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How To Avoid Overtraining and Burnout (And Realise When You're Close...) · Total Barnage

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome back to Total Barnage.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome back to another episode.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_02: Today is a very exciting episode.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_02: I'm joined by the man who's been Mr.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_02: Worldwide this year.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: Who is this man that I'm joined with?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: The name's Kennedy.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: Guy Kennedy.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Guy Kennedy.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: No, I've been here, there, and everywhere everywhere.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: I was supposed to be in Amsterdam that uh Rotterdam this weekend, but um things things didn't work out.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I yeah, to be honest, I'd been so busy of recent I didn't really want to get on another flight.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_02: You decided to back off a little bit.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I'm looking forward to some normality again.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I mean that's the the the conversation of today's pod.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um ebbs and flows in life and knowing when to push and knowing when to ease off, you know, the natural train you training periodization of life.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I mean that's kind of what it is like we'll obviously get we'll get into it, but that is gonna be the episode today is yeah, it is when should you train hard, when should you maybe maintain, or is there a an optimum level of um kind of setting your goals and making training around your life rather than life around your training, because it really depends on where your priorities are as well?
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean I I'm very in tune with my body these days, and I kinda I still enjoy beer, I still enjoying eating out with friends, and the past kind of couple months, two to three months, I've been, you know, China, been to Mongolia, been to Crete, um, been up at some, you know uh seminars, I've been all over really.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, going up to London a lot, and I've had a great time, maybe a bit too much of a good time.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I've been very aware that I have some competitions for the rest of the year where I'm actually really not gonna get the opportunity to have as much fun.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: Not that I it's a different sort of fun, right?
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know, going out drinking with mates is is always good fun.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but then always until the next day.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: Until the next day.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: Well yeah, it depends yeah, it depends depends what the occasion is.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um but it's also I I really enjoy training for for competitions, and and then that those are kind of my periods I train harder for.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I got one in seven weeks, which I'm quite excited for.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um what comp are you doing?
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's turf games.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm doing it with a a group of quite fit CrossFitters.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: There's actually teams of six, which is always interesting.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: You never want to be the least fit out of those six.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think that the team very much uh uh we entered the competition to win.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's not it's not like a bit of fun.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: So um base level strength's always there, it's just getting that conditioning up, dialing in the nutrition, dropping a little bit of body weight.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: There's quite a lot of events that involve rope climbs, muscle ups, uh pull-ups, etc.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: There's some running events, and as you know, every kilo counts.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: So dropping that body weight down a little bit, uh dialing in the nutrition, becoming a bit more food focused, and it's fun.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like I've been doing it this week, and I'm actually really kind of falling in love with that process again.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I don't think if you don't enjoy the process of getting back into fitness or or improving your health, it's it's not a sustainable thing to do.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, for me, I was very aware I had a couple months where I was like, okay, it's not that important, and the rest of the year there's there's quite a few things that are important to me to get fit for because one, I don't want to disappoint myself, but I also don't want to disappoint the the teams I'm training with because none of the events are individual events, it's all very much with teams, which is quite quite a good thing because the accountability is no longer on just my behalf, it's on the behalf of everyone else, and um it's yeah, it's it's gonna it's gonna be good fun.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um does that make much of a difference for you being part of part of the team in terms of how on it you're gonna be over the next seven weeks?
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: Very much so.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_02: Really?
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I I mean I've always done team sport, right?
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I will always train hard, or if not harder, when it's a team event, because that's just the way I've been brought up and the bre the way my brain's wired.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um Zola, what have you got in your mouth?
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: Hello Zola.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: What is that?
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, little dog, little dog.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: What is that?
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: Zola's come over.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: Guy's puppy with something in its mouth that I've taken out of its mouth, and I don't know what the hell that was.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: Zola go.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: Go away, don't eat that.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, what is that?
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: That looks grim.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um I would never eat anything like that.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, maybe.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: So so yeah, no, I think I have been good at doing indiv like the only individual events I've really done over the years is a couple of powerlifting meets and strongman competitions and some runs.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: The rest of the stuff I much prefer doing the the teamwork um because I like I like being part of a team.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's always it's always something I've kind of been brought up with rugby.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: As you're you're probably on the other hand, right?
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: You've always done individual sports and like track, etc.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: So perhaps those kind of that motivates you more when you're training on your own.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: How would you think you'd be in a team environment if you were to enter a team competition?
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think I honestly I don't think there'll be any difference in terms of how I would how I would train, no.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe like out on the day, like the buzz.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's that little bit extra, especially if you're not really on it on the day.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like I've been in, you know, team being out out in the US with the team environment, there's an extra little bit that you're performing on behalf of something greater, which gives you that extra bit of impetus and kind of excitement.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it's nice to be a part of like a team that does well, people will club in.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: So like it's the rush of relays, um, and those sort of like team events, which they're not complete, like track and feel is not really you know, athletics is not it's not really team-based.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you you still act as an individual and then it mainly combines to make a team.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but I think you know, it's it's been the way that I've I've operated in at least the last few years.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like being injured, it's there's no team aspect in any of it.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: But then there's also no like uh external motivation aspect in most of it for me.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: Everything's completely internal, like everything's completely intrinsic.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I even if you were to give me I mean it would be very marginal differences if you were to give me like so much, you'd give me£10,000 to train differently to what I'm training now, there wouldn't be much of a difference.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it might just be slight intensity on some reps, or yeah, I don't know, but it's not gonna make much of a difference.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: See, that's the funny thing, like within team sports, in my experience with getting injured in team sport, uh, the coach will get informed by the physio of how long they think it is until you're back.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: So the physio might say, Yeah, it's a four-month injury, a six-month injury, a year, whatever it is.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then the whole team knows how long it is until you're back on the pitch.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: So there's almost this pressure to make sure you are better by that date, and everyone has an expectation that, okay, guy, yeah, you've torn your hands during that, so you know, a four-month injury, we'll expect you back on the field for the last four games of the season.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a very as with you, there's perhaps not that pressure.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, the injuries that I've had, it's like there would be what I do is I think, right, what's the what's the optimum outcome?
