Latest / Found in Interpretation Podcast / Ep. 45 - Sandra Giroux on Mentorship, Ethics, and Staying Calm in Court

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Ep. 45 - Sandra Giroux on Mentorship, Ethics, and Staying Calm in Court · Found in Interpretation Podcast

0:00
Hello, hello and welcome to another episode of found in
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interpretation podcast. Once again I'm one of your Co
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hosts unable to and I'm here Brian.
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Brian, how you doing? I'm doing great.
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Thank you. And we're also joined here today
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with Sandra Drew. How are you, Sandra?
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I'm doing well. Thank you very much for having
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me today. Our pleasure.
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Now don't forget everyone. Like, share and subscribe.
0:26
Now let's kick it. OK, so we'll start with the
0:40
intro. So Sandra Giroud is a Florida
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Certified Court Interpreter, passionate, passionate mentor to
0:49
aspiring court interpreters, and founder of Linguine Lingua Maya
0:56
Press. She holds a Bachelors in English
1:00
and a Masters in Spanish and a Certificate in Translation and
1:04
Interpreting. With over 20 years as a foreign
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language educator, she now specializes in court
1:12
interpreting and legal translation.
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She is a member of the American Translators Association, the
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National Association of Judiciary Interpreters and
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Translators, and the American Association of Interpreters and
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Translators in Education, and is currently preparing to publish 2
1:34
manuscripts. First, a guide for future court
1:38
interpreters and a personal story called Always Forever
1:44
Friends. You can learn more at
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linguamaya.com. Did I miss anything?
1:52
No, everything is perfect. So can you tell us a bit about
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how you started your career as an interpretation?
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In interpretation, um, years ago when I went to school College in
2:12
Ecuador, South America, I started a bachelor in languages
2:18
to major in English. And when we had all the students
2:23
were gathered at the auditorium. I saw an interpreter, stand up
2:30
interpreter who interpreted everything in English.
2:34
And I said I want to do that. And I did not realize that what
2:41
I was going to study, because that was, that was when I
2:45
entered college. Um, he was to be a teacher of
2:50
English as a foreign language, not as an interpreter.
2:54
And then over 20 years past, and I had the opportunity when I
3:01
heard, though I had been a teacher all those years.
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And then when I lived in Tampa, FL, I heard that Mary Aponte was
3:11
offering classes or sessions to introduce court interpretation
3:17
to the public. So I said this is my chance, I
3:20
want to learn about it. And I did.
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And she was my mentor and I learned.
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I did my observations, not 21 hours, but many, many hours to
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overcome the feeling of intimidation when you are in a
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courtroom. And I didn't until I mastered it
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and I loved it. So I have to say thank you to
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Maria Ponte, my mentor at that time and now.
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And I am a mentor to aspiring court interpreters.
3:59
Excellent. So, um, so you have your
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inspiration from back then and then you're now using that to
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help our colleagues in the court interpretation specifically or
4:10
other, yes. OK, interpretation, yes.
4:14
And specifically in Florida or throughout the United States or?
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It's nationwide nowadays, yeah. We use Zoom or just emailing
4:26
Here's nationwide yes. Excellent.
4:29
And what, what does Manchurian look like?
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Is it, are you applying the same methods that Maria Ponta did for
4:35
you or you like personalizing it or, or how does that look?
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What does that look like? Well, we, we grew in our
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different styles. We have different styles of
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teaching and what does it look like mentoring what this is
4:53
nationwide. It could be worldwide.
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Yes, there are students who are planning to come to the US to
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live in the US and work as court interpreters like you.
5:07
They can always reach out. But basically it's for the US
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because almost all states except one in our kahuna, they, the
5:19
United States, follows the same procedures.
5:22
We don't follow the same procedures with other countries
5:25
because that's the judicial system there is and the laws are
5:30
applied differently. But yeah, it can be 21 in this
5:34
country. OK.
