Latest / Leaders in Customer Loyalty, Powered by Loyalty360 / #398: Loyalty360 Loyalty Live | Caitlin Watson and David Shaw, WillowTree

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#398: Loyalty360 Loyalty Live | Caitlin Watson and David Shaw, WillowTree · Leaders in Customer Loyalty, Powered by Loyalty360

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Good afternoon, good morning.
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: This is Ryan Massey, director of Client Relations at Loyalty360, welcoming you to another edition of Loyalty Live.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: In this series, we talk to the leading agencies, technology partners and consultants in customer channel and brand loyalty about the technology trends and best practices that impact the ability of brands to drive unique experiences, enhance engagement and, most importantly, customer loyalty.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Today, we have the pleasure of speaking with Kaitlyn Watson, partner Marketing Services, and David Shaw, vp, business Development.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: Welcome, kaitlyn, david, I'm glad you could both join us.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: Thank you, good to be here.
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: Thanks, caitlin.
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Can you tell us a little bit about yourself, your role with Willowtree and your background?
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: Sure Well, I started out my career in marketing actually at an association.
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: It's really where I fell in love with customer loyalty and thinking really deeply about customer journeys and how to engage them.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: With Willowtree, I've been here for the last three years helping to build our marketing services department, specifically on the areas of loyalty, both strategy technology, helping to build out our MarTech services, crm lifecycle really anything in and around the customer journey.
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: Journey automation is what my team does.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: We have about 70 professionals under us right now in this part of our organization and I believe Dave will speak a little bit more about Willowtree at a whole, so I will pass it over to him.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Awesome, david, over to you.
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: Sure.
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: So I lead our business development function for all things consumer, which for us means QSR, travel and hospitality, retail, cpg, lots of other things.
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: My background is actually all on the strategy side, so I've led insight and strategy teams for my whole career.
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: So this is a little bit of an interesting jaunt that I'm doing into the biz dev world with all the sellers.
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: But it's really interesting to start to apply some of that strategy brain to how we go to market with individual companies and with specific vertical strategies, all of them having to do with a lot of loyalty things, as you might expect.
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: And yeah, willowtree has been around for a long time.
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: We were built on a heritage of mobile applications and so we still do a lot of that work.
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: We have since kind of blossomed into lots of things, as Caitlin mentioned, where marketing services is a really big part of that, and, as we're talking about today, loyalty programs.
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: Architecting those programs, managing and even hands-on keyboards, operating those programs is a pretty big chunk of now what Willowtree is doing in a go-to-market strategy.
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: Excellent.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: Now for those who may not be familiar with how Willowtree supports a brand's customer loyalty efforts, dave, can you give us a brief overview of what you do and the industries you work with?
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so we do a lot of work across lots of industries.
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: So I'm responsible for a few of them, but in addition to some of the more consumer-focused ones, we also do a lot of finance.
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: We do a lot of healthcare, we do a lot of telecom.
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: So it's pretty wide berth of verticals that we deal with and I would say that our expertise ranges from somebody that doesn't know what to do, doesn't have a platform, doesn't have a loyalty program of any kind.
• 3:35
  Speaker 3: We do consultation on how to pick a platform, how to negotiate a deal even with those platforms, how to get onboarded, how to get internal team members skilled up on those platforms.
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: We go from there all the way down to.
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: Oftentimes we're the people that are operating those platforms on behalf of clients.
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: So we are running loyalty CRM programs all the way down to doing the actual creative that goes out in the email.
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: So it's kind of an end-to-end service that we operate.
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: Not everybody is at every point, obviously, so there are folks that have lots of stuff in-house and we help them.
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: There are folks that outsource completely to us and we eventually train in-house folks to take over.
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: So it runs kind of the gamut, but we're kind of a full service end-to-end partner for anybody that wants that level of loyalty or CRM assistance.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: Outstanding Caitlin, how do you define customer loyalty?
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: What does it mean to your organization?
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: There are so many lenses in which to think about customer loyalty, lenses in which to think about customer loyalty.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: We utilize a variety of frameworks to kind of put our arms around it and help communicate that with the brands that we work with, one of my favorites.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: That, I think, helps to really encapsulate all that goes into the psychological customer loyalty that a customer may be thinking about with the brand.