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how can I get back as quickly as I can whilst being as sensible as I can?
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_02: And and then I just do the process.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: The how quick I get back, like, I don't know, if someone said, Oh, you should have been back within four months, it's like, well, I did absolutely everything.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's just how it is.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like the it's interesting anchoring.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: I do have I have my my stepdad, Andrew, he he asked me, said, uh, it was even like a year ago, when I was getting told, because I had I was getting told with the with this injury, like, oh, it's gonna be two months, oh it's gonna be three to six months, it's whatever, and it doesn't work out at any point.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'll stick rigidly, I'll do the stuff that's needed to be done, I'll recover properly and do everything, but it doesn't work out.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and my and my stepdad said to me, he was like, When are you aiming?
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like, have you set yourself a goal to be get back running by some point?
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, Well, it doesn't make a difference because the only thing it would make a difference on is if I'm not doing everything that I could be doing to get back, and I am, so nothing changes in the process.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_02: But if you're not gonna do your rehab and you need the motivation to do it, and it's on the whole gonna be like four months, and you might be able to accelerate it by doing what you need to do, then like perfect, you know.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_02: Only if it's gonna change the process, I feel there is any point in having an anchoring goal because I've seen with injuries and stuff, especially in my personal experience, is like those guidelines mean absolutely nothing.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, well, you just look at rugby, right?
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: The amount of times people come back too early.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um you see it so much in the amateur game.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, oh yeah, you dislocated your shoulder four weeks ago, but come on, come on, you can you could it's just one game, we can strap you up, and then you dislocate it again, and then you're like, Well, well, that was just stupid, but it's the the pressure of the team.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I I think kind of having that time pressure can sometimes make injuries worse, and I don't think it's necessarily the the best process, but we're getting a little bit off track of today's topic, and I mean the thing I kind of really wanted to go over today is these kind of ebbs and flows in life, and uh and and for me I have events um which I I specifically train for, same as you, and you periodise your training around that.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: I have the privilege of living above a gym and being able to periodise my training accordingly to the schedule of my events throughout the year, whether that's a running event, whether that's a weightlifting event, whether that's a crossfit event, whatever it might be.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_02: What do you mean by periodize?
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_02: For those that die, obviously we we know the term periodization, people might throw it about what do you mean simply by periodise your training?
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: So periodizing your training is is is basically setting up your training so you're peaking in fitness by the time of the event.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: And within that periodization, there needs to be D-load weeks, so you ensuring you're not over-training, uh, optimizing your recovery, um, and and basically creating phases throughout your training so you can kind of understand your progress and see if you're heading in the right direction.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: And for many people who don't have that privilege, they think, oh, I can't do it, so I'm just gonna have this all or nothing approach.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when my kids are at home in the summer, off fuck, I'm not gonna be able to train at all, so they're kind of nothing.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then the kids go back to school and they have a little bit more time on their hands so they can maybe train again in the in the day or whatever it might be.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, this could also go into like, you know, you might be traveling a lot more with your job, or there might be points in the year where it's coming to the end of Q4 where there's a lot more stress in your life and it and there's a lot more workload.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: Perhaps that's a time to ease off the training and go to some non-negotiable standards you have yourself.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: For instance, let's say in the either let's take the summer holidays as an example, or the end of Q4, and you know, you're hammering work.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: These times it's like, okay, what what what is the bare minimal I can do to kind of maintain some form of physical and mental health?
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: And that could, and non-negotiable standards are standards you abide by year round.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: So it could be, you know, I prepare my own meals like every day of the week, apart from a Sunday, something like this.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I work out three times a week, even if it's just half an hour.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it doesn't matter if it's in the gym, it could just be a home workout home.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, these non-negotiable standards will keep you at a base level of fitness, and when you come out of these high stress or uh time poor periods, those are times to push.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: So the year kind of naturally creates this periodization of times to push and times to ease off.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so, although you don't have that luxury of you know being able to train up for event or whatever, whatever it might be, there are naturally gonna be ebbs and flows in the year where you can increase intensity, dial up the nutrition, um optimize your recovery a little bit better, and there's gonna be times in the year where it's gonna be more difficult.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and this is kind of what we want to talk about today.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's everyone has a very different life to one another, and everyone is gonna be busy like everyone else.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's this the the excuse, oh I'm too busy, is is quite a poor one because it really depends on where your priorities lie.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: And the what is that the effort of really doing three half-hour workouts a week?
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's an hour and a half of your week.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: And the effort of not eating crap food, although you might be high stress and though those foods will tempt you more, is just having some form of I I I guess you could use the word discipline to say no to these things, but it's really the habits that you build around it to kind of say no to that, it becomes easier with time, right?
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, do you want to you know talk about this a little bit more?