5:38
So, um, you and so when you say you mentor, is it something that
5:46
you advertise all the time or is it more on a one-on-one basis
5:52
when someone approaches you? I have to advertise it so that
5:57
people get to know where to find me.
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And it is a one-on-one approach because being remote, you know,
6:09
nationwide, it accommodates to different people's schedules and
6:14
location, and it's easier to do it one-on-one and in writing.
6:21
And is it and language specifically or is it just the
6:26
OR is it also including like the way that you should present
6:30
yourself in court or what? What exactly does the mentorship
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include? Yeah, it covers him in the
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scope, right. The covers it covers what we has
6:43
court interpreters need to know, which is general vocabulary,
6:48
legal vocabulary, legal proceedings, how to navigate
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courtroom proceedings, ethical responsibilities, different
7:00
scenarios, and then you apply a six on the job, different ways
7:08
to deal with problems that may arise.
7:12
So do you still do court interpretation or you
7:14
specifically focus on mentoring? Right now I'm just mentoring.
7:19
OK. Sounds good.
7:21
And then so you're mentoring 4 court interpreters throughout
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the country and in English and Spanish, like in your languages
7:28
or in many different languages? It is language neutral since my
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approach is basically to the beginning of their career.
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Because many uh, people or students who want to start, if
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they try to do all this process alone, it's kind of
7:52
discouraging. You need a mentor.
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And yeah, that covers that part, the initial, but I can go
8:02
throughout the whole process except for preparation for the
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oral exam. I prepare them to pass their
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written exam, which is the first one, but not to the oral exam
8:14
because I have many colleagues out there who already have
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dedicated resources to prepare students to pass that second
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exam. And then the rest I can continue
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with mentees and they reach out to me anytime, whenever they
8:33
want. I they they don't follow the
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whole process. They come and go as they need
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me. I see.
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So it's on an as needed basis. Is there like do they have to
8:45
register to be I guess on in your?
8:51
Then yeah, they they sent me an e-mail and then I tailor the
8:59
mentorship to their needs. So that's basically they send me
9:03
an e-mail is the first contact and then we see if the person
9:08
wants to continue. We do.
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If no, I respond to the questions they may have and if
9:15
they feel comfortable to go ahead on their own, then they do
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it. If no, I work with them
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throughout the process. And what do court interpreters
9:26
need the most? Is it's more like
9:29
self-confidence or um, to know the, the legal proceedings in
9:33
the United States? Yes, they need to know the
9:38
principles of professional ethics like accuracy,
9:43
confidentiality and and many other skills like the ability to
9:50
stay calm in corporate settings, the ability to recognize that
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they are not part of the proceedings.
10:00
They are conduits of the proceedings so that the
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defendant understands was going on and the judge also
10:09
understands what the witnesses or the defendant says to them.
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Can you explain the difference between being part and being a
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conduit? Because I've never done court
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interpreting inside of a trial and at first I would have
10:27
imagined that I would have been part of it.
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As a conduit, you're still part of it because every once in a
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while the judge can interact with the interpreter school.
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Can you can you help me distinguish the difference?
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You are not a part. I meant to say you another party
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like the defendant, the defence and the prosecution, the judge.
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You are not a party to the case. So there are cases when that
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they are very intense that if you are not strong enough, you
11:04
cry with them because of the, you know, emotionally,
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emotionally charged situations. But you have to remember as a
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court interpreter that you are not a party.
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You are there to interpret. That's all.
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That's, that's how you are a conduit that you just convey
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meanings, you know, between Paris and and that's it.
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And also you are an officer of the court.
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That is true. You are physically present
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there, but ironically you have to be kind of invisible because
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like when interpreters interpret for other defendants through
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equipment, you know, let's say I have a microphone and the
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defendant has headsets and that person hears me and is speaking
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very, very low volume voice. The only the defendant can hear
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me. I don't interrupt the
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proceedings. The lawyers, the parties are
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speaking and just transmitting or conveying what is being said.
