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Transcript

Building Bold Brands: How Jonathan Halley Turned Big Slate Media into a Creative Powerhouse · We Built This Brand

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  Part of how we get there is having good core leadership that's like,
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  "I'm not the one making all the decisions, and I have to be okay
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  with, you know, maybe some missteps or somebody doing something that
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  I would have done it differently." And what I've found in that is
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  that oftentimes they're doing it better than I would have done it.
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  Welcome to We Built This Brand, where we pull back the
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  curtain on the people, the ideas, and the sometimes
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  challenging process of building something that matters.
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  Today, I'm joined by Jonathan Hally, a good
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  friend of mine and the founder of Big Slate Media.
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  Now, Jonathan started this business more than a decade ago
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  and has built it into one of the region's top video production
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  companies, working with the likes of Red Bull, Mike's Hard
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  Lemonade, Dude Wipes, and Raising Cane's all along the way.
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  If you're into media production, I think
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  you'll really enjoy this chat with Jonathan.
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  So without further ado, let's get into it
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  All right.
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  Well, welcome to We Built This Brand.
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  Um, Jonathan, it's great to have you with me.
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  Man, thanks for having me.
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  Yeah.
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  It's so cool to hang out.
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  Yeah, yeah.
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  It's so exciting to, like, we, we were just talking earlier
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  this week, and you were like, "Hey, when am I gonna be on?"
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  You were like, "How about tomorrow?" I was like, "Yeah, let's do it."
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  Yeah.
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  No, it's amazing.
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  Yeah.
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  I've been, I've been so… I've been waiting in the wings just quietly, like-
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  Mm-hmm
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  … maybe one day I'll get the honor, maybe one day.
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  Oh.
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  And then here it is.
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  Oh, yeah.
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  Well, I mean, I've, I've wanted to do this for some time.
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  Yeah.
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  So it's exciting that we're getting the chance to sit down and talk today.
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  I would say you're a few years ahead of me in terms of
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  owning a business by yourself and all that, and it's
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  cool to see what you've done with Big Slate Media.
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  So before we dive into Big Slate, let's-
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  let's kind of start back at the beginning.
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  How did you get to Big Slate Media?
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  How did all this start?
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  So the path to Big Slate really, uh, I'll start, like, high school.
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  We have a mutual friend, Steven Johnson, who, uh, you know, I kind
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  of spent a lot of time working with as- as a high school student.
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  And then, uh, we did a tech startup together.
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  Um, and then I dropped out of college to do that.
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  And then, uh, I… As things go, that it didn't
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  work out, tech startup in your early 20s.
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  And then I moved to Chattanooga for a bit, came back.
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  Uh, one of the guys that was involved in that tech startup, Jeremy Bergman, was
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  running a company called 245 Tech, which is a- Mm … a web development company.
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  Um, and I was- started there as kind of a project manager,
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  web developer, and then eventually went into sales there.
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  Had a great time.
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  And, uh, then while I was there, I bought a drone one day.
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  I spent my whole paycheck on a drone, and was like, "This is… I just
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  wanna do this. Like, this- it's- y- it's like video games. Like, you can go
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  anywhere." And this was 2015, so, like- Drones weren't really a thing yet.
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  Um, and I had a couple of, like, viral videos.
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  I took some risk and flew it in the snowstorm.
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  Uh, and then, yeah, that's kinda, I was like, "Man, I could do this."
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  And so originally partnered with, uh, Jeremy and his business partner,
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  Scott, um, to start Big Slate, and then shortly thereafter, Bottom Out.
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  So that's kinda the, that's kinda the, the down and dirty path to get here.
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  So a little unconventional, um, but yeah.
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  Oh, I think everybody's got a creative path that gets them from… Especially
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  if you are creative, like, you spend some time in other fields before you're
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  able to finally be like, "All right, I'm gonna launch into the thing I'm
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  really passionate about," or find a way to make it pay so that you can do it.
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  I met you, I remember, I mean, I've known you since you were little.
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  Um- Sounds like such an old man thing to say.
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  Like, for being s- for being as far advanced
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  in business as you are, I'm, I'm, I'm older.
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  And so it's just like, it's cool, and it's always just funny to me.
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  Like, um, I remember sharing, if you're okay with me sharing this- Yeah, sure
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  I remember sitting you, uh, out at the pool as a
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  lifeguard- Yeah … when you were a kid, 'cause you were
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  being, like, you were breaking the rules or something.
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  But- That sounds
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  right.
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  Yeah.
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  That sounds right.
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  Yeah.
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  And
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  it wasn't-
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  Disruptor from a young age.
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  Yeah, yeah.
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  Disruptor from a… That's a great way to put it.
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  Yes, I love that positioning.
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  It was a lot of fun.
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  Um, and then meeting, of course, kinda paths reconnecting at
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  245- Mm … 'cause we were doing some similar stuff, and I
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  was in the marketing side, you were doing web development.
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  We had a project together.
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  I'll never forget that pizza night.
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  Um-
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  But, um,
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  yeah.
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  Those were some good times.
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  Like, that, it was like the Wild West of, like-
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  development and, uh, anyway, we just had a great time.
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  It was, yeah, it was awesome.
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  It was a
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  lot of fun.
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  It
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  was a lot of fun.
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  L- good adventure there, and then seeing you kinda get to, um,
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  launching Big Slate and all that was its own adventure, and really
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  cool to see you kinda branch out and get to grow the way you have.
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  So-
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  Yeah
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  … it's been fun.
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  Appreciate that.
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  Yeah, yeah.
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  It's been
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  fun.
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  It's, I mean, I'll say the same thing.
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  Like, it's, you are the quintessential example of somebody who
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  has found something they're very passionate about and turned that
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  into a brand, then turned that into a, a successful business.
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  So it's, it's cool.
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  I've, we're in the same building, so I get to see some of it every now and then.
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  Yeah.
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  And it's cool to, like, yeah, be, yeah, be
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  adjacent to your story at the same time, so.
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  Well,
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  thank you.
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  Yeah.
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  Thank you.
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  It's awesome.
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  It's a cool place to be, and it, it's fun that we've had
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  this time together to, to be able to, like, share space
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  together, kinda work in proximity to each o- to each other.
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  It's been, it's been really fun.
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  So yeah, it's exciting.
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  So you started Big Slate.