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean I yeah, what's what comes into my mind is is it's absolutely relative busyness.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: You know, so some people may objectively have more of a time investment into their work than others.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um somewhat of a choice, somewhat maybe by uh a kind of felt necessity of um going and doing longer hours, sometimes the the hours are just longer.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and so it's got to be an individual decision to look at almost like a heat map.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like it it doesn't matter in like different countries, it doesn't matter necessarily how hot it is, um, but you do have within the the country like the really hot periods of of like of the map and then the less less hot periods, like the colder periods, and it's like that in your in your year, like although you might be working 15 hours more than someone else, or you might have two extra kids than them or or whatever, it's looking at your year and thinking, okay, this is actually for me, this is the busy period, and this is the time where it dies down.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like it might not die down as much as someone else like like me who doesn't have a girlfriend nor any kids, you know.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_02: But it's it's looking at your own your own life and and basing it around that because that's a thing that you can you know it's you take you take the principle of that in general and then you apply it to yourself because there's no point us going and saying exactly and that's a difficult thing, like we can't say exactly when you can push on and when you can back off.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it's n even as a coach, even if you see someone two, three times a week, you can look at lots of factors of their life.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'll get onto a a nice little audit that that I do within my training to know whether I'm burnt out and I should back off, or I'm just like a bit tired and I need to get on with it.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um but you know, you you can't always you can't tell with anyone.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: There's way too many factors in life to work out your complete life load and how much you can manage from an emotional standpoint, from a time investment standpoint, from uh your physical health standpoint, and then chucking in like complete uh external circumstances that come up.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: There's there's there's really no way to to work that out.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: So you've got to you've got to do a little assessment of yourself and have a look maybe at previous years, maybe why things have dropped off.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like the the whole the the periodization and choosing when you can train harder and when you can back off, if you don't have a competition to work towards, that is dependent on you being consistent with either or, meaning you have to have the discipline to have the freedom to choose if you can train harder or not.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: You can't then reverse engineer it and use it then as an excuse to say, Well, you know, I'm gonna back off on holiday because I want to enjoy my holiday, but then you won't put in a little bit of extra work before to get there.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um so that's I think that's the important thing is yeah, it's it's almost a privilege to be able to periodise, but then it's also something which you have to do relative to your own situation, uh, and then and then it's tr and most of it's trial and error, most of it's getting to know your body, like you said at the start, you know, you you know your body really well now, and also you've got you've got systems and structures and stuff working for you with the like place that you live, the people that you're gonna train with, the competitions coming off of a spell of travelling that you know reliably that you can optimize and be at an optimal level of training and life stress as much as you can control over like the next seven weeks.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I think it all comes down to planning and preparation, right?
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, it might take half an hour for you to sit down and look at your year and being like, that's gonna be fucking difficult to train hard.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: These months might be slightly easier, that's when I'm gonna push.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm actually going on holiday there, wouldn't mind looking a little bit better on the beach so I'm not insecure to take my t-shirt off.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: And structuring your training around that and and just giving it some thought at the start of the year, it doesn't even need to be at the start of the year, it could be you know directly after listening to this podcast, just looking at what the rest of the year looks like and think, okay, well, summer holidays might be quite tough, so what's the bare minimum I can do?
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: But actually, post-summer holidays and the run up to December perhaps is going to be a really good time where I can actually look to get my fitness level up or maybe drop a few pounds, whatever it might be.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I we've got quite a few good examples of of clients we've kind of coached over the years.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: But Charlotte, you know, you've obviously got Sarah who's recently been quite busy and stressed.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so yeah, perfect example, which is again a very, very recent one.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: So my client Sarah has recently sold her company, she's still working for it, but she went through a very, very lengthy and stressful sales process.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: And within that, as a coach, I could just see how she was turning up to sessions, she was really, really stressed, she was emotionally pretty drained as well, and physically it was quite visible, and her body was very tense, so she was more prone to injury, she didn't feel very strong because she was just absolutely knackered.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, naturally, uh through that process, you know, I kind of like almost like hate sense as well, but almost like nurtured her through it at the gym.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: So she was still wanting to come to the gym as a form of like emotional release, but in quite a lot of the sessions, we took it off the stuff that we tracked on the iPad, or if we were tracking the stuff on her actual programme, it was basically just doing kind of like higher volume, lower weight, and just making sure that she's doing all of her exercises right.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um because yeah, she otherwise she was just she was prone to injury, she's like hurting herself whenever she'd come to classes because she just came re-re-tense and holding a lot of tension like in her traps, in her lower back.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um so yeah, we just basically I gave her a bit of a DLO then made everything a little bit easier, but made sure she was still moving, incorporated a lot of mobility and almost like kind of maintenance for her body instead of pushing, pushing, pushing.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and now she sold her company, she's still super, super busy, but she's got a lot more energy.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and she's got kind of her spark back with training, so we've gone into a new block where actually we're doing quite a lot of conditioning now because we've kind of figured out that's actually what she really needs.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: We've built up her strength to a pretty good kind of baseline, and actually we need to kind of work on her cardiovascular now.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: So we've gone into a pretty tough conditioning block.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: Today she came in today and it was a bit of a sporadic one because I hadn't seen her in a while and she'd hurt her thumb in a class, but yeah, no.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: She basically just pulled back uh a shite ton on doing heavy compounds and stuff, which she really enjoys doing, but just kind of working with what we could work with, and you know, every week there would be, you know, maybe she'd really hurt her back in one of the classes or something.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um I mean we've all had we've all had clients that just kind of want to constantly push, right?
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: And she uh likes that as well.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I I I've you know, I could name a few, but it's understanding that constantly pushing is just gonna lead to under-recovering and potentially overtraining, and you're never seeing results.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I've trained to be honest, it's not so much the guy the people I have at Barn Gym, but there's been a fair few online clients I've had over the years, and they're like, guy, I want to get in the best shape ever, I want to train six times a week, and I want to do two sessions a day, and then they end up doing a seven, like they they're like, right, I'm gonna train on a Sunday as well.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: We end up just not seeing the best progress, and they're like, Oh, what I'm doing all this stuff.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Well, you firstly you're doing not what I'm telling you to do, okay, and then second and secondly, you're you're training so intensely seven days a week because you've gone from zero to a hundred.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: When's your body actually recovering?
