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DeeDee Fisher on Moving Beyond the Reaction in Communication · Expertly Said

• Kristen Sweeney: My guest today is Dee Dee Fisher, founder of Discover Response. Dee Dee is a strategic communication leader, executive coach, and entrepreneur with three decades of experience guiding executives and teams to communicate with compassion and clarity. Her speaking and coaching work centers on one mission, teaching people to move communication beyond the reaction. Dee Dee is the creator of the Compassion Process Learning Framework, a transformative model designed to shift communication from reaction to results. She's used the CPL framework with corporations, universities, and nonprofits. You're listening to Expertly Said, a podcast on the art and impact of communication. I'm Kristen Sweeney, founder and CEO of Every Little Word. working with Boeing, Intel, GNC, UVA Darden, Vital Voices, and many others to help leaders navigate complexity, build trust, and drive collaboration. Didi, welcome to the show. DeeDee Fisher: Hi Christine, I'm so honored and humbled to be with you. Thank you so much. Kristen Sweeney: Happy to have you here. Can you share a little bit more about your origin story? This is a ⁓ question I ask most guests, but ⁓ your origin story, I think, starts maybe a little bit earlier than most. So ⁓ tell us a little bit about your upbringing and why you kind of trace that as the starting point for your professional journey. DeeDee Fisher: Sure, thank you for asking. ⁓ Yes, so I was born and raised in Southeast Idaho. people always say, I've never met anyone from Idaho. I go, yes, because from the whole state, there's not very many of us, first of all. And then most people stay. And they love it. And quite honestly, I still have a home there. I love it. 20 minutes from Yellowstone, Montana. So what was so interesting about my childhood is my parents bought a Chevron gas station from my grandparents. Kristen Sweeney: You Yeah. They stay. Okay. That's it for this episode of Expertly Said. We are produced by Every Little Word, a boutique content and communications agency. If you like what you heard, you know what to do. Subscribe, share the episode with a colleague, or leave us a review. If you want to connect with me directly, please do. You can find me on LinkedIn, just search Kristen Sweeney. Thanks for listening. Talk soon. DeeDee Fisher: And as a family business, you were required to work. So you went to work and did whatever you could even as a child, whether that was filling the pop coolers, right? So when that was when we had old fashioned front load coolers and everything had to be brought from somewhere else, or if that was sweeping grease in the shop, or if that was putting your small kid hands inside of an engine where the guys couldn't get to, like it was just an array of things, right? But what was really interesting is when I moved to working in the convenience store part. And then I was in charge of deliveries and writing checks and dealing with the farmers and getting them their gas and fuel and their deliveries and whatever it took. And it was then that I realized, wow, this is a communication style that I was born into that really doesn't work for me. And to lay my now 50-year-old version of definition on it, it was what everyone would do is state their point of view. They would just simply say, Kristen Sweeney: Mm-hmm. DeeDee Fisher: I need this done, why isn't it done? They wouldn't even say why, they just say, you said you would do this, I need it now. And then there would be this argument about why it's not happening. And I quickly learned that if I bypassed that part of it, even with my own dad, he was fast and furious and doing a lot, and he'd have an initial reaction, and if I just listened to the noun of what he needed, and then just did that, and just all the, All the other stuff, I just avoided. And so when somebody was upset or something was late, I would just be like, okay, I'm sorry. And this is what happened and we'll be there shortly. Right? And even my dad could see it. One time there was a guy from California who came in to get gas and Chevron was offering four cents off per gallon. So it would show a price on that pump. But when they came in to pay, you would subtract the four cents per gallon. And this guy was like, but that's not what the pump says. And I'm like, yes, you get to pay less. Well, no, I want to pay what the pump says. And like, I was so like committed to like getting him to understand because it's less money, right? I was like so confused. And what was so great is my dad happened to walk in at that moment and he heard it and all he did was walk around and all he did was touch me on the shoulder. And I knew enough to know that just meant like, let it go. And then later I said, God let him go pay. He wants to give you extra money. Like it's really like, you know, whatever. was only going to be a dollar or something, right? Like four cents. But it was just like, why does this person not want to listen to me? And when he left, I said, okay, tell me. And he's like, well, you just don't care if he's wrong or just let him be right. It doesn't matter. And just take his money. He's like, he's going to get in his car and leave and you're never going to see him again. Kristen Sweeney: Let him overpay for the gas. DeeDee Fisher: You know, right? It's not like it's one of our ongoing clients. It was a Taurus probably on his way to Jackson Hole, right? So, yes. Kristen Sweeney: Yeah. Yeah, that's super interesting. Something I think about and sometimes say to my own kids is like, do you want this thing to happen or do you want to be right? And like when you've got two little girls fighting who aren't always supremely rational, either one of them in the moment, it's like, well, do you want to watch a movie or