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  O- once you got to the point where you were, um, launching the
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  company on your own, building it for yourself, you were free of the
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  245 Tech relationship, what was that like getting started in that?
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  The first word that comes to mind is scary.
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  Um, and granted, I was, I don't know, like 24, 20- I can't…
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  Yeah, somewhere around there, 24, 23.
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  And I, I didn't have a lot to lose, but it still felt scary.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  Um, and especially, like, that jump off of, like, hiring the first person and
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  realizing that, like, oh, it's not just my mortgage that's on the line here.
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  Now it's that person's as well.
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  That's, like, yeah, it was a scary moment, but also incredibly liberating.
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  From the time being a kid running around the pool
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  breaking the rules to, to, you know, now, uh, I've always
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  been… Not, I've, I've not had issues with authority.
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  My parents may say different, but I've not had issues with authority as much as,
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  like, I've just, I've, I've had visions and ideas, and I've, and I think that
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  unlock, uh, to take d- you know, the scary part also was opportunity, right?
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  That I, I could affect change, and that, that
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  feeling was, like, really cool to kind of unlock.
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  I was actually told before I started Humble Pod that I was a bad soldier.
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  That means you make a great entrepreneur.
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  Yeah.
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  That's exactly what it means.
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  Um, do you know Austin Church?
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  Yeah,
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  yeah.
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  He's the one who told me that.
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  Okay.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  And, and that was, that was a moment of re- revelation for me.
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  So I, I… It's okay if you had a problem with authority or something-
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  Yeah, yeah … 'cause that, I like, I identify with that- Yeah … closely.
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  Yeah.
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  It, I, I think every entrepreneur has some hardheadedness to it,
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  uh, uh, to them that it makes them have a higher tolerance for
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  risk, 'cause you're like, "It's, it's m- uh, this is my idea," Yeah
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  "so it's, you know, it's gonna be, it's on me."
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  And yeah, and, and hiring somebody for the first time, man.
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  That's, you realize I'm not just, I don't have one family anymore, I have two.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  At least.
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  Yeah.
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  And then you're providing for all those people.
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  Yeah.
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  It becomes a different animal.
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  Yeah.
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  A
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  different level of responsibility, different level
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  of mindset, so yeah, that is a big challenge.
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  You mentioned going viral.
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  Was that really what kind of, like, propelled the business forward?
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  Or what was it for you that you think really
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  helped Big Slate grow in those early years?
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  Two things.
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  Um, I do think that did help.
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  Real quick story on that was there was a big snowstorm that came to town,
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  and I took my drone and, uh, put it up in the snowstorm, filmed the,
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  you know, kind of all around Knoxville, but especially the, the stadium.
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  Uh, posted online, and didn't think anything of it,
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  and then it just, it was on… It was everywhere.
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  Uh, and so that, like, because of that, I became kind of the drone guy in town.
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  Uh, and so then, you know, people started calling, you know, for that reason.
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  And then I think the other kind of catalyst
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  for growth was the Knoxville Chamber.
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  They don't pay me to say this, but it, genuinely, I built the early stages
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  of this company on the events and the connections and the networking and
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  all that kind of stuff that they would do, and I did a lot of free work.
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  Um, not necessarily even for them, but just in general.
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  That, you know, built relationships, and business is all about relationships.
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  So those are the two kind of things that- Yeah, the viral video
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  helped to some extent, but then, you know, the, the j- networking and
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  just being everywhere all the time, uh, was, was, yeah, essential.
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  What's nice now is that they're an organization
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  that is, like, supporting economic development more.
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  And so at the stage that Big Slate's at now,
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  it's like, actually, that is what I need.
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  I need larger corporations to come in here-
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  Right … you know, so that we can have more local work.
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  So, um, all's worked out, but it's, it's, uh, there's, there's a need there.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  Um, the smaller business side of me is
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  like, "Yeah, I, I understand your qualms."
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  Well, and, and d- I, I, we don't have to get too far into this, but, like, the,
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  the Knoxville Entrepreneurship Center has really stepped up to kind of- Right
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  fill a lot of those- Mm-hmm … those gaps of networking and support.
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  So.
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  Yeah, yeah.
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  It's, yeah.
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  The ecosystem's changed, which is, I think, a good thing.
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  Yeah.
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  I think so.
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  And I mean, that, that was, I think, to a degree,
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  kind of how we, we recon- not reconnected.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  It sounds like we hadn't talked to each other in ages.
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  Well, it's not entirely-
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  Yeah
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  … untrue.
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  Yeah.
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  I mean, you went, you went to college, then I
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  kind of went to college, and then- Yeah … yeah.
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  Yeah, yeah.
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  But, but all that, that kind of is where
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  we, um, you know, got things moving again.
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  But so then you grew from there.
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  You, you had the economic development.
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  What would you say was the real first moment of, like,
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  validation in the business for you, where you were like,
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  maybe it's after you hired an employee or something like that.
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  But there's always that, um, that fear, undone,
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  uncertainty that comes with, you know, starting a business.
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  And then getting into it, you kind of get worried.
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  Uh, is this gonna pay the bills?
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  Like, when was that moment where you realized, "Okay,
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  this is moving forward. This is something real"?
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  I maybe have an u- unconventional answer to this 'cause there's not…
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  Like, I still, I think, probably every day- Mm … to some extent, still
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  go, "Is this viable? Is this the right thing?" And that's not, like, I'm not
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  downplaying the success and all of that, but I think it's, it sh- it speaks to,
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  like, my mindset of entrepreneurship, that it, like, it is constant evolution.
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  It's constant iteration, and that means change constant,
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  which means no consistency, which means no safety.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  Um, and I, I think I've found, like, at every level,
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  whether, you know, we have, what, 32 employees now.
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  From the first one to now, the hiring decision is still
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  as equally as, like, ooh, is this, should we do this?
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  Do we feel confident that- Right … we're gonna be able to, you know, sustain?
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  So the validation is that people keep showing up here- Mm-hmm
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  every day to work, uh, that we keep getting work, uh, from clients
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  that are, you know, they'll come in and work with us one time.
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  They'll keep coming back.
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  That's super validating.
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  Yeah.
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  Uh, there's not, like, a moment where I was like, "Okay, I have a business."