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, What do you mean?
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you're not getting any bigger in the gym, you're breaking your body down, you know, exhausting itself, and then you that recovery process.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: Can also really taint their perception of what sustainable like activity is.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: And like, as you said, like they're just butchering the recovery process and they won't make any progress from that.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: And and and sometimes it's kinda as a coach, I think.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: For me, when I bring someone on board, especially in the online world, it was very much I wanted to take them through a process, educate them, and they'd learn everything they had from me, and I leave them and they can kind of go off and do their own thing.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: My intention was never to kind of keep them on board as long as possible because they should come to me, I teach them, I coach them, they learn the stuff and they know how to do it on their own.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: And when I had clients where they've maybe signed up for six months or they signed up for a year with me off the bat, I would sometimes just let them run it and be like, do okay, don't follow my plan for the first month or two months.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: Let them fuck up, you know, and then be like, right, okay, so now you understand you've learned a lesson.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: And they wouldn't have learned that lesson if they hadn't done it.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: And there are certainly times as a coach where you can kind of step back and let them mess up and then be like, okay, that's why we don't do that.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: Let's do this instead.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: You're ready to try the ways of a samurai.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's it's a much better way, like failure is one of the fastest way of l ways of learning, and sometimes letting people have a little bit of failure.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you don't you don't want to bring on a client and just do nothing with them and say, okay, you're literally doing it.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: But it it's guiding them through that process and not holding their hands all the way through.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um I feel like that's a big thing with nutrition and fat loss as well.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, for sure.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes they just think if I move more.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, or or if I drop my calories down to a thousand calories a day or eight hundred that I'm gonna lose weight really quickly.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, yeah, but you're gonna feel like ass.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: And you're gonna lose muscle mass, and you're gonna hate the process of darting, and it's gonna make you never want to do it again.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: You crash darting, babe.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: So it's anyway, but kind of going back into the periodization thing, it's um I I think my biggest advice to anyone listening to this podcast today is understanding that there has to be periods where you are easing off, and there has to be periods where you're pushing harder, and and then the way you can track this is by logging your weights, by logging your food.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: And for instance, for me, when I'm in periods of easing off um, you know, nutrition and training, I will much more just program my own workouts and go in and do my own thing.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: I still probably train three, four times a week in the gym and maybe do a run or whatever.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I still be training, but I won't be logging and I won't be tracking.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: And same with the the food, I'll still be trying to eat healthy.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: I know how to do that, but I won't be logging.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: And then when I'm pushing, I'm following a training plan, I'm logging every weight, logging every rep, logging all my food.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because I want to optimize, I want to pursue the best version of myself, but it's not to say I'm not doing anything, of course.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm still eating healthy, I'm still trying to get to bed at a decent start, and I'm still training.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's just not that pursuit of progress continuously which can lead to burnout and over-training.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: Now, Charlie, you've got some stuff to say about overtraining, right?
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I mean, gosh, I've spent I think overtraining is something where it's interesting, but you first of all, you're talking about people that um will overtrain.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like there will be some people that will do too much that you'll give them four workouts to do a week and they'll do six.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: You tell them to have a day off, and they take the day off and think, oh well, I'll just go and do some other form of activity.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I won't go and lift weights in the gym, I'll go for an easy cycle or go for like a 20-mile walk, which they think, oh, it's walking, you know, it's the active recovery.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but they're never actually letting themselves like properly recover.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: So it's sometimes it's an excuse to say that you're recovering by just doing something which is a little bit less.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and actually for it's probably the as someone that now like me going back into uh getting back into running, getting back into training, uh, I'm always going to do less than my capacity because my aim is just like longevity.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like I don't I'm not too fussed about reaching potential, I'm fussed about staying injury free.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like having that, having a priority in terms of your goal, um, which is important, which then guides your management and your load.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: Because I've had years, and as as someone that had previously not had the discipline to do things, then I went through a period of absolutely nailing every bit of training, not drinking, like saying no to things that didn't align with like my goals and everything.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_02: And that was just literally just the period before going out to the US.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_02: So it was only then where I kind of proved to myself, like, oh, I can train at this capacity, I can hit every single rep, every single session with a really good intensity.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I needed almost to prove that to myself to then then have the freedom to then say no to things, whereas before I just didn't have the discipline to do so.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: But then going from going from that to then a program like out in the US, which was just way too intense, and I didn't even have any time to adjust in terms of like get injured straight away.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_02: I I am still learning from that mistake, like two years on.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_02: So sometimes it can be you can't learn from it like straight away.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like sometimes you burn out and you just take a couple days off.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_02: Uh sometimes it's you know months and years of like recalibrating.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think for the people that it is almost, I would go as far to say, equally as difficult for the people that are naturally kind of uh disciplined or have built the discipline to train more, and it's been useful at one point in their life to train more, it's equally as difficult for those people to take a rest day as it is for those that don't have this discipline to train, because they don't kind of have they don't have that in the locker.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's just as difficult for them to actually get stuff done.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's it's like it's it's a weird, it's almost like a champagne problem.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's almost saying, like, oh you know, rip rich people have you know got problems, but it's fine because they're rich, like, you know, whatever.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_02: In the same way that like overtraining is like, we'll just take a rest day.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: But then if you're if if that has served a really important like purpose previously and it's got you a certain amount of success, the way that you're gonna approach things naturally is you want to replicate that excess success so that you're gonna replicate the way that you train.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_02: Well, naturally you might need to like change, change tact.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um and and another thing is that if you don't, and this is why I've kind of created um this auditing process and like reflective like training and uh coming back to load management um to determine whether I should like push on or back off, is that you can just like you can go into overtraining without really realizing it.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: The the it's so easy to say listen to your body, and it makes sense a lot in hindsight because there is a certain there is going to be an outcome, like an injury or a burnout signal that gets to a certain level that you can't even ignore it, but it's very hard, like even on on the day or on the week or even of the month in the training block to determine like is this especially if it's something new, so like is this just how it's supposed to feel to be working hard, or am I now like burnt out?