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That's all. So it's simultaneous inside
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court interpreting, yes, rather than consecutive.
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Consecutive is used for witness testimony.
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That is the the case when it is used or also for mediations.
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That is different settings though.
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Now, is there something for in the United States for judges and
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lawyers to have some professional development on how
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to work with interpreters? Do you know anything about that?
12:45
Yes, yes, there are guidelines that have been written by the
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state, in my case by the state of Florida and the other states
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also either States. And there is a big book, the
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benchmark for judges and the judges are the ones who have it
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so that they read and learn how to work with us.
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But there are also court interpreters that are very
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proactive in putting together programs to teach judges in case
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that they haven't gotten acquainted with that benchmark
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about how to work with them. Because many things are
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theoretical and, you know, at the time of, let's say, a trial,
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we don't think of theory. We need to get them acquainted
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of how we work. That if the proceedings are
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getting too fast, is gonna be a challenge for the interpreter.
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And there are ways to tell the judge who to ask the speaker,
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like the attorney, to slow down so that the interpreter can do
14:03
their job. OK.
14:06
Well, I'm guessing the more the the the side that is not as
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familiar would be let's say the defendants lawyer, because maybe
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let's say the prosecutor gets to prosecute and interacts with
14:25
interpreters, but as a defendant maybe they're not always used to
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it. Is that assumption right?
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That's right, that's right. And they, they learn as they go.
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They they don't realize that sometimes they speak too fast
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and we need them to slow down. So the interpreter asks the
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judge to instruct the attorney to slow down so that the
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interpreter can do their job. And that's how we deal with each
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other. OK.
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And how long were you in court interpreter before you became a
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mentor? What about six years?
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Six years, OK. No court interpreter now is a
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little over. That was within the judicial
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circuit, but before that I did a freelance work as a court
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interpreter. About two years is a short
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career for me because I was mostly in education and that's
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why I love to teach, to mentor others and but I got it quickly
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when I got into interpretation. I loved it and I yeah, I wanted
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to go in. Is it the reason why you moved
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from Ecuador to to Florida or? No, no, no, I move because I
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have my closest family here in Florida.
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I see. OK, OK.
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Were you an interpreter in Ecuador as well or no?
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No, no, I was a teacher. You are a teacher in Equilar, OK
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and Quito. No, and why you kill.
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And why you kill? OK cool.
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I've always wanted to go to Ecuador.
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I've been to Peru, which is just S, but never.
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Requires very similar, very nice country.
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Yeah, yeah, I hear beautiful things.
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And so, yeah. So that you you did six years of
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court interpretation and that you did mentorship and how how
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old is your agency, the mentorship agency?
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His new is he's just a few months old.
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Wow, just a few months. Wow.
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And yeah. And how's enrollment looking?
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As I said, they come and go, they contact me a lot through
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e-mail the way it's supposed to be.
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And then for the most part while I'm doing this as a full time
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job now, full time freelance professional and he's being more
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as needed as they need that I am.
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I also mentored aspiring court interpreters within the judicial
16:59
circuit and that I was more of a study group that I had.
17:05
So it's very different from like a structured say like a
17:08
university program where like people have to come for specific
17:12
courses and follow courses and and pass an exam and the
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mentorship it's more like. Yeah, formal.
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Yeah, more informal. Like you come and go as you
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please and when you need it. It is.
17:27
You're there kind of like to help them support them and and
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like you're offering that that crutch in case something
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happens. Yes, it is.
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However, while I was was a staff interpreter within the judicial
17:40
circuit, I did launch a program nationwide via Zoom.
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This the structure of a college class with a syllabus and
17:51
everything with tests with UM there are a lot of similarities
17:59
with college classes and that lasted about 5 months and a
18:04
half. And I did have Mary Aponte in my
18:07
initial. My mentor when I started she Co
18:11
taught with me. I asked her to join me and she
18:14
did a great job with me. And so you said that in the
18:20
beginning. You said that you tailor to
18:23
every individual need. But can you?