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  It's, it's kind of this constant worry that maybe I don't that's, that
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  is helping propel growth, and, like, there's an unhealthy, you know- Yeah
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  aspect of that that you can l- let, like, I could let
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  myself get to, but it's, instead of that, it's motivating.
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  I feel that.
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  Yeah, yeah.
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  I think everybody does.
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  Like, I, I think that's, that, like- Mm-hmm … you're building a brand.
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  Like, you're taking risk, and, like, that, there, there
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  is a level of discomfort in that, that if you wait for the
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  moment to be like, "Okay, I'm good now"- It will never come
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  No.
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  And you, you've gotta kinda be comfortable living
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  in that place of like existential fear and dread.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  I would say opportunity
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  and growth, but sure.
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  Yeah, this is the more cynical aspect of it.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah, much better spin on it.
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  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  But yeah, man, that's, that is, um, that's a great place to be.
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  And I mean, it's, it's, it's always a challenge.
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  But in growing the business, you've built a big brand.
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  I mean, Big Slate Media is well-known in Knoxville.
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  Everybody knows who you are.
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  Um, and how did you, like from a brand perspective,
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  how did you come up with the name Big Slate?
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  Originally, when I, actually when I did the drone video
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  that went viral, we were called Depth of Field Productions.
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  And, uh, it went viral, and somebody sued us- Oh … and was
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  like, "Hey, uh, that's my name already, and you can't use it." Oh.
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  So that's w- I was like, "Okay.
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  Well, I gotta change something.
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  Uh, so what's a production term?
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  Uh, oh, a slate.
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  That's kind of cool.
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  It has like a rock meaning.
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  Let's throw an adjective in front of that.
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  Big.
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  Sure.
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  All right.
• 12:01
  Great." That was it.
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  I wish there was some, this, this big evolution,
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  you know, uh, heartfelt intentionality.
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  But it was, yeah, it was a little bit of desperation,
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  uh, to, you know, adjust after a lawsuit.
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  And I'm friends with the person who, who,
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  uh, you know, sent the cease and desist now.
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  Oh, wow.
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  And we, we joke about it, and I, I have thanked him.
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  Now he, he is like, "You're welcome," like I, "that I did
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  that-" Mm-hmm … "so that you had to change the name."
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  Well, I mean, it, it helps because, like Big Slate, I
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  mean, Depth of Field, like that probably is a common
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  name, probably why he sues people for it, I would imagine.
• 12:36
  Sure, yeah.
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  Um, it's just one of those things.
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  I think it was, he was like on set, and people were like,
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  "Did you do this drone video?" And he was like, "No." Oh,
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  wow.
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  So it was, yeah,
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  it permeated.
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  Yeah, 'cause it, it made national news.
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  I mean, that's- Oh, yeah, yeah … a thing we haven't talked about.
• 12:49
  Yeah.
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  Like, it was a
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  big thing.
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  It was, yeah, and Lester Holt showed it-
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  That's right … on the NBC Nightly News.
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  I remember being like,
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  " Holy cow."
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  It was on Mashable and NCAA.
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  Like, yeah, it went, went all over.
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  That
• 13:00
  was back
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  in the day, before 2016, I believe.
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  Was that before, pre-2016?
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  That was, yeah, pr- it probably was 2016.
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  Oh, yeah.
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  Somewhere around that.
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  It was still when we had slow news days.
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  Yeah.
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  True.
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  Not, not to say anything about the quality
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  of the video.
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  Yeah, what are you saying?
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  It was a great video.
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  It was a great
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  video.
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  But it, you know, you put something like that on the national
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  news at the end because there's nothing else to cover in the news.
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  They're like, "What, what, like light thing can
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  we put in the news to make everybody happy?" Yeah.
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  I don't feel like that happens much anymore.
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  It was, well, the funny thing is that it was painted as doom and
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  gloom, 'cause it was like the South is getting pummeled with snow.
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  That's right.
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  Look at the, look at the stadium.
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  Oh, yeah.
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  Either way, it was
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  cool.
• 13:39
  Yeah.
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  It was cool.
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  Yeah.
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  So okay, so, so you just had the name to be the name.
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  Yeah.
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  But it's become more than that.
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  It's become a brand to people.
• 13:45
  Yeah, yeah.
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  I mean, it's become something people recognize.
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  What have you seen in that growth?
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  Like, have, have you seen like the brand be influential in any way?
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  Yeah, I think, um, I think now, you know, we, we took kind of
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  a play for our local market here, and we're like, "We're just
• 14:01
  gonna like say yes to every opportunity that we have," right?
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  Whether, and money be damned, you know, in that decision, in, to some extent.
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  Um, and, and I mean that from like a philanthropic standpoint or from a,
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  "Hey, we'll do this and trade sponsorship," or, you know, that kind of thing.
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  And so I think that helps like- People just be aware of like, "Oh,
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  Big Slate, okay, I've heard of you." And I, I think that helps.
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  But now, like I've, I've seen the evolution of it become,
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  you know, we're a production company and an agency.
• 14:29
  Um, and so now the m- the name could mean, uh, we have a big slate of services.
• 14:34
  You know?
• 14:35
  Like, there's, there's multiple things that we're offering, and kind of still
• 14:39
  tie into that production side of things, and, and big being a part of that.
• 14:42
  So our, our big focus has always been, um, on like
• 14:46
  vertical integration and, and, you know, adjacent kind
• 14:49
  of business units all operating under one, one roof.
• 14:53
  Mm-hmm.
• 14:53
  And so the name, we've kind of grown into the name, into the brand naturally.
• 14:58
  Um, and I always say there's, I've never had this like big like
• 15:01
  mustache twisting plan of this is how we're gonna grow and, and, you
• 15:07
  know, uh, you know, become who we are today or where we're going,
• 15:11
  but it's just been a response to the market, a response to demand.
• 15:16
  Uh, is this something that we are good at?
• 15:18
  Could we be good at?
• 15:19
  Do we need to be good at?
• 15:20
  And then we kind of slide it in, and it's, if it fits within
• 15:23
  that kind of vertical integration, that's ha- has made
• 15:26
  sense and plays in, I think, to the brand of Big Slate.
• 15:29
  Yeah.
• 15:30
  Yeah, for sure.
• 15:31
  As you have grown, you've had, I mean, you're at 32 employees now.
• 15:35
  That's a lot of employees to manage.
• 15:37
  Yeah.