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: It's called the investment model of commitment.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: It was actually started as a theory and a model to measure interpersonal relationships and romantic relationships and relationships, but over the years has become something that is able to really quantify emotional loyalty and brand customer loyalty.
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: It looks at relationship investment.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: So how much as a person do I think I'm giving into this brand and pouring into this company?
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: How hard is it for me to interact with their services or download their app or become a member?
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: It then takes in how satisfied I am.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: So how much do I perceive satisfaction?
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: Does it give me a warm and fuzzy feeling at the end of the day?
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: Does it make me feel like part of an environment that's bigger than me?
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: It takes away any quality of alternatives I see so kind of minusing out.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: Do I perceive there to be another brand or another thing that does what I'm looking for, and then overall kind of that equation sums out to customer brand commitment, thinking about how do I measure customer loyalty.
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: This is a model that we see have accuracy across geos, across regions, across cultures, across industries, across geos, across regions, across cultures, across industries.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: So in my opinion, it's really kind of a really easy equation to follow, but a summation of how to measure and think about customer loyalty for brands and companies alike.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: Excellent Caitlin.
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: In our 2024 State of Customer Loyalty Report, 79% of marketers said they have an internal interest in their brand to update, enhance or completely redo their customer loyalty offerings.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: What enhancements?
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: are your clients currently focused on and what trends are you seeing when it comes to loyalty program improvements and updates?
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, we meet a lot of customers that come to Willowtree for help or for guidance and they're typically focused on things that will give them a competitive edge.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: So, loyalty I think the average person don't quote me on this that has about 18 loyalty programs that they're signed up for in and around that number.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: So there's kind of this constant questioning of how can we stand out, how can we make our brand different, how can we make a program that really speaks to us ourselves as a brand?
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: One of the things that is a hot trend we're seeing is gamification.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: So Willowtree, kind of as not only a marketing services partner but also a partner that can do web development, mobile app development we have this huge engineering practice for often helping our brands and our customers think about how do I create these fun gamified experiences that are going to create stickiness for our customers, experiences that are going to create stickiness for our customers.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: The other thing I will say is that there's a huge movement to update the underlying architecture that powers loyalty.
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: So, on one hand, we're having folks come to us about a lot of those external things.
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: How can I create gamification?
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: And then, on the other hand, we're having folks say, oh gosh, we can't even get there until we have a CDP that organizes our customer data appropriately.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: How can we rethink about the architecture so that way we can power those experiences going forward?
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: So kind of all along the spectrum.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: But we're usually seeing folks at the tail end or at the beginning stages.
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: Awesome Caitlin brands are keenly focused on delivering authentic personalization in their customer loyalty programs, but sometimes they struggle with relevancy in their communications and offerings.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: What are some of the challenges you've observed while working with?
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: brands, that data piece really the underlying of those fun, exciting, effortless feeling moments where you're giving that one-to-one personalization is a very complex and often messy data architecture that has to power that.
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: So understanding all of the things the customer has done before, all of their preferences, who they are, what they might like, really is needed to power those experiences.
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: So we're often helping our brands think about you know what is their data, how does it need to be clean?
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: What tools do they need in their architecture to orchestrate and automate those experiences?
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: So, in kind of that very classic crawl walk run approach, we're helping to break down where is someone in that process and how can we move them to that utopia, that one-to-one relevant personalization.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: That's very interesting, dave.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: Ai is another topic top of mind for our brand audience.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: While many brands are early in understanding or implementing AI into their loyalty efforts, there seem to be significant opportunities.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: What specific opportunities do you believe AI offers for enhancing loyalty programs, customer engagement and retention?
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: I think it's a slippery, dangerous slope kind of, but I do think that AI is going to help us test more things more often.
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: So right now we are not 100 by hand making segments and not 100 by hand making journeys and paths that we're pushing people down.
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: But I do think that ai is going to let us accelerate what we're doing and create more segments that maybe we didn't anticipate or didn't think about or could be even smaller.