do you want to be right? know, sometimes you have to choose. DeeDee Fisher: Yeah. You do have to choose sometimes, right? And learning that so early and learning the, I call it evangelistic way of speaking, know, ⁓ just do this and everything will be okay. You know, just get me my fuel, just fix my car. Just right. It was just like an evangelistic way of speaking is what I call it. And know stating their POV. Kristen Sweeney: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's so interesting. tell us, take us a little further down your career journey, because obviously you are one of the folks who ⁓ left Idaho. And so tell us kind of where you went next and cover the space between kind of there and discover a response of where you are today. DeeDee Fisher: Yep. Well, so what's so great is I had a grandmother who really saw me, you know, that who I was and that I needed to leave. And she just sat down and she said, your way of being is somewhere in the world will be appreciated, but it's not going to be here. Like, this is the way things are here. And she actually said, you can't stay here and be like this with all these men. It's just not going to be happy for you. She's like, so go off to college. Have a great time, like all of that. Kristen Sweeney: Mm-hmm. DeeDee Fisher: So I went to a college in Idaho. I majored in psych until my senior year, like right before the end of my junior year. My advisor came to me and he said, what would you tell a woman who was being abused? And I said, well, I'll tell her to leave. And he's like, exactly. This is why you can't be a counselor, because you can't tell your client what to do. And I'm like, but she needs to do that. And he's like, and that may be true, but that's not the process. He's like so. Kristen Sweeney: Interesting. DeeDee Fisher: I really think you should go down to comms. And here's the name of the advisor and here's all your classes and we've got it all arranged for you because we think you'll be amazing. Yeah. Kristen Sweeney: Hahahaha Wow. Talk about being seen, right? And like, not judged, but being seen for who you are. That's fascinating. DeeDee Fisher: Of course, I'll never forget him. His name was Dr. Joe and the gentleman in comms was Dr. Jack. it's you just don't forget those moments, right? Where somebody actually sees you and tells you what to do with you, like guides you as as a young adult, like where you need to fit in the world. So that was amazing. And then I went to Arizona after graduation and found a company. I always said I want business communication to be different than what I know it currently is. Kristen Sweeney: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. DeeDee Fisher: So I found a company that was selling a product like five step course to executives inside of all the Phoenix Valley ⁓ corporations to train their executives. So you would train the executive in a new type of communication and new type of structure and new type of time management. And then you would train other people. It was making a big impact. And that was the thing I said to, ⁓ his name was Reese Biden that hired me. He said, and he was one of the founders. He said, why this? Kristen Sweeney: Mm-hmm. DeeDee Fisher: And I told him, said, because our communication matters more than anything. So I was off and running from there. Kristen Sweeney: Nice. Yeah, yeah. Awesome. And when did you decide to go out on your own? DeeDee Fisher: ⁓ So the first time I went out on my own was I left there and I was engaged to a man who was running his own company in the nutritional industry and he was brokering products to contract manufacturers because everybody needs the raw goods. And so I started doing that and then I was still consulting on the side and then I was like, really want to help women. Like what I'm learning about nutrition, if they knew what I knew, they'd be doing what I'm doing, right? Losing weight, getting rid of cramps, like, ⁓ wow, this is so amazing. So I put together a project and sold it to general nutrition centers. So that was my first on my own go out, like really throw it out there. Then I wrote a whole plan of self-talk, so self-communication, not just exercise and eat well and take a vitamin, but what are you saying to yourself currently about who you are? What's your inner dialogue? How do you love yourself? How do you take care of yourself? And that was the first time during that pitching that project after it was on the shelves. Kristen Sweeney: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. DeeDee Fisher: ⁓ I always tell this story, I talk about her a lot on the person who influenced you and they don't even know they influenced you, know, LinkedIn will always give you that question. And I always say it was Gayle King because we pitched to the Oprah show and Gayle said, you know, we're never putting an adjustable up. She's like, because the liability is just too great, right? First of all, nutraceutical products are not regulated in the United States, right? It's getting better. Kristen Sweeney: Yeah. Right, right. DeeDee Fisher: And there are regulations where they need to be, but it is not regulated to the point of like a pharmaceutical. And she's like, there's too much liability, anything can happen, right? And she's like, but your writing is so amazing. This is what you need to focus on. And I was like, really? Like people need to be told like how to think about themselves and how to talk to themselves. I thought like it would be a little bit of help, right? know, like 15%, not like the 85%. Kristen Sweeney: Right, yep. Yeah. DeeDee Fisher: So that was the first time that somebody said that. And then the second time somebody said that was I moved to Charlottesville, Virginia, and I was at an event and there was this guy jitterbugging. I went, like he was much older than me, like you know, so he's like in his