• 15:37
  How, how has that changed you as a person and a leader?
• 15:41
  Oh, man.
• 15:42
  Ev- every day, and so much.
• 15:44
  My, like, leadership team, part of how we get there is having good
• 15:49
  core leadership that's like I'm not the one making all the decisions.
• 15:52
  And so my leadership team has been amazing at handling, you know, whether
• 15:56
  it's HR stuff or system process stuff, client issues, like all of that.
• 16:00
  That's changed me from the standpoint of I'm not in control.
• 16:04
  And I have to be okay with, you know, maybe some missteps or
• 16:07
  somebody doing something that I would've done it differently.
• 16:09
  And what I've found in that is that oftentimes they're
• 16:12
  doing it better than I would have done it, and I would've
• 16:14
  probably had an unhealthy response to that situation.
• 16:17
  But because they're committed to the brand and they're their
• 16:19
  own person, they're… And I trust them, they're gonna make
• 16:23
  their own decision and, and it's oftentimes a really good one.
• 16:27
  Um, so that's been a hu- that's been a change for me.
• 16:30
  I think a lot of entrepreneurs and, and s- startup folks
• 16:34
  early on wanna, like, hold everything, and it is…
• 16:37
  I still catch myself doing that.
• 16:39
  And part of that growth for me has been leadership coaching.
• 16:42
  I've invested in that, uh, you know, somebody to help me
• 16:44
  kind of sort through my feelings, um as a business owner.
• 16:48
  That's fair.
• 16:48
  Which is totally underrated, by the way.
• 16:50
  Like, therapy is, like, very accepted now.
• 16:52
  Like, business therapy is a thing.
• 16:54
  Mm-hmm.
• 16:55
  And, and I think that's, you know, having all of,
• 16:57
  all the folks has, has changed, changed me a lot and,
• 17:01
  and pushed me to be a better person in a lot of ways.
• 17:05
  Um, and kinda going back to, like, you know, I think you have a probably
• 17:09
  similar experience of, like, a lot of who we are, who-- I'll speak for myself.
• 17:15
  Who I am as a, as a boss is a symptom of bosses that I've had in the past,
• 17:21
  and whether I am gonna accept or reject their responses to situations.
• 17:27
  Um, and so I'm trying to be now the kind of boss that's
• 17:32
  hopefully somebody is experiencing my decision-making
• 17:35
  and, and leadership and going, "I wanna be like that."
• 17:39
  Um, and so that puts, you know, pressure and expectation
• 17:41
  to You know, do the right thing in a lot of cases.
• 17:44
  That may be counterproductive to what, you know, a business
• 17:48
  analyst would say to do, um, but it's the right thing to do.
• 17:50
  So that's a long-winded answer, but that's- That's a good
• 17:53
  one.
• 17:53
  Yeah.
• 17:54
  Those
• 17:54
  are deep questions- Yeah
• 17:55
  so it's okay
• 17:55
  if it's long.
• 17:55
  Yeah, yeah.
• 17:55
  Okay,
• 17:56
  cool.
• 17:57
  That was good.
• 17:58
  I totally understand that, and for me, a lot of my experience has been,
• 18:04
  you know, what bad bosses have I had, and what do I… Not that all my
• 18:08
  bosses have been bad, but a lot of it has been very similar of like,
• 18:11
  what do I wanna take, what do I wanna not take, um, from those people.
• 18:15
  And, and a lot of times it's like, "Okay, I don't wanna be
• 18:17
  like this person, so I'm never gonna do these things." Mm-hmm.
• 18:20
  And then sometimes getting deep into situations and
• 18:22
  being like, "I get why they did that now. Dang it."
• 18:24
  Yeah.
• 18:24
  Yeah.
• 18:25
  Yeah.
• 18:25
  You know?
• 18:26
  Dude, totally.
• 18:27
  Totally.
• 18:27
  Yeah.
• 18:27
  That, there's been so many s- circumstances
• 18:30
  I'm like, "I would never do it that way."
• 18:31
  Mm-hmm.
• 18:31
  And then I do it the wrong- the, the other way, and
• 18:34
  I'm like, "Oh, that, yeah. That makes a ton of sense."
• 18:36
  Yeah.
• 18:37
  I get why they were a jerk.
• 18:38
  They-
• 18:38
  Right
• 18:39
  … had to make that decision, and that was a tough one.
• 18:41
  But yeah, that's, that's definitely, definitely
• 18:43
  challenging, and, and I agree with you on coaching too.
• 18:46
  Like, um, you know, it's something I probably need, but you know, having
• 18:50
  seen it from the outside and actually worked with a couple of our clients
• 18:53
  that, um, either are in that space, adjacent to that space, like, you,
• 18:57
  you gain trauma from working in businesses just the same way you get
• 19:01
  it from just everyday life and friends and family and wherever else.
• 19:04
  Yeah.
• 19:05
  So yeah.
• 19:06
  It's all
• 19:06
  people.
• 19:06
  And hurt people hurt people, so- That's
• 19:08
  it.
• 19:09
  Yep … it's really good to be in a place where you're thinking that
• 19:12
  through and being cognizant of it and trying to be better about it.
• 19:14
  Yeah, it's… I, I think it's essential to, to growth.
• 19:17
  If you have a lot of turnover or you have employees that
• 19:20
  are just not, like, connected, you're not gonna get…
• 19:23
  Especially in a creative space, like, you're not gonna
• 19:25
  get the best work, you know, out of, out of that people.
• 19:27
  Not that that's what it's all about, but, like- Mm … they're
• 19:29
  not gonna be fulfilled, and they're not gonna stay,
• 19:31
  or the work's gonna suffer, the relationships suffer.
• 19:33
  Yeah.
• 19:34
  Yeah.
• 19:34
  Yeah.
• 19:35
  Takes a while to get there.
• 19:36
  Awesome.
• 19:36
  So as, as you've grown, um, where, where is Big Slate at today?
• 19:41
  Like, what are some things that you're working on that you can
• 19:44
  talk about, or things that you're excited about for the company?
• 19:48
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• 20:29
  Knoxville has been and will continue to be, I hope, like our
• 20:33
  home and a plethora of work and opportunity for brands that
• 20:37
  we can work with that are wanting to be bold, you know, and
• 20:39
  make content that doesn't suck, uh, as our tagline indicates.