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You must still have a structure in order to prepare um your
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mentees. What is the structure?
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Yeah, there are steps that they need to take.
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But some of the thing when I said as they're they need is
18:45
because some of them have already taken the first step and
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they just need clarification of some proceedings or procedures.
18:55
Excuse me, but the structure is they first register for the
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orientation workshop. They have to follow the
19:07
instructions from the state, from the office that regulates
19:12
court interpretation in their state and that they post a
19:17
calendar of events and they attend those two days for
19:21
orientation. And once they finish, they
19:24
conclude that part. Then they register to take the
19:29
written exam and for that they need preparation about 3 months
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maybe or two. It depends on each person,
19:38
depending on the, the, the time that they have.
19:40
So the structure goes on like that.
19:43
They prepare, they focus only on learning that vocabulary kind of
19:51
the, the one they use for SAT or ACT exams for college
19:57
admissions. And they need to learn.
20:00
We learn together the the legal. Settings.
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The Ethics and all that is part of the written exam, and that's
20:12
why I have the book coming up that I wrote because I know what
20:18
they need and they don't waste time going here and there not
20:23
knowing what to read or what to learn.
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That book has what they need. So once they pass written, then
20:31
they start their preparation for the oral exam, which typically
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takes about six months. I would say six months because
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his, his heart, you guys are interpreters too.
20:43
And you, they need to know or train the brain to those
20:46
simultaneous interpretation, consecutive hand side
20:51
translation. So they don't learn that in one
20:54
month or two months. It takes about 6 at least.
20:58
And then they go take the exam and, and then they, they do the
21:04
registration with the state in order to have credentials.
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And then after that they get their their certification and,
21:14
and things like that. Yeah, it is structured.
21:18
And the, the, and this is, you were mentioning it, this is the
21:22
guide for future court interpreters, right?
21:26
Correct. And there is another book, or is
21:32
it more like a, I'm not sure if it's a book, but the
21:36
publication, which is a personal story that you call Always
21:43
Forever Friends. Does that have anything to do
21:46
with interpretation or nothing, Nothing, nothing.
21:49
OK, nothing at all. No, no, no.
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Why? What happens is this?
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That is something I was raised, already finished and I published
22:01
the ebook for now. I started writing that story two
22:06
years ago in my free time. I have to link this to the fact
22:11
that for 18 years I, I have been working freelance on the side
22:18
with a literary author, Patricia Eckenrode.
22:22
And I guess I got knowledge from her about how to write fiction.
22:28
And this is this is this is story that I wrote is not
22:31
fiction, is a real story, but it's considered fiction because
22:36
dogs don't speak any my story dogs too.
22:39
So it is a tribute to the joy and love and friendship that
22:46
stays with you and that the characters.
22:50
This person is personified by Rusty and Heidi, my beloved
22:56
dogs, who they changed my life. So they gave me so many things
23:01
to write about. And I said I have to write this.
23:04
I have to apply what I have learned.
23:07
But this is something close to my heart for which I did not
23:11
need schooling really. It's just something that came
23:15
naturally and and Linguini oppressed.
23:19
So came naturally as a branch of Lingua Mea as a way to give
23:26
voice and sponsorship to the books and writing because I like
23:31
to write. The thing is, before I was
23:33
always an employee and I never had the time to do it, but I do
23:39
have now all the time. Wow, cool.
23:42
Now you at the beginning of our podcast, you're talking about
23:45
how intimidating, intimidating a court setting is.
23:48
And I can relate just from doing like mock trials and when I'm
23:54
doing conference interpretation and that kind of thing.
23:57
Is that what inspired you to become a mentor?
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Is that intimidation factor that comes with being in a court
24:03
setting? Yes, yes, that's that's a good
24:06
point because I know how it feels to to to try to be a court
24:12
interpreter. You know that that would be like
24:14
a road block at the beginning. OHT no, they go try doing that
24:19
20 hours of observation and they see too intimidating.
