overwhelmed, to be perfectly honest with you.
• 36:01
  Dr C: Um, I just truly am grateful that we had this time together, that we were able to have this conversation.
• 36:07
  Dr C: I know, I know for a fact that our listeners are going to find this episode to be very helpful with some core strategies on what they can do to start healing, start living, and start becoming the new them without fear or without guilt of leaving their loved one behind.
• 36:27
  Dr C: And that is the that is the hope that you've given me today as well.
• 36:30
  Dr C: So thank you very much.