late 50s, same age as my parents. And I went and asked his wife if I could dance with him. Because being from a country place, you learn how to do that, right? Learn how to two step and jitterbug and country swing. And we're dancing and talking and he's like, Kristen Sweeney: That's really cool. Yeah. DeeDee Fisher: Where are you from? And I told him I was from Idaho and he's like, get out of here, I'm from Idaho. And I'm like, no way, right? Here's this guy from Harvard, PhD, and he's like, where did you grow up? And I said, Idaho Falls. And he's like, so did I. I'm like, no way, right? Like, you're so far, like literally on the other side of the country. So then we just got into a conversation. He's like, what are you doing? And I told him and he's like, I'm writing a book on entrepreneurs. I think you should be in my book and we should write a case study on you. Kristen Sweeney: Yeah. DeeDee Fisher: and we should teach this to all the MBA students. And I'm like, really? Really? wanna do that? So like humbling moment. then ⁓ I did after that, we pitched that, we pitched another project to GNC, which they did not take. was really, ⁓ really forward on self responsibility and nutrition. And they were just not there yet. They were still in the bodybuilding mode. And so at that point, it was like start a new career or go ahead and have a baby. So that's where I was. So I'm like, I'm gonna have a baby and I'm gonna take some time off. Kristen Sweeney: Yeah, good for you. Good for you. Nice. How long was your focus on parenting? DeeDee Fisher: ⁓ Until she was about 10, 11. Yeah, but did the nonprofit fundraiser, still out there, pushing forward, making life better, working with kids when I could a lot. Anytime when somebody would say, can you work with the kids? Can you teach them this? Or can you teach them that? I was always like first in line, right? Let me, yes, I wanna help them. Yes, let's do that. And then, ⁓ Kristen Sweeney: Okay, nice. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. DeeDee Fisher: CPL and Beyond the Reaction came around along like Discover Response was always my tagline. If you discover what you're responding to in any area of life, you can make things better. Like if you just slow down and figure that out, like are you responding to your past? Are we responding to the words that are spoke? Are you responding to pressure of life or the pressure of parenting or the pressure of marriage, whatever it is? So that was always there for me and I thought it was a great name for a company. But this... Kristen Sweeney: Yeah. Mm-hmm. DeeDee Fisher: CPL tool actually happened during COVID because I was doing so much consulting online. And I think people slowed down enough to actually want something different than just like forward progress, make like just whatever they were working on. They really wanted something more like the meat of it. Kristen Sweeney: It was a big time for reflection for a lot of people, right? You saw so much like job changing and not just because of ⁓ the economic conditions. Obviously that was a big part of it. But yeah, a lot of people, I baked sourdough and thinking. DeeDee Fisher: Yeah, sourdough, forced reflection, so much time at home, right? Like when do you ever like not just like your day is like 10 hours, right? Get up, get ready, rush out the door, do your day. And then by the time you rush back home, you're looking at 10 to 12 hours. And now there's all this time to reflect. So people started asking me, they're like, no, I want to just talk about communication. And I'm like, so what do you, tell me what it is I'm saying that you mean by that, because I still was like, tell me which part of it. Kristen Sweeney: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. DeeDee Fisher: And so then I went back and I took those notes and I went back and I said, okay, what did the professor say? What did Gail say? Like who, these people who started saying that to me. And so then I said, okay, how can I come up with a tool? How can I come up with a, basically a process that when we're in a situation or if we could be that way all the time, what would happen to our quality of communication? You know, not the quantity, but the actual quality of our communication and relationships. Kristen Sweeney: Yeah. DeeDee Fisher: If we created something that people, if I created something that people could actually follow the process. And I was, I was really influenced by scrum. You know, I took a scrum training and I was like, this is basically what I'm doing with comms. This is so interesting. Right. So that's, tied it into that, like just, ⁓ I can call this a process. They're calling that a process. I wouldn't have thought like, Hey team, do this and then come back and talk in a week. Do what it happened, you know, report back. That's what scrum is. Kristen Sweeney: Yeah. interesting. DeeDee Fisher: do X, report back Y, and are we still unfocused for Z or are we adjusting? And I was like, ⁓ yeah, I gotta write a formula for communication. Kristen Sweeney: Yeah, yeah, I know what you mean, the things that you're inherently doing. And then you realize that in some other sector, like there's a much fancier, more structured name. And, you know, obviously being in communications, I think we know that that kind of framing or rapper can add a lot of value and really determine like perception of something is something I've encountered too, a lot. I talk about how early in my career, like basically just used to make fun of the idea of being strategic and I thought it was just like a big buzzword and I was like, strategy, it's just something people say when they don't want to get anything done. Everything that matters is like about being operational and actually executing. If you don't get anything done, the strategy doesn't matter. I still believe that for the record, but I took ⁓ a strengths finder assessment. And one of my top skills was strategic. And I was like, what the hell? And I was so stunned by it. And only later came to realize through conversation with a couple of folks who were skilled in that assessment. And they were like, yeah, people who are strategic, they do it automatically. And so they're actually often very bad at articulating the strategy or showing A to B to C because it seems so obvious to them that they just mentally make those shortcuts. and then think that they don't like strategy and don't know anything about it. anyway, it's just really interesting how that can kind of work out. like, again, back to this idea of like being seen, and sometimes you can't do it yourself. DeeDee Fisher: Yeah, right. Right. No, and you have to actually be, you know, take a moment to look in the world. Who's been impactful? What have they said to you? How is there a thread? Is there a thread here somewhere? And then follow that, you know, be willing to pull the thread and follow it. Kristen Sweeney: Yeah. Yeah. And can you frame what you're doing in a way that's got different perceived value? And I love that you were able to pull like an engineering model and incorporate that. And I know we're going to get to the CPL framework in more detail later. Before we get there though, I wanted to ask you, I want to pull a little bit on the thread of you talked about the communication to yourself. And this was more in like a health and wellness, maybe context for women. I've got a quote from you that says, all actions start with a communication to ourselves than others. ⁓ I don't know that that is where people think about the starting point. know, lot of the guests we have on the show, Communications is the speech, the article, the LinkedIn post, the media interview. It's the outputs. ⁓ and that personal piece is really not even a part of the conversation. So why does this part matter to you so much? tell us more about how you think about it. DeeDee Fisher: Sure, yeah. I suppose that you cannot take, you know, the years of psychology out of my brain and like, you know, having that as a foundation and really looking at we all as human beings have the voice inside our head that says something, even if we think that it's not happening, right? Like we're talking to ourselves 24 seven. ⁓ I'm hungry. That's you talking to yourself. ⁓ I need to get gas in my car. That's you talking to yourself, right? Kristen Sweeney: Mm-hmm. DeeDee Fisher: I don't like my boss. I hate these meetings. I don't function well in large groups. Right? It just gets to be this huge snowball. Once you say something to yourself, you then function from it because the very, like as a process, you speak something and then the very next thing is the step you're taking because of it. I need gas. Great. Now you're turning left and going right and you're headed to your local gas station, which you know where it's at. None of that would have happened if you hadn't said to yourself. I need gas, right? So what I think we don't give enough, we don't allow ourselves to believe how much power those words to ourselves direct us, right? So that's why it's so important to me that no thought ever happens. There was ⁓ this really great example during COVID. I did 100 kids and their teachers on Zoom. So all junior high kids. And I was presenting the CPL framework. And afterwards, ⁓ Kristen Sweeney: Mm-hmm. Yeah. DeeDee Fisher: this young lady got up and she said, have a question. She said, so what happens is somebody will say something about me and I feel like it's bullying. And then I believe it. And then I function from there. She's saying, that's what you're saying, right? And I said, yeah, I'm saying you're functioning not only from what they said out loud, but what you say to yourself about what they said. And she was like, okay, she got this big smile on her face. And she said, so if I always just say, That's not true. I don't believe that. That's not a trusted adult saying that about me. I don't need to go see if I need to adjust my behavior. That means I could never be bullied again. And I said, yeah. So for me, like that she got it to where it changed her whole being. Like you could just see the stress relief of like, wow, it's not just what somebody says about me, but it's the power. Kristen Sweeney: Yeah. Mm-hmm. DeeDee Fisher: that I give away in owning in my own brain what was said instead of saying, no, that's not true. That's not true. Kristen Sweeney: Yeah, that's so interesting. it makes me think I'd have already mentioned my kids once here, but something that they say that I am never quite sure how to handle, to be honest, is they'll say like, you know, sissy made me sad, right? Like my mom's making me sad. And I'm like, well, on the one hand, like you're deciding to be sad. And on the other hand, yes, your sister should not have taken your toy. And so I've always tried to navigate that, like, you can decide what your reaction is, but also like, yes, people in the world do have an impact on you and we can acknowledge that too. And it's a very interesting path to kind of walk, you know? Yeah, yeah. DeeDee Fisher: Dance, I like to say it's a dance, right? Because you have to dance with it. You can't, it happened, right? So she took the toy and now the other child feels bad. And then the dance begins. Are you going and taking one of her toys? Or are you saying, why did you do that? It made me feel bad, right? Like that's where the dance starts. Kristen Sweeney: Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah, yeah, you don't want to invalidate their feelings, but you're also like, that reaction's kind of intense for what's happened here. Yeah, yeah, that's fair, that's fair. DeeDee Fisher: Totally, but like it's not just kids. mean, think about it. Like somebody pulls out in front of us in traffic, right? And our very first communication to ourself is that person's a blah, blah, blah, doesn't know what they're doing, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, my daughter started driving a year ago, right? And I'm like, how about they just didn't see you? No, is Occam's razor's theory? Never assume malice where incompetence will do. Kristen Sweeney: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. DeeDee Fisher: And I don't like the incompetence part, but like how about just non-intention? Never assume malice where non-intention is true. And we, this is the big one, we don't know when we say something about ourselves or others which part's true. So how about we just make up something positive that doesn't upset us? Kristen Sweeney: Right. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yes, I've learned similar concepts in like just different kind of, I have a background in yoga, like yoga, meditation, different kind of philosophical ways of being. And it's very much aligned. I've seen these ideas in a lot of, in a number of different traditions. But I love that you're bringing it into a business context, but this idea that once you tell yourself something, it There's not a buffer to be like, do I believe myself or not, right? Unless you very intentionally are aware. And that's that often happens in quiet moments, reflection, meditation, like giving yourself the space to then become aware and observe, ⁓ wow, this is the story I'm telling myself. is this the narrative I want to be buying into and reacting from? Yeah. DeeDee Fisher: Exactly, exactly. And you know, I came up with ⁓ aggravatedly compassionate during a speech. I really kind of like that. You can be, I'm not saying don't be aggravated like your daughter. Don't be not hurt. You can be hurt. But how about, why did she do that? Does she like your toy? Does she feel bad you have it? And she does it like that's where the compassionate piece for other people in ourselves comes in. I'm not saying like, you know, there was a Kristen Sweeney: Hahaha Hmm. Yeah. DeeDee Fisher: poet or an author that said, I think it was Goat that said, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. Right? Yeah, let's not apply that to the current ⁓ global situation, please. Let's not do that. But the point is, it's okay to be a little unreasonable, but how about compassionate with it, right? Kristen Sweeney: Well, there's a lot to unpack there. DeeDee Fisher: my reaction to somebody pulling out in front of me, I've done it. I'm like, wow, that was so unreasonable. Didn't need to honk my horn. Didn't need to flip him off. Whatever I did, right? Like I have no, and then you get up there and it's some old lady who can barely see over the steering wheel and then you feel terrible, right? So. Kristen Sweeney: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And I mean, I certainly have also been the person who accidentally did something and realized like, ⁓ sorry, you know, after the fact. DeeDee Fisher: Right, and how did you feel? Right, you felt bad that they were honking, blaring their horn when you're like, I totally just didn't see you, didn't see the stop sign, whatever, right? Like it wasn't intentional. Yeah. Kristen Sweeney: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't intentional. Yeah, definitely. ⁓ So I want to transition us into really digging into this idea of ⁓ moving beyond the reaction and the CPL framework. So that's our one big idea for today. This is kind of the core of your work right now. So we're, I think, starting to go there a little bit already, but talk to us more about what it means to move beyond the reaction in communication. DeeDee Fisher: Right. Got it. I really didn't see that that's what I was doing as a child is that I was actually just moving beyond like an adult's reaction to something in order to function and get to where I wanted to get. Like I and I have to be honest that this really hit home in 2016 when my husband was he worked for Clinton and he was on Hillary's team and Trump started Kristen Sweeney: Yeah. DeeDee Fisher: the way he speaks. And I was like, ⁓ yeah, everyone in middle America talks like that. They're all voting for him. Like, it's just like, that's what's gonna happen. And people being in Northern California in a very blue, educated environment, or people are Ivy League educated. And I came from a state where I got a state degree, explaining to them, like, everyone has to stop reacting to him. And they're like, what do you mean? And I'm like, no, no, it's like... If I said the sky was purple, you don't have to pick up and talk to me about that. Right? We could just be like, ⁓ Dee Dee, you're being so silly. It's obviously blue, right? And maybe there's a little purple when the sun is setting and that's gorgeous, right? That's the big reaction. That was my big aha about how my early years really gave me something that I really wanted to give to people. And then I saw that thread all the way back to the girl at junior high, all of this, right? I'm like, wow, it's been there. It's been there the whole way. It's like having Jiminy Cricket on your shoulder, right? It's like, ⁓ he's been there. This little thing has been there saying, you're functioning beyond the reaction. So how that works with the tool is you have to learn what you want to basically pick up and what you don't want to pick up in a communication. Kristen Sweeney: Mm-hmm. Yeah. DeeDee Fisher: And the dance that I call it is how do you be compassionate with yourself? That's the C. How do you commit to a process instead of thinking communication is going to be state my POV and walk away? And then how do you actually really commit lifelong learning to communication? And are there ways of doing that? And the magic, I think, when you watch, say, a journalist be in a communication, Kristen Sweeney: Mm-hmm. DeeDee