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_02: So I have a little auditing process, um, which I've which I started doing, and I normally do it when I am so I'm rarely like demotivated, I rarely don't want to do stuff.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: It comes about probably once every six weeks, two months, like in a and that's like a a rep that I don't want to do, like a singular rep.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_02: I I would say it's probably like it's very, very rare.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_02: So when I do have that, I need to make a decision.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: Is okay, is this because I'm actually just like on the verge of burning out?
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like, will I get much out of the session, or do I just need to pack it in and get on with it?
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um so the things that I look at and I rate these, I look at the past week and I look at what my training was like, I look at sleep, I look at recovery, I look at nutrition, I look at my mindset, and then I just look at my general life load and I'll put a you know, for one one thing before, for example, um, is I put a kind of a low, medium or high next to it.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I would say, you know, my training load um has been high through this period.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_02: Let me just get it up.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_02: Here it is, here it is.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I said audit of six factors.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_02: So past week I looked at all my training, and again it happens because you know, if you log your training, then you can go back and look at it.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_02: All of mine is on my watch, all of it's on Strava, uh, all of it's on my own like trainerized coaching app.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_02: Past week training has been high.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_02: Then I look at my sleep, and I looked at my sleep, my average sleep was six hours and fifty-four minutes with one of those being under six hours, two of them being over under seven hours, and only one of them being over eight hours.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so I then put like, right, that's probably about that's over an hour less than I would normally do.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_02: And because my training load is very high, I also need to get really good sleep.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: So immediately training load high, sleep poor, like red flag.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: Right, there's there's there's a massive imbalance between that, and I'm thinking, okay, I'm breaking my body, like you say, you're breaking your body down, but you're not letting it recover.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: So that's the sleep.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_02: The recovery, I then put a recovery because it's slightly different.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_02: The recovery for me, maybe how I, you know, feel um how like how the body feels, I actually put good.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um and then nutrition, I put good mindset, I put perfect, so went higher than high.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm like, at the moment, my mindset is actually really good, so it's not a demotivation thing, which is the main bit for me that I need to that's the valuation.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_02: Is it demotivation or is it actual like you know, back off?
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then I also put life load, and at that point in my life, I put high, so I've got stuff that's going on in that last week.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_02: So I've gone training high, recovery good, nutrition good, mindset perfect, life load high, and then I've got sleep poor.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_02: And then I literally drew a little arrow and I said, right, take a rest week.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: So that that process going through it, and even as you go through that process, you realize straight away, as long as you're tracking or you've got a decent memory of like how things have been, if you're like decently self-aware and like reflective, you can immediately hit that like before.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_02: If I pushed on, I pushed through that night, like I was starting to get I'd start to get ill, I'd have to take like two weeks off, or I'd keep going and try and chase progress, and then you go into the injuries, then you go into the stuff that then takes more than a few weeks to really get back to.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um and that's a I mean that's a skill, it's something that I'm practicing, it's something that I'm gonna do going forward as my training shifts as I get back to running, is like managing the training load between I've been doing loads of heavy strength stuff um with like with the surgery and stuff, but going back to actually the the running is every single you know, maybe a few days, or when it comes about that something feels a little bit off from normal, have a look take stock, have a look, see what's up.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I think there's there's so many measurements of what does overtraining look like.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: And for instance, sleep often gets skewed, getting slightly more sick, feeling a little bit colder than normal, uh bit more agitated, mood swings.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: Entering your workouts just feeling sore consistently.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, being sore all the time.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so that there's many measurements of it, but I think quite a lot of the time, let's say an individual gets into the gym, they've trained before, but they they do a big training site uh uh uh phase, they maybe do 12 weeks, they're feeling top of the world, they're strong, they've lost weight, they're on the top of the world, and they just want to keep going because their energy is high, they're highly motivated, they've got momentum on their side, they got these great new habits.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: The issue is like that person is very difficult to tell to stop training because they feel amazing, but their sleep might not be so great, or they might have picked up a cold, but they're just pushing through it.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: And they're you know, they might be slightly sore, but because they're so inspired and they're not so educated on what over-training looks like, they don't realise they're actually probably hindering their progress, if not regressing from this extra additional strain they're putting on their body.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so practices like that are so important to kind of have a greater understanding of of where your head's at.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I you know, there's so many variables you can kind of look at there life load, stress, nutrition, etc.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that's that's certainly a very, very useful tool for people to look into.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think something you just mentioned there is that's equally as important, and it's uh again, so much easier said than done, um, especially when you're someone that wants to make progress, is being okay with not knowing where the top is.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_02: So being okay with stopping before you hit that boundary of like burning out.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_02: So like someone that's trained for 12 weeks, like they might might feel absolutely fine, but it's time to rest.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_02: But they feel like they don't need to rest, and it's like, well, we're gonna rest anyway.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know, having that structure, and you can do it more with uh weekly like periodization, four weeks on, one week off.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_02: Or you know, if you are hitting a bigger block, maybe six to eight weeks on, a couple of weeks off, or if you're doing a b a whole season if you're if you're more like let's say the professional athlete side of things, it's uh the whole summer season, you're pretty much on it.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_02: You might take little bits of dips like we're there and want to peek for main championships, but then at the end of that you might have like three weeks completely off training, absolutely nothing, and then you might have a little week off like in March or the start of April, something like that.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um but yeah, not knowing where the not being okay with not knowing where the top is probably one of the most underrated things, especially if you're someone that wants to push limits, but restraining yourself from doing it.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's like you're it feels like what you're sacrificing is reaching your potential when actually it might be the exact thing which is gonna get you to that potential over the long run.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly that.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, but what is over-training?
