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Healing the Child Within: How Childhood Trauma Shapes Us with Therapist Stacy Schaffer · Bent Not Broken: Starting Over After Divorce | Post Divorce Life

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to another episode of Bent Not Broken.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Heartbreak and trauma may feel like the end of your story, but here it's the beginning of a bold new chapter.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Coach Deborah Griffiths, and this is the space where women rise, rebuild, and rediscover their purpose.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: Remember this truth.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: You are bent, not broken.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: Today I'm joined by Stacy Schaefer, a licensed professional counselor, survivor, and author of the upcoming book With Love from a Children's Therapist.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_00: With more than 20 years of experience helping children and teens heal from grief and trauma, Stacy brings both professional insight and lived experience to the conversation.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: Her work reminds us that our past doesn't define us.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: It can inspire us to heal, grow, and rewrite the story.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome, Stacy.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: I am so excited to talk a little bit about therapy, especially in relation to children and teens.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Can you share a little bit about your own personal journey, both as a survivor and as a therapist?
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: And what inspired you to do this work?
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm an only child and grew up in a home where there was abuse and neglect.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: I had a really traumatic year at age 11.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: When that year was over, I remember deciding that was then, this is now.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: We are starting over.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so I can remember where I was saying, like, we're just gonna package that away, literally compartmentalizing.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: In my head, I thought, you can start over.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: You don't need those roots.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I built a life on perfectionism, like grades, being shiny, being good friends, a consummate Enneagram too, for those Enneagram enthusiasts out there.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: I did all the things.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I never referenced the time that I was younger when talking to people.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: So in that process, my mom was dying of breast cancer.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: And she ended up dying when I just turned 22.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: And it was a really long battle with breast cancer.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so then I'm on my own in the world.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: She's my only living relative.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: When she died, I was about to enter grad school.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: I hadn't graduated college yet.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: I was already admitted to grad school.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, let's help other people with their childhoods.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: I really didn't integrate my roots into my current being, which at a certain point works for you until it doesn't.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: All of those things that you bury, like they come out sideways in your relationships and your performance behavior.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't until about a decade ago that I started talking about the before and doing my own healing work.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: And in that process, I'm like, oh, there's probably things I have to say.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so I wrote my book that came out in April about the lessons I learned from the resilience I gained from childhood, also from being on the other side of the couch from kids for the past 20 years.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: So there's your basic outline.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: So you spent over two decades helping children and teens heal.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: What have you learned about what young people need most to feel safe and heard?
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think that it is so important to see the kid in front of you.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because so often kids hear and they tell me that the feedback they get from adults is I get you because I was a kid too.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: But here's the thing: we all had to deal with adolescent insecurity grades, parents, those kinds of things.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: The kids of today are living a far different experience than when I was a kid.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: There's the social media thing, the school violence, the current political climate.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: There's so many different things.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: And when people are trying to build a bridge by saying that, it actually fosters more disconnection.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: Because then you don't know, you didn't have to worry about seeing all your friends on social media do a thing without you.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: You just didn't know about it.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so it still happened, but you just didn't know it wasn't in your face.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think it's so important to not enter into conversations with kids, pretending, even though you feel like, yeah, I get it.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like nobody likes middle school.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: I get it.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_01: Pretending that you know what their experience is without talking to them first.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: So it's best to just talk to the child and say, tell me your experiences and how is that making you feel?
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: There's something I wrote in my book that I said, there's a whole list of good conversation starters.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: One of my favorite lines that I say to kids is help me understand what it's like to be you.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: Because no one knows what it's like to be you.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: Even kids who've had a mom die young, I say to them, there are pieces of your story I can connect with, but I'll never fully get what it's like to be you.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: Help me understand what your experience, because that paves the way for them to show up however they need to, as opposed to trying to fill the mold that you've created for them already.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: I love that question.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think that question relates not just to kids and teens, but even to our adults.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: Because I have friends who are therapists too, I like have to remember sometimes take off the therapist hat.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so, like, I'll say to a friend, do you want feedback or do you just want to be heard?
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes there's a combination.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: I have found, at least for me personally, when someone tries, Oh, have you just tried this?
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, Yeah, tried that.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: When my mom died, none of my friends knew how to support me because we were all 22.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so they're like, Have you thought about taking a walk?
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: Your book asks, What if the childhood you never talked about shaped everything you are today?
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: What does that mean for people who may not realize how their past still affects them?
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: I like that.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: My publishers added that on the back, and I was like, oh, yeah, I guess that is the theme of the book.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a big proponent of people in the helping professions doing their own work, whatever that looks like.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's really important to me to keep up my therapeutic time that's reserved for me.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: I have found that unpacking the way I think and feel and respond to things has so many connections to younger me.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's important that if those connections aren't healthy, that they get sorted out.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: Because I want to show up for kids as the healthiest version of myself, because that is as far as I can take kids.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: If I am quick to react to a kid asking for more connection, more authenticity, more vulnerability, there's obviously appropriateness, but if I have a reserve that's a check in my spirit, that's something for me to look at.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: Why did I, how old did I feel in that conversation?