Fisher: is they get people to talk about, admit things that you would never, you'd be like, that was magic. How did Barbara Walters do that? Like, what just happened? Like that person just answered that question. It's so simple, like being inquisitive and compassionate. Like, wow, that must have been really hard. How did you deal with that? What was the outcome? What do you think about it now? Right, you see how like, even if it's something shocking and it causes an initial reaction in your body, if you commit to these processes, you commit to asking questions, and even using the tool that comes from having a comms degree, who, what, when, where, why, how, that what, how does that work and what happens through it? Kristen Sweeney: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Do you think about going into like kind of entering the framework or a dialogue with a specific goal in mind of what you're trying to achieve or is it really kind of like letting things come and responding if not reacting in the moment? DeeDee Fisher: No, I definitely, when I'm working with a client, definitely think about like, have they told me their desired outcome is after investigating whatever it is, what do I see, you know, being compassionate with maybe what I see that they may not see, what their team may be experiencing that the leader doesn't know they're experiencing. Like I start asking myself those questions strategically before I then give feedback or a pathway forward, you know, Kristen Sweeney: Mm-hmm. DeeDee Fisher: obviously from my point of view of what could happen or what could be possible. But I definitely always ask myself those questions. Kristen Sweeney: What are they trying to achieve? Do you have an example or maybe some even just kind of a sample scenario of what this looks like? Because I'd love to hear more about, I know you work with lot of executives and teams and how this might sort of play out, not just on a personal level, but within that kind of group dynamic. DeeDee Fisher: Yeah, of course. So I was working with Domtar, the paper manufacturer in North Carolina. And I don't think the world doesn't know, I didn't know, they're the largest paper manufacturer right here in our backyard, right? And they've gotten into pulp and they make the paper, they make everything, toilet paper, paper. It's just an incredible industry. And I didn't know, I know about manufacturing, I didn't know about that. I was working with someone, one of the executives who actually started on the plant floor out of like high school college age. Kristen Sweeney: Mm-hmm. DeeDee Fisher: then he gets moved up into the C-suite, right? And the way he would talk to the people on the floor would be more of the way I grew up with, you know, in a gas station. This is what needs to be done. And nobody took it personal and they just went and did it. But then when he'd come back and be with his C-suite mates, he's like, he's like, Deedee, it's not working. I'm like, well, yeah, of course it's not working. And so we really broke it down and... he got to a point where A, he could see that he was saying to himself that A, something's wrong, right? So we broke it down to the beginning part was there's something, yeah, there's something wrong with me because I can do this here, but I'm doing it over here and it's not working. Instead of being able to see that the environment changed and who, like asking the question, what's my desired outcome? Like for him, coming from him, what's my desired outcome? He's trying to translate this information to over here. Kristen Sweeney: with him. DeeDee Fisher: two different cultures, two different ways of being, right? Okay, right, what process do I need to be in? And what do both parties need to learn about the other? And how can I be like the middle ground for that as an executive? And once we did that and he could see, ⁓ yeah, because I don't have to answer like how or what or why with the guys on the floor, they just know what I'm talking about. And because he'd done that job, he knew they knew. Kristen Sweeney: Mm-hmm. DeeDee Fisher: And if they started to do it a little bit wrong, he'd catch onto it really quick and just very easily change it. But these guys over here who'd actually like, maybe they just came from MBA school, right? They had never worked on a plant floor, never worked on the equipment. They knew about running the numbers or keeping, you know, the expenditures right. But they didn't know like, why are these things happening? How much downtime is there when a machine breaks? And why does it take so long, right? oh, well, the part has to get here, and we have to put it on, and we have to stop a shift, and that's an eight-hour process. So by just getting him to slow down and seeing those two people as different cultures and how he could be compassionate about both of them, it changed the entire dynamic, and he became more of a bridge of communication. But it still had to start with him. Kristen Sweeney: Hmm. Yeah. Yeah, that's so, I love that. And I love that you use the word translate. That's ⁓ a word I think describes the kind of work we do as well. So we work with lot of executives and experts and we are working in communication, but generally to create those kinds of content assets that come out of it, right? So your emails, your articles, your white papers, your LinkedIn posts, things like that. But there is this really important element of translation and taking someone who's super smart in front of you and saying like either, you know, okay, you're extremely technical, but the people you're trying to talk to know about half as much as you do. Not zero, not zero. They're technical as well, but they don't know it at the level you do. And so we have to take what you know and translate it appropriately through the like the work that we do and through the conversations that