24:23
They probably lose courage And and no, that's why I'm here
24:27
because I went through that and I didn't care.
24:30
I said this is intimidated, but I want to do it and I want to
24:35
learn more about this because it's fascinating.
24:38
If you think about that, viewing mirrors into it, it is
24:43
fascinating and is not for everyone.
24:45
I know is everyone has an area, you guys do conference right and
24:51
others to judicial and others do medical.
24:54
So we all have an area. What would you think?
24:58
What would you say is the main trait that you need to have in
25:04
order to be a good court interpreter?
25:08
Main trade, the ability to always be learning and always
25:16
stay calm because there are going to be very intense
25:22
situations in court and there is, there is a lot, there is a
25:27
lot involved. But by the court interpreters or
25:32
any interpreter have to be constantly learning vocabulary
25:37
especially and the ability to apply professional ethics
25:42
because that is what that's what is going to come up when we are
25:47
in court and we need to know what to do in this situation or
25:51
in the other. We need to be able to learn how
25:54
to navigate that. Cool.
25:57
I, I feel like we should get a T-shirt says stay calm and
26:00
interpret on or something like that because it's, it's so it's
26:04
so true. The whole calm aspect, like if
26:07
you start panicking and conference interpretation too,
26:09
like you, you're going to make some mistakes and, and so it's
26:14
so important just to remain calm and to keep interpreting and go
26:18
with the flow and, and that kind of thing.
26:20
So. Yeah, but if you're nervous, you
26:21
don't listen. No, exactly exactly that.
26:24
That's another good point that you have.
26:27
Remember, um, you have to focus, right?
26:32
If you think at that moment of what you are going to have for
26:36
dinner, you lost it in a few seconds, in a, in a split
26:41
second, you lose what is going on.
26:44
So we need to be able to stay focused.
26:47
Especially on land I we're always thinking about food so.
26:50
Oh yeah, I'm always, whenever Brian's trying to reach out to
26:53
me, I was like, I'm cooking right now.
26:54
I mean, or mostly I'm eating. I'm eating right now.
26:59
Yeah, yeah. So go ahead, Ella.
27:03
Please. OK.
27:05
So the book basically, is it about all the different
27:09
procedures that exist in the courtroom or is there also part
27:14
of the mentorship that you give or can you explain a bit what
27:17
the the book entails? And it you said it's, is it a
27:20
ebook right now or is it going to be published soon?
27:23
For corporate style, I mean for mentorship, yeah, for aspiring
27:28
courts interpreters is that one is is upcoming.
27:31
It's not out yet, but is soon to come.
27:35
Is being reviewed. At this point the manuscript has
27:39
been reviewed and once my last reviewer finishes then I will
27:43
publish it. You guys saw on link, was it
27:47
today on LinkedIn that you put the the cover?
27:50
Yes, yesterday. Yeah, OK.
27:52
Yesterday. OK.
27:53
Yeah, yeah, it's a it's a coincidence that you know the
27:56
timing when like this that now is almost ready, it's time to
28:00
promote it for at least two weeks.
28:03
And I want to let people know that they do have a guide and in
28:09
including even for other mentors, they can use it to
28:14
follow the structure that that they need to share with their
28:19
mentees. And is it a guide specifically
28:25
for your jurisdiction in Florida or is it something that even US
28:31
in Canada could use? Yeah, I, I would say for the
28:36
United States, I don't know how the judicial system is in
28:40
Canada. If it is similar to the one in
28:43
the US, it would work, yes. That's why I wrote it for anyone
28:48
in this country. If Canada has the various, I
28:53
mean the same system as we do, he could work it.
28:57
But I tell my students in the book that there are some, there
29:04
are certain laws that may be different from state to state.
29:09
They would have to double check that part.
29:12
But basically because of the reciprocity that there is in
29:18
court interpreting, then it applies to any state.
29:22
Yeah, the principles, ethics, vocabulary, all that applies.