• 20:43
  We've been able to be fortunate in getting,
• 20:46
  uh, you know, some work outside of market.
• 20:48
  So the, a couple of cool brands that we're working right, right now
• 20:50
  would be, uh, Mike's Hard Lemonade, White Claw, and Mountain Dew.
• 20:54
  And we are traveling across the country with them, shooting a lot
• 20:58
  of their activations, um, and creating social content with them.
• 21:01
  We do that in partnership with an agency- Mm
• 21:03
  um, that kind of facilitated that.
• 21:05
  Um, and that's, for us, the, the short form content division, um, has been a
• 21:11
  game changer, um, for us, to be able to, uh, you know … Again, like I was
• 21:15
  saying earlier, like we're, we see market demand, and we see can we help it?
• 21:19
  And that's one that's like everybody needs short form content.
• 21:22
  How can we streamline that process?
• 21:23
  And we've got a, I think, a really great
• 21:25
  system and super talented team to do that.
• 21:27
  Those are some cool, like to throw some brands out there.
• 21:29
  Uh, hope you're impressed.
• 21:30
  Mm-hmm.
• 21:31
  Oh, very.
• 21:31
  But, uh, another really cool thing is, is, uh, uh, sound and music.
• 21:36
  Um, we brought on Will- William Wright late last year, um,
• 21:39
  that's allowed us the ability to do, like, sonic branding.
• 21:41
  Um, so like the Netflix ba-dump sound before it plays, like
• 21:45
  create that sound, that process of creating that sound.
• 21:48
  William kind of brought that to the table, and then we're also creating, you
• 21:52
  know, original music for everything that we're putting out, which is amazing.
• 21:56
  He's wicked fast, and you know, that being 50% of the
• 22:00
  experience, you understand this as a sound person.
• 22:02
  Like, that is, to be able to craft that is,
• 22:05
  like, a total creative unlock- Yeah … for us.
• 22:08
  And so we just wrapped up Regal's, uh,
• 22:10
  Regal Entertainment's, uh, sonic branding.
• 22:12
  Um, so that, a sound we made, a sound that Will made is playing before
• 22:16
  every movie in every country- or every theater across the country.
• 22:20
  Is it out?
• 22:21
  I, I've, I've- It's out … heard it about a billion times-
• 22:23
  Oh, it's out
• 22:23
  … when, when we're setting up a
• 22:24
  studio.
• 22:24
  Yeah, yeah.
• 22:26
  Um, yeah, it's out.
• 22:27
  Okay.
• 22:28
  They, they've, they've released it, I think last week
• 22:29
  was when it started- Oh, nice … hitting theaters.
• 22:31
  So yeah.
• 22:31
  Nice.
• 22:32
  If you go to a movie, if you go to a movie
• 22:33
  now and you hear the sound, that's, yeah.
• 22:35
  That's right, yeah.
• 22:36
  Check out Regal- Yeah … Regal Cinemas.
• 22:37
  Yeah, yeah.
• 22:38
  You'll, you'll
• 22:38
  hear some- Go see a movie
• 22:39
  … sonic branding.
• 22:39
  You … It's good for you.
• 22:41
  It is.
• 22:42
  It is.
• 22:42
  You've done a lot with Big Sleep, but as you've grown I wouldn't say
• 22:46
  you've gotten bored, but you've decided to branch out and do other things.
• 22:51
  Yeah.
• 22:51
  You're not just running Big Slate now.
• 22:53
  Yeah.
• 22:53
  Um, you're, you're making lots of slide decks.
• 22:56
  Are you a professional slide deck maker?
• 22:57
  I'm
• 22:58
  a slide deck maker these days.
• 23:00
  Um- No, but seriously, what, what are you doing now?
• 23:01
  Tell me about that.
• 23:02
  Yeah, so I think at this point, you know, as the executive producer and owner
• 23:07
  is my title, like, I'm, I am in charge of vision casting for the team, right?
• 23:11
  Where are we going?
• 23:12
  What are we, what are we doing?
• 23:12
  Some of these decisions that, you know, I just talked about.
• 23:15
  I think the other part is, is business development.
• 23:17
  Like, it's the saying of, like, nobody sells like
• 23:20
  the owner, I think is, is true and has merit.
• 23:22
  And for, I, I'm so fortunate that I freaking love it.
• 23:26
  Like, I love sitting down with somebody, big brand,
• 23:29
  little brand, and, like, hearing what do they need to do?
• 23:33
  What do they need to achieve?
• 23:34
  And then bringing that back to the team to ideate how do we get there,
• 23:38
  um, whether that be social content or video or, you know, whatever.
• 23:41
  So that's a lot of my day-to-day is that, and then I've, I've got
• 23:44
  a, a couple other irons in the fire, uh, in terms of, of companies
• 23:48
  that I'm trying to, to start and get off the ground, and, and so
• 23:51
  that's, that's been exciting and a, a cool, a cool thing as well.
• 23:54
  You can't … I, I don't feel like I'm done with Big Slate at
• 23:57
  all, but I'm carving out time to, you know, diversify, I guess,
• 24:02
  maybe a little bit, um, and, and meet a different need, so.
• 24:05
  The big one right now that I keep hearing about is B-Roll Bank.
• 24:08
  Yeah.
• 24:08
  What is that?
• 24:10
  So B-Roll Bank is a, uh, digital asset management software.
• 24:14
  Big slate goes out, we shoot a 30-second commercial.
• 24:16
  We're gonna come back with more than 30 seconds worth of footage, right?
• 24:20
  That footage is gonna sit on our server and waste away.
• 24:23
  If it didn't make the final cut, it's gone.
• 24:25
  We recognize that, like, storage costs are growing.
• 24:28
  We're keeping it 'cause we have to.
• 24:30
  What if we found a way for our clients to log into our physical
• 24:33
  server, search their specific library of content using custom
• 24:37
  keywords, and then be able to download and access that?
• 24:40
  Maybe they use it for PR or a social kit or, uh, social media, whatever.
• 24:45
  Um, and so that was kinda how it started, and then, uh, we've,
• 24:49
  we've been expanding since then to really the software itself,
• 24:52
  uh, has a fully private and brand customizable AI model.
• 24:57
  So a lot of AI tagging for media would go
• 25:00
  like blue shirt, red car, you know, whatever.
• 25:03
  Right.