we have and that that ability to really understand who you're trying to connect with and what matters to them. I mean, that's like, on the one hand, that's marketing and communications 101. And on the other hand, that's not actually easy. And I love that you bring compassion into it, word that I often use is empathy, which is like, that's not just like, I feel sorry for them or I feel, it's really like understanding what they need, what are their circumstances, what matters to them, where do they need more education? I thought. is interesting in your example that the C-suite might actually need more education in that particular context and maybe reverse of what you'd think or something. So yeah, I just love that it starts, though, with yourself. That's a really different spin on it. DeeDee Fisher: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's working, right? And I don't know exactly, sometimes you don't know exactly where something comes from, but I am always very excited that it's working for people, that they love it, that they can see benefit from slowing down. And I really wanted, I even wanted to understand when I started this, what it was that I was doing, because I knew it didn't fit into comms and it doesn't really fit into psychology, but there's, I'm like, there has to be some middle ground. Kristen Sweeney: Mm-hmm. DeeDee Fisher: And so I went to, because I live in DC, I went to Georgetown and I talked to some of the very published professors and they're like, yeah, it's linguistics. I just called the linguistics department and I'm like, is this it? So I had ⁓ a friend from the high school who has her master's in linguistics and she was reading my LinkedIn page and she's like, isn't your degree in comms? I'm like, yes. And she's like, you know what you're talking about is actually linguistics. And I'm like, really? And so that's where that path started for me to understand that Kristen Sweeney: ⁓ Yeah. DeeDee Fisher: If you think about even the United States, not even like a business, like, you you have the comms people, the PR people, the technical people, like you have all these departments. And if you actually started thinking about the fact that they all speak a different language, right? And that we have to slow down, like one group may not even understand the usage of how they're using one word that is super important in their world, but seems insignificant, you know, for the good. Kristen Sweeney: Yeah. Mm-hmm. DeeDee Fisher: The accountant department. Kristen Sweeney: Yeah. Or some of the acronyms, you know, like often like CSO is this an example of one that I'm always like science or strategy? What are we talking about? know, like just ground me in the right context. Like, ⁓ cause I could assume, but I can't, I can't be sure most of the time. Like it's just, it could be either one based on the folks we're talking to. Yeah. DeeDee Fisher: Right. Yes. Yeah, very interesting. ⁓ I do have a story about a student from ASU about the internal dialogue, if you'll grant me ballot, it works right now. So MBA ⁓ class at Thunderbird in Arizona at ASU, we did the lecture and then she said, okay, I have to talk to you. I have a question. And I said, okay, tell me. She's like, I go into work every day and I'm super frustrated because the project's an Kristen Sweeney: Yeah, I'd love to hear it. DeeDee Fisher: not finished. And so I said, well, tell me what you do. And so she was in tech and she upgraded new software. Right. And I said, so what do you do every day? She's like, I go in and I'm installing the software across the department where it needs to be. Okay. And what will you do when that project's done? She's like, well, I go do the same thing in another department for whatever their needs are. And I said, so basically what I heard you just say is your projects are never finished because when one actually stops, you go do the exact same thing somebody else. And she's like, ⁓ my God. She's like, Didi, that means I would just be frustrated forever all the time because in my mind, I'm saying I'm trying to get it done where if I just transfer the word, I'm in the process, then I won't be frustrated with myself. Like, this was all her internal dialogue that was acting out in frustration with her team, in frustration with the department, in frustration with the software package. Kristen Sweeney: Yeah. DeeDee Fisher: And for her just to take one step back and realize, I'm not trying, like she's not, I really dislike this word. She's actually doing every day her job and in the process of doing it and eventually it will be complete and she'll go run that process somewhere else. just, I always think that story is so impactful. Because she could see it. Kristen Sweeney: Yeah. somewhere else. Yeah. I've had a similar experience actually, it's really resonated with me where I, I don't remember, I was probably working with a coach of some kind and realizing that there was a part in the back of my mind that thought like, one day I will finish the to-do list. I was just realizing I would be dead. know, mean, basically, right? The bills have to keep getting paid. The groceries have to keep getting purchased. The laundry. I was like, I mean, just as you described this idea of that there is this finite endpoint that you're trying to reach that always seems unachievable and realizing actually like it or not, this goes on and on. ⁓ And so you've got to... the one thing you can really change in that, I think, is yourself, right? And your mindset. And to your point about linguistics, the words you're using to describe what you're doing. DeeDee Fisher: Right. Yeah. We just don't, I wish everyone in college would take one linguistics class and the base PR class. Not the, I know we take a speech class so we can talk to each other, but we need the foundations before we get up on stage and like do our