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: So we always want to get to one to one.
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: The goal is to get to.
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: You know, I, dave, get the most personal possible journey from every possible brand, and we're not to that point yet.
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: Ai could maybe get me to a place where I'm a little bit closer, where my micro segment is very defined on the things that I care about and things that I interact with and things that I do that maybe a person does simply not have the capacity to go down to.
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: You know, take a million people and get into micro segments of like 30.
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: Ai, maybe, is one of those things that could help us get there.
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: I think we run the risk of it being a little bit too formulaic or too creepy to be like very, very, very hyper-personalized, might feel a little uncanny, valley a little bit.
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: So I think there's always going to need to be some people obviously interacting with AI or with the model or whatever.
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: But I do think it gives us the opportunity potentially to scale in a way that you know, like Caitlin's team, our team at Willowtree can't do just with hands, could do potentially with a model.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: Interesting.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: Caitlin.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: What do you think is working for your clients right now when it comes to building successful loyalty programs and strategies?
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: Can you provide an example or two?
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: Sure, where we see the most success is when companies are taking that intentional time to understand their audience, understand their user.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: So, investing in customer research, we like to do what we call customer ride-alongs.
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: So a great example is a beverage provider that we work with.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: Our team actually spent two months riding along with their drivers, and interacting with customers and going to different stores and really understanding, not only on paper, what does the data tell us about customer behavior and transactions, but understanding those intangibles.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: What is the experience like all the way from a beverage arriving to a store to a customer, driving there to purchasing it, to taking it home, really investing that time and deeply understanding the entire journey, not only online but offline as well, and then creating experiences that delight along that way and that help kind of users to that ultimate goal or that fandom or that loyalty.
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: Another company that we worked with is a large sports entertainment company.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: So, similarly, attending those events Dave is smiling, it's one of his favorite clients of all time.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: They have to do with wrestling events so really actually going to those events, participating in those, understanding where that offline and that online world can connect and how that fandom can be created in those moments of customer delight and experiences along the way.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: So, to sum it all up, my headline for that would be to deeply understand your customer, not only what your data is telling you, but going out there, being present with them, participating in user surveys, whatever it might look like for your company, but deeply understanding your customer, their real journey, their emotions, their pain points, and then figuring out how loyalty plays a part in making a loyal customer.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: Very interesting, david.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: Are there programs you admire or are loyal to?
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: From a customer loyalty perspective, what do you like about their offerings?
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: So I will confess to be a Taco Bell person.
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: What I like about Taco Bell is two things.
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: One, there is a fairly immediate sense of joy because you earn things very quickly, at least at the levels that I order Taco Bell at.
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: You're able to get free stuff.
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: Frequently I'm at a higher tier, which probably plays to some emotional something or other in my soul that I appreciate that they recognize that I'm at a higher tier, which is in reality not that hard to get to but makes me feel a little bit better.
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: And maybe the most important thing is when you do earn a reward with them you have immense choice so I'm able to spend those points, air quotes, on whatever I want.
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: There's a million different options and I think Chipotle is another obvious one that everybody kind of cites, but it's a.
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: It's a great one.
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: There Again lots of choice, very transparent methods to earn points.
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: It's right there at the checkout.
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: I go there frequently and so I earn on a on a frequent enough basis to where I feel some kind of benefit from the program.
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: I I'm not so much a badges person, I'm not so much a like weird sticker person, but if you are, they're doing that too.
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: You know they're geo-fencing their locations to remind me to check in, so make sure I get points.
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: So doing lots of like little things right, and I realized now that I've made like kind of a double Mexican, uh food, uh, answer to your question.
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: But I think those are two programs that are doing a great job, but maybe for slightly different reasons.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: Sure Terrific.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: Now, David, do you have any closing advice or thoughts?
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: What's next for Willowtree as we move forward in 2024?
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: I think we're like I said before we're trying to get to as close to one-to-one as you can and try to do it in the most authentic way possible.
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: So we have a conversation internally about how to craft a loyalty program that is equal parts transactional financial benefit, so I get something as well as it is emotional, recognition based benefit.
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: I want to feel like a regular and I also want to get free things every once in a while.