• 25:03
  That's not actually useful when searching, right?
• 25:06
  Like, so the University of Tennessee wants to
• 25:08
  be able to search by Smokey the Dog, not mascot.
• 25:10
  So our model learns a brand specific visual language,
• 25:14
  um, and it's fully on-prem, so nothing is going off
• 25:17
  to train Anthropic or any of the other folks in town.
• 25:20
  Like you can give it a CAD drawing and know that it's
• 25:22
  proprietary data and that be, you know, safe within this confine.
• 25:26
  So now it's a tool that's built for, uh, production companies, agencies, uh,
• 25:31
  and, and brands with, you know, large media libraries, um, that have, you
• 25:35
  know, 100 terabytes plus that they're trying to figure out what to do with.
• 25:38
  Um, it can be less, but that's, you know,
• 25:40
  generally at that point it makes sense.
• 25:41
  So, um, we've got our first enterprise client, uh, we're
• 25:45
  installing them this summer, uh, and then we've got
• 25:47
  our first national distributor to resell that software.
• 25:50
  So, um, it's really, B-Roll Bank is is really designed to be
• 25:54
  a, a infrastructure layer on top of existing storage for kinda
• 25:59
  any of those categories, a brand agency or production company.
• 26:02
  A
• 26:02
  lot of what we do is in tech, so-
• 26:04
  Yeah, yeah
• 26:04
  … what you're saying right now feels like every podcast that, that we did.
• 26:09
  But it's, but it's so cool.
• 26:10
  Sorry, we nerd it
• 26:10
  out there for a
• 26:11
  minute.
• 26:11
  No, yeah, no, but I, I love it, and I think, I think people who watch
• 26:14
  this, we, we have a lot of agencies that we interview for the podcast.
• 26:17
  Yeah.
• 26:17
  Got a, a lot of people in a- in the agency world that watch.
• 26:20
  Yeah.
• 26:20
  So, it's, it's great to know.
• 26:22
  Well, it's,
• 26:22
  it's one of those things that it's like you don't get it until you get it.
• 26:25
  Yeah.
• 26:25
  And, like, anybody that's in an agency especially is going,
• 26:28
  "How do I squeeze the value out of this content?" Yeah.
• 26:31
  Like, "I paid a lot to get it created."
• 26:32
  Right.
• 26:33
  "How do I maximize it?" And whether that's a brand or, you know, an agency,
• 26:36
  and, like, that's, that's the point of it, is, is to be able to do that.
• 26:39
  So it's, yeah.
• 26:40
  Hopefully it relates, because it's like- I think
• 26:42
  very relatable … you, you get it or you don't.
• 26:45
  Yeah.
• 26:45
  Um, so.
• 26:46
  Yeah.
• 26:46
  'Cause I mean, at the end of the day, like, we're working with right now a
• 26:48
  larger client, and they have a lot of footage that they're trying to send us,
• 26:53
  and even that process is like, "Well, I need this," or, "Can you send me this?"
• 26:57
  And then they gotta go back to their marketing team, and their marketing team
• 27:00
  has to get back to us, and it's a whole thing, and did we film that, did we not?
• 27:03
  Like, I could see how B-Roll would be very beneficial
• 27:07
  for something- Yeah … like what they're doing.
• 27:08
  As B- B-Roll Bank, I should say.
• 27:09
  Yeah, yeah,
• 27:10
  yeah.
• 27:10
  But yeah.
• 27:10
  Yeah.
• 27:11
  It's, what's funny is that when I went to register the company
• 27:13
  itself- Mm-hmm … I tried to register it as B-Roll Bank LLC.
• 27:16
  Mm-hmm.
• 27:17
  And it wouldn't let me, 'cause a bank.
• 27:20
  Oh.
• 27:21
  So, so what's
• 27:21
  the, the legal name then?
• 27:22
  So it's, it's actually called B-Roll LLC is, like, the, the actual name.
• 27:25
  Oh, nice.
• 27:25
  But the brand is B-Roll Bank.
• 27:26
  Okay.
• 27:26
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 27:27
  DBA- Yeah
• 27:28
  … or
• 27:28
  something
• 27:28
  like that.
• 27:28
  Yeah, it's a fun brand, brand, uh, decision.
• 27:31
  It's like, oh, yeah, I can't actually name it a bank.
• 27:33
  Yeah.
• 27:33
  So you're, I mean, you're doing a lot, and you, I know there's some other
• 27:36
  stuff probably on, on the back burner that you're also trying to work on too.
• 27:39
  So just everything combined, that's a lot, man.
• 27:42
  It is, man.
• 27:42
  It's, I mean, really those two are, like, my, you
• 27:45
  know, primary worlds right now, and it's so much fun.
• 27:47
  And that's, like, going, it's vertically integrated, right?
• 27:50
  Like, we're a production company, and we have a digital asset
• 27:52
  management software, so it's, it's in the same wheelhouse.
• 27:54
  Um, and that's, it, it's been a lot of fun.
• 27:57
  I'm very tired, though.
• 27:58
  I don't know if you can see the bags under my eyes, but.
• 28:00
  A
• 28:00
  little bit.
• 28:00
  A little bit.
• 28:01
  Should have had the makeup artist over
• 28:02
  here.
• 28:02
  Yeah, I know, yeah.
• 28:03
  I was expecting AGMU here, but that's fine.
• 28:06
  There's nothing they could do.
• 28:07
  There's nothing they could do.
• 28:10
  I'm sure they could help a little bit, but.
• 28:11
  Yeah.
• 28:12
  As, as we think big picture, like, what is top of mind for you right now?
• 28:16
  In terms of the industry?
• 28:17
  Yeah, in terms of the industry.
• 28:18
  And brand, brands in general?
• 28:18
  Yeah.
• 28:18
  I mean, probably everybody that you've had on in the last year probably is gonna
• 28:24
  say AI- Mm-hmm … to, as their answer to this, and I, I'm, I'm no exception.
• 28:28
  I, I think it's, it, I know that may not be
• 28:30
  interesting, but it is, it is the reality.
• 28:32
  Yeah.
• 28:32
  It's the answer.
• 28:33
  Um, and, and I think there's a lot of Contentiousness, you know,
• 28:38
  around what is it, how do we use it, all of that, fear, all that.
• 28:41
  And I, I think there's so much good with the bad.