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: Is it overtraining or is it under recovering?
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's that's something that a lot of people get mixed up on.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: They look at maybe an influencer or they look at a professional athlete and they're following them on Instagram and TikTok and they're thinking, I want to look like him, so I'm gonna train like him.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: But you're also working a nine to five job and you've got kids, and you've got this massive life load that that individual does not have, and their recovery protocols are gonna be m far, far greater because they're not having to onboard all the stresses of life that you have and they don't, so they can get away with you know training six days a week and and doing two sessions a day because that's what their body's conditioned to do, and that's the life they've created around it.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, if you you don't need to do that in order to look that way, and in fact, a lot of the time you actually maybe make more benefits by training less and maximising your recovery, dialing in your nutrition, dialing in your recovery.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um because that way you can make have a lot more time spent recovering from the gym sessions, increasing the intensity of those sessions, and you're gonna look the desired way.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: Some people can look better than a professional athlete, although they'll be training a third less of the time.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: And if you're if you're chasing aesthetics, it it you time spent in the gym is not gonna get you that.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's much more skill-focused training or endurance-focused training is where you're gonna have to have a lot more time spent working out.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas for aesthetic stuff, I mean, you know, Charlotte, how many how many days a week do you train?
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: Four.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: And how many, like an hour and a half session?
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_02: Hour and a half to two.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so you have three days completed.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you're taking three days of full recovery.
• 38:31
  unknown: Yeah.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_02: Really?
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_02: So you're just training every other day?
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, because pretty much all four days are um they're mainly legs.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, okay.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: So just blast my CNS.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: But also, adding on to what you're saying about the influencers as well, you have to remember nothing on the internet is what it seems, and like that influencer might have the same life load as you, but they might not actually be doing what they're saying, and they might not be doing the workouts that they're showing.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: It might just be something to like inspire people or kind of give the wow factor for views.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, just literally never compare, and like the same like with their physiques as well, they might just naturally be genetically blessed.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, that workout that they're doing might not be the reason why they look that way.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_02: Of course.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and and and it'll be and you know, there's stuff that's on the on the spreadsheet, there's stuff that's saying, okay, this is the amount this is these are the rep ranges that they're doing, this is the intensity they're doing, this is their even if it is all bang on, it's like, oh, their RPE is this, if you copy this, their heart rate is whatever, the amount of sleep they're getting is is this, and you could try and copy that like exactly.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_02: But what if their approach to training is very relaxed?
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like I've been around people, especially like like when I was training with um Jamaicans out in the States, they're so relaxed, they're so chilled.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_02: Compare them to probably me and some of the Americans that are there, like uh that stressing about it, kind of, yeah, or trying to optimise everything and and stressing about every little detail, you know, they might be missing out on marginal gains, but I might be ruining the 90% by undoing it all with being stressed.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_02: So it's also about not just like if you compare it to yourself, it's you don't just copy the training that you recently or previously did to get you to a certain point because you want to replicate the result, you more so have to copy the approach to the training.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like how was life going at the time?
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_02: Did you put much pressure on yourself with you know with the the exact lift?
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_02: Were you obsessed with the numbers?
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_02: All of that certain things, like what was your relationship with your training like back then?
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_02: This is why I'm saying at the start, it's completely like multifactorial, you know, it is multifaceted, like you cannot tell someone how they're gonna feel because there's too many quantity and quality metrics like at play.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um uh have you guys had any experiences of overtraining?
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, hell yeah.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_02: I mean I've mentioned I've mentioned my uh mine and I'm currently recovering from my knee surgery, I don't think we need to talk more than that.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_00: Don't need to mention much more than that.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, majorly, majorly.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_00: And my big issue is as well, and what you guys kind of touched upon earlier, is knowing where to pull back in training, or or am I just being a bit of a wimp today?
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm really bad as like when I used to do my own programming, now because I've got my coach, I kind of listen just listen to what he says.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: Probably should do that, do pay for him, you know.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: But when I used to do my own programming, people are like, Oh, well, have you taken a D-load?
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: D load, what do you mean?
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like, don't need that, but like I would then kind of go, okay, you know what my head training has been dropping a little bit recently, and you know, with fluctuations with my cycle and stuff as well.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I'd then go into do a D-load session, feel great that day, and they'd absolutely smash it because I was like, Well, these Bulgarians feel bloody easy, I'm gonna go back up to the weight I was doing and do the reps I was doing, and then two or three days later I feel crap again.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm yeah, I'm not the the greatest at spotting it or thinking about like your kind of factors that you put in your um journal channels, like with the the the questions like okay, let me look at my sleep, let me look at this.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, okay, probably should chill out a bit.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_00: For me, I'm I've always been so like okay, I'll just go go go till I've start to feel a bit crap.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I've learned I've learned those lessons time and time again.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm definitely getting better at it.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely getting better at it now.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_00: Now it also helps that my coach kind of goes, Okay, well, you're you're still feeling sore entering that session.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's a big one for me.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's when I know I need to pull back.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: If my legs are still aching going into the next gym session, it's like, well, I'm clearly not recovering well enough.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like especially as an advanced lifter, you shouldn't really be get you shouldn't be getting DOMs in every session.