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: You know it's both of those things and I think if you run the risk of it being just one of them, you're going to leave people on the table Like if it's too transactional, the second you turn the deals off McDonald's, I'll stop going or I'll stop using the app or I'll stop, you know whatever buying the thing you want me to buy.
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: If it's all emotional and I don't ever get a free anything or don't ever get a deal of any kind, maybe I'm unsatisfied in a different way.
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: So we're trying to blend those two things together to make sure that we're having a well-rounded approach to a loyalty program, and I think that's something that every program should endeavor to do is to have both sides of that house taken care of in a way that motivates the type of behavior that you want to motivate with the loyalty program in the first place.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: Very good, Okay, Caitlin.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: So we're going to go ahead and get started with the quickfire questions.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: There's 10 of them If you just give the first word or short phrase that comes to mind, whatever you're thinking, and we'll go ahead and go through these 10.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: Sounds good.
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: So, caitlin, what is your favorite word?
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: What?
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: is your favorite word.
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: Oh, that is a hard one.
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: Probably every month it changes.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: I have been thinking a lot about the word bespoke, so kind of curated custom.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: You know how are we making unique experiences?
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: There's a lot that kind of wraps into that word, but bespoke is something I've been thinking a lot about.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: Excellent.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: What is your least favorite word?
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: Propinquity.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: It's something we use a lot as we talk about kind of the magic that happens when you're in person with someone or a group of people and kind of co-working.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: But it's a fun word to say.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: It doesn't roll off the tongue very well.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: In the bonus round.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: We're going to see who can spell it.
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: How do you pronounce it again?
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: Propinquity, Propinquity.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: Okay, that's a note.
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: I've never heard that word.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: What excites you?
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: I think the blending of art and science kind of why I fell in love with marketing.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: I think the blending of art and science kind of why I fell in love with marketing just some magic that you can create when you're thinking, you know, really data focused about something, but then blending a lot of art that comes in with marketing and branding and loyalty.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: Sure.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: What do you find tiresome Meetings?
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: That could have been an email, like most professionals.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: That's fair.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: Uh, what book do you like to recommend to colleagues?
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: oh, let me think about that one um oasis conversations, I think is a great one.
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: Um, right now I'm in a season of helping a lot of marketers grow into people, managers and directors themselves, so having those hard conversations with staff in a way that's kind and clear, um, I think it's a great one to read for all leaders.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: Okay, oasis Conversations.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: What profession other than your own would you like to attempt?
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: Oh, my partner and I have dreams of starting a coffee shop one day.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: So probably small business owner if we could, or the timing was right.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: What do you enjoy doing?
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: that you don't get to do often Working with rescue animals.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: I have two rescue animals a giant 120 pound Great Pyrenees dog and a tiny diabetic seven pound cat.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: So, very passionate about rescue animals, we have a couple of local shelters that we like to volunteer time.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: I wish that I had more, but always on the to-do list.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: Who inspired you to become the person you are today?
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: I would have to say my father.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: He is a small business owner himself and I watched him grow an entire business out of just our home office.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: So really seeing him strive, become a great leader, a great employer, I admire his hustle, his grit.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: I'm from Philadelphia so we talk about grit quite a lot.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: His grit and from Philadelphia, so we talk about grit quite a lot.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: It's kind of ingrained in our culture.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: But yeah, he's definitely inspired me to keep growing and always learn.
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: What do you typically think about at the end of the day?
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: Probably which Netflix show we're going to watch in bed.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: But I'm more of a professional setting.
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: I always love to do just kind of a quick recap of what did I learn, what was surprising, but what was hard, um, and what can I take into the next day how do you want to be remembered by your friends and family?
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: Hmm, that's a good one.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: Someone very giving, giving with my time, giving with my things very close to my friends and family, so wanting to make sure I always have time for them is something really important to me.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: Well, I want to thank you both for taking the time to speak with us today.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: It was great hearing from you, from your perspective on customer loyalty, and we look forward to hearing more from you throughout the rest of the year.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: I want to thank everyone else for listening.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: We look forward to having you back on our next Loyalty Live soon.