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: Where did I go?
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: What wounds still needed to be tended to?
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: That kind of thing.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I think the past informs the present.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes it works for a while to put things in a box until it doesn't.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: I love that perspective.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: How can adults recognize when a child is silently struggling?
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: And what can they do to create emotional safety at home or even at school?
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great question.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think some of that starts really young to have an open door policy.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: There's nothing you can tell me that will change the way I feel about you, just so we're clear ahead of time.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: Setting those patterns as early as you can with your kids to be a safe place and knowing that your job as a parent isn't to be their therapist, but to be their advocate and a sounding board.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think not being closed off to having some of those hard conversations is key.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: And recognizing that if we're having a hard time ourselves when a kid is a certain age, to look into getting some support ourselves.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: If you feel angry or disrespected, I think about how I'm reacting internally in that scenario.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: I will ask myself, is that really what it's about?
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: Is it really, or is it really nobody heard you when you were three?
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's something I bring to therapy.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: I felt treated as a child, and it responded with cowering internally, but showing up as my adult self is key.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: It feels better.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: So let me clarify for a second.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned one of the emotions, anger, and we all can be angry at times.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: So if we find ourselves always angry or feeling tense, is that a clue then to really stop ourselves and take a step back and ask ourselves these questions?
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: Is there something that I haven't dealt with in the past that may be making me feel this way?
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: Because I might be internally reacting, it's a nine, but in the scheme of things, is it a nine or is it a two?
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: Am I having a nine reaction to a two situation?
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: And what does that mean?
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not to invalidate our own feelings.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's really important to acknowledge that anger.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: But if you are cut off in traffic and you're ready to rage in a scary way, I think it's important to maybe ask yourself some questions.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: When is another time that I felt disrespected and cut off?
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: And is it something that I should look at?
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: I like that.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: Now you specialize in synergetic play therapy.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: For listeners who are unfamiliar with it, what is it and how does it help children and maybe even adults heal from trauma?
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: So synergetic play therapy was created and founded by Lisa Dion.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: And there used to be before COVID a center here in Colorado, but now it's all online.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: And the idea of synergetic play therapy is that it incorporates attunement, awareness, and emotional regulation.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: The theory is that a kid, because of neuroscience, is going to project on the toys or project to you the way that they are feeling.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's important as a clinician to be really in touch with what's going on with yourself so that you know you're not getting eggs.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: But if a kid comes in and creates a like a plate therapy situation that's really overwhelming, like a SPT response would be like, ah, wow, that's making me feel really overwhelmed.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: And nine times out of ten, kids scan me too.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's like really being attuned to the child in front of you and trying to pick up what they're telling you, sometimes without words.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: You mentioned SPT response.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: What is that?
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: Synergetic play therapy.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's the acronym.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: Have you seen a moment in therapy where that play or creativity opened the door to some real healing?
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: I think of one scenario that comes up quite often.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: I do a lot of sand tray therapy, and it's a big tip.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: My friend Dave made my table.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's full of really soft sand, and the top, it just looks like a table.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I take the top off, full of sand, and then it looks like I have every happy meal toy over time, ended up in family groups, like hanging out.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: They're all just hanging out.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then I do sand tray, and I've done it as an adult and it's been helpful, but you say there's so many directives.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: But one is find a character to be you.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: Show me what it's like to be you.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: I had this really high conflict divorce where the child chose Darth Vader's dad, Tiny Mouse's mom, and put themselves in the middle.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: Knowing the dynamics, I had the child be like, what does this one wish they could say to Darth Vader?
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: What does this one wish it could do?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's like providing a 3D image of the brain and being one step removed for the kid, it feels less scary.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: As I feel like Darth Vader yells a lot or whatever is true.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: Santre is a way of release because kids don't always have the language for what they feel.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so play is the language of kids.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a big fan of Sandray.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: How young does a child have to be for some of this therapy to be impactful?
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: There was a like a natural disaster that happened here quite some time ago.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: Houses got swept away in a flood.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: Some families were in those houses.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: I saw a family impacted.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: I had this three-year-old kid recreated the scene of what happened.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: Then I offered some alternatives.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: How are we safe now?
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then they created the new house they're in.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: And the moms could see the physical release for the kid.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's a way to get that out of their body.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: I always like to tell kids like, deposit things here because you have to go to the real world out there.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not great.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: You've been out there, right?
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: Not great.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: We did things in the sand, which seemed to be really beneficial to them.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: So, what inspired you to write with love from a children's therapist?
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: And what do you hope readers take away from it?