• 42:54
  unknown: Yeah.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I I think it's also quite difficult for someone to understand about us talking about overtraining when they've never over-trained before.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's that's kind of like you you have to kind of have the experience of doing it to then be like, oh god, I've been training for two months and I haven't progressed anything.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, right, well, let's have a look at that, okay.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, I think experience, I think we've all learned from experience about overtraining.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_01: We've all and why did we over-train in the first place?
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because we didn't have the education there that to understand what overtraining is.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's the kind of the main takeaway from today's podcast for everyone is it's a real thing, it's gonna plateau your progress, you're gonna feel like crap.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_01: It can sometimes turn into bad injuries, as Charlie has uh experienced, which has caused you to be out of running for two and two and a bit yeah.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_01: Two and a bit years and uh a very expensive surgery.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yes.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_00: Pretty cool scar, though.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you got pretty cool scar.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, these things happen and there's serious consequences, and that that's the kind of importance of periodizing your.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Training and um understanding those times to push and those times to ease off.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, if if there's naturally a time in your life like I've had recently with all this travel, uh you know, I have an amazing time and actually I've just been like to myself, I don't care if I gain a few kilos.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: Take it as a deload.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_01: I can take it as deloads as a natural time to kind of pull about pull back the training.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: I've enjoyed it and I've got back in the gym this week and I've got all the energy in the world, my mood's better, everything's better.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just like okay, this is this is great.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't really regret there's there's no point in kind of regretting doing anything because I've enjoyed myself.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that just comes from experience of of exercise and and and doing training plans and seeing how they go.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's also what you want to get out of yourself and out of the training itself.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_02: Like if if you for some reason like had you have this competition if you had it in two weeks' time, then you probably have a different outlook of it.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_02: You're like, oh right, maybe I shouldn't have, maybe I should like should have been training on holiday or whatever.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like it obviously depends on on the end the end goal.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I I think, yeah, on on your point of not knowing what it feels like to overtrain, it is very much like we're in a bit of a an optimization culture um right now where there are so many metrics that you can optimise from a scientific point of view, and there's so much great data.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_02: But the thing is you can't optimise when you don't know what is optimal for you.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like you have to, you know, it's all well and good saying, oh, do what's do what's best for you.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like if you're you know, if something if if you're like Charlotte for you training like four times a week now, that's what's best for you, may change in the next couple of years, but like that's that's what's going well right now.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_02: Uh you can't know that when you've just started out.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not and I I'm so reluctant, like as someone that's had so many setbacks with injuries and has overtrained at points, um, and has listened to coaches that have been telling me about training that really is just makes no sense in in hindsight.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_02: Is you kind of do want to know it's a balance of like you do want to know where the limits are, you might it might be valuable, it probably is, it is nearly 100% valuable knowing where your boundary is and where your limit is, where your burnout is, what it feels like to have that, um, and then to use that as trying to find new territory and then maybe pulling back from that, and then also once you're satisfied with not pushing all the time, then what does satisfaction and not knowing where the top is kind of look like for you?
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: And in a way, yeah, as you said, like you're kind of hesitant to say it, but in a way you do can't you do have to know because otherwise there's there does run the risk of you not pushing your training enough and then you're never making progress.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like getting that fine balance and go, okay, I'm a little bit burnt out, my knees a little bit sore.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: This is probably my limit at the moment.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_00: And too much change.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and too much of taking stock of of that and like how you're feeling.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, too much of that is almost like you're trying driving a car, but you've got the parking brake still on slightly.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_02: You're always checking, like every session you're hyper conscious of how you're feeling.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_02: And like the main thing for the most time is is train regardless of how you're feeling, but also when it comes to it, like you know, it might be every once in a while, every week, or every couple of weeks, and you start to feel different when there's a contrast, then have a look and see like what's changed, and if you can rationalise it.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's it kind of go adding to that.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_01: For me, it's for instance, we had a competition here, a fairly fun one, about three weeks ago-ish.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and competing and test weeks that we have implemented in Barm allows people to understand where that limit is.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_01: So, a great example of that is Jakob did a farmer's carry in class two weeks before, and his grip went after or he gave up after 40 meter carry.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that was really hard.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_01: Competition day, he did about 380 meters of farmer's carry and then gave up.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_01: And what a great indicator for him to understand actually, when I have a bit of adrenaline going through my body, my limit, he was he was not even 20% of his capacity.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_01: And and it's so it's always great to have a test week or a competition to understand where those barriers are.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's so easy to train in the gym and become content with the numbers you're lifting and think that's your limit.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, the test week we did at Barn, I think it was what That was about No, we did uh No, I was in China weeks, weeks, sorry.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was in China, so yeah, but again, like a lot of people probably surprise themselves with some numbers they hit on that.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um we're sort of surprised with the numbers they hit in that.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_01: We're like, oh, okay, well that's my limit.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, what should I be doing for three reps now?
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_01: About ninety percent of that?