• 28:43
  Mm-hmm.
• 28:44
  Um, but it's, it's reshaping everything.
• 28:47
  Um, and, and I think for a brand especially, uh, and
• 28:50
  building a brand, it's making building a brand so much
• 28:53
  easier to a certain extent that I, I think that's exciting.
• 28:57
  Yeah.
• 28:57
  Like that, that can be.
• 28:59
  Yeah, it can be really useful.
• 29:00
  We're actually in the process of building something that by the
• 29:03
  time this episode, episode number 69, comes out, it's probably
• 29:07
  gonna already be announced, it'll be public and everything.
• 29:09
  But, um, we've used AI to the point where AI, we, we decided
• 29:13
  on a name as a working title name, and then I baked it so far
• 29:16
  into my AI that when we decided that was a terrible name and
• 29:19
  we're gonna go a different direction, I had to argue with AI.
• 29:23
  It was fighting to keep my brand direction- … and
• 29:26
  pushing back on me at every step.
• 29:27
  It was the funniest thing.
• 29:29
  But yeah, it's, it's, it's a good thing.
• 29:30
  That's really
• 29:30
  cool- Yeah … 'cause usually AI is like, "Yeah,
• 29:32
  whatever you need. I'm sorry I messed up," you know?
• 29:34
  Oh,
• 29:34
  the minute I corrected it and told it why, it was
• 29:37
  like- Yeah … "Oh, well, I guess you're right." Yeah.
• 29:42
  So take that as- Yeah, yeah … as far as you
• 29:44
  want, but it was, it was really snippy at me.
• 29:47
  It was, it was kind of funny, it was like, "Are you sure?" What?
• 29:49
  That's not what we said.
• 29:50
  You said to avoid those things- … and not do that.
• 29:52
  Why are you doing that now?
• 29:54
  That'll be its own conversation at a different time.
• 29:56
  But I, I say that to say, like, AI is definitely helpful.
• 29:59
  Um, the challenge is the sameness of it or the, um, kind of
• 30:03
  like the uncanny valley effect with people doing Photoshop work.
• 30:06
  You can always kind of tell it's Photoshop, not always if it's really good, but,
• 30:09
  um, the same thing's happening with AI where people are kind of getting to the
• 30:12
  point of, like, you see a movie, "Oh, it's CGI." Now it's just assumed it's AI.
• 30:17
  Like, you know, there is that push and pull of, like, I
• 30:19
  think industry leadership and people on the creative side
• 30:22
  see the value in it, but the consumer is so against it.
• 30:25
  Mm. It's this really weird dynamic.
• 30:27
  Yeah, I, I would totally agree.
• 30:29
  I think, I think it is the perfect brainstorm buddy, it is
• 30:33
  the perfect organizer, consolidator, efficiency builder.
• 30:36
  On the brand side, to your point, like, consumers in general, nah.
• 30:40
  Mm. You know, they're not, they're not about it.
• 30:43
  There's been several brands like Coke and, and I think
• 30:45
  Oreo that have, like, fired their agencies and are
• 30:50
  going, "Hey, we're, you know, we're gonna just use AI."
• 30:52
  And, and interestingly, they're the only ones that I've
• 30:55
  seen they put out an ad and, like, the sentiment has been
• 30:57
  positive- Yeah … about it, and I was like, "Crap." You know?
• 31:01
  That's not good.
• 31:01
  Yeah.
• 31:02
  But by and large, everybody's against it, and I-- you're, on the flip
• 31:07
  side of that, you're seeing brands like Apple that are doing a new
• 31:11
  logo launch or something like that, and alongside of that they're
• 31:14
  releasing a BTS behind-the-scenes video of- Another social proof
• 31:17
  here's, here's how we made it.
• 31:18
  Yeah.
• 31:18
  Um, and I think we're gonna see a lot of that, um, of, of like, "Hey, here's
• 31:23
  the storyboards, here's the, you know, all the stuff behind the scenes,"
• 31:26
  um, that is now part of the deliverable package of building the brand.
• 31:30
  Yeah.
• 31:30
  Th- there's a big kinda like push and pull where in some ways,
• 31:34
  like the polish matters a lot, but in other ways you see content
• 31:38
  creators and things like that actually pushing against it and
• 31:40
  trying to be more raw, trying to be more open, um, things like that.
• 31:44
  So it's a, it's a balance.
• 31:45
  Have you started adding typos to your emails yet?
• 31:49
  I tell Claude to do it for me.
• 31:50
  Dude.
• 31:53
  There's been, there's … So like several, like, clients is like, wow, they're
• 31:56
  really n- like, they really are sending like very c- they're usually like
• 32:00
  very short, incomplete thoughts or something like that via email, and now it's
• 32:03
  like a whole sentence and you're like, "Whoa, this is really well-written."
• 32:05
  And immediately, you know it's AI.
• 32:07
  Here's a-
• 32:07
  The, the em dashes is what always gives it
• 32:09
  away for me Well, the … Yeah, the em dash is the telltale.
• 32:10
  What's, what's an interesting consideration that we're trying to juggle right
• 32:13
  now is, like in this age of AI, we don't know what the client agrees with.
• 32:19
  If they send an email or they send a brief or something, and it's clearly
• 32:22
  chat, you know, generated of some, some extent, like there's no way to like
• 32:28
  fact-check to be like, "Did you actually agree with what this was saying?"
• 32:31
  Mm-hmm.
• 32:31
  "Or are you just spitting it out?" Yeah.
• 32:34
  And like, "Did you read it before?" It's like, "This person said it.
• 32:37
  Okay, they agree with it." But now-
• 32:39
  There's definitely a part of it where it feels like you,
• 32:43
  you have to pay attention to what's actually going out.
• 32:46
  Mm-hmm.
• 32:46
  Um, I'm actually developing some AI sales tools for myself right now, because
• 32:50
  I'm one person, identifying businesses in the podcast market are hard, and
• 32:56
  I'm, I'm looking at it from a perspective of like, I at least wanna kick it
• 32:59
  off with my input before it goes out and starts using automation, because
• 33:04
  otherwise it's pretty much just an automated tool once it gets started.
• 33:07
  But it helps me identify like things in the market I would never be able to
• 33:11
  calculate on my own, like podcasts that are going from a consistent posting
• 33:16
  to an inconsistent posting, meaning they're struggling, they may need help.