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a great question.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: So there were so many universal things that just kept happening that I hear on the other side of the couch.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so the rule for maybe people don't know about how counseling works is that the rules of confidentiality, if you tell me that you're gonna hurt yourself, you're gonna hurt someone else or someone's hurting you.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's when you know the limits of confidentiality are reached and I'm a mandated reporter.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: However, there are things that are talked about that are in the gray.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so I always how I keep everyone happy is I always tell parents an intake, and I'll tell kids, what you can trust is that I'll never quote you.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: However, your parents kind of want to know what's happening in here.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll tell them either something I said, something we did, something we created.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: And that's to keep everyone happy.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: Now, when things fall in the line of gray, like sometimes like bullying is in there, I'll say, we should probably talk to your parent.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want me to talk alone or with you?
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: But there were things even below that.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: For instance, I hate it when my mom slams doors and says nothing's wrong.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: And this happens quite a lot, right?
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was hearing that a lot.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sure your mom would love to hear from me.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: Is that something you'd think they communicate?
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: Because they'll say, I'm the worst mom ever.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I can't tell you how many times that exact dialogue has happened.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: It is hard to be a parent because you're doing all the sacrificial things for your kid, and then you're like, oh, the one thing I did wrong.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so, of course that didn't feel good.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so there were so many things that I was seeing behind the scenes that I'm like, gosh, I wish that some people had a camera view of the things I hear all day long every day.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm like, what if I took a bunch of those nuggets and I was able to share them with people that maybe didn't have the ability to bring their kid to counseling or their kid is older, or there's wounds that haven't been seen for them?
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: So that piece happened along with doing my own work.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh, I have things to extract from what it was like for me.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's a mesh of those things.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: What was the most emotional or eye-opening part of writing this book for you personally?
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: I would say that it was pretty significant to me that my childhood best friend that I grew up, Five Houses Down.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: I referenced my biggest trauma was when I was 11.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm from Las Vegas, but I live in Colorado now.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: And Sam moved to Colorado a while ago.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: And we met in 2017, she lives an hour and a half away.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: We met up for brunch and we're talking, and then she asked me, what happened that year that you disappeared?
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, what?
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: And she's I went to your house and your mom pretended she wasn't there.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: And she slammed the door in my face and said, You ran away.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I did not run away.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: I did not run away.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: But at that point in my journey, I wasn't openly talking about what did happen.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so I felt really paralyzed and I changed the subject.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I cried the whole way home and I called someone who was like a mom figure.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, couldn't tell her.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: And she said, one day you'll be able to.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: And that was a big catalyst to be like, I want to own my own story.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: I want to be able to talk about my own story.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: The beautiful part is in January, I messaged her and I'm like, hey, so I wrote a book.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: My book release parties in May, and she's I'll be there.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was sharing the story up front and she's sobbing.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: It made me realize the power of owning your own truth because I never knew that story.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: Being able to own your own story and not be afraid of what any podcaster is going to ask me, any interviewer is going to ask me, not being afraid of that is such magnificent power that I didn't have before.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: Your story is your story.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: For someone listening who's still struggling with their own story, what's one small loving step that they can take today towards healing?
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: I always like the premise of giving yourself a message that your younger self never received.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: Because you know that we can't go back in time.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: Annoying.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: We carry with us every age we ever were.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: For me, like I'll look at a younger picture of me, be like, what did like little Stacy need to hear?
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: The first thing that just came to mind was like, you're not too much.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so to practice, because no one can see what's inside your head, which I've always thought was very cool.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: I don't like the sci-fi stuff where people can read your mind.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: To give yourself that sense of safety because it does impact your nervous system, it does impact your well-being.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: So to be really honest, what did you not get?
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: And because we're all raised by humans, we all didn't get everything we needed.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: When parents come to me and they're like, I think I broke my child.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: Trav's not broken.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: Your trial's being raised by humans.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: So let's start there.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's not like beating ourselves up about where we went wrong.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's about honoring where we went and what we needed that we didn't get.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for sharing your heart and your wisdom today.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: How can people get a hold of you purchase your book?
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: Ah, so my publishing company made me a website, and then I'm guessing it'll be in the show notes because my name is easy to misspell.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for that month.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: Authorsyshaefer.com.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so on that website, you can read more about the book, and then there's a link.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: My book's available on Amazon, Audible, Spotify, Barnes and Noble, all the other places where you can find books.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a link to that.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's also a link to contact me if you wanted to reach out for more.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I can include my social media, hope restored on Instagram.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, that will all be in the show notes.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: So your perspective on healing and creating emotional safety is such an important message.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: And listeners, if you'd like to learn more about Stacey or her new book, be sure to connect with her online and follow her journey.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: And remember, healing starts with the courage to listen to your own story.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, this is Coach Deborah, reminding you that you may be bent, but you're never broken.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening to today's episode of Bent Not Broken.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: I hope that this episode reminded you that even through life's toughest moments, you are bent, not broken.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: If this message inspired you, please share, rate, review, and subscribe, as it helps us reach more women who are ready to rise and rebuild.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: And until next time, keep living bold and walking in your purpose.