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it just gets sets up good indications.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, you do have good like there are there are predictor um kind of one rep max predictors, ten rep max predictors, that sort of stuff that you can do online.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's um off the top of my head, I can't remember the name of it, but you know, if you there's that calculator site that calculates everything, one at max, calories, it can crack your estimated in the one level three at max.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like if you you know, and and and like you've kind of alluded to, it's it's having that like safer environment.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_02: So like if you're in a safe environment, then you give yourself the um you afford yourself the opportunity for your mental side to be the limit.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas let's say you're just like trying to max out a squat with not great form, that's just a bad environment to push.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_02: But if you were to do a hip thrust or like of like say like farmers carry when there's a lot of adrenaline pumping through, those are kind of like low risk environments to be able to push.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_02: So even finding an environment to find out if it is a physical limitation or a mental limitation is always great.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I spent so much time on the the watt bike and the airbikes and the the ski erg and all of the stuff which is like low impact because of injury, that that's the reason that I know exactly that my it's not my mental side, it's the physical.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_02: So I think finding finding a safe environment, having a having a coach, having someone that gives you the right technique so that you can then explore gives you the confidence then when you have those indicators, you know it's probably not a um a mental limitation.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's probably a a you can make an informed decision about about that.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_00: And again, as we said, it just comes with experience, kind of learning the difference between mental fatigue and muscular fatigue as well.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um that just comes with experience.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, 100%.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_01: Any last notes you want to add to today's podcast, Charlie?
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think you got some things written down.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_02: Uh let's have a little look.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um there's a well yeah, one one of it, I mean we've discussed it, it's the it's the privilege of discipline.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_02: It's that discipline provides the freedom to explore.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um just having having those little stock takes, having maybe something at the start of a session.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_02: I know that Keely Hodgkinson, the 800 metre runner, um, was the Olympic gold medalist.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_02: Uh never heard of her, mate.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_02: Never heard of her?
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_02: No, so she's quite good, she's up and coming, doing alright.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_02: Broke the world record a couple.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know, who knows?
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_02: Who knows?
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um she uh I listened to a podcast with um her co two of her coaches, Trevor and Jenny, and they were they were saying about before a big session, they do a counter-movement jump test.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_02: Literally just kind of you know, do a little squat, jump as high as you can, and she has markers for uh she has like a kind of a 30-day average or you know six weekly average or something like that, and if her numbers are down, I don't know exactly exactly the percentage, but normally it's around if they're lower than 15, like 15% below what your average is over that period of time that you've been testing it, then you are under like neuromuscular fatigue.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_02: So they'll be able to see with her, they'll do that a couple of times a week, maybe the day of like a big session where they want to get the most out of it, they will know that if her jump numbers are off because it's maximum like maximal effort, but not gonna like cook you for the session, that she's underrecovered, and so that's a really good thing, like for for athletes.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_02: That's really cool to have that.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_02: But I think if you know if you can have that as a your average Joe, have that as your mental check.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like if you're you know, maybe if you're a bit irritated, even like getting irritated by traffic or a minor inconvenience more than you would normally, like that's a really great time just to take stock and think, alright, life load, what is it actually?
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_02: You know, is it is it the person that cut you off or is it something else?
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, or to have that, you know, like the the the soreness as an advanced lifter.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_00: Think about it as um in a gym setting as well, like an easy way you can kind of replicate similar kind of thing is with a movement.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's the importance of using warm-up sets and like logging, like you know, your warm-up sets, giving yourself only like you know, five or six reps to warm up with and a lighter load, and just analysing how that lighter load feels on that day as well.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um could be quite a good thing for people who are listening to kind of apply that to real life.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_02: I thought I think that's so good.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_02: I've been I've got a couple of guys that I'm coaching with, Andy and uh Tommy might be, but mainly Andy, it was today.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_02: We've got him doing four sets of four as his like main lift to build like a lot of strength, and that's that's a really aggressive thing, and you've also got you and you've just got to find the right weight, and he he said like you know, with the heat and sleeping, like this week he actually hasn't done a session since last Saturday, and so I didn't and I'm going off the numbers that we did you know last Thursday, and it is having you know warming up, but like you say, five to six reps, or even like two to three at around the weight that you like to do.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_02: If it feels way too heavy and you're like, okay, I'm I'm warmed up, but I'm just not feeling it, then just go based off effort.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_00: Drop it down, brother.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_02: Drop it down, don't worry about the numbers.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_02: Some days you can get too obsessed with numbers and start chasing.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um 100%.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_02: But really, what you want to be doing is stacking weeks and months of training.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a good thing to kind of jump on top of, especially when people have started lifting and they'll they'll hear the word progressive overload thrown around a lot.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_00: And you automatically think in order to progress, you need to ensure every week you're beating the reps, every week you're beating the weight, and that is not how it works.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_00: There will be weeks where you will just be sat at that same weight for a while, and then it's a case of okay, how can I progress this, or or maybe there'll be weeks where you have to drop it down again, and then suddenly a few weeks later, you're up heavier, or you're up five more reps on that same weight.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, another another good tip for people who are starting out.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_02: If you want if you if you listen to this and you're really interested about that concept, I did a whole episode last week, or it would have been maybe two or three episodes back.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_02: Washington gain, don't prove, and it's all about stacking the sessions, going based off effort, not trying to prove numbers when you're not ready to do it, and taking the ego out a little bit.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and like you say, Charlotte, just you know, doing exactly as you said.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, play the long game.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_02: Alright.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_02: Alright.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_02: Should we finish there, guys?
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_02: I think we're all done.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for listening.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um share this with a a a friend who has got into it, a loved one, someone who you might feel needs a kick up the backside, someone that uh is you know struggling with a busy schedule.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, or even if you are this person, you know, yeah.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think we recommend everyone goes now and over trains.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_01: Learns.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and find out exactly where you are.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_01: Basically go help a leather.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um and then and then you're forced to have the mindset of uh not knowing where the top is.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_00: Or if you know someone who's being a bit too hard on themselves.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm saying they're not really doing Be hard on yourself.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_00: To be yeah, be yeah, tell them, hey, you're being a you're being a pus pus, but go and listen to this podcast.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_01: See you later, guys.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_01: Bye bye.