• 33:20
  Stuff like that.
• 33:22
  So it's, it's a challenge.
• 33:24
  Um, but yeah, I'm, I'm always of the opinion of like, it
• 33:27
  can be really helpful, especially if you have an ADHD brain-
• 33:30
  um, like I do, and being able to just drop in, like I'll do a brain dump on
• 33:35
  a Monday morning, and AI now takes it, you know, creates tasks out of it,
• 33:38
  and puts it into my task list, which I don't check until the next Monday.
• 33:42
  But I have at least thought through my business, and I get things done.
• 33:45
  And most of the time I go back to check the list, and it's done.
• 33:47
  Mm-hmm.
• 33:47
  I did my thing.
• 33:48
  Mm-hmm.
• 33:49
  Um, and I do check it through the week, to be clear.
• 33:51
  But- I was like, you're, I haven't said a
• 33:52
  word and you're telling on yourself here,
• 33:56
  so No, I feel like being self-deprecating a little bit.
• 33:56
  Yeah, yeah . But, um, but no, seriously, it's,
• 33:59
  it's, it's got some super helpful things.
• 34:01
  But yeah, there is always that balance of like, is this real?
• 34:04
  Did you check it?
• 34:05
  And I think the people that are really successful with using AI as a tool are
• 34:08
  the people that are willing to take that extra level of skepticism with it.
• 34:12
  Craft it to, into their own- Mm-hmm … version.
• 34:14
  Uh, that's where like the brainstorm buddy- Right … you know,
• 34:16
  thing is like- Yeah … yeah, get me 80% of the way there- Yeah
• 34:19
  and then let me, let me finish it.
• 34:21
  Yeah.
• 34:21
  Well, as we move on, the last question I always ask people
• 34:24
  is what brand do you admire the most right now, or brands?
• 34:29
  I think Airbnb is doing some cool stuff right now.
• 34:32
  Really?
• 34:32
  Um, their, their ads are very simple, and I think
• 34:36
  that there is strength in simplicity right now.
• 34:40
  Um, there's a lot of noise.
• 34:41
  You've seen, uh, you know, uh, I think Calm,
• 34:44
  uh, did an ad during the most recent Super Bowl.
• 34:47
  Mm. It was like instead of an ad, it was just, like, their logo on
• 34:51
  screen and like, "Hey, everybody, take a deep breath." And it's just
• 34:54
  this moment of pause, and I think that is, I just, I admire that.
• 34:58
  It's bold, and it's, uh, it's, it's powerful and, and stands out, I think.
• 35:02
  So Airbnb is doing a lot of the similar, you know, kind of
• 35:05
  stuff, just very simple, clean, heartfelt, you know, kind of ads.
• 35:09
  And I, I, you know, to tie in the AI conversation That is where I think the
• 35:14
  swing is, is authenticity, uh, sincerity, uh, you know, realism, and connection.
• 35:21
  Yeah.
• 35:21
  Um, so I admire those brands right now.
• 35:23
  That's great.
• 35:24
  Yeah.
• 35:24
  That's awesome.
• 35:25
  Yeah.
• 35:25
  Okay.
• 35:25
  How about you?
• 35:26
  Oh, man.
• 35:27
  Oh, gosh.
• 35:27
  What do you admire right now?
• 35:28
  I've been waiting for someone to ask me.
• 35:30
  Um, it's been a few episodes.
• 35:31
  I would say my mind immediately goes to Orvis.
• 35:34
  I don't know why.
• 35:35
  I'm, I'm big- Cool … into fly fishing right now.
• 35:37
  Yeah,
• 35:37
  nice.
• 35:37
  Um, so I see a lot of their marketing, I see a lot of their branding.
• 35:41
  Um, Orvis and Patagonia are two that I would say,
• 35:43
  like, outdoor brands that I just absolutely love.
• 35:46
  You know, they make you wanna trust their product, and feel like, "Okay, I
• 35:49
  know I'm buying something of quality when I come here." Um, Orvis specifically,
• 35:53
  I would say there's a local tie-in where, like, you've got a local fly shop
• 35:56
  you go to, and the people that work there have always been great to me.
• 35:59
  They've given me good discounts when they
• 36:00
  can, above and beyond what they should.
• 36:02
  Um, so- That's awesome … I, I really appreciated that when I bought my waders.
• 36:06
  Um, but shout, shout out to the Knoxville Orvis Fly Shop.
• 36:10
  Y'all are awesome.
• 36:11
  But it's just one of those things of, like, you
• 36:13
  just see how they're doing that, and it just- Yeah
• 36:15
  it just means, it means a lot, so,
• 36:18
  um.
• 36:18
  Yeah, there's a l- a lot of authenticity to those brands.
• 36:20
  Yeah.
• 36:20
  Yeah,
• 36:20
  yeah.
• 36:21
  And story.
• 36:22
  Mm-hmm.
• 36:22
  Like, that there's a lot of strength in, in tying brand messaging to the
• 36:28
  feeling that the audience, that you want the audience to have about the brand.
• 36:31
  Instead of, like, cramming it down their throat, "Feel happy."
• 36:33
  Yeah.
• 36:34
  Like, tell them a happy story, and they'll feel happy.
• 36:37
  Yeah.
• 36:37
  Well, thank you, Jonathan, for coming on.
• 36:39
  Um, where can people get in touch with you if they wanna connect?
• 36:42
  And if there's anything you need to promote or say, like, now's the time.
• 36:45
  Uh, yeah, I mean, LinkedIn's always a good spot to find me.
• 36:49
  Um, and, and BigSlateMedia.com, uh, is, is, you know, our website.
• 36:53
  So yeah, happy to connect with anybody.
• 36:56
  Uh, if there's any questions or inspiration,
• 36:59
  uh, or you just wanna commiserate some.
• 37:03
  Absolutely.
• 37:03
  Well, Jonathan, thank you for coming on the show.
• 37:05
  Thanks for having me, man.
• 37:08
  Thanks for checking out this episode of We Built This Brand.
• 37:11
  Don't forget to like, follow, and subscribe on your player of choice.
• 37:15
  You can also keep up with the podcast on our website at WeBuiltThisBrand.com.
• 37:19
  If you liked this episode, please give the podcast a five-star review, and make
• 37:23
  sure to tell all your friends about it so we can continue to build this brand.