29:26
I think that the biggest difference between Canada and
29:29
Oasis that in the US, I think you're still use a gavel, right.
29:33
We don't have. We don't use gavels here.
29:36
Ohv interesting when you see a lot.
29:39
Yes clean. We use it as a logo sometime.
29:42
Oh yeah, yeah, definitely. But yeah, we have it by judicial
29:46
system in, in Canada. So Quebec uses mostly the Civil
29:49
Code and the civil law and then the rest of the Canada, English
29:53
speaking Canada uses common law. So that's that's a big
29:56
difference and even within our own country.
30:00
Yeah. OK, OK.
30:02
I will have to look into that. But.
30:06
Bad things. I do find a lot of the people
30:09
who write books and are interpreters or translators are
30:11
doing it for a public good. Like it.
30:15
It's something that you're that that you've been wanting to give
30:19
to your community for some time and it's like you finally found
30:22
the time to do it, I guess. Yes.
30:25
And as I learned this from Corinne, Corinne McKay, I have
30:29
to say this by the way, that. I was thinking of her just that
30:33
that's that's. Who also launched a book.
30:37
Hmm, yes, yes. And I had to let go of my job
30:42
that I love in February because I, I, I, I lost a vocal cord in
30:50
a surgery. So I I had that decided to
30:55
continue teaching. He was born in like a flame.
30:58
Then I I was free, totally free, 100% putting now to do what?
31:04
What am I going to do with this knowledge as a court interpreter
31:08
and as a mentor? And then I came across her book,
31:12
How to Succeed as a Freelance Translator.
31:17
And yeah, the other one, the. Other one, yes, yeah.
31:20
Yeah, that's a good. That must be why I haven't read
31:22
that one. But but as a freelance
31:24
translator, say, OK, I'm gonna have to do more translation than
31:28
interpretation cause I I couldn't do simultaneous
31:31
anymore. It felt like trying to run a
31:34
marathon with one leg. And when I did simultaneous, I
31:39
said there is no way. And so I read her book.
31:44
And that book spoke directly to me.
31:48
It offered not only encouragement but also practical
31:52
steps to shape a freelance career.
31:57
And that was the spark I I built my website, but after that I
32:03
knew what to do. I build my website in May and I
32:08
think I started in May and and I started to create the resources
32:14
that I knew aspiring court interpreters need and I posted
32:19
them on their website how they are available.
32:22
And I also thought about the book because I did have a
32:25
program while I mentor to aspiring court interpreters in
32:31
court, in the judicial court. I said I'm gonna have to put
32:35
this in writing, available for anyone who needs it.
32:44
Yeah, you can let me know when when it comes out.
32:47
I will be one of your fellow purchasers followers, I think,
32:54
yeah, everyone. I think I have books from pretty
32:56
much everyone who's been on our podcast and have written a book,
33:01
so. Oh, you gotta have them.
33:04
Yes, Yeah, I will post it on on social media and we'll let you
33:10
know. Yes, we'll be able to put it put
33:14
it also when the time comes and the description of this episode.
33:19
Yes, how to purchase it and. Yeah, that would be nice.
33:23
Thanks. So we're hitting the end mark
33:28
for this episode. It was quite interesting.
33:32
I've learned a lot about court interpreting in Florida and
33:36
mentorship. Look forward to reading either
33:42
one or perhaps even both of your upcoming books.
33:50
Yeah, they went with was always forever friends.
33:53
You will laugh and maybe you will save a few tears.
33:59
It is entertaining. All right, well, I really look
34:02
forward to reading it, and perhaps we'll be able to do even
34:07
a book review when the time comes.
34:08
Yeah. Thank you.
34:09
I would appreciate. That and thank you so much for
34:12
accepting our invitation. Thank you for having me.
34:15
All right, everyone, so once again, thank you for showing up.
34:19
Don't forget to like, share and subscribe, and we'll see each
34:25
other some other time for another episode of Found in
34:29
Interpretation podcast. Thanks.