three types of speeches, right? Kristen Sweeney: Yeah, yeah. Now tell me a little bit more before we jump off and go into our lightning round. Tell me a little bit more about the L part of the framework. The learning part, yeah. DeeDee Fisher: The learning part. Yeah, so I like to say, and I got this from a meditation teacher, that life's a marathon, not a sprint, right? Like a sprint, it's 100 meters, it's done. But a marathon is very long, and in a running marathon, you know where the end is, but in life, you don't know where the end is. Like the example you just gave, right? The to-do list in life is like a marathon that we don't know where the end is. It's unqualified amount of miles right now. Kristen Sweeney: Mm-hmm. DeeDee Fisher: It could be when we're 50, it could be when we're 65, it could be when we're 100. We don't know where the marathon ends. So the learning part is actually just committing to being interested in learning about the fellow human being and about ourselves when we're in a dialogue with them and when it's important. I'm not saying to do that like at the grocery store every day, but I'm saying in when we're at work. when we're working with our teams, when we're working with our family, not assuming we know everything about these people and actually committing to learning as much as we can to make both of us better human beings. Kristen Sweeney: Yeah, and you really do have to be able to move beyond your own reaction to truly listen and, you know, that idea of like listening versus just waiting to speak again and, yeah. DeeDee Fisher: Right, can miss it? Right? We all do that, I do that. You're thinking, oh, I need to say this, I need to say this. But when you're doing, when your brain, right, when we allow our brains to do that, then we are not learning because we're not listening to what they're saying. And that question that we think is so burning could completely change and be irrelevant if we're committed to the learning process and like, you know, really digging into what they're saying. Kristen Sweeney: Yeah. DeeDee Fisher: Like, wow, this is the most important thing I've ever heard. I never thought about it this way. Kristen Sweeney: It is one of the tricky things about podcasting, actually. It's like sometimes, I mean, I've got my questions, right? But there will be something in that conversation. It's like, do I go back to that thread? Do I kind of like let it go, move on? But if I don't plan anything, there could be some dead air. So it's balance, right? Because I also want to really listen and learn from the folks. it's a little column A, little column B. DeeDee Fisher: Well, I've listened to enough of your podcast and now being with you to know that you're a master at this, of being able to have a list that you'd like to get to, but seeing something where we're varying a little bit. And I listened to you do it with other people and be like, oh, well, I was going to do that, but this is so interesting. Let's do that. Let's talk about this for a minute. Let's see that in doing that, you are learning, you are being present. You are committing to the process of communication for the, for your listeners. Kristen Sweeney: hahahaha Yeah, yeah. DeeDee Fisher: to get the very most of what you think is important from your guest. Kristen Sweeney: Yeah, I appreciate that. I appreciate that. This conversation has been so wonderful, so I want to make sure we have time for our lightning round, which is the last word. Same five questions for every guest, so just go with your gut on these. Are you ready? All right, question one. What's your favorite word to say out loud? DeeDee Fisher: Okay. Okay, I'm ready. Why? Kristen Sweeney: Question two, right on brand. What's a word you know from reading, but you're not quite sure how to pronounce it? DeeDee Fisher: Always xylophone. Kristen Sweeney: ⁓ you did so well! DeeDee Fisher: I hate that word. When you see it spelled, you're like, doesn't, you're not supposed to say it that way. How is that possible? ⁓ Kristen Sweeney: tell you is I was preparing your materials and this is a word I know how to say but I- R U R A L I'm just like rrrr DeeDee Fisher: Try, the word try, I'm trying. Kristen Sweeney: same way. I feel the same way. DeeDee Fisher: Look, Buddha and, ⁓ Yoda was not kidding. There is no try, there's only do, right? Everybody thinks he was being cute and flippant. No, it's real. Kristen Sweeney: sorry, I'm Agreed, agreed. What's a communication practice or principle that's non-negotiable for you? DeeDee Fisher: Honesty. Kristen Sweeney: And what's the last thing you read, heard, or watched that really stuck with you? DeeDee Fisher: ⁓ wow. ⁓ ⁓ on the spot, let's see. There's a line from Winnie the Pooh and this is really funny, but I was reading the Dao of Pooh. How lucky I am to have something that saying goodbye is so hard. Kristen Sweeney: Great. The end of... we have the the tails of Winnie the Pooh and I mean by the end my husband and I both are like weeping if we if we get it get to it. We'd rather just like end early because it's it's a lot. That's really nice. Yeah, it's lovely. Dee Dee, thank you so much for joining us today. If our guests want to learn or excuse me if our listeners want to learn more about you what are the best places where they can find you? DeeDee Fisher: It's a lot. So amazing, right? LinkedIn is the best place. You can find me on TikTok and Instagram and a little bit of Facebook, but mostly on LinkedIn. I post everything there and then ⁓ my web is from there. I use LinkedIn as my top, my funnel. Kristen Sweeney: Perfect, perfect. And we'll include a link to your profile on the show notes as well so our listeners and watchers can connect. DeeDee Fisher: Thank you so much, it's so fun to be with you. Kristen Sweeney: ⁓ this was wonderful. Really appreciate it. Thank you. DeeDee Fisher: Thank you.